₦airaland Forum

that aside,these practices today are islamic practices regardless of how you view or judge their source to be.furthermore,it is clear for even the blind to see that while muslims uphold them in the true spirit of following the prophets of God and [b]Muhammad (sa) "glorifying" Jesus as we are told in the new testament about the next comforter to come after Jesus,[/b]we muslims practice our religion as the prophets did.but as for you christians,even the practices in the new testament you do not even uphold.

Blasphemmmmmmm in rampant,

LagosShia: must bring to your attention that none of the prophets mentioned in the bible up to Jesus claimed that or named the religion of God to be "judaism" or "christianity".to us Muslims,we believe Islamic teachings preceeded Muhammad (sa) because whatever the previous prophets taught we believe in them and the "Quran" orders us to love and respect them.

Liessssssssssssssss! here are just a few Quranic verses contradicting ur lies!

Quran (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah, Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

Quran (4:52) - Those (Christians) are they whom Allah hath cursed,

Quran (4:47) - O you (Jews) who have been given the Book! ""believe that which We have revealed"", verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.


The kuran contains dozens of verses that specifically describe Jews and christians in the ugliest, most hateful terms. Just leave thise ur pretending story of respecting the previews prophets.

[quote author=bashy_demy link=topic=819003.msg9771233#msg9771233 date=1323957207][b]And are you saying God is not perfect to have make Sarah pregnant first? [/b]But he want someone before Isaac cos he know Isaac will be the last born and Ishmael will be the first and that was why God delay Sarah till them and also God use Ishmael proof to Abraham,  and mind you if Sarah waited she could be the one to give biorth to Ishmael but God only saying he is at work and can bring out King from the midst of Slave,  so Ishmael is from the womb os how maid and God make him the head is Abraham Family[/quote]who told u this? as u ve failled to respond to my question, instead asking question, this is making u to misunderstand everything. Did i said God was impatient? First born or last born, What God commanded took place.Do u think your arguement can change it? now let me put things clearer to u.

It is plain and simple! man's failure to trust in God is what this issue lies.

In Genesis 16 shows us Abraham and his wife Sarah panicking about not having an heir when they were old, so they decided (at the urging of "Sarah" to take matters into their own hands by having Abraham sleep with his Sera's Egyptian maid Hagar. The result of this union was a son they named Ishmael.

In Genesis 16:13-16 the Angel of the God told Hagar (who resented the fact she had conceived) that her son Ishmael would live and end up being ", a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; and he will live to the east of all his brothers."

When Abraham (then still known as Abram before God changed his name) was 99 years old, God appeared and made a covenant with him, promising to make him the father of many nations , which meant at some point he would have another heir and that that other heir, and not Ishmael, would be the one with whom GOD would make his next covenant: 

Genesis 17: 1-23) This king was mentioned after Ishmael birth, he did said he will make princes from Ishmael though, but he never mentioned king for Ishmael. u must take note.

1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7[b]And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy "seed"[/b](not seeds)after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy "seed" [/b]after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy[b] seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. (israelites of course)

9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy [/b]seed[/b] after thee in their generations.

10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy [/b]seed[/b] after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

16[b]And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; "kings" of people shall be of her.[/b]

17[b]Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed,[/b] and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

18And Abraham said unto God, O that "Ishmael" might live before thee! (He wished to apply the law of first born heir here) But God speaks forther,

19[b]And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name "Isaac": and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.[/b]

But Ishmael was not left behind, see how God blessed him,

20And as for "Ishmael", I have heard thee: Behold, [/b]I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.[/b]

God still peaking for Isaacs blessings, this was his reason for visithin Abraham now, let me finish, i ve answered u of Ishmael, he continues,

21[b]But my covenant will I establish with Isaac,[/b] which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

22And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

23And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

With what u ve seen, u should be able to know. dont tell me the old testament is corrupts because, it the only book that made u know Abraham existed.

The book of Ezekiel reveal how Satan has used human agents whenever possible in his war against the kingdom of god. Ezekiel, with prophetic insight, sees through this human agent to the real source of activities against God's people. Satan is the route of Rebellion. Anyone who embrace the Jesus as the light, will be saved.

italo:
Lol @plappville,

Ok, I'm the liar. Catholics worship the devil, Mary, Saints and any other thing that is not God, that's what you're saying,right?

Can you now buzz off and let me talk with any one who has a brain?

My dear u ve the chioce to accept what u like, the church is inserting Satanic doctrine gradually, if u refused to see this even with all the bible verses as prove, then that is ur problem. Its a free will, we eaither choose the right way, or the wrong one.

People u believe they ve brain are those who will turn the bible aside like u. ur keyboard is with u, i ve never stoped u from using it. Why now do i ve to permit u?

proo212:
Plappville, thanks for this. James 2:21 and Hebrews 11:17-18 also confirms this.

But ultimately the discussion really is about the permissive will of God and the perfect will of God. Sarah tried to move God's hand by her impatience and unbelief by giving her maidservant.

God said she will be with child but she doubted and did not believe,  and in her unbelief she suggested Abraham have an offspring through her maidservant and that will make her happy.

Perfect will =  Sarah/Isaac
Permissive will = Hagar/Ishmael

Thats my point, Its a kind of lesson, we learn from the bible. When God promised us, we ought to be patient with him. the result of impatient is not always pleasant.

