Syncan:


I am dealing with at least three of you here, and you've been supporting each other, if there be truth in you, you would denounce any untruth by the other, but you allowed it, so when I use you, it's for all of you.

Thank you for drawing my attention to Pr.8:30 . Though you are trying to pick and chose to suit your interpretation, I will not bother to explain, but simply use scripture to confound you.

vs 27:When he established the heavens, I was there;when he drew a circle on the face of the deep.....God established(created by himself)
Vs 28:When he made firm the skies above,when he established the fountains of the deep,....God made firm(God making sure what he created is perfect)
Vs 29: When he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,......(God even marked out by himself)

Vs 30: then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight,rejoicing before him always...(I, like a chief apprentice was by him)

Who Established....God. Who made firm...God. Who assigned...God. Who marked out...God. Tell me again, did you say God said and Jesus went into action to make?

Jesus is God.

You expected his son to have said: "I did this, I did that"? Look at you!

He has said it all in verse 30 '...I was beside him like a master workman,...'

He knows all that were accomplished through him, were his father's accomplishment.

Since you believe what you read from verse 27-30, do you also believe the following verses?

22 [size=16pt]The LORD created me as the beginning of his works[/size], before his deeds of long ago.

25 before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—[size=16pt]I was born[/size], Pr. 8:22,25 NET

QUESTION: 1. WAS JESUS CREATED? 2. DOES PROVERBS 8:22 & 25 AGREE WITH COL. 1:15?

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col. 1:15 KJV

Syncan:



1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

God commanded the firmament, and the firmament obeyed. Where did he command Jesus and Jesus swung into action like you claim, to make the firmament divide the waters....Chai, watch tower go kill somebody o

I hope you have not forgotten what you were trying to proof. Now you have accepted that whatever God accomplishes THROUGH the things he created, is attributed to him as THE MAKER.

Scriptures tell us that God created everything THROUGH his son. In view of this, the almighty God, the father of Jesus Christ, is the maker of all things.

Syncan:


Please show me where i posted that you said so. I needed your opinion and i said you should be truthful about it, true or false ?

Oh you have already concluded that I am twisting the bible, while you are the one holding on to Jehova needing a proxy Jesus to create the world. When your jehova spoke, Jesus did what exactly for light to appear? I actually thought you sincerely want to learn, but It's now clear you've hardened up your heart to hold on to a lie. Take a look at the bold in yours and take a look at the bold below, God needed no helper to make anything.


Gen 1:6-7 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

The truth shall set you free.

Sir, I'm sorry , thought you where reffering to me as the origin of that statement. This brings about the question, who made the statement?are you the one that made the statement? Then its you that needs to state if its true or false first.
if the statement was not made by anyone, then there is no need for anyone to answer.




I've concluded cus you have so far up to the point of my typing and saving these post to answer questions that I've asked days ago.
If you think jesus is a proxy based on the bibles explanations , then its you against the bible.

Now ill use the bible to explain my belief , if you think that my understanding of the scriptures I'm about to explain on is wrong, pls quote the scriptures I explained on and give us ur own understanding .

1 corinthians 8:6

there is actually to us one
God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

New International Version
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord,
Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

King James Bible
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

International Standard Version
yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom everything came into being and for whom we live. And there is only one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, through whom everything came into being and through whom we live.

Weymouth New Testament
yet *we* have but one God, the Father, who is the source of all things and for whose service we exist, and but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom we and all things exist.


These verse helps me ( and I truthfully hope, u too) to understand creation better . That all things where created by the father through jesus Christ.

A vivid example is when we say "mr syncan built a house" . Yes Mr syncan built a house, but Mr syncan did not physicaly build the house, he built the house through the use of bricklayers and other artisans.
When the house is being constructed , we don't say the bricklayer is building a house, we say mr syncan is building a house, because the house belong to Mr syncan.
Same with when we say the govt is building a fed road and uses Julius Berger to build it.
After completion, the road Belong to the Govt, we dnt say the road belong to julius Berger, despite the fact that it was the company that built the road . The govt built the road through the company.

So we were created from God, for God ,through jesus.

John 1:2, 3 buttress these fact further by stating that all things apart from jesus where created through jesus , signifying that it was jehovah that created jesus, but used jesus to create every other thing.

Jehovah is fittingly and uniquely called “the Creator.”—Isa 40:28.
It is because of God’s will that all things “existed and were created.” (Re 4:11)

Jehovah’s first creation was his “only- begotten Son” (John 3:16), “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Re 3:14) This one, “the firstborn of all creation,” was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, “the things visible and the things invisible. ( Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah’s “master worker.” ( Pr 8:12, 22-31)

CANTICLES:
do u even read at all .... Psalmist has Jehovah the God of d jews in mind , and Christ himself calls d father the creator ! U think he is proud as u , Jesus Exclaim "he made them in the beginning " Mark 6:10 ! He didnt say " I create them in d beginning" !! Though used....Matthew 19:4-6 has d details !!!

Jesus himself was created by the Father ( Rev 3:14)

I don't even know which one is which again. Who is the creator of something, the one who made who made it, or the one who made it?

If you don't agree with what the others are saying let me know, so that I will isolate your own problem.

Bible says Jesus created all things....Jn1:3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Do you even understand the power in this statement?

Jesus said nothing of such as you suggested above, Please if you know the part of Mk 10:6 (which you misquoted as MK6:10) or the part of Matt 19:4-6 which in which Jesus said "the father created", let me know. All I see is God made them, and I have told you that Jesus is the second Person in that one Being called God. I have no problem with who created really, I can say Jesus created, I can say the Holy Spirit created, I can say the Father Created because I believe they are one God the creator. It is you who say that Jesus is a god that should be worried, If scripture says in Jn1:3 that Jesus made all things, does it mean that a god made all things? Or do I say, God made a god and the god made all things, therefore making God the secondary creator of all things?

