₦airaland Forum

TalkIslam:
Do you want to Learn or Criticize?

Is asking questions not a part of learning?
Please educate us more on these:

Please answer these TRUTHFULLY:
1. Why did your prophet Mohamed attack Khaybar?
2. Did he lead an expedition to Khaybar or was it Khaybar that went against him?

TalkIslam:
WHAT JIHAD IS?

1. The Arabic word "jihad" is often translated as "holy war," but in a purely linguistic sense, the word " jihad" means struggling or striving.
2. The arabic word for war is: "al-harb".
3. In a religious sense, as described by the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s), "jihad" has many meanings. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslims or believer, as well as working to inform people about the faith of Islam.
4. If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.
5. Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.
6. In case military action appears necessary, not everyone can declare jihad. The religious military campaign has to be declared by a proper authority, advised by scholars, who say the religion and people are under threat and violence is imperative to defend them. The concept of "just war" is very important.
7. The concept of jihad has been hijacked by many political and religious groups over the ages in a bid to justify various forms of violence. In most cases, Islamic splinter groups invoked jihad to fight against the established Islamic order. Scholars say this misuse of jihad contradicts Islam.
8. Examples of sanctioned military jihad include the Muslims' defensive battles against the Crusaders in medieval times, and before that some responses by Muslims against Byzantine and Persian attacks during the period of the early Islamic conquests.

WHAT JIHAD IS NOT?

1. Jihad is not a violent concept.
2. Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.
3. Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.
4. Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications

Peace!

Please answer these TRUTHFULLY:
1. Why did your prophet Mohamed attack Khaybar?
2. Did he lead an expedition to Khaybar or was it Khaybar that went against him?

Haroun13
Yes, like giving them rights to inheritance


Like I said, I have not denied their "civilization". But to say all their practices were civilized is fallacious. I showed some of their practices, which even you women would frown at. So, why the fuss?


Philip K Hitti
"...The Quraysh - particularly its Umayyad clan - custodians of the Kaabah and the Zamzam, controllers of the caravan trade, and oligarchic masters of the city, had special reasons for resistance (to Muhammed). The new preaching might jeopardize pilgrimage to the Kaabah, next to trade their main source of income. Moreover, the once-poor orphan was introducing such dangerous economic doctrines as the rightful claim of beggars and the destitute to a share in the wealth of the rich. Additionally he (Muhammed) advocated a dangerous doctrine, one that would substitute faith for blood as the social bond of community life. If "the believers are naught but brothers" (Quran, 49:10) was acted upon, the entire family, clan, and tribal unity would be undermined and replaced by religious unity..." (Islam - A Way of Life)

Now coming to physical attacks on the Muslims.

Among the victims of persecution were: Bilal, the Ethiopian slave of Umayya bin Khalaf. His master and other idolaters tortured him in the savage glare of the sun of Makka, and they tortured him beyond the limits of human endurance. But he was fortified by inner sources of strength and courage which never failed him. Love of Allah and love of His messenger made it possible for him to endure torture with cheer. Abu Bakr brought deliverance to Bilal from torture when he bought him from his master, and set him free. When the Apostle of God and his followers migrated to Medina, he appointed Bilal the first Muezzin of Islam. His rich and powerful voice rang through the air of Medina with the shout of "Allah-o-Akbar" (=Mighty is the Lord). In later years, when the conquest of the peninsula was completed, the Apostle appointed Bilal his secretary of treasury.
Khabab ibn el-Arat. He was a young man of 20 when he accepted Islam. He was a client of Bani Zuhra. The Quraysh tortured him day after day until the time came when he migrated to Medina with the Prophet of Islam. Suhaib ibn Sinan. Suhaib came to Makka as a slave. When he became a Muslim, his master beat him up brutally, but could not break his spirit.
Abu Fukaiha, the slave of Safwan bin Umayya. He accepted Islam at the same time as Bilal. Like Bilal, he was also dragged on hot sand by his master with a rope tied to his feet. Abu Bakr bought him and emancipated him. He migrated to Medina but died before the battle of Badr. Lubina was a female slave of Bani Mumil bin Habib. Amin Dawidar writes in his book, Pictures From the Life of the Prophet (Cairo, 1968), that Umar ibn al-Khattab, a future khalifa of the Muslims, tortured her, and whenever he paused, he said: "I have stopped beating you not out of pity but because I am exhausted." He resumed beating her after he had taken rest.
Abu Bakr bought her and set her free. Zunayra was another female slave. When she declared that she had accepted Islam, Umar ibn al-Khattab and Abu Jahl, took turns in torturing her. They tortured her until she became blind. Amin Dawidar says that a few years later she recovered her sight, and the Quraysh attributed this recovery to the "sorcery" of Muhammed. Abu Bakr bought her and set her free.
Nahdiyya and Umm Unays were two other female slaves, and their masters tortured them for accepting Islam. Abu Bakr is said to have bought both of them and emancipated them.
Muhammad Husayn Haykal
...Abu Bakr bought many of the slaves and clients who were thus being tortured by the unbelievers. Among these there was even a slave woman whom Abu Bakr had bought from Umar ibn al-Khattab before the latter's conversion. One woman is known to have been tortured to death because of her attachment to Islam and her refusal to return to the old faith. (The Life of Muhammad, Cairo, 1935)
There were some other Muslims who though not slaves, were "poor and weak," and were, therefore, exposed to the malevolence of the Quraysh. One of them was Abdullah ibn Masood. He was distinguished among the companions of the Prophet by the vast range of his knowledge and learning. He had probably more familiarity with the ethos of Islam and the vitals of the Islamic legal system than most of the companions of the Prophet. Abdullah ibn Masood was one of the earliest huffaz (=men who know Quran by heart) in Islam. As each new verse was revealed, he memorized it, and he compiled his own copy of Quran. This copy was seized by Uthman bin Affan, the third khalifa, during his caliphate, and was burned.
It is reported that when a new chapter of Quran - Sura Rahman (the 55th chapter) - was revealed, the Apostle of God asked his companions who among them would go into the Kaaba, and read it before the pagans. Other companions staggered but Abdullah ibn Masood volunteered to go. He went into the Kaaba and read the new chapter out aloud. Next to Muhammed Mustafa himself, Abdullah ibn Masood was the first man to read Quran in Kaaba before a hostile crowd of the idolaters. They mauled him, not once but repeatedly, but they could not intimidate him into silence.
https://www.al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-ashgar-razwy/early-converts-islam-and-their

