₦airaland Forum

The blind leading the blind.

SmoothCrim: I can answer any historical questions about all of Africa and also give context

Why am I not surprised? A criminal trying to hijack another person's thread.

Here's an assignment for you. Tell us why the Kwararafa/Kororofa state invaded the Hausa at times and what the exact context was for those wars and tell us where exactly in the Sudan the Jukun came from and at what time (or if not the Sudan, where exactly the Jukun were before reaching their present location and when).

I have my own information and theories, but this will be just the first question to see if you can make good on your statement above.

pleep: i'm sure u don't see Nigerians cooning around on ur sites do u?

It goes both ways.

Both sets of trolls (Nigerians and Ghanaians) have nothing better to do, apparently.

I don't know if there is a curse, but i've always wondered why black people have been the face of slavery since antiquity.

Other races were the face of slavery as well in antiquity. It's just that they grew out of that earlier than we did.

Why this is the case isn't totally clear to me. I think it may be more than one factor - maybe a sufficient amount of wealth among the nationals of a group was a factor, and also religious unity across ethnic/national lines.

Why was this moved to the culture section? What's cultural about this?

The OP is well known for starting ethnic or sectional topics and this is just one of many.

omo_to_dun: Good night @ ~royal~ and and ekt_bear. You fellows have conducted yourselves with civility;

lol

Tragic.

If I ever left an 11 year old brain dead through some accident, I don't know how I'd be able to live with myself.

*Grabs popcorn*

This thread is finally getting interesting, after 20 pages of junk.

SmoothCrim,

To my annoyance, I see that you've attempted to send me 2 PMs, which I cannot read since I've not yet replied to the email sent to me by NL.

Just to let you know, I have no intention of responding to presario84@yahoo.com, or ever reading whatever message you want or wanted to send.

Later Fred Cartwright.

Not to get off topic, but I've always believed that Stonehenge was nothing more than an old graveyard for the highest ranking members of some ancient chiefdom. All the speculation about it being astronomical and even the religious theories have always been mere conjecture to me. I never saw what all the fuss was about with regard to that structure. It's not visually impressive, not symmetric, not orderly (the look of the individual stone pieces), not particularly tall, etc., so what's the big deal? Because the stones were heavy? (As if hundreds of people together couldn't devise a way to lift them ).

The hype over Stonehenge is a pretty bad (or good, depending on how one looks at it) case of cultural propaganda in my opinion.

kokosheen: @PhysicsQED, whatever comments I've made is with respect to the topic, stop quoting 13th warrior to me - I know the history. You're defending moats/walls/ramparts (I don't know which one it will end up as, the way this thread is going) as being Mankind's largest ever construction (topic) and I'm correcting the OP and not spewing nonsense.

Can you stop with the blatant dishonesty already?

I never defended the OP and I don't care what the largest ever construction was. I was responding to false statements by you. You can't correct exaggerations or misleading statements by spewing out more buckets of falsehood.

And what the hell does 13th warrior have to do with anything? You're referencing some silly Hollywood movie while I'm talking about real people and events. Man, just grow up and take correction.

kokosheen: @PhysicsQED, your username sounds smart, so I expect you to be.

Can you leave personal attacks out of this? This is not about me or you, but about your statements being factually incorrect. I corrected you, that's all.

How come all these wonders were NEVER recorded by us blacks but through all those "by a European visitor" sightings.

First, in those black societies that were literate such as Islamic societies, details about those societies were sometimes written down. In those that were not literate, obviously they weren't. Simple. Now literacy in those times was mostly due to the diffusion of older systems of writing from dead civilizations to newer civilizations. This diffusion is mostly based on geography. For example, neither the English nor the French created a writing system. Their alphabet derives from a system of writing that came from Romans through the Greeks who got it from the Phoenicians, who got it as a modification of Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Now in the case of the Volga Vikings (Europeans), a visit from one Ahmad ibn Fadlan, an Arab, gives us the written records we have of what they (the Volga Vikings) were doing at the particular time that he visited. The writings of Ahmad ibn Rustah, a visiting Persian, also give us first hand info on what they were doing. This is a similar situation to what we have to rely on as far as some places in West Africa.

