₦airaland Forum

Most of these came from osprey military books.

Oh. That's too bad. I was hoping for more authentic pics, rather than just fact-based Osprey/Angus McBride reconstructions.

Still although this may show medieval africans had armour, this depicts the sudan and sahel, not bad. What about closer to home as in south of the sahel like guinnea, and the forest regions?

Well, that's what my response earlier was getting at. All of those places in Guinea (the 'Guinea coast') that I mentioned (except maybe Asante (where the soldiers may have just dressed like civilians but packed European guns), which was not really a significant military force in more medieval times anyway) and even Bamum (which had a cavalry force inspired directly by Hausa attire/style, that they came across through trade connections), had formal military wear. If you read books on Benin, Igala, Nupe, Oyo etc. and the other places that I mentioned, this becomes abundantly clear from the information collected from various scholars. For example, Robert Smith, a historian of West Africa, published an article on two chain mail hauberks that are preserved in the palace of Owo to this day. Other books on Oyo, Benin, Nupe, Bornu, and the other places that I mentioned make it clear that they had formal military armor.

Now in terms of actual images: In the case of Benin we have many images (from the art) of Benin armor and even a few images of the attire of certain high ranking enemy soldiers (probably Igala) that they captured in war. From Owo, we have images of how Yoruba horsemen dressed from at least two different pieces of art in wood and ivory, and also there are several pieces of wooden art from a later date from different places that depict other modes of dressing for the horsemen. Those horsemen would probably be Oyo horsemen specifically.

What about Kilwa?

Kilwa, as far as I'm concerned, was a Persian and later Arab transplant onto a geographically African area. The Kilwa probably dressed exactly however Arabs dressed whenever they had to fight.

As for the Zulu, no, their attire was not much different from the "half clad men with just a shield and mostly a spear" that you mentioned in the opening post.

Can you also post images with a source or sources of the Makurian soldiers that you saw?


Here are some images of the bronze statue of a medieval archer that was found in Jebba, Nigeria:

https://www.africanart.org/uploads/slides/images/04jebba_bowman.jpg

[img]http://images.library.wisc.edu/ArtHistory/S/52/t/165140t.jpg[/img]

https://images2.bridgemanart.com/cgi-bin/bridgemanImage.cgi/400wm.DBP.0906140.7055475/412911.jpg

It's not clear to me what the material underneath his outer tunic would be made of or even what the outer garment itself was made of, but as an archer, he would probably only be lightly armored. Presumably, there are books out there where this piece of art has been studied by experts that would yield more information on what exactly it is that he is wearing, but I can't recall any at the moment.

Thanks.

This is the list of SAN up to 2011:

http://www.nigerianlawguru.com/information/SENIOR%20ADVOCATES%20OF%20NIGERIA.pdf

Anyone sufficiently interested in the ethnic distribution of the recipients can comb through that list, determine the ethnic background of all those listed there, and compile their data. The ethnic distribution isn't a particularly interesting topic for me, though.

Okija_juju: Are you tripping?

9 Yorubas

5 Igbos

5 Hausas

And 2 others...

Dude that's marginalization yo!

First, one of those is an Igala (Onoja), one is an Edo (Ogbodu), one is an Ijaw (Selekeowei), so it's 3 "others"

Second, 2010, and 2011:

"The LPPC had on July 7, this year, okayed the 30 lawyers for the award of SAN for 2010 and 2011. The new SANs for 2010 are: Pat Onegbedan, Isaac Nwazue Ijioma, Agatha Obiozo Mbamali, Dan Ose Okoh, Kenneth Ekene Mozia, Yahaya Mahmood, Ferdinand Oshioke Orbih, Olanrewaju Ayodele Ogunlesi, Anthonia Titilayo Akinlawon, Oluwemimo Adepoju Akinlanwon and Oluwemimo Adepoju Ogunde. Others are Prof. Imran Oluwole Smith (Academics) Ikechukwu Ezechukwu, Okechukwu Amechi, Nnadi Jude Ositadinma and Abiodun Jelili Owonikoko.


