macof:
. Youtube is the worst of all
I have run many out of nairaland

I actually would enjoy the fantastic stories if they were not trying to replace their fantasy with history. It is so sickening to see that they actually mean it to the bone
They have been psychologically sired to the middle east

@tao11 how did you even realise there was something off with this sort of claims?

Lol.
1st I realized how quite easy it is to beat, stretch, and twist almost any word in almost any language to mean and sound like whatever we want them to mean and sound like.

For example, I can beat, stretch, and twist the following English words viz. wore, iron, concern, me, our, inner, etc. to mean the following Yoruba words viz. wo, irin, kan, emi, awa, inu, etc. respectively.

I would then claim that the Yorubas are descended from Englishmen (or vice versa) --- if I have such agenda --- on the basis of such kindergaten methods.

2nd, I came across the work of a Yoruba linguist who taught in Japan and returned with many examples, in the Japanese language, of such words (legit this time around).

Yet our Yoruba people won't clutch at Japan as our roots. I realized quickly that the reason why they won't cluth in this case is simply because of the absence of any influential Japanese religion in Yorubaland.

It became too obvious that religion is the key driving-force behind most of these interesting claims.

Our people are trying to make sense of (i.e. reconcile) both their African heritage and their foreign religion just to heave some sigh of relief.

I noticed the Christian-Yoruba among such people often leans towards a Hebrew origin, while the Muslim-Yoruba among them often leans towards a Meccan origin.

3rd I know some Arabic myself, and this allows me access to the earliest, most authoritative, and most comprehensive bilingual Arabic-English lexicon (i.e. Lane's Lexicon) which is based on medieval Arabic dictionaries and classical Arabic vocabularies.

So, this helps me to have a good laugh at the claims people make with Arabic words, and to some extent Hebrew words, as the two languages are sister languages with so many cognates.

Most of the Arabic words (or even Hebrew or Egyptian words) which they often claim have so and so meaning usually do not have those meanings, and often times the supposed Arabic or Egyptian words do not even exist altogether.

RamessesIV:
Am new to nairaland and this thread just shows me why we need to fund archealogy and most especially etymology,lol I can literally look fot any culture i like looking for similar spellings and say they are the same,��� this is what people call fact,go to any history class with this in a credible university and you will look like a dunch,is not even Hebrew but Arab,the Arab ancestry was gotten from Yoruba muslims recorded by samuel johson,is not even the most common,people just lash on to it,cause is better to tie their tribe to a land of their religion,lol funny enough even Igbo's claim Hebrew ancestry funny thing is the same thing look for similar words and claim they have the same meaning and boom!!!! We have middle eastern ancestry

You know what's even funnier?

Reverend Samuel Johnson (who is not even a historian to begin with) didn't even get the Arab ancestry thing from a Yoruba.

He got it from a Hausa source --- from the then Sultan of Sokoto (Sultan Bello) through captain Hugh Clapperton's "The Records".

Prior to these sources, such an account is alien to and unheard of among the Yorubas.

You may refer to my comment at the link below to have an idea of some of the influences on the Johnsonian hypothesis:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/14#87905826

Not all arabs thought,the ishmaelite narrative come from arabic-islamic-jewish tradition,note judaism influenced islam and arabism as it is today owes to island,well the ishmaelite arab werr arabic people who occupied west and northern arabia,arabs had a very poor documented history before islam,as they were various tribes

macof:
You didn't address so many points and just make excuses and jump to more claims

OK, now you have said you never claimed the Yoruba are semitic but rather the semitic people derived their culture, traditions and language from the Yoruba who used to live in the middle East long before the supposed time of Abraham
That should put the Yoruba presence in that region to earlier than 2000BC
Never forget this, because I know you suck at chronology

How come the studies on semitic culture and language hasn't been found to descend from or be influenced by the Yoruba?
The semitic people have had a writting culture for over 4000 years, meaning they possessed the ability to retain history better than civilizations without writing culture
One major reason silly people are quick to conclude that Africa had no history

Now let's say ok, Yoruba who civilized the semitic people, left them and went down to West Africa
Somehow they lost the writing culture of the middle East?
I would have said they also lost their language but you claim Yoruba is still an Afro-asiatic language.. So oK

You used the example of afro descendants in the americas and asked how do we know they are really afro descendants?
Well first thing is that there are records of it from 3 continents
1. Africa where they came from
2. Europe who was involved in their transportation
3. America where they arrived

And no evidence exists to debunk these records
But evidence exists to support them

Now my further questions are
What records from Yorùbáland exist and what records from the middle exist.. That state Yoruba were in the middle East? Under what names were the Yoruba called in the middle East? because we know the Yoruba never had a single name to refer to all speakers of the Yoruba language so surely the Yoruba were not a unified group when they were in the middle East right?



