dingbang:
Nice piece bukatyne.


Modernity has replaced the old ways of behaviours. I really don't blame parents though, no matter how hard they try to tame their kids especially the females, when they grow up, they are still misled by the society.

Thanks.

I still believe in train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Most of the kids were not trained.

ThothHermes:
You are trying to cage women abi

Stop trying to police their bodies.

You don't tell men how to behave but you want to tell women what to do and how to do it.

This is not the 20th century. That's how they prevented from voting
Slut-shamers will go to hell.

Although I believe this is sarcasm, I actually expect same standards from men and women.

HungerMustGo:
Valid concern. But who will take you seriously. This is a fast paced age. Fast internet, fast wealth, fast cars, fast technological advancements. Nobody wants any slow down anymore. Not even in relationships unfortunately. If you slow things down, nobody wants you. Too bad.

So sad.

lilmax:
lol

why don't you go to transactional sex topics online and see women flop?

the line "its my life, my body,my choice" divided women like never before,but most women are too dumb to see it

at least, the writer is a woman, so we ain't getting "men shouldn't tell women what to do"

Would like to see links to some.

Jayslicky:
I just love the way women are screaming and complaing, trying to be equal with men, it makes men know that they are the standard of what is called successful, no matter how a people run they can never run past their shadow, they'll keep playing catchup till the end of time, it will be an intriguing movie.

Did you read the OP?

Michelle55:
Lemme park here.. Here to learn and read as usual

What have you learnt?

Fkforyou:


Wow...How can someone spill so much trash like this?

I swear you didn't read the article.

Quick question, the person that wrote this article, what's her husband's name?

Hahahahaha

theButterfly:
I would love to see that Imitation Game film. Alan Turing was a genius. It's unfortunate he took his own life.

I am looking forward to watching it too.

desvi:
we are 7.7 billion people on planet earth of which roughly 50% are female of which not all can be classy

Classy should be what every lady aims for.

Fountainofyouth:
Apologies bukatyne for derailing your thread, someone had to be schooled on sense.

No worries on this one.

His first comment was off point.

KanwuliaExtra:


Na who be “we”?
Na who be “they”?

Na who dey look for who to “trip”?
See freak show!


FEMININE MYSTIQUE = VIRGINITY?
What is the mystique in feminism?
You live your life to be validated by others(men or women) and you call yourself a feminist?
There is no “we” in feminism. I don’t do labels or “gangster-philosophy”. Do your own, I do my own.
Abeg no be “WE” matter!
Shikena!





Sooooo, na wetin cause wahala be dis?
Interesting the narrator did not emphasize on the fact that the ladies were being loud. Women should not discuss the almighty DICKK in public o, but should only HIDE in secrecy/hypocrisy to discuss and share their experiences. If men discussed the female anatomy in such terms or worse, women would accept it as “boys will be boys talk”. Women have to learn to CHOP DICKK and pretend to be “coy” to “trip” men.

The only problem here is that the ladies were in a movie theater. I don’t see anything strange in their behavior. Glad they left the theatre, so as not to disturb others.

Awon me and “my husband” group of feminist-mystiquettes! These ladies are not married and have every right to demystify their own “feminism”!

Kudos to them!

No where did the OP mention virginity in her comment.

Interestingly, boys who would stoop so low to discuss their sexual contests in public would be looked down upon.

In fact, I have never seen a group of boys or men uncouth enough to discuss their sexual business in public.

Amongst themselves? Yes which often times is 'coded'.

bukatyne:


Having gone through all your posts on this thread, I really appreciate the ladies who dealt with you.

@zeb04, @Fountainofyouth

Thank you.

dealt with me?
That's funny.do I look like someone that Can be dealt with to you?
I DON'T CARE about your opinions.
Please tell your allies(dandruff forehead and lonely cat keeper) they succeeded at nothing!

baby124:
Interesting article. I think this cuts across for both the young men and women... it starts from the breakdown of marriages and relationships in the home, parents too busy to raise their kids right or have time for them, then the internet as a medium of expression and validation.

I do agree that there is a serious breakdown in morals and value across the world and, across genders. The constant need for validation and see-me culture is atrocious. The. The peer pressure that comes with it, even more tragic. I like to think of myself as a feminist and I have always been.

