OkCornel:


You clearly denied first fruits had anything to do with salary and wages, why are changing mouth now?

Cc: Muttl.eylaff

I meant it has nothing to do with ENTIRE salary or wages, Just 10% of it.

Anas09:

You do not do one and leave the other.

Besides, Kingdom prosperity is tight on Giving. If you are Christian you'd know that. Giving is the beginning and end of Christianity. You empty to be refilled.

If you establish a very strong foundation, there is nothing you cannot build on it as the superstructure; you can be modest and decide to build a bungalow, or you build a duplex, or you can build a skyscrapper, as long as the foundation is built right.

Once you establish the important part of faith hope and love, other aspects will take care of themselves. The people cannot be stingy when they know the importance and benefits of giving in love.

Michellekabod1:

Okay. Are all doctrines from the word of God?

Any doctrine that doesn't go in line with the word of God is not a doctrine of God. Example is the anti-tithe or anti-firstfruit doctrine. All those who hold the doctrine can't show where God said he has stop being interested in it. But I can show you where God started receiving it before the law of Moses. This shows that the doctrine is the word of God. And as long as he hasn't said he is no longer interested in it, then no man has the right to say such for him. The doctrine holds. Or do you want to speak when God hasn't spoken?

lamentations 3:37
Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

alBHAGDADI:
Any doctrine that doesn't go in line with the word of God is not a doctrine of God. Example is the anti-tithe or anti-firstfruit doctrine. All those who hold the doctrine can't show where God said he has stop being interested in it. But I can show you where God started receiving it before the law of Moses. This shows that the doctrine is the word of God. And as long as he hasn't said he is no longer interested in it, then no man has the right to say such for him. The doctrine holds. Or do you want to speak when God hasn't spoken?

lamentations 3:37
Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

Even those in support of tithing cannot show us where God demanded for money as tithes and firstfruits...

alBHAGDADI:


No, first fruit should be given ever time you get an increase. It is the same thing as tithe. Take not of the phrase "of all time increase".

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

First fruit is not the first salary of the year or of your new job. It is ten percent of every salary. If you say it is the January salary or the first salary of a new job, then it means you won't be paying tithe for that month which is wrong. Can you now see the flaw in that? So, anyone telling you that it is a whole salary is a fraud. First fruit is just another term for tithe.

What is INCREASE tho?
Here is how The Message Bible puts it;
Honor God with everything you own; give him the first and the best. Your barns will burst, your wine vats will brim over.

Good News says; Honor the Lord by making him an offering from the best of all that your land produces.
First Fruit is not Tithe. The operative word here is 'First', not 'Increase'.

We Pay Tithe. It is a debt. This is a partnership where we share our profits base on agreed percentage of a venture. But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Deuteronomy:8:18

The Lord gives you power to make wealth, in return you give Him 10%. This is Tithe.

But, we give First Fruit, it's an offering. We recognise that what we have comes from God and offer to Him in honour of Him . Honor the Lord by making him an offering from the best of all that your land produces. Every harvest, the first portion goes to the Lord before you can eat or sell from it.

But, in the case of salary earners, how shd First Fruit be given?

Anas09:

What is INCREASE tho?
Here is how The Message Bible puts it;
Honor God with everything you own; give him the first and the best. Your barns will burst, your wine vats will brim over.

Good News says; Honor the Lord by making him an offering from the best of all that your land produces.
First Fruit is not Tithe. The operative word here is 'First', not 'Increase'.

We Pay Tithe. It is a debt. This is a partnership where we share our profits base on agreed percentage of a venture. But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Deuteronomy:8:18

The Lord gives you power to make wealth, in return you give Him 10%. This is Tithe.

But, we give First Fruit, it's an offering. We recognise that what we have comes from God and offer to Him in honour of Him . Honor the Lord by making him an offering from the best of all that your land produces. Every harvest, the first portion goes to the Lord before you can eat or sell from it.

But, in the case of salary earners, how shd First Fruit be given?

Please stay away from all those Bible translations. They are actually Satan's handwork in that they pervert God's word. Same thing with NIV and NLT.

The only translation I recommend is the KING JAMES VERSION which is older than all these modern and Satan inspired Bibles. Research more on the. and you will see that they call Jesus Satan.