I could easily just end this by asking you what your source for this "it is believed Yoruba are noahdic" and "Yoruba Language is proto-semitic".. But let's go on and analyse the whole post, I will ask you later

isn't Abraham a descendant of Noah according to Hebrew narratives?
I am unsure of what Arabs say
(@RamessesIV. Can you educate me on this as you would know more about this)

So logically Abrahamics are Noahdics too.

And earlier you said Arabs descended from Ad now you say they descended from Abraham
Why the inconsistencies? You don't get to shift argument like that what da heck

And don't tell me I'm mixing anything up, you lack consistency and all 4 of you (absoluteSuccess, olu317 and obalufon included) support each other but when you get called out and you have no come back, you switch to a new argument and leave your brothers in the cold.

wait what exactly are you doing? Are you seriously implying the black people of the americas are not African?
Because you need to be clear on that

But to address the question.. yes several enslaved Africans who were born in Africa and regained freedom mentioned their original names and described their homeland and family in Africa. And in some cases descendants of an enslaved African born retained information about their homeland like in the case of Kunta Kinte's descendants

For an enslaved people forced to lose their identity that is impressive....

Oludah Equiano, Cudjo Lewis, Ayuba Suleiman Diallo and Abdul-Rahman ibn Sori are only few examples
If you are interested in the topic of enslaved Africans go and get their biographies and autobiographies because I don't get why you even think this is comparable to your claim of yoruba originating from the middle East



Except Sigidi doesn't mean to "prostrate". It refers to a clay effigy, the very core nature of the word "sigidi" is the characteristic of the object not that people prostrate to it or sing to it or pour oil on it. The name has nothing to do with the actions people do with it


Furthermore, you would have to explain the evolution of the word Shigidi to Sujud and apply same method to many other words to get your desired Cognates



You don't concern yourself with genetics but you bragged about possessing sources that state Yoruba and bedoiuns share same haplogroup

Another change of argument

And the role of a priest is what? If not to hold knowledge of what he is a priest of
He is the priest of oduduwa yet you say his role is not to posses information about Oduduwa's origin?
Where do arokin get their information from if not from the priests and families themselves?
If an arokin comes and sings something he heard from someone else about my family in a bid to surprise me, so I can't tell the arokin that his informant is wrong?
Arokin are mere praise singers

Hausa,lol and I thought he got it from Yoruba Muslims who traded with berbers,lol all this connecting to east africa,to sudan,to egypt,to middle east I really don't get what people are looking for,sub-saharan africa is large and very diverse genetically is very possible our ancestors created indigenous culture,and as that shared similarity waist beads can be found down to dome places in east africa,did they develop independently,was there a migration,ohh is just modern trans-african cultural exchange These are kind of questions I like to ask,not everytime middle east,egypt,sudan ethiopia

TAO11:


You know what's even funnier?

Reverend Samuel Johnson (who is not even a historian to begin with) didn't even get the Arab ancestry thing from a Yoruba.

He got it from a Hausa source --- from the then Sultan of Sokoto (Sultan Bello) through captain Hugh Clapperton's "The Records".

Prior to these sources, such an account is alien to and unheard of among the Yorubas.

You may refer to my comment at the link below to have an idea of some of the influences on the Johnsonian hypothesis:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/14#87905826

The kaaba was not built by abraham that's islamic tradition,kaaba goes way back to the nabatean people of arabia,allah came into play when the qurasyh conquered mecca and their pantheon wheir installed,abraham is jewish,islam has jewish influence do the math.

MetaPhysical:


I am not sure you know what you are talking about.

Kaaba has always been called that name since its inception. In its original structure, built by Abraham, it was not a cube. Followup modifications and additions to the structure got it to the cube shape.

So did Abraham know at a future time, centuries after his death it will become cubic...and so figured it is best to call it Kaaba, a cube

They have entered quora small but those ones there are the ones mostly claiming north africa

macof:
. Youtube is the worst of all
I have run many out of nairaland

I actually would enjoy the fantastic stories if they were not trying to replace their fantasy with history. It is so sickening to see that they actually mean it to the bone
They have been psychologically sired to the middle east

@tao11 how did you even realise there was something off with this sort of claims?

