honesttalk21:


Your vehemence in constantly using Didache as a credible historical report is strongly rejected. You should bring up another.

The Didache, aka The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, is an ancient Christian text believed to have been written in the first or early second century. While it offers valuable insights into the beliefs and practices of the early Christian community, it is important to recognize its limitations as a historically valid collection due to the presence of bias within its content.

It cannot be considered a wholly unbiased and historically valid collection due to its inherent theological bias, selective representation of early Christian communities, intentional selectivity, lack of historical context, and the subjective nature of interpretation. Historians, require other reliable historical sources to supplement Didache's contents for it to gain the reputation of a true historical book.

Historically was there a Jesus? How will this be when at the time of his existence there wasn't a J in the semantic language of Aramaic. What is the name of Jesus in Aramaic language?

The name Jesus was called when he was alive was ‘Isho’.The language he spoke is called ‘Aramaic’. More precisely, he spoke a dialect of Aramaic called the Jewish Palestinian Aramaic.
In Aramaic, there is nothing like ‘Joshua’, ‘Yeshua’, ‘Jesus’, ‘Yahoshua’ etc.

His name ‘isho’ became spelt as ‘Yeshu’ (same pronunciation) when the Hebrew language was used to write about him.

This is Sophia of jesus
Mishnah
Eugnostos the blessed

[quote author=Expanse2020 post=128376610][/quote]
It is easy to catch a liar!

What is the smell of honey?


Islam and Lies!

honesttalk21:


Your vehemence in constantly using Didache as a credible historical report is strongly rejected. You should bring up another.

The Didache, aka The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, is an ancient Christian text believed to have been written in the first or early second century. While it offers valuable insights into the beliefs and practices of the early Christian community, it is important to recognize its limitations as a historically valid collection due to the presence of bias within its content.

It cannot be considered a wholly unbiased and historically valid collection due to its inherent theological bias, selective representation of early Christian communities, intentional selectivity, lack of historical context, and the subjective nature of interpretation. Historians, require other reliable historical sources to supplement Didache's contents for it to gain the reputation of a true historical bo ok.

Historically was there a Jesus? How will this be when at the time of his existence there wasn't a J in the semantic language of Aramaic. What is the name of Jesus in Aramaic language?

The name Jesus was called when he was alive was ‘Isho’.The language he spoke is called ‘Aramaic’. More precisely, he spoke a dialect of Aramaic called the Jewish Palestinian Aramaic.
In Aramaic, there is nothing like ‘Joshua’, ‘Yeshua’, ‘Jesus’, ‘Yahoshua’ etc.

His name ‘isho’ became spelt as ‘Yeshu’ (same pronunciation) when the Hebrew language was used to write about him.

And where is your evidence for this. That historians reject Didache as a reliable source.
U just making bogus claim that cannot be backed by any scholarly or expert evidence.
These are extant from works of scholars on the book. If U cannot produced evidence then I suggest U desist from making unsound and unproven arguments here.

U already made such careless utterances in the fetal position debate and U are repeating it here again.

Anyway I already gave u other sources of books confirming Jesus called father. U are simply desperately hiding behind a finger.

honesttalk21:


Be sorry for yourself.

Show directly and don't try to confuse with questions. Get to the point and stop being verbose. ATTN: @Tenq

You said many things that were not true according to Islam.

You said that
Allah is a boundless spirit!
This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam.
You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne?
Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal?


1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit?
If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity!
2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne?
3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an?
Then Allah is describable
4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape?
Then he cannot be boundless!
5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal?
6. Can Allah enter into his creation?


Again:
I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out

1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit?
2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah?
3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself?




Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these

1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!?
2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah?


We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit!

You said:
Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam?

Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed!


Thank you!

NairaLTQ:


You said many things that were not true according to Islam.

You said that
Allah is a boundless spirit!
This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam.
You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne?
Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal?


1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit?
If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity!
2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne?
3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an?
Then Allah is describable
4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape?
Then he cannot be boundless!
5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal?
6. Can Allah enter into his creation?


Again:
I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out

1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit?
2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah?
3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself?




Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these

1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!?
2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah?


We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit!

You said:
Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam?

Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed!


Thank you!

Manipulating my statement? Very much like you.

Show me Allah is a boundless spirit in my submission

You asking other questions is your trade mark? Show your proof then place your questions to justify not the other way round.

