₦airaland Forum

ogugua88: [size=13pt]I heard they'll be showing old episodes on Thursdays in black and white. I'm down [/size]

I'm not sure what the appeal of watching the show in black and white is supposed to be, but I'll check out a few of those episodes and see what the point of it is.

The mid-season premiere was good, although not amazing or anything. I am interested in where they're going to go with this angle about Rick losing his sanity though. I'm also looking forward to seeing what happens to the Darryl and Merle team. I don't think a group of only two people can really make it out alive in a zombie apocalypse, so I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the death of both characters by the end of this season.

I can't claim any expertise on the Haitian revolution, but it looks to me like religion might have been one of the most important factors behind the uprising, so I don't think it's importance should be minimized. Probably, if they had all accepted Christianity, there might not even have been a revolution.

Both Nigerian groups mentioned in this thread were involved in and significant to the Haitian revolution. One of these groups is commonly referred to as Ibo in written sources and the other is referred to as Nago. And (African) religion was also a very significant factor in the first phases of the Haitian revolution.

tpia@:
are you saying civil war was what caused the mass migration observed during that time and recorded by europeans?

For the 17th century, yes.

For the 16th century, I would need to see the actual quote(s), but yes it's very likely the cause in that century as well, because of the Benin vs. Udo conflicts, which were essentially due to a succession dispute that grew into a war.

^^^
There's an article which even discusses some of the relevant quotes from European explorers about 17th century migrations out of Benin that has already been published. In fact, I've referenced the article on this forum before. It's called "Civil War in the Kingdom of Benin, 1689-1721: Continuity or Political Change?" and it's by Paula Ben-Amos Girshick and John K. Thornton.

The issue has been examined by scholars interested in the issue. Comments like Abagworo's are precisely the point of my comment above. It's not necessary to throw up blind guesses about issues relating to certain aspects of the history of a place, subtly or overtly tweaked as these "guesses" are toward certain ethnic agendas, when more serious researchers have already given a real and dispassionate analysis of the issue. It gives the impression to more naive readers that everything is unknown and everything is so mysterious that any claim or guess can be put forward after only the most minimal effort when this simply isn't the case.

Rossike/Rossikk,

I'll say something just as a bit of advice - and I'm not saying this to start a nasty argument or really personally go after you - but just as some advice. I don't know if you'll read it, but it's very general advice anyway, so even if you don't read it, someone else might read it and take something away from it:

I personally detest any kind of self-hatred and self-loathing, and I see that you appear to dislike racial self-hatred from the way you go after self-hating Africans especially on historical issues on which you disagree with their perspectives and claims, but there is more than one type of self hate or self loathing. For example, there are some men who denigrate maleness in modern times out of a sense of shame for the bad things done to women or against humanity in general by many other men in no way connected to them. And there are some women who denigrate or undervalue females just out of a desire to fit in with or be acceptable to some men who hold those kinds of views on women. And there are also people who are brought up in certain cultures but end up projecting their loathing of those cultures out to the world in books, art, movies etc. because the outside world has impressed upon them that those cultures are worthless or inferior.

And then there is ethnic self-hate - it is a subset of racial self-hate and is not a trivial thing, and I think you have some form of it. Now, engaging in some criticism of one's people or criticizing some excessively positive statements about one's people, even in an environment like NL where any discussion relating to ethnicity can quickly turn ugly, is not necessarily evidence of self hate.

But criticizing your own ethnic group or positive statements about your ethnic group so aggressively and even with coarse language in the course of making your criticisms as you have definitely done in some instances in the past, is not healthy or reasonable behavior. It may also be evidence of some kind of latent self-loathing. This aspect of your posting is probably what some posters from your own ethnic group noticed and found repulsive or objectionable, and in the future, you should probably avoid that kind of approach if you don't want to be constantly attacked by them.

