rhektor:

I still find it difficult to accept this your explanation of Èṣù. If the Yorùbá has this in his oríkì "a báni wá ọ̀ràn bá ò rí dá" The one who get you troubles even when you don't know how to /the one who get you into trouble when there's seems to be no trouble. Then we can infer that Yorùbá concept of Èṣù is not of a saviour but and evil doer. I don't know where you got your concept of èṣù as a saviour from but I'm sure it is not right. Nothing depicts Èṣù as a saviour in his oríkì. Laaroye ọkùnrin ogún, belekun sunkún keru o bá elekun, this line shows that èṣù escalates matters not that he reduce it. Secondly, to claim that the Hebrew do not have a concept of evil is just too vague. Did you actually read the Bible and how it depict the Jewish nation? If yes you would have noticed that Satan was mentioned in the old testament and in the new so how come they do not have the concept of what was very obvious in their history? You in fact flawed your logic by writing this "can good exist without evil" you further stated just like Job in the old testament sated that can we receive good without evil? You claim because God permit evil then the idea that the devil is not the doer of evil. How much has the devil paid you to venerate him? Mr olu please review your comment above and present it the way it should be

Hmmmmm, quite interesting reading this from you but Please dont find it difficult to believe because knowledge is golden. Unfortunately, the concept of good and evil from the Hebrew-English translators have flaws because the meaning of the original hebrew concept of evil is ‘adversary' or opponent which is linked to to the evil under the concept of evil in IFA corpus. First, let us look at the beginning of conscription of Esu to the Yoruba Bible by Samuel Ajayi Crowther.

You see, Yoruba's 19th century day christianity were the pioneer of Oyo's imposition of the yoruba dialect which is a farther drift in the language's accent form of yoruba which became more in use till today. This form of Yoruba changed the face of Yoruba language to a large extent. All thanks to Samuel Ajayi Crowther. Looking at the history of Ajayi Crowther.

Samuel Ajayi Crowther's Brief History

Samuel Ajayi Crowther was a boy of 12 years old when he was stolen from Osogun,his village in Iseyin, Oyo by Muslim Fulani during the Fulani/Oyo wars and he was sold with his mother and toddler brother to Portuguese slave buyers. However, the ship was intercepted by British Royal Navy and the slaves were released by taking them to Sierra Leone. This was where the Anglican Church Missionary Society took over the educating of young Ajayi. And he had very little knowledge, if any, of Eshu and his complicated functions. Consequently If Èṣù was the Devil, Ifa would totally have been upturned into evil and Yoruba would not be one of the most enlightened race in Africa today. We would have been submerged in the Devil’s worldview.

Conscription of Èshù into his produced English— Yoruba Dictionary.

Ajayi Crowther was the one who compiled in 1843 the English-Yoruba Dictionary upon which so many others have been patterned till today. The word ‘Bara’ in the dictionary reads out the meaning thus: “god of mischief, the devil, Ifa.” Here it is plain that the devil and Ifa are the same to Samuel Ajayi Crowther.....Sir,is this correct from your knowledge on IFA?

Conscription of Èshù into Yoruba ‘Bibèlí Mímo'

Furthermore, one of his foremost achievements, is that Ajayi Crowther translated the English Bible into Yoruba. This can thus be said to be the first medium through which the Christian Satan/Devil/Lucifer was thus interpreted as the Yoruba ‘Èṣú'.....See how venerated personality changed to detested ‘evil' personality within a century and half? This is where Èsù was changed to ‘devil' by Yoruba Bible scholars.Unfortunately in today's Yoruba worldview, millions of Yoruba(you and I inclusive) have seen Èṣú as the Christian devil with the influence of the translation and the Yoruba Bible,which was conscripted a century and half years ago. The Yoruba foundational dictionary clearly shows that unverified views crept into the translating pen of the translators as a result of their little knowledge of Yoruba spiritual beliefs, which Christianity taught them that it is the Devil’s belief. Perhaps, we all need to remove prejudice and be objective to realise that Èṣú shields man from evil and can also expose man to evil( but he is not evil. Neither is he contesting power with God because only God can take his ordained shield from man. Èṣú does not cast evil, he is merely performing his duties to ensure that no man is unjustly attacked by evil.

Research has shown that there are eight forms of evil in Ifa philosophy, these are: Death, Pestilence, Loss, Paralysis, Trouble, Curse, Bondage and Iniquity. All these eight are under the supervision of Èṣú according to God (Èlèdumare) who placed Èṣú in that role to monitor their activities. These eight are always trying to hinder the progress of man and this is why any sacrifice or rites performed on earth to ward evil must have Èṣú’s sacrificed to since he alone has authority to tell the Eight evil to desist from harming a particular person.

Yoruba People do not worship Lucifer/Satan/adversary/Opposition

It is practically impossible for Yoruba to worship Lucifer/satan that rebelled against (God)through biblical translation because Yoruba people venerate Èshù , in such a way that this Èṣú whom Yoruba adds his name as a prefix to their children's names at birth e.g. Eshuola, Eshu-Biyi, Eshu-Tunde, Eshu-gbayi, isnt the same as Luicfer/satan/ devil . Beside, the Yoruba God (Eledumare or Olorun) has no form. Eledumare is an existence in the transcendence. Something no deity can contest power with. Evil is also formless, that is why the Eight Evil were placed under the authority of Èṣú to protect man. Although Èṣú has to be constantly sacrificed to in Yoruba belief because he is the one between us and the other gods. Èṣú has the power to decree any god not to harm a mortal and can also look away if the offending mortal refuses to perform sacrifice to ward of evil. Èṣú does not cast evil, he is merely performing his duties to ensure that no man is unjustly attacked by evil. The Yoruba's Èṣú is the link between man and heaven. He is a strong god and one who has to be pacified so that he takes his tricks elsewhere, and moreover he does not allow trouble/evil to happen to us Yorubas.