When you don't understand something come out straight to ask and don't hide in the dark with questions. Nobody sees you or is interested in groping in the dark with you.

honesttalk21:



Historically was there a Jesus? How will this be when at the time of his existence there wasn't a J in the semantic language of Aramaic. What is the name of Jesus in Aramaic language?

The name Jesus was called when he was alive was ‘Isho’.The language he spoke is called ‘Aramaic’. More precisely, he spoke a dialect of Aramaic called the Jewish Palestinian Aramaic.
In Aramaic, there is nothing like ‘Joshua’, ‘Yeshua’, ‘Jesus’, ‘Yahoshua’ etc.

His name ‘isho’ became spelt as ‘Yeshu’ (same pronunciation) when the Hebrew language was used to write about him.

Another bogus claim that U can't produce any evidence for.
Show me an evidence where Jesus was called isho in Palestinian Aramaic or ISA in Arabic.
U have none, nothing.

Jesus name in Aramaic spoken in judea region mean 'Yahweh saves' and that's translates to Yeshua/ Yeoshua in hebrew. That's the only name that match that definition.
Isho is the syriac-peshitta aramaic derivation of the name. Jesus never spoke that dialect.
Jesus is called Yeshu in the Talmud- a shortened derivative of the name Yeshua.
There's no where he was ever called Isa, the Arab Christians called him Yasu.

I won't waste my time with arguing the origin of Jesus with u. Nobody ever said he was called Jesus Christ.

honesttalk21:


Manipulating my statement? Very much like you.

Show me Allah is a boundless spirit in my submission

You asking other questions is your trade mark? Show your proof then place your questions to justify not the other way round.

When you don't understand something come out straight to ask and don't hide in the dark with questions. Nobody sees you or is interested in groping in the dark with you.

Is this from you or not

honesttalk21:


Nature of Allah
Allah, is beyond human comprehension, thus making it challenging to capture the essence of Allah as a spirit with the limitations of language. The Quranic view portrays Allah as transcendent and immanent simultaneously, reflecting the infinite nature of the Divine. It posits the belief that Allah is not confined to a material or physical body as humans, but is a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension.

Meaning :
Allah is a Spirit
Allah is Boundless as a spirit.



Here below is an extract of one of your Fatwa to answer if Allah is a spirit

"The spirit or soul is not one of the attributes of Allaah, rather it is one of the things that have been created by Allaah. It is mentioned in conjunction with Allaah in some texts by way of honouring, for Allaah is its Creator and Sovereign, He takes it (in death) whenever He wills and He sends it whenever He wills."
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/50774/he-is-debating-with-a-christian-and-is-asking-does-god-have-a-spirit


I have never read from any of your scholars that Allah is a spirit : thus, you are the only one who can give me your alternate sources that Allah is a spirit.



Do you care about the Truth?
So, will you now respond to my questions?


When you ask questions, you will become free!

Again honesttalk21:

You said many things that were not true according to Islam.

You said that
Allah is a boundless spirit!
This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam.
You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne?
Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal?


1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit?
If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity!
2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne?
3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an?
Then Allah is describable
4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape?
Then he cannot be boundless!
5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal?
6. Can Allah enter into his creation?


Again:
I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out

1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit?
2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah?
3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself?




Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these

1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!?
2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah?


We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit!

Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam?

Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed!


Thank you!

honesttalk21:



Historically was there a Jesus? How will this be when at the time of his existence there wasn't a J in the semantic language of Aramaic. What is the name of Jesus in Aramaic language?

The name Jesus was called when he was alive was ‘Isho’.The language he spoke is called ‘Aramaic’. More precisely, he spoke a dialect of Aramaic called the Jewish Palestinian Aramaic.
In Aramaic, there is nothing like ‘Joshua’, ‘Yeshua’, ‘Jesus’, ‘Yahoshua’ etc.

His name ‘isho’ became spelt as ‘Yeshu’ (same pronunciation) when the Hebrew language was used to write about him.

Even scholars have researched ISA and that have no idea where Muhammed fabricate it from.
I keep saying it, Koran can not survive historical scrutiny. It will fall yakata for ground.

NairaLTQ:


Is this from you or not



Meaning :
Allah is a Spirit
Allah is Boundless as a spirit.



