Obalufon:
ADA is symbol of Oranmiyan Symbol of authority ..IDA ORANMIYAN

Ok, you have to prove it,

With written document or archeological evidence

I wont. Just swallow what you are saying just like that na

gregyboy:


Ok, you have to prove it,

With written document or archeological evidence

I wont. Just swallow what you are saying just like that na

1st evidence:
---------------------
Your Facebook attachment claims that "Ada" was introduced to the Edos by Ogiso Ere --- the 2nd Ogiso.

However, historical scholarship already makes it clear that Ogiso Ere came to Edo land as an emissary from Ile-Ife. (See 1st attachment for reference).

In the light of this (and going by your own Facebook attachment) "ADA" was introduced to the Edos from Ere's home country --- that is, from Ile-Ife.

2nd evidence:
----------------------
We read about Oranmiyan's "ADA" in one of Professor R.C.C. Law's works as follows:

"For example, when a new Alafin, or king, of Oyo was installed, the sword which was believed to have belonged to Oranyan, the son of Oduduwa who founded the Oyo dynasty, was sent to Ile Ife for reconsecration before being used in the ceremony.*"

Reference:
R.C.C. Law, "The Heritage of Oduduwa", The Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2 (1973), pp.210-211.

3rd evidence:
---------------------
We read again about the "ADA" as being sent from Ife in one of Professor S.P. Blier's works as follows:

"In Oyo and Ekiti the custom that the state sword and other materials were sent to the new king from Ife offers support for this thesis."

Reference
S.P. Blier, Kings, Crowns, and Rights of Succession", The Art Bulletin, LXVII. 3 (1985): , LXVII, 3, p.398.

4th evidence:
---------------------
Refere to the 2nd and 3rd attachments below to see an actual use of an antique ADA in Ife itself, during the reigns before and after the Ooni shown in your Facebook attachment.

cc: Obalufon

I want to avoid having writings like this scattered all over the place. When I need in future I know to come to just one thread.

The sound "du" is both spiritual and phenomenal. It can be combined in many ways to express ideas. It is never a stand alone, always in a combination. If it occurs alone anywhere it is informal, meaning other parts combined with it were stripped off to give softness in its expression.

Why is it spiritual?
There are different types of clay. A particular type that existed in primordial beginning is the "du" type. It is hard!

To soften and make it pliable for construct it was put into "m", an equivalently spiritual primordial water with flow (rhythym).

The "Dum" product thus became the first man, according to creation story.
This man history called Adam. In Yoruba spirituality he is called Odumila. His cult is called Adimu or Adamu.


Why is it phenomenal?
The color of that primordial "du" was the original black. Its essence is parceled into human consciousness so that we are constantly in awe of its organic state and purity. Humans will always yearn to return to it....to reunite and concile with that beginning.

A desire for reunification to the "du" is given context in various aspects of doctrines for social evolution. As we progress forward in time and newness, we remain attached to "du" and wish that our evolution will land us back to that pure organic beginning.


"Eve" is a principal identity. From it derivatives were created - Life, Love, Live, and so on.

Eve is actually Efe! Eve is also the polar opposite of Dum. While "dum" consist of clay and water, "eve" consist of fire and air. Each exist as a separate creation. When the two energies combine a new creation is produced and we call this emerging product "Life".

So the ground zero, the centerpiece where energies of creation combine to produce Life....we call Ile Ife!

Gelede, the Yoruba masquerade celebrates the essence of feminine energy. One of the masquerades of Gelede is the Efe.

------------------------------------------------------
Break
-------------------------------------------------------

Ile Ife has an indigeneous people and a migrant people.

The indigeneous people possessed the "gn" consciousness. The migrants possessed the "du" consciousness.

The natural colors of the indigeneous was red (crimson). For the migrants it was blue (indigo).

Ile Ife was not an indigeneous name, the migrants brought that name with them when they settled into the Niger-Benue valley. Old Ile Ife was on the bank of River Niger. The new Ife was a relocation.

Ogun was an indigeneous deity and the principal god and protector of Niger-Benue civilization.

