Has my thread title angered you? Well, I suppose it should but in due time everything will become crystal clear.
On the keys.......

Modified:
We have come to the end of this thread as it has served it's purpose. God is One. Anything from this is unbiblical. Concerning the trinity or unitary case.. Its just people looking at the same coin from different sides. All we simply have is one God (the Father), One Messiah (the son of God), and the spirit of God and they are One.
Read the first chapter of Hebrews it is made clear there. Let love lead, God bless

The Jehovah witness body believes that Jesus Christ is not the Most-High-God while some other christian body believes that Jesus Christ is God himself. Who is right and who is wrong?
The answer is, NO ONE IS WRONG. It just depends on the basis from which you have stated your view.
Heb 1:8
But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom."
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD"
The above bible verses are one of the core reasons some Christian believe that Jesus Christ is actually God-The father.
THE ENLIGHTENMENT I {Who is Christ}
Out of the rib of man was the woman formed, so that in many likeness, she shall be like the Man. Out of the spirit was the word formed and of the word was Christ formed {made manifest as flesh and given an entity of his own}. Thus, Christ became an independent personality of his own.

Do you know what God saw in Christ? He saw His reflection, his exact imprint of nature and the radiance of His own Glory (Check out Heb 1:3) and for this , God was most pleased with him and he gave him the greatest honor of all. He begat Christ and made him his Son. And it was made established that Christ is the son of the Most-High-God. There is so much more to this, he that reads let him learn.
Well, let us shed more light...
On the keys......

Who then has an answer to this questions??
IF Jesus was God-The father;
1. When Jesus came to earth in flesh, who was directing the affairs in heaven? Or was there still the Father in heaven since he was here on earth manifested in flesh?
2. Every prayers and reverences Jesus made while on earth, to whom was it directed to? Was it to himself?
{As Christians, do not confuse yourself with foolish doctrines. For you have only one teacher which is Christ. And remember Christ is the word of God. Therefore, anything that doesn't go in line with what the bible has stated is foolishness and poisonous to our maturity in Christ}

God is the father,
God is the holy spirit, and
God is IN the son"...

The Enlightenment II {Is Christ God?}
Look out and search, read the bible and meditate on it. Jesus declared it, the demons knew it, even the apostles showed it.
I am a bit rusty and I'm not really a fan of quoting bible verses but I am sure these are words of Christ and not mine.
Matthew 10:40"He that recieves you receives me, he that receiveth me receiveth HE THAT SENT ME".
Matthew 11:25 " I thank you FATHER, lord of heaven and earth, that you have......"
Matthew 10:33 "Whoever denies me before men, I will also deny before my FATHER who is in heaven.
Matthew 8:29 " What have you to do with us, O SON OF GOD"
Another one, was when Jesus was teaching and told those present that he hasn't come on his own accord but everything he hath done and is to do hath been of the FATHER".{Anyone that remembers the bible reference for this should please help me out with it}.....
He that hath the truth in him let him confirm that this are the words of Christ and that Christ was openly declaring that he wasn't our Heavenly father, He is the Son of the father.
He through propitiations has even bestowed the grace that we also may be Sons of the Most-High-God [Just as He (Lord Jesus) is]
Why do many believers preach foolish doctrines that the Most-High-God was the one who came down in human form?
Why then Do many Christians equate Jesus with God?
(I demand an answer)
Cc: OLAADEGBU Jesusjnr Anas09 MuttleyLaff solite3 blueAgent

Do not confuse others!!!!! As many atheist have been discouraged from seeing the light through this only. Churches have been divided even Christians have been divided.
God is the Father,
God is the holy spirit, and
God is IN the Son.

Stop propagating heresy.
You are totally wrong, trinity was established from the bible.

solite3:
Stop propagating heresy.
You are totally wrong, trinity was established from the bible.

Biblical references sir....

Anybody with an answer....
Was it the Most-High-God that came down from heaven to die for our sins??

Why do many Christians equate Jesus with God?
(I never said this is wrong. All I want is an answer)

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Note that He said in the 'name' of the father, Son and Holy ghost not 'names' which means they are one being.

Jesus has been the Son of God from eternity,

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.



The word was with God, denoting distinct identity from the father Son and Holy ghost.

The trinity of God is seen from Genesis

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said Let us create man in our image
Compare
And then we read that God created man in his image.
Meaning the 'us' there is plurality of persons but one God.

These and many more proves that God actually is a plurality of persons.


Matthew 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Do you see the trinity in the above verse?
1. Jesus been baptise
2. The Holy Spirit descending on Jesus like a dove
3. A voice representing the father talking from heaven.


Jesus prayed to the father and addresses the father as a separate person

Jesus talk of the Holy Spirit as a seprate person not a false distinct from the Father who will come to fill the believer.