Rev 3:14 you say...No need explaining what that is, just go back to genesis 1:1 and you'll see the first thing God created in the beginning. If God created something else before Heaven and earth, then Gen 1:1 cannot be the beginning. Decide carefully, it's a matter of grave importance.

Freksy:


You expected his son to have said: "I did this, I did that"? Look at you!

He has said it all in verse 30 '...I was beside him like a master workman,...'

He knows all that were accomplished through him, were his father's accomplishment.

Since you believe what you read from verse 27-30, do you also believe the following verses?

22 [size=16pt]The LORD created me as the beginning of his works[/size], before his deeds of long ago.

25 before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—[size=16pt]I was born[/size], Pr. 8:22,25 NET

QUESTION: 1. WAS JESUS CREATED? 2. DOES PROVERBS 8:22 & 25 AGREE WITH COL. 1:15?

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col. 1:15 KJV

No matter the height of the font used, it doesn't remove the fact that the word used in vs 22 is "kana" meaning "possessed", I don't want to go into long explanation, but you who claimed that psalm 45 was talking about Solomon, must have read in vs 8 this: I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. That proverb was talking about Wisdom, why do you say it is Jesus?

And for this firstborn that you're throwing around everywhere, see:

the firstborn of every creature. The description "first-born of all creation" speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10).

Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word "first-born" (Greek word "prototokos" ) signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient Near East, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership. Check out Jacob, Isaac, Ephraim.

Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ's sovereignty over creation. After resurrecting Jesus from the dead, God gave Him authority over the Earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus created the world, saved the world, and rules the world. He is the self-existent, acknowledged Head of creation.
Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: "I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Psalm 89:27).

Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.
Thus, the phrase "first-born of all creation" proclaims Christ’s preeminence. As the eternal Son of God, He created the universe. He is the Ruler of creation!

If you want to use firstborn really,then Firstborn of God is God, since firstborn of man is man.Jesus is God.

I am sure I have explained this before here, but no, you have hardened your heart.

dolphinheart:


Sir, I'm sorry , thought you where reffering to me as the origin of that statement. This brings about the question, who made the statement?are you the one that made the statement? Then its you that needs to state if its true or false first.
if the statement was not made by anyone, then there is no need for anyone to answer.

I've concluded cus you have so far up to the point of my typing and saving these post to answer questions that I've asked days ago.
If you think jesus is a proxy based on the bibles explanations , then its you against the bible.

Now ill use the bible to explain my belief , if you think that my understanding of the scriptures I'm about to explain on is wrong, pls quote the scriptures I explained on and give us ur own understanding .

1 corinthians 8:6

there is actually to us one
God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

New International Version
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord,
Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

King James Bible
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

International Standard Version
yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom everything came into being and for whom we live. And there is only one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, through whom everything came into being and through whom we live.

Weymouth New Testament
yet *we* have but one God, the Father, who is the source of all things and for whose service we exist, and but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom we and all things exist.


These verse helps me ( and I truthfully hope, u too) to understand creation better . That all things where created by the father through jesus Christ.

A vivid example is when we say "mr syncan built a house" . Yes Mr syncan built a house, but Mr syncan did not physicaly build the house, he built the house through the use of bricklayers and other artisans.
When the house is being constructed , we don't say the bricklayer is building a house, we say mr syncan is building a house, because the house belong to Mr syncan.
Same with when we say the govt is building a fed road and uses Julius Berger to build it.
After completion, the road Belong to the Govt, we dnt say the road belong to julius Berger, despite the fact that it was the company that built the road . The govt built the road through the company.

So we were created from God, for God ,through jesus.

John 1:2, 3 buttress these fact further by stating that all things apart from jesus where created through jesus , signifying that it was jehovah that created jesus, but used jesus to create every other thing.

Jehovah is fittingly and uniquely called “the Creator.”—Isa 40:28.
It is because of God’s will that all things “existed and were created.” (Re 4:11)

Jehovah’s first creation was his “only- begotten Son” (John 3:16), “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Re 3:14) This one, “the firstborn of all creation,” was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, “the things visible and the things invisible. ( Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah’s “master worker.” ( Pr 8:12, 22-31)

Oga, you see that thing I put in bold, there is no where it is written in the whole of scripture. Now see this one:

You say that "So we were created from God, for God ,through jesus"

Col 1:16: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:...Note that here scripture was talking about Jesus and said all things were created for Jesus, it means that even by your faulty analysis, Jesus is the owner, If all was made for God then Jesus is God

Wake up!

Ur definition of God sounds crazy and unbiblical
Imagine john 3:16 ! God sent his only begotten son ... Dats clear . But ur devilish logic will render it as: God the father, the son, the holyspirit sent his only begotten son !! ....... Is the son not the same person called only begotten son !!! God sent God ?? Such heresy wasnt written , its all human tradition to make God'word invalid !!!


All trinitarians know that the whole doctrine will sink deep into the sea if dey admit the fact written about Jesus in Rev 3:14 : " ( Jesus) is the beginning of the creation BY God" !!!

CANTICLES:
Ur definition of God sounds crazy and unbiblical
Imagine john 3:16 ! God sent his only begotten son ... Dats clear . But ur devilish logic will render it as: God the father, the son, the holyspirit sent his only begotten son !! ....... Is the son not the same person called only begotten son !!! God sent God ?? Such heresy wasnt written , its all human tradition to make God'word invalid !!!


All trinitarians know that the whole doctrine will sink deep into the sea if dey admit the fact written about Jesus in Rev 3:14 : " ( Jesus) is the beginning of the creation BY God" !!!

Really! Then you should go read your scripture. Heb 1:8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

First He calls His son God, then He Identifies His person as God (father), who Jesus has humbled himself to obey even unto death. Phil 2:8

Syncan:



Really! Then you should go read your scripture. Heb 1:8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

c'mon .... This scripture has first been applied to someone before Christ!! Did Jesus marry the daughter of tyre ?? Obviously not ! But the psalmist said d person did (psa 45:9) infact the song is about a beloved women whom a king admires(prologue to psalm 45) !!