Abagworo: I think the ancient Benin had Igbos in it. Though we've not been able to gain any evidence, I believe the Igbo language found in Igbanke is enough evidence and again the claim of Benin descent by a sizeable population of Igbos with their progenitors having Igbo names and titles. Igbos are not alone in this as Ijaws are also involved. The ancient Benin very likely had Edos as administrators, Ijaws as sailors and Igbos as farmers and service providers. I also believe they all kept their languages and spoke Edo as a second language. Something must have happened towards the end of last millenium that lead to a mass movement of people away from a previously larger Benin and moving across the Niger.

This is a nice try, but Benin's past is not some blank slate or perpetually gray area.

There were a few outside elements, of varying degrees of significance to the culture and society, as with almost anywhere else in Nigeria, but never anything like what some of you guys try to make it out to be in your various claims and conjectures. Thinking that the history and reality of the kingdom is unwritten or unknown and just stating anything is easy when one hasn't bothered to do any real investigation into the matter. Anyway, a lot of Benin soldiers, traders and adventurers ventured out in different directions and spread out and influenced different groups (some Igbos included), even going to faraway places outside of modern Nigeria.

The U.S. is not afraid of Iran. Israel on the other hand is very very afraid of Iran, and probably with good reason. The Israel lobby in the U.S. currently controls the middle eastern aspect of U.S. foreign policy. This control reached its pinnacle under the Bush administration when Jewish American neoconservative supporters of Israel and some of their close associates hugely led the "intellectual" justification for and the propaganda used in leading the U.S. into war in Iraq. By subjugating one of Israel's biggest future military threats (Iraq) and putting it under the guidance of the U.S. (instead of leaving it under the control of an Iraqi dictator hostile to Israel), with the possibility that Iraq could be split along religious and ethnic lines (such as an independent Kurdish state and/or a Sunni/Shiite division of the country) into smaller and militarily weaker states, Iraq would be less of a threat to Israel's existence. This latter possibility - of cutting Iraq up into smaller countries - was not realized, but the goal of neutralizing the threat of Iraq to Israel for a significant period of time and for much of the foreseeable immediate future has definitely been achieved - although at the cost of very many lives.

The Israel lobby that currently controls U.S. foreign policy in the middle east probably exercises this control by constantly referencing or alluding to the very real threat to the existence of a Jewish state in the middle east. U.S. policymakers go along with their whims out of fear that if Israel is not supported directly (defense assistance, financial aid, etc.) and indirectly (the Iraq war), the hostile Arab and Muslim elements around Israel in the middle east really will wipe out the Jews in the middle east - a second Holocaust. U.S. congressmen and women in any modern government feel that if they stop supporting Israel to the extent that they do and the worst thing imaginable really does happen, then the U.S. will be in some way guilty, since America has the military and financial muscle to prevent such a terrible event from happening. The ongoing confirmation battle for Chuck Hagel to become defense secretary in Obama's second term and the political and media assault against Hagel shows that the fear of Iran is really rooted in fear about the safety of Israel, not the U.S.

It's good that you (Rossike/Rossikk) specifically re-posted this old and amateurish article. It's so full of inaccuracies, misinterpretations and distortions regarding the Edo (Bini), that one could simply reference this thread anytime someone else is dumb enough to claim that you're Edo just because you tend to mention Benin (among other African kingdoms) in your "pan African" posts. Any rational person would simply ask, what self respecting or even mildly knowledgeable Edo person would accept or propagate that moronic claim about Edo descent from the Itsekiri? None dead, living, or yet to be born. And strangely enough, you posted this exact same article several months ago, yet some people were still saying you were Edo even recently.

If you are Yoruba you can simply just come out and say it as I don't see what the point of hiding your identity would really be but if you are indeed Igbo as you have stated on here multiple times and as a few of your posts seem to confirm, then I respectfully have to ask that you let your ethnic brothers know that you're not Edo the next time you decide to go on any kind of anti-Igbo rant or make derogatory comments about your people and some of them decide to interpret your statements as those of an Edo poster.

