Ok...I'm putting up chapter 3 - Was Jesus poor?

It is a DANGEROUS thing to have an idea and decide to go to the scriptures(in this case 'the mildas touch') for sole purpose of getting that idea endorsed – Bishop Noel Jones

shdemidemi:
It is a DANGEROUS thing to have an idea and decide to go to the scriptures(in this case 'the mildas touch') for sole purpose of getting that idea endorsed – Bishop Noel Jones

Just off-topic and kind of trivial but did you know he is related to Grace Jones
- Grace Jones of the "pull up to my bumper baby" fame and James Bond "A View to a Kill" film
- 1981 The Island Def Jam Music Group
- He's her brother
- Their dad was a pastor/bishop

nlMediator:


That has been the cornerstone of Hagin's and Kenyon's ministry - even before anybody on this thread was born! I can quote from several of his books - way before Midas Touch - where he says that our emphasis is on the NT. In fact, he and especially Kenyon are so Pauline you'd think some of our friends here are his disciples.

And when some of us show areas of the spiritual life under the New Covenant where Paul or the NT clearly INVALIDATE the OT what are we labelled?
When a person is SO 'PAULINE' in some respect and veers off in particularly key areas of our spiritual life, what do we make of that?

And he starred in Preachers of LA
I wonder how Preachers of Nigeria would look like

BabaGnoni:



Just off-topic and kind of trivial but did you know he is related to Grace Jones
- Grace Jones of the "pull up to my bumper baby" fame and James Bond "A View to a Kill" film
- 1981 The Island Def Jam Music Group
- He's her brother
- Their dad was a pastor/bishop

was Jesus Poor?Chapter 3 is up

pickabeau1, enjoy

Candour:

My brother, welcome back from the long absence.
Indeed I'm glad its the way he approached the bible. If that's how our pastors in Nigeria did approach the scriptures, we wouldn't be having 80% of the arguments we are currently having.
Some folks who say something similar like Hagin are accused of abandoning the old testament.

Thanks for welcoming me back, my dear brother! Now I feel special!!

Hagin's position on the application of the Scriptures has been my understanding and approach since the earliest part of my christian walk. It makes it easier to know why, for instance, the ritual laws in Leviticus do not apply to us.

Gombs:


Thanks for the input...where on earth have you been all the while?

My dear brother, I took a short break from NL - to retain my sanity! Glory to God, I got a few things accomplished in the process. Thanks for noticing my conspicuous absence!!

Good job Gombs
I'd be interested in whether the man reversed himself in this book, did he ever teach or prescribe what he is against?

I like the was prosperity myth busters are caricatured as anti-givers. It is far much easier to malign anyone who is against supporting the church for obvious reasons; spreading the gospel is costly.
Means don't justify the ends. Tithes put good use such as charity don't justify the legalism and threats used to exact them

nlMediator:


Thanks for welcoming me back, my dear brother! Now I feel special!!

Hagin's position on the application of the Scriptures has been my understanding and approach since the earliest part of my christian walk. It makes it easier to know why, for instance, the ritual laws in Leviticus do not apply to us.

yeah you're right......and also things like first fruits offerings which some pastors preach to their members or adding 20% as penalty for defaulting on tithe payments.

The things plenty actually but i'm glad some of them were dealt with in the book.

nlMediator:


My dear brother, I took a short break from NL - to retain my sanity! Glory to God, I got a few things accomplished in the process. Thanks for noticing my conspicuous absence!!

Really? Sometimes I question my sanity after being with some Nlders, often times it replies me.