John 12:28
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Jesus is not a half God half human but fully God fully human united together but not mixed. His position as the Son of the Father is from eternity.

God gave us his Son meaning Jesus was already the Son even before his incarnation.

The summary is it all is that God is a trinue being meaning a being that exist in three perons.
The implication of this is that God acts in three persons or exist in three consciousness but aware of his unity as one Being.

I stand in no different position @solite3... What I was indicating was that the personality isn't one. Many Christian proclaimed that Jesus is not a different person from the most-high-God and thus it is the same person that was crucified. Where have I then preached heresies
How is the holy spirit a separate person from God?

Blabbermouth:
I stand in no different position @solite3... What I was indicating was that the personality isn't one. Many Christian proclaimed that Jesus is not a different person from the most-high-God and thus it is the same person that was crucified. Where have I then preached heresies
How is the holy spirit a separate person from God?

The holy Spirit is a separate person from both the father and the Son,

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jesus refers to The Holy Spirit as a person whom the Father would said. The person that was sent was not Jesus or the Father but the holy Spirit.
The holy Spirit is said to be grieved, he speaks and shows every characteristic of a person but distinct from God.
He is the only Person of the God head who is actively on earth today in the beliver.

solite3:

The holy Spirit is a separate person from both the father and the Son,

The holy Spirit is said to be grieved, he speaks and shows every characteristic of a person but distinct from God.
He is the only Person of the God head who is actively on earth today in the beliver.

Your definition of "person" is actually a problem here...
I would want to express something about the "Holy spirit" but I will hold that for now.
Do we both agree that Jesus and the Most High God are two separate person but one spirit?

Blabbermouth:

Your definition of "person" is actually a problem here...
I would want to express something about the "Holy spirit" but I will hold that for now.
Do we both agree that Jesus and the Most High God are two separate person but one in spirit?

scripture pls.
You are talking from your head not the written word

Blabbermouth:
The Enlightenment II {Is Christ God?}
Look out and search, read the bible and meditate on it. Jesus declared it, the demons knew it, even the apostles showed it.
I am a bit rusty and I'm not really a fan of quoting bible verses but I am sure these are words of Christ and not mine.
Matthew 10:40"He that recieves you receives me, he that receiveth me receiveth HE THAT SENT ME".
Matthew 11:25 " I thank you FATHER, lord of heaven and earth, that you have......"
Matthew 10:33 "Whoever denies me before men, I will also deny before my FATHER who is in heaven.
Matthew 8:29 " What have you to do with us, O SON OF GOD"
Another one, was when Jesus was teaching and told those present that he hasn't come on his own accord but everything he hath done and is to do hath been of the FATHER".{Anyone that remembers the bible reference for this should please help me out with it}.....
He that hath the truth in him let him confirm that this are the words of Christ and that Christ was openly declaring that he wasn't our Heavenly father, He is the Son of the father.
He through propitiations has even bestowed the grace that we also may be Sons of the Most-High-God [Just as He (Lord Jesus) is]
Why do many believers preach foolish doctrines that the Most-High-God was the one who came down in human form?
Why then Do many Christians equate Jesus with God?
(I demand an answer)
Cc: OLAADEGBU Jesusjnr Anas09 MuttleyLaff solite3 blueAgent

Trinity is too much if a mystery to discuss with people who take the Bible to be a literal. Just forget it.

But, remember, if you die and in your mind you believe they are three person in one God, you will be termed an idolater, and won't be allowed into the kingdom of God.

God is One. Jesus is the manifestation of Jehovah. He is the Holy Spirit.

It will confuse you more if I begin to explain to you what He meant when he refered to YHWH as His father and Him being sent.

Just know that right now as we speak, Jesus is not a separate entity from YHWH in heaven. They are no two or three (God) personalities in heaven.

There's only One God abd His name is Jesus.

Blabbermouth:
The Jehovah witness body believes that Jesus Christ is not the Most-High-God while some other christian body believes that Jesus Christ is God himself. Who is right and who is wrong?
The answer is, NO ONE IS WRONG. It just depends on the basis from which you have stated your view.
Heb 1:8
But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom."
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD"
The above bible verses are one of the core reasons some Christian believe that Jesus Christ is actually God-The father.
THE ENLIGHTENMENT I {Who is Christ}
Out of the rib of man was the woman formed, so that in many likeness, she shall be like the Man. Out of the spirit was the word formed and of the word was Christ formed {made manifest as flesh and given an entity of his own}. Thus, Christ became an independent personality of his own.