[quote author=bashy_demy link=topic=819003.msg9770948#msg9770948 date=1323954545]With that bo9ld i now believe you are so stewpid and ignorance of what you dont know, are you saying God does not have the power to make Sarah pregnant? and are you also saying God make mistake for making Hagar pregnant and have the first child? if not then God is great and know everything even the seen and unseen he know what is happening now and there after so never use bad words against Ishmael cos he is the first son of Abraham. I mean the son that proof Abraham to be a real man as your first child proof your husband to be a real man.[/quote]WHERE DID U SEE THAT I SAID GOD HAS NOT THE POWER TO MAKE SERA PREGNANT?

Sera wasn't patient to wait for Gods promises, so with her Impatience, seeing that age is not in her favour, she choosed Her maid, that was how ISHMAEL came all about. Abraham did fancy her ideal, but she insisted and there comes Ishmael. If Sera had waited for Gods promise, do u think Ishmael will be the issue today? mr misinterpreter gently plz!

Amazing! You are so incredible that you love the word of God so much and you oppose “changing the word of God”.let me show you how you Christians change the word of God regarding this issue of the first born of Abraham who is Ishmael.you are only speaking out of blindness and unimaginable ignorance or you’re living in denial of the truth if you know it and have read your bible well!

Hebrews 11:17-18 says Isaac was the only son of Abraham, this is for a special reason, God was the commandant here, not the law. Its a specific situation. AND ABRAHAM HAD NO CHIOCE THAN TO OBEY GODS COMMAND.
Despite the existence of Ishmael, when the Binding occurs, God says Isaac is Abraham's "only son". See (Genesis 22:1-2):The bible also told us that Abraham was buried by his two sons.

Genesis 25:8-9 ) 8:Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people. 9:Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, east of Mamre,


The truth is that, Abraham had Ishmael by the handmaiden Hagar. But Isaac was the child of promise, not Ishmael.
Regardless of hw glorious Isaac is ,nothing changes the fact that Abraham had another son. however, the God knows wht the future may produce as regard his convenant, H commanded Abraham. Ishmael and his mother Hagar were sent away in Genesis 21:14 and seem to have basically been outcasts. Its therefore possible to see, Isaac as Abraham's only son, in this sense. The God that let it like that knew why. Even if pepole try to modify it  with thier mouth, its still stands. Its the divine word of God.

U should save your soul, if u don't do that now, then when? U ve decided to ignore Gods word by that of man's authority. Was Apostle Peter the giver of these laws? during his time, did he creat laws on Mary's image and upside-down cross etc? Do u believe Apostle Peter will be proud that the upside-down cross has become an idol in the house of God? check urself, your salvation is in your parm.

"Now the Spirit (of God) expressly says
       that in latter times some (church leaders ,  reverends, ministers, rabbis, priests,
bishops, popes) will DEPART from the faith,
       giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons
       (opposing things the Bible says ,  in direct opposition to God's Word)
       speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
       forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods . . ."
       (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

A member wrote this,

qoute from @free123: Islam is getting stronger day by day, church of satan is growing stronger everyday. Does it by anyway show that God is with them? When people claim that catholic is getting stronger on account that God is with it, i quickly refer to them other sects that are even stronger.

Come to think of it, heavenly race is not by multitude, it is an individual race.

Broad and wide is the way that leads to destruction and many, even multitude are found in it. I advise you to choose the narrow way for eternal life and happiness.

and u attacked him and accused him of lieing against the catholics. I decided to prove u wrong because @free123 was right in his comment. see it below:

[size=14pt]

Quote from: italo on Yesterday at 10:24:17 AM
It is you that said the Catholic Church is growing stronger everyday. I don't see where anyone else said that. As far as I know, the Church is dwindling in numbers in the Europe and North America but growing in Africa, Asia and is still very strong in Latin America. But is this the indication that we need to know that God is with it? No.

The Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded with Peter as its head and it continues to minister to the world with the teachings of the apostles in word and in tradition. These teachings have come down to us through an unbroken line of apostolic succession from the apostles to the early church fathers to the present day priests.

That is the indication we need. God's one true church, not a 'church' that was founded by a greedy pastor just to make money or an adulterous king just to satisfy his carnal desire.

"The gates of hades will not overcome it", Jesus said 2011yrs ago.

2011 years later, the gates of hades have not overcome it - and never will. That is the indication we need.

Or was Jesus talking about RCCG, or Deeper life, or Cele or any of the other 35000 protestant shops we have in the world today?

NO!

Qoute from plappville: To the bold, the Catholics do claim rapid growth, and also claim the church is in the bible.
U personally ve said this times without numbers in previews post.
see a post of a Catholic claims that prove @free123 has not lied.

Quote
Oby1 (f)
Re: Why Infant Baptism Should Stop!
« #174 on: November 29, 2011, 03:02 PM »
My dear all I can say is that your argument is baseless. The Catholic church is well rooted, many of your kind has come and gone. The wind has blown and is still blowing, but the church of God is still growing from strength to strength and why is it still standing because of God's word upon it, "The gate of hell shall not prevail over it" or can't you see it. If the Church is not from God it would have collapsed long ago like others that have gone.

Please lets channel our strength on the mission God has sent us to do, Go and make disciples of all nation (the soul is more important.

[/size]

Tell me, did @free123 lied here? NO, u are the lair because its true all catholic members including u claim the growth of the church is as a result of God.

italo:
You just want to engage me in your usual senseless discussions but I don't want to waste my time and energy. Nobody can free you from a lost mind. Only you can free yourself - if you're feeling.

But let me just show that you're the LIAR here: are you not the one who said this in the other thread? Admit the truth for once, 'mrs born-again'

Even after I showed you where Peter said "Judas purchased a land with the reward of INIQUITY" in Acts, you still said the Bible didn't say they sinned. Instead of admitting the truth.