Welcome

Gombs:
was Jesus Poor?Chapter 3 is up

pickabeau1, enjoy

So far so good.. a lot of the same things we know about faith and prosperity

A lot of it has centred on how his needs were met even though he never asked.His and his kids were met and the congregation supplied the needs of the pastor when his ministry started

The exposition on Jesus not poor is ok but a bit long but i can understand what he is trying to do

I will wait for the chap 7 and co..pls notify me however i have some questions


1. The message as it is written so far seems to be for a preacher or man of God. I will like to hear more on how he translated it to the layman
It is easy for a man of God who is loved and has a powerful ministry of signs and wonders to be blessed. This is not limited even to Christianity. The man of God should also want his followers to be blessed as against a focus on self using his spritual authority

2. I will like to highlight the words of the man of God here

Does this sound like Jesus and His disciples were poor and destitute, a traveling band of beggars who lived off the land, hand-to-mouth? Absolutely not. Their needs were met through the generosity of many partners who faithfully and consistently supported Jesus' ministry financially.

I believe these scriptural facts are compelling proof that Jesus was not poor, but was a prosperous man. Now I am not suggesting that He lived a lavish or extravagant lifestyle—that would not have been practical for Him. But Jesus had His needs met during His life on earth, and He was able to do what God asked Him to do.

The focus from his exposition on Jesus's life shows that Jesus knew his needs will be met. so he never worried
I get that
When did it change from trusting God to meet the needs of men of God and living in that faith to a naked grab for wealth, wealth acquistion and oppression of the laity by these same men

Everytime I go to church, its always a boasting session or the other..God gave a car, land , jet etc

3. How can the common man assess this prosperity or is it for the preachers alone

^^^
@nora544,
You probably now have a posting ban apart from having your post hidden up there
- what was the contents of the post

@vooks
Yeah, I know about him in Preachers of LA, I just was wondering whether anyone else knew he was related to Grace Jones

@ pickabeau1
You're to grin and bear it, not to have some questions

BabaGnoni:
^^^
@ pickabeau1
You're to grin and bear it, not to have some questions

i thought we were critiquing d book

pickabeau1:


So far so good.. a lot of the same things we know about faith and prosperity

A lot of it has centred on how his needs were met even though he never asked.His and his kids were met and the congregation supplied the needs of the pastor when his ministry started

The exposition on Jesus not poor is ok but a bit long but i can understand what he is trying to do

I will wait for the chap 7 and co..pls notify me however i have some questions

ok..i will notify you

1. The message as it is written so far seems to be for a preacher or man of God. I will like to hear more on how he translated it to the layman
It is easy for a man of God who is loved and has a powerful ministry of signs and wonders to be blessed. This is not limited even to Christianity. The man of God should also want his followers to be blessed as against a focus on self using his spritual authority

sir, it's all same principle....we all copied from Jesus, Paul did, anybody who does is bound to have same result.

2. I will like to highlight the words of the man of God here


The focus from his exposition on Jesus's life shows that Jesus knew his needs will be met.

Jesus knew God was able at all times to supply His needs, that was same sonesis Paul had when he penned it down in Phillipians 4

so he never worried

Ever wondered why He keeps telling us "Do not worry"? Same thought Paul found out and asked us to be careful for NOTHING- Phillipians 4:6

I get that
When did it change from trusting God to meet the needs of men of God and living in that faith to a naked grab for wealth, wealth acquistion and oppression of the laity by these same men

can you please rephrase your above question?

Everytime I go to church, its always a boasting session or the other..God gave a car, land , jet etc

Boasting sessions? Well in my church it isn't so.. if you say testimony session i can comprehend.

3. How can the common man assess this prosperity or is it for the preachers alone

Read that book, or go back to chapter 1 i posted... it gave conditions for prosperity, it applies to all, not just preachers, the book of Isaiah says " if you be willing and obedient... you shall eat the good of the land"

looks to me that condition is open to all, not just preachers alone.




[/quote]

Rephrased


When did pastors start the wealth race from a point of needs being met

Some give testimony of what God has done but u feel its like a boast

Gombs:


ok..i will notify you




sir, it's all same principle....we all copied from Jesus, Paul did, anybody who does is bound to have same result.