Second, the irony here is that if all the achievements or descriptions of places had been written down by blacks, some of them would be dismissed as mere lies by some people today both black and white. The fact that people from some of the groups that went on to degrade blacks and were so quick to paint some of the most negative pictures of blacks known are the ones actually being cited or quoted when these ancient places are talked about is actually somewhat useful as far as making the positive claims and positive descriptions seem more objective.

you should know by now that the unit of measure in those "ol-days" are much smaller than what we use today. U're repping physics, 300 cubits used for Noah's ark is how many meters now and THAT vessel is supposed to be massive to hold 2 of every animal existing.

You didn't understand my comment.

What I mean is that the Europeans, both back then and now (the archaeologists), gave a much larger height for the ramparts than the nonsense you cooked up. The units of measure they gave then and now are known and understood. Stop cooking up weird excuses and just admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.

Goes to show how everything is relative to its time. Yes, the benin wall might have been massive to the people that constructed it, but compared to the wall of China, the tin na rabbit fence na.

I never compared it to the great wall of China and neither did any African. That's purely the work of modern oyibos who are trying to emphasize (and not doing a good job at it, I might add), the huge amount of material that needed to be moved to construct the ramparts. It's not of any concern to me how they stand in relation to the great wall of China since I never made any comparison.

Also, the wall was made of clay & sticks abi? that tells so much about the type of embankment and enemies they were fighting against. That wall type is so dark ages that the British invaders would have been like LOL.

It wasn't a wall, but a series of ramparts. It's a different thing from what we would really call a wall and serves a distinct purpose. I put wall in quotes because of that and that's why I'm a bit annoyed at all the mentions of "walls". It's misleading. A rampart may be defined as a "wall", but when one calls them walls, it gives a misleading impression on what to expect or on what they would have looked like.

The ramparts were not particularly relevant to the British invasion for the simple fact that the British had native African guides and informants that informed them of how to go to straight into Benin.

Kobojunkie: @Kokosheen, see what I mean? Na so the weaving they begin ooo . . . I minute na if statements, the next step na to tell us say na true! ROFLMAO!!

I tell you what, if you give these people pen, dem go re-write African history well well, and blame it all on the whiteman. Oh wait!! That is already the case . . . lol

I'm just stating my opinion, not trying to force you to accept it as a fact. Look at the great mosque of Djenne - the largest single adobe building in the world. Do you think that they wouldn't have built it of stone if that were really the optimal building material for them? They built it according to their circumstances.

The Nupe capital of Raba was described as a large and extensive city by a European visitor, but what remains of the precolonial parts of that city today? Little to nothing.

I was just saying that cities and ruins of cities in stone would be seen frequently in West Africa if that were really the optimal building material for the area. It's my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Kobojunkie: Wait now . . . later we go read say Africans built statues higher than that of Nebuchadnezzar, all over their villages but the white man did not like having large images of blackmen in existence and so destroyed them all with dynamite.

If there was stone in plentiful amounts everywhere, and if it could keep rooms insulated like earth could, several parts of West Africa would have structures like the Nalatale ruins, the Khami ruins, or great Zimbabwe remaining today. Those were not destroyed by dynamite, they were built by Africans, and everyone can see much of what's left of them today - thus it makes sense to mention them extensively and emphasize them. Not so for the Benin walls, in my opinion.

SmoothCrim: What I have explained is written in history no point trying to change it centuries after the fact. That you're too dumb and lazy to try and find out the context of these kinds of things is the only problem here. I don't have anymore time for you today clown Later.

lol, it took you more than 10 minutes just to respond with that lame comeback?

Just go and read, dumbass. Bye.

kokosheen: FYI, I have read about the benin wall and it was at most 4 feet high and didn't even go round the present benin town.

This is false.

The "walls" being referred to are a series of connected ramparts and they reached quite a tall height in several places - much more than 4 feet. The entire network of ramparts extends over an area much wider than the present Benin city, by the way.

3) How can a British expedition burn down the wall! Expedition that cannot be more than a 100 men burn down Mankind's largest ever construction. Haba!!

The expedition was more than 100 men, and they didn't burn down the "wall". The ramparts deteriorated gradually from not being kept up and from being used for building material.

OP, I know its good to project your town and ancestry (bla bla bla bla)

The OP is not a Benin person, but Igbo (so he did not start the thread to promote his town/ancestry from available information).