First He calls His son God, then He Identifies His person as God (father), who Jesus has humbled himself to obey even unto death. Phil 2:8

there is one God the father .... And our lord Jesus will obey him till eternity !! 1cor 15:24-28 !! The son himself will also subject himself to THE ONE WHO subject all things to him !! Wow ...

Seriously christians are you guys still arguing over this? whether jesus is God or not.. how can you claim to teach the truth when you dont even know the fundamental truth behind ur faith.. nawa oooo... christians confused since 000AD.. . . ..

Syncan:



When you talk about entity you talk about "Substance and Accident" that make up the entity's nature as I have mentioned before.

humanity connotes all that is included in the definition of man, for it is by this that man is man, and it is this that humanity signifies, that, namely, whereby man is man. Now individual matter, with all the individualizing accidents, is not included in the definition of the species.For this particular flesh, these bones, this blackness or whiteness, etc., are not included in the definition of a man. Therefore this flesh, these bones, and the accidental qualities distinguishing this particular matter, are not included in humanity; and yet they are included in the thing which is man.

Substance:
God is the same as His essence or nature, that is God is God by nature....The father is Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, without beginning. Same goes for the son (the word), same goes for the Holy spirit. They have every attribute of God, they are God by nature.
St. John's testimony is yet more explicit than that of the others. He expressly asserts that the very purpose of his Gospel is to establish the Divinity of Jesus Christ (John 20:31). In the prologue he identifies Him with the Word, the only-begotten of the Father, Who from all eternity exists with God, Who is God (John 1:1-18). The immanence of the Son in the Father and of the Father in the Son is declared in Christ's words to St. Philip: "Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (14:10), and in other passages no less explicit (14:7; 16:15; 17:21). The oneness of Their power and Their action is affirmed: "Whatever he [the Father] does, the Son also does in like manner" (5:19, cf. 10:38); and to the Son no less than to the Father belongs the Divine attribute of conferring life on whom He will (5:21). In 10:29, Christ expressly teaches His unity of essence with the Father: "That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all . . . I and the Father are one." The words, "That which my Father hath given me," can, having regard to the context, have no other meaning than the Divine Name, possessed in its fullness by the Son as by the Father.

Accidents
Go back to list of accidents, there is no accident in God. God is a simple entity.

I had earlier shown you, using the five rules, how Divine essence (God) is not a person. However, there are three persons that possess the attributes of God, yet God can only be one, hence these three persons are one God. It then means that as persons, they can interact with one another distinctly, yet as God be everywhere (omnipresent).

I asked the question :
10) does jesus have the same entity as the father, are they one and the same?
(b)can jesus and the father be in the same place and same as two different spirit creatures interacting with each other?
11) if they are equal , is possible for them to exchange roles ?


True to how I thought u will reply, u did not seperate ur answers based on the numberings, and you fused human analogy and teachings about God to try and explain ur beliefs . I for one will stick to the bible.

You stated:

"God is the same as His essence or nature, that is God is God by nature....The father is
Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, without beginning. Same goes for the son (the word), same goes for the Holy spirit.
They have every attribute of God, they are God by nature."

The bibles says
God is God not by nature

A)God has a name: deut 6:4.

American Standard Version
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:

Darby Bible Translation
Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;

World English Bible
Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one:

Young's Literal Translation
Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;

B)He is living , God is a living God:2 cor 6:16

King James Bible
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people

Jer 10:10

King James Bible
But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

American Standard Version
But Jehovah is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth trembleth, and the nations are not able to abide his indignation.

World English Bible
But Yahweh is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth trembles, and the nations are not able to withstand his indignation.

Pls note : u have stated that jesus is not the father.
The bible tells us that the true God is the father
The bible tells us the true God is jehovah .
Hence the bible is true in stating that the father is jehovah who is the true god .
Therefore jesus is not the true God.

C)God is a spirit: John 4: 24

King James 2000 Bible
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

2 cor 3: 17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the
Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


D)God has a name , he is living and is a person , he has presence, :acts 3:19

King James Bible
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from
the presence of the Lord;
,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Repent therefore and be converted, so that your sins will be blotted out, and the
times of rest from before the face of THE LORD JEHOVAH will come to you.”

Heb 9 : 24

For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself,
now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

Note also : Christ is to appear in the presence (before)God.

E)The reason God is God is because of his creatorship, not nature: rev 4: 11.

King James Bible
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure
they are and were created.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Our Lord and God, You are worthy to receive glory and honor and power, because You have created all things, and
because of Your will they exist and were created .

Pls note :Anything that is worshiped can be termed a god, inasmuch as the worshiper attributes to it might greater than his own and
venerates it. A person can even let his belly be a god. ( Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) The Bible
makes mention of many gods (Ps 86:8; 1Co 8:5, 6), but it shows that the gods of the
nations are valuelesss.—Ps 96:5.

Therefore , God is our God cus we accept that he created us and he is good for us to worship.



F)Everywhere there is a testimony of the works of his hands Ps 19:1)



To be continued .........

Syncan:



When you talk about entity you talk about "Substance and Accident" that make up the entity's nature as I have mentioned before.

humanity connotes all that is included in the definition of man, for it is by this that man is man, and it is this that humanity signifies, that, namely, whereby man is man. Now individual matter, with all the individualizing accidents, is not included in the definition of the species.For this particular flesh, these bones, this blackness or whiteness, etc., are not included in the definition of a man. Therefore this flesh, these bones, and the accidental qualities distinguishing this particular matter, are not included in humanity; and yet they are included in the thing which is man.

