₦airaland Forum

ifihearam: He has been warned of the dangers ahead and the anger of the president hence this apologetic publication. I trust presido,he will still deal with the oba one way or the other. Apparently those close to him must have warned him,anyways let's see how the drama unfolds. IMO the oba phuckt up big time.

^^^^
Like I said, goats. Not humans.

After reading this, the negative comments in that "Oba Of Bini Refused GEJ In His Palace" thread look like they all came from goats (you know yourselves) and not human beings.

Like I said and like other people have said, there was never any controversy.

ifihearam: You are just a fool with no sense of reasoning. Where have you ever seen a president waiting for aguest before,what the oba did was wrong and if care is not take we shall sonn deal with him. Little wonder he ws suspended by onyerebgulem in 1999. What did you people do.

"The Oba was quietly opposed to Abacha's misrule and he had treated Anthony Onyearugbulem as if he were an upstart. When Onyearugbulem's wife later lost her pregnancy in the course of the fight, it was widely alleged that the Oba's juju was still potent. The matter was that serious." - Reuben Abati (who, like you, also works for GEJ)

Onyearugbulem died at the age of 47 under unclear circumstances in a hotel in Kaduna.

Nobody had to do anything. Fate dealt him a sh1tty card that just happened to match his sh1tty performance as one of Abacha's military administrators.

To qualify the above post, what I really mean is that very strong armor has been around for a long time whether steel plate or not steel, but guns only became more popular as their actual power and quality improved. They weren't that great to start with, weren't really decisive in battle after improving somewhat a while after that, but were later improved by gun smiths to become the unstoppable force we know them as today. This is my perspective, but I am interested in reading alternate or contrary views.

I think guns were adopted for reasons of ease of use, sheer destructive power, their ability to intimidate enemies, and the simple training required to utilize them, not because of the increasing strength of armor.

Also, guns did not automatically mean easy victory: http://books.google.com/books?id=AVZDHeVEeywC&pg=PA114 (read to about 116)

Now machine guns and rocket artillery vs. swords, spears, and bows did mean easy victory. That's definitely true.

pleep: Comparable to Steel plate armor? certainly. Chinese armor was not particularly unique or advanced for the time, where as western armor was. The Chinese used the same lamellar and scale armor used trough out Eurasia. This could be easily pierced by a crossbow. On top of this, china wasn't dominated by a warrior class, like Europe or Japan.

The biggest reason heavy armor was such a factor in Europe was plate armored knights. Wealthy semi-nobility, who could afford to fight in the heaviest protection available. My theory that elite armored soldiers = adaptation of guns is supported by the story of Japans adoption of firearms to counter the samurai.

I really doubt that this is correct.

There's a book called Chinese clay figures: Prolegomena on the history of defensive armor, Part 1 by Berthold Laufer

I think you should read some of it. I think it gives a more realistic perspective on armor in Asia.

Here are links to the book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=TH0LAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA180

http://books.google.com/books?id=TH0LAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA189

On Japan vs. China, China was dominated by the Mongols around the general time that you're talking about. The same Mongols were trouncing the Japanese at [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bun%27ei]the battle of Bun'ei[/url] but when they returned to their ships to regroup, they got hit by a typhoon and the Japanese got lucky. The Japanese were not the only warriors around or anything and I'm not sure that their best soldiers at that time would have necessarily defeated China's best soldiers or the best Mongol soldiers..

He said at a rally where he addressed thousands of youths and market women as well as other members and leaders of the ACN who followed him to the PDP that Airhiavbere had agreed to establish a University of Science and Technology in the local government when voted into office.

borrowed so much that Edo sons and daughters would be perpetually mortgaged.

Hmmm. . .

pleep: Because in Europe armies had to deal with fully armored knights that could only be stopped by guns, not so in China.

Can you back this up?

From the little I've read on Chinese armor, I don't think they were lacking in strong/comparable defense at all.

pleep: As far as i know the first time cannons were used south of the Sahara was in the 15 hundreds when forces from Morocco destroyed the Mali empire. Accounts of this battle are rare, but from what i read (don't recall the source) the two armies met on flat terrain, the berbers dispite being hugely out numbered had many cannons, which they began firing at the Malien forces. The entire army, which was mainly cavalry, panicked and routed.

