LordReed:


Yes it is on par with ritualistic killing even the Bible declares as much, it calls him the lamb. Lambs were slaughtered and burnt as sacrifice, the imagery is supposed to remind you of the gruesome way he died.

It doesn’t matter why he was sacrificed, it is still a human being sacrificed. Do you recall the story of the king of Jericho who sacrificed his 2 sons to achieve victory, there is no difference between what he did and what you say your god did. They both sacrificed their sons to a god for favorable outcome aka human sacrifice.

In your example I would consider such a man as crazy not good. What loving father would do such a thing to his child?

It does matter why Jesus was sacrificed. And yes there is a difference between what the king did and what God did. The king's sons were sacrificed against their will and the motive behind their sacrifice, according to scripture was selfish. The king sacrificed his sons for his own personal interest but that is exactly contrary to the sacrifice of Jesus.

According to scripture Jesus gave His Life freely, He wasn't forced to do it. He never fought back, He never resisted, even on the cross He prayed for His murderers. Show me one person who was the subject of a ritual sacrifice that was consenting to their death. The motive behind Jesus' sacrifice wasn't God's own personal interest or in God's favor, but that of mankind in general.

Also, you can't actually compare the sacrifice of Jesus to ritual sacrifices. Do you know why? There has never been any record of a victim of ritual sacrifice being raised from the dead by the god he was sacrificed to after three days. But Jesus was raised from the dead, and today He reigns as Lord over all creation. Hallelujah!!

P.S My example wasn't supposed to be taken literally i was just trying to illustrate the sacrifice of Jesus. It is literally impossible for something like that to happen in real life. But just out of curiosity i would like to know... if you were the criminal in the example, would you let the man's son die for you? Just asking...

LordReed:
Are you forgetting John 3:16?

John 3 vs 16 says God gave Jesus Christ, His New Covenant Law , to the world. What has that verse got to do with this?

Kobojunkie:
John 3 vs 16 says God gave Jesus Christ, His New Covenant Law , to the world. What has that verse got to do with this?

So when you give something up it is not a sacrifice? Or what is your definition of sacrifice? Secondly it was the god that decided on the course not simply Jesus making a choice according to the tale.

LordReed:
So when you give something up it is not a sacrifice? Or what is your definition of sacrifice? Secondly it was the god that decided on the course not simply Jesus making a choice according to the tale.

It says He gave, not gave up.

So, they were both in on it, why blame God for anything then. By the way, Jesus Christ gained tons of glory from this...so why pretend Him a victim of some sort.

Hismasterpiece:


God is Good. In His Goodness He offers eternal life to all.

In His Goodness He has revealed Himself to all so no one can say they never knew that He existed.

You have to understand that hell was never in God's original plan.

His original plan was to have all His creations in paradise for all eternity.

But His creations rebelled against Him, and in His Judgement He condemned the sinners.

God is Holy and Good.

Bros, you can't sustain this argument with your point of "His Original plans was to have all His creation in paradise for eternity". This is because, He knows the very End from the beginning. So, if I know the end from the Beginning, then the argument of " Original or contingency plans" doesn't come in. Only man do have plan A, Plan B and even Plan C; Not God Almighty bro.

Cabble4:

Bros, you can't sustain this argument with your point of "His Original plans was to have all His creation in paradise for eternity". This is because, He knows the very End from the beginning. So, if I know the end from the Beginning, then the argument of " Original or contingency plans" doesn't come in. Only man do have plan A, Plan B and even Plan C; Not God Almighty bro.

I don't understand your point. Clarify please.

Hismasterpiece:


It does matter why Jesus was sacrificed. And yes there is a difference between what the king did and what God did. The king's sons were sacrificed against their will and the motive behind their sacrifice, according to scripture was selfish. The king sacrificed his sons for his own personal interest but that is exactly contrary to the sacrifice of Jesus.

According to scripture Jesus gave His Life freely, He wasn't forced to do it. He never fought back, He never resisted, even on the cross He prayed for His murderers. Show me one person who was the subject of a ritual sacrifice that was consenting to their death. The motive behind Jesus' sacrifice wasn't God's own personal interest or in God's favor, but that of mankind in general.

