jamesid29:

I'm guessing your point is, an all good God is incompatible with the evil we see in this world.

If I may ask? How would you deal with the problem of evil if you were God?

Hismasterpiece:


The people who will suffer for eternity are those who justly deserve it. God is Just, you see.

LordReed:


Yes an all good god is incompatible with the world as it is.

If I was the god evil won't exist period.

LordReed:


According to you if you told one lie you would be counted as though you committed murder therefore you deserve to suffer forever, for 1 lie. How in any good sense is that just? How is it justice to suffer infinitely for finite crimes? There is no Jurisdiction on earth where all crimes are punished the same way but this your god can't even be better than human beings. Besides this is about suffering what does the god gain from people suffering for eternity?

Hismasterpiece:


The problem is you are trying to figure out God from a human standpoint and that's wrong.

There's nothing that we know about God that He did not reveal to us.

How is it justice to suffer infinitely for finite crimes? Well my answer to that lies in Isaiah 55. God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not like ours.

It may not make sense to you why people should suffer infinitely for finite crimes, but God is far wiser than you and is also Just, so I believe He knows what He's doing.

Hismasterpiece:


The problem is you are trying to figure out God from a human standpoint and that's wrong.

There's nothing that we know about God that He did not reveal to us.

How is it justice to suffer infinitely for finite crimes? Well my answer to that lies in Isaiah 55. God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not like ours.

It may not make sense to you why people should suffer infinitely for finite crimes, but God is far wiser than you and is also Just, so I believe He knows what He's doing.

HellVictorinho:



How did you know God is wiser?

LordReed:


There's no other standpoint I have to figure out anything. Basically you are admitting that this god concept doesn't make sense to a non believer which is exactly my position.

Hismasterpiece:


Cuz He is God?

Hismasterpiece:


No i didn't say the God concept doesnt make sense to a non believer.

I said that His Ways.... His methods don't make sense to humans in general, whether believer or non believers.

The natural mind can't fully grasp God

LordReed:


I didn't say you said so I said you are tacitly admitting it and you are again repeating it so I don't know why you denied it in the first place. The god concept doesn't make sense but it must make some kind of sense to you because you always have an excuse for the god that you won't apply to anyone else.

Crystyano:



What is God?

Hismasterpiece:


God is not a 'what' God is a 'Who'

Hismasterpiece:


Again, i did not mean to say or imply that the concept of God makes no sense to a non-believer. I said His actions are sometimes misunderstood by them and also by believers as well. And that is understandable, because a being like God obviously is on a higher intellectual plane than we are, and we naturally would have a hard time making sense of His doings.

Also, you atheists (which is what you claim to be, and i don't believe there is any true atheist) already have a bias against God. You already dislike God because you don't understand why He does what He does, so you view God through the lens of that bias and are not willing to accept the truth about Him.

Also, when you say i always have an excuse for God, you make it seem as if your interpretation of God's actions is right but those of believers are just mere excuses in order to paint God in a bad light and that's not true. Again, because of you bias against God, you have chosen not to be open-minded concerning Him and therefore reject any truth concerning Him.

LordReed:


The god concept doesn’t make sense, you just believe even if you have to twist what is plainly written to make it fit reality. I don't have to paint your god concept in a bad light you guys do it well enough.

Hismasterpiece:


How do we paint it in a bad light?

Hismasterpiece:

How do we paint it in a bad light?

LordReed:


Telling me your god will torture people forever for finite crimes and singular offences already tells me the god concept is rotten.

Hismasterpiece:


Is that all i told you? What about the part where i said He is willing to forgive the repentant and accept them into His kingdom?

LordReed:


That Hitler loved his wife doesn't make him any less the monster he was. If your god concept includes eternal torture then it is a nasty concept despite what you think of as redemption.

Hismasterpiece:


God doesn't want anybody to go there... besides the place wasn't even created for humans, but humans by their rebellion forced God to start sending humans there.

You make it seem as if God is unjustly tormenting people in hell, but that isn't how the Bible teaches it. Everyone in hell deserves to be there. God is Holy, and being as Holy as He is, it only makes sense that He has the attitude towards sin that He does.

And don't forget the type of people that God sends there. Evil people by His standards are the ones He sends there.

LordReed:


If you steal because you and your family are starving you ...

LordReed:


If you steal because you and your family are starving you end up in hell, eternal torment for your helplessness. What a puerile concept. There is no way to white wash it, anytime you mention hell you are showing just how demented the god concept is.

Hismasterpiece:


[b]The will of God and character of God has been clear from the very beginning. [/b]He is the one that warned Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit. Satan is the one that told them to eat the fruit.

So you see who the god guy is and who the bad guy is.

You keep trying to bring God down to your level and interpret His actions with human reasoning and that is wrong.
God operates on a higher plane than humans intellectually. His judgements are unsearchable and His ways past finding out.

Hismasterpiece:

God doesn't want anybody to go there... besides the place wasn't even created for humans, but humans by their rebellion forced God to start sending humans there.