Jesus knew God was able at all times to supply His needs, that was same sonesis Paul had when he penned it down in Phillipians 4



Ever wondered why He keeps telling us "Do not worry"? Same thought Paul found out and asked us to be careful for NOTHING- Phillipians 4:6



can you please rephrase your above question?



Boasting sessions? Well in my church it isn't so.. if you say testimony session i can comprehend.



Read that book, or go back to chapter 1 i posted... it gave conditions for prosperity, it applies to all, not just preachers, the book of Isaiah says " if you be willing and obedient... you shall eat the good of the land"

looks to me that condition is open to all, not just preachers alone.

pickabeau1:
Rephrased

When did pastors start the wealth race from a point of needs being met

this question is quite vague... make it plain bro

Some give testimony of what God has done but u feel its like a boast

Don't see it as boasting... see it as a chance to challenge your spirit. There was a time Pastor Chris gave out $1 million as offering (168,000,000 NGN)
i did not see it as boasting, i said to my self "one day, i'd give more than that to the Lord" and i set my mind to it. That's my mindset, my mentality.
the other day, he gave a choir leader a brand new SUV, did i get angry? NO... Did i say He's showing off? NO... i said "one day, i'd be giving folks cars too"

simple.

Gombs:


this question is quite vague... make it plain bro


Don't see it as boasting... see it as a chance to challenge your spirit. There was a time Pastor Chris gave out $1 million as offering (168,000,000 NGN)
i did not see it as boasting, i said to my self "one day, i'd give more than that to the Lord" and i set my mind to it. That's my mindset, my mentality.
the other day, he gave a choir leader a brand new SUV, did i get angry? NO... Did i say He's showing off? NO... i said "one day, i'd be giving folks cars too"

simple.

OK...I can't make it more plain than it is....

I am saying the scriptures quoted and Jesus life showed faith to meet needs was the focus
How did we get to a point where the church is now a place of wealth and commerce and property grab.


Its a two fold question


Do you agree the church is there if yes

Then How?

Gombs:


Read that book, or go back to chapter 1 i posted... it gave conditions for prosperity, it applies to all, not just preachers, the book of Isaiah says " if you be willing and obedient... you shall eat the good of the land"
looks to me that condition is open to all, not just preachers alone.

After you go say you wan teach me. Not that I'm not teachable but by God's grace, I'm a student of the word under the Spirit of truth. This is exactly what happens when you copy men and panel beat scriptures. You're still using the OT to interpret the NT. Isaiah was talking about or remembering them of obedience TO THE LAW of Deuteronomy 28. Listen here...as regards that verse you quest. Obedient is required in the NT but it is NOT obedience that causes something to happen but obedience to what is already done in the finished works of Christ.

So you are saying, IN ORDER FOR ME TO EAT THE GOOD OF THE LAND, I HAVE TO OBEY but the NT says, in order for me to partake of what is already available, I have to believe AND BE OBEDIENT TO THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD. It is by His Obedience that everything I receive by believing or by faith happens, not by MY OWN OBEDIENCE to cause it to happen or to make me eat\partake of what is available.

Lemme go sleep. I will join this brainwashing thread if I can.....

pickabeau1:


OK...I can't make it more plain than it is....

I am saying the scriptures quoted and Jesus life showed faith to meet needs was the focus
How did we get to a point where the church is now a place of wealth and commerce and property grab.


Its a two fold question


Do you agree the church is there if yes

Then How?

The church of all places should be a place of wealth, for that's God's body. The bible said the Church is Jesus's bride... if the groom is rich, why should the bride be any different?

Gombs:


The church of all places should be a place of wealth, for that's God's body. The bible said the Church is Jesus's bride... if the groom is rich, why should the bride be any different?

OK...so basically there is nothing wrong..

All is fine and dandy

No problem....