The rulers of the Niger Benue civilizations and the migrants from Afro Asia began a new partnership of conquest and dynastic ruling in Old Ife.

The indigeneous deity worship was a synergy with the belief system of the migrants, who were mostly driven out of Afro Asia due to political and religious tumults. Therefore a hybrid worship and integration of cult practices evolved.


Amongst the indigenous of Niger-Benue you will see words like "ogun", "igunu", "ginua", "ogene", "ogoni", "gona", "gana", and so on. They all derived from Ogun the ancestral deity of Old Ife, and the protector of iron mining, a primary mineral resource in the valley.

The Niger-Benue valley has red clay, opposed to "du" of the migrants. Their red clay is the "gn" consciousness.

This consciousness gave formation to the prominence of color red in their social affairs. The kings of "gn" consciousness wear red hats or crowns. They and their priests wear red robes in official engagements.


I will end this here. Some other time I will discuss Oduduwa and Mecca.

That which is in heaven is "orunmila"
That which is earthly is "odumila".
That which sorrounds is "Efe"
That which is beneath is "Ogun"

....Ela l'oro!
Ela, Ila and Allah are same!


Nobody mines a resource underneath without first consulting Ogun.

While odumila is resourceful, Efe is nurturing, and orunmila sustains.

greyboy after coronation of OBA of Benin or when new Oba is installed in Benin kingdom why do they come to ile-ife Ask your chiefs and elders for the reason behind their visit

They were various berber kingdoms,some were already hellnized,some were romanized,tunisia was already christian before arabs came and played great roles in early christianity,due to arab conquest islam spread with it arabization just like egypt and sudan,even somalians are now claiming "Arab"
"Arab culture" this is the culture of Arab and the Islamic faith,if Hausas had gotten islam through arab conquest they will be arabs today just like the nubians in sudan,majority of the middle east ara arabized people.

MetaPhysical:


You said Arabized culturally.

What is Arab culture, and before its creation what was the culture of the area? Something preceeded Arab in that area. What was it?

Footprint of time indeed���� the etymology dont add up niger-congo language of west Africa and Semitic language of the middle east lol how do they relate

MetaPhysical:


I say follow the footprint in the sand of time.

What study and research have you done or contributions that qualify your voice of opposition.

You cant just step into a 2 or three yr old thread and speak unguardedly. Give us your input first.....qualify your view on the subject so we know who we are talking to.

RamessesIV:
Footprint of time indeed���� the etymology dont add up niger-congo language of west Africa and Semitic language of the middle east lol how do they relate

It is said that enslaved Yorubas took our cults with them and supplant it in Brazil, in Cuba, in Puerto Rico.

The event of 18th to 19th century.

Yoruba did not know we had people in these places. We did not have written record of people sold or their destination. When they arrived on other side their Yoruba names, language and tribes were stripped. They learnt and spoke a new language completely unrelated to the one you call Niger Congo.

Can you say there is relationship between Niger Congo Yoruba and Latin language - Portuguese, Spanish? There is none. Yet you cannot deny those people are Yoruba when you hear them use words like Babaluaye, Orica, Orixa, Chango, Alafia, Ache, Yemoja in spiritual worship. Are these words coincidences?

Since we had no written record of them and our language is not related , how then did we connect them to us? Can you explain this?

RamessesIV:
They were various berber kingdoms,some were already hellnized,some were romanized,tunisia was already christian before arabs came and played great roles in early christianity,due to arab conquest islam spread with it arabization just like egypt and sudan,even somalians are now claiming "Arab"
"Arab culture" this is the culture of Arab and the Islamic faith,if Hausas had gotten islam through arab conquest they will be arabs today just like the nubians in sudan,majority of the middle east ara arabized people.

This response is inaccurate.

Canaanites were the pre-Arab occupiers. Bedouins (Bedu) were the indigeneous people of Mecca and its sorroundings as well the land later known as Arabia.

The progenitor of Arab was Ad. From Ad came Yarib who founded the Arab clans.