Substance:
God is the same as His essence or nature, that is God is God by nature....The father is Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, without beginning. Same goes for the son (the word), same goes for the Holy spirit. They have every attribute of God, they are God by nature.
St. John's testimony is yet more explicit than that of the others. He expressly asserts that the very purpose of his Gospel is to establish the Divinity of Jesus Christ (John 20:31). In the prologue he identifies Him with the Word, the only-begotten of the Father, Who from all eternity exists with God, Who is God (John 1:1-18). The immanence of the Son in the Father and of the Father in the Son is declared in Christ's words to St. Philip: "Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (14:10), and in other passages no less explicit (14:7; 16:15; 17:21). The oneness of Their power and Their action is affirmed: "Whatever he [the Father] does, the Son also does in like manner" (5:19, cf. 10:38); and to the Son no less than to the Father belongs the Divine attribute of conferring life on whom He will (5:21). In 10:29, Christ expressly teaches His unity of essence with the Father: "That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all . . . I and the Father are one." The words, "That which my Father hath given me," can, having regard to the context, have no other meaning than the Divine Name, possessed in its fullness by the Son as by the Father.

Accidents
Go back to list of accidents, there is no accident in God. God is a simple entity.

I had earlier shown you, using the five rules, how Divine essence (God) is not a person. However, there are three persons that possess the attributes of God, yet God can only be one, hence these three persons are one God. It then means that as persons, they can interact with one another distinctly, yet as God be everywhere (omnipresent).

Continued ..........




G) The true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location where he dwells , reside. :
1Ki 8:49;
John 16:28;
Heb 9:24).

His throne is also there in heaven :
Isa 66:1

All things are naked and
openly exposed to the eyes of him,and he
is the One telling from the beginning the
finale.
Heb 4:13;
Isa 46:10, 11;
1Sa 2:3
His power and knowledge extend everywhere, reaching every part of the universe.— 2Ch 16:9;
Ps 139:7-12;
Am 9:2-4.

H)Jehovah God is described in the Bible as living from time indefinite to time indefinite,
forever :
Ps 90:2, 4;
Re 10:6
Pls note :Jesus died!



YoU stated :
St. John's testimony is yet more explicit than that of the others. He expressly asserts that the very purpose of his Gospel is to establish the Divinity of Jesus Christ (John 20:31).

I)The bible says: John 20: 31

King James Bible
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

There jesus is showing that the father is superior , that he was sent by God .

U stated:
In the prologue he identifies Him with the Word, the only-begotten of the Father, Who from all eternity exists with God, Who is God (John 1:1-18).


J)The bible says jesus is not the father, the father is the only true God, worship the only true God, therefore, worship the father.
(John 1:1 is a discussion for another day )

U stated:

The immanence of the Son in the Father and of the Father in the Son is declared in Christ's
words to St. Philip: "Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in
Me?" (14:10), and in other passages no less explicit (14:7; 16:15; 17:21).

What book of the bible?

K) Bible says
Jesus said : the father is greater than I am
Jesus said : the father sent me
jesus said: I do not my will, but the will of he that sent him
Jesus said : let not my will be done , but Gods will

Jesus said : I'm going back to God , my God and ur God.

If we do Gods will , we will become jesus brothers, but jehovahs sons .


U stated:
oneness of Their power and Their action is affirmed: "Whatever he [the Father] does, the Son also does in like manner" (5:19, cf. 10:38);


L)Bible says;
The son does not do anything of his own initiative , but what he behelds the father doing(paraphrased). This is not equal authority , but jesus loyalty in conforming to the fathers ways, just as we are also encouraged to do.

No where in the bible will u hear God following jesus ways, or jesus sending God anywhere.

U stated:

and to the Son no less than to the Father belongs the Divine attribute of conferring life on whom He will (5:21).

M)Bible says
“Not by bread alone does man live but by every expression of Jehovah’s mouth does man live.” ( De 8:3)
Jesus Christ repeated this statement and also said: “My food is for me to do the will of
him that sent me and to finish his work.”
Joh 4:34;
Mt 4:4
On another occasion he declared: “Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me.”— John 6: 57

These shows that life is from God and we receive it through jesus Christ .

U stated:
10:29, Christ expressly teaches His unity of
essence with the Father: "That which my
Father hath given me, is greater than all . . .
I and the Father are one." The words, "That
which my Father hath given me," can,
having regard to the context, have no other
meaning than the Divine Name, possessed
in its fullness by the Son as by the Father.

N)Well u said it , every one can see :the father gave him , he did not have it initialy.

Continuation.....
U have still not answered question 1 too9 and 11

Syncan:



Oga, you see that thing I put in bold, there is no where it is written in the whole of scripture. Now see this one:

You say that "So we were created from God, for God ,through jesus"

Col 1:16: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:...Note that here scripture was talking about Jesus and said all things were created for Jesus, it means that even by your faulty analysis, Jesus is the owner, If all was made for God then Jesus is God

Wake up!

Sir
John 1: 3
Holman Christian Standard Bible
All things were created through Him, and
apart from Him not one thing was created
that has been created.

International Standard Version
Through him all things were made, and
apart from him nothing was made that has
been made.
Does these verse not butress my initial state that all things where made through jesus? After jesus has been created by God
I've noticed something about how U discuss. U take a verse or statement some one quoted, u start talking about it without expaining the verse before u jump to another. And u try asmuch as possible to evade other verses qouted in the same post .pls comment on all the verses quoted in the post .

dolphinheart:


Sir
John 1: 3
Holman Christian Standard Bible
All things were created through Him, and
apart from Him not one thing was created
that has been created.

International Standard Version
Through him all things were made, and
apart from him nothing was made that has
been made.
Does these verse not butress my initial state that all things where made through jesus? After jesus has been created by God
I've noticed something about how U discuss. U take a verse or statement some one quoted, u start talking about it without expaining the verse before u jump to another. And u try asmuch as possible to evade other verses qouted in the same post .pls comment on all the verses quoted in the post .