Let's see what the book addresses then

Goshen360:


After you go say you wan teach me. Not that I'm not teachable but by God's grace, I'm a student of the word under the Spirit of truth. This is exactly what happens when you copy men and panel beat scriptures. You're still using the OT to interpret the NT. Isaiah was talking about or remembering them of obedience TO THE LAW of Deuteronomy 28. Listen here...as regards that verse you quest. Obedient is required in the NT but it is NOT obedience that causes something to happen but obedience to what is already done in the finished works of Christ.

So you are saying, IN ORDER FOR ME TO EAT THE GOOD OF THE LAND, I HAVE TO OBEY but the NT says, in order for me to partake of what is already available, I have to believe AND BE OBEDIENT TO THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD. It is by His Obedience that everything I receive by believing or by faith happens, not by MY OWN OBEDIENCE to cause it to happen or to make me eat\partake of what is available.

Lemme go sleep. I will join this brainwashing thread if I can.....

go and sleep jare... if them quote Isaiah Where he said by the Spirit "No weapon fashioned against you shall prosper..." you will immediately forget it's OT and scream AMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!

as for the bold, i can't help but marvel at your bible knowledge bankruptcy.. anyways, anyhow you wan see the obedience fine, but make sure you meet the two conditions... Be willing and (not or) Obedient.

make i go bath... work time don near reach! Say me hi to folk in America and your family members.

pickabeau1:


OK...so basically there is nothing wrong..

All is fine and dandy

No problem....


Let's see what the book addresses then

alright, be right back with chapter 6: for i obviously can't post all chapters (i for book more space o). Chapter 6 is above avoiding abuses and false practices.

see you in an hour and 30mins time

Gombs:



go and sleep jare... if them quote Isaiah Where he said by the Spirit "No weapon fashioned against you shall prosper..." you will immediately forget it's OT and scream AMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!

as for the bold, i can't help but marvel at your bible knowledge bankruptcy.. anyways, anyhow you wan see the obedience fine, but make sure you meet the two conditions... Be willing and (not or) Obedient.

make i go bath... work time don near reach! Say me hi to folk in America and your family members.

Abeg go siddon or wash that your a$$ joor......

How I go say Amen when where I siddon sef IN CHRIST, demons no fit fashion anything against me sef. My Amen will be to what he's done for me. In Christ, I'm complete.....how about that? My family go hear say you say hello sha.....stubborn boi

the reason why we are in this state today is because the pentecostal circle has taught the minister infallibility "the pastor cannot be wrong in what he teaches"

so when you question any teaching, you are then asked who are you to question such? what do you know? are you saying you know more than so and so?

when a ministers teaches wrong, people have a hard time believing its wrong, how could he be wrong, this man that has done great and mighty works(I have a video showing the great billy graham saying "JESUS ISNT THE ONLY WAY", A lot of folks will not dispute that simply because of the mans record, afterall when it comes to issue of altar call, i dont think anybody beats his record.

I didn't want to comment here but i'm forced to

[size=14pt]Was Jesus Homeless?[/size]
The Williams translation of verse 13 says, "But he left Nazareth and made His home in Capernaum. . . ." Wuest renders the same verse, "And having abandoned Nazareth . . . He established His permanent home in Capernaum. . . ."
Now look at Matthew 9:1. It says, "Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town" (NIV).
Williams translates this verse, "And He got into a boat and crossed to the other side, and went into His home town."
The Wuest version says, "And having gone on board the boat, he crossed over and entered his own city."
How does someone have his "own town," his "home town," and his "own city" unless he lives there? And how does he live there unless he has a place to live?
Mark 2:1 is also very interesting. It reads, "A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home" (NIV).
In the Williams version, the verse reads, "After some days He came back to Capernaum, and it was reported that He was at home."
wuest's translation says, "And having again entered Capernaum, after some days He was heard of as being at home."