₱®ÌИСΞ:
As in ehh....lool...remain small hair sha...so we fit knw sey na u...in case u get bitten hehe

Btw hav u rilly wondered y rich chose to ride a horse in dat scene in season 1? Till today it baffles me sha

I think it made some sense. If his aim was to go as far as possible without needing to scavenge for fuel, and to be able to go almost anywhere, instead of just to places accessible by roads (roads that were not zombie infested), then a horse would be better.

A car, truck, etc. in addition to being a faster mode of transportation, does give him protection from the weather and a degree of protection from zombies (somewhere to hide), and if he had found any surviving family members, close relatives, or friends immediately after setting out, he would have been able to transport them around with him - something which he couldn't have done on a horse. But ultimately, those vehicles are dependent on gas - he would therefore need to start scavenging gas stations and other cars looking for fuel before and during his journey instead of proceeding immediately ahead with the journey.

However, all that the horse needs is food (readily available from any grass anywhere), and occasional water and rest.

Of course, none of this kind of thinking might have gone into why they had him riding a horse. The writers and producers could have just put the horse in there for the cowboy element, as you suggested.

oily Yoruba: You're a shameless liar and a pig. You never lived in any US of A, rather you were stuck in Italo pimping your Edo sistas in prost**tion. Shameless Edo batty man.

I know you're just a troll, but I have to point out that Rossike is not Edo, so leave the Edo out of your dumb beef with him. I don't know what his (non-Edo) ethnicity is, but looking through his post history, he's way too concerned with the Igbo/Yoruba stuff to be Edo - he even started a thread on how Igbo and Yoruba used to be one language thousands of years ago. It might not have dawned on you, but being proud of or an online defender of a historic African kingdom for its significance in African history, especially as an outspoken pan-African (as Rossike seems to be), does not require ethnic affiliation with the people of that kingdom.

Negro_Ntns: it is very well possible that edo/bini people use the one identifier "edo" for itself,

It's not just possible, it's how it is.

but historically and culturally, lagos royalty does not recognise an edo beginning for itself at all. it will be wrong to call lagos royalty edo, it is not...linguistically, culturally or customarily.

Ok. I don't think anyone calls Lagos royalty Edo or Bini anyway, so I don't think this is a problem.

Great post Ìyániwúrà123, however there is one small error in the part on Borno. "Bariba" and "Baruba" are terms that have historically been used to refer to the peoples of Borgu, a completely different group from the Kanuri of Bornu/Borno.

Bini is just an exonym for the Edo, not a reference to a separate group, and the use of that exonym has persisted because it is useful or convenient in distinguishing the people of the core of the Benin kingdom from other nearby groups that speak closely related languages. It is especially convenient in modern times now that those closely related groups are often referred to as being Edo people as well. For a similar case, the Ijaws used to call the Itsekiri people the Selemo or Iselema, but that doesn't mean that Selemo or Iselema is the "true" name of the Itsekiri nor does it mean that there is some non-Itsekiri group within the Itsekiri population that Selemo or Iselema refers to.

Bini is just derived from (is an altered form of) the name for the kingdom, so people from there were/are called Bini. Imagine if it was claimed that, since the Nupe called the Kanuri people the Bino in the past, after their kingdom, Bornu/Borno, there was really some ethnicity, language or culture within Kanuri called Bino that was distinct from Kanuri. This would be false, and clearly there was no such "Bino" people or language that was distinct from Kanuri just because the Nupe people called the Kanuri by the exonym "Bino".

There is not some confusion about the fact that Bini and Edo refer to one and the same people.

Negro_Ntns: all the kings from guobaro to dosumu were given bini names. they in turn gave their own sons bini names. the closeness in yoruba/bini language and culture makes it hard to discriminate the names.

Closeness in some aspects of culture between linguistically distinct groups isn't going to mean the names are going to be indistinguishable though, even if there is some overlap or some names that are hard to ascribe definitively to one group alone.

alj harem: No, I met administrative language at the palace of the Oba in benin city was yoruba until 1934 which is very recent.