Can you back this claim up as well?

This is the wiki claim:

"Mansa Mahmud IV

Mansa Mahmud IV (also known as Mansa Mamadou III, Mali Mansa Mamadou and Niani Mansa Mamadou) was the last emperor of Manden according to the Tarikh al-Sudan. It states that he launched an attack on the city of Djenné in 1599 with Fulani allies hoping to take advantage of Songhai’s defeat.[65] Moroccan fusiliers, deployed from Timbuktu, met them in battle exposing Mali to the same technology (firearms) that had destroyed Songhai. Despite heavy losses, the mansa’s army was not deterred and nearly carried the day.[65] However, the army inside Djenné intervened forcing Mansa Mahmud IV and his army to retreat to Kangaba.[61]

Collapse

The mansa’s defeat actually won Manden the respect of Morocco and may have saved it from Songhai’s fate. It would be the Mandinka themselves that would cause the final destruction of the empire. Around 1610, Mahmud IV died. Oral tradition states that he had three sons who fought over Manden's remains. No single person ever ruled Manden after Mahmud IV's death, resulting in the end of the Mali Empire.[66]

Manden Divided

The old core of the empire was divided into three spheres of influence. Kangaba, the de facto capital of Manden since the time of the last emperor, became the capital of the northern sphere. The Joma area, governed from Siguiri, controlled the central region, which encompassed Niani. Hamana or Amana, southwest of Joma, became the southern sphere with its capital at Kouroussa in modern Guinea.[66] Each ruler used the title of mansa, but their authority only extended as far as their own sphere of influence. Despite this disunity in the realm, the realm remained under Mandinka control into the mid-17th century. The three states warred on each other as much if not more than they did against outsiders, but rivalries generally stopped when faced with invasion. This trend would continue into colonial times against Tukulor enemies from the west.[67]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire#Collapse

The invasion and defeat of Songhai is probably what you were thinking of since the brief descriptions of the defeat of Songhai by the Moroccans matches up more with your description.

"Viewing this topic: tpia@, tpia, tpia. and 5 guest(s)"

lol

pro01: and especially the effluvium spewed by bini bigots on this thread has made me lose all respect for the man and the stale tradition he represents.

Dude, you're just not honest.

All throughout this thread attacks were pouring in on the Oba and on the Bini people and some people - and some of them were not even Bini - were countering back. I looked through this thread and tried to find "Bini bigots", but in each instance I saw them attacking people who had thrown the first punch and even those Binis who weren't actually countering others didn't make bigoted statements.

Who really cares whether you respect the tradition or the man? Who are you exactly? Nobody.

No one is under the impression that any kings possess the powers they had in pre-colonial Nigeria but it is just factually incorrect to spew the crap you were spewing about fictitious depositions based on naive assumptions. It is not correct to assert that "constituted authority" of the state has some kind of all encompassing power that spills over into issues that are not within its necessarily limited domain. People's liberties and culture are not just manhandled anyhow based on the whims of whatever politician is currently in power - not for my people, anyway.

The PDP delegation has been there (the palace) before and they made the mistake of trying to use the Oba's palace as a "soapbox" in order to "shine" when they were given a chance to speak and there's no doubt some of them will be back there again right before the election seeking favor or endorsement so I don't know why you're crying more than the "bereaved" over a non-issue.

I think that "tribalism" and ethnic bias are one of the reasons Africa remains backward and unstable - people can't even analyze such a simple interaction without putting their ethnic shades on. Everything becomes about "Bini" or "non-Bini" as if that were really even relevant to the story, and people try to score cheap shots by attacking other people's heritage or culture over non-issues and imagined controversies.

lol, is this a religious section or a philosophy section?

Anyway, the "faster than light" thing was a false alarm.

http://news.sky.com/story/928517/faster-than-light-or-just-a-faulty-cable

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17139635

http://www.voanews.com/content/leader-of-controversial-faster-than-light-physics-experiments-resigns-146020965/180601.html

If people here are really interested in relativity and cosmology, why not just study it directly? There are books out there. . .

FXKing2012, I hope that you are not attempting to tie "civilization" to the actual religious doctrines of Christianity and Islam.

If this is about the diffusion of more advanced technology from a place which is more technologically advanced at the time to another place which is generally less technologically advanced at that time, I don't see what Christianity or Islam or other foreign religions would necessarily have to do with it.

