₦airaland Forum

pleep: I'm not saying molestation is in their nature, im saying extreamly high libido is.

If they have extremely high libido, but the s3xual assault epidemic only broke out in their society after their (natural) societal norms broke down and certain anti-social behaviors became more prevalent, then doesn't that mean that the biggest problem isn't their libido, but the inability of their modern societies to regulate it or keep it in check using whatever methods they may have used in the past (polygamy, close-knit extended families, arranged marriages, etc. or whatever else they may have done) or some new, modern social defenses against anti-social behavior?

However if the s3xual assault epidemic was somehow widespread in their societies (southern African societies) even in the distant and recent past (something for which I have seen no evidence and which I find improbable), then maybe I would agree that a higher libido is the real problem with their societies.

pleep: There is overwheliming evidence of this, it has been known since ancient times. That is why i put that quote in the title post... to show that people have been remarking on black peoples intimate over-indulgence for hundreds of years. Now, with modernization black peoples behavior is proving them correct.

That quote was about what "is said" by Arabs about black slaves. Apart from the fact that the Arab author was just writing about what other Arabs say about black slaves, there is another issue: if you were a male slave with no education, no goals or ambition, no wealth, no real purpose in life, no religion to dedicate yourself to (real Muslims did not keep other Muslims as slaves, whether black or white or Arab), no culture or larger society to seriously take part in, etc. and basically nothing going on in your life, what else would you do other than sleep with the female slaves? I don't see how one can be faulted for "fornicating" when there is basically nothing else to do after one's hunger or thirst has been sated. What else were they supposed to be doing? When a human being is reduced to the lowest possible lifestyle, is that person supposed to have the highest and most noble behaviors, actions, and desires?

And the bit about stealing when hungry, apart from being unrelated to this topic, is just dumb and it shows that the people who were saying those things in that writer's lifetime were dumb. If you're not getting paid for the work you do and you have no money to buy anything with and don't have your own land for agriculture and also have nothing to trade, then of course you're going to steal when you start to get hungry and begging isn't enough to get you by. That's obvious.


As for the AIDS issue, I do admit that there is a significant connection between promiscuity and AIDS. I am not denying that. I am just extremely skeptical of the idea that the 20th century is the only time in history when s3xual promiscuity could have been a problem in Africa or in the wider world.

Regarding the chart of AIDS rate by state in Nigeria, if you look at the chart closely, you'll see that there is no consistent pattern between the religion in a state and the AIDS rate. There could be a connection between the amount of prost1tution and/or infidelity in a state (regardless of religion) and the AIDS rate, but I'm skeptical of the prost1tution explanation of AIDS as well. I don't see how "the world's oldest profession" (prost1tution) could have been absent from all of Africa prior to the 20th century. I don't think the problem lies in a group's libidos or hormones. And the other STDs that people in other parts of the world, outside of Africa, were getting prior to the 20th century and are still getting today in the 21st, suggests to me that promiscuity alone isn't the issue as far as black people are concerned. The issue probably has more to do with the unique biological profiles of different populations (within and outside of Africa) making them more or less susceptible to infection.

I didn't say that he was speaking for or representing any group or that he was expressing the majority opinion of those groups. In fact my comment made it clear that it only took one person from one of those groups saying something like that for a series of insults to follow.

chukxie: Hey! You asked a very nice question. I speak not as a historian but as a layman who understands the community he came from. So pardon any inaccuracies you might find in my response to your intelligent question. Ekpon people are a very interesting mix. The reason is because of our geographical location. We are right at the boundary of the Ika speaking Igbanke and Olijie communities on one hand and Esan speaking communities of Ewosa and Ewokhimi on the other hand. By virtue of our strategic location, our culture and language have been greatly influenced over God knows how many years by our neighbours. A lot of people especially old people in Ekpon are bilingual --they speak fluent Esan and Ekpon (a derivative of Agbor language ). So, to answer your question, a lot of Ekpon people view themselves first and foremost as an integral part of Esan Kingdom and by geographical location, a part of Ika Kingdom.

