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Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by SIRTee15: 4:19am On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21: This is Sophia of jesus Mishnah Eugnostos the blessed
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Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 4:31am On Feb 10 |
[quote author=Expanse2020 post=128376610][/quote] It is easy to catch a liar! What is the smell of honey? Islam and Lies! |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by SIRTee15: 4:32am On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21: And where is your evidence for this. That historians reject Didache as a reliable source. U just making bogus claim that cannot be backed by any scholarly or expert evidence. These are extant from works of scholars on the book. If U cannot produced evidence then I suggest U desist from making unsound and unproven arguments here. U already made such careless utterances in the fetal position debate and U are repeating it here again. Anyway I already gave u other sources of books confirming Jesus called father. U are simply desperately hiding behind a finger. 1 Like
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Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 4:44am On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21: You said many things that were not true according to Islam. You said that Allah is a boundless spirit! This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam. You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne? Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal? 1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit? If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity! 2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne? 3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an? Then Allah is describable 4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape? Then he cannot be boundless! 5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal? 6. Can Allah enter into his creation? Again: I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out 1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit? 2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah? 3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself? Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these 1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!? 2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah? We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit! You said: Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam? Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed! Thank you! |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 4:51am On Feb 10 |
NairaLTQ: Manipulating my statement? Very much like you. Show me Allah is a boundless spirit in my submission You asking other questions is your trade mark? Show your proof then place your questions to justify not the other way round. When you don't understand something come out straight to ask and don't hide in the dark with questions. Nobody sees you or is interested in groping in the dark with you. |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by SIRTee15: 5:06am On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21: Another bogus claim that U can't produce any evidence for. Show me an evidence where Jesus was called isho in Palestinian Aramaic or ISA in Arabic. U have none, nothing. Jesus name in Aramaic spoken in judea region mean 'Yahweh saves' and that's translates to Yeshua/ Yeoshua in hebrew. That's the only name that match that definition. Isho is the syriac-peshitta aramaic derivation of the name. Jesus never spoke that dialect. Jesus is called Yeshu in the Talmud- a shortened derivative of the name Yeshua. There's no where he was ever called Isa, the Arab Christians called him Yasu. I won't waste my time with arguing the origin of Jesus with u. Nobody ever said he was called Jesus Christ. 1 Like
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Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 5:10am On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21: Is this from you or not honesttalk21: Meaning : Allah is a Spirit Allah is Boundless as a spirit. Here below is an extract of one of your Fatwa to answer if Allah is a spirit "The spirit or soul is not one of the attributes of Allaah, rather it is one of the things that have been created by Allaah. It is mentioned in conjunction with Allaah in some texts by way of honouring, for Allaah is its Creator and Sovereign, He takes it (in death) whenever He wills and He sends it whenever He wills." https://islamqa.info/en/answers/50774/he-is-debating-with-a-christian-and-is-asking-does-god-have-a-spirit I have never read from any of your scholars that Allah is a spirit : thus, you are the only one who can give me your alternate sources that Allah is a spirit. Do you care about the Truth? So, will you now respond to my questions? When you ask questions, you will become free! 1 Like |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 5:19am On Feb 10 |
Again honesttalk21: You said many things that were not true according to Islam. You said that Allah is a boundless spirit! This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam. You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne? Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal? 1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit? If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity! 2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne? 3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an? Then Allah is describable 4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape? Then he cannot be boundless! 5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal? 6. Can Allah enter into his creation? Again: I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out 1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit? 2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah? 3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself? Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these 1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!? 2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah? We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit! Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam? Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed! Thank you! |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by SIRTee15: 5:25am On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21: Even scholars have researched ISA and that have no idea where Muhammed fabricate it from. I keep saying it, Koran can not survive historical scrutiny. It will fall yakata for ground.