No Benin person has started a topic on this wall on this forum at any point.

I respect the achievements of my ancestors, but I don't see the point of heavily emphasizing or bragging about something which did not really survive well into the present for everybody to see and which we failed to maintain or preserve.

SmoothCrim: Oyo was a joke and viewed as such that is why it was invaded at its heart numerous times. I will say they viewed it as a joke but, in alliance with Dahomey and neighboring Akan states they feared it.

Read that over and over and read history and you will understand

lol @ this.

Like I said, history's already been written, and those who aren't lazy and fake experts already know what was said about Oyo and Oyo specifically both by Asante and others, so there's no point trying to deny it centuries after the fact. That you're too dumb and lazy to try and find out about these kinds of things is the only problem here.

I don't have anymore time for you today charlie. Later.

SmoothCrim,

Go back to reading and learning, and stop trying to push your delusions onto other people while pretending to be an expert. It's funny that you think the Asante viewed Oyo as "a joke" when there is direct written evidence to the contrary from back in those days. Your refusal to read and learn about stuff before commenting is the basis for this skewed perception of things, but there's nothing I can do to help you out because at the end of the day, you're still going to be a dumbass. It's just in your character.

SmoothCrim: You can't teach a fool even when it is so blatant. Go cry your tears


A physics nerd will always be a physics nerd and never be able to understand historical context. Without understanding the Akyem led Akan alliance role in the battle you will never understand it


Go back to Newton and Bohr and stay away from history

Now you're running to "physics nerd" jokes?

Because you didn't know what the Asante had already admitted to themselves before arguing blindly about it for several pages?

A criminal will always be a criminal - dishonest and st[i]u[/i]pid.

Nothing much you can do about that.

SmoothCrim: Hey you have changed your tone now and are saying what I was saying but, adding a few of your stuff.

No. I haven't changed anything you dumbass. I was the one who brought up the battle of Atakpame, and ANYONE can find out that that was a conflict between an Asante force and a joint Dahomey-Oyo force, when they look at any source, even a source as unreliable as wikipedia. I mentioned that in the only conflict recorded between Asante and Oyo, Oyo put Asante in check which is factually true. I never said outright that there was a one on one battle between Oyo and Asante and only a fool would claim that I did. You read into my posts as if that was what I was claiming when I was never stating that it was a one on one battle to begin with. Asante sent out a force, and Dahomey and Oyo sent out a force to check them, but it is factually correct to say that Oyo put them in check, especially seeing as how they (Asante) admitted that fear of Oyo was what kept them from regrouping and simply crushing the Dahomians after their loss.

Prior to this debate you presented it as them vs. Oyo one on one!

No, See above, dummy. Even in the thread somebody had already posted an excerpt of the wiki article claiming that it was an Asante vs. Dahomey+Oyo battle even before you started talking about it being 2 on 1.

I was never concerned with whether it was Oyo alone vs. Asante or Oyo + Dahomey, as that was irrelevant to my point about fear, but with pointing out that Asante was not fighting another battle at the time.

Then it was Dahomey vs them with the help of Oyo...(2vs1) now you admit it was Akan allies which had joined up together to invite Dahomey and Oyo! Good you are learning. grin grin grin grin grin

You dumbass! I knew this from the start, but it's immaterial to and irrelevant to my point about Asante being scared of further conflict with Oyo.

As I said before, anyone who actually reads the sources would already know that Dahomey was reached out to and that this was the genesis of the issue with Asante.

So now the debate is if they were apprehensive of Oyo?! Good I am glad we have made it this far grin grin grin grin grin

Here is me finishing you off. Read this carefully. They were NOT apprehensive of Oyo to the extent of fearing a one on one battle with the Oyo(something they never fought). They were apprehensive of the Oyo getting involved in what they viewed as their internal affairs and were worried of an alliance between the Akan groups, Oyo and Dahomey! They were 100 percent Apprehensive of that! Only a fool would deny that. It is equivalent of the West today being apprehensive of a war with Syria if Russia and China are involved. I have gone back to read the sources fully and I will knock you out with this blow...

Don't you know that there exists a written description of the battle of Atakpame that they lost that came directly from the Asante themselves and which also has their own explanation of why they didn't get revenge on Dahomey right after losing??!!