Here below is an extract of one of your Fatwa to answer if Allah is a spirit

"The spirit or soul is not one of the attributes of Allaah, rather it is one of the things that have been created by Allaah. It is mentioned in conjunction with Allaah in some texts by way of honouring, for Allaah is its Creator and Sovereign, He takes it (in death) whenever He wills and He sends it whenever He wills."
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/50774/he-is-debating-with-a-christian-and-is-asking-does-god-have-a-spirit


I have never read from any of your scholars that Allah is a spirit : thus, you are the only one who can give me your alternate sources that Allah is a spirit.



Do you care about the Truth?
So, will you now respond to my questions?


When you ask questions, you will become free!

You see yourself. Fatwa by who? Not me but still

The spirit or soul is not one of the attributes of Allaah, rather it is one of the things that have been created by Allaah.[/color][/b] It is mentioned in conjunction with Allaah in some texts by way of honouring, for Allaah is its Creator and Sovereign, He takes it (in death) whenever He wills and He sends it whenever He wills.

THE SPIRIT OR SOUL IS NOT ONE OF THE ATTRRIBUTES OF ALLAH

IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED BY ALLAH

NairaLTQ:


Is this from you or not



Meaning :
Allah is a Spirit
Allah is Boundless as a spirit.



Here below is an extract of one of your Fatwa to answer if Allah is a spirit

"The spirit or soul is not one of the attributes of Allaah, rather it is one of the things that have been created by Allaah. It is mentioned in conjunction with Allaah in some texts by way of honouring, for Allaah is its Creator and Sovereign, He takes it (in death) whenever He wills and He sends it whenever He wills."
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/50774/he-is-debating-with-a-christian-and-is-asking-does-god-have-a-spirit


I have never read from any of your scholars that Allah is a spirit : thus, you are the only one who can give me your alternate sources that Allah is a spirit.



Do you care about the Truth?
So, will you now respond to my questions?


When you ask questions, you will become free!

A clear similitude of twisting of tongues. As you are wont to do you didn't quote in full.

Allah is not confined to a material or physical body as humans, but is a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension

Boundless means what? Surpasses human comprehension means what?

The spirit you know is bound within your definitions and exaggeration but there is non of these in which you can limit Allah. All other spirits are limited by Allah or aren't they?

honesttalk21:


You see yourself. Fatwa by who? Not me but still

The spirit or soul is not one of the attributes of Allaah, rather it is one of the things that have been created by Allaah.[/color][/b] It is mentioned in conjunction with Allaah in some texts by way of honouring, for Allaah is its Creator and Sovereign, He takes it (in death) whenever He wills and He sends it whenever He wills.

THE SPIRIT OR SOUL IS NOT ONE OF THE ATTRRIBUTES OF ALLAH

IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED BY ALLAH

I asked you questions, and you demanded for evidence : therefore, I gave you a fatwa otherwise, please give me answers to my questions.

You note that :
1. If the Spirit is NOT an attribute of Allah but a creation, do you now agree that
"Allah could not have been a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension." ?

2. If the Spirit is created by Allah, do you concur that such can not be called "spirit of Allah" for the spirit come from within Allah?

3. Is the spirit a living thing or non living thing?

honesttalk21:


A clear similitude of twisting of tongues. As you are wont to do you didn't quote in full.

Allah is not confined to a material or physical body as humans, but is a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension

Boundless means what? Surpasses human comprehension means what?

The spirit you know is bound within your definitions and exaggeration but there is non of these in which you can limit Allah. All other spirits are limited by Allah or aren't they?

But you just admitted that the Spirit was created by Allah!
Did Allah create himself?

Is it untrue that according to your prophet that Allah is on his throne above the seven heavens?

Sunan Ibn Majah 4331
Mu’adh bin Jabal said:
“I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: ‘Paradise has one hundred grades, each of which is as big as the distance between heaven and earth. The highest of them is Firdaws and the best of them is Firdaws. The Throne is above Firdaws and from it spring forth the rivers of Paradise. If you ask of Allah, ask Him for Firdaws.’”

How can Allah be boundless when he is ABOVE the heavens?

NairaLTQ:


I notice that you said many things that are anti-Islam and thus, I asked you questions to help you see the contradiction with what Islam truly teaches

You have conjured up another picture of Allah that is not according to your prophet. Allah is one indeed and I will show you that he is NOT a boundless spiritual entity

This is the show I ask of. Does this equate asking for evidence? Show or discuss your claim. Keep your following questions until after this is done.

Despite Allah being described as existing above the heavens, this elevated position does not confine Allah's boundless nature.