Also, you can't actually compare the sacrifice of Jesus to ritual sacrifices. Do you know why? There has never been any record of a victim of ritual sacrifice being raised from the dead by the god he was sacrificed to after three days. But Jesus was raised from the dead, and today He reigns as Lord over all creation. Hallelujah!!

P.S My example wasn't supposed to be taken literally i was just trying to illustrate the sacrifice of Jesus. It is literally impossible for something like that to happen in real life. But just out of curiosity i would like to know... if you were the criminal in the example, would you let the man's son die for you? Just asking...

How do you know they were sacrificed against their will?

The god's interest was served by sacrificing Jesus just like the king's was. Also Jericho was saved to I guess the people of Jericho in that tale should have been happy that their king sacrificed his sons to save them.

The Aztecs used to sacrifice people too and by all accounts the people went willingly to their deaths so that makes it okay?

A sacrifice is not something you expect to receive back so basically your god did ojoro and got his own sacrifice back while others have to be content with knowing what they lost.

I can't really say since I would not rape and murder but in a situation where in other to save me some other person would have to loose their life my first instinct will be to reject such a solution. In fact I would not consciously accept such a solution unless I was not in a position to affect the decision but if it was a matter of choice I would reject it.

Kobojunkie:
It says He gave, not gave up.

So, they were both in on it, why blame God for anything then. By the way, Jesus Christ gained tons of glory from this...so why pretend Him a victim of some sort.

If you give a gift do expect to get it back?

Not blaming the god but realising that the god is not exactly a good concept, a god that requires human sacrifice is not a good god. Also the story as told means the god cheated by having his gift return to him. You can't eat your cake and have it as they say but not for the god apparently.

Hismasterpiece:


I don't understand your point. Clarify please.

What's there to clarify? It's common English. Or are you trying to sweep off carpet the question?
*Let Me rephrase, in your assertion, you claimed that creation of hell wasn't included in God's original Plan and that it was because man rebelled that He then changed His MIND and created hell. To you, Hell is like Plan B because something went wrong unexpectedly and the Plan A(Original Plan) is Paradise.
I objected by saying, you cannot sustained your point of hell fire with the above argument because, God can and will never be taken unaware because He knows the very end from the beginning. And anyone who knows the end from the beginning cannot be FORCED TO MAKE A PLAN B, because something went wrong unexpectedly.
*So, if you want to sustain your point of hell, look for another thing and don't surreptitiously tell people that, God never knew what He was doing before getting on with it and only noticed it when man rebelled and then created a hell fire which was not His original plan.
*For God sake!!! Where in the bible did you see "hell is God's second plan after He discovered that man rebelled?"

LordReed:

If you give a gift do expect to get it back?

Not blaming the god but realising that the god is not exactly a good concept, a god that requires human sacrifice is not a good god. Also the story as told means the god cheated by having his gift return to him. You can't eat your cake and have it as they say but not for the god apparently.

You are still hammering on the wrong thing.

God gave man His Law, Jesus Christ - that is simply what happened.

Jesus Christ was not a gift but a promised Law/contract, and agreement that God promised He would make with the world.

Kobojunkie:
You are still hammering on the wrong thing.

God gave man His Law, Jesus Christ - that is simply what happened.

Jesus Christ was not a gift but a promised Law/contract, and agreement that God promised He would make with the world.

He was a sacrifice that was human, a human sacrifice. He is symbolised by a lamb and you know what they did with lambs in the OT.

LordReed:
He was a sacrifice that was human, a human sacrifice. He is symbolised by a lamb and you know what they did with lambs in the OT.

Again, Jesus Christ was no human sacrifice to God.

He was led like a lamb to His death at the cross - He didn't resist- was He not? Hence, the lamb reference was apt, and had little or nothing to do with Old testament refence to sacrifice of lambs , not even that described in Exodus 12.

Jesus Christ instead gave up His life so that His mission on earth, to His friends, would be fulfilled.

Kobojunkie:
Again, Jesus Christ was no human sacrifice to God.

He was led like a lamb to His death at the cross - He didn't resist- was He not? Hence, the lamb reference was apt, and had little or nothing to do with Old testament refence to sacrifice of lambs , not even that described in Exodus 12.

Jesus Christ instead gave up His life so that His mission on earth, to His friends, would be fulfilled.

