₦airaland Forum

smokie: In Nigeria, it seems progress stalled as soon as the British packed up and left.

For goodness sake stop repeating this lie that the British were making some sort of major progress developmentally in Nigeria during the colonial era. It has been debunked over and over again.

Also, I want to point out that the British contributed heavily to setting up a politically unstable Nigeria anyway by their insistence on dividing the country into three (why three? Why not two? Why not five? Why not seven? Why even divide it at all? They chose that number for a specific reason - to create three specific separate power blocs within one country) factions for "administrative convenience" but then deliberately making the three divisions along ethnic/cultural/religious lines (and let no Nigerian reading this claim that they divided the country along the major rivers as that would be false) instead of any other arrangement.

How can the British deliberately choose to create three practically separate governments within a future country that correspond roughly to three separate cultural/ethnic sectors of the country that view each other almost as strangers, and then when these groups start vying for power and start trying to outmaneuver one another and ethnic/sectional tensions arise, people will actually claim that the British had no hand in it simply because they've recently left?

The thing is, even with the sectionalist setup that they gave us, we should have overcome sectionalism by the 80s, but it seems to have persisted. So as much of a role as the British had in what happened in the 50s and 60s, they can't be blamed for what still persists to this day. Nigerians need to solve this political problem with more than just optimism and it will most likely require a separation.

in the belief that our freedom was attained easily.

Nobody is talking about how black south Africans won their freedom. That's obviously not the issue. People were making developmental comparisons and comparisons about stability.


I'm only interested in pointing out why Nigeria is less stable than South Africa and unstable in general, since the reasons why it's less developed are obvious.

all4naija: Whatever! It still hasn't changed anything that South Africa has the highest rate of crimes and HIV/AIDS in the continent.

I would only like to debate with you if you are going to play it with me on a level field. I don't like the hypocritical undertone in your comment.

What are you talking about?

I was just telling you that your claims were misdirected.

On South Africa, that crime rate is probably because of all the slums, which are a product of their history.

^^

Thanks. I read the description and it looks interesting. Next time I'm at a library I'll look for it.

andrewza is not black

go through his post history

Ki Katanga, where are you from in Africa? D.R. Congo?

Ki-Katanga:
Nope, I think you've nailed the biggest key item.

South Africa is South Africa, it doesn't want to change shape the people in it who are fighting for improvement are fighting together not fighting to separate.

There are few real (not superficial) similarities between Nigeria's history or politics and that of South Africa. I don't see how that's hard to comprehend for some. Why the political course/trajectory that South Africa is on would be compared to Nigeria's when the history and politics of the two countries are so dissimilar I don't know.

Nigeria's shape is in spite of its people who seem to focus on the idea that each of them are what's making Nigeria strong while everyone else is dragging Nigeria back.

What does this mean "Nigeria's shape is in spite of its people"?

And why is it so inconceivable that the country is being dragged back by some people (the thieves at the center)? And why do you assume that each group or person thinks that "everyone else" or every other group is dragging Nigeria back?

Nigeria can communicate on the world stage by virtue of its size. If it breaks into 36 countries of 3 million people each, none will have any more global sway than Benin.

This is a bad argument. I once saw some truth in it because I underestimated the factionalism and regionalism in Nigeria, but a giant with clay feet - an unstable megacountry - is definitely worse than a stable regular sized country. The really crucial issue, as I said in another thread, is dividing the country in a reasonable manner that is agreeable to different groups.

Why you think there would be 36 countries of 3 million, I don't know, but maybe it's because as an outsider you're making assumptions about the existing states corresponding to ethnic or political groupings. Anyway, if it even has to be 50 countries, let it.

Until Nigeria can convince the world that Nigeria is geographically and democratically stable people won't invest.

That's the point of what I was saying - Nigeria is inherently politically unstable.

[edited]

ndu_chucks: Indeed.

Trust me, when the shiit hits the fan, most of the NL tribalists who come here to spew hatred and venom, will escape abroad because they have the means to do that, the rest of them will remain abroad where they currently reside.

The over 120,000,000 Nigerians, who live on $1 / day and are trapped in abject poverty will be killed by the millions if a violent separation occurs. After having thought about our condition for years, I cannot foresee any scenario which would lead to peaceful separation.

We are better off working through the mess. We can win the fight.

Anyway carry on with your discussion - I did not intend to derail the thread.