Allah being above the heavens, refers to a position that surpasses all material and earthly constraints. This placement is not meant to indicate confinement but serves to emphasize Allah's separation from earthly matters and his elevated status.

honesttalk21:


This is the show I ask of. Does this equate asking for evidence? Show or discuss your claim. Keep your following questions until after this is done.

Despite Allah being described as existing above the heavens, this elevated position does not confine Allah's boundless nature.

Allah being above the heavens, refers to a position that surpasses all material and earthly constraints. This placement is not meant to indicate confinement but serves to emphasize Allah's separation from earthly matters and his elevated status.

I have ALREADY discussed my claims with you sir
1. Islamic scholars insist that Allah is NOT a Spirit and that the spirit is created by Allah. I gave you a Fatwa as an example. Even you have agreed with their submissions about Allah. Is Allah created!? You answer is NO! But is the Spirit created!? YES!

The implication is that Allah CANNOT be described as a SPIRIT.
Secondly, if Allah is NOT a spirit, he cannot be a boundless spirit.

2. Is it untrue that Mohammed described the seven heavens as physically above the earth with the subsequent one higher that the previous heaven and that Allah is ABOVE the highest heavens on his throne.

Is it untrue that Mohammed promised that you Muslims will see Allah at about the day of resurrection?

These two show that Allah is NOT boundless. Allah is finite, that is why he is above the heavens And can be seen by Muslims

NairaLTQ:

I have ALREADY discussed my claims with you sir
1. Islamic scholars insist that Allah is NOT a Spirit and that the spirit is created by Allah. I gave you a Fatwa as an example. Even you have agreed with their submissions about Allah. Is Allah created!? You answer is NO! But is the Spirit created!? YES!

The implication is that Allah CANNOT be described as a SPIRIT.
Secondly, if Allah is NOT a spirit, he cannot be a boundless spirit.

2. Is it untrue that Mohammed described the seven heavens as physically above the earth with the subsequent one higher that the previous heaven and that Allah is ABOVE the highest heavens on his throne.

Is it untrue that Mohammed promised that you Muslims will see Allah at about the day of resurrection?

These two show that Allah is NOT boundless. Allah is finite, that is why he is above the heavens And can be seen by Muslims

You are being very dodgy.
Your comprehension of the English language is beyond what you try to confuse with. I say:

honesttalk21:


Nature of Allah

Consideration of Allah as a spirit is a matter beyond human comprehension. Unlike any physical embodiment, Allah is believed to transcend the boundaries of space, time, and matter, existing in a realm beyond human perception. This essence is described as Qudrah, the divine power that encompasses all things in creation and beyond.

Qudrah encompasses the belief that Allah has complete control over all things and possesses the ultimate power to create, sustain, and govern the universe.

You cannot detect the supposed nature of the statement Consideration of Allah as a spirit is a matter beyond human comprehension? The What if nature?

But you say

NairaLTQ:
Sorry, you addressed this to yourself : however, I am responding

I notice that you said many things that are anti-Islam and thus, I asked you questions to help you see the contradiction with what Islam truly teaches



You have conjured up another picture of Allah that is not according to your prophet. Allah is one indeed and I will show you that he is NOT a boundless spiritual entity

Truthfully answering the following questions will expose the Antiislam posture of this your quote above
1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit?
If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity!
2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne?
3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an?
Then Allah is describable
4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape?
Then he cannot be boundless!
5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal?
6. Can Allah enter into his creation?




Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit?
2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah?
3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself?




1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!?
2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah?


We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit!

You said:

Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam?

Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed!

I will show you that he is NOT a boundless spiritual entity is part of your statement. Your show style interjected with many other questions further beclouds what you say.

You could have stated your showing clearly first before going into other questions if you were not trying to confuse?

SIRTee15:


Ask ibraheem zakzaki, the Shia head in Nigeria. He will tell U his ordeal in the hand of Sunni Muslim buhari and how his 7 sons were killed.

Sunni Muslim Buhari 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


SHM for you

SIRTee15:


Show me any historical evidence Jesus was ever called Issa or ussau by any tribe b4 Muhammed came on stage with his fabricated story.
What were Arabs calling jesus b4 Muhammed appeared with his fabu. What do Arab Christians call Jesus today- Issa or Yasu?
That's all I'm asking.

Google translate can do these for you for free

honesttalk21:


You are being very dodgy.
Your comprehension of the English language is beyond what you try to confuse with. I say:



You cannot detect the supposed nature of the statement Consideration of Allah as a spirit is a matter beyond human comprehension? The What if nature?