For 2011, they are: Faye Dikio, Garba Shamatu Pwul, Granville Isetima Abibo, Hassan Muhammad Liman, Babatunde Adekunle Aiku, Dr. Peter Terkaa Aper (Academics), Adesegun Muhammed Ajibola, Yakubu Chonoko Maikyau, Okon Nkanu Efut, David Oghenovo Ezaga, James Uko Kalu Igwe (Academics), Norrison Ibinabo Quakers, Jibrin Samuel Okutepa and Solomon Eyibo Umoh.

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/katsina-alu-dares-nba-inaugurates-new-sans/97098/


There's not some deliberate marginalization trend going on.

The ethnic distribution isn't all that skewed anyway, even if it 9 Yorubas. The difference is kind of marginal. It's not like its 20 Yorubas and 4 others.

Igala, Nupe, Oyo, Bornu, Benin, Sokoto, Baguirmi, the Borgu states, Owo, the Hausa states, Kwararafa, Mali, Songhai, Denanke/Great Fulo, and perhaps Bamum (in Cameroon) or Asante are groups you might want to find out more about as far as finding out about formal military armor in pre-colonial Africa (there are probably some others I missed though). Books on these kingdoms would give more details on their armor and weaponry than what's already known or easily available online, so I suggest tracking down whatever historical books you can on these groups to find out more about their armor.

There's also this book Yoruba warfare in the nineteenth century

https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41dRZ4afueL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

that you might want to look at. I checked it out from a library once, but only skimmed through it since I had a lot of other books that I was looking at and reading at the time.

This review of the book:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1525/aa.1966.68.6.02a00380/pdf

suggests that it probably has some of the information that you're looking for, as far as the Yoruba in particular are concerned, although it's not dealing with the more medieval time frame that you needed.


Oh yeah, and could you post an image (with a source) of the Ouagadougou horsemen that you saw?

nagoma: ( The real original BH has basically admitted that and i wish the President has the balls to bring those criminals to face the music. Your problem is that you will never rest until all northern Muslims, the millions of them are declared terrorists and BH which is not so.)

I don't have an issue with the Northern muslims or the Northern christians or the Northern pagans, but what disgusts me is the desperate attempt to place the blame for the savagery and brainlessness of boko boys on "the fisherman" or on economic conditions existing elsewhere in Africa by some people from the North.

( this dumb question cannot be asked by a living person in 2012 even if he is non Nigerian living in Siberia.)

There was nothing dumb about the question.

When you can explain what deterioration there was in the bokos' living standard or livelihood that wasn't there previously, maybe you'll actually have a point with all this "rapid decline" stuff. How can people who are already at their lowest point, before GEJ came on, somehow experience a rapid decline as soon as he is elected, but when you ask what this rapid decline is no one can give a straight answer? It's annoying.

michelin89: the most famous of all sailor moon.

I don't think so.

@ topic

Anime >>>>>>>>>>>>> Western animation

But I still have a soft spot for some of the old classic western cartoons like droopy, donald duck, goofy, wily coyote, Tom and Jerry, atom ant, pink panther, snagglepuss, yogi bear, the flintstones, the jetsons, secret squirrel, foghorn leghorn, etc. I can watch those over again any day.

kandiikane: Eg. Last friday, I went out with my bf to a club. He won't leave my body alone. I mean he doesn't usually do it often, but whenever we go I.e night outs or something he always tends to show too much. I was in two minds about it.

I am thinking it's his vanity and ego, he likes to make sure others see what he's dealing with and owns.

Funny. One would think a married man wouldn't care about stuff like that anymore.

edicolove: What are the errors in the article? Or you dont want to hear truth. You have wikipedia and google. Use it man. Dont be lazy.