Is really not about religion but the need to tie to foreigness,notice that middle east is close to sub-saharan africa,is not just middle east,from Sudan,Ethiopia,Egypt,maghreb.The middle east and sub-saharan africans have both historical and religious ties to it so that's why there's always a need to tie to it,to average nigeria is either mecca or isreal from their religious,to the educated and elightned is egypt,carthage,magreb,even south arabia,is not a coincidence afrocentrism focuses on proving sub-saharan ancestry of north africa and the middle east that have been allegely hidden by eurocentric,to me all this are just ways to turn themselves to other cultures some religion middle east,some popularity egypt,ethiopia

TAO11:


Lol.
1st I realized how quite easy it is to beat stretch, and twist almost any word in almost any language to mean and sound like what we want them to mean and sound like.

For example, I can beat, stretch, and twist the following English words viz. wore, iron, concern, me, our, inner, etc. to mean the following Yoruba words viz. wo, irin, kan, emi, awa, inu, etc. respectively.

I would then claim that the Yorubas are descended from Englishmen (or vice versa) --- if I have such agenda --- on the basis of such kindergaten methods.

2nd, I came across the work of a Yoruba linguist who taught in Japan and returned with many examples, in the Japanese language, of such words (legit this time around).

Yet our Yoruba people won't clutch at Japan as our roots. I realized quickly that the reason why they won't cluth in this case is simply because of the absence of any influential Japanese religion in Yorubaland.

It became too obvious that religion is the key driving-force behind most of these interesting claims.

Our people are trying to make sense of (i.e. reconcile) both their African heritage and their foreign religion just to heave some sigh of relief.

I noticed the Christian-Yoruba among such people often leans towards a Hebrew origin, while the Muslim-Yoruba among them often leans towards a Meccan origin.

3rd I know some Arabic myself, and this allows me access to the earliest, most authoritative, and most comprehensive bilingual Arabic-English lexicon (i.e. Lane's Lexicon) which is based on medieval Arabic dictionaries and classical Arabic vocabularies.

So, this helps me to have a good laugh at the claims people make with Arabic words, and to some extent Hebrew words, as the two languages are sister languages with so many cognates.

Most of the Arabic words (or even Hebrew or Egyptian words) which they claim to have so and so meaning usually do not have those meanings, and often times the supposed Arabic or Egyptian words do not even exist altogether.

macof:


What is your evidence that Kaaba means place of exaltation
Every dictionary gives the definition of Cube, Square

Don't run

Run ke?

You just like to hear yourself chirp sometimes.

What is the dictionary definition of Araba?

RamessesIV:
Is really not about religion but the need to tie to foreigness,notice that middle east is close to sub-saharan africa,is not just middle east,from Sudan,Ethiopia,Egypt,maghreb.The middle east and sub-saharan africans have both historiocal and religious ties to it so that's why there's always a need to tie to it,to average nigeria is either mecca or isreal from their religious,to the educated and elightned is egypt,carthage,magreb,even south arabia,is not a coincidence afrocentrism focuses on proving sub-saharan ancestry of north africa and the middle east that have been allegely hidden by eurocentric,to me all this are just ways to turn themselves to other cultures some religion middle east,some popularity egypt,ethiopia

Trust me religion plays a very central role.

People have read too much of Mecca, Isreal, Egypt (including Sudan), Abyssinia (Ethiopia) from the scriptures and have somehow unconciously internalized a certain core of those information as the first principles to proceed with.

If it was simply about foreigness (i.e. if we control for "religion" ), then you should have seen some of their roots theorists also claiming places like India, Japan, Australia, China, New Zealand, Korea, Kenya, or Somalia, etc.

But notice that these places which are conspicuously absent from the scriptures as holy (or antique) places are also similarly conspicuously absent from their theories.

Even those who left their foreign religions must have been unconsciosly shaped in some fashion by such religions of birth. That's how the human psyche is wired.

Obalufon:
Macof the Niger Congo advocate , Semitic or semolina .Yoruba history is beyond your comprehension.,.

He is a fraud!

He is trapped in his own Niger Congo advocacy and cant get out. Now he is trying to say I made a 180 turn from my position on day 1 of the thread.

