₦airaland Forum

Adamgeneral12:
oga want know
I beg which one be your stand,was it hell or Paradise or if you just old and die that's all,no judgment, nothing just to decay

1. All unbelievers perish in the grave .I.e. cease to exist when they die. That is the judgement that God declared in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 19

2. For those of the Old Covenant Law, the promise is that those who die in their sins, perish in the grave .I.e. cease to exist when they die. But those of them who live righteous lives according to the Law, gain eternal life- Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20

3. For those of us in Jesus Christ, Death .I.e. perish in the grave or cease to exist, is not an option. jesus Christ took that option off the table when He declared that anyone who believes in Him will no longer perish but have eternal life- John 3 vs 16 - 21. Instead those in Jesus Christ who die as sinners are destined for Hell whereas those who live righteously, in obedience to Jesus Christ, are destined for Heaven - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46

Kobojunkie:
1. All unbelievers perish in the grave .I.e. cease to exist when they die. That is the judgement that God declared in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 19

2. For those of the Old Covenant Law, the promise is that those who die in their sins, perish in the grave .I.e. cease to exist when they die. But those of them who live righteous lives according to the Law, gain eternal life- Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20

3. For those of us in Jesus Christ, Death .I.e. perish in the grave or cease to exist, is not an option. jesus Christ took that option off the table when He declared that anyone who believes in Him will no longer perish but have eternal life- John 3 vs 16 - 21. Instead those in Jesus Christ who die as sinners are destined for Hell whereas those who live righteously, in obedience to Jesus Christ, are destined for Heaven - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46

Check out this post. https://www.nairaland.com/6711638/very-false-christian-belief

Hismasterpiece:
Check out this post. https://www.nairaland.com/6711638/very-false-christian-belief

When you start telling scripture what to say rather than accepting what is written as is , you stop following God and instead begin following your own doctrines and traditions.

Why hell? Why is hell so horrible?

The best answer I can think of is Isaiah 55:8-9.

God's thoughts are not our thoughts. God's ways are not our ways. As the heavens are higher than the earth so God's thoughts and ways are higher than ours.

Also, rather than dwell on the negative (i.e the existence of hell and the poor people suffering for all eternity there)..

I choose to dwell on the positive (i.e thanks to Jesus, I'll never know what it's like to spend even a second there and I have the means to prevent people from going there by sharing the gospel with them)

So, all in all, God is Good. Hallelujah!

Hismasterpiece:
Why hell? Why is hell so horrible?

The best answer I can think of is Isaiah 55:8-9.

God's thoughts are not our thoughts. God's ways are not our ways. As the heavens are higher than the earth so God's thoughts and ways are higher than ours.

Also, rather than dwell on the negative (i.e the existence of hell and the poor people suffering for all eternity there)..

I choose to dwell on the positive (i.e thanks to Jesus, I'll never know what it's like to spend even a second there and I have the means to prevent people from going there by sharing the gospel with them)

So, all in all, God is Good. Hallelujah!

This is God's thought:

And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart! Jeremiah 7:31

Inside God's heart there's nothing like burning people inside fire!

So learn how to interpret symbolic terms Jesus used in the Bible because he's the Wonderful Counselor whose teachings are full of idioms that you must learn before you can understand his message. Matthew 13:13

From Genesis to Malachi there was nowhere God said He will roast people alive inside fire, so if you're reading such a thing from Matthew to Revelations know that those are the idioms the Wonderful Counselor whose teachings you must learn before you can understand!

Hismasterpiece:
Q: Why would a loving God send people to hell?
A: Hell has nothing to do with love or hatred. Hell is about justice. People don't go to hell because God hates them, they go to hell because they deserve it. John 3:18.

Q: Why is hell forever?
A: Because God is just. If the righteous get eternal pleasure it is only just for the unrighteous to get eternal punishment.

Q: Who is to blame for hell?
A: Not God. You need to understand that hell is as a result of sin and God isn't the one who introduced sin into the world, Adam did. Romans 5:12. God warned Adam not to sin but the devil tempted Eve who gave Adam the fruit to eat. So you see that God is not the one that wants people to go to hell, the devil does!

Q: Did God create hell?
A: Yes, but not for man, but for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41. But when man sinned against God, He had to send him there also. Hell is basically a place for sinners.

Q: Does God want man to go to hell?
A: Absolutely not! 2 Peter 3:9. Which is exactly why He, in His Justice and Mercy and Grace and Love sent His Son Jesus to take our well-deserved punishment so we won't have to. John 3:16-21.

Q: Is hell a place of fire?
A: Sadly, yes. Matthew 3:10, 12. 25:41. Revelations 20:14. Etc.