OkCornel:


Even those in support of tithing cannot show us where God demanded for money as tithes and firstfruits...

I just showed you, but you chose to be blind to it. Remain blind then.

alBHAGDADI:
Any doctrine that doesn't go in line with the word of God is not a doctrine of God. Example is the anti-tithe or anti-firstfruit doctrine. All those who hold the doctrine can't show where God said he has stop being interested in it. But I can show you where God started receiving it before the law of Moses. This shows that the doctrine is the word of God. And as long as he hasn't said he is no longer interested in it, then no man has the right to say such for him. The doctrine holds. Or do you want to speak when God hasn't spoken?

lamentations 3:37
Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

Damn...am speechless

MrPresident1:



If you establish a strong foundation, there is nothing you cannot build as a superstructure; you can be modest and decide to build a bungalow, or you build a duplex, or you can build a skyscrapper, as long as the foundation is built right.

Once you establish the important part of faith hope and love, other aspects will take care of themselves. The people cannot be stingy when they know the importance and benefits of giving in love.

You sound mundane. Stinginess? You make it seem like it's a gratitude thingy. No. The Kingdom of God, the Church is built on Giving. Her foundation is giving.

Jesus created the Universe to give and receive. Except you want to steal, cheat, bribe, kill to make money,but if it's godly, then it must have its foundation in Giving.

All the three earthly kingdoms gives and takes from each other.

The Mineral kingdom, vegetable and Animal Kingdoms give and take from each other.

alBHAGDADI:


Please stay away from all those Bible translations. They are actually Satan's handwork in that they pervert God's word. Same thing with NIV and NLT.

The only translation I recommend is the KING JAMES VERSION which is older than all these modern and Satan inspired Bibles. Research more on the. and you will see that they call Jesus Satan.

Pls leave the Bible translations out. Let's deal with the content. Every one who can read will see that they say the same thing.

I am Evangelical, and i read every Bible translation. Believe me, if you read kjb only, you'd missed out on certain contents.

OkCornel:


Are you ready to show us where God asked for money as first fruit?

God gave specific instructions on how first fruits should be given;

Why isn't the church following God's instructions? How did money come into the picture?

270. To set aside the first fruits and bring them to the Temple — Ex. 23:19
271. The Kohanim must not eat the first fruits outside Jerusalem — Deut. 12:17
426. To set aside the firstborn animals — Ex. 13:12
428. Not to redeem the firstborn — Num. 18:17

Take a look at God's specific requirements for first fruits. Look at all those instructions and tell us where God demanded money as first fruit!

Oh, this guy. You don come again. You mean since our society is no longer agrarian, the ordinances of Jehovah have become obsolete?

Have you ever read 'Whatever your hands finds to to do...?'.

Let me ask you. In the Old Testament, how were the People who didn't leave in Jerusalem paying their Tithes and First Fruits? Were they carrying their crops from wherever they were to the Temple in Jerusalem? No sir. They sold and took the money to the Priest. Read Leviticus 27 all. It's a long read, but try to read it.

there's what the Bible called redemption before Christ died.

MrPresident1:


Let your emphasis be more on what is truly important. When you show the people the truly more important things and they are convinced, all other convictions will fall in place.

I hope you know that salvation is giving?

For God so loved the world that He gave...

You can't preach Jesus without giving. Satan is attacking giving because he knows that that is where our freedom is.

OkCornel:
FIRST FRUITS IN JUDAISM AS GOD DESIGNED IT TO BE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Fruits

Hebrew perspective

Main article: Bikkurim (First-fruits)

In Ancient Israel, First Fruits was a type of offering that was akin to, but distinct from, terumah gedolah. While terumah gedolah was an agricultural tithe, the First-fruits, discussed in the Bikkurim tractate of the Talmud, were a sacrificial gift brought up to the altar (Bikkurim 3:12). The major obligation to bring First Fruits (henceforth: Bikkurim) to the Temple began at the festival of Shavuot and continued until the festival of Sukkot (Bikkurim 1:6). This tithe was limited to the traditional seven agricultural products (wheat, barley, grapes in the form of wine, figs, pomegranates, olives in the form of oil, and dates) grown in Israel. This tithe, and the associated festival of Shavuot, is legislated by the Torah. Textual critics speculate that these regulations were imposed long after the offerings and festival had developed.