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Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 9:53am On Feb 10 |
NairaLTQ: You see yourself. Fatwa by who? Not me but still The spirit or soul is not one of the attributes of Allaah, rather it is one of the things that have been created by Allaah.[/color][/b] It is mentioned in conjunction with Allaah in some texts by way of honouring, for Allaah is its Creator and Sovereign, He takes it (in death) whenever He wills and He sends it whenever He wills. THE SPIRIT OR SOUL IS NOT ONE OF THE ATTRRIBUTES OF ALLAH IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED BY ALLAH |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 10:00am On Feb 10 |
NairaLTQ: A clear similitude of twisting of tongues. As you are wont to do you didn't quote in full. Allah is not confined to a material or physical body as humans, but is a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension Boundless means what? Surpasses human comprehension means what? The spirit you know is bound within your definitions and exaggeration but there is non of these in which you can limit Allah. All other spirits are limited by Allah or aren't they? |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 1:02pm On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21:I asked you questions, and you demanded for evidence : therefore, I gave you a fatwa otherwise, please give me answers to my questions. You note that : 1. If the Spirit is NOT an attribute of Allah but a creation, do you now agree that "Allah could not have been a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension." ? 2. If the Spirit is created by Allah, do you concur that such can not be called "spirit of Allah" for the spirit come from within Allah? 3. Is the spirit a living thing or non living thing? 1 Like |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 1:11pm On Feb 10 |
honesttalk21:But you just admitted that the Spirit was created by Allah! Did Allah create himself? Is it untrue that according to your prophet that Allah is on his throne above the seven heavens? Sunan Ibn Majah 4331 Mu’adh bin Jabal said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: ‘Paradise has one hundred grades, each of which is as big as the distance between heaven and earth. The highest of them is Firdaws and the best of them is Firdaws. The Throne is above Firdaws and from it spring forth the rivers of Paradise. If you ask of Allah, ask Him for Firdaws.’” How can Allah be boundless when he is ABOVE the heavens? |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 10:17pm On Feb 10 |
NairaLTQ: This is the show I ask of. Does this equate asking for evidence? Show or discuss your claim. Keep your following questions until after this is done. Despite Allah being described as existing above the heavens, this elevated position does not confine Allah's boundless nature. Allah being above the heavens, refers to a position that surpasses all material and earthly constraints. This placement is not meant to indicate confinement but serves to emphasize Allah's separation from earthly matters and his elevated status. |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 5:21am On Feb 11 |
honesttalk21:I have ALREADY discussed my claims with you sir 1. Islamic scholars insist that Allah is NOT a Spirit and that the spirit is created by Allah. I gave you a Fatwa as an example. Even you have agreed with their submissions about Allah. Is Allah created!? You answer is NO! But is the Spirit created!? YES! The implication is that Allah CANNOT be described as a SPIRIT. Secondly, if Allah is NOT a spirit, he cannot be a boundless spirit. 2. Is it untrue that Mohammed described the seven heavens as physically above the earth with the subsequent one higher that the previous heaven and that Allah is ABOVE the highest heavens on his throne. Is it untrue that Mohammed promised that you Muslims will see Allah at about the day of resurrection? These two show that Allah is NOT boundless. Allah is finite, that is why he is above the heavens And can be seen by Muslims |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 5:43am On Feb 11 |
NairaLTQ: You are being very dodgy. Your comprehension of the English language is beyond what you try to confuse with. I say: honesttalk21: You cannot detect the supposed nature of the statement Consideration of Allah as a spirit is a matter beyond human comprehension? The What if nature? But you say NairaLTQ: I will show you that he is NOT a boundless spiritual entity is part of your statement. Your show style interjected with many other questions further beclouds what you say. You could have stated your showing clearly first before going into other questions if you were not trying to confuse? |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by Expanse2020(m): 8:14am On Feb 11 |
SIRTee15:Sunni Muslim Buhari 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 SHM for you |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by Expanse2020(m): 8:15am On Feb 11 |
SIRTee15:Google translate can do these for you for free |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by NairaLTQ: 8:20am On Feb 11 |
honesttalk21:You are spinning a Web of utmost contradiction. The first is according to the consensus of your scholars, 1. Allah is NOT a spirit. AND 2. The Spirit is a Creation of of Allah The notion or consideration that Allah as a spirit is a matter beyond human comprehension is FALACY because Allah is NOT a spirit in the first place! It's just like saying :Does this make sense to you? Is this not an impossible contradiction? |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 8:57am On Feb 11 |