With wht ur reqouted here, did u read that i said the action they took, the betraying and the deyning was not sin? NO I said when they were with Jesus they were not sinners, u were the one that brought the issue of peter cut off ears etc to proved they sinned, That was not my origina meanning of saying they were not sinner.

Will they be sinning at same time be best friend of Jesus? they sinned at a particular seconds, mins, or hours, and that is the "betraying and "deyning"
And these are for the fullfilment of Jesus been crisified on the cross. Jesus predited these will happend and it happend. If u labelled them as continueing in sin why they were with Christ, then what difference were they with the unbelievers?

U were saying it as in the kind of dialy sin "lie" people like "you" tolerate.

U are only a liar u know? I told u i ve not seen where the bible told that their action was a sinful one, so I can't conclude if they sin or not. I said, the betrayal of Jesus by Judas was all for a  fulfillment. If Judas did not sell Jesus, would he ve died for us? Why do u people try to change what other people say?

I told u i was onced a Catholic, and then was converted and became born again, so i left Catholic, what is wrong in changing my faith?

U wanted to know if i ve sinned and i presented to u verses that suits my present state, u refused it, are u me? what makes u think u can think in my place? I know where your anger lies, all these lies u are bring here is just as a result of my constant exposing of certain false teaching of the catholic. Remeber u are not the church, I must expose the evil penetrating in the house of God, not even u can stop me.

The Bible clearly warns many churches will "DEPART from the faith" . . .

"Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you
concerning our common salvation,
I found it necessary ("compelled" to write to you
exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith
which was once for all delivered to the saints.
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, (todays church leaders)
who long ago were marked out for this condemnation,
UNGODLY men ,who turn the grace of our God into lewdness . . .
(who ignore, deny, create doubt, oppose, or refuse to teach all of God’s word in the Bible)
But I want to remind you, though you once knew this,
that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
afterward DESTROYED those
who did NOT believe (God's Word)."
(Jude 1:3-6)

don33310:
This debate is a  clear one,who is the first son of Abraham? The answer is Ishmael and God told Abraham to sacrifice his ONLY SON(which is Ishmael)God did not say your second son Issac,the only son that Abraham had then was Ishmael.

Who are u to change GODs word?

(Genesis 21:12)
12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring[a] will be reckoned.



Even the "Torah" says that Ishmael mocked Isaac and often tried to frighten him. Then Sarah insisted that Abraham send Hagar and Ishmael away if Isaac were to be prevented from following Ishmael's evil ways.

Abraham was said not to be ok with Sera's decision, this may only be for the fact that Ishmael is his son, not because of Hager Sera's maid. But God told him to do as Sarah wished and that he will make Ishmael the father of a great nation. Do u think God is bias? He knew Ishael was not surposed to be Abrahams son, if not for the Impatient of Sera. The ture wife gave the true son. How did Hager even connected to the Mohammed? Hager was from Mizraim(Egypt), while Mohammed from the city of Macoraba in Dedan and Sheba(Saudi Arabia).
Let me see a good and true details of how Mohammed is a descendant of Ishael, hope someone can provide that.

[size=14pt]Can we not invite Mary4s spirit into our house?[/size]


1) If we invite the Spirit of Mary into our house, that Spirit will surely come, but know ye that it will be a demon. Why? becos, Jesus said that He would send us God the Holy Spirit if we obey Him.
He never mentioned that we should pray to him for the return of the Spirit of His departed earthly mother.

2) If we invite and idol of Mary into our house, we need to ask ourselves these questions:

God of the Bible says He hates idols. (Multiple verses for that matter). So, who gave the Pope permission to make idols of wood and stone? else Idols are not of God, so its the Devil's Ideal.

Since the Mother of Jesus was a faithful Jewess, and did surely not make idols, how would she react if someone claimed they have an idol of her in their house? would she approve you breaking the Law of Moses? NON

3) Since the first Messianic Jews observed the Law of Moses, and did not make idols, paintings or drawings of the Jewish Mother of Jesus. How do the Catholic priests know that these idols, of who they claim is the Queen of Heaven, is the mother of Jesus? No bible prove that It is idolatery, too much Idolatery in the church today.

Facing the 2rd topic on adoration./worship of Mary.

[size=14pt]2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary?.[/size]

(Luke 11:27-28)
27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”


(Exodus 20:4-6)Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

If u study this verse very well it tells us, Jesus first and only priority is that we should obey the word of God.
Of course i love my mother, but she is not the word of God, she is to obey Gods word like u and everyone else.

The book "Theotokos." witten by Pope John Paul 11. A book of unbiblical manipulations on MARY's divinity.A book promoting Idolatery.

Karol Jozef Wojtyla was born in 1920 and elected pope in October 16, 1978. It was then that he took the name John Paul II and reigned as pope for 27 years. He wrote various books, but the one focused upon here is on the fabricated Mary of Catholicism. Certainly, one sure way to know the official teachings of Roman Catholicism on Mary, besides going to Vatican Council II and The Catechism of the Catholic Church, is to go to the pope himself. Such can be easily done by examining the book entitled, Theotokos.

This book is comprised of seventy general audience talks on the Catholic Mary which were delivered by the Pope himself from September 1995 to November 1997 (p. 11). Hence, these are up to date and given by their supreme teaching authority. While Catholicism claims the pope speaks infallibly only at times, it still declares him (even when he isn’t speaking infallibly) to be the supreme pastor and teacher of the faithful, as we would anticipate. The following papal quotes will be accepted, without question, by many trusting Catholics. To them this is the absolute truth about Mary from God’s leader on the Earth. The problem is they are lethally different from the Biblical record. Let’s examine the evidence.

