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 Christianity Etc › Re: Why Christians Should Give Qur'an A Second Thought by plainbibletruth: 7:33pm On Mar 21, 2017 |
Demmzy15:You were on NL for an hour or more and you've no time to waste? Lying and deceit seem to be your second nature. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Christians Should Give Qur'an A Second Thought by plainbibletruth: 11:02am On Mar 21, 2017 |
What JIHAD Really Is Recognized historical sources (Islamic and non-muslim) show what, in the muslim world, is taken as widely known and celebrated story, which is that: Allah came up with his final revelation through his final prophet for all mankind and he (Allah) commanded his prophet and his followers (muslims) to spread the message which is to be accepted willingly or by forced submission – Jihad! History show that those who refused to willingly accept islam were fought, with many eventually defeated and SUBJUGATED. Accounts of these wars are in many muslim traditional narratives. Where these muslim warriors were “lenient” they (the muslim jihadists) allowed the conquered people to live as second-class citizens but must pay specified taxes in addition to accepting other humiliations. Today, in a bid perhaps to “reform” islam in the eyes of others, muslims will go as far as to tell (DECEIVE?) the world that “jihad” which was originally nothing but armed warfare to advance islam only means “individual” submission to Allah. The plain truth is that contrary to what many muslims apologists would have the world believe about islam and its “jihad”, the word simply means the spread of islam by arms as a religious duty for every muslim. Muslims (even when they refuse to openly admit and state it before others) have venerated Islamic conquests and seen nothing evil in them since the conquests have been used to cause “infidels” to come to Allah. To them there is nothing to be sorry about or apologise for in the atrocities committed by Islamic warriors. This same attitude accounts for the PASSIVE responses of majority of muslims and muslim nations to modern day Islamic terrorism and other extremes. Fortunately God has deemed it fit through history – Islamic and non-islamic records – to record for us the unquestionable facts of Mohamed and Islam’s so called ‘holy wars’. Wanting to TWIST the facts of history by muslims only show that they not only lack INTEGRITY but have decided to blind themselves to the majorly DARKER side of islam – a blindness that has made them not to see the glorious light of the ONE and true God who made ALL PROVISION in Jesus Christ for them to attain true salvation. “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved” Acts 4:12 1 Like 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Christians Should Give Qur'an A Second Thought by plainbibletruth: 9:04pm On Mar 19, 2017 |
Any Muslim who claims that Mohamed ONLY fought those who were fighting against him is a BIG LIAR. Such a one is trying to create a DIFFERENT HISTORY from what records actually state. When such a person then turns to the Bible, which he doesn't and cannot understand, to claim that the Bible - a book muslims claim has been corrupted - to justify what Mohamed did, a sane analyst immediately sees a person who wants to TWIST issues all in a bid to 'prove' a point. It is clear from history that Mohamed went on wars of conquest. And no one should try to trick others into believing otherwise. Mohamed deliberately targeted people to subjugate them to islam. In fact the spread of islam was largely due to this. From north Africa to west Africa to Asia, the historical FACTS of Islamic UNWARRANTED attacks is recorded very clearly in literature upon literature. Anyone who is taken in by the PROPAGANDA that islam has been or has somehow turned into a religion of peace either DOES NOT KNOW HISTORY or know the quran and other Islamic books which DRIVE the muslim mind. Those who propagate such Lies - like Demmzy - are DECEIVERS, LIARS and DOUBLE-FACED foot soldiers of those who do not really want peace but conquest at all cost. Demmzy is never able to CLEARLY or DIRECTLY answer questions - never! I challenge him to address my posts in this thread if he claims otherwise. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Christians Should Give Qur'an A Second Thought by plainbibletruth: 2:32pm On Mar 18, 2017 |
Demmzy15:I take it that my questions are beyond your comprehension. Thanks for expressing your inability to answer. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Christians Should Give Qur'an A Second Thought by plainbibletruth: 9:04am On Mar 18, 2017 |
ilyasmuy:Why don't you argue constructively by taking my points one by one and provide proofs against them. Don't you think that would have been better? Do you add the hadith to the quran to live your life as a Muslim? If so, are the hadith also books that were in heaven and now given by revelation? Were those who wrote them inspired? How do you account for differences between portions of the hadith and the quran? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is There Compulsion In Religion? by plainbibletruth(op): 12:05am On Mar 15, 2017 |
A Look At Some Hadith The hadith has numerous reports on how FORCE was applied in islam against those who CHOSE not to adopt islam. Indeed since the beginnings of Islam, objectors and apostates have been attacked and killed. So for anyone today who thinks he knows better and thinks Islam's "There is no compulsion in religion" propaganda is for real such a one had better think twice. Let's look at some: Al-Bukhari. Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387 From volume 4 4:50 Muhammad said, "A single endeavour (of fighting) in Allah's cause in the forenoon or in the afternoon is better than the world and whatever is in it." 4:259 Abu Huraira said, "Allah's Apostle sent us in a mission and said, ‘If you find so-and-so and so-and-so, burn both of them with fire.’ When we intended to depart, Allah's Apostle said, ‘I have ordered you to burn so-and-so and so-and-so, and it is none but Allah Who punishes with fire, so, if you find them, kill them.’" 4:260 Ikrima said, "Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, ‘Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, "Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's punishment." No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, "If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." From Volume 9 9:50 (& 4:283) Ali said,"... no Muslim should be killed ... for killing a kafir (disbeliever)." In Islam, choice is not allowable: no one is free to choose whether or not to accept or reject any area of the religion considered key. The reason given is that they are all ordained by Allah and not to be changed. Islam does not truly believe in a world in which Islam is one religion among others. Islam believes it must be the dominant religion - and Islam's drive is toward achieving this. Consequently there is actually compulsion in Islam. |