There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, in all that you quoted that says that Mohamed himself was physically persecuted. Was it also "persecution" that made Mohamed to raid caravans? Did the people of Khaybar persecute any Moslem?

As a Muslim, YES.


Can you say you have believed in Allah, if, you refuse to believe in His messenger whom He has sent, and ordered you to follow?


"The believers are only the ones who have believed in Allah and His Messenger and then doubt not but strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah. It is those who are the truthful." (Qur'an 49:15)
Thank you for this verse. Read the phrase in bold. You should understand that Muslims do not interpret the Qur'an as Christians do the Bible. We do not twist to give unfounded meanings. You are interpreting it in such a way as to make Muhammad (peace be upon him) God, which is a lie. But you only do this because your mind has been programmed to do the same with Jesus (peace be upon him).
“Do not exaggerate about me as was exaggerated about ‘Eesa ibn Maryam. Say: the slave of Allah and His Messenger.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6830.)

Please, during the times of Moses, Jesus, and other messengers of God, (peace be upon them all), were they not to be obeyed? Did the revelations not come through them? How were you to succeed in attaining paradise if you did not obey them? Please, let's be reasonable.

Refer above.

Your Christian Bible interpretation has clouded your mentality.
Would your belief in God be complete if you disobeyed what he has said, that you should follow his messenger in whatever he commands, because his command is directly from God (I.e, revealed), therefore, his command is God's?


Muslims believe in the messengership of Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and all messengers of God (peace be upon them). But you practice idolatry by worshipping a man alongside God.
If belief in the messengership of Muhammad (peace be upon him) makes you think he is placed on equal footing with God, then think again, because we have been commanded to believe in all the messengers of God, so, how many Gods will we be talking about?
Please, be reasonable.

If your “YES” is to be accepted, that would mean you Moslems can STOP mentioning Mohamed in your prayers, mention ONLY belief in Allah in your Islamic Creed, etc and still be Moslems. But you know (if you will be truthful) that Islam cannot do that because it has elevated Mohamed to a deity.

You claim that you only believe in the “messengership” of Mohamed YET he is the CENTRAL FOCUS of all Moslem, not Allah. No Moslem prays without the mention of Mohamed. No one is a Moslem without the mention of Mohamed. Mohamed is the example to be followed not Allah. At the end of the day you can see that it’s all about Mohamed!

How come Allah didn’t deem it fit to use this “FINAL MESSENGER” to list some of the previous Prophets’ examples for all to follow? How come no mention of other prophets’ names in the Islamic Creed even if just one or two others; e.g. Job and Moses? What confers on Mohamed anything special other than that he was a ‘Prophet’, even if the last one?

We are not two in one. The soul is the essense, the body is just a kind of housing for the soul, in this world. So, if we should compare, out of Jesus, God, and the holy ghost, which is the essense and which is the housing for the essense, which will eventually be shed (death), and will decay, and will be formed again?


Two points here.
1. "no one comes to the Father but through me"-If he was God, why didn't he just say no one comes to me but through me?
2. Similarly, Moses, Abraham, and all the messengers of God (peace be upon them), during their time were the way to God. If you disagree, tell me how people would have made paradise in the time of Abraham (peace be upon him) when Jesus (peace be upon him), whom according to you, is and was the only way had not come?
Similarly, the times of those prophets are gone, and now, it's the time of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Therefore, disbelief is him is an outright disbelief in God's commands.


Thank you, refer above.


Two points;
1. Nope, but for his time.
2. If you say all time, what of the time of Abraham? Did the people know Jesus (peace be upon him) then?
Besides, if you ask the President who the commander in chief of the Armed forces of the federal republic of Nigeria is, he would say no one else but him, but do we not know that it is only for a time?

Refer above.

The Trinity is ONE in essence but three in personality.
If the human analogy is difficult for you to understand or accept (?) let me use the sun: are the fireball of the sun which we see, the light the sun gives and the heat of the sun of one and the same thing?
Can you say: “I can see with the LIGHT of the Sun”?
Can you say: “I am being burned with the HEAT of the Sun?”
Can you say: “I can see the BRIGHT ROUND sun?”
Will these three statements be referring to three (3) independent things or ONE thing - the Sun?

Mohamed has come and gone. Jesus Christ is still alive. Jesus Christ is UNIQUE. He existed before time. He came in flesh to take care of the sin problem between man and God. Because he resolved the sin problem he QUALIFIES as the only go-between for man and God. He overcame death by his resurrection; a proof of his victory. As a result he became a once-for-all acceptable offering and PROPHET to God. No one else was needed and no other thing or way was necessary after him.
It is interesting that the quran calls him “Messiah” yet Moslems fail to grasp the implication of that title. It simply means that whereas the quran refers to Jesus as “Saviour” – that is what MESSIAH means – Moslems still refuse his salvation work on their behalf.