                                 Did Mary Take Part in Calvary’s Sacrifice?

YES, says Catholicism and Pope John Paul II. John Paul II would have us all believe the following, according to that book:

When the Son began his mission, Mary remained in Nazareth, even though this separation did not exclude significant contacts such as the one at Cana. Above all, it did not prevent her from taking part in the sacrifice of Calvary (pp. 18,19).

Just as Eve caused death, so Mary, with her “yes,” became “a cause of salvation” for herself and for all mankind (p. 26).

Mary is queen not only because she is Mother of God, but also because, associated as the New Eve with the New Adam, she cooperated in the work of the redemption of the human race (p. 210).

On Calvary, Mary united herself to the sacrifice of her Son and made her own maternal contribution to the work of salvation, which took the form of labor pains, the birth of the new humanity (p. 234).

In contrast to the Catholic teaching that Mary cooperated in our redemption at the sacrifice of Calvary, we read in Scripture that it was only by the blood of Jesus shed on the cross that redemption for mankind was purchased. His blood alone, with no mention of Mary’s so-called contribution, brought about salvation:


He [Jesus] did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. (Heb 9:12)

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. (1 Pet 1:18,19)

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. (Col 1:19,20)

As clear as all of that is, the Scriptures add to that by stating that blood must be shed to bring about forgiveness of sin. No mention of non-bloody sufferings, such as what Mary experienced, can do that:

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. (Heb 9:22)

As kind and as loving as it can be stated, there is not even one single inference to Mary in these Scriptures, or anywhere else in the entire Bible, which would suggest that Mary co-operated with Jesus’ blood sacrifice to bring about anyone’s salvation. To teach otherwise is to downplay Jesus’ incomprehensible blood sacrifice for our salvation and strip glory from Him. Remember, the Bible is to be Christian’s sole source for teaching and correction (2 Tim. 3:16,17).

« #103 on: December 14, 2011, 08:55 PM »
Plappville and co are in for it.

@Plappville,the Alexander the great is not the one the Quran mentioned,cos he died at 30's and he was an idol worshipper, sleeps with men and women,Dhul-Qarnian was a monotheist,hope you know its not only Alexander the great that was Alex,and Alexander the great was not said to have built any wall from history,any attempt to coin in Alexander the great in to the Quran is false ,besides the name Alexander was not in the Quran but Dhul-Qarnian.

What are defending blindly, are u addressing those old aboki tht ve never set eyes on the kuran but yet accept what they are told? Must muhammed mention his name? He mention his title and made drastical error with his name. U re here blabbaring.
Is this the only error he made? I will creat a thread on all his errors let me see how many u can defend.

U ve spoken well sir, so Jesus is to be blamed because Mohammed was unable to prove himself in public as a true divine prophet. Did u read well my text? I said made mention of some excuses made by  prophets with no divine power of miracle. That is exactly where Muhammed fall. He could ve proved himself. God does ever prove himself by his prophets with signs withnessed  by doubter etc.

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)."

The bold sounds like one framed up tales, does he ve to call his follower to look, where is the self confident? Was he not sure of himself? When moses manifested God befor king Of Egypt, by turning his rod into snake, know ye that The the physicians also turn thiers into snake, but as God is the greatest Moses defeated them with Greater Miracles that is how God proved
himself to the Egyptians, miracle upon miracles in public eyes. So why is it that only Muhammed's follower
Are his eye Withness? I read in multiple Islamic articels that says, A real Islamist refused to accept that Mohammed performed any miracle apart from the Kuran given to him by allah(god)There are no concrete prove from outsider as eye withnesses for his claimes.

Image123:
All this talk about deep truth and greater light is impure nonsense and man's doctrine or worse still, satanic.

My broda small small na, what makes it satanic? I guess she told the correct thing. Ur comment was also good.
But u know as christian we ought to fast. She has a fait already, i strongly believe if she follow her faith, he mum will be healed in Jesus name amen.

It is a real pagan feast if looked at what the bible says. Galatians 4:10-11 condemns the keeping of such holy days becos they
Are not Biblical.
The early church did not begin to celebrate Christmas until the 4th
the Roman church needed a way to convert the pagans who worship Mithra, the god of light,  this was how christmas came all about. A feltish festival that was later replaced with a religion. Try to do an online research on the origin of Christmas.
U will get the full details of its origin.

Since i confessed Christ, I ve not meet anyone to pray for me personally, but i must say that, i do partake in the church congregational prayer from whoever that minister. The bible taught us hw to pray, so why meeting someone for prayer.
why ur question?

UnGodly way to handle Godly matters, making mock of people in Gods house is forbiden.
Tithing is not by force, if this is happening in a particular church then the member are the curse. Why not call the issue unGodly befor the congregation and then see if the whole church wont agree to it.
Keep ur mouth short, watch things been done unGodly way will make u remain in same position.
Only the affordables are recongnised which is wrong.

And what about the inverted cross and the bend cross ? I will present pictures as soon as possible. . . 
"A cross that is not broken, but turned upside down. It indicates the rejection of Jesus Christ and contempt for the gospel of salvation. Inverted symbols are typical of the opposite values pursued by Satanists. people who are sometimes sacrificed to Satan on "Black Sabbath" are crucified upside down in accordance with this tradition."

“, even now are there many antichrists…” —1st John 2:18

It is easy to find Satanic websites and occult stores where you can purchase all types of items with inverted crosses.
 The "Upside Down Cross” symbolizes mockery and rejection of Jesus. necklaces are worn by many Satanists.
It can often be seen on Rock singers and their album covers."

“, and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light”
2 Corinthians 11:14. Do research on catholic history and judge for urself.