KJV... All things were made by him.

I believe each member of the Godhead possess special attribute or features which enable them to be called God e.g omnipotent, omnipresent etc. Members of the Godhead are regarded as one, in the sense that they are united in purpose. Whatever one wills to do is what the other wants. Equal in purpose but in power and might Christ made it clear when he said "The father is greater than I".... Heb 1:8. We saw how God the father called Jesus, the son God. A father who is a God called the son God. A little bit of reasoning will have it that the son possesses the attributes, features that qualifies as God. I believe that's why the bible says and the word was God. God The Father, God The Son and God the Holy spirit are one in the sense that they have unity of purpose. Just as a man married to a woman although they are two separate persons are one. For this reason shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. I believe there is kinda connection between members of the Godhead that we humans cannot fully comprehend. Our mind is too small. Let's leave what is to be. Heb 1:8 made me agree with syncan that JESUS IS GOD.

Syncan:




No matter the height of the font used, it doesn't remove the fact that the word used in vs 22 is "kana" meaning "possessed", I don't want to go into long explanation,

So your almighty God is a possession. How then would you describe his possessor, as a mighty God?

but you who claimed that psalm 45 was talking about Solomon, must have read in vs 8 this: I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. That proverb was talking about Wisdom, why do you say it is Jesus?

The verses you quoted excitedly in your previous post as proof of Jesus’ almightiness were talking about who?

And for this firstborn that you're throwing around everywhere, see:

the firstborn of every creature. The description "first-born of all creation" speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10).

Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word "first-born" (Greek word "prototokos" ) signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient Near East, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership. Check out Jacob, Isaac, Ephraim.

Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ's sovereignty over creation. After resurrecting Jesus from the dead, God gave Him authority over the Earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus created the world, saved the world, and rules the world. He is the self-existent, acknowledged Head of creation.
Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: "I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Psalm 89:27).

Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.
Thus, the phrase "first-born of all creation" proclaims Christ’s preeminence. As the eternal Son of God, He created the universe. He is the Ruler of creation!

…. These passages declare the preexistence … yes, he preexisted even the mountains and hills

25 before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—I was born, Pr. 8:22 NET

If you want to use firstborn really,then Firstborn of God is God, since firstborn of man is man.Jesus is God.

There is no big deal about that, but you accepting the facts that go with it. For example:
If a man begets another man, who’ll be the head? Similarly, if a God begets another God, who’ll be the head?

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1Cor 11:3 KJV

The almighty God existed before Jesus; Jesus existed before the man; and man existed before the woman.

QUESTION: In the above hierarchy of headship provided by apostle Paul, tell me the part that is true and the part YOU THINK is false?

I am sure I have explained this before here, but no, you have hardened your heart.

Who made the following statements and what other words could have been used for you to accept that Jesus was created?

22 The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. Pr. 8:22 NET

25 before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—I was born, Pr. 8:22 NET

Truly, whose heart is hardened against overwhelming evidences of Jesus’ subordinate position to his father?

dolphinheart:


A vivid example is when we say "mr syncan built a house" . Yes Mr syncan built a house, but Mr syncan did not physicaly build the house, he built the house through the use of bricklayers and other artisans.
When the house is being constructed , we don't say the bricklayer is building a house, we say mr syncan is building a house, because the house belong to Mr syncan.
Same with when we say the govt is building a fed road and uses Julius Berger to build it.
After completion, the road Belong to the Govt, we dnt say the road belong to julius Berger, despite the fact that it was the company that built the road . The govt built the road through the company.

So we were created from God, for God ,through jesus.

John 1:2, 3 buttress these fact further by stating that all things apart from jesus where created through jesus , signifying that it was jehovah that created jesus, but used jesus to create every other thing.

Jehovah is fittingly and uniquely called “the Creator.”—Isa 40:28.
It is because of God’s will that all things “existed and were created.” (Re 4:11)

Let me first of all start by showing you the foolishness in your analogy. Now let me change house or road to something simple...Chair.

According to you:

Supposing dolphinheart heart tells fresky to make a chair, when some people (canticle and captivator) come along, and see fresky working, they ask "what are you doing", does fresky say "dolphinheart is making a chair? No. He says "I am making a chair". When he finishes making the chair, he displays it in his workshop; when people(Rjasan and zyzxx) pass by, they admire it saying "who made this chair"? What will be the answer? Fresky made this chair surely. Now the chair is now in dolphineheart's house the one who owns the chair, he gets some visitors(vest, francistony and Italo) who admires the chair, when they ask "who made this chair? will dolphineheart say " I made it" or will he say "fresky made it".
Even if dolphineheart taught fresky the work or gave birth to fresky, when we come to who made the chair, it will always boil down to fresky and not dolphineheart. Who did fresky make the chair for, he made the chair for dolphineheart. This is completely opposite what the scripture teaches. For even though you try to explain that dolphineheart made the chair through fresky, when we talk of made/create, we know exactly what it means, the primary maker is the one who we mean, every other time we use make without meaning the primary maker, we are only implying something else like "own", or "authorise" et.c. If then the primary creator of the chair is fresky, who will the glory and admiration from the people go to?

According to scripture

1) In Gen1:3. God created the heaven and the earth.... If God had created a god first, where was he? because he has to exist on something outside God. God is the only thing that exists on himself. And why did the scripture not say, a god that God created, created heaven and earth? That would have been the truth.

2) In Jn1:10. He(Jesus) was in the world, and the[b] world was made by him[/b], and the world knew him not...Clearly without mincing words, scripture says that Jesus made the world. Is Jn1:10 contradicting Gen1:1? No. it cannot. But by your analogy, it contradicts completely, for one would be saying "God made the world" while the other says "a god made the world"

3) In Col1:16. all things were created by him, and for him......Scripture is clear here that all things were created by Jesus, and for Jesus. However your analogy shows that a god created all things, and for God. Why you try to make scripture lie is what I don't know.