Thanks for this response. It was very informative and definitely answered my question.

pazienza: Just saw this one now.

I somehow believe that without the coming of the white man,a militant igbo tribe would have risen and united the whole igbo speaking people,aro,abam and ohafia people had that potential. Bini influence over western igbo was already waning before the coming of the whites.

Agbontae and sony are unknown entities in an anonymous forum,for all i care they may not even be from from ika.
In the real life,the obi of Owa as of descendant of Odogwu,an nri son,had long upheld his and Owa's nri ancestry,while acknowledging Ofien(the bini loser) and his descendants presence in Owa,as minorities, a vocal minority for that matter,as we can see from agbontaen's lamentations here.

Nri never claimed Owa,Owa claimed nri,which is as it should be. That's what matters most.

I gave an honest assessment of the statement of yours that I quoted. I think there's an element of thankfulness for the creation of the Nigerian colony by the British in that statement.

As for a militant group uniting the larger cultural/linguistic group, which you "somehow believe" would have happened, there's little reason to get into discussing hypothetical scenarios of what would have or could have happened here or there since what did happen already happened and since Igbos had a long time prior to colonization during which they could have been united by a militant group. And all around the world, there are many linguistic/cultural groups that were not politically united, so the fact that it didn't happen in Igboland is not that unusual.

Regarding Owa, I don't know the specifics of what the Benin influence is there, but it seems that it is substantial and was even more so in the past. If Bini influence was waning in western Igboland prior to colonization, fine, I don't necessarily disagree with that, but we both agree that it was there.

I read the first book and I thought it was pretty good. I might get around to reading the other books by the summer.

Then after I'm done reading the whole song of ice and fire series, I'll probably start watching the show on couchtuner or maybe download or buy it.

The written works that shows or movies are based on are pretty much always better than the shows or movies themselves so I wouldn't want to spoil the story with the show before reading the books, although I think The Walking Dead is an exception.

^

Alright, I understand. But I really don't have any control over how others choose to respond to insults.

pazienza: I would like to see your evidence against emegwali's IQ. While you are at it,i would like you to give me bini's equivalent of Okonjo Iweala.

Do you understand the concept of the "burden of proof"? Do you know where it lies in this case?

If you claim Emeagwali has the IQ claimed in those funny articles (190, I think) or the highest IQ among all black people, all you need to do is provide some actual evidence. It's not enough to just say so and post a link to some brief article which also just says so, without providing any supporting evidence either.

On Okonjo Iweala, I respect her achievements and never claimed there was anybody in her specific area that was matched by a Bini person. But this was part of my point a few posts earlier - he was picking what areas to make comparisons in and asking me to match them, and yet in the vast majority of those cases I was able to either match them or put forward somebody more impressive, even though I wasn't the one getting to pick the area to make comparisons in. If I was to pick my own areas to make comparisons in when I was arguing in this thread back then I would have asked him to match Hakeem Belo-Osagie, Osagie Imasogie, Claire Ighodaro in their exact areas and waited for him to do so - if I was the one that really wanted to do the comparison game. But in any instance where he was either matched or bested in an area that he brought up he just evaded or denied and moved on to new claims and boasts, sometimes contradicting himself while doing so (as with the example he gave about Mr. Maduka and the Nigerian Society of Engineers) or putting forward funny and baseless claims (such as the Nobel prize nominated stuff he read in a newspaper). I would hardly call that giving me a "run for my money."

Afam4eva: Everyone has now become a tribalist. SMH

You do realize that several Yoruba posters in the politics section are convinced that you've been an anti-Yoruba tribalist on this forum for a while? Is this an accurate perception of you?

pazienza: Every one knows that the efiks,ibibios and annangs are one and same people that doesn't just have a collective name. Ijaw tribes had long united under ijaw banner, the igbo groups of south south are still disjointed. So,there you have it. Bini is a minority amongst minorities and should have no temerity denigrating at the great igbo nation.