On the part of the oriki you analyse which I don't think 'abani woran bao rida' is a noble character that depicts an angel but an evil genius. But do you know Èsù is subjected to the saying of Eledumare? Well,if you understand this, then you can link it with your quoted part of Èsù's dimunited Oriki. And I am sure you have deep knowledge of the Bible and you know where God clearly say, I kill and make alive ( Deuteronomy 32:39 King James Version) . Do you now call God Lucifer/Satan? I hope ‘NOT'. Even the Yoruba says Èsù leyin ibeji, which is a phrase, they believe that there is a protector between the good and bad that comes to town after the birth of twins,such thus it led to idolizing the twins in the first place perhaps. So, twins veneration is the continuation of Yoruba's ancestor worshiping.

Obviously, Yoruba ancestors believed one's death can be shifted to another time because IFA corpus have an account to this effect; The story is about Ale(night), a child of the death and Ojiyan(arguer), a child of Orunmila. The child of Iku said the moon would appear today as told by his father while the child of Orunmila argued with him that it would be out in nine days’ time. Each of them claimed that was what his father told him and they abused the father of each other. The child of Orunmila said if the moon appeared that day, the child of Iku should tell his father to come and kill him and vice versa. On getting home, the child of Orunmila gave report of what transpired to his father and Orunmila told him he was wrong. The father immediately make divination.

Thus a message came out inform of sacrifice to prevent or delay the appearance of the moon. When Iku heard the story from his child, he was happy because, his child was right. He was out in the night to see the moon so that he could go and kill the child of Orunmila. The ebo made by Orunmila was acceptable and the appearance of the moon was delayed for some days and when it wanted to appear, it did not appear once as usual but bit by bit. Therefore, the death could not kill the child of Orunmila. On this, Ifa says:

Ofun Osa lefun
Ofun sa losun
Ofun sa ni moriwo ope
yee yee yee
A difa fun Ale omo Iku
A bu fun Ojiyan omo Orunmila
Nijo ti won n jiyan
Ebo ni won ni won o se
Ojiyan nikan lo n be leyin to n sebo
Ebo re mo ti da adaju
Ojiyan lo ti mosu o sorun
Oni losu o ba le
Ojiyan lo ti mosu o sorun

Ofun marks it with chalk
Ofun marks it with camwood
Ofun adorns it with palm frond gorgeously
Cast Ifa for Ale, the child of Iku
Cast Ifa for Ojiyan, the child of Orunmila
When they were arguing
They were advised to make ebo
It was only Ojiyan who made the recommended ebo
And his ebo was acceptable
It was Ojiyan who delayed the appearance of the moon
It is today that the moon was supposed to appear
It was Ojiyan who delayed the appearance of the moon.

The same way ancient Hebrew have same information on death postponement.(2 Kings 20 New King James Version )
Hezekiah’s Life extended..... And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, “Thus says the LORD: ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die, and not live.’ ”
Then he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the LORD, saying,
“Remember now, O LORD, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the LORD came to him, saying, “Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, ‘Thus says the LORD, the God of David your father: “I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you. On the third day you shall go up to the house of the LORD. And I will add to your days fifteen years. I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria; and I will defend this city for My own sake, and for the sake of My servant David.”

My point here is that I was guilty as you when I was younger,even from childhood of not knowing the true meaning of Èshù concept in Yoruba's cosmology,which is opposite to Christian's devil . And the personality of Yoruba Eshu is not the same as being translated into Yoruba Bible...... Sir, I am no ‘God' and can't be equal to Eledumare because I'm a mortal and only try to post what I have done some verification on before posting them. So I can err on things but Èshù of Yoruba is not LUCIFER OR SATAN found in the Bible that, ‘kills' ; (The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. — John 10:10) because Yoruba Èshù don't kill.

rhektor:

I still find it difficult to accept this your explanation of Èṣù. If the Yorùbá has this in his oríkì "a báni wá ọ̀ràn bá ò rí dá" The one who get you troubles even when you don't know how to /the one who get you into trouble when there's seems to be no trouble. Then we can infer that Yorùbá concept of Èṣù is not of a saviour but and evil doer. I don't know where you got your concept of èṣù as a saviour from but I'm sure it is not right. Nothing depicts Èṣù as a saviour in his oríkì. Laaroye ọkùnrin ogún, belekun sunkún keru o bá elekun, this line shows that èṣù escalates matters not that he reduce it. Secondly, to claim that the Hebrew do not have a concept of evil is just too vague. Did you actually read the Bible and how it depict the Jewish nation? If yes you would have noticed that Satan was mentioned in the old testament and in the new so how come they do not have the concept of what was very obvious in their history? You in fact flawed your logic by writing this "can good exist without evil" you further stated just like Job in the old testament sated that can we receive good without evil? You claim because God permit evil then the idea that the devil is not the doer of evil. How much has the devil paid you to venerate him? Mr olu please review your comment above and present it the way it should be

Abani wa oran ba o rida Yes that is Esu....Esu is police of God " he will always expose evil doer be warned , Only evil people fear Esu.. Esu was extremely feared before the coming of western religion..learn understand Yoruba language First..you people are too educated in western education... esu is not your satan please

Becareful

Obalufon, please modify your post and delete that boy's nonsense. Thanks bro.

MetaPhysical:


AS,
Nice to see you again bro. I could be wrong but I think this thread is the longest we have sustained discussion of origin without creating a new and parallel thread to sweep contributors away, granted more than half the pages are important but unrelated directly to topic of origin.


On interpretation and word knowledge let me say this, I believe if we all think and interprete the knowledge in same way then there will be no dynamism and need to learn and understand further beyond limits. So I appreciate that each of us relate our knowledge via a different flavor or color. No knowledge is lost. The best approach is the one you have taken, which is to give expression to the inner voice and logic and reasoning so you can take readers to a new height. As always, you are fantastic, thank you!