Try and think about why the Bedouin were not technologically advanced but the Persians were even after both became Muslim, or why the Greeks were advanced long before other European groups and before the existence of Christianity and you'll see that technological advancement is independent of religion except where that religion explicitly promotes technology, innovation, material creativity, etc.

FXKing2012: You are in deed one big joke, so the African saw no need to invent anything other than bow, arrow and clubs. The environment was so perfect that there was no need to invent (lol). You must be a stand-up comic!

Why are you under the impression that it was too hot?

Africans lived in houses built out of earth (aka "adobe" houses) specifically as a means of insulation against heat transfer. This includes Egypt.

Torres is a good player, but I followed the Euro (although I didn't see the qualifiers) and he was almost insignificant to Spain. But since he was the most qualified for the award on a technical basis it was given to him. I guess no one can really complain about that.

I think the focus of this thread seems to be more about cultural brainwashing rather than religious.

I'm not saying there aren't many other problems affecting Africa, several of which have higher priority than this issue, but an inferiority complex to foreign cultures and their creeds is definitely something that needs to be examined.

fagamite: He was a former Minister of Abuja Federal Capital Territory and one of the very few Nigerian politicians that can actually write and put thoughts to paper . . . He is a big deal!!!

Okay. Understood. So what happened to his corruption case?

Was it thrown out or dismissed?

Demdem2: i never said the Oba cant be deposed,

And you believe that?

If the Oba will be deposed it can't and won't be by the freaking Nigerian government.

ifihearam: @demdem
Gej has nothing against the oba u hear
Pls be well informed that the oba has been suspended before when onyerbgulem was the military administrator of edo state,so don't think he is indispensable u hear?

Why do people keep peddling this lie?

Onyearugbulem suspended the Oba from the chairmanship of the council of traditional rulers on the basis of rumors that the Oba preferred Lucky Imasuen to Lucky Igbinedion as a candidate for governor and was therefore interfering in the politics of the state. He had no authority to suspend the Oba from being Oba and didn't even try it.

Onyearugbulem died in a hotel at the age of 47 under unclear circumstances. The guy was a dunce.

AjanleKoko: You guys are all arguing blindly.
If you want to serve Sango, is anybody stopping you? Go and worship the ancestral gods, you and your families, and let's see you get inspired to build nuclear weapons and microchips

lol, you think the people who build nuclear weapons and microchips are mostly Christians or Muslims?

I don't know what people see in El Rufai. What's the source of the hype?

pro01: I could be murderous when any ho.m.o.s.e.xu.al buffoon hangs around me longer than a second. You're obviously a fa.g.g.o.t, since you go around peeping into male profiles to see whose handsome face you can self-service your small prick over.

Now scamper off, and cover that your leaking a.n.u.s. while at it Filthy fa.g.g.ot.

lol @ this salty gremlin.

I clicked on your profile to look at your posts and instead I saw an unexpected horrific sight and I decided to comment on it. Now you're desperately clinging to lame g.a.y jokes because you've been shown to be a fool.

Go back to searching the web looking for ugly, busted up "shorties" to talk to and leave issues requiring a human brain to discuss to actual humans.

pro01: Am I supposed to respond to this heap of exc.rem.e.n.t? Sorry, I can't be dagged into an argument with a ho.m.ose.xu.al dimwit like you. You're a failed experiment.

What's wrong? No more paragraphs of bullsh1t to spew?

I knew a goat like you would scamper away once you were confronted about your nonsense.

I just expressed my views on your bullsh1t. I don't care to get dragged into a longer argument with a fool like you anyway because it's a waste of time.

Beaf: Really?
Who pays the person that pays those kings?

First, the people pay the person that pays those kings, not the president. The president's assets are probably nowhere near enough to pay every traditional ruler in Nigeria.

Second, not every traditional institution's existence or the retention of a particular individual as head of that institution is based on whether money is accruing to that king.

pro01: You are not quite as bright as your user name suggests. What has being "old enough to be his father" got to do with keeping the President and Commander-in-Chief waiting? I thought senility was a problem associated with old age, but you are obviously quite senile even at your tender age. You slimy pretenders in this country (especially a particular ethnic group) always find it convenient to play the age card as justification for misbehaving. I'll have none of that nonsense.