No other name or way brings salvation:
"And there is salvation IN NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved" Acts 4:12

slimtoney:
You xtians, most of you will spend time attacking Islam and manufacturing lies just to tarnish this perfect faith. I wish you equally spend such time in reading your bible and with open mind read the Quran and then reach a conclusion.

The OP twisted the story and painted the Prophet black to achieve his aim. But wait a minute, all the castigation and blackmails meted on this Great Faith has not been able to stop it from growing. I swear xtianity will die a natural death if it is subjected to half the bashing that Islam has absorbed.

No real Muslim will say ill of Jesus Christ. The Quran revere him and Muslims are commanded to hold him in high esteem.

You will be surprised by the time it dawned on you the rot that have become of the big fraud you called Xtianity, simply because a whole lot of u spend much time castigating Islam than u spend working at your so called faith. I feel sorry for u

No one is manufacturing lies here. What has been stated here are ALL from Islamic sources. However since most Moslems do not read about their religion they are quick to call everything said about Mohamed lies when they're in fact the truth about him.

Can you point out where and how the story was twisted?
Can you say where Mohamed was said to have done something he did not do in this story?

No Moslem will say ill about Jesus Christ because THERE IS NO negative thing to say about him. He was above reproach. He was a person of honour and integrity. He was UNIQUE.

That is why he could boldly say: "I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6
His offer still stands today:
"Come to me, all who are weary and heavily burdened [by religious rituals that provide no peace], and i will give you rest [refreshing your souls with salvation]. Matthew 11:28
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved" Acts 4:12

Haroun13

Thank you for pointing out their "civilization", even though I never denied it. But it might interest you to know that they also held festivals where they danced round the Ka'aba naked. Or that they used to bury their female children alive. Or that women weren't entitled to inheritance. It's you women who complain about such things, yet you come here to praise such society.

Religion always has a way of making even intellectually bright people become dummies when it comes to its rituals. That can be proven throughout history.
Khadija who married Mohamed was an Arabian woman!!! It is not fair for Islam, which like ISIS destroys every document and monument they consider “un-Islamic”, to now turn round and want to make the world believe nothing good existed in Arabia before Islam. Was Khadija ‘marginalized’? Islam actually did more harm to women than it wants to admit.

The excerpt you quoted really only duelt on commercial activities. Why don't you give us an excerpt on their judicial system, then, we can start from there.

Thanks to the availability of information today many issues can easily be found on the internet. A search will show you that pre-Islamic Arabia had legal systems they followed. This existed among the nomadic and sedentary groups. For your information there had always been interactions between peoples in the world. Many settlements of Jews were in the Arabian Peninsula – Khaybar where Mohamed was given the poison that eventually led to his death was a Jewish settlement; and the Jews had had a long history of Jurisprudence which those they interacted with may have adopted or modified for their own use if they had none. Besides, Greek and Roman influences were also there.
It will be a dishonour to the people and in fact deceit to want to claim that it was only after Islam that those societies became ‘civilized’.

Nice one. Giving women rights to inheritance and stopping burying of female children alive must really be neolithic. Yet that is what the west has been trying to "fight" for.


Your asking this question shows that your arguments have been blind. Is it news that the Muslims were persecuted in Makkah, by the pagan Arabs for many years? Or that even after the migration there were still attacks from them? Or that even the Jews of Madina with whom treaties were made violated those treaties and performed treacherous acts? That's what I'm talking about.

KNOW THIS: the “persecution” of Mohamed DID NOT go beyond verbal attacks. No physical attack was carried on Mohamed. He was the one that initiated physical attacks on his opponents. If you think this is not so provide your evidence.

If you follow the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him), it will lead you to Muhammad. But you do not follow his teachings. But let's assume you did, but ignored the part about the messenger coming after him (because he preached that), and hence, refused to follow the last and final messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him), then yes, you are wasting your time.


All the messengers preached the Oneness of God, all the messengers submitted in totality to God, in other words, they professed Islam (submission to the will of God), and Jesus (peace be upon him) was no different.


Just like I said, all messengers preached the Oneness of God. That was the basic message. Though some other things would be different, depending on the time and place of the messenger, but the basic message of the Oneness of God was the same.
For one to say he has submittedjavascript:void(0); to God, means to obey God in all respects. God sent Jesus (peace be upon him), Jesus proclaimed the coming of another messenger from God. Meaning that the moment the new messenger came, belief in him was and is a must. If you don't, then obviously, you have disbelieved in the statement of Jesus (peace be upon him) concerning the coming of a new messenger. In that case, would you still be following the teachings of Jesus in truth? I doubt that would be possible since you just ignored a major thing he has said.
It's like saying that the even though a new President has be sworn in, the former president is whom you would follow, as the present one. It makes no sense. (This is just a similitude on a much lower scale)

Can you show me where Jesus “proclaimed the coming of another messenger from God”? If you do maybe I can better answer this your question.

I'm truly amazed at this statement, truly. A person who worships 3 gods, saying that they are one, even though I have never seen where 1+1+1 adds up to one, says that a person who acknowledges only one God, worships him alone not even through his messenger, is idolatrous? Please, be reasonable. Your statement makes no sense.

As a Moslem can you believe in Allah alone and qualify for Paradise?