I know the truth, that's why this pitiful attempt to excuse and minimize the significance of the Atlantic slave trade annoys me. If you can't read between the lines, then maybe you don't understand what it is you're actually reading.

nagoma: On your first point - the real poor do not talk in terms of "economic deprivation and poor governance" unlike you , they are not this articulate . When they feel it in their bodies and among their families and they compare with the leadership, they reckon that they have nothing to lose- not even a life and the rest is history. You can analyze and call it economic deprivation..

This is the worst and most pitiful explanation I've seen for boko haram. As if poverty is exclusively a northern Nigerian phenomenon. Where is the rest of the terrorism in all of the other poor parts of Africa?

Why can't people just admit that they're just violent and dumb fanatics, period?

Your last point that Nigeria has been like that for 30 years. - the last 2 years are the worst and the rapid decline continues , ironically when we have the much hyped educated (GEJ PhD ) SOUTHERNERS at the helm of affairs.

A decline from WHAT?

There was nothing significant to decline from to start with. This argument makes no sense, and as someone already mentioned, the bokos started getting more violent under Yar Adua.

~Bluetooth:
US FOREIGN POLICY IN THE MIDDLE EAST GAVE BIRTH TO THE TALIBAN STRUGGLE AGAINST SOVIET UNION WHICH LATER TRANSFORMED INTO ALQAEDA,a counter-measure alqaeda initiated against US occupation of Afghanistan.Kharijisim didnt just start today,it is an age-old arab tradition against oppressive government and the ideology can be seen in the way boko haram operates.Boko haram can just be another taliban-style machinery set up for a particular purpose.

Who is oppressing boko haram? Northern elites?

How many northern elites have they successfully killed?

It would seem the northern region of this country will intentionally or unintentionally drag the country into depths it can never recover from and then put the blame on whatever else they can.

Hopefully the country will split by or before 2015.

When has Boko haram complained extensively about economic deprivation and poor government?

Is it so inconceivable that some people are brainwashed, blind, deluded, and motivated by just pure evil? It's not exactly something that has never happened before in the world.

One might as well claim that 911 and al qaeda were brought about by frustration with the US's heavy support of Israel and "poor" US foreign policy in the middle east and that therefore US support of Israel is the "real issue". Of course, a US government would never see things that way - they would explain to you that the terrorists are fundamentalists driven by evil and hatred (which they are) and continue with their current foreign policy.

[size=15pt]Nigeria has had bad government and economic frustration/deprivation for the last 30 years.[/size]

This is actually a bad idea (if they ever intended to actually realize it).

What's the source of this article, where are the references/justifications for every single statement in it, what's the name of the author and what are his or her affiliations?

There are numerous errors in this article. If this was meant to be "educational" it's a woeful failure, because it also involves some heavy misinformation.

Mind you, I have no particular reason to defend Islam or Arabs, but the attempt of this article to distort certain things is annoying.

https://www.nairaland.com/986977/origin-aids-polio-vaccine-documentary

^^^

Front page it.

I've been following this issue for a while. It completely creeps me out that this could really be true. Here are some links/sources to read more:


1. An article giving an overview of the issue/debate:

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=31540

2. A wired magazine article, by Brandon Keim, citing Worobey's study:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/10/aids-didnt-come/

Hooper's rejoinder to the wired article (from the comments section):

"Ed Hooper's response:

The "Wired" article by Brandon Keim only underlines why journalists
with limited knowledge of a subject shouldn't be encouraged to
pass public judgement, especially when the subject is as important as this
one.

Mr Keim's arguments are extremely weak. My brief responses:

(a) Nobody has tested the bloods of those who received this particular
experimental polio vaccine in Africa, and testing the bloods of those who
were given the vaccine elsewhere is irrelevant, for the non-African versions
of the vaccine were made differently.

(b) Nobody has ever tested the relevant batches of vaccine that were used
(and prepared) in Africa,. They have only tested similar vaccine batches
that were made in the US.

(c) HIV-1 Subtype B is actually a subtype of HIV-1 Group M. For Mr Keim to
claim that the two are "not closely related" shows only that he is
comprehensively confused!