But you say



I will show you that he is NOT a boundless spiritual entity is part of your statement. Your show style interjected with many other questions further beclouds what you say.

You could have stated your showing clearly first before going into other questions if you were not trying to confuse?

You are spinning a Web of utmost contradiction.

The first is according to the consensus of your scholars,
1. Allah is NOT a spirit.
AND
2. The Spirit is a Creation of of Allah

The notion or consideration that Allah as a spirit is a matter beyond human comprehension is FALACY because Allah is NOT a spirit in the first place!

It's just like saying :
Allah is not a FISH
But
Allah is a Fish and this is beyond human comprehension

Does this make sense to you?
Is this not an impossible contradiction?

SIRTee15:


This is Sophia of jesus
Mishnah
Eugnostos the blessed

Alright you bring the Sophia of Jesus. What book is this?

The Sophia of Jesus Christ is a text found in the Nag Hammadi library, a collection of early Christian documents discovered in 1945.

Isn't it considered to be a product of early Christian Gnostic thought, which developed in the 2nd century CE or later? The text reflects Gnostic beliefs about the nature of reality, divine emanations, and salvation through secret knowledge (gnosis).

What's the view of Christianity on Gnosticism?

Interesting you come to this to deliver your point.

SIRTee15:


And where is your evidence for this. That historians reject Didache as a reliable source.
U just making bogus claim that cannot be backed by any scholarly or expert evidence.
These are extant from works of scholars on the book. If U cannot produced evidence then I suggest U desist from making unsound and unproven arguments here.

The Didache, an early Christian document addressing moral directives, liturgical instructions, and church organization, has captivated scholars and theologians for centuries however one of the primary concerns regarding the authenticity of the Didache is its lack of early manuscripts.

The earliest extant copy of the Didache dates back to the late 10th century, making it difficult to verify the accuracy of its content. As scholar Clayton N. Jefford notes, "The absence of early manuscripts leaves the Didache open to interpolations, editing, and redaction by later generations" (Jefford, 2009, p. 9).

Another factor diminishing the authenticity of the Didache is the lack of explicit references to it in early Christian literature. The Didache purportedly originated in the first century, yet early Church Fathers, such as Clement of Alexandria and Origen, who extensively quoted and referred to various early Christian writings, never mentioned the Didache.

The Didache offers a seemingly well-developed set of church instructions, outlining practices such as baptism, eucharist, and church hierarchy. However, these practices described in the Didache reflect a later, more developed stage of early Christianity compared to the period in which it claims to have been written (Niederwimmer, 2002).

SIRTee15:


This is Sophia of jesus
Mishnah
Eugnostos the blessed

SIRTee15:


And where is your evidence for this. That historians reject Didache as a reliable source.
U just making bogus claim that cannot be backed by any scholarly or expert evidence.
These are extant from works of scholars on the book. If U cannot produced evidence then I suggest U desist from making unsound and unproven arguments here.

No worries being the Sophia however isn't the Sophia of Jesus Christ is a text found in the Nag Hammadi library, a collection of early Christian documents discovered in 1945 near Nag Hammadi, Egypt?

Is it not considered a product of early Christian Gnostic thought, which developed in the 2nd century CE or later?

We're Gnostics not dualists and worshipped two (or more) gods? Was it at variance with Christianity? If this is correct how come this is your tool/source for proof?

NairaLTQ:

You are spinning a Web of utmost contradiction.

The first is according to the consensus of your scholars,
1. Allah is NOT a spirit.
AND
2. The Spirit is a Creation of of Allah

The notion or consideration that Allah as a spirit is a matter beyond human comprehension is FALACY because Allah is NOT a spirit in the first place!






Does this make sense to you?
Is this not an impossible contradiction?

Nature of Allah
Allah, is beyond human comprehension, thus making it challenging to capture the essence of Allah as a spirit with the limitations of language.

The Quranic view portrays Allah as transcendent and immanent simultaneously, reflecting the infinite nature of the Divine. It posits the belief that Allah is not confined to a material or physical body as humans, but is a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension.

Have you seen a spirit before?
Yet you believe it's there?
Does the Bible not have verses stating the eyes of man cannot behold God or no eyes of man have seen God.

There are many symbolic expressions through which God is described

honesttalk21:


Nature of Allah
Allah, is beyond human comprehension, thus making it challenging to capture the essence of Allah as a spirit with the limitations of language.