Did you actually understand what he was saying?

He was pointing out the population difference. If you were to add the Igbos in Rivers state to those of Delta and to those of Igbos anywhere else in the "South South" you would get a population significantly larger than the population of the Bini. In the case of the Efiks, Ibibios and Annangs, the same thing would apply. Therefore problems would emerge with making a direct one to one comparison between these amalgamated populations and the Bini alone, regardless of what issue one wants to make comparisons about.

pazienza: bini is an insignificant minority in present Nigeria. She is a minority of minorities,in the sense that even in the minority zone of south south,the bini's are still a minority,as the ibibio/annang/efik group,ijaw and igbo/igboid groups hold the ace there.

Igboland is more developed than biniland,as of today.

The list is endless. Umu bini just have to respect their superiors,gone are the days when a primitive tribe was allowed to extend their imperialistic influence over a large chunk of igboland.

You're basically thanking the white man for creating Nigeria. Didn't think I'd hear that from an avowed Biafran.

It seems pretty clear that you credit recent colonization with improving the lot of Igbos relative to some of their neighbors. Otherwise how else could you explain a "primitive tribe" extending their influence over a "large chunk of Igboland" (your words) and it taking the white man to put a stop to that? Maybe you should send white people in general a thank you card - to show your obvious appreciation.

And it's strange that people had to spend 70+ pages trying to convince some people that they are much more related to the supposed superior tribe than to a supposedly "primitive tribe."

pazienza: There are some men,too lilly livered to protect the intergrity of their group,when it's been denigrated,

The pattern in this thread is

(1) agbontaen or sonya4all or some other Ika or Delta Igbo person says something offensive about Igbos to distance themselves from Igbos and mentions Benin or Edo culture in general in a more positive light

(2) A few Igbo posters (not all) respond by saying offensive things about Binis and praising Igbos in some way or another by comparison

(3) A few Bini posters say something offensive about Igbos in response to the comments above by the people in (2)

Believe it or not, but Binis are not opening up threads to discuss Igbos and theorize about their supposed deficiencies. Binis generally aren't thinking about you or your group until they have some negative interaction with them - not even on this forum which has so many topics about your group. When you see such threads (such as in the nairaland politics section) about Igbos, there's almost no chance that the thread starter or the main responders and aggressive attackers in such threads are Bini. Even in the "Benin City Reborn" thread the guy who brought Anambra and Peter Obi into it and derailed the thread isn't even from Edo state, and definitely not Bini or from any other Edoid group.

The comments from Binis in this thread are purely reactive. If you want to confront those who are really interested in denigrating Igbos, why don't you head to the politics section and face them head on?

@ Pleep, I wasn't trying to make excuses for the violence and sexual depravity in South Africa. I'm just skeptical of the idea that sexual assaults and other forms of anti-social violence were so widespread before modern times. Maybe if I saw some sources showing convincingly that there was a lot of similarity and continuity between how they were in the past and how they are now then I would be more willing to accept that the dysfunctional behaviors in their societies are due to their genetic makeup.

As for that description of the Incwala ceremony in the scribd article, that's pretty fvcking awful if true. But I'm still skeptical:

We are neither prurient teenagers nor prudes at AIAC, so we looked at these leaked stories as media critics and cultural scholars. Having read the classic anthropological papers about the Incwala ritual, two things in this account by Sithembiso Simelane struck us. New elements in his testimony are: (1) the part about the snake (“the belief is that it cleans him of all the troubles he faced this year so that he emerges a new and strong person the next year”) and (2) the actual penetration — by the King — of the comatose bull (usually an ox). If true, these are recently introduced parts in the ritual. Otherwise, previous anthropologists never included these particular details in their descriptions, or they were oblivious to them. With the Swazi media now barred from covering this year’s ritual, we’ll have to rely on individual accounts — be it those from apostate regiment members or future anthropologists.

http://africasacountry.com/2011/12/15/the-swazi-bull/

I'm not exactly a fan of the Africa is a Country blog, but they seem to be right when pointing out that the particular way of performing the ritual/ceremony described by the guy in that scribd document you posted would probably be a new thing, since there is nothing in the older publications (which are from a time when scholars, anthropologists, and people in general were even less "politically correct" than they are now) that match the new things that he described in that scribd document.