By the time of classical antiquity, extensive regulations regarding Bikkurim were recorded in the classical rabbinical literature. According to Jewish law, the corners of fields, wild areas, left-overs after harvesting (gleanings), and unowned crops were not subjected to (and could not be used as) the tithe of First Fruits (they were intended to be left as charity for the poor, and other mendicants); plants from outside Israel were also prohibited from inclusion in the tithe, as was anything belonging to non-Jews.[ The rules also specify that each type of product had to be individually tithed, even if the numbers were balanced so that there was no difference in amount between this situation and using just some types of First Fruit as the tithe, and retaining others in their entirety. Fruit which was allocated to the tithe could not be swapped for fruit which wasn't, to the extent that wine couldn't be swapped for vinegar, and olive oil couldn't be replaced by olives; furthermore, fruits were not allowed to be individually divided if only part went to the tithe (small whole pomegranates had to be used rather than sections from a large pomegranate, for example).

The separation of tithed produce from untithed produce was also subject to regulation. The individual(s) separating one from the other had to be ritually clean, and had to include the best produce in the tithe if a kohen (priest) lived nearby. During the act of separation, the produce was not permitted to be counted out to determine which fell under the tithe, nor to be weighed for that purpose, nor to be measured for the same reason, but instead the proportion that was to become the tithe had to be guessed at. In certain situations, such as when tithed produce became mixed with non-tithed produce (or there was uncertainty as to whether it had), the tithed produce had to be destroyed.Anyone who made mistakes in the separation of tithed produce, and anyone who consumed any of the tithe, was required to pay compensation as a guilt offering.

The pilgrims that brought the Bikkurim to the Temple were obligated to recite a declaration, also known as the Avowal, set forth in Deuteronomy 26:3-10 (cf. Mishnah, Bikkurim 3:6). Native-born Israelites and proselytes would bring the Bikkurim and would say the Avowal, but women who brought the Bikkurim were not permitted to say the Avowal, since they were unable to claim inheritance in the Land bequeathed unto the tribes by their male lineage.[a] This Avowal was incorporated into a beautiful and grand festive celebration with a procession of pilgrims marching up to Jerusalem and then the Temple with gold, silver or willow baskets to which live birds were tied. (Bikkurim 3:3,5 and 8 ). The pilgrims were led by flutists to the city of Jerusalem where they were greeted by dignitaries (Bikkurim 3:3). The procession would then resume with the flutist in lead until the Temple Mount where the Levites would break out in song (Bikkurim 3:4). The birds were given as sacrificial offerings and the declaration would be made before a priest while the basket was still on the pilgrim's shoulder (Bikkurim 3:5-6). After the basket was presented to the priest, it was placed by the Altar and the pilgrim would bow and leave (Bikkurim 3:6).


I'M STILL WONDERING HOW FIRST FRUITS HAS TRANSFORMED INTO FIRST WAGES & SALARIES WITHOUT ANY CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS FROM GOD IN THE SCRIPTURES TO THE CONTRARY!

Give unto God and man, but please beware of false teachers twisting the truth (facts) on ground with a little error or lies to suit their selfish interests

So you are a Christian who do not believe in what YHWH did with the Jews? Where are your roots?

Oh wait. Are you a seed of Abraham? Why, are you a Jew? Are you a follower of Jesus of Nazareth? Why, are you a Jew?

We do not live in an Agrarian society when everything was crops anymore, that doesn't mean God has changed or His ordinances have become obsolete. If you don't do it, then don't do it, but to condemn it is wrong.

My harvest from my farm is my wages or income if i were living in the Medieval era, but, i now live in the Modern era when everything is monetary and my wage or income is salary, shouldn't i keep up with obligations because the society has changed?

Anas09:

I hope you know that salvation is giving?

For God so loved the world that He gave...

You can't preach Jesus without giving. Satan is attacking giving because he knows that that is where our freedom is.

The foundation of God's giving was faith, hope and love, this is the foundation on which he gave Christ to us for a sacrifice. Faith, hope, and love was the foundation on which the superstructure of the death of Christ is built which provides shelter to all who come into it.

Anas09:

Oh, this guy. You don come again. You mean since our society is no longer agrarian, the ordinances of Jehovah have become obsolete?

Have you ever read 'Whatever your hands finds to to do...?'.