The Moslem Creed puts Mohamed alongside Allah. This means Islam requires a belief in Allah as well as BELIEF IN A MAN.

Belief in Allah ALONE is not sufficient. The focus of the Moslem is therefore not DIRECTED AT ONE GOD but on him PLUS another person - Mohamed. Q. 49:15

This then makes Islam inextricably tied to a man; the man Mohamed.

Islam INSISTS that Mohamed MUST be obeyed. This again means that other than Allah a man is given a position of a deity because it's ONLY a deity that it can be said MUST be obeyed.

Islam states that disobedience to Allah and Mohamed leads to hell. Q. 4:14 So Allah and Mohamed are again placed at par as NOT OBEYING EITHER ONE of them leads to hell.

For a religion that PRIDES itself in being MONOTHEISTIC it's interesting that some other person APART from Allah MUST be the focus of attention ALL THE TIME.

Moslems are ACTUALLY doing exactly what they loudly proclaim must not be done and what they constantly accuse others of - obedience and focus on more than one God.

Another meaningless passage.

All messengers were unique and lived exemplary lives. If you want to know what true trials are, look at the life of Prophet Ayyub (Job) (peace be upon him), the trials he went through. Though, I don't know what lies have been fabricated against him in the bible, since the bible is fond of that, like the lies fabricated against Lut (Lot) or Dawud (David) and other great prophets of God.
Or look at the life of Muhammad (peace be upon him).


It doesn't even make sense that 3 gods exist who have no beginning and no end [even though Jesus (peace be upon him) was born] and are coequal. Then one day, one of them decides to come down to the earth to die, for a sin which all 3 ought to have forgiven a long time ago (though he was supposed to have no end) in order to appease the other one. And then, one begins to wonder how these 3 gods are all powerful, if in order to forgive a mistake (yes, a mistake. What you Christians all fuss about, dread like hell, which gave rise to your doctrine of "original sin" is described as a mistake, a slip, in the Qur'an) one of them has to come and die.
God has given us the ability to reason. So please tell me, why would He reveal himself to us in away that defies all of the reasoning He has given us?

They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent. (Qur'an 5:17)

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. (Qur'an 4:157)

Could you tell me who else could make such an emphatic statement, clarifying all the misconceptions concerning the alleged crucifixion if not God?

Tell me, are you only a physical being or do you have an invisible aspect – a soul – in addition to your physical body? So if one say you are 2-in-one yet a single individual would that be a lie and something that “doesn’t even make sense”, and “defies all of the reasoning He has given us”, like you said above?

He still is the way, the truth and the life.
He didn't tell a lie, but now, Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the way to God.

Notice Jesus' statement didn't just stop at the three you listed above. It went further and you cannot choose part and disregard the other.
He said:
Jesus said: “I am the way, and the TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me” John 14:6
From what you can see he also said: "NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME"
That is a statement that is for all time.

"And there is salvation IN NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved" Acts 4:12

Allah Causing His Prophet to Commit Sin

It would appear that Mohamed even tried to conceal his desires since he knew the shame and embarrassment marrying his daughter-in-Law would cause in the eyes of the people, suggesting that Mohamed understood the high moral standard expected of him by those around him even if not by Allah himself!

Did Zaid have any MORAL grounds for divorcing Zainab, since she neither committed adultery nor any other abominable offence, and their marriage was still binding when Mohamed married her? So, no matter what reason Moslems come up with, the moral problem still remains.

Since Mohamed claimed it was Allah that sanctioned the divorce, do we then say that Allah DOES NOT HATE DIVORCE but actually sanctions it, whether or not there is any legal or moral grounds for it?

farouk0403:
What is he trying to proof? who asked him? did any muslim attacked him in this forum or his religion?

What can't he face his problem without involving Prophet Muhammad?
Look i am not a fanatic but i detest hypocrisy

Anyone who desires the truth MUST be willing to have an open mind to look at FACTS objectively. I ask you to do so with the facts presented on this matter rather than quickly push aside all that have been presented.

If you honestly search for the TRUTH you will find HIM because he himself said "I am the way, and the TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me" John 14: 6

Did Mohamed Commit Adultery with Zainab Before Adoption was Abrogated?

Mohamed could (and indeed did) have as many wives as he wanted. But of all people it was a cousin of his, who was the wife of his adopted son that attracted his fancy.

The story goes like this:
One day Mohamed went to visit Zaid, his adopted son, but he was not at home. Arriving there and going in Mohamed saw Zainab (Zaid’s wife) somewhat physically exposed and he was moved by the beauty of his daughter-in-law. (Now, it was Mohamed himself who married Zainab, his cousin, to Zaid, his son). On leaving, Mohamed made a comment which Zainab reported to her husband Zaid. Zaid knew Mohamed well and knew that the comment meant that Mohamed was physically interested in his wife. Zaid also knew whatever Mohamed wanted he would get at all cost. Zaid knew he had to give in to Mohamed or end up becoming a target of Mohamed. Zaid went to Mohamed and declared his intention (?) to divorce his wife so Mohamed could marry her if this is what Mohamed so desired. Mohamed appeared to initially refuse, encouraging his adopted son to retain his wife. But Zaid, who appeared to know better, divorced his wife and, presto, Mohamed was commanded by Allah to then marry Zainab, his adopted son's divorcee.

In order to legitimize the action, Allah then gave Mohamed a quran to confirm his acceptance of the marriage and nullifying adoption henceforth.
Surah 33:37-38: “And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah’s command shall be performed. There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute.”
Mohamed already had other wives at this time and other women at his disposal. Yet Allah’s wisdom was for him to add the wife of his adopted son to his harem.