Many of the customs in Arab culture were copied from Bedouins. Many of the worship and rituals in Arab were copied from Canaanites. Their philosophy of a supreme being and deity worship of 360 gods was introduced via Orisha, Irubo of the Yoruba Canaanites. The center of that cult worship is the Kaaba.

Even after Islam came to them, traces of Yoruba rituals is found in the new religion. This is heavy in the Hajj rituals, beginning with the dress mode in white loins, shaving of head for men, circumambulation, kissing of the black stone, and so on.

������

First of all there is recorded accounts of the yoruba slave trade stories of the slave trade still exist in nigeria even though is not taught in school,there is a well know knowledge that yoruba slaves kept some of their cultures and could trace their lineage everheard of slave returnees "ajayi crowther" "Da rocha",The yoruba language used in the america is still similar to the one in nigeria,infact pure yoruba is used during liturgy in Yoruba religions used in the america,and again they learnt new language same way north african use arabic language it doesn't suddenly erase the Berber history and ancestry the history is still there same way it doesn't erase that most of them came west and central africa,yes many can't tell exactly where they came from but lot's of them can,there is a reason they are afro-brazilians,african-americans,afro-latinas����
and then there is genetics,recorded history even surviving culture to show connection between say Santeria in caribbean with orisha of lagos,you can't compare with made up connections between sub-saharan africa and the levant,

MetaPhysical:


It is said that enslaved Yorubas took our cults with them and supplant it in Brazil, in Cuba, in Puerto Rico.

The event of 18th to 19th century.

Yoruba did not know we had people in these places. We did not have written record of people sold or their destination. When they arrived on other side their Yoruba names, language and tribes were stripped. They learnt and spoke a new language completely unrelated to the one you call Niger Congo.

Can you say there is relationship between Niger Congo Yoruba and Latin language - Portuguese, Spanish? There is none. Yet you cannot deny those people are Yoruba when you hear them use words like Babaluaye, Orica, Orixa, Chango, Alafia, Ache, Yemoja in spiritual worship. Are these words coincidences?

Since we had no written record of them and our language is not related , how then did we connect them to us? Can you explain this?

Canaanites were pre arabic and jewish people who occupied the levant,is
like saying greeks came before roman doesn't change romans exist

Traces? No credible evidence,no historical evidence,no etymological linkage between the two,no credible archeological evidence that Yoruba religion was influenced by pagan arabic aside some stories this is not a new thing I can list other cultures that have christian and islamic influence and claim middle eastern ancestry most of this claims you can't even bring it before historians they will laugh at you

MetaPhysical:


This response is inaccurate.

Canaanites were the pre-Arab occupiers. Bedouins (Bedu) were the indigeneous people of Mecca and its sorroundings as well the land later known as Arabia.

The progenitor of Arab was Ad. From Ad came Yarib who founded the Arab clans.

Many of the customs in Arab culture were copied from Bedouins. Many of the worship and rituals in Arab were copied from Canaanites. Their philosophy of a supreme being and deity worship of 360 gods was introduced via Orisha, Irubo of the Yoruba Canaanites. The center of that cult worship is the Kaaba.

Even after Islam came to them, traces of Yoruba rituals is found in the new religion. This is heavy in the Hajj rituals, beginning with the dress mode in white loins, shaving of head for men, circumambulation, kissing of the black stone, and so on.

RamessesIV:
They were various berber kingdoms,some were already hellnized,some were romanized,tunisia was already christian before arabs came and played great roles in early christianity,due to arab conquest islam spread with it arabization just like egypt and sudan,even somalians are now claiming "Arab"
"Arab culture" this is the culture of Arab and the Islamic faith,if Hausas had gotten islam through arab conquest they will be arabs today just like the nubians in sudan,majority of the middle east ara arabized people.

Is Oduduwa from the middle east

MetaPhysical:


It is said that enslaved Yorubas took our cults with them and supplant it in Brazil, in Cuba, in Puerto Rico.

The event of 18th to 19th century.

Yoruba did not know we had people in these places. We did not have written record of people sold or their destination. When they arrived on other side their Yoruba names, language and tribes were stripped. They learnt and spoke a new language completely unrelated to the one you call Niger Congo.