| Christianity Etc › Is There Compulsion In Religion? by plainbibletruth(op): 10:12am On Mar 14, 2017 |
Is There Compulsion In Religion? Christians are called to live in peace with all men. Jesus Christ said: “But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” Mathew 5:44 Christianity does not therefore seek to COMPEL or FORCE others into Christianity. It would appear that the quran did the same. Mohamed was severally asked not to force people to believe his message. He was only to give the message and leave the rest to Allah. Sura 13:40, Sura 88:21-22 and others. But then the same quran now goes on to reverse these teachings by asking Mohamed and by extension muslims to fight those who do not believe in his religion. Sura 9:73 “O Prophet! Strive against the disbeliever and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them”. Sura 9: 123 – “O you who believed, fight those adjacent to you of the unbelievers and let them find in you harshness”. Sura 4:89-90 is even more graphic. Of course muslim scholars find ways of explaining this contradiction and so we find them holding divergent opinions as to how to reconcile the contradiction. It must be clear to any objective reader or scholar that there is a major theological problem for islam here. Where is the love of God in asking people to be killed and end up in hell? But Allah is said to be able to turn people to the faith, so why would he now resort to death for the unbeliever? Christianity presents the good news of the salvation provided by our Saviour Jesus Christ as an open offer that carries no earthly penalty from Christians for those who choose to reject it. That is why historically even in a nation where MAJORITY are Christians non-believers or those who choose to turn away from Christianity are not killed for their position. The same cannot be said for islam. The position is clearly that of “Accept or face bitter consequence”. In belief and practice what islam seeks is forced or coerced acceptance of the religion. Where the individual or community of moslems are not able exercise power over others they brandish the “There is no compulsion in religion” placards. But where or when they have the power to they exercise oppressive control. Religious freedom requires the ability to freely express criticism of a religion. Where the religion has nothing to hide or be afraid of this (criticism) should not be an issue. But where it is the opposite the result is fierce opposition to any criticism even up to direct physical attack on the individual where possible. Compulsion also involves where even the minutest detail of a person’s life is dictated as compulsory. An honest religion must therefore not be deceptive in the presentation of what it stands for. Hiding under the cloak of one thing when the intention is the opposite is clearly not an expression of truthfulness – and one would expect a believer of any faith to reflect what would be expected of a good God: integrity. Jesus said: “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Matt. 11:28-30) |
| Islam › How Quran Errors Are Explained Away by plainbibletruth(op): 11:27pm On Mar 13, 2017*. Modified: 8:41pm On Mar 14, 2017 |
How Quran Errors Are Explained Away - Dr. Zakir Naik Style The quran’s errors include factual errors, moral errors and theological errors. When taken up with muslims such as Zakir Naik a problem passage with one of these errors is usually approached by their coming with - The “marvel” of “smart” interpretation They say something like “Yes, you find that said there, BUT what it REALLY MEANT is bla, bla, bla, “ Why didn’t a book that is meant to be CLEAR plainly state what Allah meant? Unfortunately, most of the time, for such “smart” interpreters their prophet Mohamed blocks their reinterpretation. When the hadith and muslim commentaries are consulted we see how Mohamed and his companions TOTALLY contradict such reinterpretation. A case in point – an example: Sura 18:83-86 claims the sun sets in a spring or pool of muddy water. In his attempt to ‘explain’ this problem passage that says the sun (which is 1.3 million times bigger than the earth) sets in a pool of water, Zakir Naik comes up with his “ingenious” reinterpretation to “clarify” what Allah REALLY means. He says what the passage really says is that Alexander the Great – Dhul Qarnayn in the quran passage – reached an unspecified place ‘at the time of sunset’. Not that it was the sun that set in a place – the pool. It was ‘at the time of sunset the quran wanted to tell us. Now, that would appear to be more logical, wouldn’t it? Looks brilliant? Problem solved? Not quite! What we see is that in order to explain the ”SUN GOING INTO THE SPRING OF WATER” brilliant Dr. Naik comes up with this his “smart” interpretation (actually reinterpretation) which is that – “it means it appears to Alexander the Great……… So Allah was really saying what Alexander the Great thought he saw” and not making a claim about WHERE the sun sets. Looks brilliant? Yes? No! Because Mohamed blocks Dr. Naik’s reinterpretation. Let’s see where and how: By turning to hadith. In Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 we find this: Abu Dhar said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. We can immediately see then that there is absolutely no room for the kind of reinterpretation of what the quran said. So the PERFECTLY CLEAR quran tells us that the sun sets in a pool of water. It turns out then that Dr. Zakir Naik in a bid to defend his religion has ended up insulting his prophet and Allah because he claims to speak more clearly than his god and a better interpreter than his prophet It is a CLEAR FACT that the sun does not