Let me ask you. In the Old Testament, how were the People who didn't leave in Jerusalem paying their Tithes and First Fruits? Were they carrying their crops from wherever they were to the Temple in Jerusalem? No sir. They sold and took the money to the Priest. Read Leviticus 27 all. It's a long read, but try to read it.

there's what the Bible called redemption before Christ died.

Per the bolded, I hope you know you just lied.

Money was very much in use back then!

Deuterenomy 14 v 22-29

22 Thou shalt [f]give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is far from thee, where the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name, [g]when the Lord thy God shall bless thee,

25 Then shalt thou make it in money, and [h]take the money in thine hand, and go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose.

26 And thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thine heart desireth: whether it be ox, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatsoever thine heart desireth: [i]and shalt eat it there before the Lord thy God, and rejoice, both thou, and thine household.

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates, shalt thou not forsake: for he hath neither part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt [j]bring forth all the tithes of thine increase of the same year, and lay it up within thy gates.

29 Then the Levite shall come, because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, and shall eat, and be filled, that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.


Deuteronomy 14 v 24-26 clearly shows that tithe is NOT MONEY!!!

alBHAGDADI:


Footnotes of Bible? Did the writers of the original manuscripts of the Bible include footnotes or it was done by men of today to deceive people in a wrong direction? Those footnotes are the reason why many now believe in a false doctrine of rapture. They make you read meaning into the Bible instead of allowing the word of the spirit read meaning to you.

Proverbs 3:9 is not a reference to any exodus verse. It is what it is, or else why did it say "all thine increase", a thing exodus didn't say?

Say what?? Rapture is a false doctrine? Lolzzzz. You mean the Bible didn't teach Rapture, but men?

Anas09:

So you are a Christian who do not believe in what YHWH did with the Jews? Where are your roots?

Oh wait. Are you a seed of Abraham? Why, are you a Jew? Are you a follower of Jesus of Nazareth? Why, are you a Jew?

We do not live in an Agrarian society when everything was crops anymore, that doesn't mean God has changed or His ordinances have become obsolete. If you don't do it, then don't do it, but to condemn it is wrong.

My harvest from my farm is my wages or income if i were living in the Medieval era, but, i now live in the Modern era when everything is monetary and my wage or income is salary, shouldn't i keep up with obligations because the society has changed?

Even in the era of Solomon where gold and silver was plentiful, it never changed the object of what was tithed?

In Matthew 23 v 23; Jesus never made any reference to monetary tithes. This was after the era of Solomon.

How then did tithe change from agricultural produce to money?

Or are you implying God did not know what He was doing when He gave out the guidelines on tithing?

OkCornel:


Even in the era of Solomon where gold and silver was plentiful, it never changed the object of what was tithed?

In Matthew 23 v 23; Jesus never made any reference to monetary tithes. This was after the era of Solomon.

How then did tithe change from agricultural produce to foodstuff?

Or are you implying God did not know what He was doing when He gave out the guidelines on tithing?

Wonderful!!! This guy. We have had 4 Eras. The Golden or Classic Era ===Abraham till Jesus.
The Medieval === Agrarian=== from Jesus to the fall of Rome to the World Wars.

The Renaissance Era=== Post World Wars.

Modern Era === Technology. Now.

Through all these Ages, things have changed, but has God? Shd his ordinances?

OkCornel:


Per the bolded, I hope you know you just lied.

Money was very much in use back then!

Deuterenomy 14 v 22-29

22 Thou shalt [f]give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is far from thee, where the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name, [g]when the Lord thy God shall bless thee,

25 Then shalt thou make it in money, and [h]take the money in thine hand, and go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose.

26 And thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thine heart desireth: whether it be ox, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatsoever thine heart desireth: [i]and shalt eat it there before the Lord thy God, and rejoice, both thou, and thine household.

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates, shalt thou not forsake: for he hath neither part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt [j]bring forth all the tithes of thine increase of the same year, and lay it up within thy gates.

29 Then the Levite shall come, because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, and shall eat, and be filled, that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.


Deuteronomy 14 v 24-26 clearly shows that tithe is NOT MONEY!!!

Wow. You were mean in the time of Moses some people were bankers and businessmen who earn salaries instead farm produce?