Can you say there is relationship between Niger Congo Yoruba and Latin language - Portuguese, Spanish? There is none. Yet you cannot deny those people are Yoruba when you hear them use words like Babaluaye, Orica, Orixa, Chango, Alafia, Ache, Yemoja in spiritual worship. Are these words coincidences?

Since we had no written record of them and our language is not related , how then did we connect them to us? Can you explain this?

Lmao this is funny and sad at the same time.


1. The afro descendants of the americas were taken as slaves, oppressed and deliberately made to lose much of their culture and identity

Were the semitic people who you claim migrated to West Africa to become the Yoruba enslaved, oppressed and forced to forget their homeland?

2. Despite slavery, among Afro descendants in the americas, there exist cultural and linguistic evidence.
From the traceable African influence on African American vernacular to Jamaican patois to Haitian Creole to Colombian Palenquero.


3.Genetic Analyses shows that like West and Central Africans the Afro descendants in the americas are of the E1b1a haplogroup

4. All over West Africa, local records exist of the existence of slave raiders, and the white man's role in transporting captured people away.
Why do you think Facial marks became necessary in Yorùbáland?
Even tales of the white man being "gbọmọ gbọmọ" was rife.
That Yoruba did not have a writing culture is no opportunity for you to twist things... There are other forms of records

5. Despite slavery we can see that not all former slaves lost their identity.
The afro Cubans for example were clear that many of them originated from the Olukumi country ie. Yorùbáland
And to prove it they still retained the worship of Yoruba deities

Please tell me the Semitic deities we have in Yorùbáland? Or the Islam or Christianity we have prior to recent interactions with Muslim traders and Christian missionaries.
Depending on when you claim these Arabs and Hebrews migrated to Yorùbáland


6. And if all this doesn't add up to you.. If you can only work with written records.. There are countless written records by Europeans on how many captured Africans they took from various coasts and where they dropped them off.



You are just obsessed with semitic people, all your excuses are frankly embarrassing

RamessesIV:
Canaanites were pre arabic and jewish people who occupied the levant,is
like saying greeks came before roman doesn't change romans exist

Traces? No credible evidence,no historical evidence,no etymological linkage between the two,no credible archeological evidence that Yoruba religion was influenced by pagan arabic aside some stories this is not a new thing I can list other cultures that have christian and islamic influence and claim middle eastern ancestry most of this claims you can't even bring it before historians they will laugh at you

Sir, you dodged my question.

MetaPhysical:


This response is inaccurate.

Canaanites were the pre-Arab occupiers. Bedouins (Bedu) were the indigeneous people of Mecca and its sorroundings as well the land later known as Arabia.

The progenitor of Arab was Ad. From Ad came Yarib who founded the Arab clans.

Many of the customs in Arab culture were copied from Bedouins. Many of the worship and rituals in Arab were copied from Canaanites. Their philosophy of a supreme being and deity worship of 360 gods was introduced via Orisha, Irubo of the Yoruba Canaanites. The center of that cult worship is the Kaaba.

Even after Islam came to them, traces of Yoruba rituals is found in the new religion. This is heavy in the Hajj rituals, beginning with the dress mode in white loins, shaving of head for men, circumambulation, kissing of the black stone, and so on.

Oh boy

gregyboy:



Is Oduduwa from the middle east

Capital No.

That's like asking if George Washington was from East Asia

author=macof post=88914249]

Lmao this is funny and sad at the same time.

[s]1. The afro descendants of the americas were taken as slaves, oppressed and deliberately made to lose much of their culture and identity [/s]

Were the semitic people who you claim migrated to West Africa to become the Yoruba enslaved, oppressed and forced to forget their homeland?

Don't inject sentiments of their psychological state in this exchange. It is agreed that the cross-Atlantic slaves suffered and were oppressed and stripped of their identity. That is not what my post was about. If you didnt understand it, read again and resubmit to show underatanding.