set in a pool of water. Can a book – the quran – which says this and by so doing clearly propagating error be trusted? Those who join and follow Dr. Zakir Naik’s reinterpretation end up in blasphemy of their prophet and god. By so doing can they be assured of Paradise or end up in hell for blasphemy? Way Out! Follow the only unique and supernatural One – Jesus Christ who said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn. 14:6). “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:3) “He who believes in the Son (as Saviour) has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (Jn. 3:36). PS: Answering shawl For a book that is said to be CLEAR, when it takes a lot of rigmarole to arrive at the meaning of words, phases and sentences or even passages then it's either the book is not as clear as it says it is or set itself up to be interpreted incorrectly from the beginning. What do you think? Secondly, how come even though muslims would tell the world they believe the hadith, they have been unable to agree on which ones to collectively use and so make it easy for any muslim apologist to refuse to accept reference to any of them used? When the quran is quoted muslim apologists run to the hadith. When the hadith is quoted they put up disclaimers. If this is not deception and confusion I wonder what it is. Now again to the passage in question: "he FOUND it setting in a miry spring, or spring of dark mud" cannot be interpreted other than that HE FOUND THE SUN SETTING IN A ...... It did not say "he SAW AN IMAGE of the sun. It says he FOUND THE SUN. Look at the entire portion: "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people" Your argument may have appeared to be believable except for the fact that you forgot to add the concluding portion to your argument. Note what the last portion says " ..........and he found near it a people" He found a people where? Note that it started with: " Until, when he reached the setting of the sun......" He REACHED where? Now, how do you reconcile this with the rest of your explanation? You'll see then that your "explanations" do not hold water just as the pool of mukky water cannot in any wise be said to hold the sun or be the place where the sun sets. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Christians Should Give Qur'an A Second Thought by plainbibletruth: 11:07pm On Mar 13, 2017 |
ilyasmuy:Many portions of the quran are debated even by Islamic scholars because they are simply not quite clear. True or false? The Muslim cannot really live his religious life based on the quran alone. He must depend on hadith to COMPLETE his understanding of how to conduct his religious life. How many times does the quran say the muslim should pray? How many times does the hadith mandate the muslim to pray? Who built the Kaba according to the quran and then the hadith? Why don't the two agree? What do Muslims do there? Does Allah want a physical structure to represent him or be revered in a special way? If so why? 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Christians Should Give Qur'an A Second Thought by plainbibletruth: 3:15pm On Mar 13, 2017 |
Abdulgaffar22:I’ll give my response in short points. - Unfortunately the quran has a lot against it that makes it difficult for any OBJECTIVE reader or student of it to believe it as the direct word from God. - In history many “sane” people have claimed that they were God. [According to you such ones must have been enticed or misled by Satan]. But why should we not believe them? So, what should make a man’s claim of divinity or being called of God to be a prophet should go beyond mere claim or ability to make ‘idol-worshippers’ turn to a belief in one God. - Many contradictions in the quran are irreconcilable. Yet millions follow the religion. On the one hand it may appear to warn against idolatry and ‘evil practices’ but on the other hand we see practices in islam that are CLEARLY these. So? - To believe the quran is not authored by God creates NO PROBLEM at all for Christians. Many evil men live longer than good men. Many documents of antiquity (which predate the quran) whose correctness may be in question still survive till today. So again, longevity does not prove approval of content of the material by God. - The Bible states in many places that impersonators and liars will always be. - Deuteronomy 18: Rightly understanding what “a prophet like Moses” means is a KEY to identifying who such a one is when he comes on the scene. Context is also very important. Choosing a word or two or some phrases out of a sentence or passage does not do justice to it. It may in fact be DECEPTION at the end of the day. You left out VITAL words from the Deuteronomy 18:18-22 you referred to in justifying Mohamed as the person talked about. That portion says: “I will raise up for THEM a prophet like you FROM AMONG THEIR BROTHERS, I will put my words in his mouth ….” Did you notice the highlighted words? Who is THEM? From among WHOM was the prophet to be raised? Mohamed was neither a Jew nor was he descended from anyone in Israel. - Fulfilment of “prophecies” that are easy to fulfil leaves much to be desired as a claim for divine authorship. - Experience may be real but needs to be rightly evaluated to give it a right perspective. - NOTHING in the book of Deuteronomy remotely suggests that the quran is the last and final word of God. The quran is INCOMPLETE in many parts as well as being INCOHERENT. Contrary to what many muslims are made to believe, it was compiled DECADES after Mohamed died according to hadith. Some versions were burnt by Uthman Ibn Affan. You may wish to see: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 509 & 510 Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816 Who gave Uthman the authority to burn the copies of the quran that he destroyed? Did he receive DIVINE INSPIRATION to do that which he did? How did he come to choose which versions to destroy? Why did he burn others? So, Abdulgaffar, the quran you hold today has lots of question marks against it. You will only get clarity by going to THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK. 10 Likes 2 Shares |
| Islam › Muslims Who Believe Dr. Zakir Naik Are Doomed by plainbibletruth(op): 10:02am On Mar 13, 2017 |