I am not a social media person and when I stroll through social media in ghost mode, I see even parents looking for validation on the internet, both male and female. You see mothers twerking, shaking breast, taking pictures daily with suggestive poses. It’s like they lack attention and love at home, very sad. I even feel drained Viewing these pictures and watching praise videos where they twerk suggestively and, are furiously all dressed up. Maybe it’s me, but that must take a lot of time and energy which I don’t have. It’s hilarious and mind boggling I must admit

You see fathers posting Videos where they are dancing, puffing up muscles, showing off suspicious wealth that we all know they did not work for, and twerking with strange women or strippers. Lmaoooo.

Then you see parents open social media pages for babies... even their teenagers are all on social media, exposed to predators and all sorts of vices. Some parents even encourage their kids to participate in these vices to gain instant gratification and to pepper their mates and the world. This is a worldwide phenomenon and confirms an absolute loss of values. For both men and women.

Men have absolutely lost their charm and chivalry. It’s like all man for himself in the age of the internet. There is access to so many more women than before. Everyone seems to be desperate and in a hurry with many options. No one sees the need to try anymore and work on themselves or their relationships. There is always one desperado a click away willing to validate you if you twerk hard enough.

Then there is the porn. My God, is there the porn? So vile and extremely disturbing the lengths porn reaches these days. Even little kids are exposed to porn and we see little kids even rape these days. Porn has definitely spiked up the level of sexual immorality around the world. Little kids are being mentally abused by watching porn both online and even in their physical spaces. Selfish and so called adventurous people even have sex in parks in full view of little kids to destroy their innocence.

At the end of the day, it is the age we live in. The age of being moderate is long gone and we have lost it as a people. It’s crazy but it is what it is.

ibkayee:
These women of the past that you’re romanticizing were forced to conduct themselves a certain way

The men were also forced to certain codes of conduct also.

For instance, you had a lot of shotgun weddings. They also had code of conducts.

Now that people have the liberty to behave as they will, they pick all the wrong characters to exhibit and are sadly not willing to face the consequences.

desvi:


I think you are guilty of what sociologists call moral panic
you assume a moral breakdown, not even decline whereas there is no such a thing
you can't take some examples from social media of people who show off their bodies or wealth (something people have always been doing in different forms) and claim that people nowadays have no values
and like the author you have not made any distinction between people of different social and educational backgrounds
I was personally appalled by the language and crassness of these young ladies the author of the article saw with her husband but for every one of them there are young people who mind their language and consciously and eloquently articulate themselves, who have good manners
there are also studies that show that young Westerners nowadays (unfortunately there is no such study I know from Africa) uphold traditional family values even more than their parents do/did and values which were used to write the human rights charter are to a great extent universally accepted, something that people some 100 years ago could not even dream of
bottom line is: times have changed, so have some moral standards in the way that they have become stronger or have been replaced but never disappeared

While I agree with you that some people still hold the moral values dear, a lot have been immoral and what we would cringe at previously is now accepted or ignored.

In addition to break down of morals in Nigeria, you have the hypocrisy: we encourage people to do things we wouldn't ourselves.

KanwuliaExtra:



Indeed! The writer was only trying to be “mischievous”. She was only playing the devil’s advocate to prepare her readers for her real BEEF. The perfect manifesto for “brain-washers”aka pastors, swindlers and yahoo guys/dolls.
She knew she would find an audience by mentioning “feminism”, so the usual feminism-bashers would answer the call to war, even without understanding what they are reading.


I ask you again:
What has feminism got to do with a group of ladies experiencing some kind of psycho-sexual “hangover” in a movie theater?

Why did the author even mention feminism in her article? To settle her own wahala with the nostalgia of “virginity”. You already know.
She finally landed by talking of how women used to be “enigmatic” and “mystical” to MEN! Ha! In this age of same-sex unions?

Anyone can just wake up, pick a particular behavior or lifestyle he/she does not believe in and find any way to sneak the word “feminism” into it.

You find this all over NL.
If people understood that feminism is purely subjective, they would never discuss it.

This is a classical case of a logical fallacy of ASSOCIATION. You should be familiar with how con-artists operate. They start by appealing to your weakest emotions, then finally land to rip you off with their true intentions.

But because the word “feminism” has been misused by most, it brings out the worst in the most shallow minds. Why? To create unnecessary “beef” amongst emotional intellectuals devoid of any sense of understanding.

The author is in a clime where the feminism card is played a lot both ways.

Feminists: she should leave the young girls to express themselves.