2. Despite slavery, among Afro descendants in the americas, there exist cultural and linguistic evidence.
From the traceable African influence on African American vernacular to Jamaican patois to Haitian Creole to Colombian Palenquero.

Are those traces not coincidence? How are those traces between Yoruba and Atlantic diaspora traced to be co-rooted but similar traces in Yoruba and Afro-Asiatic dismissed as coincidents and non-cognates? Is that not bias?

3.Genetic Analyses shows that like West and Central Africans the Afro descendants in the americas are of the E1b1a haplogroup

Similar studies show genetic link between Yoruba and Bedouin. I will be shocked if you don't know that....and I'd be more than happy to share if you dont already have the info.

4. All over West Africa, local records exist of the existence of slave raiders, and the white man's role in transporting captured people away.
Why do you think Facial marks became necessary in Yorùbáland?
Even tales of the white man being "gbọmọ gbọmọ" was rife.

When you say local, are you referring to oral traditions? We have oral traditions that link Yoruba to Mecca.

5. Despite slavery we can see that not all former slaves lost their identity.
The afro Cubans for example were clear that many of them originated from the Olukumi country ie. Yorùbáland
And to prove it they still retained the worship of Yoruba deities

Exactly! Thank you!
So its not about Niger Congo when we discuss Atlantic footprints but when the rituals of Yoruba is revealed to be a mirror with the practices and rituals in pre-Islamic Mecca then Niger Congo is thrown in.

You guys are frauds!

Please tell me the Semitic deities we have in Yorùbáland? Or the Islam or Christianity we have prior to recent interactions with Muslim traders and Christian missionaries.
Depending on when you claim these Arabs and Hebrews migrated to Yorùbáland

You are just obsessed with semitic people, all your excuses are frankly embarrassing

You continue to attach to the idea that Yoruba came out of Islam or a Abrahamic faith. This is your problem. You are stuck in that precept and refuse to shake it loose.

There are two possibilities -
1. Yoruba was an original inhabitant of Canaan and subsequently Mecca and subsequently Niger Benue (Old Ife).

2. Yoruba was originally Niger Benue (Old Ife) then Yemen then Mecca and returned via Sudan to Waddai to Dafur to Kukawa back to Niger Benue.

Which one is it?
We are tracing footprints to discover if 1 is the corrwct story or if its 2. Nothing is assumed or ruled out. Period!

macof:

Capital No.

That's like asking if George Washington was from East Asia

But your kings men believe so, i can bring works of historians who admit to this fact

MetaPhysical:


Don't inject sentiments of their psychological state in this exchange. It is agreed that the cross-Atlantic slaves suffered and were oppressed and stripped of their identity. That is not what my post was about. If you didnt understand it, read again and resubmit to show underatanding.

there's no reason not to bring that fact up. You talk about enslaved Africans and question their Africanness for whatever reason, be it as a joke or silly excuse to further your semitic obsession
The first fact to raise is that slavery is oppressive and entails a huge lose of identity

Again, I ask were the semitic people who you claim migrated to populate Yorùbáland enslaved and forced to forget their homeland?

Because you are the one comparing this to slavery

Are those traces not coincidence? How are those traces between Yoruba and Atlantic diaspora traced to be co-rooted but similar traces in Yoruba and Afro-Asiatic dismissed as coincidents and non-cognates? Is that not bias?









Exactly! Thank you!
So its not about Niger Congo when we discuss Atlantic footprints but when the rituals of Yoruba is revealed to be a mirror with the practices and rituals in pre-Islamic Mecca then Niger Congo is thrown in.

You guys are frauds!




You continue to attach to the idea that Yoruba came out of Islam or a Abrahamic faith. This is your problem. You are stuck in that precept and refuse to shake it loose.

There are two possibilities -
1. Yoruba was an original inhabitant of Canaan and subsequently Mecca and subsequently Niger Benue (Old Ife).

2. Yoruba was originally Niger Benue (Old Ife) then Yemen then Mecca and returned via Sudan to Waddai to Dafur to Kukawa back to Niger Benue.