SIRTee15: Alright you bring the Sophia of Jesus. What book is this? The Sophia of Jesus Christ is a text found in the Nag Hammadi library, a collection of early Christian documents discovered in 1945. Isn't it considered to be a product of early Christian Gnostic thought, which developed in the 2nd century CE or later? The text reflects Gnostic beliefs about the nature of reality, divine emanations, and salvation through secret knowledge (gnosis). What's the view of Christianity on Gnosticism? Interesting you come to this to deliver your point. SIRTee15: The Didache, an early Christian document addressing moral directives, liturgical instructions, and church organization, has captivated scholars and theologians for centuries however one of the primary concerns regarding the authenticity of the Didache is its lack of early manuscripts. The earliest extant copy of the Didache dates back to the late 10th century, making it difficult to verify the accuracy of its content. As scholar Clayton N. Jefford notes, "The absence of early manuscripts leaves the Didache open to interpolations, editing, and redaction by later generations" (Jefford, 2009, p. 9). Another factor diminishing the authenticity of the Didache is the lack of explicit references to it in early Christian literature. The Didache purportedly originated in the first century, yet early Church Fathers, such as Clement of Alexandria and Origen, who extensively quoted and referred to various early Christian writings, never mentioned the Didache. The Didache offers a seemingly well-developed set of church instructions, outlining practices such as baptism, eucharist, and church hierarchy. However, these practices described in the Didache reflect a later, more developed stage of early Christianity compared to the period in which it claims to have been written (Niederwimmer, 2002). |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 8:58am On Feb 11 |
SIRTee15: SIRTee15: No worries being the Sophia however isn't the Sophia of Jesus Christ is a text found in the Nag Hammadi library, a collection of early Christian documents discovered in 1945 near Nag Hammadi, Egypt? Is it not considered a product of early Christian Gnostic thought, which developed in the 2nd century CE or later? We're Gnostics not dualists and worshipped two (or more) gods? Was it at variance with Christianity? If this is correct how come this is your tool/source for proof? |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 9:23am On Feb 11 |
NairaLTQ: Nature of Allah Allah, is beyond human comprehension, thus making it challenging to capture the essence of Allah as a spirit with the limitations of language. The Quranic view portrays Allah as transcendent and immanent simultaneously, reflecting the infinite nature of the Divine. It posits the belief that Allah is not confined to a material or physical body as humans, but is a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension. Have you seen a spirit before? Yet you believe it's there? Does the Bible not have verses stating the eyes of man cannot behold God or no eyes of man have seen God. There are many symbolic expressions through which God is described |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by TenQ: 10:58am On Feb 11 |
honesttalk21:I have no qualms about describing God as transcendent and immanent simultaneously, reflecting the infinite nature of the Divine. You mean well for Allah but the writings of your prophet has constrained you. My problem is three folds 1. Your prophet did not describe Allah as of infinite nature because Sunan Abi Dawud Hadith 4712 Abu Hurairah said: The people asked: Messenger of Allah! Shall we see our lord, the Exalted, on the Day of resurrection? He replied: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the sun at noon when it is not in the cloud? They said: No. He asked: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the moon on the night when it is full and not in the cloud? They replied: No. He said: By him in whose hand my soul is, you will not feel any trouble in seeing him except as much as you feel in seeing any of them. If you can see Allah, he is not infinite. 2. Allah is above the seven heavens he cannot also be below the seven heavens at the same time. Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying that Allah said to him: Sahih Muslim Book 5, Hadith 2179 "Spend, I will bestow upon you." And the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: The right hand of Allah is full and spending (the riches) liberally during day and night will not diminish (the resources of Allah). Don't you see what (an enormous amount of resources) He has spent since He created the heaven and the earth, and what is in His right hand has not decreased? His Throne is upon the water. And in His other hand is death, and He elevates and degrades (whom He likes). Allah need to come down from his location in heaven to the third heaven to listen to you Muslims. Sahih Bukhari Hadith 1145 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Messenger (p.b.u.h) said, "Our Lord, the Blessed, the Superior, comes every night down on the nearest Heaven to us when the last third of the night remains, saying: "Is there anyone to invoke Me, so that I may respond to invocation? Is there anyone to ask Me, so that I may grant him his request? Is there anyone seeking My forgiveness, so that I may forgive him?" If Allah comes down, how can he be transcendent? 3. Allah is NOT a spirit! This kills everything We are having a contradiction between what Mohammed describes Allah and what you modern Muslims want Allah to be. 1 Like |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 12:14pm On Feb 11 |