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

LordReed:
Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

You know better than to quote that at me.

Read the Gospels to understand why.... Jesus Christ Himself said that He gave Himself up on behalf of His friends. Should we not take Him at His Word, believe instead that which was supposedly written in a letter to an audience of Ephesians?

Quick fire question.

Assuming Kobojunkie at the end of your life finds yourself in heaven, while your lovely mother who you love ends up in hell. Are you going to be happy in heaven with the knowledge that your mother is being tortured day and night?

The day we realise that we are all God's breath dwelling within a physical body made of dust that day we will truly be free. We are different versions of the single spirit. When we experience death. Our spirit becomes one with God. Ecclesiastes 12:7

22jumpstreet:
Quick fire question.

Assuming Kobojunkie at the end of your life finds yourself in heaven, while your lovely mother who you love ends up in hell. Are you going to be happy in heaven with the knowledge that your mother is being tortured day and night?

I don't know.

Kobojunkie:
I don't know.

You did not really think that through...did you?

So you see, the idea is so evil, the romans who created it in their fictional tales of Jesus where so wicked...

22jumpstreet:
You did not really think that through...did you?

So you see, the idea is so evil, the romans who created it in their fictional tales of Jesus where so wicked...

The way you process information makes me wonder about the state of your brain engine...

So because I don't know what I would do if what you stated were to happen in some far off distant future means it is all evil and hence fiction? Come on!

Kobojunkie:
The way you process information makes me wonder about the state of your brain engine...

So because I don't know what I would do if what you stated were to happen in some far off distant future means it is all evil and hence fiction? Come on!

What's the logical explanation?

The so called new testament is fiction. It has got nothing to do with God. It is about inanna and her beloved dimuzi...

22jumpstreet:

What's the logical explanation?

The so called new testament is fiction. It has got nothing to do with God. It is about inanna and her beloved dimuzi...

Logical explanation?

LordReed:


If you give a gift do expect to get it back?

Not blaming the god but realising that the god is not exactly a good concept, a god that requires human sacrifice is not a good god. Also the story as told means the god cheated by having his gift return to him. You can't eat your cake and have it as they say but not for the god apparently.

Ingrate, who made the rule of not having your cake?

LordReed:


How do you know they were sacrificed against their will?

The god's interest was served by sacrificing Jesus just like the king's was. Also Jericho was saved to I guess the people of Jericho in that tale should have been happy that their king sacrificed his sons to save them.

The Aztecs used to sacrifice people too and by all accounts the people went willingly to their deaths so that makes it okay?

A sacrifice is not something you expect to receive back so basically your god did ojoro and got his own sacrifice back while others have to be content with knowing what they lost.

I can't really say since I would not rape and murder but in a situation where in other to save me some other person would have to loose their life my first instinct will be to reject such a solution. In fact I would not consciously accept such a solution unless I was not in a position to affect the decision but if it was a matter of choice I would reject it.

Duh, so the owner and giver of life is doing ojoro by giving life. Where do you get these silly and childish laws that you make up?

LordReed:


So a human sacrifice is how we can know your god is good?

That He lets you breathe, eat jollof, see and type nko? Ingrate, common.

There is no hell anywhere...God created everything in twos....heaven and earth.. it's called the principle of duality..

Kobojunkie:
You know better than to quote that at me.

Read the Gospels to understand why.... Jesus Christ Himself said that He gave Himself up on behalf of His friends. Should we not take Him at His Word, believe instead that which was supposedly written in a letter to an audience of Ephesians?

Once again we get to this your weird selectiveness. All the books of the gospels were written by anonymous people who we have no way of known if they accurately recorded what was said and how could they since they were recording oral retellings? You can’t tell me you know for sure that is exactly what Jesus said in the gospels so this you selective choosing is very hilarious. Besides you have exactly 1 reference to tongues in the gospels and that from a verse that was thought have been a later addition so how exactly do you know about how it’s supposed to work if not from other books of the Bible?

LordReed:

Once again we get to this your weird selectiveness. All the books of the gospels were written by anonymous people who we have no way of known if they accurately recorded what was said and how could they since they were recording oral retellings? You can’t tell me you know for sure that is exactly what Jesus said in the gospels so this you selective choosing is very hilarious. Besides you have exactly 1 reference to tongues in the gospels and that from a verse that was thought have been a later addition so how exactly do you know about how it’s supposed to work if not from other books of the Bible?