Muslims Who Believe Dr. Zakir Naik Are Doomed The quran’s errors include factual errors, moral errors and theological errors. When taken up with muslims such as Zakir Naik a problem passage with one of these errors is usually approached by their coming with - The “marvel” of “smart” interpretation They say something like “Yes, you find that said there, BUT what it REALLY MEANT is bla, bla, bla, “ Why didn’t a book that is meant to be CLEAR plainly state what Allah meant? Unfortunately, most of the time, for such “smart” interpreters their prophet Mohamed blocks their reinterpretation. When the hadith and muslim commentaries are consulted we see how Mohamed and his companions TOTALLY contradict such reinterpretation. A case in point – an example: Sura 18:83-86 claims the sun sets in a spring or pool of muddy water. In his attempt to ‘explain’ this problem passage that says the sun (which is 1.3 million times bigger than the earth) sets in a pool of water, Zakir Naik comes up with his “ingenious” reinterpretation to “clarify” what Allah REALLY means. He says what the passage really says is that Alexander the Great – Dhul Qarnayn in the quran passage – reached an unspecified place ‘at the time of sunset’. Not that it was the sun that set in a place – the pool. It was ‘at the time of sunset the quran wanted to tell us. Now, that would appear to be more logical, wouldn’t it? Looks brilliant? Problem solved? Not quite! What we see is that in order to explain the ”SUN GOING INTO THE SPRING OF WATER” brilliant Dr. Naik comes up with this his “smart” interpretation (actually reinterpretation) which is that – “it means it appears to Alexander the Great……… So Allah was really saying what Alexander the Great thought he saw” and not making a claim about WHERE the sun sets. Looks brilliant? Yes? No! Because Mohamed blocks Dr. Naik’s reinterpretation. Let’s see where and how: By turning to hadith. In Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 we find this: Abu Dhar said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. We can immediately see then that there is absolutely no room for the kind of reinterpretation of what the quran said. So the PERFECTLY CLEAR quran tells us that the sun sets in a pool of water. It turns out then that Dr. Zakir Naik in a bid to defend his religion has ended up insulting his prophet and Allah because he claims to speak more clearly than his god and a better interpreter than his prophet It is a CLEAR FACT that the sun does not set in a pool of water. Can a book – the quran – which says this and by so doing clearly propagating error be trusted? Those who join and follow Dr. Zakir Naik’s reinterpretation end up in blasphemy of their prophet and god. By so doing can they be assured of Paradise or end up in hell for blasphemy? Way Out! Follow the only unique and supernatural One – Jesus Christ who said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn. 14:6). “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:3) “He who believes in the Son (as Saviour) has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (Jn. 3:36). 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Qur'an Was Revealed by plainbibletruth: 9:03pm On Mar 11, 2017 |
Abdulgaffar22:Most people will agree that man by nature is sinful. Only Christianity offers a solution to the sin problem (unless islam does consider sin and sinning to be of any importance will the issue of solution be key). God's only son Jesus came to live the perfect life for us all, and to suffer the punishment for man's sin. There had to be a punishment for sin. Jesus because he was perfect satisfied God's demands adequately. In this way God's demand for obedience was met while at the same time extending his mercy toward sinful men. Only the Messiah, whom the Quran called perfect (Surah 19:19) is righteous enough to take away the sin of the world. Whilst no SINNER qualifies to die for other sinners Jesus Christ, because he is SINLESS, qualified to pay the bailout price for man's sin. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son—that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16) 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 9:29am On Mar 06, 2017 |
Haroun13:You muslims, IN PRACTICE, do not live by only one book – the quran. You have other books (and I dare say unwritten rules) you attempt to pattern your life by in addition to the quran. Unfortunately the incongruity in these books makes for what can be described in one word as – CHAOS! To try to make a way out of the illogicality you are confronted with you must yourself become illogical. And so, even when, for example, a verse in the quran or any of the other books is clear in MEANING, as long as it does not conform to popular Islamic worldview, a new “meaning” must be given to that verse in order to make it conform to the accepted Islamic viewpoint. The disagreements even amongst yourselves muslims can be traced to this very root. Now, one of the verses I pointed you to – Q. 3:45 – should ordinarily appear to be simple to understand – “O Mary, indeed Allah gives you …..whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the hereafter…” “Messiah” means saviour, the anointed one, one with a special God-given purpose. “Distinguished” means marked by eminence, distinction, or excellence. It is only a person who in the face of clear evidence here about the meaning of these words and the UNIQUENESS of Jesus Christ here and still wants to believe otherwise, will seek another interpretation that is meant to make him stick to what he wants to believe rather than what that portion says. It is this same warped thinking that made you as a muslim say “we make no distinction between ANY of the prophets” yet still turn around the very next moment to say “Well, who’s better to be followed, than the best?” So, right here you are making “distinction”, because you have decided or chosen to follow one prophet rather than another. And in all these it still does not even occur to you that you’re contradicting yourself. You muslims must turn to illogicality then in order to try and untangle yourselves from the inconsistencies and contradictions in the quran. You can IGNORE facts but the facts still remain. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 8:25pm On Mar 05, 2017 |
afemgbosey:Thanks. This will be of help to many. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 11:48pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