Non-feminists: it is because women think they are equal to men that they want to start behaving like them.

spongeisback:
Exactly! Whenever Africans bring up culture and religion just know they're about to infringe on someone's right. If a woman wants to have sex let her have sex, if she doesn't let her don't. No need to shame anyone for their choice after all you won't bear the consequences with them

Dead wrong. The consequences are far reaching. Economic, social, we can even argue spiritual. Everyone is affected eventually.

A thesis could be written on this.

That is why slut-shaming is a thing. It's not society. It's a mechanism we have evolved to protect ourselves.
Even those women who want the right to sleep around do not want their daughters to sleep around.
Yep. It's innate.

Would you want your daughter to sleep around in the name of not being shackled by culture Would you like to see her in a porn.n flick??
What if what she wants is to have sex in front of the camera?
That's your answer right there.

hahaha another woman sleeping around does not affect you in any way. You just want to force your values on people. Mind your business.

ThothHermes:

Dead wrong. The consequences are far reaching. Economic, social, we can even argue spiritual. Everyone is affected eventually.

A thesis could be written on this.

That is why slut-shaming is a thing. It's not society. It's a mechanism we have evolved to protect ourselves.
Even those women who want the right to sleep around do not want their daughters to sleep around.
Yep. It's innate.

Would you want your daughter to sleep around in the name of not being shackled by culture Would you like to see her in a porn.n flick??
What if what she wants is to have sex in front of the camera?
That's your answer right there.

bukatyne:


No where did the OP mention virginity in her comment.

Interestingly, boys who would stoop so low to discuss their sexual contests in public would be looked down upon.

In fact, I have never seen a group of boys or men uncouth enough to discuss their sexual business in public.

Amongst themselves? Yes which often times is 'coded'.

Ok, my misunderstanding then.
Please, explain what “the mystique of feminism abi na femininity” means, so we do not lose it entirely.

I frankly do not understand what the author meant.

Stoop so low. . . ? How? By whose standards?

Interesting that you only felt put off by the contents of their discussion(chopping a HUGE DIIICCK after a good binging party ) ? I found it quite entertaining and HILARIOUS!

I was only irritated they were being loud in a movie theater, where people PAID to have some peace and quiet. I don’t give a ratzzzmatazzzzz what they were discussing. Knowing just “a little” about moi on or offline, . . . . I have done and acted worse EVEN WITHOUT A DROP OF ALCHHOL or a ANY form of DRUG! I still dey kamkpeeee for MY HOUSE with husband and all. Amen!!!! No apologies.

So, do you and Debra McLeod claim some ethical or moral superiority over them, simply because they loudly discussed your “taboos of social decorum or broke your rules of public etiquette” in a public place?


*btw, there is nothing that needs to be coded when talking about vaginas and penisees or getting a “real hump” in the real world. the women like those ladies in the article love to keep it real with their binges and orgies. no pretence necessary. my kind of women and men. if you don’t like them, leave them alone. they finally left the theatre right? no need to use others as examples for not meeting the “holy-nwenhe-standards of st. debra mcleod. . . . just saying, it is ok to phock, let phock and talk about it. i find such traits in men or women very refreshing from the perspectives of “sanctimonious prudes and emotionally-constipated hypocrites. -. . . . .

please dm dr.-st-debra-mvleod in her any of her in-boxes or “blogs” to stop writing about “we women”. i find it extremely patronizing and terribly all-inclusive. . . . . as a “woman” too, she should never speak for moi. . . . thanks.

bukatyne:


Classy should be what every lady aims for.

but you don't get to decide for them
thank God

baby124:
Interesting article. I think this cuts across for both the young men and women... it starts from the breakdown of marriages and relationships in the home, parents too busy to raise their kids right or have time for them, then the internet as a medium of expression and validation.

I do agree that there is a serious breakdown in morals and value across the world and, across genders. The constant need for validation and see-me culture is atrocious. The. The peer pressure that comes with it, even more tragic. I like to think of myself as a feminist and I have always been.

I am not a social media person and when I stroll through social media in ghost mode, I see even parents looking for validation on the internet, both male and female. You see mothers twerking, shaking breast, taking pictures daily with suggestive poses. It’s like they lack attention and love at home, very sad. I even feel drained Viewing these pictures and watching praise videos where they twerk suggestively and, are furiously all dressed up. Maybe it’s me, but that must take a lot of time and energy which I don’t have. It’s hilarious and mind boggling I must admit

You see fathers posting Videos where they are dancing, puffing up muscles, showing off suspicious wealth that we all know they did not work for, and twerking with strange women or strippers. Lmaoooo.