In my own understanding Yoruba word knowledge is few but adaptations, mutations, positioning, attributing, and so on expanded the total library to a continuum that even today as we speak, new terms are evolving.


What I have done is first visualize the ancestors in their sorrounding nature and environment. So when they see a leaf and call it EWE, it is not isolated from their being. It is not an abstract. By calling leaf EWE they expressed an emotion that is significant with the experience of vision, touch, smell, sound and taste. All EWEs are green. So they associated all colors in green to EWE and gave many different attributes of EWE.

So for example when expressing a visual object in green EWE will be used as connotation or reference. Similarly when describing a touch that has same texture as EWE, it would serve as reference point. Same for smell, taste and sound.


The second thing I have done is accept that Yoruba letters have spatial dimensional value. They also possess esoteric spiritual value.
Dimensionally they serve as geo-space reference. Spiritually they serve as energy-benders.

For instance A is attribute for everything geo-spatially of a higher realm above earth and beyond vision, that's one extremity. G is geo-spatially those with manifest and rooted or planted into ground, this is another extremity. Every other letter derives from one of these two extremes and is shaped depending on whether it is placed between A and G, or beyond G.

Inbetween these two etremities are attributes of personality and emotions of continuity or settlement and expansion, expressed as a phenomenon of existential space or in metaphysical realm. They are found in B, D, E, F.

Beyond G are attributes of self-evolution or lessons learnt and self-redemption, whether in physical or metaphysical realm. Examples are letters K, L, M, O, and so on.


I wish time would permit to expand but we will talk some more.

God bless you sir!

Thanks so much dear brother, its been a while and I always enjoy your style a great deal and have equally learn a lot from you that I wont ordinarily have paid attention to, as we all must equip each other with the farthest depth we can go in the abstracts as your style is often.

I love to reason from the abstract just as well. The salient gift of the ancestors to us is the systems of "concepts and demystification": we are to prove our mettle in the problematic concepts that the fathers has left behind strictly for us, in it there are breakthrough, glory and wisdom for us.

We will get there.

Olu317:



Ado is said to be founded by Orunmila,who was the migrant to the new place. Although, I don't actually know which of the Ado he founded first. But certainly migration and hill are too significant shield for Yorubas because, the aged says,má jáà ma sà ní à un fí mo àkin kójú àm àkín kojú tio bá mó'já mó sá à bá Ogún lo. So evidently some thing must made Orunmila to found Ado.. My question; does your town acknowledge Orunmila's Yoruba's version of being the founder of Ado?

On the claim by both of not actually claiming linkage does not necessary because the tradition upheld shows both were founded by same ancestors. Unfortunately, this is where ignorance crept into the mindset of the lazy ones who sees what the whitemen are doing to reconstruct Yoruba language through the research they embarked upon. The story of Ado is likened to the history of Oke Ora, Igbo Ora and Ora (Edo)respectively. This is because Oke Ora was inhabited by Odua group etc while there is a claim that Lajorun, a descendant of Oranmiyan founded Igbo Ora and a descendant of Owomika(Eweka) called Oba Ozolua founded Ora in Edo.These replica are all over Yoruba land of our ancestors moving from one direction to the other. Unfortunately Ora Akoko does not have a king per se. Thus, founding fathers took their ancestors name or their name through every land they sojourned. So much historical research devoid of assumption will go a long way

 

Good question. the point is, there is no way to lay claim without proof.

I would readily love to say yes, but the point is, it is Yoruba tradition that has traced Orunmila back to Ado (Orunmila bara agboniregun, ewi nile Ado, okikin tii meyin erin-in-fon). As we speak, Ado do not have the wherewithal to trace Orunmila back to herself. But something spectacular exist before Oduduwa became 'the beautiful bride' of Yoruba history at the advent of Samuel Johnson's work, the Ado has a sanctuary dedicated by Oduduwa, and horse is forbade in the town because it is an instrument of warfare.

So, the place invoke some sort of "sacred peace" translated to "invincibility" in the oral tradition of Ado. The truth is that at Ado, the natives believe strongly that their town cannot be conquered by any force. But that's not what they meant to say proper: rather, they want to say the town is a place where war is never fought within its walls because its a "sanctuary of peace". But this idea was "militarized" as is the tradition of our Yoruba forebears to boast of their prowess as warlike people.

Ado invokes the term "Jerusalem" without mentioning the word. Jerusalem is "sanctuary of peace", that's what I mean. This form is best compared to Melchizedek, king of Salem historical sort, than to Shetiu that Muslim neologism on Ifa often connotes. This is because Orunmila was an ecclesiastical priestly king with the order known as Ifa, just as king of Salem is known to be a priestly king who speaks for the Creator and the good of man, such that with him, peace reigned.

So, this "etu" (pax, peace) finds expression in what Ado considered sacrosanct to herself, especially because of Oduduwa temple situated in her walls that made her to promote peace around her and her neighbourhood, (so as not to lose her temple at least). Perhaps, this temple is what Ado decided to be known for from time. That fits in into Yoruba's cultural projection: "kilu le tu ba, k'otu se", i.e. "that the land may appease the father and that peace may triumph".

Oba Ado

Oba Ado was said to be an explorer in a part of ifa, he was nicknamed "ejigbara-ileke". It goes thus, "adia fun Oba Ado, ejigbara ileke, tii lo ree bawon mule ibudo". Somehow, the Awori were called "omo iwaju oloko tii s'owo, eyin oloko tii s'ejigbara ileke". This description ascribes to Oba Ado's contingents of whom he spoke in the same passage of Ifa "awa donile, aoku mo, awa dopitan ile..." He was speaking as "enu owa", the mouthpiece of his contingent there and then. This places the Oba Ado of Ifa, through "ejigbara ileke" in Awori's history.