I think you're basing this statement on Peter Cutt Lloyd's statement about Yoruba, Itsekiri and Benin that was cited in that Toru Ibe Ijaw chiefs press release. There are a whole slew of errors in that press release, and since I intend to comment on that press release in detail, it's taking a bit longer to finish a reply to it, especially with other things I have to do, but I can comment on this particular claim outside of that thread since you're bringing it up. A dynasty having a Yoruba source, or any other outside source - whether Igala or Nupe or Ijaw or anything else that is claimed - would not mean that the administrative language of the palace of that dynasty would be in that outside language when there was a preexisting political structure and organization there to begin with that would have accommodated and brought the new outside element into the majority culture and language. This simple idea seems to elude some people, for whatever reason.

The "language of the Benin palace was Yoruba" stuff such as cited in that Toru Ibe Ijaw chiefs' press release makes no sense. Look at the actual titles of the palace officials of Benin like the officials in the Iwebo, Ibiwe societies, etc. Look at even the references in the old foreign historical documents on Benin to actual title holders like the Uwangue, Eribo, etc. When you find anything other than "Oba" that is Yoruba derived, let me know. It's strange that on this issue anyone could cite Lloyd, who is an expert on no ethnic group in Nigeria other than Yoruba - that is, his knowledge about non-Yoruboid groups is going to be limited - but not bother to look at any of the traditions of the other people actually discussed or any of the documents.

And Lloyd's quote does not make sense anyway. The name of Itselu in the Itsekiri kingdom is of Edo origin (from Uselu in Benin) and the titles used by the most important officials of the Itsekiri kingdom are of clear Edo origin (like Iyase, Uwangue, Imaran, Eson, Osula, Ero, etc.) and even "Ogiame" (lord of water), the honorific of the Olu, is in the Edo language. Yoruba linguistic and cultural features are dominant among the Itsekiri for the simple and obvious fact that the contribution of the Yoruba groups to forming the actual general population of the Itsekiri people was much greater than the other contributions from groups like Bini, Urhobo, Igala etc., but there is no reason to mix things up or reach conclusions that don't have any basis.

And also consider the title of Edaiken - the heir apparent to the Benin throne - that was created by Oba Ewuare. It is a contraction of Edayi n'Iken. Iken was a famous war leader of Benin in Oba Ewuare's time. Now Oba Ewuare and Iken, a hereditary war commander from Uselu, did not get along so Oba Ewuare sent him off to war to remove him from the kingdom (with the possibility that he might die in battle, of course - and he did). Edaiken was made the title of the crown prince because in Iken's absence (after he went to war) the crown prince took his place and acted as his substitute, taking up residence in Uselu. Edayi here basically means regent (one who acts in place of the original holder of that position). Now an edayi has a clear role even in the traditional village life of the Edo, such as acting in funeral rites: a close family member would have to stand in (act as a substitute, an edayi) for a minor in certain funeral rites if that son is very young when his father dies. An edayi is a general Edo term for a stand-in or substitute, not even a term used exclusively for that royal title (Edayi n'Iken). Does the title (Edaiken) have a meaning in Yoruba? Or did Oba Ewuare forget to use Yoruba for his administrative duties when he made that title?

Incidentally, in the kingdom of Owo, the title took the form Idaniken, a Yoruba pronunciation of the original Edaiken title. This is just one of the titles that Owo shared with Benin.

Now I certainly don't claim to be an expert on the history and culture even of my own group (few people are complete experts on all historical and cultural aspects of their people, after all), but I know enough to know that this particular claim (made by Lloyd, and repeated in a different form by the current Ooni of Ife) about the "administrative" language of the Benin palace has nothing going for it.

Lost the book, but I would look for it for you. You can also do the research yourself but it is in history

And the name of the book is?

I think the quote you were really thinking of was a mention of some officials/diplomats from Oyo that visited Benin in the 1700s who were described as being sent there on "political business." That is an actual verifiable quote from a foreign writer. What you're talking about sounds like it was someone's deliberate attempt to transform the 1700s Oyo and Benin quote into something else entirely. But like I said, anyone who is familiar with the concept of an interpreter in ancient kingdoms that carried out lots of trade would not be surprised by this. In Benin it was the ozedu (interpreter) of the Iwebo palace society that had this function. I'm sure other groups in Nigeria had their own equivalents.

