₦airaland Forum

~Bluetooth:
One day,all of you will go back to your ancestral home of ile-ife.

And one day the "Oghene" will go back to his ancestral home too.

~Bluetooth:
So where did ''oba'' title originate from ? Britain or portugal ?

Oba is a Yoruba word, as far as I can tell.

What does that have to do with anything that was posted?

Those boys on Benin must have really done a number on you when you were in school. Go get counseling and you'll get over it.

Dede1: @PhysicsQED
Good to know that the so-called Benin Empire was filled to the brink with criminals and destitute people. I guess British did not visit other kingdoms before Benin and there were no criminals and destitute people in those other kingdoms too.

lmao "filled to the brink"?

Who told you those people comprised even a significant fraction of the populace of the capital? Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

I'm not going to post some of the negative things British wrote about some of the other places they visited in Nigeria because like I said I don't want to sink that level again and it's a waste of time, since your mind is set.

bokohalal: I am sure you will find it in the book by Thomas hodgkins' Nigerian perspective;a Historical Anthology.

Ah, I must have forgotten that (I read that book a long time ago too).

~Bluetooth:
How e no go make sense ancient man. . .Did the title of ''oba'' also originate from bini too ?

There are actually European maps designating a place as the kingdom of Ogane (based on a misunderstanding of a claim of the Benin informants about a ruler in southern Nigeria who held the title of Oghene, which was also spelled Ogane by the Portuguese) or variations on that term. Ogane is even closer to guinea than "aginaw" (the supposed Tuareg origin of the word) and southern Nigeria is actually at the coast ( the "Guinea coast" ), unlike the Tuareg people. I didn't say I was 100% certain that it was true, just that the claim makes sense.

bokohalal: 'Oghene'was first corrupted to 'Ogane' before it became 'Guinea'with passage of time and other Europeans getting on board

That would make sense since there were European maps designating a place in Nigeria as 'Ogane' and other variations of that term. I'm not 100% sure this is right, but it does make logical sense.

Dede1: Oba of Benin was told in no uncertain language to sit quietly in Benin City and avoid certain human endeavors by the western regional governemnt under Awo.

Way to dodge my question. I asked you how he was reduced in position and you tell some story about "Awo said". What does what Awo said have to do with the fact that there was no change in his actual position. Or was making him a minister without portfolio in the western region government the supposed reduction in position, or what?

I guess you remembered the famous political quote that made rounds in the old western region of Nigeria. The little authority of Oba of Benin wielded prior to the British invasion ended in 1897.

That "little authority" extended pretty far in Nigeria according to a whole slew of sources. I'm not concerned with the Western region of Nigeria's politics. I'm asking how his position was reduced.

Of course, you would argue the dead bodies and some cases headless ones were those of criminals and destitute people who never had a proper burial as if Benin Empire was jungle.

How were totally destitute people that died buried everywhere else in the world at that time? Burying homeless people is mostly a modern thing.

Crucifixion on trees was the method of execution for criminals, and they described people who had been crucified on trees. Now employ a little reasoning and common sense and reach the appropriate conclusion. We know that there are others that would have been executed besides criminals, but a significant amount would have been criminals.

Anyway, Benin Empire was what it was, village.

So much of a village that maps from the past designated almost half of southern Nigeria as Benin. So much of a village that there's a bight named after it, and the president of another country went to Benin to ask if he could rename his country after it.

The statement from you about British claim or lack thereof is plain laughable.

Because the British understood everything that was going in places they weren't familiar with, right? I could put up some of the British precolonial claims about and descriptions of some other parts of Nigeria but there's no point sinking to that level.

It is noted in history books that Oba dying in Calabar was not as result of the power wielded by Oba. What different does it make if Oba died happily or crazily?

Well the Oba can be seen sitting peacefully in some pictures.

He can be seen with some family members.

Where's the pic of Ralph Moor looking peaceful in 1909? I saw a pic of the newspaper announcing his suicide though.

bokohalal: More often than not.