Awadonile, Adonile, Ado, Adi-oni-ile. That's Oba Ado's declaration. But it is said in Yoruba, "Olofin l'onile". The Awori were therefore called "Omo Olofin" or more aptly "Omo Onile" and that traces back to Olofin. And it is on ancient record that Ado was the first to lay claim to any portion of Yorubaland in Yorubaland in history as recorded in ifa, hence the beginning of the term "omo onile" that has come to disabuse. Oba Ado who utter this saying on behalf of his crew is identical with Olofin.

Where can we trace the Oba Ado? Well, the answer is apparent, this is evident in the title of Oba Ado as "Olofin Adimula" of Ado Odo. You can't lord it over your teammates, thus they were all equal (ore-imule, awon awo e) but the mouthpiece was nonetheless their leader.

Another takeaway from the word of Oba Ado is "aokumo", meaning "we are no longer dead". Well we know that such statement implies the perils of seafaring. Oba Ado was talking about his crew, that they escaped death afterall. We have this hope expressed in akure, meaning "our death snaps", or ikare, "death will snap/be weakened." These statements implies that the risk was not a figment of the imagination, but all that happened warrant semantic coinages from contemporary observers in history.

That brought us to Oba Ado's contemporary observers, the statement says that "lo ree bawon mule ibudo" the Oba Ado contingent where scouts sent forth by the people who camped somewhere and were in the need of lands to settle in. This is not a misinterpretation of Yoruba myth, the event took place and is attested to in diverse oral sources being harnessed here. The contemporary observers were the crowd of migrants who were fearful of losing their loved ones that might be member of the special crew, "awon awo", the pathfinders.

"Ogedegede oloko tii mi yebeyebe lori omi" implies that the the scouts embraced their "mission" (iwori, wandering on waters/seekafterandsee) as their own "death", but at the end, it ended in joy. Ado was made king at Lagos Island, meaning that his crew discovered this place.

Igbo Ora

At Ado, the native tradition refer us as "omo afigbi ora to'gun seyin odi" So, that's the place of igbi ora, which is our own version of "igbo ora" found elsewhere in Yorubaland. Here, its "gbedu" and when you drum it, the adversary will not invade the city but fights behind the moats and trenches that surround the town then.

Orunmila

Ifa says, "afounpamo nii sami ona", that is, "it is one who hide a thing that will attach landmark to its destination". It is Yoruba tradition that traces Orunmila back to Ado, not Ado tracing Orunmila to herself. That's how its supposed to be, so we can have the tradition in its pristine form without several conflicting interests to deal with. I think the the Ado that has to do with Orunmila is Ado-Ekiti, Ewi means "The Say" and that's the title of Orunmila.

Ado Ekiti

Here is another great homeland to Oba Ado and his itinerant searchparty. Which Ado comes first I don't know, judging on the directions the ancestors bumped unto the sea from. But I think Ado Ekiti was first established by Oba Ado before Ado Odo. Ado Ekiti is closer to Ondo, which is plural appeal to "The Settlers" which is the same meaning that Ado connotes. Also, the ancestors traveled on the river niger.

They separated from the search party that went eastward at the delta and continued westward, hence there were Igbos that trace back to Ado (Ado nidu), recon as a merchant on the sea in their tradition.

Better still, the Ekiti alludes to the statement of Ado about his men "a digba oke, a le gboingboin" meaning, "we've become 200 hills, we are unbreakable". He boasts of his men after their great achievements, and the same was idealized as a virtue in E-ki-ti, "he never shakes" (as hill never shakes-gboingboin l'oke): we says, "omo Alado m'oro oke ge agbon, omo agbo t'ogun mati, agbo t'ote ma beru". Likewise, as the awori ascribe to Olofin as omo onile, the Ekiti ascribe to ekiti-upland or to the durable virtue that stands the test of time.

Agbonmiregun

Ifa as we know it was invented by the son of Orunmila, and not Orunmila himself. Ifa was invented by Agbonmiregun, who was one of the prominent sons of Orunmila, hence the saying, "ifa dakun masun nile Ado, Oyeku, dakun masun l'otu ife". Ado is identical with Agbonmiregun, "Oyeku" is identical with "aokumo". Otu ife is identical with Ado-ife.


At Ado, it is believed that we came from Ile Ife like every other Yoruba town (omo Olofin to gbade ti Ife wa ni tiwa, awa yo ogun o k'Ado ri) and as a result, Ado Odo used to be Ado Ife, way back with the old folks, but later attracted "Odo" appellation to distinguish her from other Ado in Yorubaland. Why not stick to Ado Ife? I don't know, that's what their record says. Meanwhile, the place refers herself as ale ife (land of ife), such that when a man dies, they says "akanbi lo l'ale ife"-I heard this in a folksong dedicated to an older relation, whom I know.

Having said that, the Ado where Ifa can be traced to is the one that "oyeku" and "otu ife" can be traced to as well, being alternatives. What looks like oyeku at Ado at this contemporary time is Elekule, and it means, "only a coward is afraid of death" or maybe there were better insight I'm yet to come across. What looks like otu-ife is the notion that ife was once an appellation that ascribes also to Ado.

Truth is, concepts don't have to be word-for-word to be fact, one has to be archetype and another, a feedback. That's proof enough that whatever is alluded to did not happen in isolation, as there were witnesses who do not have any vested interest in making 'descriptive words' to be 'one word' since they do not all reason from one brainbox and can say things their own way to tell the same story. However, intellectual exercise however require harnessing both idle and sacrosanct details in purview of fact.