If you have any iota of learning and exposure, you would know that it is against all norms of protocol and civility for anyone - be he older than the biblical Methuselah - to keep the president waiting. No matter how one hates GEJ's person, you must recognise that by virtue of his position, he is the custodian of Nigeria's sovereignty and so must necessarily enjoy certain courtesies and privileges. Age has NOTHING to do with anything in that regard. I bet you're too brain-damaged by your ill-advised foray into physics to understand these notions.

As for the president being able to depose the Oba of Benin, common, don't be so silly. We know the law vests that power in the governor (although I'm sure you didn't know that). But we also know that, in a Third World 'democracy like Nigeria, the president can intimidate and arm-twist the governor to do what he says. . .lest he gets impeached by extra-legal means. We know how good Obasanjo was in using such strong-arm tactics to achieve his purposes (ask Dariye, Alamieyeseigha, Fayose, etc.). Again I say, GEJ is too modest for my liking. The Oba of Benin would NOT dare try that nonsense with a President Obasanjo. Everyone knows that.

I knew this goat would respond and prove his goat ancestry.

For someone who thinks he can assess my brightness apparently you're not bright enough to think about all the crap you've been spewing on this thread and whether it makes sense.

First, the "President and Commander-in-Chief" should be seen as a servant of the people not "the MOST IMPORTANT individual in the land" as you claimed. You already have kings and yet you want to make a public officer that should be humble (in an ideal world) into something more than what he is. He's not someone who is above social norms such as waiting for those who are receiving him to be ready to receive him when he drops in on them. That you're dumb enough to think keeping a visitor that you didn't invite waiting before greeting them is some sort of offense, and to compound that stupidity by suggesting that - if it actually were an offense - it would be something that somebody could or should be sanctioned for or removed from their position for is amazing.

Second, you assumed, like the dumb goat that you are you that someone was "using GEJ to shine" as if GEJ is suddenly the epitome of clout by virtue of winning an election. If anything, politicians try to use traditional rulers to "shine" more than vice versa.

And that you think that someone decades older than a government official can't keep that government official waiting before greeting him when that government official drops in is just your opinion - it's not some standard of social behavior and it's not necessarily the cultural norm for every ethnic group or community everywhere. I don't know what "particular ethnic group" you think are "slimy pretenders", but if that ethnic group's customs and social norms happen to disagree with your opinion that doesn't mean anything since your opinion is only profoundly important to you.

Third, the fact that you referred to "strong-arm tactics" and "extra-legal" means shows that you're a savage, like your master OBJ. Try to understand that actual civilized people are not interested in "extra-legal" means because they respect the law.

Fourth, I don't give a sh1t about what you fools here think would or would not have happened to OBJ based on your over bloated sense of his worth or swagger.

Fifth, no the governor cannot actually depose the Oba of Benin you fvcking dumbass. The fact that you think any outsider can try and depose him shows your daftness. The Oba is technically not above the law (such as those laws relating to actual crimes), but the particulars of his traditional institution are not dictated by the whims of governors. If some political dunce were to declare such a thing, it would have no effect whatsoever on what the position of the Oba actually was. That your goat brain can't comprehend that the declarations of over bloated politicians cannot affect the actual position of the Oba within his own traditional institution and among his own people is mind boggling. And are you actually stupid enough to believe that anyone who currently holds the Oba of Benin as his Oba would stop doing so because some politician claimed "oh yeah, by the way, he was deposed".

Sixth, each state has its own traditional rulers law. There is nothing in the nation's constitution granting a governor the power to remove a monarch. When you can prove that a governor in Edo state even has the legal authority - never mind that the declaration would not be adhered to - as indicated by Edo state's relevant traditional rulers law, to depose the Oba of Benin, maybe I'll take you seriously.

The Traditional Rulers and Chiefs Edict of 1979 of Bendel state is the basis of the laws relating to traditional rulers in the current Edo state and it specifies the protocol for matters relating to traditional rulers. When you can prove that this document implies that a governor can depose the Oba of Benin at will (never mind that such a governor could easily be sued repeatedly and have his plan forestalled and then overturned by the courts), maybe you'll have a point.