Hmmmmm I doubt that they still think they are bini rather majority of them (now aworis) think Binis and yorubas are one and the same. Reason for me talking like this is because I spoke with an elderly man from one of the families which the Oba of benin sent back then to lagos.

I didn't say anyone there thinks they are Bini. I was saying that the first three rulers had names that were Edo.

Negro_Ntns: Akinsemoyin, Eshilokun, Idewu, Akitoye, Dosumu, Akiolu....these are all bini names. Long after Ado the bini names continued

I don't think this is correct. It's hard to think of what Bini names these could be changed versions of, although the possibility can't be ruled out.

Negro_Ntns: physics,

the Ado here is not the Edo you are talking about. The Ado meant here is in the name and not in the ethnicity. Aisikpa and Guobaro is correct.

The Edo I was referring to there was a name.

alj harem: You see back in those days apart from the Bini language, the language used in the palace then for administration was Yoruba (particularly the Ijebu dialect) unlike now so it was easy for families to intermix with the people.

You're talking about the administrative language of the Lagos palace, clearly.

Even when the whites first visited Nigeria, they saw some Ijebus heading for Bini city and asked where they were going. It is on record they said "We are going to see the Oba of bini for political issues".

And the source of this quote is?

Ever heard of an interpreter? Kingdoms that carried out significant trade with other groups had them in the past.

alj harem: All Ado children have Yoruba names as well showing the adminstrative language was Yoruba

The names are Aisikpa (Ashipa) and Edo (Ado), followed by Guobaro (Gabaro). The names changed a bit over time in Lagos, but they're still close to the Edo originals.

Pleep, have you ever thought of Pulp Fiction as a "white supremacist" movie? That might seem like a bizarre question, but I came across something that makes that claim.

I was thinking about what you said about Tarantino having some racial issues, and I was searching around a few hours ago and I came across two things:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=229337

http://racism-notes..com/2009/05/pulp-fiction-gooks-slopes-niggers-jules.html

The first site is just a discussion on some forum among what seems like mostly white posters on Tarantino and the n word. A few of the comments are interesting.

The second site is a blog devoted to exposing subtle or overt white supremacist ideas and/or behavior. I've come across it before, but just read a few things and moved on - some of his entries are interesting and I agree with some of them, but sometimes it seems like he's reaching. Anyway, it has a brief entry on Tarantino and Pulp Fiction. The blog claims Pulp Fiction is a subliminally white supremacist movie. It seems like the guy is reading a bit too much into the (crazy) storyline and dialogue and ignoring some aspects of the movie that wouldn't sit well with a real white supremacist, but I wonder if he's right to some extent and there's something deeper that he's seeing that I missed both times I watched it. As a self-described "racism expert" what's your verdict on this idea of Pulp Fiction as a subtly white supremacist movie?

Disappointing. I would have liked for Murray to win another one. Maybe the injury was what did Murray in, or maybe Djokovic was just the better player this time around.

all4naija: @PhysicsQED

I enjoy science fiction, horror, epic,etc movies. I haven't seen more than two of those movies. I think I am a young movies enthusiast when compared to you. I will try and check them out on the market. I don't enjoy very old movies though.

It's not like I'm really that much of movie enthusiast or anything, it's just that I happen to really like that film genre (crime/mobster/gangster/etc. films). If you asked me about what I thought the best sports movies were, or the best biographical movies, or the best historical movies, I would be clueless, because I haven't really seen that many movies in those genres. But I also like science fiction and horror movies and I've seen my fair share of good movies in those genres as well.

On Reservoir Dogs being a masterpiece, I don't really think so, but I know that there are a lot of people that would disagree with my opinion.