Jesus couldn't "come home" or be reported as being "at home" if He didn't have a home.
The argument that Jesus didn't have a home cannot be used as proof of the poverty of Jesus because Scripture indicates that Jesus did indeed have a home.

the above quote is irrelevant, the scriptures never showed that the any of the prophets were homeless or didnt have a place of abode(whether its outright ownership or rent). whats important is that they had a place to sleep. if the disciples had houses, why will Jesus be homeless?

People who use this point to buttress that Jesus was rich because he had a house normally use it to describe ownership and not tenancy. Jesus was not a pauper, neither did he live a live of penury, he had his needs met supernaturally and for crying out loud he was a carpenter(so he wasnt without skill) BUT never did he for once live in OPULENCE as the present day church will want all christian to live in

As for this

How does someone have his "own town," his "home town," and his "own city" unless he lives there? And how does he live there unless he has a place to live?

people that live under the bridge can also say this, afterall should they travel and are returning to that town, the above is what they will say

pickabeau1:


OK...so basically there is nothing wrong..

All is fine and dandy

No problem....


Let's see what the book addresses then

Just get the ebook & study at your pace, rather than waiting for it piece by piece
below is the source link

vooks:
Here is Keneth Hagin's Midas Touch book, not sure of copyrights or not
http://www.ekklesia.lt/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Kenneth-E-Hagin-The-Midas-Touch.pdf

this is the link, the size is about 4.58mb

im studying at my pace whether downloaded or not

nannymcphee:


Just get the ebook & study at your pace, rather than waiting for it piece by piece
below is the source link



this is the link, the size is about 4.58mb

[size=14pt]Jesus Wore Nice Clothes[/size]

When Jesus was crucified, His clothes were nice enough that the soldiers divided them among themselves and gambled for His coat.

Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose
it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
—John 19:23,24

here again is a statement that people throw around without looking at the scripture, just because a minister said it.

the reason they gambled for his coat was in fulfillment of scriptures and not because of the quality of the clothes

Psalms 22:18


(AMP) They part my clothing among them and cast lots for my raiment (a long, shirtlike garment, a seamless undertunic). [John 19:23, 24.])

(ASV) They part my garments among them, And upon my vesture do they cast lots.

(CEV) They took my clothes and gambled for them.


(KJV+) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

(LITV) They divide My garments among them, and they made fall a lot for My clothing.

(YLT) They apportion my garments to themselves, And for my clothing they cause a lot to fall.

so whether or not the clothes were clean or dirty or stinking, they would have still casted lots and have it shared, SO THAT THE WORD OF GOD MIGHT BE FULFILLED

Would Roman soldiers cast lots for the tattered and torn rags of a beggar or the shabby, worn clothes of a poor man? No, of course not

As for the above, this word will come into play MEMORABILIA

1: things that are remarkable and worthy of remembrance
2: things that stir recollection or are valued or collected for their association with a particular field or interest

serial killers are known to do this and they dont pick that which is most expensive

besides what benefit will a shredded piece of quality designers cloth material of a condemned criminal be to a roman soldier?


bottom line: Jesus garment was torn and lots were casted for it, for the sole purpose of fulfilling scriptures

nannymcphee:
the reason why we are in this state today is because the pentecostal circle has taught the minister infallibility "the pastor cannot be wrong in what he teaches"

so when you question any teaching, you are then asked who are you to question such? what do you know? are you saying you know more than so and so?

when a ministers teaches wrong, people have a hard time believing its wrong, how could he be wrong, this man that has done great and mighty works(I have a video showing the great billy graham saying "JESUS ISNT THE ONLY WAY", A lot of folks will not dispute that simply because of the mans record, afterall when it comes to issue of altar call, i dont think anybody beats his record.

I didn't want to comment here but i'm forced to



the above quote is irrelevant, the scriptures never showed that the any of the prophets were homeless or didnt have a place of abode(whether its outright ownership or rent). whats important is that they had a place to sleep. if the disciples had houses, why will Jesus be homeless?