And these are typical ndu chucks scare tactics - detailed allusions to violence and poverty to attempt to scare off those who want to think rationally.

smh

ifyalways: Physics, I think the humour lies in the fact that every name is stored/saved with the bearers occupation.
Ify pomo=ify the pomo seller.
Odumchi elero=odumchi the meat seller/butcher.
Hammad oni garri=hammad that sells garri.
Some names are also saved with the bearers residence.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

~Royal~:

Carmelita Jeter gained 40 pounds a deep manly voice and transformed from a skinny garbage sprinter to a NFL RUNNING back in her 30s

(a Age when sprinters are suppose to fall off)

Allyson Felix has a Voice like Shaquille Oneal out of No where...when 5 years ago she sounded like a little girl.

lol @ this

smh

typical ndu chucks reasoning

andrewza: That won't fix nigeria because there won't be a Nigeria. And no region could ever hope to be has strong alone has what the whole could have been.



Strength in Unity.

This approach has been tried though, and found to much be easier said than done.

asha 80: physics when did you become disillusioned about the country?i do not think your thought pattern was like that before

My thought pattern before was basically just optimism. But I think Nigeria as it's presently constituted is holding many people back.

I think that every part of the country would be better off if split and I gave a brief explanation of my view here:
https://www.nairaland.com/979972/african-languages-official-government/1#11606614

Basically the country is inherently politically unstable by its very setup. All this regional/sectional/ethnic alliance and counter-alliance forming that's been going on since the 1950s should have died out by the 1980s or maybe even earlier as the country matured, but it still exists and could destabilize the country in the future.

If the oil is found in the Chad basin (and it should be there, based on past discoveries in other countries on that basin) before 2015, then the north will have oil and maybe there will be some really serious effort to negotiate a peaceful breakup as the idea of them being left without comparable resources to the south will disappear from people's minds.

andrewza: I would like to add that the current black run south africa is actually wealthier than the apartheid regime. Nigeria is so far behind because they not united every other thread is about breaking up and civil war. They actually not the giant of africa more a tall deck of cards. [size=35pt]Until they unite separate they can not improve[/size]. And before you call me a racist I got my facts from the ISS who have a lot of intellectuals from Nigeria. You know Nigeria is one of the countries on a list that is likely to fall in to civil war. You one of the most imported nations in africa but some really smart people fear you may destroy your self. And you can not blame white people for this it is all you.

Fixed.

Man shut up and stop spewing garbage about places you've never been to and know nothing about. We know what happened in SA, we don't need you to come here with these fantastical tales of superiority. Your president actually thought that showering could reduce the risk of getting HIV and you're here pretending to be some kind of superior breed. What a joke. Have a little honesty and admit that there was no similarity in the histories of SA and Nigeria to merit the kind of comparisons you were making and maybe then you can be taken seriously, until then you're in the same mental la la land your president was in when he was showering to avoid HIV. Just stop with the bullsh1t comparisons you think actually make sense and grow a brain.

Olodostein: On the bolded, he didn't have no choice. He was obliged to speak out by the circumstances. If it was possible for him, he would dodge it with his calculative political move.

I listed the last three because he definitely wasn't compelled by the media or anyone to say those things at the time that they became a controversy. He was just speaking frankly and he spoke his mind.

He is a typical politician and should stop trying to posit himself as the imminent savior of humanity. His foreign policies thus far have been quite damaging.

I don't think he's trying to do that, but maybe some people in real life and in the media are putting that image on him.

Olodostein: Romney is more liberal(forget the campaign trial), empathetic and independent minded than him.

So empathetic that he said the Palestinians were worse off than the Israelis because the Israelis are culturally superior.

Some more of Romney's "empathy":

"Don't try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom."
—Mitt Romney, defending banks and kicking people out of their homes

"I should tell my story. I'm also unemployed." —Mitt Romney, speaking in 2011 to unemployed people in Florida. Romney's net worth is over $200 million.

So independent minded that he changes his positions at the first sign of the slightest criticism of his natural "liberal" inclinations by the political right.

wesley80: We wouldn't be humans if it weren't so would we?

Are you a follower of TB Joshua or something? Just wondering.

betrani: this is hw most of u run to conclusions! Do u ever weigh issues before u venture into exposing ur illiteracy? Everybody plagiarize but hw well u do it is what makes u good! The originator of the text I read there wasn't lephoar either her's is different because no one ever got his or her hand on the original text! Or mayb she remembered to give the originator a pat on the back

I posted a another link in the second post in this thread to a different article that goes into more detail (with more instances) of the plagiarism from Fareed Zakaria. Read it and you'll probably understand the situation a little better.

iragbijile: I feel debased just knowing that you exist.

merciless

snydergp: What poor state of mind u Nigerians live in thinking that Australia and britian build south africa even Australia aint that much more developed then S.A 55% of that country is desert with only native poor Aburiganies living there so don't tell me abt australia

Tell me why are there so many Nigerians in foreign countries is it because they don't see a future for there children in your country or are they just looking to extend there corupt criminal ways to the rest of the world. In South Africa 90% of all Nigerians who are arrested or in jail are is either involve in drugs or fraud.