When people have an exotic, different or unique look rarely seen, that look might stand out more and get disproportionate attention, but it doesn't amount to automatically being more handsome. I disagree with the idea that mixed people are usually more handsome than others.

bokohalal: How many Nigerians know that the word 'Guinea 'is a Bini word? And 'fetish' entered European lexicon after encountering the Binis?

How do you know fetish came about specifically from encountering the Binis? They weren't the only people practicing their religious beliefs in West Africa when the Portuguese got there.

On guinea, since the origin of the word is not really known (although there's a Tuareg word which is claimed here: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=guinea but Tuaregs are very far from the coast and that wouldn't really make sense) I would be interested in seeing the Bini etymology.

bokohalal: Oba Orhogbua is reputed to have been the most handsome king ever in Benin. Is it possible he was of mixed race? Remember now that he was also said to have very fair skin and he schooled in Portugal and he reigned during the period of portuguese voyages to the Guinea coast.

So being mixed race amounts to being more handsome?

Oba Orhogbua's mother was the Iyoba Elaba, Oba Esigie's favorite wife. Oba Orhogbua was not mixed.

Dede1: It is funny some Nigerians are piling too much weight to the position of certain traditional rulers in Nigeria.

How are people "piling too much weight to the position of certain traditional rulers"?

You're an authority on the weight that should be attached to certain traditional rulers by their people?

The doubt people have about the position of Alaafin of Oyo was brought by the western regional government led by Awolowo.

Awolowo deposed multiple kings in the Western region for various reasons.

The Alaafin of Oyo deposition business had to with the death of Bode Thomas.

In the same stance, the western regional government reduced the position of Oba of Benin to mere name recognition.

How?

I guess the same gods that informed the Oba of Benin to embark on lavish sacrifices, including humans, to avert the wrath of British Empire in 1897. Yet the Oba died as an inconsequential prisoner in a faraway land.

The British claimed the sacrifices were due to their invasion, but some of those people were just criminals or destitute people who weren't afforded proper burials and were left by the road to rot as can be seen from some of the descriptions. We know there were sacrifices, but I'm not sure how they would know there was some big increase in the sacrifices being carried out.

The Oba died peacefully in Calabar in 1914 after living with some of his family members there. The man who organized the entire Benin invasion, Sir Ralph Moor, committed suicide and died in 1909 from poison taken while temporarily insane. I think I know which of these two ways I'd prefer as a cause of death.

ifihearam: @hysics
You be complete mugu
Who is referring to lucky
I am talking about the Esama of the universe
The only esama that place the oba under his feet
The esama that told the whole world he is the oba of benin
The same esama that made the so called oba trek from the court to the palace with tears on his face

The same Esama that sent people to go and beg the Oba for forgiveness? That's who you're referring to? Maybe you're referring to him because you're an id1ot and you don't keep up with those events in Edo state that you don't like.

nnenna.1:
I honestly don't know either. Most Africans who make it here comprise of struggling folk who seek greener pastures abroad.

And they make up the majority of folks in the elite schools. Case in point: the Nigerian kid who got graduated with the highest GPA at Johns Hopkins.

The Africans here are from different social strata. Some are "well to do", some are middle class, and some are from a poorer background. Reading claims that every African student in an American university is "well to do" after seeing direct evidence to the contrary multiple times with my own eyes is a bit unsettling because it makes me think people are falling for this idea of only the few "rich elite" blacks being able to do well abroad.

Mrs.Chima:
Ms. Darkskin sis....

Do me a favor....ask your boyfriend...what were the requirements of obtaining a student visa or do he know any Africans that obtained their American student visa from their home country and ask if they just came over with a dollar and nothing else?

Thanks. I got mofos thinking I am making up shit.

Why do you keep talking about student visas? I never commented on the student visa stuff because it wasn't what I was talking about in the first place.

In the original post, you simply claimed that an African student had to be from a "well to do" family to be schooling in America, which is simply false. End of.

ifihearam: @physics
A question for you

Who crowns a kinng?

The Oliha of Benin crowns the Oba. I don't know how other kings are crowned elsewhere.