On AIDS, that's another topic entirely and I don't want to get into a prolonged discussion of that, but basically, I doubt that higher promiscuity alone could explain the geographical pattern of the epidemic. I can't imagine that the last few decades are the first time in human history when there has been a society where people were promiscuous.

chukxie: I rep Ekpon from idumeko area, idemudin quarters. Greetings to everyone in the house.

Do some people from Ekpon consider themselves to be Ika people?

I know that will sound like a strange question since you came into an Esan thread and pretty much declared that you're an Esan man from Ekpon. But I just want to know if anybody from Ekpon views themselves as being Ika instead of Esan and if so, how widespread such views are there.

ezotik: dont mean to cut in the convo but i think it was the other way round.

lol, definitely

At one point he even resorted to listing Igbos from other parts of Nigeria, listed a white person married to a Delta Igbo, mentioned a random psychiatry professor whose name he saw on wikipedia, and other dishonest approaches, which is strange behavior for someone who came out swinging with claims that he would trump me if we were to compare people from our respective areas. And the funny thing is that I gave him the advantage of choosing exactly which areas to list people from that I would match as closely as possible and he still got floored.

pazienza: An igboman is the blackman with the highest recorded IQ

How do people even believe such moronic claims? One has to have a pretty low IQ to just believe some random unsupported claim about Emeagwali like this with no evidence.

I don't want to derail the thread anymore than it already has been by outlining the depth and scope of Emeagwali's fraudulence (which has already been done repeatedly by other people), so I'll just say that the IQ claim, like most things related to him, is a complete joke.

pleep: But even if it is not accurate it still shows a serious problem with South African men. This stat was based on a random sample questioner (at a university i believe) and 9 out of 10 admitted to r.ape! Either way we already know this crime is endemic in southern Africa.

Yeah, you're right in that it does show a serious problem with South African men - it means it's almost seen as normal or not such a big deal if 9 out of 10 can do it and also admit to it. In that case, yeah, their society is messed up pretty badly in that area. But I would still like to know what the original survey was and where it was carried out.

If it's totally accurate, then it probably has something to do with the breakdown of social norms in earlier generations. This is, after all, a society that had "necklacing" against those suspected of collaborating with the apartheid regime - a clear sign of the breakdown of social norms as far as violence is concerned - so if dysfunctional behaviors could also find their way into the sex lives of the society after the break down of social norms that wouldn't be too surprising.

It was discovered by an undercover white women who was let into (rediculous) the "secret" Incwala ceremony. I don't remember the original article but here is another one that supports it

http://swazimedia..com/2011/11/swazi-king-and-bestiality-ritual.html

Interesting. What was the name of this white woman who went undercover? Was she doing it for research or something?

How would that account stack up against these descriptions:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-6bhggRJ3lsC&pg=PT305

(read to p. 296)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bn1BbJevDUwC&pg=PA35

(read to p. 37)

http://books.google.com/books?id=il_Dv4XsuloC&pg=PA72

(read to p. 77)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Iv30H9bN65YC&pg=PA26

Which account do you think is more likely to be accurate? The ones in those links, or the account you referred to?

... are you saying that black people are more succeptible to Aids?

I don't know, honestly. But I wonder why the AIDS rate by country in Africa has such a distinct geographical pattern. If you look at any map of the AIDS rate by country in Africa, you see that southern Africa is worst hit as far as percentage of the population and North Africa is least affected.

pleep: The average black man looks at fertility indicators when evaluating the attractiveness of a woman. Titz and A$$. Facial features are barely even considered.