Why did Allah not stop Mohamed from adoption in the first place?
Zaid was a freed slave (of Mohamed's first wife, Khadijah) whom Mohamed publicly adopted as his son. According to recorded Islamic history, Mohamed took Zaid to the Black Stone of the Kaaba and said:
“Bear testimony, all ye that are present. Zaid is my son; I will be his heir and he shall be mine.” (W. Muir, The Life of Muhammad, ed. T.H. Wair, p. 35).
Thereafter, he was called Zaid ibn Muhammad (Zaid the son of Muhammad). Zaid was one of the first persons to accepted Islam. This was before Zaid married Zainab.

If quran is a book that has a copy in heaven wouldn’t Allah have known all he wanted to give Mohamed instead of changing things as Mohamed’s desires dictated it? Even if we are to admit that Mohamed made a mistake in adopting a son, WHY DID ALLAH NOT CORRECT HIS PROPHET AT THIS POINT IN TIME? Why did Allah not say to him here and then “No, Mohamed, I do not want you or any Moslem to take anyone as an adopted son”? Why did Allah have to wait until Mohamed became interested in his adopted son’s wife before he (Allah) now showed Mohamed that adoption was not permitted by him? And all these to justify Mohamed marrying his daughter-in-law when the whole thing could have been avoided right from start?

If the quran existed in heaven then Allah’s standards must have been known and should have been clearly conveyed to Mohamed. So why was this not done?
Allah could simply have told Mohamed ‘No adoption!’ If Allah prohibits Moslem men from adopting sons, why did he have to make Mohamed go through all he did and then claim that the validation for Mohamed marrying Zainab was to make believers see that there is no sin in a person marrying his adopted son's former wife? If the quran was really a book in and from heaven why did it not just give its commands instead of waiting for Mohamed to make mistakes before straightening things out for him and his followers?

So we see Mohamed adopting a son and calling him his son for years and Allah NEVER told Mohamed ‘Adoption is wrong! Don’t call Zaid your son!’ Mohamed goes on to marry Zainab (his cousin) to Zaid and Allah still did not tell his PROPHET that ‘That woman is actually meant to be your wife!’ And it was ONLY after Mohamed saw her physically exposed and became attracted to her that Allah now wakes up and tells his prophet his will concerning adoption and also marriage to the divorced wife of his son. Mohamed had an immoral sexual desire for his daughter-in-law while she was still married to his adopted son who carries his name – Zaid bin Mohamed. Zaid still carried Mohamed’s name up until that time. As far as Allah was concerned Mohamed’s desire for a MARRIED WOMAN – another man’s wife – was not wrong or a sin or ADULTERY but simply a MISTAKE. In fact, Allah caused Mohamed to have desires for his son’s wife.

What Allah has ended up doing here is to ENSURE that no Moslem man will ever have a filial relationship with any other person apart from biological children. Every other person is then to be seen as distant person. Allah, through this pronouncement ensures that the welfare and happiness of countless millions of orphans and needy children would not be guaranteed in a close family relationship. Allah, has ensured that barren couples can find no real joy through the adoption of children that they could call their own. What a compassionate Allah!

What Allah has ended up doing was to open the door for as many of Mohamed’s followers who had adopted sons to put up this disclaimer, engineer the break-up of their sons’ marriages where they have been attracted to their sons’ wives and then marry the women. Only God knows the crises in many families this Allah’s directly must have caused between sons and their adoptive fathers.

Moslems should consider whether the entire account of Zaid’s divorce of Zainab, Mohamed’s marriage with Zainab and the following revelations of the quran verses from Allah to justify what would ordinarily be an indecent episode is something befitting a true prophet of God.

The God of the Holy Bible has this to say about those who have desires for married women:
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28
Exodus 20:17: “Thou shall not covet thy neighbour’s wife.”

The God of the Bible hates adulterous acts and desires, hates divorce, would not force anyone to forsake their wives so as to allow others to marry them, and would not encourage ‘temporary’ marriages. In short, the marriage institution is HIGHLY REGARDED and considered sacred by the God of the Bible. The Allah of the Quran seem to have lower moral standards and so stands in the opposite end of all these.

Mohamed was allowed many indulgences that other Moslems were not allowed to. Now, if he is to be followed as an EXAMPLE yet there were things he was allowed that other Moslems were not, which example are they now to follow?

A Look At The Man Jesus (1)

1. His birth was foretold and fulfilled prophecy – Luke 1: 26 – 33: “The Angel Gabriel said … Mary … you will be with child and give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.”

2. He was clear about who he was and about his ministry to the world from his very early life – Luke 2: 42 – 49: “When he (Jesus) was twelve years old, … … they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions … … he asked “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”

3. He overcame the devil’s temptation – Luke 4: 1 – 13: “he was tempted by the devil … … when the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him”

4. He taught with an authority no one could question – Luke 4: 31 – 32: “… …On the Sabbath day began to teach the people. They were amazed at his teaching, because his message had authority”

5. He had power over evil spirits – Luke 4: 33 – 36: “… … there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit … … Jesus said “Come out of him!” Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him”

6. Jesus healed many sick people – Luke 4: 40: “When the sun was setting, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them”

7. Jesus preached love for enemies, not hatred – Luke 6: 27 – 28: “But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.”

A Look Again At Mohamed

Mohamed raided Caravans; in other words, engaged in highway robbery. Now, if we are to follow Ifleak's reasoning, since the people of 1400 years ago also did those things, there was nothing wrong in a "PROPHET" of God STEALING from others by engaging in ARMED ROBBERY.