Haroun13: “I can give pages upon pages …” does not address the issue. I hope you will agree with me on this. If you are asked to follow a man, any man, as an example there should be some specific things about him that you are to follow. You cannot just be asked to follow a person without specificity as to what to follow about him. It is those specific things about Mohamed I asked you to state but you could not. What you have succeeded in proving is that you follow him out of emotions or because you just want to obey those who asked you to follow him even when no “excellent pattern” or “great moral character” has been given. One of the things that confuse muslims in the quran is its incongruity. As a result instead of settling down to be objective in examining it they resort to EITHER simply accepting what your authoritarian leaders interpret any portion to mean or choose the more convenient route of choosing to align with the easier parts of the book. You can’t on the one hand say that all prophets are merely messengers and then on the other hand say that one – Mohamed – should be more regarded than others even when no clear reason for that is provided in the quran. Does that make sense to you? What I’m pointing out to you is that the quran itself says Jesus Christ is the anointed one. That in itself is a call to privilege. He is said to be DISTINGUISHED in this world (note this, because it’s not saying HE WILL BE distinguished as in future) and in the hereafter. Distinguished means marked by eminence, distinction or excellence. But because you want to stick to islam’s doctored position on Jesus Christ you cannot just bring yourself to accept what is CLEARLY STATED in the quran. You must FIND A WAY to disagree particularly because the person telling you this is not from your camp but an outsider. You’ve been TAUGHT ALL YOUR LIFE that Mohamed should be more revered than others. So even when you see it in your quran that there is someone more DISTINGUISHED than him your brain cannot handle it. The only escape route becomes anything that can ‘help’ you ‘PROVE’ that your position must be right even if it is straw. I doubt if Mohamed were to come to the world today that he would accept the quran you guys are having as what came from him. You must know how some ‘EDITIONS’ were destroyed in the attempt to UNIFY the quran. The people who eventually piece together the quran were ENTIRELY DIFFERENT From the man who was said to be the ORIGINAL RECITITER of the quran. Were the compilers ‘inspired’? How did they choose what to destroy and what to accept? Those are stories for another day. For now, the issue is that even in the quran you have with you, Jesus Christ is said to be the anointed one and the distinguished one. Do you agree? Mohamed, like all the other prophets is no more with us TODAY. SO, if you are to believe the prophet of your time why Mohamed? How is he the prophet of your time? Simply because according to you muslims he is the last of the prophets? Yet those who believed the other prophets did so because the prophets were alive during the people’s lifetime? How did you guys arrive at that deduction? Tell me now who is applying a WARPED formula – you or me? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 10:06pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
Rilwayne001:Just wait and see. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 9:43am On Mar 03, 2017 |
Haroun13Can you tell us examples of the “excellent pattern” and “great moral character” that he portrays? You are gonna have to show us that verse, cause I've never come across it.Apparently you did not bother to refer to the verses of the quran I listed up there. Just as you quoted the ones about Mohamed, look up the ones about Jesus and if after that you don’t think he’s UNIQUE then it must be a case of selective blankness. Well, Adam (peace be upon him) was made by God Almighty himself, Jesus (peace be upon him) was still in the womb, and carried for the normal gestation period of humans, and was born like every other baby, only difference is, without male intervention. So, if we are to compare on that basis, then the birth of Jesus (peace be upon him) is not even as miraculous or as special as the creation of Adam.What is it with you people? You admit there’s a DIFFERENCE yet you still turn round to say it’s nothing. What you guys are actually saying is something like – “There’s a difference but I don’t care” Well, he's not the only one. In fact, all human beings have this.Does this reduce the fact that Jesus’ conception and birth were UNIQUE? The verse says in summary that Maryam (peace be upon her) will be made to give birth to a pure boy. Although, it is not mentioned that Jesus (peace be upon him) committed any sin, but that doesn't change anything, and doesn't mean he didn't, or wouldn't. We Muslims do not assume, we follow that which is revealed and do not play "fill in the gaps".Why is so hard for you to simply be straightforward. See what you wrote - “Although, it is not mentioned…”, “..and doesn’t mean he didn’t…”, “we follow that which is revealed…”. I simply gave you what is revealed in your quran and instead of saying “That is true!” you end up going round in a circle? The Quran says that God raised him (Jesus, peace be upon him) to himself. Simply means that he was raised physically, without dying, other prophets are also in heaven, just like Jesus (peace be upon him). Doesn't change anything.Did you see Jesus’ superiority “until the day of resurrection”? TrueSo again, to you the fact that Jesus has a special place with God doesn’t matter. Tell him that when you stand before him at your resurrection! Look again.Was any of the other prophets said to be CHRIST? Maybe you should take time to check the meaning and implication of that word by yourself. If you are honest with yourself you cannot place the QUALITIES of Jesus Christ and Mohamed LISTED IN THE QURAN side by side and still claim Mohamed is “better to be followed”. If you do, it must be that you are DELIBERATELY DISREGARDING what the quran says about Jesus and decided to brainwash yourself in favour of Mohamed. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 10:52pm On Mar 02, 2017 |