He now admits that people can be linked via religious and spritual beliefs, independent of linguistic grouping. Can you imagine?

macof:
You didn't address so many points and just make excuses and jump to more claims

OK, now you have said you never claimed the Yoruba are semitic but rather the semitic people derived their culture, traditions and language from the Yoruba who used to live in the middle East long before the supposed time of Abraham
That should put the Yoruba presence in that region to earlier than 2000BC
Never forget this, because I know you suck at chronology

How come the studies on semitic culture and language hasn't been found to descend from or be influenced by the Yoruba?
The semitic people have had a writting culture for over 4000 years, meaning they possessed the ability to retain history better than civilizations without writing culture
One major reason silly people are quick to conclude that Africa had no history

Now let's say ok, Yoruba who civilized the semitic people, left them and went down to West Africa
Somehow they lost the writing culture of the middle East?
I would have said they also lost their language but you claim Yoruba is still an Afro-asiatic language.. So oK

You used the example of afro descendants in the americas and asked how do we know they are really afro descendants?
Well first thing is that there are records of it from 3 continents
1. Africa where they came from
2. Europe who was involved in their transportation
3. America where they arrived

And no evidence exists to debunk these records
But evidence exists to support them

Now my further questions are
What records from Yorùbáland exist and what records from the middle exist.. That state Yoruba were in the middle East? Under what names were the Yoruba called in the middle East? because we know the Yoruba never had a single name to refer to all speakers of the Yoruba language so surely the Yoruba were not a unified group when they were in the middle East right?



I could easily just end this by asking you what your source for this "it is believed Yoruba are noahdic" and "Yoruba Language is proto-semitic".. But let's go on and analyse the whole post, I will ask you later

isn't Abraham a descendant of Noah according to Hebrew narratives?
I am unsure of what Arabs say
(@RamessesIV. Can you educate me on this as you would know more about this)

So logically Abrahamics are Noahdics too.

And earlier you said Arabs descended from Ad now you say they descended from Abraham
Why the inconsistencies? You don't get to shift argument like that what da heck

And don't tell me I'm mixing anything up, you lack consistency and all 4 of you (absoluteSuccess, olu317 and obalufon included) support each other but when you get called out and you have no come back, you switch to a new argument and leave your brothers in the cold.

wait what exactly are you doing? Are you seriously implying the black people of the americas are not African?
Because you need to be clear on that

But to address the question.. yes several enslaved Africans who were born in Africa and regained freedom mentioned their original names and described their homeland and family in Africa. And in some cases descendants of an enslaved African born retained information about their homeland like in the case of Kunta Kinte's descendants

For an enslaved people forced to lose their identity that is impressive....

Oludah Equiano, Cudjo Lewis, Ayuba Suleiman Diallo and Abdul-Rahman ibn Sori are only few examples
If you are interested in the topic of enslaved Africans go and get their biographies and autobiographies because I don't get why you even think this is comparable to your claim of yoruba originating from the middle East



Except Sigidi doesn't mean to "prostrate". It refers to a clay effigy, the very core nature of the word "sigidi" is the characteristic of the object not that people prostrate to it or sing to it or pour oil on it. The name has nothing to do with the actions people do with it


Furthermore, you would have to explain the evolution of the word Shigidi to Sujud and apply same method to many other words to get your desired Cognates



You don't concern yourself with genetics but you bragged about possessing sources that state Yoruba and bedoiuns share same haplogroup

Another change of argument

And the role of a priest is what? If not to hold knowledge of what he is a priest of
He is the priest of oduduwa yet you say his role is not to posses information about Oduduwa's origin?
Where do arokin get their information from if not from the priests and families themselves?
If an arokin comes and sings something he heard from someone else about my family in a bid to surprise me, so I can't tell the arokin that his informant is wrong?
Arokin are mere praise singers

Please represent with orderliness. This is all jumbled up. I will answer everyone of your question but present it in order and possibly as separate posts.

You have some good questions there and I will answer them all.

RamessesIV:
OK OK let me review the supposed relations,first of the Kaaba means literally "cube",and oga that's not how etymology works Kaaba and kaabiyesi are not the same thing,different languages,they don't even sound the same,they are not even the same languages,these are just discrepencies twisted to fit a narrative,I can come up with lots of japanese words that are similar to my Edo language but that doesn't show a relation between the two cultures ����,funny enough they are yoruba words that were borrowed from Hausa and islam,again is not even Hebrew heritage it's arabic,mecca was In arabia,even the kaaba you mentioned was a shrine of worship fot various arab people in arabia and syria,and again islam there is no evidence of any middle eastern influence in Yoruba land aside islam or maybe berber traders,cause yorubas used arab looking sword.

Puerto Ricans practice Santeria. When a Puerto Rican says Oreca, he is meaning Orisha.
Yet Oreca (Hispanic) and Orisha (Yoruba) are not in same language?

Oreca is not a Niger Congo language. So are these people descended from Yoruba or not?

Some things should just not need academic thesis to make it acceptable.