Even the Pagans of Mohamed's time considered their holy month - Ramadan - sacred and WILL NOT engage in violence during this period. But what do we see in Mohamed a supposed prophet of God? To him RAIDS can be made and WARS fought during the holy month. So even the pagans of 1400 years ago had more ETHICS than a "Prophet" of God.

To Mohamed "persecution" is WORSE THAN killing. So his unprovoked slaughter of many was justified: a position he came to because NONE of those who opposed Mohamed's new religion at that time went beyond verbal and other non-physical opposition. So, wanting a way out, Allah had to give Mohamed a word to show him that unjustified killings is not as heinous as "persecution".

Moslems repeatedly tell us that Allah is caring, kind, loving, and compassionate. So, how come his Prophet never exhibited that to those living around him?

Mohamed's sexual lust led him to go against many regulations that even the pagans came up with to regulate sexual conduct in the society. One wonders why Moslems who justify Mohamed's marriage to a 6-year old NEVER ASK why he did not give out his daughters in marriage at that age. If it was that common and exciting why did Mohamed not give out his daughters before puberty?

How come when other Moslems were restricted, the "Prophet" was allowed to let loose his sexual desires? He married more wives than others were permitted to do.

In the name of Allah, Mohamed allowed himself licence or freedom in many things and many areas that one would ordinarily expect a "man of God" to exercise restraints in.

One wonders then whether he is "an example to be followed" in his lifestyle of orgies or in his relentless pursuit of power and money until his death.

Mohamed projected more of himself in the quran than Allah. Moslems ought to be concerned about this. But it seems to have passed them by. For a man who claimed that he was a messenger of Allah why did he not proclaim more about Allah? Why was virtually every "revelation" from Allah about Mohamed? Why did he always seem to be at par with Allah? Why is the Moslem's "salvation" tied to belief in Mohamed? Why is the "unbeliever's" fate tied to his acceptance of Mohamed plus Allah and not on Allah ALONE?

Until Islam seeks Allah ALONE - the monotheism it claims to be - rather than Allah PLUS Mohamed - which is what it is, and is no different from the polytheism it claimed to be wiping out - there will continue to be turmoil in Islam and ANTAGONISM against the rest of mankind. In short, the so-called "religion of peace" will bring not peace but unending upheaval in the world.

iamgenius:
Beheading of who? U dont just pick anywhere from d verses of the Quran without completing it. Dat is what you guys used to do.

Why Don't you try and be more ingenious.

lfleak:
how old was Mary?

Can you remind us of the FOCUS of this thread again?

lfleak:
have you answered my question? How old was Mary?

I understand that COMPREHENSION can be a problem for most Moslems given their INDOCTRINATION.

Let me answer you again:
No matter the age of MARY that does not justify a HALF A CENTURY OLD Mohamed who claimed to be a Prophet of a God marrying himself off to a 6 year old.

Should we expect a greater level of morality from one who claims to be a Prophet or should we accept lewd and vile lifestyle from such?

Now this is a man who had been married to an older woman. This was not his first marriage. What should then be ATTRACTIVE in a 6 year old to a man who should have been relating to her as a grand child?

Even Sodom and Gomorrah may not have done that.

Perhaps many of you Moslems are happy with Mohamed's morality because it does not put any demand on you to seek to live by high moral standards.

If you want us to use the same standard we would use for anyone out there for Mohamed then what's so special about him that he should be seen as an EXAMPLE to be followed?

Do you get my point now?

Compare his morality with that of Jesus and tell me if Jesus is not SUPERIOR. Look at the lives of the two and say if Jesus is not more virtuous.

iamgenius:
ok, Continue. So the prophet(peace be upon him) didnt show any proof of his prophethood? U need to read history, not just what any dick and harry wrote on the internet, and u just copy and past. British Slave

There you again, confirming what I just wrote.

Why Don't you take some and go through the posts to see the flow.

When you're too quick to respond you may showing the kind of person you are.

Either address the issue or keep quiet. Ok?

lfleak:
how old was the mother of Jesus..Mary when she was married to 90 year old Joseph??

You Moslems sure enjoy dodging issues.
You must have been taught well how to cleverly and dishonestly avoid issues. You are as EVASIVE as Mohamed was when he was asked to produce supernatural proof of his prophethood.

Do you expect more high moral standards from a "PROPHET" as opposed a common person?
Is the "best example of proper ethical and moral behavior for mankind" to be compared with any other common man?

If you want us to accept the morality of every Jones and Joseph for your "model" then what are you telling us? Are you not then contradicting yourself?

A best example should STAND OUT. If you then want us to equate him with every commoner then what right do you have to claim that he is to be emulated?

lfleak:
if there is something I must compare to your brain.. It should be dust...

WE BELIEVE THAT MUHAMMED IS A PROPHET OF GOD means he is in per with God right?

Stop living in the past, come just us in the future gobtard!

If you don't obey Mohamed - Hell.

If you must go to Paradise - obey Mohamed.

If you obey Allah ALONE - Hell.

And your brain still thinks you're not equating him with God?

Veneration of Man

The Moslem Creed puts Mohamed alongside Allah. This means Islam requires a belief in Allah as well as BELIEF IN A MAN
.

Belief in Allah ALONE is not sufficient. The focus of the Moslem is therefore not DIRECTED AT ONE GOD but on him PLUS another person - Mohamed. Q. 49:15

This then makes Islam inextricably tied to a man; the man Mohamed.