4) Prov 16:4. The LORD hath made all things for himself...You can put (Yahweh/God) in place of "The LORD" and see what it says, that God has made all things for himself. But you say, "a god has made all things for God".

I can go on and on about the absurdity of what you preach, yet you harden your heart to truth. I can give my own analogy of what I mean, We can see that yours contradicts scripture, and even suggests that scripture contradicts itself.

CAPTIVATOR:
c'mon .... This scripture has first been applied to someone before Christ!! Did Jesus marry the daughter of tyre ?? Obviously not ! But the psalmist said d person did (psa 45:9) infact the song is about a beloved women whom a king admires(prologue to psalm 45) !!

there is one God the father .... And our lord Jesus will obey him till eternity !! 1cor 15:24-28 !! The son himself will also subject himself to THE ONE WHO subject all things to him !! Wow ...

O yeah? You didn't read about the wedding of the lamb? Is Jesus not a king? Whose kingship lasts forever? (vs 6).Which king do you have in mind that hate iniquity and loves righteousness; whom God has anointed? (vs 7). I have made this clear before, but you are so blinded by hard hardheartedness and deceit to note it.

Jesus Is God.God said that Jesus is God, scripture bore witness that Jesus is God. ( Heb1:8, Ps 45:6, Jn1:1)

dolphinheart:


Sir
John 1: 3
Holman Christian Standard Bible
All things were created through Him, and
apart from Him not one thing was created
that has been created.

International Standard Version
Through him all things were made, and
apart from him nothing was made that has
been made.
Does these verse not butress my initial state that all things where made through jesus? After jesus has been created by God
I've noticed something about how U discuss. U take a verse or statement some one quoted, u start talking about it without expaining the verse before u jump to another. And u try asmuch as possible to evade other verses qouted in the same post .pls comment on all the verses quoted in the post .

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He was in the world, and the world existed by his hand, and the world knew him not.

New Living Translation
He came into the very world he created, but the world didn't recognize him.

English Standard Version
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

New American Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

King James Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not recognize Him.

NET Bible
He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He was in the world, and the world existed by his hand, and the world knew him not.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him. Yet, the world didn't recognize him.

Jubilee Bible 2000
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

King James 2000 Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

American King James Version
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


Douay-Rheims Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


What else should I say about this....They all say Jesus created the world, We know from genesis that God created the world, then Jesus is God.

dolphinheart:
Continuation.....
U have still not answered question 1 too9 and 11

You've shown that your hardheartedness is clogging your understanding, If I may decide to open a thread for it, I may decide to continue here, I may decide not to respond, I will do as it pleases me, for I requested sincerity from you, but obviously you are not. I shall refer you to scripture about what Jesus did to someone like you.

Lk 23:9. Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.

Syncan:



O yeah? You didn't read about the wedding of the lamb? Is Jesus not a king? Whose kingship lasts forever? (vs 6).Which king do you have in mind that hate iniquity and loves righteousness; whom God has anointed? (vs 7). I have made this clear before, but you are so blinded by hard hardheartedness and deceit to note it.

Jesus Is God.God said that Jesus is God, scripture bore witness that Jesus is God. ( Heb1:8, Ps 45:6, Jn1:1)

complete it na ..... The lamb get married to the daughter of tyre !!! The rendering of ur KJV is biased , and the fact that someone is called " God" doesnt make him Equal to the " ONE GOD, THE FATHER" !! The one God is composed of Only the father !! 1cor 8:5,6 ... I hear a barcelona fan say lionel messi and cristiano ronaldo are " Gods" !! talent

Let me get one point cleared: U And I are part of creation BY God .. Though not d beginning !!! Bible states plainly that Jesus is d beginning of CREATION by God ?? Yes / No

Freksy:


So your almighty God is a possession. How then would you describe his possessor, as a mighty God?

The verses you quoted excitedly in your previous post as proof of Jesus’ almightiness were talking about who?

…. These passages declare the preexistence … yes, he preexisted even the mountains and hills

25 before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—I was born, Pr. 8:22 NET

There is no big deal about that, but you accepting the facts that go with it. For example:
If a man begets another man, who’ll be the head? Similarly, if a God begets another God, who’ll be the head?

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1Cor 11:3 KJV

The almighty God existed before Jesus; Jesus existed before the man; and man existed before the woman.

QUESTION: In the above hierarchy of headship provided by apostle Paul, tell me the part that is true and the part YOU THINK is false?

Who made the following statements and what other words could have been used for you to accept that Jesus was created?

22 The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. Pr. 8:22 NET

25 before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—I was born, Pr. 8:22 NET

Truly, whose heart is hardened against overwhelming evidences of Jesus’ subordinate position to his father?

Lol, is it only the hills and mountains he pre-existed, what about the heaven and the earth? If he pre-existed heaven and earth, where was he?
If he was outside of God, ie a god, then something was made before him, on which he mas made. Is this so? When you guys calm down and listen I will teach you.

Jesus subordinate position to the father...I agree with this as long as it is in relation to their persons (ie the father begat the son), but they are one God and hence equal. Jesus did not hold on that equality, he humbled himself to save man...Phil 2:6.

CANTICLES:
complete it na ..... The lamb get married to the daughter of tyre !!! The rendering of ur KJV is biased , and the fact that someone is called " God" doesnt make him Equal to the " ONE GOD, THE FATHER" !! The one God is composed of Only the father !! 1cor 8:5,6 ... I hear a barcelona fan say lionel messi and cristiano ronaldo are " Gods" !! talent

Let me get one point cleared: U And I are part of creation BY God .. Though not d beginning !!! Bible states plainly that Jesus is d beginning of CREATION by God ?? Yes / No

I have handled this question before, please read and be enlightened.