Reservoir Dogs is just okay to me. I wasn't amazed by it or anything, but I guess that's just me. People are of course, going to have different tastes - for example, I thought Inglourious Basterds was really great and you hated it, so obviously there are different things that appeal to us even in movies by the same director.

If you want to watch some really good crime based movies, I recommend the following:

1. Miller's Crossing - this is definitely a masterpiece. Still one of my favorite movies ever.
2. City of God
3. The Usual Suspects
4. Donnie Brasco
5. Blood Simple
6. Heat (with Pacino and De Niro)
7. Once Upon a Time in America
8. Road to Perdition
9. Snatch
10. Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
11. Clockers
12. Inside Man
13. The Departed
14. Public Enemies
15. The Untouchables
16. Carlito's Way
17. Casino
18. Touch of Evil (this is old and in black and white, but it's still great)
19. Fargo
20. Fresh
21. Dead Presidents
22. Blow
23. Eastern Promises
24. No Country for Old Men
25. Get Carter

And of course better known classics like Scarface, the Godfather movies, and Goodfellas I would put somewhere on my list as well.

I'm not saying all of the movies on that list above are better than Reservoir Dogs, but most of them are, in my opinion. In fact, maybe it's because I had already seen so many great crime based movies that I wasn't that impressed with Reservoir Dogs.

(edited)

Plarp: I saw it yesterday and thought it was an absolute masterpiece, it completely changed the way i look at Quinten Tarantino. The guys a genious. That has got to be one the best, most realistic crime movies ive ever seen.

But what struck me was the insane amount of times he used the word 'nigger' ... litterally 20 times in a movie that only had 1 black character wtf!? The characters were making fun of black people thoughout the entire movie, for absolutely no reason. " You've got you a$$ so pumped full of nigger s.emen in prison that its gotten into your brain and now its comming out of your mouth" hilarious as always, but still....

The dude obviously has some racial issues, i wasn't sure before but i'm positive now.

From watching all of Tarantino's films one thing I had previously thought about those kinds of scenes was that maybe he makes the villains racist or makes the bad guys look racist to highlight or draw attention to the racism so that it makes them unlikeable, and so that we don't sympathize with them too much if something bad happens to them or they get killed off. But looking back on it now I think that that's not really the motivation and there's a different motivation for most of those kind of scenes - realism. Depicting characters that are bad people - whether criminals or bigots - or people who just don't care about saying offensive things (when talking among themselves) as they are instead of making them "politically correct".

In Reservoir Dogs their racially insensitive statements make them look like they are people who flout society's conventions, which is fitting because they are on the margins of society - they're criminals, after all, and they are neither sensitive about what they say about other people nor are they "proper" in their behavior and outlook. Basically, they don't give a damn because they're gangsters (except for the undercover cop, but he has to act like them to fit in), and gangsters aren't usually politically correct and don't care about race relations, etc. They just say whatever they feel, even if it's offensive - if you watch Goodfellas or watch some episodes of the Sopranos it becomes pretty obvious that the racist statements of some of the characters are in there for realism too, so depicting gangsters or other (morally) bad characters as racist isn't just limited to Tarantino.

Now in the beginning of Reservoir Dogs, when they're having that discussion about tips, one of the guys says something like "even a Jew wouldn't refuse to give that tip" (a $1 tip, if I recall), and it doesn't feel like an out of place comment, because the viewer knows that (non-Jewish) gangsters aren't going to give a damn about anti-semitism or not being in the good graces of the ADL - they're just going to say what they feel and talk sh1t and if they happen to repeat a few stereotypes along the way, so be it. Yet we (the viewers) know or are supposed to know, that Tarantino obviously doesn't have any problem with Jews - in fact, Harvey Keitel (one of the stars of the film) is Jewish, and I think there were some other Jewish people involved in casting or some other aspects of the film - but as a filmmaker he would leave that character's offensive comment implying that Jews are cheap and stingy in there just for the realism. Similarly in Pulp Fiction, the use of "gooks" as a slur for Asians by some of the characters is obviously not there because Tarantino has some kind of problem with Asians - in fact it's clear from his later work that he's a fan of some Asian cultures (Chinese and Japanese) or some aspects of those cultures. The characters in that movie use the word "gook" because they're not the kind of people who in real life would care about whether or not they offend Asians. They would just say that stuff regardless.