Yeah, but how do you explain:

"Butterface/Buttaface" (body looks good "but her face" doesn't) - black American slang, now also used by non-blacks in America sometimes

"Dime/Dime piece" (a woman who is a ten in looks on a scale of one to ten) - black American slang

And I'm sure there are a few others. If looks aren't considered, why would they bother coming up with these terms?

This is the most base (instinctual) way of selecting mates as it is a sub-conscious mating urge as opposed to a logical evaluation.

So when one is attracted to a very pretty face, this happens as a result of logical evaluation?

I think that's not something a person has a choice over either.

pleep: The results are staggering. Unwed pregnancy at 72% ... an estimated 50% of black women infected with herpes according to the CDC,

Probably has more to do with the socioeconomic conditions of a lot of black people in America and the dysfunctional behavior patterns that come from some of those who live in ghettos/hoods. I doubt that middle class black Americans or rich/wealthy black Americans have such bad statistics in these areas.

9 out of 10 men admitting to r.ape in South Africa

I've come across this statistic before and I'm pretty sure it's not accurate. I think the actual rate is something disproportionately high but it's not this high.

1/4 infected with AIDS in Lesotho,

The people of that region (southern Africa in general) seem to be more badly affected by the AIDS epidemic than most other places in black Africa, especially the West African region, which is far less badly affected. This suggests that the issue/problem really lies with their immune systems, not their reproductive tendencies/patterns. And considering that the other parts of black Africa where AIDS is less of a problem are just as black (if not more so, having no Khoisan admixture - for those who consider the Khoisan not to be 'black'), this makes it obvious that the issue really is in the immune system, not a hormonal issue or something to do with their libido.

the majority of women in Nigeria committing multiple abortions before their first marriage

Source?

In Swaziland a Royal ceremony even involves sodomizing a sedated bull and afterwards having vaiginal intercorse with 2 virgins... The perversions are endless. No race of man can build civilization on the foundation of his gyrating loins.

Really? Where did you read this?

I know you're exaggerating a bit for dramatic effect to get your point across, but the way you put things was kind of extreme.

Who is that quote after the dates "1388–1446" supposed to be from and which group of black slaves was that person talking about?

tonychristopher: NOW TELL ME ANY DECENT PLACE IN THE SO CALLED ANCIENT CITY, IS BENIN OLDER THAN LONDON OR MOSCOW OR PRETORIA. THE FACT IS THAT ANY CITY OR TRIBE THAT IS JUJU OR JAZZ TESTED WONT MOVE AHEAD OR DEVELOPE. BENIN CITY IS A CASE STUDY.

Benin is older older than Pretoria and Moscow.

And if London hadn't been founded by the Romans, I doubt that the actual British could have founded a major city so early.

bestview: Stop this madness of yours and wawalistic attitude. Did you not see tha ediot who first drew Anambra into this? Check the first page and you will see that bastard that first started the comparison. The thread is discussing the mirage going on in edo while somebody started m@sturbat!ng with Peter Obi's performance. What prompted him in the first instance to draw Anambra into his mess and the charade and the fraud going on in edo ?

The person who first drew Anambra into this (Rossikk) is not from Anambra state or Edo state.

He might be a tribal champion like you, and was just looking for an opportunity to put down Anambra because of his ethnic bias.

Or he might have just been offering some legitimate, sincere criticism of Anambra and its governor which you and your co-ethnics were too emotional to accept.

Abagworo: Why the sudden attack on Benin and Onitsha?

First it was the "might be Yoruba but doesn't really know his recent ancestry" guy.

Now its a few Igbo posters whining because Benin is old. Some of them are actually managing to rival that Kwara/Republic of Benin guy in crassness.

Why can't the tribal champions and ethnic gladiators just find another thread to display their "talents" and leave those who want to honestly discuss the topic of the thread to discuss it in peace?

ndu_chucks: The accusation in red above is quite serious and if true, the act could only have been carried out by barbaric monsters. However, I wouldn't go as far as generalizing that Binis are monsters.

Is this accusation true?