Islam INSISTS that Mohamed MUST be obeyed. This again means that other than Allah a man is given a position of a deity because it's ONLY a deity that it can be said MUST be obeyed.

Islam states that disobedience to Allah and Mohamed leads to hell. Q. 4:14 So Allah and Mohamed are again placed at par as NOT OBEYING EITHER ONE of them leads to hell.

For a religion that PRIDES itself in being MONOTHEISTIC it's interesting that some other person APART from Allah MUST be the focus of attention ALL THE TIME.

Moslems are ACTUALLY doing exactly what they loudly proclaim must not be done and what they constantly accuse others of - obedience and focus on more than one God.

lfleak:
I have answered this several times. NO

You answered NO because:
The Moslem Creed puts Mohamed alongside Allah. This means Islam requires a belief in Allah as well as BELIEF IN A MAN.

Belief in Allah ALONE is not sufficient. The focus of the Moslem is therefore not DIRECTED AT ONE GOD but on him PLUS another person - Mohamed. Q. 49:15

This then makes Islam inextricably tied to a man; the man Mohamed.

Islam INSISTS that Mohamed MUST be obeyed. This again means that other than Allah a man is given a position of a deity because it's ONLY a deity that it can be said MUST be obeyed.

Islam states that disobedience to Allah and Mohamed leads to hell. Q. 4:14 So Allah and Mohamed are again placed at par as NOT OBEYING EITHER ONE of them leads to hell.

For a religion that PRIDES itself in being MONOTHEISTIC it's interesting that some other person APART from Allah MUST be the focus of attention ALL THE TIME.

Moslems are ACTUALLY doing exactly what they loudly proclaim must not be done and what they constantly accuse others of - obedience and focus on more than one God.

lfleak:
boy o boy... Lemme come to naija level..

Shebi you fit read..

Plenty plenty prophet wet God send, but all of their message na to a specified region... Like Jesus for example na Israel him journey start and end... Moses (Egypt-isreal), Jacob (Canaan) joseph(Egypt) ...among plenty others wet we no know... Quran only mention 25 of them...

But God send Muhammad to all Creations.. You get am? God no send am to a precise place, but general.. And also na him be the last prophet..

I thought the level of the question was simple enough.

Here it is again:
As a Moslem can you believe in Allah alone and qualify for Paradise?

hfeetham0

The Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) did not marry Sayyidah Aisha out of his physical desires. One need to note that for first 54 years of his life he had only one wife. His only wife till 50th year of his life was Sayyida Khadija. He spent his entire youth with her and she was a two time widowed woman, 15 years older to him. For next four years his only wife was Sayyidah Sa’uda.

So Mohamed first marries a woman 15 years older than him then decided to go the other way round to one that is more than 40 years younger. interesting!

One must first understand that 1400 years ago was very different than now, times have changed and so have humans. 1400 years ago it was something very common to marry young girls, in fact they were not considered young girls, and rather they were considered young women back then. It is a historic fact that girls from the ages of 9 to 14 were being married in Europe, Asia, and Africa, in fact even in the United States girls at the age of 10 were also being married just more than a century ago.
Yet with these facts no historian claims that all these people were sick perverts, historians would call anyone who made such a claim to be arrogant and very stupid who has no grasp or understanding of history.

So 1400 years ago prophets of God lived a life of pleasure to self (wives, war booties, etc.) not dedication to God?

The fact that it was a completely acceptable thing can also be seen from the response of the pagans at that time. No Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married. Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet’s marriage was:1-People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.2-Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many non-Muslim and Muslim countries

Even when the prophet himself VIOLATED set down rules of no marriage before the girl reaches puberty?

Furthermore as to the Holy Prophet’s marriage with Sayyidah Aisha, something people will notice is that the completion of the marriage was done when Sayyidah Aisha was 9 years old, not when she was 6, and there is a reason for that. The reason why this happened is because Sayyidah Aisha had been through puberty by the age of 9, and in Islam a female who under-goes puberty is considered a lady and is fit for marriage.
If we read the hadiths, we find that right before Sayyidah Aisha got married off to the Holy Prophet that she was sick and not feeling too well:


So as we can see, Sayyidah Aisha got ill and her body was going through some changes, indicating that she was going through her puberty.

Another striking thing to observe is that among hundreds of her narrations there is not even a single one showing her displeasure about this marriage. Hence, she had no problem with this relation. Infect it is manifest from several traditions that she loved the Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) too much and even felt some sort of jealousy when she found others around him. Does this not prove that she was extremely happy about this marriage? So, when she herself had no problem at all then what’s the matter of concern for others?

It is interesting that you Moslems have to do a lot of rigmarole to justify your many rituals. You expect a 6 or 9 year old to show DISPLEASURE?

Prophet Muhammad’s marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions. It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into “women”, then they get married off. It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage. That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. The culture back then and in many of the world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today.And there is no divine law which is broken in marrying a girl of nine at any costs.

So even if the girl is still PLAYING WITH DOLLS its ok to marry her off.

Sayyidah Aisha’s mother and the Muslim women back then were O.K with her marriage. It was part of the Arab custom and still is in many of the Muslim and non-Muslim countries today for girls to marry at a very young age. When a girl’s body starts showing up (her breasts and her height and physical size), then she would be ready for marriage
The only reason why Sayyidah Aisha’s father, Abu Baker Al Sidique, broke her engagement with Jober is because he was a non-Muslim. Later, a woman named Kholeah Bint Hakeem suggested for Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him to marry Sayyidah Aisha, because the Prophet and Abu Baker became best friends. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) engaged Sayyidah Aisha for 3 years before he married her.