Syncan:



Lol, is it only the hills and mountains he pre-existed, what about the heaven and the earth? If he pre-existed heaven and earth, where was he?

What do you know about heaven and earth?

If he was outside of God, ie a god, then something was made before him, on which he mas made. Is this so? When you guys calm down and listen I will teach you.

STOP MAKING NOISE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER.

Jesus subordinate position to the father...I agree with this as long as it is in relation to their persons (ie the father begat the son), but they are one God and hence equal. Jesus did not hold on that equality, he humbled himself to save man...Phil 2:6.

After saving man he went back to heaven and was highly rewarded by someone greater than him for mission well accomplished. In the heaven he is still in a subordinate position to his father. Where do you think he was when apostle Paul was inspired to write the following:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1Cor 11:3 KJV
The almighty God existed before his son, Jesus; Jesus existed before the man; and man existed before the woman.

[size=16pt]QUESTION[/size]: In the above hierarchy of headship provided by apostle Paul, tell me the part that is true and the part YOU THINK is false?

Rjasan:
KJV... All things were made by him.

Sir , no be me say all things where made through him ! Na d bible talk am .comment on that first .

Syncan:


Let me first of all start by showing you the foolishness in your analogy. Now let me change house or road to something simple...Chair.

According to you:

Supposing dolphinheart heart tells fresky to make a chair, when some people (canticle and captivator) come along, and see fresky working, they ask "what are you doing", does fresky say "dolphinheart is making a chair? No. He says "I am making a chair". When he finishes making the chair, he displays it in his workshop; when people(Rjasan and zyzxx) pass by, they admire it saying "who made this chair"? What will be the answer? Fresky made this chair surely. Now the chair is now in dolphineheart's house the one who owns the chair, he gets some visitors(vest, francistony and Italo) who admires the chair, when they ask "who made this chair? will dolphineheart say " I made it" or will he say "fresky made it".
Even if dolphineheart taught fresky the work or gave birth to fresky, when we come to who made the chair, it will always boil down to fresky and not dolphineheart. Who did fresky make the chair for, he made the chair for dolphineheart. This is completely opposite what the scripture teaches. For even though you try to explain that dolphineheart made the chair through fresky, when we talk of made/create, we know exactly what it means, the primary maker is the one who we mean, every other time we use make without meaning the primary maker, we are only implying something else like "own", or "authorise" et.c. If then the primary creator of the chair is fresky, who will the glory and admiration from the people go to?

According to scripture

1) In Gen1:3. God created the heaven and the earth.... If God had created a god first, where was he? because he has to exist on something outside God. God is the only thing that exists on himself. And why did the scripture not say, a god that God created, created heaven and earth? That would have been the truth.

2) In Jn1:10. He(Jesus) was in the world, and the[b] world was made by him[/b], and the world knew him not...Clearly without mincing words, scripture says that Jesus made the world. Is Jn1:10 contradicting Gen1:1? No. it cannot. But by your analogy, it contradicts completely, for one would be saying "God made the world" while the other says "a god made the world"

3) In Col1:16. all things were created by him, and for him......Scripture is clear here that all things were created by Jesus, and for Jesus. However your analogy shows that a god created all things, and for God. Why you try to make scripture lie is what I don't know.

4) Prov 16:4. The LORD hath made all things for himself...You can put (Yahweh/God) in place of "The LORD" and see what it says, that God has made all things for himself. But you say, "a god has made all things for God".

I can go on and on about the absurdity of what you preach, yet you harden your heart to truth. I can give my own analogy of what I mean, We can see that yours contradicts scripture, and even suggests that scripture contradicts itself.

Syncan, na you go visit coconut head!

*Just kidding.

Freksy:


What do you know about heaven and earth?



STOP MAKING NOISE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER.



After saving man he went back to heaven and was highly rewarded by someone greater than him for mission well accomplished. In the heaven he is still in a subordinate position to his father. Where do you think he was when apostle Paul was inspired to write the following:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1Cor 11:3 KJV
The almighty God existed before his son, Jesus; Jesus existed before the man; and man existed before the woman.

[size=16pt]QUESTION[/size]: In the above hierarchy of headship provided by apostle Paul, tell me the part that is true and the part YOU THINK is false?

I suppose not to answer u, but I will. we are hear to learn and knw d truth.
1. What consine us wit d hierarchy in heaven? y are we bothering ourself, y do we leave our salvation to follow wrong path? The bible as said it all
Kjv
"Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions." (Ecclesiastes 7:29).

Nlt
"But I did find this: God created people to be virtuous, but they have each turned to follow their own downward path."" (Ecclesiastes 7:29).

bible stated it clearly dat " jesus is d way truth and life, and no 1 comes to the father except through me... jesus said again
"Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. " (John 14:11).
Why do u want to separate what is inseparable (trinity )?
note dis, jesus said God as choice to reveal dis to d children and d illiterate and he leave does dat are too wise on there own. Do u knw Y? Is because of dey knw d truth but think it impossible and dat thru wit human reason it impossible( we are no different from dem if we interpret thing sprit wit human wisdom ) but wit God all things are possible,
a word is enough for d wise.

Syncan:


I have handled this question before, please read and be enlightened.

bro u really amaze Me,, and I can't thank God enough for d wisdom he as bestow on u...
More wisdom sir,
I pray we will never miss heaven in jesus name amen.

Rjasan:
I believe each member of the Godhead possess special attribute or features which enable them to be called God e.g omnipotent, omnipresent etc. Members of the Godhead are regarded as one, in the sense that they are united in purpose. Whatever one wills to do is what the other wants. Equal in purpose but in power and might Christ made it clear when he said "The father is greater than I".... Heb 1:8. We saw how God the father called Jesus, the son God. A father who is a God called the son God. A little bit of reasoning will have it that the son possesses the attributes, features that qualifies as God. I believe that's why the bible says and the word was God. God The Father, God The Son and God the Holy spirit are one in the sense that they have unity of purpose. Just as a man married to a woman although they are two separate persons are one. For this reason shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. I believe there is kinda connection between members of the Godhead that we humans cannot fully comprehend. Our mind is too small. Let's leave what is to be. Heb 1:8 made me agree with syncan that JESUS IS GOD.