Now a question for you

Who feeds you when you run out of grass??

ifihearam: Mr physics
It will shock you to know that I knw very much of what transpires in edo state,should in case you were not born then,pls ask your father he will tell you how igbins divided the palace chiefs and bought some to himself. The ridicule the oba has suffered from igbins is immeasurable.

Igbins has no regard for the oba and yet the gods have not struck him

The same Lucky Igbinedion was accused by some people of overpraising the Oba and tacitly elevating him above other traditional rulers from other parts of Edo state because of a speech he gave.

The Oba walked to the court as he did not because someone "blocked his car" but out of contempt for and displeasure at the action of calling him to court over the actions of someone else (a Benin chief made his own declarations of support for Lucky's rival and called for others to support that candidate for governor).

ACM10: I'm independent, so I have no political affiliation whatsoever. Neither do I view this event through tribal lens. I'm only trying to be as objective as possible. The Oba's action is disrespectful to the office of the president. He is the Oba of Benin and subject to the power of the presidency. Some protocols needs to be waived in this circumstance. Afterall, did the Portugese give Oba prior notice in the 15th century of their coming? Disrespect is not relative and I fault Oba on this one.

This is exactly what I mean by backwards reasoning. If this is how Nigerians think, then maybe there's really no hope.

The Portuguese did not barge in on anybody's palace in Benin. Maybe it's because they had more sense back then than some of us have today.

And if you barge in on somebody, how can you or others complain that they can only see you privately?

People are so eager to talk about a snub because of unnamed sources in the palace, but they conveniently and deliberately ignore where the Oba was willing to wait for the VP to be ready to talk to him in a statement from an actual identified source in the palace.

And for goodness sake, everybody in the country including the president is subject to the laws of the constitution and their state laws, which are written by individuals presumably elected by the people.

ifihearam: @bluetooth
It was Gabriel ibgins that dealt with the oba,they over rate this oba I swear,when igbenedion went to america and england to claim he was the oba,nothing happened to him,all he got was a suspension that never lasted,when the oba trekked from the court to his palace as a result of igbins blocking his car with his own ride,the oba or their yeye gods never struck.

Where are you getting this nonsense from?

Go back to chewing grass.

okeyxyz: there can be no loyalty without morality. In practice, you can not separate one from the other. You can define them separately, but they don't work separately. your loyalty must first be justified by a moral system.

After all the spin and verbal gymnastics in some recent posts we eventually arrive at some plain and simply stated truth.

If your moral instincts can tell you to be loyal to God (your creator) and obey a command to sacrifice your son rather than to disobey him, why won't those same moral instincts tell you to be loyal to your son (your flesh and blood) and disobey a command to sacrifice him?

ACM10: Haba Mr. Physics! Why single me out? BTW, I can't decipher your point. Can state it clearly?

Okay, I probably shouldn't have singled out your response. I was going to comment on Bluetooth's comments, but I realized that I don't really have a reason to take him seriously.

I have yet to understand why some Nigerians think that heads of state can barge in on someone, and, when that person doesn't greet them publicly (for whatever reason) instead of privately, the person that they barged in on is the one that committed some huge social gaffe or mistake. It makes no sense to me.

It's like you guys are all reasoning backwards. It all seems to be about ethnicity (Bini or non-Bini) or politics (PDP or ACN) rather than common sense.

ACM10: The Oba of Benin is a toast. Hope gods will come to his aid when the full tons of Federal might descends on him. He will discover that it's the politicians that grants him power. Can u imagine doing this to Abacha? This damage control is unnecessary. If u want to eat frog, eat the biggest frog and be proud to answer the name 'frog-eater'.

Did the palace officially make this claim? Or did "unnamed sources" make this claim? (I know you're fond of questioning the veracity of sources and their claims.)

Did Abacha ever visit the Oba of Benin? (No)

Was Abacha ever president of Nigeria? (No)

Abacha could have done anything to your whole family and you would have smiled and taken it on the chin, since apparently you respect Abacha so much.