But the Gospels are the only portions that supposedly quote Jesus Christ Himself. So, if according to Jesus Christ, He gave up His life for the sake of His friends and He did so willingly. Do we ignore that because we want to instead cling to a claim made by another anonymous writer who does not pretend to quote Him at all?

Cabble4:

What's there to clarify? It's common English. Or are you trying to sweep off carpet the question?
*Let Me rephrase, in your assertion, you claimed that creation of hell wasn't included in God's original Plan and that it was because man rebelled that He then changed His MIND and created hell. To you, Hell is like Plan B because something went wrong unexpectedly and the Plan A(Original Plan) is Paradise.
I objected by saying, you cannot sustained your point of hell fire with the above argument because, God can and will never be taken unaware because He knows the very end from the beginning. And anyone who knows the end from the beginning cannot be FORCED TO MAKE A PLAN B, because something went wrong unexpectedly.
*So, if you want to sustain your point of hell, look for another thing and don't surreptitiously tell people that, God never knew what He was doing before getting on with it and only noticed it when man rebelled and then created a hell fire which was not His original plan.
*For God sake!!! Where in the bible did you see "hell is God's second plan after He discovered that man rebelled?"

First of all, i never said God created hell after man rebelled. According to what the scriptures teach, God created hell for the devil and his angels.

Secondly, what you understood by what i posted wasn't the aim of my post. Are you saying that God created Heaven and created hell on standby in anticipation of satan's and adam's rebellion? I don't think that accords with scripture.

LordReed:


How do you know they were sacrificed against their will?

The god's interest was served by sacrificing Jesus just like the king's was. Also Jericho was saved to I guess the people of Jericho in that tale should have been happy that their king sacrificed his sons to save them.

The Aztecs used to sacrifice people too and by all accounts the people went willingly to their deaths so that makes it okay?

A sacrifice is not something you expect to receive back so basically your god did ojoro and got his own sacrifice back while others have to be content with knowing what they lost.

I can't really say since I would not rape and murder but in a situation where in other to save me some other person would have to loose their life my first instinct will be to reject such a solution. In fact I would not consciously accept such a solution unless I was not in a position to affect the decision but if it was a matter of choice I would reject it.

Even if other sacrifices had willing victims, there still is no record of a god raising someone sacrificed to him from the dead three days after they were sacrificed.

From what i understand from your post, it seems that you are trying to say that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross shows that God is evil and not good?

Hismasterpiece:


Even if other sacrifices had willing victims, there still is no record of a god raising someone sacrificed to him from the dead three days after they were sacrificed.

From what i understand from your post, it seems that you are trying to say that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross shows that God is evil and not good?

I already said that the god if he exists is an amoral being.

Cabble4:

Bros, you can't sustain this argument with your point of "His Original plans was to have all His creation in paradise for eternity". This is because, He knows the very End from the beginning. So, if I know the end from the Beginning, then the argument of " Original or contingency plans" doesn't come in. Only man do have plan A, Plan B and even Plan C; Not God Almighty bro.

I believe that God knows the end from the beginning, but i also believe that God can choose not to know something. I'll give you three examples from scripture.

1. Heb 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." . But you say God knows all things, but this scripture makes it clear that though he knows all things, He still has the ability to keep things out of His knowledge.

2. The story of when God tested Abraham. He told him to offer his son Isaac as a burnt offering to Him. I believe God chose not to know what choice Abraham would make. Because if God already knew, then why would he ask Abraham to sacrifice his son? Gen 22:1-18.

3. The return of Jesus. Jesus said that no one knows when He will return, except the father. Jesus is God and knows all things so what other explanation is there except the fact that even though God knows the end from the beginning, He can choose not to. Mat 24:36

Kobojunkie:
But the Gospels are the only portions that supposedly quote Jesus Christ Himself. So, if according to Jesus Christ, He gave up His life for the sake of His friends and He did so willingly. Do we ignore that because we want to instead cling to a claim made by another anonymous writer who does not pretend to quote Him at all?

Only 1 reference to tongues was attributed to Jesus so how do you know exactly how it works if not from other books?