Do you know what God saw in Christ? He saw His reflection, his exact imprint of nature and the radiance of His own Glory (Check out Heb 1:3) and for this , God was most pleased with him and he gave him the greatest honor of all. He begat Christ and made him his Son. And it was made established that Christ is the son of the Most-High-God. There is so much more to this, he that reads let him learn.
Well, let us shed more light...
On the keys......

True, I concur.

Blabbermouth:
Who then has an answer to this questions??
IF Jesus was God-The father;
1. When Jesus came to earth in flesh, who was directing the affairs in heaven? Or Was there still God in heaven when Jesus came to die for our sins?
2. Every prayers and reverences Jesus made while on earth, to whom was it directed to? Was it to himself?
{As Christians, do not confuse yourself with foolish doctrines. For you have only one teacher which is Christ. And remember Christ is the word of God (Bible itself). Therefore, anything that doesn't go in line with what the bible has stated is foolishness and poisonous to our maturity}

I have never seen trinitarians answer this questions.

Anas09:

Trinity is too much if a mystery to discuss with people who take the Bible to be a literal. Just forget it.

[/b]But, remember, if you die and in your mind you believe they are three person in one God, you will be termed an idolater, and won't be allowed into the kingdom of God.[b]

God is One. Jesus is the manifestation of Jehovah. He is the Holy Spirit.

It will confuse you more if I begin to explain to you what He meant when he refered to YHWH as His father and Him being sent.

Just know that right now as we speak, Jesus is not a separate entity from YHWH in heaven. They are no two or three (God) personalities in heaven.

There's only One God abd His name is Jesus.

Sis sincerely this is wrong. You said we shouldn't take the bible literally pls clarify.
The events in the bible are true and were recorded.

The bible should be the standard

blueAgent:



I have never seen trinitarians answer this questions.

If you understand what trinity is this is not even a question. By the way Jesus doesnt need to be in heaven to governer it.

The bible should be the satandard for your discourse nothing else

Blabbermouth:
It is not "God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit" it should rather be put as
"God the Father, God in the son,and God the holy spirit"....

Note: There is nothing like God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

I agree with you that Jesus came out from the father, as this can be proved with Bible verses and Jesus on words.

but the Holyspirit is not a God but the spirit of God, it is not a person distinct as the father and son are, but it is the spirit of God and his son which represents their presence,power, will, mind.

Note no where in the Bible are we told to worship or pray to the Holyspirit.

solite3:
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Note that He said in the 'name' of the father, Son and Holy ghost not 'names' which means they are one being.

Jesus has been the Son of God from eternity,

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.



The word was with God, denoting distinct identity from the father Son and Holy ghost.

The trinity of God is seen from Genesis

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said Let us create man in our image
Compare
And then we read that God created man in his image.
Meaning the 'us' there is plurality of persons but one God.

These and many more proves that God actually is a plurality of persons.


Matthew 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Do you see the trinity in the above verse?
1. Jesus been baptise
2. The Holy Spirit descending on Jesus like a dove
3. A voice representing the father talking from heaven.


Jesus prayed to the father and addresses the father as a separate person

Jesus talk of the Holy Spirit as a seprate person not a false distinct from the Father who will come to fill the believer.

John 12:28
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Jesus is not a half God half human but fully God fully human united together but not mixed. His position as the Son of the Father is from eternity.

God gave us his Son meaning Jesus was already the Son even before his incarnation.

The summary is it all is that God is a trinue being meaning a being that exist in three perons.
The implication of this is that God acts in three persons or exist in three consciousness but aware of his unity as one Being.

I cannot see any trinity here .

Only a Catholic will claim to see trinity were there is none becos it is their creation.

solite3:

Sis sincerely this is wrong. You said we shouldn't take the bible literally pls clarify.
The events in the bible are true and were recorded.

The bible should be the standard

I didn't say the event in the Bible are not true bros. This has nothing to do with events, Trinity is a Concept not an event.

Rapture is a Concept not an event.

The Church is a Concept and not an event.

Baptism is a Concept and not an event.

There are a lot of concepts and principles in the Bible that are far beyond what you know and take to mean literally.

Every teaching, (take the Ten Commandments for example), is not Just literal as they seen, they are deeper than just 'thou shall nots'

The Distinction of the Holy Spirit from the Father and from his Son, Jesus Christ.
The Person and Work of The Holy Spirit