I looked around a bit and I found a list somebody put up on imdb of their best African films:

http://www.imdb.com/list/bpkqAoIpqd0/

Try Xala by Ousmane Sembene and also Black Girl. I think they're still available on Netflix.

Maybe you should check out Senegalese cinema in general. I haven't watched anything besides these two films (which are both good), but it's supposed to be better overall than Nigeria/Ghana imitation Hollywood stuff.

Mrs.Chima:
Again...well to do means having the ability to but not wealthy. If the family does not work nor acquire money there is no way they can send their children to school. Real talk. My definitely of poor is BROKE and not able to provide the means for whatever it is needed.

Many of my classmates in college were African students and I am still friends with them today. I have helped with many of their issues so I know what I am talking about.

I got my sources directly from the HORSE'S MOUTH as I said before. I don't take chewed up bullshit like many chatters on Nairaland does about specific people, place, or thing.

As I said before, if you meant "Somalia poor", then you may have a point and I might actually agree.

But then again your point is kind of meaningless because every other group besides Africans that comes to America and puts their kids in school isn't "Somalia poor" as well and black Americans aren't experiencing Somalian levels of poverty either.

Truly and utterly broke people don't immigrate to America legally and most legal immigrants of all backgrounds - not just Africans - are not truly broke at all (and are not refugees or people being granted asylum, either).

Blyss: Could be, but because they've never documented their history, what they say is essentially hearsay and thus I say it's all up for debate.

If there was a 1600 AD Tiv document that made claims about where they were in 1200 BC, would you automatically believe it?

There's a book called Why Evolution Is True by Jerry Coyne.

I read it about a year ago. It's a very good book. I recommend the book to all posters here. It's good to debate these issues after familiarizing oneself with the evidence and the actual claims of the theory.

I don't have any interest in joining the debate, but I should mention that evolution is not necessarily inconsistent with religion at all - it's just inconsistent with certain religions that make specific claims that seem factually untrue.

DaRapture: He say, she say. What some Tiv dreamers claim to be is highly unlikely and there is evidence of that, and I once spoke about it while posting on another Nigerian forum years back. Now I do admit my mistake for stating my beliefs as facts in regard to the Tiv/Nok connection. But I believe its credible.

Ah, so you believe a Tiv/Nok connection is credible based on your own assertions, but you don't believe what the Tiv say about themselves because it's also an assertion.

Good job mutilating logic there buddy.

My belief is that the Tiv came from Cameroon in more recent times, but I don't ascribe some instant credibility to that belief for no reason. For all I know, they could have been somewhere even further east than Cameroon thousands of years ago.

shymmex: Great post by ROSSIKE - please ignore these ignorant buffoons..

Nigerians are not the smartest people out there - bunch of certificate thumpers with inferiority complex... No identity having bunch of negroids...

Interesting read!

So me and ekt bear are ignorant buffoons for such simple comments and questions?

It's not that serious.

ifihearam: The oba was well informed about the presidents visit because hours if not days,the secret service must have swept the palace and position where the president would seat

LMAO!

Confirmed goat.

.

Alxmyr: For anyone to come here and insinuate that GEJ was not invited to the palace or that the Oba was performng one ritual is baseless

GEJ WAS NOT INVITED TO THE PALACE. How can you not get that through your head?

Why are you goats so goat brained? When will you become full fledged humans?

Why was other people with GEJ refused entry into the palace? Its purely politics.

Those people have already been in the palace before to see the Oba, more than once! And they'll be back there again desperately seeking favor at some point in the future.

I once said somewhere, the Oba has shown over the years that he has issue with self-esteem. Otherwise, what was his grouse with Esama of Bini, Chief Gabriel Igbinedion.

You're a confirmed id1ot for this comment.

Gabriel Igbinedion so blatantly and flagrantly disrespected his superior in the hierarchy of the palace multiple times that in any other place in Nigeria the man would probably have been permanently and irrevocably banned from any kind of association with that group's traditional institution.

The fact that the Oba eventually forgave him speaks volumes.

lol, with all due respect

speech is not an invention