Obalufon:

Abani wa oran ba o rida Yes that is Esu....Esu is police of God " he will always expose evil doer be warned , Only evil people fear Esu.. Esu was extremely feared before the coming of western religion..learn understand Yoruba language First..you people are too educated in western education... esu is not your satan please

I have not even given any interpretation of the name èṣù, anyway thanks for your contributions.
Even your statement that only evil people fear èṣù can not be acceptable. I said this because when I was still a little child I do hear when the elders talk about èṣù má ṣe mí ọmọ ẹlòmíì ni o ṣe. Which means they have that concept about èṣù going about trying them or what do you think sir? That I should learn Yorùbá language first really? I grew up in Lagos but I speak Yorùbá more than I speak English language I don't understand why you want me to learn the language first. Learning the language I first spoke is not something I would want to waste my time doing, it's like asking me to learn the English alphabet again

rhektor,
I maintain my promise not to expound any more on Eshu but I did not rest, I took it as an assignment to explore and bring to you a generic lesson on the topic. I found one....a very good one indeed.

Go to this video brother. It is lengthy but be patient and learn through it. You donot have to accept what is said, but do not shut it out...let it awaken your mind to a new aspect of nature. Remember that what is taught here is generic and fitting for general public.


https://vimeo.com/255482328

Obalufon:


has it come to this ..be careful

That guy is diabolic and dangerous if you chat with him on what’s app you can run mad. This is evel spirit

Obalufon:


has it come to this ..be careful

Stepeen or obalufun should not be on this forum, this fellows are diabolic and dangerous. I almost ran mad chatting with Stepeen. These persons are using g Jazz

Optional09:


Stepeen or obalufun should not be on this forum, this fellows are diabolic and dangerous. I almost ran mad chatting with Stepeen. These persons are using g Jazz

You be 419 abi ...

Optional09:


Stepeen or obalufun should not be on this forum, this fellows are diabolic and dangerous. I almost ran mad chatting with Stepeen. These persons are using g Jazz

chatting with stepeen you almost ran mad , i'm laughing, i pity your generation, you both are into 419 Business..if you don't want to spend the rest of your miserable life in prison stop this fraudulent act you are doing on nairaland .

Obalufon:


chatting with stepeen you almost ran mad , i'm laughing, i pity your generation, you both are into 419 Business..if you don't want to spend the rest of your miserable life in prison stop this fraudulent act you are doing on nairaland .

That bitch is a ritualist and I’ll get him

Optional09 you are both fraudsters you could be the same person .. quit now your days are numbered. .repent or you face the wrath of God

Obalufon:
Optional09 you are both fraudsters you could be the same person .. quit now your days are numbered. .repent or you face the wrath of God

You are the damn dangerous guy seating in a shrine to chat with unsuspected people. Evil that’s why you are yahoo plus. I will make sure you’re arrested

whats going on here??

They've started exposing themselves

Optional09:


You are the damn dangerous guy seating in a shrine to chat with unsuspected people. Evil that’s why you are yahoo plus. I will make sure you’re arrested

?? you are crazy , what is your interest in this forum or subject of discussion. .. you popped up from nowhere after i busted your fake ogboni scam, you are trying run on nairaland with your stepen friend ......You've just deliberately put curse on yourself and your generation

Obalufon:
?? you are crazy , what is your interest in this forum or subject of discussion. .. you popped up from nowhere after i busted your fake ogboni scam, you are trying run on nairaland with your stepen friend ......You've just deliberately put curse on yourself and your generation

For your information, I’ll get you I contacted the son of bitch he commanded for my info then the whole world changed. I am suspecting you’re the one behind this crap or when I get you arrested you’ll provide him

Optional09:




For your information, I’ll get you I contacted the son of bitch he commanded for my info then the whole world changed. I am suspecting you’re the one behind this crap or when I get you arrested you’ll provide him

Please,we don't need your kind and others whose miidsets have nothing tangible to add to this forum.

rhektor:


I have not even given any interpretation of the name èṣù, anyway thanks for your contributions.
Even your statement that only evil people fear èṣù can not be acceptable. I said this because when I was still a little child I do hear when the elders talk about èṣù má ṣe mí ọmọ ẹlòmíì ni o ṣe. Which means they have that concept about èṣù going about trying them or what do you think sir? That I should learn Yorùbá language first really? I grew up in Lagos but I speak Yorùbá more than I speak English language I don't understand why you want me to learn the language first. Learning the language I first spoke is not something I would want to waste my time doing, it's like asking me to learn the English alphabet again

Quite interesting knowing you speak Yoruba more than English, which assumably mean you have deep knowledge of yoruba language but how then did you not be able to interpret the meaning of what you posted as regard Eshu?

Sir,an inquisitive mind seeks the TRUTH and the TRUTH is that, ‘Light Dwell in Darkness and Darkness don't Dwell in Light' . Eshu can't be a protector of Ibeji nor dwell in light if he is ‘evil or death' in Yoruba tradition. After all,the Yoruba Eshu don't tempt nor ask Eledumare to allow him to punish human beings but protect and saves the good ones.

I know you have read the part of the Bible which says in John 10:34, Jesus tells that Pharisees that it is written in the Law that "you are gods " Psalm 82:6 where it says , "I said you are gods , sons of the Most High. All of you"....Have you sat down to enquiry why Jesus said so to reaffirm the old psalm saying?

So dont blame the veneration of yoruba ancestors (Orisa) because ‘Reish' is head in ancient Hebrew.... The root word's alphabet in ancient Hebrew is (ר) ‘R',with the picture of ‘HEAD OF A MAN'. Plainly, Yoruba are the lost but found ancient Ivri( Hebrew in English); which its meaning is ‘traverse' or pass over —traveller through hills. ‘IRIN'/RIN in Yoruba and I guess you also know the importance of hill to yorubas as likened to God's shield even till today ...