The Bible never mentions Simon Peter's death. Acts of the Apostles mentions the imprisonment and miraculous release of Peter, but does not say anything about his subsequent death, even though the book was written around the end of the century, long after Peter would have died.

The mid-second century pope Anicetus (156-166) said that Peter was beheaded by Nero in Rome. The reason for this claim was that he had became locked in a conflict with Polycarp of Smyrna. Polycarp had tried to win the argument by insisting that he spoke with the authority of the apostle John. In response, Anicetus told of Peter's beheading and said that he spoke with the authority of Peter. Then in the third century, the Church Father Origen changed the story somewhat, saying that Peter, condemned to crucifixion, felt himself unworthy to be crucified the same way as his Lord, and so chose crucifixion upside down.

Since then even without concrete proof from the bible, the catholics have been practicing the use of the upside-down cross, in honoring Apostle Peter.

In Jeremiah 7:18, God is upset with the Israelites for worshipping a false goddess called the "queen of heaven". However, just because God rebuked them for worshipping the false queen of heaven, doesn't mean that we cannot pay honour to the true Queen of Heaven, the Blessed Mother.
That type of thinking would lead you to believe that just because people worship a false god that they call "god," we, therefore, should not call the true God, by that same name, God, because that's the same title the idolaters use for their god! That is faulty logic and it makes no sense whatsoever.

The revelation u qouted didnt refares to the Mother of Jesus. Revelation was from Christ direct to John. Do u think it was for Gods people to be confused? Not at all. The all problem of u people is that u add to the bible. What is not cleay stated should be assumed. God was upset with this practise,yet the catholic still insisted by saying their own queen of heaven is the true one. Mind u, there alot of Evil queen of heaven.
What are the those golden images of Jesus cross , angels and Mary carrying infant doing in the church alter? Are these not idolateries? Doesnt the bible kicked agains gravy images? Satan and his demons must ve enough influence in them.

Read ur bible and respect its teaching ooooo, rescure ur soul and stop been ignorants.

what difference does it matter to you? what is your problem with people honoring the Blessed Mother of God?

Rebuke urself for saying this plz, let me believe it was a mistake

1corinthians 5:13) while you leave to God's judgement those who are outside? Remove the wicked man from among you

Who is the outsider that should be left for God to judge and who is the insider to be removed/pulged?

It is total blindness, u think they cannot read the and see that the church teaching in outside Christ authority?
They may not know before, but most of them that ve internet access may ve been coming across good historian articles revealing the false teaching of Catholic. But if they re spiritually blind, they will believe they know better than history. But they will us this same history only when it suits their interest. For catholics, no respect fo the bible. Its all man made law practicing.
A church they claim is Jesus church yet in Idolatery. I will move to the next subject soon. Ist clear they couldnt defend the church anymore. @italo of all people, after reading all the comments, seeing the bible verses backing dem, instead of admitting, he pretend to give a shallow excuse.

italo:
Thank you. You expect me to be wasting my time with you when you can't even understand that INIQUITY = SIN. I have told you where the problem lies. The earlier you start praying for its solution, the better for you. Just stop trying to learn anything for the main time. You won't understand, from the look of things.

Let me discuss with this Hutching guy, he seems to be capable of understanding issues - I think.

What does iniquity got to do with BISHOPS PROHIBITION OF GETTING MARRIED BY THE POPE? A PRIMARY SCHOOL CHILD KNOW THAT INIQUITY IS SAME AS SIN, U ARE UNABLE TO DEFEND THOSE QUESTIONS I ASKED U. So ur excuses is shallow. @Hutching guy has given u advise, do some research on the PAST of catholic, u will come back and say, oh PLAPPVILLE, i ve wronged the lord for not to have been reading my bible.

The Bible Claims that Miracles Prove God Exists and Is the True God.
God's divine miracles is authentic and can hold strong claims universally when there are eye- witnesses.
Persons/people who can report their experiences. In the case of Jesus, all the miracles performed by him was withnessed by the apostles John and Matthew. Even, non-Christian writers such as Josephus a (Jewish), Tacitus a (Roman) and the writers of the Jewish Talmud corroborate the fact that it was claimed widely that he worked miracles. When God speaks His word, he understands we need proof it's his and not man's.
God knows This is the only way a the people can validate if the miracle is from him or not.

Fake miracles often refuse to do miracles if doubters are present, or they excuse their failure on the grounds that the observers lack faith. They also do miracls only in presence of their followers. But when men of God had true power to do miracles, they were not afraid to do them in the presence of people who had questions or doubts, or even people who openly opposed their teaching. So that observers could investigate for themselves and judge.

(Moses) and (JESUS) are good examples of true divine miracles from God. Miracles don in Publics, miracles that a whole nation of Israel withnessed etc.

(Muhammed's approx. AD 600), his miracles are eaither withnessed by his follower or only Muslims. And they are not met the Gods divine miracles statistics as in MOSES AND JESUS. Now lets see all the three and their miracles.

(Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) (approx. 550 BC). Absolutelly no record of Buddha either working miracles or claiming to work miracles.

(Confucius (approx. 500 BC). Same situAtion. There is no reliable evidence that he either worked miracles or claimed to do so.

(Joseph Smith) claimed he has the power to work miracles by the Holy Spirit. But for example, at a key meeting in the first temple in Kirtland, Ohio, Joseph Smith completely failed to perform a number of faith healings. This failure was so complete that the meeting broke up and his followers went home disillusioned. Bottom line, Joseph Smith was not able to do public and irrefutable miraculous signs, despite a number of folk stories and anecdotal and unreliable accounts.