Hismasterpiece:


Stealing because your family is starving is still stealing nonetheless. If you had only 1 million naira in your account of which you were planning to use 950,000 to treat your sic child and somebody defrauded you of 900,000 in order to buy medicine for his sick mother would you pity him for doing such? Are his needs more important than yours?

Evil is evil regardless of the motive behind it.

Are saying evil should go unpunished? If God didn't hold people like Hitler, Osama, Abacha, accountable for their evil deeds would that be fair? What of all their victims? Who would plead their case?

You choose to focus on one aspect of God and ignore the others. What about Heaven? Isn't it the same Person that created it?

Hell would be a wicked concept if God actually intended for people to go there but He doesn't. And He paid the ultimate price to ensure that people don't go there.

The only thing that takes people there is sin. Who tempts people to sin? satan Who repeatedly gives people warnings not to sin? God.

The will of God and character of God has been clear from the very beginning. He is the one that warned Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit. Satan is the one that told them to eat the fruit.

So you see who the god guy is and who the bad guy is.

You keep trying to bring God down to your level and interpret His actions with human reasoning and that is wrong.

God operates on a higher plane than humans intellectually. His judgements are unsearchable and His ways past finding out.

LordReed:


There are many more aspects of your god concept that are just as terrible even though the hell portion seems to be rather egregious.

Anytime the god concept is challenged you believers find a way of elevating the concept to places where you think proper inquiry cannot reach yet you present it as if you understand it completely, that is a contradiction. Either we can understand this concept and we can make inquiries or we can't understand it and can't make inquiry, it can't be both at the same time.

BTW there is no way to whitewash the hell concept. Your god concept is supposedly in charge, he didn't passively standby while the hell formed itself according to the concept, he created all things including hell and all the conditions necessary to go there. You cannot now attempt a white wash, it doesn't fly.

MaxInDHouse:


"Hell" means "Grave" while "Lake of fire" means "Permanent death"
God didn't create any place like these two it only symbolises conditions.
The first condition Death is inactivity for certain period until God intervened and restore those in that condition back to life! Job 14:13-15
The second condition Lake of fire is permanent death as God has forgotten those in this condition because there was nothing worthwhile to write home about them hence they are missing in God's memory. Revelations 20:15 compare to Malachi 3:16

After the event that occurred in the garden of Eden the three rebels (Satan, Adam and Eve) were casted into the lake of fire (permanent death) but Adam's descendants who became innocent victims of sin and death {Romans 3:23; 5:12} will be remembered only if they did what beffits God's memory book. Because God doesn't keep account of evil so when anyone dies he has fully paid for his sins {Romans 6:7} because that's the highest punishment for sin! Romans 6:23
Then the sinners personality will be reviewed:
Was he virtuous? Genesis 4:10
Does he have a conscience? Luke 23:39-43
If he is virtuous God will count him worthy of a resurrection among the righteous and if his conscience still works despite being carried away by life's anxieties God will count him worthy of a resurrection among the unrighteous! Act 24:15
But all those who chose to render their own conscience dead will go straightforward into permanent death (Lake of fire)

These symbolic terms Jesus used to explain the difference in death conditions they are not real places. Jesus spoke in PARABLES {Matthew 13:13-15} as foretold before his birth {Isaiah 6:10} and Daniel foretold that (only) the righteous ones will understand! Daniel 12:10

That is why you people are puzzled because you all know how virtuous Jehovah's Witnesses are in the society and how unfaithful most of your pastors and church members have proved to be over the years yet we have a totally different meaning to what is written in God's word.
Ask yourselves who supposed to hold strongly his faith, is it those who believes that God will torment them forever if they don't or those who doesn't believe in torment after death?
Well ironically it's JWs who don't believe in torments after death that are known globally to be steadfast in their faith!
So it's obvious that you people are only been deceived and scared of the fallacies the church fathers used to instill fear in you, you never really understood what God's word is saying.
You people are mere faithless cowards! Revelations 21:8

Hismasterpiece:


God doesn't want anybody to go there... besides the place wasn't even created for humans, but humans by their rebellion forced God to start sending humans there.

You make it seem as if God is unjustly tormenting people in hell, but that isn't how the Bible teaches it. Everyone in hell deserves to be there. God is Holy, and being as Holy as He is, it only makes sense that He has the attitude towards sin that He does.

And don't forget the type of people that God sends there. Evil people by His standards are the ones He sends there.

Hismasterpiece:


Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

What about this scripture above sounds like symbols to you? It clearly states that those who worship the beast shall be tormented with fire and brimstone and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever. Are you going to tell me that the words 'torment' and 'smoke' are symbols too?

Rev 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

The lake of fire is an actual place where people, fallen angels and demons will be tormented forever and ever. The Scriptures couldn't be any more clearer.

Hismasterpiece:


God is not a 'what' God is a 'Who'

budaatum:


God is a "what" too. God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent as well as having an eternal and necessary existence, are all "whats" and not "whos", though they don't teach it in Sunday school.