We have seen thus far that the Holy Spirit is a Person and a Divine Person. And now another question arises, Is He as a Person separate and distinct from the Father and from the Son? One who carefully studies the New Testament statements cannot but discover that beyond a question He is. We read in Luke iii.21, 22, "Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art My beloved Son; in Thee I am well pleased." Here the clearest possible distinction is drawn between Jesus Christ, who was on earth, and the Father who spoke to Him from heaven as one person speaks to another person, and the Holy Spirit who descended in a bodily form as a dove from the Father, who was speaking, to the Son, to whom He was speaking, and rested upon the Son as a Person separate and distinct from Himself. We see a clear distinction drawn between the name of the Father and that of the Son and that of the Holy Spirit in Matt, xxviii.19, where we read, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The distinction of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son comes out again with exceeding clearness in John xiv.16. Here we read, "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever." Here we see the one Person, the Son, praying to another Person, the Father, and the Father to whom He prays giving another Person, another Comforter, in answer to the prayer of the second Person, the Son. If words mean anything, and certainly in the Bible they mean what they say, there can be no mistaking it, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are three distinct and separate Persons.
Again in John xvi.7, a clear distinction is drawn between Jesus who goes away to the Father and the Holy Spirit who comes from the Father to take His place. Jesus says, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you." A similar distinction is drawn in Acts ii.33, where we read, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." In this passage, the clearest possible distinction is drawn between the Son exalted to the right hand of the Father and the Father to whose right hand He is exalted, and the Holy Spirit whom the Son receives from the Father and sheds forth upon the Church.

To sum it all up, again and again the Bible draws the clearest possible distinction between the three Persons, the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son. They are three separate personalities, having mutual relations to one another, acting upon one another, speaking of or to one another, applying the pronouns of the second and third persons to one another.

Anas09:

I didn't say the event in the Bible are not true bros. This has nothing to do with events, Trinity is a Concept not an event.

Rapture is a Concept not an event.

The Church is a Concept and not an event.

Baptism is a Concept and not an event.

There are a lot of concepts and principles in the Bible that are far beyond what you know and take to mean literally.

Every teaching, (take the Ten Commandments for example), is not Just literal as they seen, they are deeper than just 'thou shall nots'

what do you mean deeper?
These are things revealed in the bible understanding these things comes through prayerful study of the bible not assumptions. Whatever God reveals is through his written word.
You claimed anyone who believes God is three persons in one is an idolater without even trying to see the bible bible for yourself. Sis these things are in the bible not hidden.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

blueAgent:



Note: There is nothing like God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

I agree with you that Jesus came out from the father, as this can be proved with Bible verses and Jesus on words.

but the Holyspirit is not a God but the spirit of God, it is not a person distinct as the father and son are, but it is the spirit of God and his son which represents their presence,power, will, mind.

Note no where in the Bible are we told to worship or pray to the Holyspirit.

To a deep extent, you are right about the holy spirit!!!! I just haven't gotten to explaining that aspect....
God THE SPIRIT.. Doesn't mean the spirit is separate, it's just to say that God (is still) the holy spirit as the spirit is HIS(possessive pronoun).. Just as your mind is still YOU "blueAgent" and not a separate person of it's own. The mind is your physical spirit, the software of your physical form . Therefore you are your mind, and YOU and your mind are one (same person).
GOD THE FATHER... The bible tells us times without numbers that God is our heavenly father and our Father is God. So in simple sentence; God (is) the father.
In this way, I am right but is this how everyone sees the Trinity
Thus the title of this thread: The trinity confusion.
Do you now concur with this;
God is the Father, God is the spirit, and God is in the Son..

blueAgent:



Note: There is nothing like God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

I agree with you that Jesus came out from the father, as this can be proved with Bible verses and Jesus on words.

but the Holyspirit is not a God but the spirit of God, it is not a person distinct as the father and son are, but it is the spirit of God and his son which represents their presence,power, will, mind.

Note no where in the Bible are we told to worship or pray to the Holyspirit.

Hear yourself, the Holy Spirit is not God but the presence, power and will of God totally head knowledge not biblical.

The problem with this generation is that you dont want sound doctrine fom the bible, you only want motivational preaching, head knowledge, visions and erroneous unbiblical revelation.

solite3:
scripture pls.
You are talking from your head not the written word

Jesus: I and my father are one...
I- first person
My father- Second person
Thus different personality, "Are One" yet the same.
This is from the scripture, Do you agree with it? If you do, Good!!! Now answer this question
"How can two different person be one?"

Anas09:


It will confuse you more if I begin to explain to you what He meant when he refered to YHWH as His father and Him being sent.

Just know that right now as we speak, Jesus is not a separate entity from YHWH in heaven. They are no two or three (God) personalities in heaven.

There's only One God abd His name is Jesus.

Read the chapter 1 of Hebrews top to bottom. When you are done, you will erase all you've said..

solite3:
The problem with this generation is that you dont want sound doctrine fom the bible, you only want motivational preaching, head knowledge, visions and erroneous unbiblical revelation.

Therefore the need to learn from eachother and using the bible as our reference..
We agree Jesus and God are different persons but one. Now, I want to enlighten us on something thus the question... "How can two persons be the same?"