JUST TO NAME A FEW OF THEM.

[size=14pt]MIRACLES OF JESUS[/size]

Healing the possessed man in Capernaum, mark 1:23-28 and 4:33-37
Healing of Peter's Mother-in-law, matt 8:14-15, mark1:29-31 and luke4:38-39
Cleansing of a Leper, matt 8:1-4, mark 1:40-45 and luke 5:12-16
Turning Water to Wine at Cana
The Miraculous Catch of Fish
Healing of a Paralytic
Cure of the Man with a Withered Hand
Healing of Official's Son in Capernaum
Healing of Centurion's Servant
Raising of Widow's Son at Nain
Calming of the Storm at Sea
Cure of the Gerasene Demoniac
Healing of a Paralytic in Bethesda
Cure of Woman afflicted with Hemorrhage
Raising of Jairus' daughter
Healing Two Blind Men
Healing A Possessed Mute
Feeding the 5000
Walking on Water
Healings at Gennesaret
Cure of Syro-Phoenician's Daughter
Healing of Deaf-Mute
Feeding the 4000
Restores Sight to the Blind Man of Bethsaida
Healing of a Man Born Blind
Casting Out of a Dumb Demon
Curing a Demon-possessed Mute
Casting Out an Unclean Spirit
Healing a possessed stooped Woman
Healing of A Man with Dropsy
Cleansing of Ten Lepers
Healing of Blind Bartimaeus of Jericho
Healing of Servant's Ear during Arrest
Healing of Two Blind Men at Jericho
The Raising of Lazarus

[size=14pt]MIRACLES OF MOSES[/size]

1. The children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt by Pharaoh, they were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied and the land was full with them. Exodus 1: 7.

2. The Egyptians made their lives bitter, the king of Egypt pharaoh order to kill all born son, but if it is daughter, and then she shall live. EXODUS 1:13 to 16. EXODUS 1:22.

3. MOSES 3 month old in the bulrushes, in the river. EXODUS 2: 1 to 4.

4. Pharaoh daughter found the child Moses in the river. EXODUS 2:8 to 9.

5. The child grew and they called him MOSES. EXODUS 2:10.

6. In those days, Moses grown, he killed an Egyptian that was smiting a Hebrew. EXODUS 2:11 to 12.

7. Moses left Egypt to the median desert and lived by the well. EXODUS 2:15 The priest of MEDIAN gave Moses ZIPPORAH his daughter as a wife, and she bares him a son named GRESHAM, EXODUS 2: 21 to 22.

8. GOD spoke unto Moses in the burning bush telling Moses (GO BACK TO EGYPT AND BRING MY PEOPLE OUT OF EGYPT) EXODUS 3: 1 to 7.

9. GOD spoke unto Moses, behold the children of Israel are in bondage tell pharaoh to let them go. EXODUS 6: 5 to 7.

10. GOD telling Moses how to make a miracle in the front of Pharaoh (showing the power of GOD) EXODUS 7:9.

11. Moses turns the rod unto a serpent, EXODUS 7: 10. EXODUS 7:14.

12. The water of the river became blood. EXODUS 7:17.

13. Moses smites all the borders of Egypt with frogs. EXODUS 8:2.

14. Moses smites the dust of the earth and became lice. EXODUS 8:17.

15. Moses sends a grievous mourner upon the cattle, the Egyptians cattle died but the Israelite did not. EXODUS 9:3. EXODUS 9:6 to 7.

16. Moses smites the Egyptians by the dust of the furnace. EXODUS 9:8.

17. Moses sends rain of hail. EXODUS 9:18.

18. Moses sends the locusts over Egypt. EXODUS 10:14.

19. Moses sends the darkness in all the land of Egypt for 3 days. EXODUS 10:22.

20. GOD said, every first born in the land of Egypt from Pharaoh to the first born of the maidservant, And all first born of the beast. EXODUS 12:29.

21. Pharaoh tells Moses to take his people and go. EXODUS 12: 31 to 32.

22. The children of Israel journeyed, on the way to the Promised Land. EXODUS 12:37.

23. Pharaoh changed his mind about letting the Israelite to go he took 600 chariots and went after them. EXODUS 14:5 to 7.

24. Pharaoh drew nigh by the children of Israel. EXODUS 14:10 to 14.

25. The LORD said to Moses (LIFT UP YOUR ROD AND DIVIDE THE RED SEA: AND LET THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SHALL GO ON DRY LAND IN MIDST OF THE SEA) EXODUS 14:15 to 17.

26. The LORD tells Moses, stretch out your hand over the sea, and cause the sea to go back by A strong wind and let the children of Israel went on dry land in the midst of the sea. EXODUS 14: 21 to 22.

27. The LORD said to Moses stretch out your hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians. EXODUS 14: 26 to 29.

28. Then, on the way to the Promised Land, the children of Israel murmured against Moses, cause of hunger. EXODUS 16:2 to 7.

29. The LORD shall send rain bread from heaven. EXODUS 16: 31.

30. The children of Israel did eat MANNA for forty years in the wilderness, during their journey to the Promised Land. EXODUS 16:35.

31. The LORD said to Moses smites the rock and there shall water come out. EXODUS 17:4 to 6.

32. The LORD said to Moses, I SHALL COME TO MY PEOPLE IN THE FIRE. EXODUS 19: 9 to 16. EXODUS 19: 17 to 21.

MOSES AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

33. The LORD spoke to Moses and gave the Ten Commandments.

[size=14pt]MIRACLES OF MOHAMMED[/size]

Splitting of the Moon

"The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder" [Qur'an 54:1]

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 388:

Narrated Abdullah:

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)."