Of course you don't! Because you're a fake historian.

And guess what their reason for not pursuing further was?

Fear of Oyo, which they knew was Dahomey's protector. They even stated that they had enough strength to invade and defeat Dahomey (which is absolutely correct by the way), but were apprehensive of conflict with Dahomey's protector, Oyo.

Go and read up and shut the fvck up you clown.

SmoothCrim: I was trolling while giving a serious history lesson... Once again, they were apprehensive of Akan allies joining with Oyo AND Dahomey... Which is exactly what happened... 6 vs 1.. I should be charging for this lesson

You're a dumbass and a fake scholar.

They went out and attacked Dahomey (to defeat the Akan allies' new external ally as a preemptive move) and lost and were apprehensive of getting revenge on Dahomey at that particular time afterward out of fear of Oyo. That's the apprehension I was referring to and it's the reality. If you weren't too lazy to actually try and find out about this stuff, there would never have been serious disagreement about this to begin with. You foolishly thought that the apprehension about Oyo that I was referring to was apprehension over a potential alliance with the Akan allies because you don't know anything to begin with.

Just keep your delusions to yourself, and stop trying to force them on people who already know better and have actually bothered to read up on this stuff.

SmoothCrim: Dumbass! Call me SIR!

Sir Dumbass of Ghana,

That was a dumb comeback.

SmoothCrim: the business is love making...but, with a forest there no sane man will go in that district

Of course "the business" is love making - that's obvious. But it's still a dumb comeback, dumbass.

SmoothCrim: Your mothers cooch is so hairy that it will take 1000 years to begin the business if you know what I mean.

"So hairy that it will take 1000 years to begin the business"

What kind of dumb comeback is that?

SmoothCrim: You must be looking at the fact that I schooled you yesterday.

For the one millionth time, you don't even understand that direct written evidence already exists confirming what I was telling you - that Asante was apprehensive of war with Oyo, period. That you're not well read enough to have come across it already is your problem.

All of this other crap from you is just dishonesty. At one point you were claiming to be a Nigerian though (here), so I really shouldn't have expected anything other than dishonesty from you here. Don't know why I bothered.

Ileke-IdI:

Don't be shocked.

I was invited.

SmoothCrim: WHere is the physics nerd!!

In ya mama's cooch.

SmoothCrim: I have read all those documents before thus did not need to read it again...

lmao

The dishonesty is never ending. Trust me, if you had read as much you pretend to have read, we would never have had this drawn out discussion to begin with.

I've wasted enough time on you. Later charlie.

Edit: lol, I just saw a thread where you falsely claimed to be a Nigerian in order to attempt to sound unbiased: https://www.nairaland.com/950471/ewe-people-ghana-same-yoruba/2#11230053

(And you were quoted by Obalufon after posting it, so don't go back and modify it.)

So the dishonesty didn't even start on this thread. It's an ongoing problem for you. Who knows what else you lied about. You could actually be Akan and not a "neutral" as you claimed (yet you were accusing me of being Yoruba, which anyone can see is not the case from my post history).

Try to be more a honest person in the future charlie.

SmoothCrim: The way I debated you was to teach you to look into stuff... I could have simply given you all the info but chose the slow approach... In the end I think you understand west africa better

^^^^

The same dishonesty I was talking about.

I gave you the info and you just rejected it and couldn't be bothered to look it up and get confirmation because you were trying to block out the truth. At one point you even accused me of using a wikipedia article, derided the idea of that, and then went on to give me a link to a wikipedia article a few posts later.

SmoothCrim: Listen I know you have learned a lot.

Relax!

Of course. I've learned not to drag out an argument with a dishonest person.

That's definitely an important lesson.

SmoothCrim: False False False Go ask any historian worth their salt(an not the modern frauds faking history) and they will say exactly what I have been saying.

No. Any historian then or now worth their salt would tell you that Oyo's location was a source of horses for cavalry and an area that was free of the tsetse fly that carried trypanosomiasis, which allowed them to effectively use the horses without them dying off quickly.

If there were huge problems caused by its location, they were not enough of a problem for Oyo until Oyo became embroiled in a civil war.

On Oyo and Asante, it's a waste of time repeating myself, so I'll just leave you to believe in whatever suits you.