(d) Mr Keim says that scientists have arrived at a consensus that the OPV
theory is incorrect. As readers of my web-site (www.aidsorigins.com) will
know, that statement is poorly supported. As more and more scientists and
members of the public are realising, not one of the so-called "disproofs" of
the OPV theory is
scientifically sound. The position Mr Keim is adopting seems similar to
that
of a well-meaning journo who parrots tobacco industry scientists in the
1960s, who give assurances that there is no provable link between
cigarette-smoking and ill health.

With best wishes,

Ed Hooper"


2. Key publications from Worobey on the subject:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v428/n6985/abs/428820a.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7213/full/nature07390.html

And the rejoinder to Worobey's studies:

http://www.aidsorigins.com/content/view/214/2/

https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/Hooper08.pdf



3. Lots of links to info about the probable origin of AIDS from polio vaccines:

https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/

https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/#latest


4. An interesting article and debate (the comments below the article) with comments directly from Hooper, and on the other side, Koprowski and Plotkin

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n07/edward-hooper/aids-and-the-polio-vaccine



This is something that's bothered me for a while now and I really do lean toward it originating with the polio vaccines in the Congo. It just seems like the most plausible explanation, even if it might be the most troubling one.

Anyway, questions 2, 3 and 4 below.

(If you still believe you can answer any historical question about all of Africa and give the context, if not just ignore this).


Question 2:

The Jukun Kwararafa/Kororofa priest king was said to wear a brass disc on his crown and Kwararafa was an ancient center of bronze (probably brass, actually) casting (also a center of iron, silver and gold industries) according to Percy Amaury Talbot's ethnographic studies. Now when did the bronze or brass casting start and what was its full ceremonial/social significance?

Questions 3 & 4:

The Berber traveler Ibn Battuta makes a claim about a certain state named "Yufi" (he also calls it "Yuwi" at one point) that was one of the most powerful black kingdoms in his time according to his informants:

"Then the river flows to Yufi, which is one of the biggest cities of the blacks. Their sultan is one of their greatest Sultans. A white man cannot go there because they would kill him before he arrived there." - Ibn Battuta, 1352/1353

Now is this place actually Nupe or is it a Zimbabwean state called "Yufi"? Note that this "Yufi" wasn't one of the places in Africa that Ibn Battuta actually went to himself, but that he only collected information from informants about it.

a) the substitution of y for n sounds and of f for p sounds were occasionally made in some languages or by errors in pronunciation or writing, so Yufi could actually be Nupe (which was also called Nufe, Nyffe, Nife, etc.)

b) the author notes the gold dust that they (Yufi) trade, which corresponds to an actual Nupe tradition/history of trade in gold, but states that they trade in gold with Sofala, a place in southeastern Africa, in modern day Mozambique. While some other places immediately around Nupe had gold located in them as well, Nupe had traditions/history of trading in gold, which it's not clear the other states immediately around it did extensively. However, gold mining and trading in Zimbabwe in the past is well attested to as well.

c) Battuta specifically notes that the Niger river - which he designates the Nile (he perhaps believed it to be an extension of the Nile) throughout the text while giving descriptions of places in West Africa that actually surrounded the Niger river, not places in East Africa that surrounded the Nile - runs into the country/kingdom of "Yufi", corresponding perfectly with the fact that the Niger river does indeed run right through the kingdom of Nupe and the Nupe people's lands, but not through that of other potential candidates for the kingdom of "Yufi" in West Africa with a similar enough name.

However, if the "Nile" (Niger) river was actually confused with the Zambezi river in his account, then this would fit perfectly with it being a direct reference to a Zimbabwean state called Yufi (which may have been Great Zimbabwe) that traded gold with Sofala (a port belonging to the Mutapa/Monomotapa kingdom). Furthermore, he claims that this "Yufi" is only a months journey inland from Sofala.

d) The existence of a powerful Nupe state in the 14th century would appear to be confirmed by the Katsina chronicle's mention of a war between the Hausa under Muhammad Korau and the Nupe kingdom, which bordered Katsina. However, if Yufi were actually the kingdom of Zimbabwe, that would equally fit Battuta's description of the kingdom as having one of the biggest cities and having one of the greatest kings, since Zimbabwe was flourishing at that time.