Haroun13:You do not make distinction between the prophet's [b]YET you still have one that is better to be followed? And that is not not DISTINCTION? Are you for real? I'll take you up on the others later. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 10:42pm On Mar 02, 2017 |
nextprince:Try pronouncing psychology without the 'p'. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 10:40pm On Mar 02, 2017 |
akp202:  |
| Christianity Etc › Quran Says Jesus Is Superior To Mohamed by plainbibletruth(op): 1:35pm On Mar 02, 2017 |
Quran Says Jesus is Superior to Mohamed What MAJORITY of muslims say about Mohamed – e.g. “he is the best of mankind”, etc – are not TRULY what the quran or HISTORY say about him. They (muslims) have simply made up those positions about Mohamed. Perhaps they want to have a hero and as a result they have created a larger-than-life image of Mohamed. But the quran says differently. The picture of Mohamed painted for us in the quran is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from what muslims have been fed with and would have the rest of the world believe. On the other hand Jesus Christ is IN REALITY shown in the quran to be superior to all mankind, including Mohamed. It is a well-known fact that Jesus (and other Prophets) are individually mentioned more times in the quran than Mohamed. But more than that is the fact that the QUALITY of Jesus’ person and the works he did (and is still doing because the quran states that he is with God – not in a temporary place awaiting what his fate will be) far outstrips that of Mohamed. Of note from the quran are the following: 1. Jesus was conceived by a chaste virgin – Q. 3:42 2. Jesus was pure in conception and birth – Q. 4:171 3. He had the Holy Spirit – Q. 2:253 4. He is declared to be sinless – Q. 19:19 5. Those who follow JESUS are to be made superior to others – Q. 3:55 6. He is right now with God – Q. 4:158 7. He is called CHRIST JESUS (Q. 3:45 & 4:157). “Christ” meaning one that is anointed or CHOSEN to be special in all respect; chosen to save others; chosen with a special God-given purpose. A man that stands above all other men, including all the other messengers of God. One who has a superior and more excellent position above all other men. According to the quran he is “distinguished in this world and the hereafter and among those brought near”. None of ALL THESE applied to Mohamed. What Are the Implications of All these? If Jesus Christ is indeed all these then it means he is the TRUE LINK between man and God. It is just not enough to give him a PASSIVE acceptance as a person or as a ‘PROPHET’. He must be seen as one who is MORE THAN A PROPHET. If there is no name greater than his, then salvation AND ETERNITY WITH GOD can be found in none else apart from him. “For God so loved and dearly priced the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him (as Saviour) shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but that the world might be saved through him.” Jn. 3:16-17 5 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 1:19pm On Feb 18, 2017 |
Empiree:Ok. Let's look at things OBJECTIVELY. No harm intended. The quran's 114 Suras (chapters) are not "perfectly arranged", the Suras are not in chronological or in any subject matter sequence. The arrangement is simply by size, with the larger size appearing first. As a result, there is no logical continuity or transition between chapters - and sometimes in the chapters there are no clear linkages. In short, there is very little literary consistency in the quran. The Bible on the other hand is quite the opposite. It is more orderly. Therefore if a portion is telling a story the best approach to understanding it is to look at the WHOLE PICTURE and not to pick at portions of that story randomly. After understanding the whole picture application of the message being brought out in the story becomes easier. That's how it's done. So, whilst it is in order to pick a stand-alone verse in the quran and scrutinize it you cannot do the same for a portion in the Bible that has a flow and is more organised. Therefore the quran’s HATE LANGUAGE and HOSTILITY to non-muslims which are not based on say parables or the sort, neither are they CLEARLY SAID TO BE time-specific cannot be understood differently from what they simply say. Islam’s PROPAGANDA machinery today says the quran talks about PEACE with others and that it is accommodating toward non-muslims. The FACTS in the quran say a different thing. If the quran is to be held as superior to men's statements then those who say islam is a religion of PEACE are DECEIVING the rest of the world. To IGNORE facts does change the facts. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 4:30am On Feb 18, 2017 |
EmpireeI'm not the one saying it's a PARABLE. That is what the Bible states. Here's the quote from the Bible from Luke 19: 11: "While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. ...................... This is what went on to the verse 27 that seems to trouble you. So you need to see the story from the standpoint of the whole narrative and not just from a single verse. Ask majority of Jews today if they believe in Jesus and get their answer. Then come here to tell me he forgives themJesus Christ paid for the sins of the Jew and Gentile. So as the Bible says: "But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name--" JOHN 1:12 Therefore the issue is the same for all (you inclusive ): "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved ..." Acts 16:31 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 8:35am On Feb 17, 2017 |
[ b]Empiree[/b]I think someone has explained Luke 19:27 to you before now. BUT you appear not to carefully read posts, rather you skip over them or skim whatever you want from them. Let's help you understand it better. First, it is PART OF a PARABLE that started from Luke 19 verse 11. Therefore you cannot take that single verse out and try to weave your meaning into it: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. I trust you KNOW what a PARABLE is. So when you come to verse 27 the issue is HOW do you apply the parable. Jesus was not telling the listeners or readers to go and kill your enemies. It is the king in the parable who when he returned home said "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’" So can you apply the PARABLE now? yes, I'm unwilling bcus no amount of explanations make sense to you. Just as you are unwilling to accept Bible violence. You try to distance yourself from Old Testament but you support the same people who killed your GodAre you sure you are amongst those who killed our God? Even if you were there's a way out: “Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses." 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 11:21pm On Feb 16, 2017 |