Then you see parents open social media pages for babies... even their teenagers are all on social media, exposed to predators and all sorts of vices. Some parents even encourage their kids to participate in these vices to gain instant gratification and to pepper their mates and the world. This is a worldwide phenomenon and confirms an absolute loss of values. For both men and women.

Men have absolutely lost their charm and chivalry. It’s like all man for himself in the age of the internet. There is access to so many more women than before. Everyone seems to be desperate and in a hurry with many options. No one sees the need to try anymore and work on themselves or their relationships. There is always one desperado a click away willing to validate you if you twerk hard enough.

Then there is the porn. My God, is there the porn? So vile and extremely disturbing the lengths porn reaches these days. Even little kids are exposed to porn and we see little kids even rape these days. Porn has definitely spiked up the level of sexual immorality around the world. Little kids are being mentally abused by watching porn both online and even in their physical spaces. Selfish and so called adventurous people even have sex in parks in full view of little kids to destroy their innocence.

At the end of the day, it is the age we live in. The age of being moderate is long gone and we have lost it as a people. It’s crazy but it is what it is.

I completely agree with you. I look at the world today and feel fear coursing through my heart at the thought that i will have to raise my children in a society where restraint, modesty amd morality are on the verge of extinction. I also seriously wonder what happened. How did we come to this sorry state?

cococandy:
The problem I have with posts like these is that they target women and make them out to be evil for behaviors they praise in men. It’s disgusting to say the least.

While I wouldn’t personally chose to be loud in a movie theatre about who I humped or what not, I’ll make a point to condemn such behavior equally in any gender. If it’s an issue when women do it but doesn’t matter when men do it, then the problem isn’t the behavior itself but our need to fit women into a certain mold. A mold that pleases men and on which the value of womanhood is defined. ie by how pleasing we are to men.

In those “good old days” when men were more mystified by women. When men used to write love letters and what not, what happened then? How was that era more beneficial to women? Fighting for basic rights and clamoring for simple respect. Did the supposed mystery stop men from beating up women or deny them access to infrastructure and positions of power? Did that all too wonderful mystery solve any social problems for women that we aren’t still fighting for today?

I don’t take seriously any moral caution that doesn’t apply both ways. Maybe I agree with the idea that the behavior isn’t optimal but will never agree to the bias against women which is what it really is all about.

I very well agree with you that moral cautioning should go both ways and that is the major problem I have with our society.

This woman wrote to women because

1. She is female
2. She is addressing a society complaining of shortage of good men hence her statement 'quality ladies attract quality men'
3. She is addressing women who complain of not been respected or complain of been treated the way they present themselves.

The truth is that in marriage, it is a different balm game. All the advantages a woman seems to have been mystified ends at the altar (like they say, shakara don end!).

Look at all the advantages the men scream women have: it is always outside marriage; it is always from men in the society and not their own husbands.

That's why I sound like a broken record: every woman needs to choose a husband diligently.

doitforyou:
hahaha another woman sleeping around does not affect you in any way. You just want to force your values on people. Mind your business.

It does. Why not answer the rest of my questions

bukatyne:


While I agree with you that some people still hold the moral values dear, a lot have been immoral and what we would cringe at previously is now accepted or ignored.

In addition to break down of morals in Nigeria, you have the hypocrisy: we encourage people to do things we wouldn't ourselves.

do you know what I find interesting?
in all the discussions about morals, it centers around women's séxuality
why?

You are still missing the point no one is encouraging people to do anything. You have to understand that people are different, my morals are not your morals, what you and the writer are doing is imposing your own morals on others. I wouldn't bash a woman that is sleeping around even though that is not my MO because 1. It is not my business 2. She can do whatever she wants, that is not encouraging. Previously set morals was set by men, women now no longer want any part of that and just want to live their lives. However, you are free to still uphold those values and morals no one is stopping you don't just expect other women to join you.

bukatyne:


While I agree with you that some people still hold the moral values dear, a lot have been immoral and what we would cringe at previously is now accepted or ignored.