Sir, jesus omnipresent, pls state where the bible said that?, and I dnt want derived analogy
So now , the true god is made up of members?
Yes, jesus , the Holy spirit are united with the father because they are loyal to the father, they do jehovahs will and not their will. They wunt do what the father tells them not to do.
When jesus was about to die, his will was for the cup to pass away, but he did not do his will, but the will of the father, hence the loyalty, hence the reason he was rewarded by the father.
If a man marries a woman and the woman refuses his headship, they are not one.there unity in purpose is based on loyalty.

Are u saying they are not equal in power and might? Then I say you are a truthful man for not believing in trinity.

Sir, Jesus is a god, jesus is a mighty god, but jesus is not the almighty god , the phrase almighty have never been used when reffering to jesus, it has only been used in refference to the father, jehovah. J jesus is not the father.

Syncan:


Let me first of all start by showing you the foolishness in your analogy. Now let me change house or road to something simple...Chair.

According to you:

Supposing dolphinheart heart tells fresky to make a chair, when some people (canticle and captivator) come along, and see fresky working, they ask "what are you doing", does fresky say "dolphinheart is making a chair? No. He says "I am making a chair". When he finishes making the chair, he displays it in his workshop; when people(Rjasan and zyzxx) pass by, they admire it saying "who made this chair"? What will be the answer? Fresky made this chair surely. Now the chair is now in dolphineheart's house the one who owns the chair, he gets some visitors(vest, francistony and Italo) who admires the chair, when they ask "who made this chair? will dolphineheart say " I made it" or will he say "fresky made it".
Even if dolphineheart taught fresky the work or gave birth to fresky, when we come to who made the chair, it will always boil down to fresky and not dolphineheart. Who did fresky make the chair for, he made the chair for dolphineheart. This is completely opposite what the scripture teaches. For even though you try to explain that dolphineheart made the chair through fresky, when we talk of made/create, we know exactly what it means, the primary maker is the one who we mean, every other time we use make without meaning the primary maker, we are only implying something else like "own", or "authorise" et.c. If then the primary creator of the chair is fresky, who will the glory and admiration from the people go to?

According to scripture

1) In Gen1:3. God created the heaven and the earth.... If God had created a god first, where was he? because he has to exist on something outside God. God is the only thing that exists on himself. And why did the scripture not say, a god that God created, created heaven and earth? That would have been the truth.

2) In Jn1:10. He(Jesus) was in the world, and the[b] world was made by him[/b], and the world knew him not...Clearly without mincing words, scripture says that Jesus made the world. Is Jn1:10 contradicting Gen1:1? No. it cannot. But by your analogy, it contradicts completely, for one would be saying "God made the world" while the other says "a god made the world"

3) In Col1:16. all things were created by him, and for him......Scripture is clear here that all things were created by Jesus, and for Jesus. However your analogy shows that a god created all things, and for God. Why you try to make scripture lie is what I don't know.

4) Prov 16:4. The LORD hath made all things for himself...You can put (Yahweh/God) in place of "The LORD" and see what it says, that God has made all things for himself. But you say, "a god has made all things for God".

I can go on and on about the absurdity of what you preach, yet you harden your heart to truth. I can give my own analogy of what I mean, We can see that yours contradicts scripture, and even suggests that scripture contradicts itself.

( I've made a post in response to this but I do not think it was uploaded , hence ill try to rephrase what I tried posting earlier)

Sir , in response to your statement and analogy, I wunt use the word folishness like you did, but I will use the word "mischievous" and "wrong"
1) u have tried to change the whole concept of my analogy in trying to prove my example wrong . Which is fraudulent.
2) ur story line is different from mine and also different from creation.

A) there was no one to ask any question when creation started. Any one that could ask was part of creation. So ur analogy is wrong .
B ) when the creation started , it was not showcased to anyone , but rather was used by the creator. Therefore no one can ask the questions u are using to prove my analogy as false.
C) ur analogy is wrong cus ur repeatedly equate make to mean create.

Now on the scripture.
When God created jesus, jesus was always beside his father, loyaly learning from him, being his master worker.


1)The scriptures has shown us that jehovah is the creator of the heavens and earth.

2)The scriptures has also shown that the heavens and earth was created by Jesus, and in some cases through jesus.
3) The scripture has shown that jesus is not jehovah, the father.

To understand 1,2 and 3 above the scripture them shows us what it means by both being part of creation by putting both of them in refference to creation in one verse and explaining the role both played in creation, no translation of that verse ever said they did the same thing in terms of creation.
Jesus, being humble and loyal to jehovah , went further to explain who he was and what he did during creation.

You have so far refused to quote and explain these two verses, rather you jump to other verses that you think explain ur view.

If we take the facts the way u explained the scriptures u posted above . It would mean the following
1)jesus is the creator of heaven and earth
2)jehovah/yaweh/ father is creator of heaven and earth
3) jesus Is the father/jehovah/ yaweh.

Syncan:



Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He was in the world, and the world existed by his hand, and the world knew him not.

New Living Translation
He came into the very world he created, but the world didn't recognize him.

English Standard Version
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

New American Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

King James Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not recognize Him.

NET Bible
He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He was in the world, and the world existed by his hand, and the world knew him not.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him. Yet, the world didn't recognize him.

Jubilee Bible 2000
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

King James 2000 Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

American King James Version
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


Douay-Rheims Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


What else should I say about this....They all say Jesus created the world, We know from genesis that God created the world, then Jesus is God.

Does these (what u posted) say I'm wrong when I said the bible stated that the world was created through jesus.