South African politians don't buy propities in europe and america like ur Niaja politians with our tax money and we don't go to europe and U.A.E for medical treatment, so blame ur pathetic goverment for ur poor infrastructure not colonialism its ur incompetent corupt politians

If a nation keeps on dwelling in the past it can never develope history is just history and the future is every second from now leaf the whites an look at our own countries progression for a start maybe then u'll get electricity and good roads cause u still have a victim mentality

Reading through this thread, I think you might be slightly delusional.

Everyone knows how South Africa was developed. No one needs to see all these attempts at obfuscation and self glorification at the expense of the barest and most basic sense of honesty or proper reasoning. It's unseemly. I would engage you in a discussion, but some of your earlier posts make me suspect that mentally, you're in la la land. Bye.

Tolaaaaannni: No they just don't go to the background because, he is his Running mate. His plans and ideology can be used against romney by his competitor "The obama machine" through Ads. And Ads contribute a lot, if all you see on tv every time is that same ad, it might change your vote.

This is true, but I still think it's not going to be that big a factor for them and that the choice of Ryan was smart in terms of securing votes. I'm skeptical of how many votes Romney would really lose because of undecided voters thinking Romney would try to implement Ryan's budget. I don't think it'll have a really significant effect.

BizBooks: @PhysicsQED,

Romney used to be a moderate but not anymore. He has reversed all the moderate positions he
took in the past in favour of far right positions. For instance:

He used to be in favour of Gun Control - Not anymore
He used to be Pro-Choice - Not anymore

A true moderate will not pick a hard liner like Ryan as his running mate. He did it to please
the conservative wing of the republican party. That's why TIME magazine called him a Wimp in
their last week edition. He cannot stand up to the bullies of the Tea Party and far right.

Well I said apparent. Even with what you mentioned, he would probably still be considered a moderate compared to some other Republicans.

I don't think Romney really knows where he stands on many things. He seems to just try and appeal to the crowd on some things.

Tolaaaaannni: Dude have u even seen his budget plan. His plan to raise defence spending, Medicare cutbacks, Medicade cutbacks, Tax cuts (which basically means eliminating loopholes and deductions so that some people who end up exempt from taxes—including many lower earners—would end up paying something.)e.t.c Its all bad!! I don't know about you, but the vast majority of americans don't want to see cuts in social security or medicare. And that's a FACT!

If I were a betting man, I'd bet money that we won't hear even a peep out of Paul Ryan promoting his plan when we get close to election time. He'll almost certainly just evade questions about that budget of his. The vice president and his ideas go to the background, naturally, so that's not a huge liability for Romney and the gain in picking Ryan definitely outweighs the risks.

While some Ghanaians revere TB Joshua as a true man of God, a host of others see him as a fraud and scam artist

The exact same thing can be said about Nigerians.

Some of his analyses were interesting on the instances that I watched his show, but he seemed to be very invested in "proving" that America's greatness was a thing of the past and that the rest of the world was overtaking America to a degree that most other American pundits - even those on the far left - aren't. In light of this scandal, a lot of people on the political right that find out about it will probably be happy. But I didn't mind the guy so much. When he wasn't talking about America, his show was sometimes interesting.

Olodostein: May Romney/Ryan win.

Obama is just too phoney; he doesn't have the guts to say what is on his mind, always beating around the bush.

Please consult this thread and gain some knowledge:

https://www.nairaland.com/1006577/dumb-mitt-romney-quotes-funny

Please also remember that Romney is the same guy that actually said that the "trees are the right height" in a state in an pathetic/phony attempt to suck up to voters in that state.


Obama spoke on

-the Henry Louis Gates arrest
-the Trayvon Martin slaying
-Kanye west being a jackass
-black American social issues (which made Jesse Jackson falsely claim he was 'talking down to black folk')
-what a so called "typical white person" would do in a certain specific situation

and some other things very frankly and bluntly in a way that earned him some criticism and in some cases, some agreement/admiration. Let's not completely distort recent reality when it's so fresh in all our memories.