�������� santeria is a Yoruba religion spread in the americas,do puerto riccans claim yoruba heritage Is like saying calling an igbo catholic italian cause they use latin ����,And hope you know we have afro-latinas these are the ones whose ancestors brought the religion and help it spread,again that's not how etymology works,Yoruba language is a language native again native to yoruba people and is has over 1 million speakers and is of the niger-congo language,hebrew/Arabic are semitic in the middle east there is no correlation,no history,not relation you can't compare with afro-latinas,and Africans Americans there is evidence factual evidence again etymology,etymology ����

MetaPhysical:


Puerto Ricans practice Santeria. When a Puerto Rican says Oreca, he is meaning Orisha.
Yet Oreca (Hispanic) and Orisha (Yoruba) are not in same language?

Oreca is not a Niger Congo language. So are these people descended from Yoruba or not?

Some things should just not need academic thesis to make it acceptable.

RamessesIV:
�������� santeria is a Yoruba religion spread in the americas,do puerto riccans claim yoruba heritage Is like saying calling an igbo catholic italian cause they use latin ����,And hope you know we have afro-latinas these are the ones whose ancestors brought the religion and help it spread,again that's not how etymology works,Yoruba language is a language native again native to yoruba people and is has over 1 million speakers and is of the niger-congo language,hebrew/Arabic are semitic in the middle east there is no correlation,no history,not relation you can't compare with afro-latinas,and Africans Americans there is evidence factual evidence again etymology,etymology ����

Which land in Yoruba practice Santeria, and how did you know it is Yoruba religion....what informed this? Remember there is nothing in Yoruba language called Santeria...it is a foreign term.

Very true,remember reading about egypt in book of bible stories,or being told in church how arabs are descendants from ishmeal due to his bastard lineage hence the war in the middle east ������,sometimes it really makes ms feel sad they are now teaching schools in the south east that they are descendants of ancient isrealitie,remember an african-american who tried to prove to me that Jesus was a black man,and ancient Arabs and jews were sub-saharans,supposedly since early humans migrated out of africa they were black people and some how some how they got whitenned,I used to take all these serious,till i meet one who argued online that Cleopatra was a black woman,(according to records she is of greek royal ancestry plotemies,that was when I realized is all about claiming and tieing to other cultures

TAO11:


Trust me religion plays a very central role.

People have read too much of Mecca, Isreal, Egypt (including Sudan), Abyssinia (Ethiopia) from the scriptures and have somehow unconciously internalized a certain core of those information as the first principles to proceed with.

If it was simply about foreigness (i.e. if we control for "religion" ), then you should have seen some of their roots theorists also claiming places like India, Japan, Australia, China, New Zealand, Korea, etc.

But notice that these places which are conspicuously absent from the scriptures as holy (or antique) places are also similarly conspicuously absent from their theories.

Even those who left their foreign religions must have been unconsciosly shaped in some fashion by such religions of birth. That's how the human psyche is wired.

MetaPhysical:


Please represent with orderliness. This is all jumbled up. I will answer everyone of your question but present it in order and possibly as separate posts.

You have some good questions there and I will answer them all.

More excuses
That was a response to every point you made.

If it appears jumbled up then that should tell you something about the post it was in response to

Santeria is a Yoruba religion that "spread in the americas" the america is "where it is practiced" "santeria again america",,Yoruba religion doesn't mean it must be from Yoruba land,Yoruba is not limited to south-west Nigeria again read up transaltantic slave trade
Santería developed among Afro-Cuban communities amid the Atlantic slave trade of the 16th to 19th centuries. It arose through the blending of the traditional religions brought to Cuba by "enslaved West Africans", the majority of them "Yoruba", and the Roman Catholic teachings of the Spanish colonialists who then controlled the island i hope you get how the "yoruba religion spread in america" again this fact,fact like you can go enter youtube and see for yourself lol again why are you bringing up African religions in the Americans lol you want to tie yourself so bad,Oga bring evidence he is bringing twisted words ������quote author=MetaPhysical post=88932527]

Which land in Yoruba practice Santeria, and how did you know it is Yoruba religion....what informed this? Remember there is nothing in Yoruba language called Santeria...it is a foreign term.
[/quote]

macof:

More excuses
That was a response to every point you made.

If it appears jumbled up then that should tell you something about the post it was in response to

My friend, stop all this your nonsense. You have been on this thread since day one and other people have moved past where they were at beginning of it....you remain stuck in the same state and position, not learning and not teaching knowledge.

Is Niger Congo the ultimate yardstick to trace Yoruba ancestry, yes or no? If you say yes, then apply it to quantify spanish and portuguese speaking people you earlier admitted are Yoruba by descent. Use "methodology" to position Portuguese and Spanish into Niger Congo and Kwa grouping.