Food Multiplication

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 780:

Narrated Jabir:

My father had died in debt. So I came to the Prophet and said, "My father (died) leaving unpaid debts, and I have nothing except the yield of his date palms; and their yield for many years will not cover his debts. So please come with me, so that the creditors may not misbehave with me." The Prophet went round one of the heaps of dates and invoked (Allah), and then did the same with another heap and sat on it and said, "Measure (for them)." He paid them their rights and what remained was as much as had been paid to them.

Water Multiplication

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 779:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Apostle , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him).

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 777:

Narrated Al-Bara:

We were one-thousand-and-four-hundred persons on the day of Al-Hudaibiya (Treaty), and (at) Al-Hudaibiya (there) was a well. We drew out its water not leaving even a single drop. The Prophet sat at the edge of the well and asked for some water with which he rinsed his mouth and then he threw it out into the well. We stayed for a short while and then drew water from the well and quenched our thirst, and even our riding animals drank water to their satisfaction.

Supplication for Rain

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 115:

Narrated Anas:

A man came to the Prophet on a Friday while he (the Prophet) was delivering a sermon at Medina, and said, "There is lack of rain, so please invoke your Lord to bless us with the rain." The Prophet looked at the sky when no cloud could be detected. Then he invoked Allah for rain. Clouds started gathering together and it rained till the Medina valleys started flowing with water. It continued raining till the next Friday. Then that man (or some other man) stood up while the Prophet was delivering the Friday sermon, and said, "We are drowned; Please invoke your Lord to withhold it (rain) from us" The Prophet smiled and said twice or thrice, "O Allah! Please let it rain round about us and not upon us." The clouds started dispersing over Medina to the right and to the left, and it rained round about Medina and not upon Medina. Allah showed them (the people) the miracle of His Prophet and His response to his invocation.

Lights to guide Companions

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 454:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Two of the companions of the Prophet departed from him on a dark night and were led by two lights like lamps (going in front of them from Allah as a miracle) lighting the way in front of them, and when they parted, each of them was accompanied by one of these lights till he reached their (respective) houses.

Crying of the stem of the Date-palm Tree

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 783:

Narrated Ibn Umar:

The Prophet used to deliver his sermons while standing beside a trunk of a datepalm. When he had the pulpit made, he used it instead. The trunk started crying and the Prophet went to it, rubbing his hand over it (to stop its crying).

The expulsion of a liar's corpse by the Earth

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814:

Narrated Anas:

There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die, and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is the act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them." They again dug the grave deeply for him, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is an act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them." They dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and had to leave him thrown (on the ground).

The Speech of the Wolf

Volume 3, Book 39, Number 517:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "While a man was riding a cow, it turned towards him and said, 'I have not been created for this purpose (i.e. carrying), I have been created for sloughing.l" The Prophet added, "I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar believe in the story." The Prophet went on, "A wolf caught a sheep, and when the shepherd chased it, the wolf said, 'Who will be its guard on the day of wild beasts, when there will be no shepherd for it except me?' "After narrating it, the Prophet said, "I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar too believe it." Abu Salama (a sub-narrator) said, "Abu Bakr and 'Umar were not present then."

It has been written that a wolf also spoke to one of the companions of the Prophet near Medina as narrated in Fath-al-Bari:Narrated Unais bin 'Amr: Ahban bin Aus said, "I was amongst my sheep. Suddenly a wolf caught a sheep and I shouted at it. The wolf sat on its tail and addressed me, saying, 'Who will look after it (i.e. the sheep) when you will be busy and not able to look after it? Do you forbid me the provision which Allah has provided me?' " Ahban added, "I clapped my hands and said, 'By Allah, I have never seen anything more curious and wonderful than this!' On that the wolf said, 'There is something (more curious) and wonderful than this; that is, Allah's Apostle in those palm trees, inviting people to Allah (i.e. Islam).' "Unais bin 'Amr further said, "Then Ahban went to Allah's Apostle and informed him what happened and embraced Islam.)" palm trees or other trees and share the fruits with me."

[size=14pt]Quranic verses that says allah refused to perform miracles to the people.[/size]

“And they say, ‘We will not believe you until you break open for us from the ground a spring, or [until] you have a garden of date-palms  and grapes and make rivers gush forth within them in force [and abundance] or you make the heaven fall upon us in fragments as you have claimed or you bring God and the angels before [us] or you have a house of ornament [gold] or you ascend into the sky.  And [even then], we will not believe in your ascension until you bring down to us a book we may read.’  ‘Say, Exalted is my Lord!  Was I ever but a human messenger?’’’ (Quran 17:90-93)

The answer was:

“And nothing has prevented Us from sending [this message, like the earlier ones,] with miraculous signs [in its wake], save [Our knowledge] that the people of olden times [only too often] gave the lie to them: thus, We provided for [the tribe of] Thamud the she-camel as a visible sign, but they wronged her.  And never did We send those signs for any other purpose than to convey a warning.” (Quran 17:59)

When demanded ostensibly, God in His wisdom knew they would not believe, so He refused to show them miracles:

“Now they swear by God with their most solemn oaths that if a miracle were shown to them, they would indeed believe in this [divine writ].  Say: ‘Miracles are in the power of God alone.’  ‘And for all you know, even if one should be shown to them, they would not believe so long as We keep their hearts and their eyes turned [away from the truth], even as they did not believe in it in the first instance: and [so] We shall leave them in their overweening arrogance, blindly stumbling to and fro.’” (Quran 6:109-110)

All ur claims as the Catholic having all authourity to do this to do that etc etc.
Sure, It is easy to see that Catholics ve the authority in the wrong place.