Q: Will every body in hell be punished equally?
A: No. Just as everybody in Heaven won't be rewarded equally.

Q: Will moral people go to hell?
A: Yes. People don't go to heaven because of the food things they do, but only by trusting in the good thing Jesus did. Eph 2:8-9. John 3:16.

Q: Will there be Christians in hell?
A: Yes. Matthew 7:21.

Any other questions?

It is justice to kill your child because they stole a sweet? You must have a perverted sense of justice.

LordReed:
It is justice to kill your child because they stole a sweet? You must have a perverted sense of justice.

I'm waiting for misinformed Churchgoers to attend to this, because they'll all hide behind the JW to treat this with mild-temper and deep respect when they're ashamed to throw their usual insults!

MaxInDHouse:
This is God's thought:

And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart! Jeremiah 7:31

Inside God's heart there's nothing like burning people inside fire!

So learn how to interpret symbolic terms Jesus used in the Bible because he's the Wonderful Counselor whose teachings are full of idioms that you must learn before you can understand his message. Matthew 13:13

From Genesis to Malachi there was nowhere God said He will roast people alive inside fire, so if you're reading such a thing from Matthew to Revelations know that those are the idioms the Wonderful Counselor whose teachings you must learn before you can understand!

Yunno i really wish what you are saying was true but unfortunately it isn't.

LordReed:
It is justice to kill your child because they stole a sweet? You must have a perverted sense of justice.

what are you talking about?

Hismasterpiece:
Yunno i really wish what you are saying was true but unfortunately it isn't.

It's just funny that you often start what you can't finish!

Hismasterpiece:
It is like I said earlier.. I don't know much about the topic... I just gave the little I know...

MaxInDHouse:
It's just funny that you often start what you can't finish!

General Maximus

The guy that identifies with an organization (Jehovah's witness) rather than with a Savior (Christian)

Hismasterpiece:
General Maximus
The guy that identifies with an organization (Jehovah's witness) rather than with a Savior (Christian)

The saviour's words shows that many like you have been deceived {Matthew 24:11} the group name Christian has been defamed and the true God now call His own people by a new group name! Isaiah 65:15

So it's you who needs to think deeply about the slippery ground upon which you're walking! Psalms 73:18

Hismasterpiece:
what are you talking about?

Sending people to eternal torment is akin to killing a child because they stole a sweet. Justice would be to punish the child and try to teach them not to do it again. It would be a perversion of justice to kill the child. An eternal punishment for finite crime is similarly a perversion of justice.

LordReed:
Sending people to eternal torment is akin to killing a child because they stole a sweet. Justice would be to punish the child and try to teach them not to do it again. It would be a perversion of justice to kill the child. An eternal punishment for finite crime is similarly a perversion of justice.

To be honest i don't entirely like the doctrine of hell..

I honestly wish there wasn't any such place..

But looking at your comment all i can do is revert back what is written in Isaiah -

Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Isa 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

I don't disagree with your logic.. but neither do i disagree with God's even if i don't completely understand it.. i just remember this scripture and take it as my answer..

I don't entirely understand why hell is so scary... but the truth is i can't entirely understand... there are some things that God doesn't answer that i just have to trust Him on..

We can't completely figure out God all the time.. sometimes we just have to trust Him even when we don't understand..

I'm just grateful that thanks to Jesus i never will experience that scary place, but instead i will have the privilege of being ushered into the very presence of God when i leave this world.

And you can enjoy that privilege too if you put your faith in Jesus

MaxInDHouse:
The saviour's words shows that many like you have been deceived {Matthew 24:11} the group name Christian has been defamed and the true God now call His own people by a new group name! Isaiah 65:15

So it's you who needs to think deeply about the slippery ground upon which you're walking! Psalms 73:18

Lol... max max

@Hismasterpiece

If bad people are going to be in this Hellfire forever, didn't that contradict Jesus statement that eternal life is for people that exercise faith in him?

haddeylium:
@Hismasterpiece
If bad people are going to be in this Hellfire forever, didn't that contradict Jesus statement that eternal life is for people that exercise faith in him?

NO!
According to them, immortality is a gift for both the righteous and the unrighteous!

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
According to them, immortality is a gift for both the righteous and the unrighteous!

I don't want to believe that's true

haddeylium:
I don't want to believe that's true

Well Satan keeps assuring them that God lied about DEATH {Genesis 3:4-5} so they don't believe in the death of sinners! Genesis 2:17; 3:19

haddeylium:
@Hismasterpiece

If bad people are going to be in this Hellfire forever, didn't that contradict Jesus statement that eternal life is for people that exercise faith in him?