MetaPhysical:


Puerto Ricans practice Santeria. When a Puerto Rican says Oreca, he is meaning Orisha.
Yet Oreca (Hispanic) and Orisha (Yoruba) are not in same language?

Oreca is not a Niger Congo language. So are these people descended from Yoruba or not?

Some things should just not need academic thesis to make it acceptable.

Yes they do that's why we have etymology,an etymologist will clearly tell you oricha is a latinzed spelling gotten from yoruba word orisha you see history,now show me the historical links to show the etymology between all the examples you have given You have yet to tell use where you got your defintion of kaaba from ohh But go on

RamessesIV:
Santeria is a Yoruba religion that "spread in the americas" the america is "where it is practiced" "santeria again america",,Yoruba religion doesn't mean it must be from Yoruba land,Yoruba is not limited to south-west Nigeria again read up transaltantic slave trade
Santería developed among Afro-Cuban communities amid the Atlantic slave trade of the 16th to 19th centuries. It arose through the blending of the traditional religions brought to Cuba by "enslaved West Africans", the majority of them "Yoruba", and the Roman Catholic teachings of the Spanish colonialists who then controlled the island i hope you get how the "yoruba religion spread in america" again this fact,fact like you can go enter youtube and see for yourself lol again why are you bringing up African religions in the Americans lol you want to tie yourself so bad,Oga bring evidence he is bringing twisted words ������quote author=MetaPhysical post=88932527]

Which land in Yoruba practice Santeria, and how did you know it is Yoruba religion....what informed this? Remember there is nothing in Yoruba language called Santeria...it is a foreign term.

My brother, abeg this is where I stop for now. We will resume again when you know what Yoruba religion is.

When you get caught you all try to wiggle out with some other nonsense. How hard is it to say where in Yorubaland Santeria is practiced. It is a yes or no.

We will continue sometime again. Sorry that I have to go, got things to do here.

Cheers!

Ad hominem,learning and teaching knowledge indeed,oga where did you get your translation from mecca from Lol all your supposed links have been debunked,again etymology etymology,read up the transatlantic slave trade ���������� that's is where is linkage,is it still there today is not "coincidence" recorded history,you have been derailing,and avoiding answers,your premier makes no sense meet a spanish,or portugese linguist and they will tell you this,again what is the link between the Yoruba language and semitic of the middle east aside your fake translation

MetaPhysical:


My friend, stop all this your nonsense. You have been on this thread since day one and other people have moved past where they were at beginning of it....you remain stuck in the same state and position, not learning and not teaching knowledge.

Is Niger Congo the ultimate yardstick to trace Yoruba ancestry, yes or no? If you say yes, then apply it to quantify spanish and portuguese speaking people you earlier admitted are Yoruba by descent. Use "methodology" to position Portuguese and Spanish into Niger Congo and Kwa grouping.

����keeping trying to obtuse,did you even read at all,I don't even get your point Oga show us your linkage between Yoruba language and semitic of middle east and stop beating around the bush,they have given you transatlantic slave trade history,genetics,culture religion,what else is your argument,the Santeria religion came from yoruba slaves again transatlantic slave trade stop trying to be obtuse

MetaPhysical:


My brother, abeg this is where I stop for now. We will resume again when you know what Yoruba religion is.

When you get caught you all try to wiggle out with some other nonsense. How hard is it to say where in Yorubaland Santeria is practiced. It is a yes or no.

We will continue sometime again. Sorry that I have to go, got things to do here.

Cheers!

Lol the guy is a guy joker,he is still arguing about Yoruba influence and religion in the Americans ����

macof:

More excuses
That was a response to every point you made.

If it appears jumbled up then that should tell you something about the post it was in response to

MetaPhysical:


He is a fraud!

He is trapped in his own Niger Congo advocacy and cant get out. Now he is trying to say I made a 180 turn from my position on day 1 of the thread.

He now admits that people can be linked via religious and spritual beliefs, independent of linguistic grouping. Can you imagine?

I am a fraud says the semi - illiterate who says to figure out Yoruba history you don't need academic principles and scholarly disciplines but a creative mind

When a person who has below average knowledge of yoruba language, traditions and history and same for that of the middle East but nonetheless tries to connect these two without any evidence but calls another who is involved in the study of the Yoruba both traditionally and academically a fraud
What irony

Where did I admit such to you?
And I thought you said linguistic groupings by scholars were wrong? Only your language grouping is correct. You claim Yoruba is Afro-asiatic not Niger-Congo so what is your interest with scholars linguistic groupings now if not just to make excuses?