Now the questions are,

Did he mean to indicate a Zimbabwean state called "Yufi", or the ancient Nupe state? The "Nile" river mentioned by him as flowing through "Yufi" is definitely actually the Niger from his descriptions of the places he says surround it and which it goes to, but the place (Sofala) he said Yufi traded with is definitely in southeastern Africa.

and

Why was Ibn Battuta told that they would kill any "white" man in their territory on sight? What was the context for their grudge against "whites"?


[Once again, I have my own ideas/theories, but I want to hear those of others.]

SmoothCrim: The real origin is not different from their neighbors as I said, if you simply look at their language you can get an idea of where they are from...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jukun_Takum_language

This is what also proves they are not Sudanese as their language is not even close to being classified as a Sudanese language. By how their language is classified they are not different from their neighbors

Well, they are obviously not Sudanese in the modern sense, but as far as I can tell the descriptions of them as "Sudanic" were more about supposed cultural resemblances and geographical origin than ethnic or linguistic affinity with Sudanese people. And yes their language is Platoid, but as alluded to earlier, a Scandinavian group (Normans) and a German group (Lombards) came to speak Italian when they settled there. Language is a very good indicator of origin/affinity so I basically agree with your conclusion but I also realize that it's not always so clear cut.

MsDarkSkin: For example if a red dragon had babies and some of the babies ventured north and mixed with other dragons (blue)...their descendants would be purple. Now, some of these purple dragons after many YEARS migrate back to their ancestral land and mix with some of the red dragons, you will result in a few [color=magenta]magenta dragons[/color] (change in appearance) but not enough to change the entire population's make up. Why? because these purple and [color=magenta]magenta[/color] dragons ALL have STRONG roots in red dragon land to begin with. Get my drift?

lmao

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Spyro_the_Dragon.jpg

https://www.pokemonsux.com/charizard.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Blue_Dragon_Box_Art.jpeg

wtf are you talking about?

rubbish

This is terrible. I wonder how the shrinking is going to be countered (if at all).

holy shiiiiiiit

eGuerrilla: I laugh in Vulcan[i]ese[/i]

lmao


well, @ topic, I truly hope they find a better alternative to this company, or that this company somehow comes through

SmoothCrim: The Hausa invaded Kwararafa because it was a weak state. The context of any of these invasions by the Hausa in Nigeria was to demonstrate ethnic superiority over what was then viewed as weak people.

I asked you why the Kwararafa successfully invaded the Hausa on multiple occasions as admitted by the Hausa themselves and you go off on some tangent that has no correspondence to the question? Bizarre.

The Jukun are not Sudanese in Origin. They are most related to neighboring Central Nigerians and their origin is not much different from their neighbors.

And what's the origin of their neighbors?

Anyway, I agree with them not being "Sudanese" in origin ethnically, but the question was more geographical - about what place further to the east they might have been in the past.

Remember that the Normans, a group of Scandinavian origin, were able to establish a kingdom all the way down in Italy when thinking about this claim about the Jukun. It's not totally impossible.

Now, the forces of ethnogenesis has brought forth different ethnic groups but, go back a few 100 years and, these are the same people. The fake Sudanese origin is a myth created by clueless 1900's writers.

Well, once again, I don't think they're of Sudanese origin either - whether in an ethnic or a geographical sense. But I wanted to know if you could give a stronger rebuttal/refutation of the idea that they were from some other place in the Sudan at an earlier point in time if you disagreed with the claim.

Anyway, I rate your answer a 1 out of 2. The first part of the response was trash, the second part was decent enough. A 50% grade.