Had there been any bad thinking regarding this marriage in minds of the people at that time. Muslims would have tried there best to conceal at that time. But they didn’t.

Who dared to question the "Prophet of God"?

There were many baseless traditions in practice among the Arabs in those days. So Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was usually ordered by the Almighty ALLAH to refute such traditions through personal examples. Similar is the case of Prophet Muhammad’s marriage with Umm al Momineen Aisha (R.A.)

There were also traditions and practices among the Arabs of those days that Mohamed imported into Islam. The Kaaba existed before Mohamed's Islam. The stone worship also. The pilgrimages too. Even during the time of Mohamed the Polytheists worked hand in hand with Moslems.

INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!!!

Moslems' usual fall-back position!
Didn't Allah reveal a clear book for all to live by?
If we cannot get CLARITY from the 'clear' book then something must be wrong.

lfleak:
gobtard, I beg you, don't reproduce...
You hear Muhammed and Allah whenever Muslims are praying and don't care to know the meanings...

Did you hear them say, Oh Allah and Muhammed are the greatest??
No
It simply states ..

I BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH, AND I BELIEVE MUHAMMED IS ALLAH'S PROPHET... That is how it is and will always be...

So to the extent that you mention ONLY Mohamed DAILY and in your prayers you make him DISTINCT from other prophets.

Prayer is a very serious thing for any religious person.
Therefore what is said in prayer is important.

When you therefore use ONLY the name of Mohamed you're differentiating between him and other prophets.
In fact you're placing him on a higher pedestal than other prophets.

That is the TRUTH even when, because you want to claim some other thing, you deny it is so.

That is why the question is relevant: As a Moslem can you believe in Allah alone and qualify for Paradise?

lfleak:
oo I see... You sound real jealous... I feel your pain..

Now you're trying to ignore the issues I raised.
You will then claim I ran away when you are the one who will soon run away.

Let's reduce it to only this one thing:
Can you as a Moslem believe in and mention ONLY Allah in your prayers and enter Paradise?

iamgenius:
If someone says to u; I am a muslim and he/she failed to believe in one of d six branches of Faith, then bear witness that he's not a muslim truely. One of d six branches of Islamic Faith is " Believe In The Messengers".

The issue is this: Islam says you must not relate anyone with Allah. Yet in your daily prayers you ALWAYS add Mohamed to Allah.
Is that not tantamount to partnering him with Allah?

As a Moslem can you believe in Allah alone and qualify for Paradise?

lfleak:
Aisha was married at the age 9..
That only has made all your note false..

From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234
"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."
Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
I hope you will be educated by the above.

lfleak:
gobtard! Get it straight into your core...

He is the seal of all prophets and also send to all creations, Jesus was sent to isreal.. Jacob was sent to Canaan, saleh was sent to Palestine among thousands of others.. But the prophet was sent to all creations.. And FYI we don't compare the prophets in Islam, we acknowledge all of them..

I understand that most of you Moslems never want to face FACTS about your religion.

Moslems are told to believe in Allah AND his apostle. Notice: believe in Allah and believe in Allah's prophet I.e. Mohamed.
In Islam's prayers, Mohamed is partnered with Allah.
No other prophet is given that position.
Yet Moslems will deceive themselves into thinking that they don't differentiate between the prophet's.
Why mention ONLY Mohamed day in, day out? How come there is no alternating with other prophets?
Yet there is no differentiating between the prophet's?
Who are you kidding?

What kind of blindness is this?

TalkIslam:
Salam!

Again, Do you want to LEARN or CRITICISE?

Learn what?

Are you a teacher?

lfleak:
gobtard! Get it straight into your core...

He is the seal of all prophets and also send to all creations, Jesus was sent to isreal.. Jacob was sent to Canaan, saleh was sent to Palestine among thousands of others.. But the prophet was sent to all creations.. And FYI we don't compare the prophets in Islam, we acknowledge all of them..

Do you mention the names of the other prophets during prayers like you do Mohamed?

Harzontorh:
Bro you mean quran says 'Jesus is superior than Mohamed'.. Bro are you believing the quran right now?? That should be a false statement now.. since its coming from the Quran.

If you have started believing in Koran, please let me know so that I may join too .

Did you read the thread?

lfleak:
chai...
Gobtard!, Don't reproduce!!!

Their are hundreds of thousands of prophets of God sent by God to earth... Each and every one of them is sent to a specific zone... The last prophet is sent as a mercy to not just mankind but all CREATIONS...guess you should be able to fathom that..

Is it because he is the "last prophet" sent that you Moslems regards him greater than other prophets and worship him?

TalkIslam:
Salam!

Do you want to LEARN or CRITICISE.

Are you a teacher or expert of some sort?

When did FACTS become CRITICISM?

hfeetham0:
quran 19:30.. yea yea..

you ran from my question then, do you accept the OT?

Is this thread about OT?

iamgenius:
They are both prophets, we believe in both of them. Quran 2:275: we didn't differentiate between the prophets coz they were all sent by Allah to preach to mankind that none has the right to be worshipped except God(Allah).

Do you mention Mohamed every time you pray?

Do you do the same for all the other 'prophets' you don't DIFFERENTIATE between?

Does the fact that you mention Mohamed every day and EVERY TIME you pray AND NOT OTHER PROPHETS still show that you don't "DIFFERENTIATE between the prophets coz they were all sent by Allah to preach to mankind that none has the right to be worshipped except God(Allah)."?

You know what? You in fact, ACTUALLY WORSHIP Mohamed.