Anas09:

Wonderful!!! This guy. We have had 4 Eras. The Golden or Classic Era ===Abraham till Jesus.
The Medieval === Agrarian=== from Jesus to the fall of Rome to the World Wars.

The Renaissance Era=== Post World Wars.

Modern Era === Technology. Now.

Through all these Ages, things have changed, but has God? Shd his ordinances?

In Abraham's time, he purchased Sarah's grave using money

In Joseph's time, his brothers used money to purchase food from Egypt

In Moses and Aaron's time, the Israelites had enough gold to create a golden calf

In Solomon's time, Money (gold and silver) was very much available.

In Jesus' time, tithe was never money as per Matthew 23 v 23. Moreso, Judas betrayed him for money

When God gave out His guidelines on tithe, He never requested for money. Where and how did tithe change from agro produce and livestock to money?

Where did God change it?

MrPresident1:


The foundation of God's giving was faith, hope and love, this is the foundation on which he gave Christ to us for a sacrifice. Faith, hope, and love was the foundation on which the superstructure of the death of Christ is built which provides shelter to all who come in it.

Yes. And First Fruit and Tithe comes from the same body of teaching which is Faith Love and Hope. We are saying the same thing. You don't do one and leave the other

It begins with Love, then faith in what is done, then the hope on God.

Anas09:

Wow. You were mean in the time of Moses some people were bankers and businessmen who earn salaries instead farm produce?

Tell me what the Israelites used in creating the "golden" calf

OkCornel:

Tell me what the Israelites used in creating the "golden" calf

How does that connect?

Anas09:

Yes. And First Fruit and Tithe comes from the same body of teaching which is Faith Love and Hope. We are saying the same thing. You don't do one and leave the other

It begins with Love, then faith in what is done, then the hope on God.

You are right, it begins with Love, then faith in what is done, then the hope on GOD

OkCornel:


In Abraham's time, he purchased Sarah's grave using money

In Joseph's time, his brothers used money to purchase food from Egypt

In Moses and Aaron's time, the Israelites had enough gold to create a golden calf

In Solomon's time, Money (gold and silver) was very much available.

In Jesus' time, tithe was never money as per Matthew 23 v 23. Moreso, Judas betrayed him for money

When God gave out His guidelines on tithe, He never requested for money. Where and how did tithe change from agro produce and livestock to money?

Where did God change it?

Well, i don't farm now, i work and pay my tithe and first fruits. No be by force nah. No give.

Na my money nah. How dis tin dey pain una like this? Na my money

OkCornel:


Even in the era of Solomon where gold and silver was plentiful, it never changed the object of what was tithed?

In Matthew 23 v 23; Jesus never made any reference to monetary tithes. This was after the era of Solomon.

How then did tithe change from agricultural produce to money?

Or are you implying God did not know what He was doing when He gave out the guidelines on tithing?

In other words, the ordinances of God have become obsolete?

Anas09:

How does that connect?

The Israelites had gold and silver in their custody at that point in time.

Now move on to Deuteronomy 14 v 24-26. Money was very much in use then.

If God never requested for money as tithe back then, who is requesting for money as tithe now?

MrPresident1:


You are right, it begins with Love, then faith in what is done, then the hope on GOD

You are right. Good night sir.

OkCornel:


The Israelites had gold and silver in their custody at that point in time.

Now move on to Deuteronomy 14 v 24-26. Money was very much in use then.

If God never requested for money as tithe back then, who is requesting for money as tithe now?

Just say it. God's ordinances are obsolete. Say it and rest.

Anas09:

In other words, the ordinances of God have become obsolete?

As regards tithing...yes.

1) It never applied to the gentiles resident outside Israel. Unless you have examples in the Bible to show us where God required gentiles to tithe

2) It never applied to Christians. Unless you have examples to show us where the Christians tithed

3) It never involved money, unless you can show us where God required money as part of titheable items.


No adding to God's word to make your point

Anas09:

Just say it. God's ordinances are obsolete. Say it and rest.

Tithing and firstfruits and the other ceremonial laws of Moses are obsolete.

Anas09:

Say what?? Rapture is a false doctrine? Lolzzzz. You mean the Bible didn't teach Rapture, but men?

Read the below link to see what I meant.


https://www.nairaland.com/4852159/rapture-not-happen-until-christians