The Quranic view portrays Allah as transcendent and immanent simultaneously, reflecting the infinite nature of the Divine. It posits the belief that Allah is not confined to a material or physical body as humans, but is a boundless spiritual entity that surpasses human comprehension.

Have you seen a spirit before?
Yet you believe it's there?
Does the Bible not have verses stating the eyes of man cannot behold God or no eyes of man have seen God.

There are many symbolic expressions through which God is described

I have no qualms about describing God as transcendent and immanent simultaneously, reflecting the infinite nature of the Divine.

You mean well for Allah but the writings of your prophet has constrained you.

My problem is three folds
1. Your prophet did not describe Allah as of infinite nature because
Sunan Abi Dawud Hadith 4712
Abu Hurairah said:
The people asked: Messenger of Allah! Shall we see our lord, the Exalted, on the Day of resurrection? He replied: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the sun at noon when it is not in the cloud? They said: No. He asked: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the moon on the night when it is full and not in the cloud? They replied: No. He said: By him in whose hand my soul is, you will not feel any trouble in seeing him except as much as you feel in seeing any of them.

If you can see Allah, he is not infinite.

2. Allah is above the seven heavens he cannot also be below the seven heavens at the same time.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying that Allah said to him:
Sahih Muslim Book 5, Hadith 2179
"Spend, I will bestow upon you." And the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: The right hand of Allah is full and spending (the riches) liberally during day and night will not diminish (the resources of Allah). Don't you see what (an enormous amount of resources) He has spent since He created the heaven and the earth, and what is in His right hand has not decreased? His Throne is upon the water. And in His other hand is death, and He elevates and degrades (whom He likes).


Allah need to come down from his location in heaven to the third heaven to listen to you Muslims.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith 1145
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (p.b.u.h) said, "Our Lord, the Blessed, the Superior, comes every night down on the nearest Heaven to us when the last third of the night remains, saying: "Is there anyone to invoke Me, so that I may respond to invocation? Is there anyone to ask Me, so that I may grant him his request? Is there anyone seeking My forgiveness, so that I may forgive him?"

If Allah comes down, how can he be transcendent?

3. Allah is NOT a spirit!
This kills everything




We are having a contradiction between what Mohammed describes Allah and what you modern Muslims want Allah to be.

TenQ:

I have no qualms about describing God as transcendent and immanent simultaneously, reflecting the infinite nature of the Divine.

You mean well for Allah but the writings of your prophet has constrained you.

My problem is three folds
1. Your prophet did not describe Allah as of infinite nature because
Sunan Abi Dawud Hadith 4712
Abu Hurairah said:
The people asked: Messenger of Allah! Shall we see our lord, the Exalted, on the Day of resurrection? He replied: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the sun at noon when it is not in the cloud? They said: No. He asked: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the moon on the night when it is full and not in the cloud? They replied: No. He said: By him in whose hand my soul is, you will not feel any trouble in seeing him except as much as you feel in seeing any of them.

If you can see Allah, he is not infinite.

2. Allah is above the seven heavens he cannot also be below the seven heavens at the same time.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying that Allah said to him:
Sahih Muslim Book 5, Hadith 2179
"Spend, I will bestow upon you." And the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: The right hand of Allah is full and spending (the riches) liberally during day and night will not diminish (the resources of Allah). Don't you see what (an enormous amount of resources) He has spent since He created the heaven and the earth, and what is in His right hand has not decreased? His Throne is upon the water. And in His other hand is death, and He elevates and degrades (whom He likes).


Allah need to come down from his location in heaven to the third heaven to listen to you Muslims.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith 1145
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (p.b.u.h) said, "Our Lord, the Blessed, the Superior, comes every night down on the nearest Heaven to us when the last third of the night remains, saying: "Is there anyone to invoke Me, so that I may respond to invocation? Is there anyone to ask Me, so that I may grant him his request? Is there anyone seeking My forgiveness, so that I may forgive him?"

If Allah comes down, how can he be transcendent?

3. Allah is NOT a spirit!
This kills everything




We are having a contradiction between what Mohammed describes Allah and what you modern Muslims want Allah to be.

The hadith you refer to is with respect to when? While still on earth or after death, resurrection and judgement?