Delafruita: ryan has been in contention for a while.he campaigned with romney for a week and the 2 seemed to get along very well.as for the choice been smart,its the exact opposite.the aim is to draw blue-collar voters and core conservatives.however,the democrats will shift the focus to ryan's budget which even a far-right man like gingrich criticized.the budget is simply ridiculous and is even worse than gingrich's "contract with america".
i see this move as the worst romney has made.he was been pummeled on all sides and now he picks a VP with a budget baggage

That's my point. It's smart. Romney's apparent "moderateness" doesn't appeal to the core conservatives and his extra rich background doesn't appeal to the right demographic. It's not about that budget proposal, which will soon become irrelevant, but about Ryan's appeal.

pleep: Foreign or not is is still important. English is the official language of Nigeria while french is in Cameroon. The official language allows ppl of different backgrounds to communicate with each other, so it is the most pertinent issue in this discussion. The people of Southern Cameroons can assimilate better into Nigerian schools & society than in their current country.

This is an ethnic map of Nigeria and West Cameroon. Note that the Southern Cameroons region is inhabited by the Anyang, Banyang and 'bangwa' groups which are all dialects of the same ethnic group. They can communicate with each other in either English or their native languages. In Addition to this we have the Ekoi, which are found in Nigeria aswell as Cameroon.

Pleep, the people of Southern Cameroons have and have had an ongoing secessionist movement that does not involve Nigerians in any way. Read up on the "Republic of Ambazonia."

On the Ekoi/Ejagham and the Boki of Nigeria being found in Southern Cameroons - well those are only two groups. I posted that link to show you that most groups of Southern Cameroons are distinct from those of Eastern Nigeria, but some of these groups or at least more closely related groups can be found in other parts of Cameroon or central Africa.

Smart choice. Romney must have some competent advisors somewhere in his entourage because I doubt he could have thought of this himself.

Deep Sight: You are being terribly illogical. If there existed no singularity prior to the big b.ang, then from what did the expansion occur? What expanded? Nothingness? So long as it was a somethingness that expanded, then that somethingness necessarily existed before it could be said that it expands. Any less would be pure illogic: voodoo.

And since we necessarily speak of a "before," this then logically translates to pre-existent time. Period.

I really don't have the energy to debate the obvious. That's why I ended up not responding to your very long write ups in the "Speed of Light" thread.

It's getting very frustrating trying to explain this to you.

1. There is no such thing as "a singularity prior to the big b.ang." It's a nonsensical assertion and you deliberately keep trying to present this scenario that thehomer seems to have stamped permanently into your consciousness where there is some singularity just sitting there in stasis for some significant but unspecified period of time for whatever reason and then it starts expanding. Dispose of that idea at once and then maybe you can make some progress.

2. Do you even get what the singularity is? Do you understand the meaning of "infinitesimally small volume" and "infinite density"? How you could possibly ask me what expanded is astonishing.

pleep: How do you figure that? They were an English speaking territory, like Nigeria, and many of the ethnic groups in E. Nigeria spill over into the southern Cameroons territory. They also feel like they are being marginalized by the rest of the country and want to leave.

This is what a military is for, we should take it back by force.

1. Well the English thing is a foreign aspect of their country. One would certainly not claim that because people from Mozambique speak Portuguese they are more closely related to or similar to the Cape Verdeans that also speak Portuguese than to the other southern African peoples around them.

2. On the ethnic composition of Southern Cameroons, see this:

County Ethnic Groups:
Fako Bakweri, Mboko
Meme Bafaw, Bakundo, Balundu, Balong
Kupe Manenguba Bakossi, Mbo, Bassosi
Ndian Ngolo, Batanga, Ekondokondo
Lebialem Banwa, Nweh-Mundam, Wabane
Manyu Banyang, Kenyam, Ejagham, Boki, Ayang
Momo Widikum broken into the Metta, Menemo, Ngie, Ngwo, Menkas
Mezam Ngemba, Chamba
Menchum Aghem, Jebah,Mnen,
Boyo Kom, Bum
Ngoketunjia Tikar fractionalised into small different language groups.
Bui Nso, Oku, Noni
Donga – Mantung Wimbum, Mfumte, Yamba, Mbembe of Jukunoid

In summary the Grassland Region is peopled by the Tikar, Widekum Ngemba, Hausa and Fulani. While the rest are geographically located, the Hausa and Fulani, who are Moslems by religion, were the late comers into this region and are thus scattered all over.

http://www.unpo.org/article/2087

3. On the issue of whether they could or could not get along with Nigerians during the colonial period, the answer is clearly a no from available evidence.

hammedkola: if you read well, you will see that this a culture section, NOT a joke section...So watch it!

Well, what's so funny?

Is the point of the thread that a typical Yoruba woman only has Yoruba names in her phonebook or what?

Make sure not to rely on Ivan van Sertima or David MacRitchie when you do come back to "shed light" on that because if you do you'll just be wasting your time.