TenQ: The hadith you refer to is with respect to when? While still on earth or after death, resurrection and judgement? Allah is all hearing and all knowing? Does he only hear at a given time at a given location? This is an utterly silly argument as expected from you. Ideally I would ignore. Of course you don't understand the special favour on those who go this extra length to seek their wants and pleasure of Allah. Do you engage in night vigil prayers? What makes it different than other prayers? When you don't understand the symbolic speech you cannot understand and are not truly willing to learn. |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 1:19pm On Feb 11 |
SIRTee15: Nobody is debating semantics but categorically telling you what you choose not to accept that and could mean Slave just as well Servant. Enough examples have been shown to you and despite your ridicule deepened in tribal or racial bigotry you know the truth and probably better than before. Abd is not exclusively an Arabic word for slave. Even if it is I and all Muslims are proud to be slaves of Allah. |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by TenQ: 1:27pm On Feb 11 |
honesttalk21: Does it matter!? Does Allah change? Allah is finite else you won't be able to see him. honesttalk21:You forget that Allah sends his angel like jibril to do those kinds of chores for him. You do not think that Allah didn't come to give his prophet the Qur'an but had to send Jibril for it. Quran 50:17-18 When the two (angels) who keep the account, one sitting on the right, one on the left, take it down, There is not a word he utters but an observer is ready (to make note of it). Your prophet thinks that the angels of Allah are the ones who give him the information about people here on earth. Mohammed speaking is not symbolic in any ways. Is the Al-Burak symbolic or real? The paradise Mohammed went to :was it symbolic or real? We're the spirits of the prophets Mohammed met in heaven real or metamorphic? Is the water under the throne of Allah real or not. Are the heavens mentioned by Mohammed real or not. Can Allah change his shape or not according to Mohammed? If you had answered my questions, you would not have this mix up you are having |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by SIRTee15: 3:21pm On Feb 11 |
honesttalk21: Egbami, am I the one using racial slurs against black Muslims by calling them abd. Am I the one who invented the word abd as a denigration against black Muslim. By calling your attention to how people use the word abeed as turned to me ridiculing Muslims? Did U condemn the use of abeed as a racial slur by Arabs against black Muslims ? U know what I think? U black Muslims are cowards. U are not only a slave to Allah but slaves to Arabs. U people dare not look into the face of Arabs and criticise them for their denigration of black Muslims. U came here saying Arabs calling blacks racial slurs doenst matter and shouldn't bother me. I even queried how it affects me. In short Arabs can continue to insult blacks, it doesn't matter so long as all Muslims are all slaves of Allah!!!! What a shame and loss of dignity in the black Muslim community. 1 Like |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by TenQ: 5:45pm On Feb 11 |
I am sure you can see why I asked my questions. If you had answered them, they would have answered both our comprehension of the matter at hand. Again honesttalk21: You said many things that were not true according to Islam. You said that Allah is a boundless spirit! This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam. You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne? Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal? 1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit? If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity! 2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne? 3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an? Then Allah is describable 4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape? Then he cannot be boundless! 5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal? 6. Can Allah enter into his creation? Again: I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out 1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit? 2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah? 3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself? Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these 1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!? 2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah? We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit! Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam? Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed! Thank you! |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 6:11pm On Feb 11 |
SIRTee15: Perhaps you should explain what your intent is in posting: SIRTee15: SIRTee15: Highlighted your reference to a black Muslim and an Arabian Muslim. What are you saying really? |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by honesttalk21: 6:14pm On Feb 11 |
TenQ: W.r.t Allah is a boundless spirit! Kindly quote the phrase/sentence where it is in full for holistic understanding. |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by SIRTee15: 6:23pm On Feb 11 |
honesttalk21: TenQ, I think we should also awaken the consciousness of our African Muslims brothers/sisters to the slavery mindset they have towards Arabs. I pointed this out to honesttalk to show the reality of the word abeed, instead he accused me of being racist and denigrating towards black Muslims. What a shame!!! |
Re: When the Qur'an is misinterpretated : Did Jesus Die On The Cross? by TenQ: 7:06pm On Feb 11 |
honesttalk21:Dear Gaskiyamagana or Honesttalk21, Repeating rhetorics doesn't change the fact on ground. If Allah is a boundless spirit at least first show from the Hadiths or Tafsir or Sirah or the Qur'an where Allah is a spirit! Islam is caught in its own web of fabrications! |
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