I will repeat myself for the last time
1. There exists records of Afro descendants in the americas coming from Africa. We have names, dates and vivid details of their journey
2. Genetic studies reveal that afro descendants in the americas are indeed from Africa and its not just a mere statement but a fact
3. Linguistic groupings doesn't mean languages of different groups cannot be used by a single people or that a people cannot adopt a language from a different language group
I know you're not bright but come on. We are writing in English right now and even some with yoruba parents in Yorùbáland today don't speak Yoruba but English alone

So afro descendants can speak different languages from that of their homeland that doesn't mean the people are original speakers of Spanish or English or Portuguese
There exist however traces of African languages in their form of Portuguese, Spanish, French and English
African Words and Semantics carried into French, English, Portuguese and Spanish to form a creole (it wouldn't be called a creole if it was original to them)
Like Turkish people carried words into the turkic language they adopted after their switch from a Persian - related language

I literally have to tell you the most basic things

Your bid to use the model of African diaspora to further your Yoruba semitic movement is void of common sense
And also not consistent with your general argument
Because you argue that you have words to show Yoruba is not Niger-Congo but Afro-asiatic
Why then are you saying "people linked, independent of linguistic grouping"?

Your main argument is not that linguistic groupings are not valid, what's not valid according to you is the grouping of yoruba with other West African languages that have nothing to do with semitic people

Go back and answer my questions from my 3 previous posts that you ran away from

MetaPhysical:


My friend, stop all this your nonsense. You have been on this thread since day one and other people have moved past where they were at beginning of it....you remain stuck in the same state and position, not learning and not teaching knowledge.

Is Niger Congo the ultimate yardstick to trace Yoruba ancestry, yes or no? If you say yes, then apply it to quantify spanish and portuguese speaking people you earlier admitted are Yoruba by descent. Use "methodology" to position Portuguese and Spanish into Niger Congo and Kwa grouping.

learning what? So I should learn from you who makes things up from your ass and not from qualified, peer reviewed works from scholars?
I have asked you for evidence.. You have provided none and you say I should accept what you say because it is you a semi-illiterate with no training in the field that says it

You don't even think Yoruba is Niger-Congo so what's this
Go and answer my questions and stop running

Such a coward and dishonest illiterate. If you can't answer admit it and gtfoh

RamessesIV:
Lol the guy is a guy joker,he is still arguing about Yoruba influence and religion in the Americans ����

I'm beginning to think he actually thinks yorubas aren't in the americas and it's all a lie from the academic world as Yoruba's place as West African natives is a lie

Yoruba were noahdic, from their culture the culture of the Arabs and other semitic people of the near East was derived but Yoruba left the near East and migrated to west Africa at an unimaginable and unknowable time to fit in properly into their new home in West Africa and miraculously their Afro-asiatic language just suddenly developed Niger-Congo elements and lost the Afro-asiatic elements but is still Afro-asiatic because you know, some words like Akaba and Aramean = Oranmiyan still exist

TAO11:


Lol.
1st I realized how quite easy it is to beat stretch, and twist almost any word in almost any language to mean and sound like what we want them to mean and sound like.

For example, I can beat, stretch, and twist the following English words viz. wore, iron, concern, me, our, inner, etc. to mean the following Yoruba words viz. wo, irin, kan, emi, awa, inu, etc. respectively.

I would then claim that the Yorubas are descended from Englishmen (or vice versa) --- if I have such agenda --- on the basis of such kindergaten methods.

2nd, I came across the work of a Yoruba linguist who taught in Japan and returned with many examples, in the Japanese language, of such words (legit this time around).

Yet our Yoruba people won't clutch at Japan as our roots. I realized quickly that the reason why they won't cluth in this case is simply because of the absence of any influential Japanese religion in Yorubaland.

It became too obvious that religion is the key driving-force behind most of these interesting claims.

Our people are trying to make sense of (i.e. reconcile) both their African heritage and their foreign religion just to heave some sigh of relief.

I noticed the Christian-Yoruba among such people often leans towards a Hebrew origin, while the Muslim-Yoruba among them often leans towards a Meccan origin.

3rd I know some Arabic myself, and this allows me access to the earliest, most authoritative, and most comprehensive bilingual Arabic-English lexicon (i.e. Lane's Lexicon) which is based on medieval Arabic dictionaries and classical Arabic vocabularies.

So, this helps me to have a good laugh at the claims people make with Arabic words, and to some extent Hebrew words, as the two languages are sister languages with so many cognates.

Most of the Arabic words (or even Hebrew or Egyptian words) which they claim to have so and so meaning usually do not have those meanings, and often times the supposed Arabic or Egyptian words do not even exist altogether.