The authority is not in the body, (church) but in the Head (Jesus)(Ephesians 1:22-23)22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.;

(Col. 1:18.18) And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

The authority is not the church, but in Christ (Matt. 28:1818 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

(1 Pet. 3:22) 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers [/b]in submission to him.

.
The church is not the Savior, but simply the body of the saved (Acts 2:47)47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

(Eph. 5:23) 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as [b]Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body
.

italo:
@Hutchie,

One after the other, where do you wanna start? What is your No 1 grouse with the Catholic Church?

@plappville,

I'm done with you. Talking to you is a waste of time. How can I be arguing with someone who thinks 'INIQUITY' is not 'SIN'? Your problem is not the Catholic Church or the Bible. Your problem is right inside your brain. It is blocked and seems incapable of understanding anything. Instead of wasting time reading when you can't understand, spend more time praying for your brain to be opened. As kelz said, enjoy!

In case you think I made a mistake, let me make myself clearer: THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CANNOT TEACH ERROR IN ANY ISSUE OF FAITH AND MORALS!!! It is Italo that said so.

A brilliant way to shy away, u are avoiding all questions i ve asked u. sure u know now the verses i posted contradicts ur doctrines, but uwont accept them. In other words, u ve refused the bible teaching and choose that of Man. Maybe other catholics can help out those question u ve abandon.

kelz88:
Don't know why I'm indulging you by going back and forth on this issue.

Seeing as you know it all you should be able to tell me why we no longer take slaves, kill infants and all that.

There's clearly no room in your heart for change, or bending of rules to serve a better purpose. At the end of the day the bible was written by man. I would be more understandable and read it the way you do if God sent it down from heaven.

I refuse to believe everything I read in the bible, or take everything literally. I refuse to believe God instructed the warriors in the OT to kill and take over land. I refuse to believe God asked Abraham to kill his only son. I refuse to believe God hates man-loving-men. This is not the God I serve. Asking me about right to change the rules is another thing cos n your eyes I am fr from being  a Christian cos I am nothing like you-or even the Catholics that believe the bible word for word, or the pope that ruled against contraception.

But beef with the Catholic church aside, don't you think the idea of priests marrying would disrupt their work in the church? Be honest.

My honesty is base on the scripture, : If the scripture had condemn it then, we will understand see wht the bible says on this particular issue. :

(1 Timothy4:1-3) 1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

Does this not direct to the prohibition of Bishops/priest from getting married?

Why because it is a Pope Gregory VII that initiated this practice. Not God. other verse to this:

(Galathians 1:But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

A verse that refares to Pope Gregory VII. Why not allow individual to decide to or not to marry.

italo
Posts: 450

Offline

Re: The Catholic Church And Its Claims As The Bible Author?
« #47 on: December 13, 2011, 04:07 PM »
@Rich4god,

Thanks, and God bless you too. I must say that I've seen some of your posts and they inspired and encouraged me too.

It was the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen that once said "The Catholic Faith is like a caged lion; you don't need to defend it; just open the cage".

To know that Jesus is the truth, he instituted the Church, he promised that the gates of hades will not come up against it, that he would be with it until the end of time, that he promised to send the Holy Spirit to teach the Church ALL things, that the Church - not the Bible - is pillar and foundation of truth (1Tim 3:15), that the Church wrote the new testament, compiled the Bible and gave it to the world. To know all these things should be a real confidence boost for any Catholic. The Church cannot teach error. And as long as you are saying something in-line with the teaching of the Church, you cannot be wrong. You might not know how to explain it, you might not have memorized the verses to support it, but you cannot be wrong. We all just have to know more by studying about our faith a little more each day.

God bless.

Did i hear u say the church "cannot"? and yet u stand contradict a bible verse that say, Whosoever is born of God "does not" commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Am sure u know the meaning of cannot. U gave your words, the church cannot teach error, God word pronounce we cannot sin, yet u doubted it. I wonder how u can claim this perfection of the church.

italo:
[b]It is you that said the Catholic Church is growing stronger everyday. I don't see where anyone else said that. [/b]As far as I know, the Church is dwindling in numbers in the Europe and North America but growing in Africa, Asia and is still very strong in Latin America. But is this the indication that we need to know that God is with it? No.

The Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded with Peter as its head and it continues to minister to the world with the teachings of the apostles in word and in tradition. These teachings have come down to us through an unbroken line of apostolic succession from the apostles to the early church fathers to the present day priests.

That is the indication we need. God's one true church, not a 'church' that was founded by a greedy pastor just to make money or an adulterous king just to satisfy his carnal desire.

"The gates of hades will not overcome it", Jesus said 2011yrs ago.

2011 years later, the gates of hades have not overcome it - and never will. That is the indication we need.

Or was Jesus talking about RCCG, or Deeper life, or Cele or any of the other 35000 protestant shops we have in the world today?

NO!

To the bold, the Catholics do claim rapid growth, and also claim the church is in the bible.
U personally ve said this times without numbers in previews post.
see a post of a Catholic claims that prove @free123 has not lied.

Oby1 (f)
Re: Why Infant Baptism Should Stop!
« #174 on: November 29, 2011, 03:02 PM »
My dear all I can say is that your argument is baseless. The Catholic church is well rooted, many of your kind has come and gone.  The wind has blown and is still blowing, but the church of God is still growing from strength to strength and why is it still standing because of God's word upon it, "The gate of hell shall not prevail over it" or can't you see it.  If the Church is not from God it would have collapsed long ago like others that have gone.

Please lets channel our strength on the mission God has sent us to do, Go and make disciples of all nation (the soul is more important.