I came across two critical and somewhat negative reviews in the online New Yorker that offer interesting analyses of the movie, and which may explain why it was uncomfortable to watch at times:

www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/01/django-unchained-reviewed-tarantinos-crap-masterpiece.html

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/01/how-accurate-is-quentin-tarantinos-portrayal-of-slavery-in-django-unchained.html

Both articles offer an interesting take on some aspects of the movie that weren't obvious to me after seeing it. However, the article by Denby states that there were no slave fights organized by plantation owners in the south, which is definitely false. As someone pointed out in the comments section, the life of Tom Molineaux (a black bare-knuckle boxer who was a former slave) proves that such things did happen. Anyway, although I still like the movie, I do understand a bit better now why some people might dislike it.

Plarp: Has anyone here seen reservior dogs?

Yeah I've seen it. A very overrated film. Not one of his best, although a lot of people seem to think it is.

Nri Priest

Even if Nri was not in the business of selling slaves to outsiders, it seems they either bought them or acquired them in some other way. M.D.W. Jeffreys was informed about a Nri practice in the past in which a slave was sacrificed at a coronation ceremony when he visited in the 1930s. It seems that, having no contact with Europeans until colonial times, Nri was not directly involved in the transatlantic slave trade. But on the issue of having slaves, even if one ignores what Jeffreys wrote (assuming that he was misinformed), one of the foundational Nri myths/legends involved the sacrifice of a male slave and a female slave by the first Eze Nri. Why would that story about the founder of the kingdom have been repeated and preserved if such things were viewed as an abomination?

Your response seemed to involve a bit more than just disagreeing with his statement though and that's why I commented as I did. Regarding Starflux's comment, it seems true that Benin didn't sell their own people or keep their own people as slaves, from available written evidence (from Nyendael, Landolphe, and other sources which comment specifically on this) from foreigners and from Edo tradition, but I think the statement that Benin didn't sell those captured in war to Europeans is indeed not completely accurate since it did happen for brief periods, before they restricted such sales and then let such trade fall off completely.

Blyss: Well actually the Benin Kingdom was a notorious source of slaves for the Europeans. It wasn't till the Atlantic Slave trade that the Kingdom actually obtained it's most substantial level of wealth and power with in it's whole 1000 year history.

Benin was already making frequent war on its neighbors when the Europeans showed up. That's what they (the European writers) said. How can they have been making war on their neighbors without any substantial "wealth and power"?

Also, archeological finds (some of the art work) at Owo from the 15th century show that Benin's influence had already spread northward before European contact, confirming the traditions recorded about Oba Ewuare's expansion of Benin's power in his time.

In addition, the kingdom restricted its sale of slaves in the early 16th century (early 1500s) heavily after only a few decades of contact with the Portuguese, after which point the kingdom ceased to be a significant source of slaves. The slave trade was not significant at any time afterward, and throughout the kingdom's history it was never a really major factor as there was lots of other trade (in cloth, pepper, ivory, palm oil etc.) that was carried on with neighboring groups and with Europeans. Even the plan of a French trader, a certain captain Landolphe, to buy 3000 slaves a year from the Benin and Itsekiri areas in the late 1700s, completely fell apart and was never realized - even though it could easily have been during that period (when Benin was not in decline, and was actually doing better) if Benin was so interested in the slave trade at that point. See the article "The Slave Trade, Depopulation and Human Sacrifice in Benin History" by James Graham for an overview of Benin's minor involvement with the African-European slave trade over the course of its history.

And the claim about keeping large amounts of slaves within Benin and refusing to sell them also comes from European visitors who made that observation. I doubt that that practice could have applied to all people within Benin at all times, but you should know that it is a statement that was confirmed by actual witnesses from those times.