I don't understand your question. Please clarify

Hismasterpiece:
I don't understand your question. Please clarify

Good.

Jesus said the reward for people that exercise faith in him is 'Everlasting life'/Immortality.
But you writeup contradict his word by saying bad people too will have everlasting life

This is a one million dollars question none of them can answer because they're not adequately qualified to defend what they're teaching!

They only have ears but understanding is far away from them. How can someone correlate Jesus' statement @ John 3:16:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life!

If both the righteous and unrighteous will exist forever, then what sense is there in the above verse? Genesis 2:17

haddeylium:
Good.
Jesus said the reward for people that exercise faith in him is 'Everlasting life'/Immortality.
But you writeup contradict his word by saying bad people too will have everlasting life

haddeylium:
Good.

Jesus said the reward for people that exercise faith in him is 'Everlasting life'/Immortality.
But you writeup contradict his word by saying bad people too will have everlasting life

Everlasting life doesn't mean only believers will live forever because every body will live forever (spirits don't die) as we are all spirits.

Hismasterpiece:
To be honest i don't entirely like the doctrine of hell..

I honestly wish there wasn't any such place..

But looking at your comment all i can do is revert back what is written in Isaiah -

Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Isa 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

I don't disagree with your logic.. but neither do i disagree with God's even if i don't completely understand it.. i just remember this scripture and take it as my answer..

I don't entirely understand why hell is so scary... but the truth is i can't entirely understand... there are some things that God doesn't answer that i just have to trust Him on..

We can't completely figure out God all the time.. sometimes we just have to trust Him even when we don't understand..

I'm just grateful that thanks to Jesus i never will experience that scary place, but instead i will have the privilege of being ushered into the very presence of God when i leave this world.

And you can enjoy that privilege too if you put your faith in Jesus

Any person who realises the horror of the concept will detest it. Thankfully I lost fear of it long before I stopped believing entirely. Some atheists still have trauma from thinking about it.

haddeylium:
Good.

Jesus said the reward for people that exercise faith in him is 'Everlasting life'/Immortality.
But you writeup contradict his word by saying bad people too will have everlasting life

Good observation.

Hismasterpiece:
Everlasting life doesn't mean only believers will live forever because every body will live forever (spirits don't die) as we are all spirits.

You still didn't answer the question.

So, Exercising faith in Jesus is not necessary since everyone will have this everlasting life that Jesus promised some set only?
Either one of these is true

LordReed:
Any person who realises the horror of the concept will detest it. Thankfully I lost fear of it long before I stopped believing entirely. Some atheists still have trauma from thinking about it.

No way do CRUELTY endear people to God; it repels them.

Hismasterpiece:
Everlasting life doesn't mean only believers will live forever because every body will live forever (spirits don't die) as we are all spirits.

So what is the essence of Jesus' statement since everyone will have everlasting life?

haddeylium:
You still didn't answer the question.

So, Exercising faith in Jesus is not necessary since everyone will have this everlasting life that Jesus promised some set only?
Either one of these is true

MaxInDHouse:
So what is the essence of Jesus' statement since everyone will have everlasting life?

You don't understand. Everlasting life doesn't mean you'll live forever. Everybody will live forever. We are spirits and spirits don't die. As long as we are in our bodies we remain in this world, but when we leave our bodies we go to our eternal homes (heaven or hell). See Luke 16:19-31, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8. The rich man and lazarus both lived forever but in different places. And the apostle Paul talked about leaving his earthly home (physical body) and going to his heavenly home.

Jesus saying those who believe in Him will have everlasting life simply means that they will enter into fellowship with God and know God forever unlike those who don't believe in Him who will forever be out of fellowship with God.

Jesus said eternal life is to know God (see John 17:3).

Going by your logic one might think that the opposite of eternal life is eternal death (ceasing to exist) but that's not according to scripture. According to scripture, the opposite of eternal life is condemnation, which is the default state of all unbelievers. And condemnation doesn't mean you cease to exist when you die, but rather you still exist but in a state in which you're out of fellowship with God.

When a person dies their spirits leave their bodies (see James 2:26, Ecclesiastes 12:7) and go to their eternal homes (see Luke 16:19-31).

LordReed:
Any person who realises the horror of the concept will detest it. Thankfully I lost fear of it long before I stopped believing entirely. Some atheists still have trauma from thinking about it.

It is a bitter pill to swallow... but one must swallow it nonetheless.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

You statement above has me thinking that you believe God isn't Good for creating such a place.

Am i right to think so? Or am i wrong?