Allah is all hearing and all knowing? Does he only hear at a given time at a given location?
This is an utterly silly argument as expected from you. Ideally I would ignore.
Of course you don't understand the special favour on those who go this extra length to seek their wants and pleasure of Allah.
Do you engage in night vigil prayers? What makes it different than other prayers?


When you don't understand the symbolic speech you cannot understand and are not truly willing to learn.

SIRTee15:


I'm.not here to debate semantics with U.
If Muslims call themselves Abdullah, we would have been hearing it up and down. U are the only one claiming Muslims call themselves Abdullah.
Show me in the Koran where Muslims are called Abdullah.
The whole Koran is filled with slaves of Allah and not Abdullah or worshippers of Allah.
Guy u can't know Koran more than those who translated Arabic to English. If U have a problem, argue with them.
U are not Arabic or linguistics expert either so your opinio don't count.

Instead focus on things U can contribute without necessarily being an expert.

Who's the historical dhul-qarnayn
Explain how historical Jesus called God father when Koran said he didn't.

Finally, was the injil present and with the Christians during the time of Muhammed?

When I say injil, I mean the gospel revealed by Jesus- the true one according to our Muslims brothers.

Nobody is debating semantics but categorically telling you what you choose not to accept that and could mean Slave just as well Servant.

Enough examples have been shown to you and despite your ridicule deepened in tribal or racial bigotry you know the truth and probably better than before.

Abd is not exclusively an Arabic word for slave.
Even if it is I and all Muslims are proud to be slaves of Allah.

honesttalk21:


The hadith you refer to is with respect to when? While still on earth or after death, resurrection and judgement?

Does it matter!?
Does Allah change?
Allah is finite else you won't be able to see him.

honesttalk21:

Allah is all hearing and all knowing? Does he only hear at a given time at a given location?
This is an utterly silly argument as expected from you. Ideally I would ignore.
Of course you don't understand the special favour on those who go this extra length to seek their wants and pleasure of Allah.
Do you engage in night vigil prayers? What makes it different than other prayers?


When you don't understand the symbolic speech you cannot understand and are not truly willing to learn.

You forget that Allah sends his angel like jibril to do those kinds of chores for him. You do not think that Allah didn't come to give his prophet the Qur'an but had to send Jibril for it.

Quran 50:17-18
When the two (angels) who keep the account, one sitting on the right, one on the left, take it down, There is not a word he utters but an observer is ready (to make note of it).

Your prophet thinks that the angels of Allah are the ones who give him the information about people here on earth.

Mohammed speaking is not symbolic in any ways. Is the Al-Burak symbolic or real?
The paradise Mohammed went to :was it symbolic or real? We're the spirits of the prophets Mohammed met in heaven real or metamorphic? Is the water under the throne of Allah real or not. Are the heavens mentioned by Mohammed real or not. Can Allah change his shape or not according to Mohammed?

If you had answered my questions, you would not have this mix up you are having

honesttalk21:


Nobody is debating semantics but categorically telling you what you choose not to accept that and could mean Slave just as well Servant.

Enough examples have been shown to you and despite your ridicule deepened in tribal or racial bigotry you know the truth and probably better than before.

Abd is not exclusively an Arabic word for slave.
Even if it is I and all Muslims are proud to be slaves of Allah.

Egbami, am I the one using racial slurs against black Muslims by calling them abd.
Am I the one who invented the word abd as a denigration against black Muslim.
By calling your attention to how people use the word abeed as turned to me ridiculing Muslims?
Did U condemn the use of abeed as a racial slur by Arabs against black Muslims ?

U know what I think? U black Muslims are cowards. U are not only a slave to Allah but slaves to Arabs.
U people dare not look into the face of Arabs and criticise them for their denigration of black Muslims.

U came here saying Arabs calling blacks racial slurs doenst matter and shouldn't bother me. I even queried how it affects me.
In short Arabs can continue to insult blacks, it doesn't matter so long as all Muslims are all slaves of Allah!!!!
What a shame and loss of dignity in the black Muslim community.

I am sure you can see why I asked my questions. If you had answered them, they would have answered both our comprehension of the matter at hand.


Again honesttalk21:

You said many things that were not true according to Islam.

You said that
Allah is a boundless spirit!
This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam.
You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne?
Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal?


1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit?
If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity!
2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne?
3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an?
Then Allah is describable
4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape?
Then he cannot be boundless!
5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal?
6. Can Allah enter into his creation?


Again:
I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out

1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit?
2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah?
3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself?




Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these

1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!?
2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah?


We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit!

Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam?

Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed!


Thank you!

SIRTee15:


Egbami, am I the one using racial slurs against black Muslims by calling them abd.
Am I the one who invented the word abd as a denigration against black Muslim.
By calling your attention to how people use the word abeed as turned to me ridiculing Muslims?
Did U condemn the use of abeed as a racial slur by Arabs against black Muslims ?

U know what I think? U black Muslims are cowards. U are not only a slave to Allah but slaves to Arabs.
U people dare not look into the face of Arabs and criticise them for their denigration of black Muslims.

U came here saying Arabs calling blacks racial slurs doenst matter and shouldn't bother me. I even queried how it affects me.
In short Arabs can continue to insult blacks, it doesn't matter so long as all Muslims are all slaves of Allah!!!!
What a shame and loss of dignity in the black Muslim community.

Perhaps you should explain what your intent is in posting:

SIRTee15:



How can I have a problem with what the deity u worship calls u? All me and TenQ have been saying is be proud to be a slave to your deity. Don't deny the identity he gave u. Simple.
U are the one twisting the word of the Koran claiming abd means servant or worshippers in the Koran.

Congrats tha U finally embrace your true status. I hope u won't twist mouth again.

Now U didn't answer my questions
Why did the English translators of the Koran use slave of Allah instead of worshippers of Allah for abd.

If an Arab calls u abd, will U be proud he's worshipping u. Is it a good thing for an Arab to call a black man abd.

SIRTee15:


So black Muslim should smile n rejoice when thy are called abdi?

Highlighted your reference to a black Muslim and an Arabian Muslim. What are you saying really?

TenQ:
I am sure you can see why I asked my questions. If you had answered them, they would have answered both our comprehension of the matter at hand.


Again honesttalk21:

You said many things that were not true according to Islam.

You said that
Allah is a boundless spirit!
This is UNTRUE because Allah is not a spirit in Islam.
You said that Allah is boundless :but does he not live above the seven heavens on his throne?
Did you not mention that Allah is incomparable to anything yet Allah compares himself with Baal and your prophet compared him with Dajjal?


1. According to Islam, Is Allah a spirit?
If Allah is not a spirit, then he cannot be a boundless spiritual entity!
2. According to Islam,Is Allah above the seven heavens on his throne?
3. According to Islam, Did Allah compare himself to Baal in the Qur'an?
Then Allah is describable
4. According to Islam, Will all you Muslims see Allah on the day of resurrection with a certain shape?
Then he cannot be boundless!
5. According to Islam, Did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal?
6. Can Allah enter into his creation?


Again:
I have never found any text by any of your scholars that Allah is a Spirit, perhaps you will help me out

1. Can you give me either a Qur'an or a Hadith or a Tafsir that says that Allah is a spirit?
2. When Mohammed was asked about the Spirit : why did he not say that the Spirit is Allah?
3. Why then do you call Jibril the Holy Spirit because according to the Jews and the Christians, the only Person worthy to be called the Holy Spirit is God Himself?




Islam teaches that Jibril is The Holy Spirit and this is at variance to Allah himself being the Spirit, therefore you will need to help me out with these

1. Is the divine breathe of God "the SPIRIT"!?
2. Is Jibril and Jesus the breathe of Allah?


We Christians understand who the Spirit is BUT you don't. Our God is a Spirit!

Is the Spirit a symbol or reality in Islam?

Until you understand the proper definition of Spirit, you will continue to create an Islam different from the Islam of Mohammed!


Thank you!

W.r.t Allah is a boundless spirit! Kindly quote the phrase/sentence where it is in full for holistic understanding.

honesttalk21:


Perhaps you should explain what your intent is in posting:





Highlighted your reference to a black Muslim and an Arabian Muslim. What are you saying really?

TenQ, I think we should also awaken the consciousness of our African Muslims brothers/sisters to the slavery mindset they have towards Arabs.

I pointed this out to honesttalk to show the reality of the word abeed, instead he accused me of being racist and denigrating towards black Muslims.

What a shame!!!

honesttalk21:


W.r.t Allah is a boundless spirit! Kindly quote the phrase/sentence where it is in full for holistic understanding.

Dear Gaskiyamagana or Honesttalk21,
Repeating rhetorics doesn't change the fact on ground.

If Allah is a boundless spirit at least first show from the Hadiths or Tafsir or Sirah or the Qur'an where Allah is a spirit!


Islam is caught in its own web of fabrications!