EmpireeSo, do muslims believe that ONLY the quran is holy and the hadith is of no significance? What was the age of Mary the mother of your God when she gave birth to him and at what age she betrothed to Josef?. Your history shows that Josef was 99 yrs old and catholic said Mary was 12. So what's your fuss about Aisha and Muhammad? Why did God of Old Testament committed to wars against humanity?. Why did Jesus say to kill enemies who would not bow to him?. Why did Jesus say he did not bring peace but he came to divide people?The Christian does not belong to the Old Testament. Nothing in the portion of the Bible you quoted even suggests that Jesus was saying "Kill your enemies" It is you that is trying to infer that. You can quote Quran verses all you want. I have nothing to explain to you. And dont pretend Muslims have not quoted Bible's violence verses all the time from both Old and New Testaments. So your claims here is null and void. Your case is like kettle calling pot black.Viewers of this thread can CLEARLY SEE that you are unwilling to face up to the issues of the shortcomings and defects of the quran. You are also unwilling to do the same with your hero prophet - mohammed. You cannot refuse to face facts and still hope to arrive at the TRUTH. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Qur'an Is A Big Problem For The Atheists, Jews And The Christians by plainbibletruth: 3:19pm On Feb 16, 2017 |
Did Mohammed Write The Quran? Many Muslims believe that Quran they hold today is a replica of the original copy of the Quran which exists in heaven and was given to Mohammed from Allah. They also believe it is the one that has been in circulation since the time of the prophet. So while they think Christianity’s ‘original’ Bible is long lost they think the Quran is not. Was it Mohammed who PERSONALLY wrote what was ‘revealed’ to him? How did he compile the Quran or better still how was the Quran put together? The reality is as follows: 1. The Quran was originally verbal recitation. 2. These recitals were then written down by different people in various materials as much as they could recall from memory. 3. Decades after the death of Mohammed, Zaid ibn Thabith was saddled with the task of collecting and confirming which writings were genuine and then binding them into a single volume to become one book. 4. Even after this compilation some devotees of Mohammed remembered some areas that were part of the recitals but the Islamic leaders did not want to add anything else so as to project the “sacredness” of the book. 5. Mohammed therefore did not directly write anything. No historical record shows him as penning down the Quran. Muslims generally agree that Mohammed was not learned. 6. So can we be sure that those who wrote from memory wrote the right things? Did they write down exactly what they heard? Various texts emerged from the many writers leading to different sects. As they thought this situation could weaken the religion, powerful leaders of Islam decided to have only one rendition. When the leaders came out with the one version, they looked for, collected and destroyed as many variants as they could find. They then pronounced their assembled version the authentic Quran. Muslim scholars state the earliest copy of the Quran was written no earlier than 150 years after Mohammed died. Even after this “authorized’ version came out many objections came up, including from Mohammed’s widow, to the effect that portions of known recitations by Mohammed when he was alive were missing from this new compilation. Today there are still conflicting manuscripts of the Quran with textual variations: The text of the Quran in 37:103 reads "they had both submitted their wills (became Muslims)" while the Arabic text of the Tashkent MSS gives the exact opposite meaning, "they did not submitted their wills" (they did NOT become Muslims.) Can we be sure then that there aren’t several other missing portions that were not eventually included in this ‘Authorized’ version? Mohammed was even initially uncertain about the ‘visions’ that became part of the ‘revelations’ documented in the Quran. He did not know what to make of them; whether divine or demonic. He admitted this to his wife. It was his wife, Kadija that encouraged him to believe they were from God. The implications of these can be very far reaching. It was ONLY Mohammed that was credited with DIRECTLY receiving the ‘revelations’ from Allah and not any of these men who eventually wrote down from their MEMORY Mohammed’s recitation! So can we credit what these men wrote as “divinely” inspired? The claim of the Quran being the direct words of Allah is also questionable as we find portion quoting angels talking. In Sura 19: 64 we read: "And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful – The ‘we’ must refer to a number of angels talking here. So we find more of the words of angels and men in the Quran than those credited to Allah. All these shortcomings came about because in the course of compilation, the Quran suffered the defect of becoming a second-hand or third-hand information with the attendant result of such compilation – inaccuracies, misquotes and outright errors. So much for the claim of “divine origin” of the Quran. That is the history of the Quran. https://www.nairaland.com/2569621/did-mohammed-write-quran#37577258 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 2:45pm On Feb 16, 2017 |