You sir, remain a dumbass.

pro01: Lol. Your sanity is seriously in doubt. I shouldn't be bragging here about how 'fine' I am - as the few shorties on here who know me would readily testify. But then, I'd prefer to be considered 'ugly' by a f.a.g.g.o.t like you because I'm allergic to g.a.y admiration.

Dude, your face is fvcked up. I understand why you're angry though. Every time you look in the mirror, you have to come to terms with what you see.

I bet those "shorties" are just as fvcked up looking as you.

Where is that loser pro01?

I just looked at your profile. Dude you're an ugly motherfvcker. You look like a fvcking turtle with shades on. No wonder you're so angry. Life dealt with your face so now you come online to lash out at others over things you know nothing about.

One_Naira: A real life example would be this picture
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3qpe1yGpF1qga40to1_500.jpg
This is a picture of Bini and or Igbo women in the 1500s

This pictures has been moved and tumbled so many times, titled changed in different blogs till the point noone in this century is aware what ethnicity the women in the pictures are. So far we've seen both Igbo and Bini claiming them as their own. Does that make it accurate? might or might not. The women might not even be from either of the groups, whom knows they might not even be Nigerians.

That picture was discussed a long time ago:

https://www.nairaland.com/465853/igbo-women-social-status/4#8980081

They are neither Igbo nor Bini. They are from Somorika, Akoko Edo, Edo state, Nigeria.

Just in case you were wondering.

Reading through this thread convinces me that a lot of Nigerians are just daft and can't see beyond ethnicity.

There is no controversy here whatsoever but the bias of some people keeps them from seeing that.

GEJ went to the palace and he met with the Oba of Benin privately after the Oba was ready to receive him. That's what happened.

Ufeolorun: He won't try this with Baba for sure

"Baba" is nothing.

pro01: Uncivilised people often take one's gentleness and modesty as a sign of weakness. Sometimes I wonder whether President Jonathan realises how much power he has at his disposal - particularly in a Third World 'democracy' like Nigeria's.

I can imagine the Oba of Benin trying such nonsense with a President Olusegun Obasanjo. He would be deposed in a matter of days. . .and arrested by the EFCC for 'money laundering', and while dealing with that the SSS would be on his case for 'sedition'. . .lol.

I swear to God most Nigerians are animals and they deserve to be treated as such. When you're modest and humble, they look down on you and 'use you to shine' as they say in the local parlance. They prefer to be dealt with an iron hand and strong arm. Nonsense.

What's wrong with you people?

Did the Oba of Benin invite GEJ there? No.

Did they have some prior agreement to do a photo-op and you just happen to be the only person that knows about it?

What's uncivilized about someone, who apart from being a well respected monarch, is also old enough to be GEJ's father, keeping him waiting before meeting him privately?

What a fvcking dumbass. Funny that you think that anyone can "use GEJ to shine" by keeping him waiting. Is GEJ the standard by which clout is measured nowadays?

And lol @ thinking the Oba of Benin can be "deposed" by a president. Where do you clowns get this sh1t from?

Beaf: Lol! Oshiomole might have done well, but it is the overwhelming opinion that General Airhiavbere is head and shoulders beyond Oshiomole both intellectually in in vision. Edo state deserves excellence.

Did you carry out some kind of survey?

The fact that someone could not readily provide evidence to back his assertion does not mean that he is making a fallacious claim or that the proof does not exist.

Of course. But it's another thing to try to force others to accept what you refuse to support. Some of those who end up disagreeing with and debating with Dede1 don't always have anything against him or have any intention of trying to make him look dishonest. I actually consider many of his posts informative.

ACM10: I believe that next generation will be quoting our comments on Nairaland as fact, just the way some posters here are quoting articles on nigerdeltacongress and dawodu at present.

I only posted that link because it was hosted on that particular site. If it had been posted at gamji.com or kwenu.com, I would have still posted the quote and the relevant link. I don't care much about these kinds of sites although they're sometimes useful. I also didn't really care about the article, the writer, or his overall point in the article in this instance. I only wanted to see if anyone could contradict his claim about Chief Ezerioha and other independents. By the way, anyone can look up that writer (Ben Lawrence) and read or skim through his other articles to see where his bias or favor, if any, actually lies with regard to the Civil War. It would probably surprise anyone who wanted to group him Udo Udoma.