In addition to break down of morals in Nigeria, you have the hypocrisy: we encourage people to do things we wouldn't ourselves.

yeyeosoronga:


Nobody writes letters anymore, and that has to do with technological advancements. Emails are going out of fashion too, especially when it comes to matters of the heart when you have WhatsApp, instant messengers etc.
Bad behaviour is rife amongst young people these days, but it's not gender dependent. The same rate low quality men are been churned out, is same as that of women.
Rude, entitled young people like the movie goers that made this person write this are everywhere, even in the good ol' days. It had nothing to do with their gender, but more like their age.
Young men brag about shifting wombs with their cassava, scattering pussies etc in public places making a nuisance of themselves, so such senseless talks and behaviour is not gender specific. More to do with stupidity in young people, because almost all thrash talkers like that are young <25years. The older ones have perfected the act of silence/chop and clean mouth and this has always been the case since time immemorial (because it doesn't mean the older generation have better morals tbh. Many of them are hypocrites)
The world is changing, and what was of value those days is no longer valuable. Values are changing worldwide.

I do not think decorum in public is hypocrisy.

There is a reason we have enough public and private parts. Ditto public places.

No one has said these evils are gender dependent. If I lament how boys are doing blood money doesn't mean girls don't have their hands smeared with blood too.

Agreed that times have changed and we have faster outlets than letters, the spirit behind the letters can still be present in the into any messaging apps we have.

Morals have been same however decent people didn't discuss their business in public.

If my daughter is a grown adult, she is now independent, I no longer control her life. If that's what she says she wants to do, I will be sorely disappointed but at the end of the day she is grown and she makes her own choices and she will also be responsible for the consequences. It still doesn't affect you though.

ThothHermes:
It does. Why not answer the rest of my questions

CHoccolaTE:
For heavens sake @topic, which one is feminine mystique? Is it American/British version of femininity where romance is defined by what OP described (love letters etc).

Cultures change
Values change
Norms change

There was never any globally defined meaning of femininity or feminine behaviour
In some parts of Tanzania being a woman entails tending to cattle and farming and bringing harvest back to take care of the husband. Or is it in India where women are the ones that pay bride price
On front page of Nairaland some days ago there was a thread on a certain country in Africa, I can't remember the name, where men adorn themselves with makeup so women can choose from the most attractive one of them.

Wow, what a thread

Feminine Mystique as used by the writer was when women were couth, decent and ladies.

spongeisback:
OP during the days when the skies were blue and our mothers spent times listening to old tales by the fire,partly lit moon and crickets sound their only companion in the summer night. With all their mystique,virginity and kitchen poweress, they were still abused,tongue lashed, cheated on and even replaced by the men who were suppose to love and protect them.

Did you think it's this present generation that men started calling women derogatory names? My neighbor in the early 90's that was her husband's favorite name for her even though she married a virgin, churchgoer, breadwinner and mother of his 5 kids.

Marriage is a different ball game and every woman must strive to choose a good husband else whether she is mystique or mysterious, she will see pepper.

you people need to do some reading seriously, alternatively watch some historical movies
people have since times immemorial been complaining about immorality and have been discussing ethical questions
it's nothing new
these the-world-is-going-down and society-will-implode have never come into being
people have committed terrible atrocities but not because people were expressing their séxuality freely, rather because they were suppressing it

bukatyne:


Marriage is a different ball game and every woman must strive to choose a good husband else whether she is mystique or mysterious, she will see pepper.

see, this is why people do not listen to you but feel offended
you are disrespectful
you are not above women
you don't get to tell them anything
stop being so damn patronizing
you are not talking to your kids here

KanwuliaExtra:


Ok. Let NL be the judge.
I can NEVER subscribe to such blogs written by Debra McLeod for MANY REASONS.

#1. I am an authority in my own sexuality, relationship, psychiatric and emotional health. I don’t need her blogs or BOOKS from ANY relationship/marriage coach.
Dat Na for those wey need “help”! HA! DEM BOKU-BOKU. Every problem need “pastor” o. Even that which can be EASILY FIXED by the individual.

I know you very well ke, like I know MOST old posters. From the title of their threads, you can figure out what types of messages they send.
Na dis kind of “wayo” topics dem go see you.
Especially with your philosophical affiliation with some of the OP’s peculiar topics relating to male-female relationships.

The reason this thread was deleted.

https://www.nairaland.com/5222572/reason-why-thread-marital-rape


I am glad most can see through the real intentions and messages of some threads and those who post them.

Not everyone is an illiterate on NL.

I wish the OP will be more direct in his/her messages. No need for “politics”.

If she want virginity and love-letters, fine. Men like you are available. Make una nor venture near my gate.

Shikena!

My message has always been direct.