Empiree:You are so predictable! Now you're trying to turn the issue away from what we've been on to something different. You either think this is trifle or you are engaging in another one of your diversionary tactic. I said "holy books". You're trying hard to TWIST it to "holy BOOK". All because you simply DON'T want to admit that you were WRONG in the first place. You couldn't disprove that story on Aisha & mohammed. All you've done is resort to: " You are NOT my teacher and you can NEVER ever be. I know what Islam teaches So dont play yourself" Is that story TAUGHT by islam or not? We're talking about love for fellow HUMAN BEINGS and suddenly you bring in Satan. Does that make sense to you? If you claim that those are love verses from the quran, the QUESTION then is how do you RECONCILE them with these: " Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not." - quran 2:216 " They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper." - quran 4:89 "Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment," - quran 5:33 " [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip." - quran 8: 12 " And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do." - quran 8:39 " O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous." - quran 9: 123 And these: quran 8:65; 9: 5, 14, 30, 38, 39, 41, 73; 17: 16; 18: 65-81; 25:52; 47:3-4, 35; 48:29; 61:4,9; 66:9.[/b] These are from only the quran and are not exhaustive. If we are to add those from the hadith and other Islamic literature then one can imagine the extent these verses of violence and hatred goes. So, can you reconcile these with what you quoted? [b]Have in mind that you people claim that Allah's words do not change. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: See Why Tithing Is Never A Command To Be Observed In Churches (Proofs) by plainbibletruth: 11:55am On Feb 16, 2017 |
petra1: Petra, Oh Petra! Look at that Bible verse again. It was the Lord himself that made that statement. If you refuse to acknowledge and understand what the Lord himself said then no wonder that accepting our comments here has been impossible for you to do. You said " There's difference between giving to brethren and giving to God", to which I pointed you to that verse of Scripture. Jesus is clearly saying here that giving to any of his brethren is giving to him. And all you can say is " There are different kinds of givings in the Bible" Be sincere and look again at your statements in the light of that verse. Is Jesus saying there that if one gives to a brother he IS NOT giving to him? Or is it the other way round? BTW, how do you give to God? Is it ONLY through tithe? Your refusal to admit and accept that the 'NEW' has come and the 'OLD' should give way is a stumbling in your spiritual life as a Christian. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 11:49pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
Empiree:There you go again! I DID NOT say "holy book". I said "holy books" - as in plural. Books not a single "book". Are you so quick to comment that you don't take time to carefully read what is presented to you? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 9:04pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
Empiree you should rather said you lack intellectual acumen when I answered you earlier. You simply playing yourself. You want to see EXACT phrase in the Quran as you put it. Just like you can't point out where Jesus said in the bible "I'm God worship me".I’m sorry to say that none of those verses you listed answered the question because none of them addressed the issue of PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE with non-muslims. Look at this for example: “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you” Luke 6: 27, 28 Can you give us anything near this in your holy book? I answered this as well. How do you reconcile your "peace" propaganda with this verse of the bible? PAIN! You know deep down your throw the article I posted hit you in the spineWhy should YOUR quote from some untrusted source move me? Do you get angry when a dog barks at you? and where in the QURAN it says prophet Muhammad (p) married 6yrs old girl? . Kindly post a reference from Quran please. If you can't you are a liar.Don’t state what I NEVER wrote and try to pin it on me. Ok? You made the above statement yourself not me. Let’s get that straight. I didn’t say that the quran said anything like that. You must be trying to TWIST things again. BUT: Are you familiar with this: “Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Madina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Umm Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said: "Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.” |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 2:28pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
Empiree:Relax!! Before you (conveniently) forget: You refused to answer my EARLIER questions – diversionary tactic – and now you’re using your questions to cover up your inabilities and you want me to be DECEIVED by you? Remember these? Where in the quran does it talk about living in peace with others? – You didn’t answer. How do you reconcile the quran’s HATE LANGUAGE and HOSTILITY to non-muslims with islam’s PROPAGANDA machinery today that says the quran talks about PEACE with others and that it is accommodating toward non-muslims? – You didn’t answer. What are your views on the comparisons in the table (on Jesus and mohammed) presented to you to comment on? – No reply! You can choose to run to ANY SOURCE you want to seek justification for your position on mohammed’s pedophilic life – it would still be part of your DECEPTION tactic. But you CANNOT find the BIBLE supporting you on this. On the other hand, if we are to STICK to your “holy books” we can unearth much ROT (which are FACTS for that matter) about the life of your hero prophet – hard nut for you to handle? I think you are the one who needs to look in the mirror and see if you are not a hypocrite. 3 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: ☆☆☆Lets Read This Book. The People Vs Mohammed☆☆☆ by plainbibletruth: 10:53am On Feb 15, 2017 |
Empiree:You muslims have been schooled to speak from both sides of your mouths. You've been taught diversionary tactics and other forms of deceit. Of course this started from your 'hero' and you guys mimic him very well as you are doing very well here. Morality meant nothing to him, and it would seem is same to you too. The end justified the means for him, and you his modern day pupils are following the same path. Tell me, who would you rather believe; a thief, rapist, torturer and an unstable person OR a selfless, caring and considerate person? If you choose wrongly your eternity is at stake. You have been warned! 4 Likes |
), rewind to years back when we gave him tough times to the extent he went on exile. 
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