Cheers

OlaoChi:
They've started exposing themselves

I saw you followed me on this moniker when I logged in.

May I know why?

rhektor:


I still find it difficult to accept this your explanation of Èṣù. If the Yorùbá has this in his oríkì "a báni wá ọ̀ràn bá ò rí dá" The one who get you troubles even when you don't know how to /the one who get you into trouble when there's seems to be no trouble. Then we can infer that Yorùbá concept of Èṣù is not of a saviour but and evil doer. I don't know where you got your concept of èṣù as a saviour from but I'm sure it is not right. Nothing depicts Èṣù as a saviour in his oríkì.

First, Yoruba tradition is not in any way designed to help or emphasize any kemetic, Hellenic, Hamitic, hebrew, canaan or arabic tradition, so there is no acceptable straightforward correlation without some scrutinizing for a scholar or non scholar alike who may want to use any item sourced from Yoruba pantheon to establish a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt in any application; be it historical, religious, scientific or humanities et cetera.

For instance, you have to understand that the god of iron, ogun was a mortal transformed to a god by modern Yoruba scholars. But when he lived, he was a militia and a keeper of an anvil: "Ogun onile aro". By his name Ogun, you can deduce his personal attribute and go with any of your choice description as his identity:

ogun, meaning, crusher (agbede-ogun: copper-smith)

Ogun: meaning, handsome (o gun rekete, very nice to look at)

ogun; meaning, crush, (o gun, to be smitten by look, to be very handsome)

These names above are disambiguation, meaning you don't need to read any sentimental or religious meaning whatsoever to the name.

In the same Yoruba pantheon is esu, the god of trickery in modern Yoruba. Behind that name also is a mortal being that has once lived and was a popular figure renown for her unpopular and "devilish" actions so to say. now what does the name esu connote, free of the gift of biblical or traditional histrionics? esu means heaps, [ake]su [punch and] mould, esu, dark, esua, black beauty, sujo, compact [together], suon, beautiful.

Stunners

In Ogun, you find out that the name connotes a masculine with good look, warlike and metallurgical attributes. The true bearer was a coppersmith, (agbede, a gbe ide, copper carver) the word also connote farmer '(agbe) and hunter (ode: arepa n'togun) these are the true profession of the man Ogun.

In esu, you never see anything devilish but dark, beauty, compact, cloud (as when its about to rain). Esu was first a name of a person who became popular and was often discredited. About her is the saying, Esu Beleke: ultimately from the folksong, beleke beleke o baba esu, beleke. Esu was a child of Beleke.

Another name for beleke is Obe, so it is said, "Obe b'elesu, b'esu, omo tori ogun wa ye". I want to think Elesu is either a sibling of esu or its a repetition of esu as the child of Obe. Did the biblical devil has this in his oriki as well? If so, what's the significance of beleke to Esu's oriki?

Now what we are doing with the word "esu" in "Christendom" is what our fathers did with most of their historical words. They rubbished them in angst or lack of deeper knowledge. Likewise, we do overpraise and transfer one hero from its origin to where we prefer them to be from, hence Oduduwa for instance was never seen to have been to Lagos, meanwhile it was where Yoruba migrants anchored on arrival.

Moreso, "the god of iron" is not Yoruba thought system, its just Ogun, there is no "god" in Yoruba, its "orisa". Orisa is not equal to god. In the same vein, Esu is not the original devil, but our fathers superimposed "the devil" on the identity of Esu whose name was Lanroye (or Laroye, founder of Osogbo) Arogbo. Sango did not emit flame from her mouth, she was a woman, not a cross dresser, not gay.

Yoruba Watchers' Tradition

The Yoruba tradition is remarkably at home with what obtains everywhere around her, and also in touch with what you have at the Levant culture. The coptic/Aramaic/hebrew projection of both the good and bad angels finds expression in Yoruba: "irin, the watchers, the holy ones" derived from hebrew, 'er' translates to watchful angels: irin is part of the word owonrin, "the migrants" in Yoruba, where 'irin' is 'migration', as found in "erin moje omo sa aja".

Irinwo is 400, the total number of Yoruba watchers, imoleh. Irinwo sounds like 'iron-falling', as wo means fall. There were 200 fallen angels. Awon Awo literally means the seers "ori" or "the watchers" awo. Yoruba word imaleh means malah in Coptic, irin in Aramaic, egregori or angelos in Greek. This is to demonstrate that the Yoruba were very familiar with the thinking of the writer of the book of Enoch and the watchful angels, the angels that keep watch over the people, as was Michael.

The Yoruba fallen Watchers, the Yoruba Demon

The implication of this is that Yoruba tradition is also familiar with esu, the devil. The Yoruba is privy of fallen demons in its archaic or ancient form, Eriwo is akin to eriwoyah. The term is meant to confirm that the word "eriwo" pertains with "Yah". Meanwhile, when the Yoruba says "awon omo eriwo," it simply means violent or dangerous folks. Perhaps, these were the men of status, the nephilim in Yoruba world. "Eriwo" on its own is akin to the fallen watchers.

But there is a distinction of some sort nonetheless. Awo, this stands for watcher, and amawo were people who knew the watcher, the priests of Ifa are so called babalawo, "fathers at watch". "Awon awo" are "the guild of watchers". But then the word "eriwo" connotes fallen angels proper, as it seems to mean eri-wo, meaning, "horn-headed", eri (head) wo (horn). The antithesis to this is the word "iwori" put more aptly in "awo-ri", what's more, eriwo-ya sounds like "horn-headed, disperse!" And that's what the Awos says when they are in procession. I also believe this to be ambiguous though, as it also connotes [a]riwo Yah, as in HalleluYah.