This is the thing

Those so called "Cognates" they keep bringing up are rubbish when you look at it properly
Either they don't mean what they say they mean or the word doesn't exist in one or the two languages being compared

For example he still hasn't addressed how he goofed by saying Kaaba means "place of exaltation"
Watch how he runs away from that

A nairalander @olaochi once dropped the Japanese angle to try to get them to think for once on the possibility that what they are doing can be done for any two unrelated people
They were sceptical over the Japanese angle and even infuriated but say "ema" is "iye" in Yoruba and they jubilate

At a point their words didn't have to look alike anymore, just same meaning was enough. Or they go to Igbo language take "okoro" and connect it with something in Hebrew and say yes! Yoruba are Hebrew
Same igbo they say has no connection with yoruba
Or the latest was to go to Edo and take "Odion" (Version of Taye) to connect claim this was sign of Edo being Esau (Edom) and Yoruba being Jacob

I've seen interesting things

macof:


This is the thing

Those so called "Cognates" they keep bringing up are rubbish when you look at it properly
Either they don't mean what they say they mean or the word doesn't exist in one or the two languages being compared

For example he still hasn't addressed how he goofed by saying Kaaba means "place of exaltation"
Watch how he runs away from that

A nairalander @olaochi once dropped the Japanese angle to try to get them to think for once on the possibility that what they are doing can be done for any two unrelated people
They were sceptical over the Japanese angle and even infuriated but say "ema" is "iye" in Yoruba and they jubilate

At a point their words didn't have to look alike anymore, just same meaning was enough. Or they go to Igbo language take "okoro" and connect it with something in Hebrew and say yes! Yoruba are Hebrew
Same igbo they say has no connection with yoruba
Or the latest was to go to Edo and take "Odion" (Version of Taye) to connect claim this was sign of Edo being Esau (Edom) and Yoruba being Jacob

I've seen interesting things

Those are actually a load of comedic stuffs. I'm not even kidding now.

I agree you've seen things on these threads!

macof:



Those so called "Cognates" they keep bringing up are rubbish when you look at it properly
Either they don't mean what they say they mean or the word doesn't exist in one or the two languages being compared

And the cognates I was referring to in that comment is between Arabic words and Hebrew words oo.

Lol he called it "coincidence" and "similiarties" lol the "ajayi crowther" "da rocha family" even voodoo these are wide known influence of yoruba-americanos in nigeria yet someone is putting side by side with speculations,this is what happens when our universities have poor finding,egyptologist and historians have debunked the story of isrealites used as slaves to build the pyramid,such a thing can't happen in nigeria,just imagine historians who consider that sungbo bilikisu is the burial ground of queen of sheba all the way from east africa ���

macof:

I'm beginning to think he actually thinks yorubas aren't in the americas and it's all a lie from the academic world as Yoruba's place as West African natives is a lie

Yoruba were noahdic, from their culture the culture of the Arabs and other semitic people of the near East was derived but Yoruba left the near East and migrated to west Africa at an unimaginable and unknowable time to fit in properly into their new home in West Africa and miraculously their Afro-asiatic language just suddenly developed Niger-Congo elements and lost the Afro-asiatic elements but is still Afro-asiatic because you know, some words like Akaba and Aramean = Oranmiyan still exist

RamessesIV:
Lol he called it "coincidence" and "similiarties" lol the "ajayi crowther" "da rocha family" even voodoo these are wide known influence of yoruba-americanos in nigeria yet someone is putting side by side with speculations,this is what happens when our universities have poor finding,egyptologist and historians have debunked the story of isrealites used as slaves to build the pyramid,such a thing can't happen in nigeria,just imagine historians who consider that sungbo bilikisu is the burial ground of queen of sheba all the way from east africa ���

RamesseIV?? you need to be a yoruba man or woman to understand our thought process....We always recreate our history anywhere we find our self ..it happened in south american... is east africa too far to you? Ijebu claim they migrated from waddai Sudan ..They having a tomb of sheba is monument for her remembrance ..Ile- Ife is considered the source of mankind ..We have our own garden of eden in ile-ife .. Also gate way to heaven is in ile-ife , History of great flood and ark of Noah ..Replica of tower of babel history how God change our tongue ,,History of giants and prehuman human history spirit world before we acquire flesh to be come human..

macof:

More excuses
That was a response to every point you made.

If it appears jumbled up then that should tell you something about the post it was in response to

Stop that Niger congo shit Macof, word used my your oppressors whites race to categorize their colony .Whites don't know anything about us they just use approximity address like Niger and congo .. Upper quinea low Guniea to classify us , go and read books by African scholars Macof ..Cheik Anta Diop