People who use this point to buttress that Jesus was rich because he had a house normally use it to describe ownership and not tenancy. Jesus was not a pauper, neither did he live a live of penury, he had his needs met supernaturally and for crying out loud he was a carpenter(so he wasnt without skill) BUT never did he for once live in OPULENCE as the present day church will want all christian to live in

As for this


people that live under the bridge can also say this, afterall should they travel and are returning to that town, the above is what they will say

Welcome
I don't need type a rebuttal...sit back and relax, while I finish this off

As for the coloured, me thinks you missed the latter part of the WAS JESUS RICH chapter, now be a sweetheart, go back, put your fingertips on your phone or laptop while reading, you'd notice the writer suggesting Jesus was NOT extravagant. Quit the carpentry crap! He left carpentry when his ministry started, show me where he made a table or chair during hid ministry time, and how Judas had so much in the bag, that embezzlement was easy!

nannymcphee:


here again is a statement that people throw around without looking at the scripture, just because a minister said it.

the reason they gambled for his coat was in fulfillment of scriptures and not because of the quality of the clothes

Psalms 22:18


(AMP) They part my clothing among them and cast lots for my raiment (a long, shirtlike garment, a seamless undertunic). [John 19:23, 24.])

(ASV) They part my garments among them, And upon my vesture do they cast lots.

(CEV) They took my clothes and gambled for them.


(KJV+) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

(LITV) They divide My garments among them, and they made fall a lot for My clothing.

(YLT) They apportion my garments to themselves, And for my clothing they cause a lot to fall.

so whether or not the clothes were clean or dirty or stinking, they would have still casted lots and have it shared, SO THAT THE WORD OF GOD MIGHT BE FULFILLED



As for the above, this word will come into play MEMORABILIA

1: things that are remarkable and worthy of remembrance
2: things that stir recollection or are valued or collected for their association with a particular field or interest

serial killers are known to do this and they dont pick that which is most expensive

besides what benefit will a shredded piece of quality designers cloth material of a condemned criminal be to a roman soldier?


bottom line: Jesus garment was torn and lots were casted for it, for the sole purpose of fulfilling scriptures

Fulfilling scriptures shey? The sole purpose? So if he wore rags, they'd have casted lots shey? For memorabilia? Serial killers shebi?

As for the above bold, can you please show me where they said the clothes were torn or shredded? I must have missed that place! I remember John the beloved writing They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whoseit shall be:

Are you also dyslexic or you want to twist scriptures for your ideology?

nannymcphee:


here again is a statement that people throw around without looking at the scripture, just because a minister said it.

the reason they gambled for his coat was in fulfillment of scriptures and not because of the quality of the clothes

Psalms 22:18


(AMP) They part my clothing among them and cast lots for my raiment (a long, shirtlike garment, a seamless undertunic). [John 19:23, 24.])

(ASV) They part my garments among them, And upon my vesture do they cast lots.

(CEV) They took my clothes and gambled for them.


(KJV+) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

(LITV) They divide My garments among them, and they made fall a lot for My clothing.

(YLT) They apportion my garments to themselves, And for my clothing they cause a lot to fall.

so whether or not the clothes were clean or dirty or stinking, they would have still casted lots and have it shared, SO THAT THE WORD OF GOD MIGHT BE FULFILLED



As for the above, this word will come into play MEMORABILIA

1: things that are remarkable and worthy of remembrance
2: things that stir recollection or are valued or collected for their association with a particular field or interest

serial killers are known to do this and they dont pick that which is most expensive

besides what benefit will a shredded piece of quality designers cloth material of a condemned criminal be to a roman soldier?


bottom line: Jesus garment was torn and lots were casted for it, for the sole purpose of fulfilling scriptures

Another thing that these WOF charlatans deliberately omit is that the garment Jesus wore to his crucifixion was not his own but a garment worn for him by Herrod to mock him as king of the jews.

Luke 23:11

11 Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in an elegant robe, they sent him back to Pilate.