The Yoruba tradition is a celestial arrangement of some sort, with the migrants using angelic terminologies to assign roles to different offices of the migrants and their leaders as it still survive till date. The founding fathers were imale, malech, angels, watchers, awon awo, who descended from heaven unto earth. They employ this arrangement because, their migration was conceived as divine, with heavenly or celestial appeal being their commonwealth and worldview, not borrowed from anywhere, but shared with their source.

Laaroye ọkùnrin ogún, belekun sunkún keru o bá elekun, this line shows that èṣù escalates matters not that he reduce it. Secondly, to claim that the Hebrew do not have a concept of evil is just too vague. Did you actually read the Bible and how it depict the Jewish nation? If yes you would have noticed that Satan was mentioned in the old testament and in the new so how come they do not have the concept of what was very obvious in their history? You in fact flawed your logic by writing this "can good exist without evil" you further stated just like Job in the old testament sated that can we receive good without evil? You claim because God permit evil then the idea that the devil is not the doer of evil. How much has the devil paid you to venerate him? Mr olu please review your comment above and present it the way it should be

Esu as saviour is my take. One man's hero is another man's villain. The ancient Yoruba was polarized into two when the going got tough, the populace were angry with Osun (Osogbo, Osugbo) who was their mother superior, they described Osugbo as esu, who was blamed to have brought all the evil they went through in the epoch of their migration upon them as would a fallen angel.

Meanwhile, others acknowledge her talent and intellect, reckoning her as a saviour in her own right. Thus, the attributes of the original devil rub off on esu, as much as that of the saviour. Albeit, when you say 'Yesua', it means 'Yah is my salvation' in hebrew. Yet Esua is a name in Yoruba liturgy that means esu wa (black beauty, pretty devil if you like) and egba at the same time. The angle that means saviour can be explored.

Jesu/Esu

The ancient Yoruba were familiar with Yesua or Esua as evidence in 'esusu', saving, salvation. The Yoruba have their concept of 'salvation' and saviuor ('egba tii gbani l'owo isoro'/ 'olori olugbani') thus they named their kids based on this at early time in their history. Esu was therefore a household name as it equally means "shady/black" before the arrival of universal religion.

What Olu made of that post you quoted is that esu(a) is a Yoruba form of the word Yesua, which is the hebrew cognate for the Anglicized name "Jesus", not that the original devil is a saviour. Oju Esu is the same as Oju Elegba, Esu is called Elegbara, meaning, saviour of (her) kindred. Esua is the historical figure now held linguistically captive in the same name of the original esu, the devil. We're meant to set her free. Esu is therefore a kind of duality unequally yoked together.

When the Yoruba says "obinrin l'aje obinrin l'esu", they were making reference to the identity of Esu, the consort of Orunmila. This is because Esu is another word for Odu, the black matriarch, that is Odu, Eleyinju Ege. Her real identity as human being is preserved in this version of her name.

Oore yeye Osun.

absoluteSuccess:


First, Yoruba tradition is not in any way designed to help or emphasize any kemetic, Hellenic, Hamitic, hebrew, canaan or arabic tradition, so there is no acceptable straightforward correlation without some scrutinizing for a scholar or non scholar alike who may want to use any item sourced from Yoruba pantheon to establish a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt in any application; be it historical, religious, scientific or humanities et cetera.

For instance, you have to understand that the god of iron, ogun was a mortal transformed to a god by modern Yoruba scholars. But when he lived, he was a militia and a keeper of an anvil: "Ogun onile aro". By his name Ogun, you can deduce his personal attribute and go with any of your choice description as his identity:

ogun, meaning, crusher (agbede-ogun: copper-smith)

Ogun: meaning, handsome (o gun rekete, very nice to look at)

ogun; meaning, crush, (o gun, to be smitten by look, to be very handsome)

These names above are disambiguation, meaning you don't need to read any sentimental or religious meaning whatsoever to the name.

In the same Yoruba pantheon is esu, the god of trickery in modern Yoruba. Behind that name also is a mortal being that has once lived and was a popular figure renown for her unpopular and "devilish" actions so to say. now what does the name esu connote, free of the gift of biblical or traditional histrionics? esu means heaps, [ake]su [punch and] mould, esu, dark, esua, black beauty, sujo, compact [together], suon, beautiful.

Stunners

In Ogun, you find out that the name connotes a masculine with good look, warlike and metallurgical attributes. The true bearer was a coppersmith, (agbede, a gbe ide, copper carver) the word also connote farmer '(agbe) and hunter (ode: arepa n'togun) these are the true profession of the man Ogun.

In esu, you never see anything devilish but dark, beauty, compact, cloud (as when its about to rain). Esu was first a name of a person who became popular and was often discredited. About her is the saying, Esu Beleke: ultimately from the folksong, beleke beleke o baba esu, beleke. Esu was a child of Beleke.

Another name for beleke is Obe, so it is said, "Obe b'elesu, b'esu, omo tori ogun wa ye". I want to think Elesu is either a sibling of esu or its a repetition of esu as the child of Obe. Did the biblical devil has this in his oriki as well? If so, what's the significance of beleke to Esu's oriki?

Now what we are doing with the word "esu" in "Christendom" is what our fathers did with most of their historical words. They rubbished them in angst or lack of deeper knowledge. Likewise, we do overpraise and transfer one hero from its origin to where we prefer them to be from, hence Oduduwa for instance was never seen to have been to Lagos, meanwhile it was where Yoruba migrants anchored on arrival.

Moreso, "the god of iron" is not Yoruba thought system, its just Ogun, there is no "god" in Yoruba, its "orisa". Orisa is not equal to god. In the same vein, Esu is not the original devil, but our fathers superimposed "the devil" on the identity of Esu whose name was Lanroye (or Laroye, founder of Osogbo) Arogbo. Sango did not emit flame from her mouth, she was a woman, not a cross dresser, not gay.