Conflicting reports:

http://www.thenigerianvoice.com/nvnews/79399/1/irate-youths-invade-hausa-quarters-in-benin-city.html

https://www.nairaland.com/842223/mosque-burnt-hausa-quarters-benin

https://www.nairaland.com/846273/hoodlums-kill-400-cows-during


But the Hausa in Benin don't seem to have problems in general:

http://allafrica.com/stories/201302100223.html?viewall=1

qhiwegh: By "reasonably certain" I mean unless I've had a DNA test, I can't be completely certain, but I'm certain up to that point.

You know, just because your mom sells herself around the neighbourhood, and as a result you don't know who your father is, doesn't mean it's the same with everyone else.

It's funny that you felt the need to define to me what you meant by the phrase "reasonably certain" when it should have been obvious that my comment was mockery.

As for the dumb mom jokes, my comments weren't about your mom, whether or not your mother was promiscuous, or about you being a bastard who doesn't know his father, although I see how you could read it that way, since you might have a guilty conscience about actually being a bastard.

I was mocking the fact that someone who literally has no clue about where exactly his recent ancestors are from is making it a point to display as much ethnic chauvinism and ethnic bias as possible in a thread which is about something entirely different.

Now, you previously didn't know the Republic of Benin was not "part of Yorubaland" but rather that it's only the case that part of Yorubaland is part of the Republic of Benin.

You didn't and still don't know where exactly your recent ancestors are from in Kwara and the Republic of Benin.

And it also seems that you didn't know that your own people (supposedly), the Yoruba, also frequently use the term "kingdom" to refer to areas under the cultural purview of the traditional monarchs in their land.

What else don't you know that you'd like help with?

Or better yet, do you actually know anything? I wouldn't want to waste any more of my time on somebody who is just clueless about everything.

qhiwegh: I'm reasonably certain of my father's identity.

lol @ "reasonably certain"

I think that's a euphemism for "I have no real clue."

Anyway it's no big deal to me. I just thought maybe you should get your real heritage straightened out before commenting on that of other people.

PapaBrowne: Intelligent Punch. Nice pointer!!

1000 likes!!

Thanks.

In one post he says its a joke, then in the very next post he reveals that one of his grandparents is from the country whose former president came to Benin decades ago to ask if they could change the name of their country from Dahomey to what it is now.

qhiwegh: Even if I am not of pure Yoruba ancestry (God forbid), the fact that my entire extended family speak Yoruba as their first language and identify exclusively as Yorubas and not any other ethnic groups is good enough for me.

But, basically, when it comes down to it, you're not really sure who your father is and you might be living a lie.

qhiwegh: Does it matter? They're Yorubas. I was born in Lagos to Yoruba-speaking parents. So, I'm a Lagos indigene.

Well I'm not saying that you don't know who your father really is - at least not right now. I'm just saying that both of those places (Kwara state and Republic of Benin) are multi-ethnic and assimilation went on in those places to some degree, so you might not be as "Yoruba" as you really think you are, and in fact, you might not be Yoruba at all, but instead mostly just some Hausa-Fulani-Fon-Ewe-Adja mix of unknown provenance.

Just some food for thought.

qhiwegh: I've never been to Benin, so I was wrong about it being part of Yorubaland. The fact is that part of the country is Yoruba.

You mean you've never been to the Republic of Benin.

And yeah, somewhere around one tenth of the country is Yoruba. But do you actually know where in Kwara and the Republic of Benin your grandparents are from?

qhiwegh: Is your head okay? Republic of Benin has nothing to do with Edo state. It's a part of Yorubaland.

Is your head okay? Did I say Republic of Benin has something to do with Edo state? No.

Republic of Benin is part of Yorubaland? Are you related to Adesegun Musiwa?

qhiwegh: Both of my parents grew up in Lagos. I'm born and bred Lagosian. My grandparents are from Kwara and [size=14pt]Republic of Benin[/size]. All proud Yorubas living in Yorubaland.

Sometimes I wonder if people think before typing stuff on here.