Yoruba Watchers' Tradition

The Yoruba tradition is remarkably at home with what obtains everywhere around her, and also in touch with what you have at the Levant culture. The coptic/Aramaic/hebrew projection of both the good and bad angels finds expression in Yoruba: "irin, the watchers, the holy ones" derived from hebrew, 'er' translates to watchful angels: irin is part of the word owonrin, "the migrants" in Yoruba, where 'irin' is 'migration', as found in "erin moje omo sa aja".

Irinwo is 400, the total number of Yoruba watchers, imoleh. Irinwo sounds like 'iron-falling', as wo means fall. There were 200 fallen angels. Awon Awo literally means the seers "ori" or "the watchers" awo. Yoruba word imaleh means malah in Coptic, irin in Aramaic, egregori or angelos in Greek. This is to demonstrate that the Yoruba were very familiar with the thinking of the writer of the book of Enoch and the watchful angels, the angels that keep watch over the people, as was Michael.

The Yoruba fallen Watchers, the Yoruba Demon

The implication of this is that Yoruba tradition is also familiar with esu, the devil. The Yoruba is privy of fallen demons in its archaic or ancient form, Eriwo is akin to eriwoyah. The term is meant to confirm that the word "eriwo" pertains with "Yah". Meanwhile, when the Yoruba says "awon omo eriwo," it simply means violent or dangerous folks. Perhaps, these were the men of status, the nephilim in Yoruba world. "Eriwo" on its own is akin to the fallen watchers.

But there is a distinction of some sort nonetheless. Awo, this stands for watcher, and amawo were people who knew the watcher, the priests of Ifa are so called babalawo, "fathers at watch". "Awon awo" are "the guild of watchers". But then the word "eriwo" connotes fallen angels proper, as it seems to mean eri-wo, meaning, "horn-headed", eri (head) wo (horn). The antithesis to this is the word "iwori" put more aptly in "awo-ri", what's more, eriwo-ya sounds like "horn-headed, disperse!" And that's what the Awos says when they are in procession. I also believe this to be ambiguous though, as it also connotes [a]riwo Yah, as in HalleluYah.

The Yoruba tradition is a celestial arrangement of some sort, with the migrants using angelic terminologies to assign roles to different offices of the migrants and their leaders as it still survive till date. The founding fathers were imale, malech, angels, watchers, awon awo, who descended from heaven unto earth. They employ this arrangement because, their migration was conceived as divine, with heavenly or celestial appeal being their commonwealth and worldview, not borrowed from anywhere, but shared with their source.



Esu as saviour is my take. One man's hero is another man's villain. The ancient Yoruba was polarized into two when the going got tough, the populace were angry with Osun (Osogbo, Osugbo) who was their mother superior, they described Osugbo as esu, who was blamed to have brought all the evil they went through in the epoch of their migration upon them as would a fallen angel.

Meanwhile, others acknowledge her talent and intellect, reckoning her as a saviour in her own right. Thus, the attributes of the original devil rub off on esu, as much as that of the saviour. Albeit, when you say 'Yesua', it means 'Yah is my salvation' in hebrew. Yet Esua is a name in Yoruba liturgy that means esu wa (black beauty, pretty devil if you like) and egba at the same time. The angle that means saviour can be explored.

Jesu/Esu

The ancient Yoruba were familiar with Yesua or Esua as evidence in 'esusu', saving, salvation. The Yoruba have their concept of 'salvation' and saviuor ('egba tii gbani l'owo isoro'/ 'olori olugbani') thus they named their kids based on this at early time in their history. Esu was therefore a household name as it equally means "shady/black" before the arrival of universal religion.

What Olu made of that post you quoted is that esu(a) is a Yoruba form of the word Yesua, which is the hebrew cognate for the Anglicized name "Jesus", not that the original devil is a saviour. Oju Esu is the same as Oju Elegba, Esu is called Elegbara, meaning, saviour of (her) kindred. Esua is the historical figure now held linguistically captive in the same name of the original esu, the devil. We're meant to set her free. Esu is therefore a kind of duality unequally yoked together.

When the Yoruba says "obinrin l'aje obinrin l'esu", they were making reference to the identity of Esu, the consort of Orunmila. This is because Esu is another word for Odu, the black matriarch, that is Odu, Eleyinju Ege. Her real identity as human being is preserved in this version of her name.

Oore yeye Osun.

how can I reach you sire?

hayoholla:


how can I reach you sire?

This is my mail
ladesther@yahoo.com

Thanks, stay blessed bro.

2prexios:

This is my mail ladesther@yahoo.com
Thanks, stay blessed bro.

is "absolute success" your alternate moniker?

hayoholla:


is "absolute success" your alternate moniker?

Yes its mine.

In conclusion on the true identity of the historical esu, an old saying just came through my mind today:

When the Yoruba wants to invoke esu against an assailant, they would feed the esu with adin, because they claim adin is taboo to esu. Why is this so? Because tradition claims that Adin is the name of the mother of esu. That further establish the humanity of the icon.

esu kii je adin. Nitoripe, adin ni oruko iya esu.

Two interpretations are possible from the above: either the matriarch is adin or her mum, but her mum most likely. So to the glory of God we have the name for the father and mother of the ancestor greatly misunderstood as esu, being the daughter of Beleke and Adin.

Blessed year of absolute success to you.

hmmm

Yet people say "esu mase mi, omo elomi ni o se"
How the hell was he a saviour then?
I do not subscribe to that idea of esu being jesus. Besides not everything Yoruba must have a Hebrew equivalent. We should have some form of originality.

Opiletool:
Yet people say "esu mase mi, omo elomi ni o se"
How the hell was he a saviour then?
I do not subscribe to that idea of esu being jesus. Besides not everything Yoruba must have a Hebrew equivalent. We should have some form of originality.

ok