Which one is it?
We are tracing footprints to discover if 1 is the corrwct story or if its 2. Nothing is assumed or ruled out. Period!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQBG_0ShlUs

Yes, because this must be a coincidence.

More sensible people know it cannot be a coincidence because this supports the records of African slaves in the americas

Where are the records of semitic slaves in Yorùbáland


Look, you don't have any similar anything with yoruba language and Afro-asiatic languages prior to the relatively recent establishment of trade and borrowing of Arabic words. And these borrowed words are very recognisable
There's even a list on nairaland


I can't deal with this level of ignorance and intellectual blindness to facts

Even the Yoruba deities are strictly West African.. So just what ritual or worship footprint?

Similar studies show genetic link between Yoruba and Bedouin. I will be shocked if you don't know that....and I'd be more than happy to share if you dont already have the info.




When you say local, are you referring to oral traditions? We have oral traditions that link Yoruba to Mecca.

Lmao
First of all Yoruba do not have their own personal haplogroup or something. It's a haplogroup shared amongst West and Central Africans.. With little traces in other regions
Same applies for Semitic people like the Bedouin you keep mentioning who are majorly of the J-haplogroup
So if you are looking for Yoruba and bedouin haplogroups. I think that research is already done
and to suggest Yoruba and bedouin share same haplogroup is to imply that all of Africa and western Asia share same haplogroup


Secondly, the mecca story is not traditional
I have been through this
The traditional narrative has always been Òkè-Ọ̀rà

Go to the Obadio

gregyboy:

But your kings men believe so, i can bring works of historians who admit to this fact

Which historian??

Moreover, how does that change the fact that your Oba Ewuare2 (just like his fathers) came to pay homage at Ile-Ife groves (i.e. Orun Oba Ado site and Oranmiyan groove) upon his ascension??


I'm about to start dealing with you here too.

What is your Yoruba name and your Italian name??

What question I already answered how north Africa became arabic,they were indigenious berber people what else again??

MetaPhysical:


Sir, you dodged my question.

You just want to tie to semitic so bad �������������

MetaPhysical:


Don't inject sentiments of their psychological state in this exchange. It is agreed that the cross-Atlantic slaves suffered and were oppressed and stripped of their identity. That is not what my post was about. If you didnt understand it, read again and resubmit to show underatanding.




"Coincidence" you mean recorded history from both africa and America Present day surviving culture in the America?? There is no similar these are recorded facts from different sources ���� even descendants of the transatlantic trade can narrate their history your ooni goes to brazil to meet the Yoruba community and you brush it off as "similar" "coincidence" ����
Are those traces not coincidence? How are those traces between Yoruba and Atlantic diaspora traced to be co-rooted but similar traces in Yoruba and Afro-Asiatic dismissed as coincidents and non-cognates? Is that not bias?



Which studies Which credible archealogies has shown genetic link between nigeria and the levant And please I mean credible research not some written article.
Similar studies show genetic link between Yoruba and Bedouin. I will be shocked if you don't know that....and I'd be more than happy to share if you dont already have the info.



Lol oral tradition that came from islam and was recorded by samuel johson When you say local, are you referring to oral traditions? We have oral traditions that link Yoruba to Mecca.



�����this one is denying his yoruba brothers,lol pre-islamic i can show cultural similarity with people in india,I can show you cultural similarities which Indonesian tribes that's not how history works.is niger-congo cause of etymology of language����� chai
Exactly! Thank you!
So its not about Niger Congo when we discuss Atlantic footprints but when the rituals of Yoruba is revealed to be a mirror with the practices and rituals in pre-Islamic Mecca then Niger Congo is thrown in.

You guys are frauds!



It is there is no evidence to show the belief of yoruba islamic heritage till recent times even till today it not even the most popular
You continue to attach to the idea that Yoruba came out of Islam or a Abrahamic faith. This is your problem. You are stuck in that precept and refuse to shake it loose.
Evidence of migration?? Archeological evidence?? Linkage through etymology?? Nope nah nah,some Yoruba Muslims said we came from mecca,and we have some "supposed" cultural practice with ancient Arabs so is highly plausible

There are two possibilities -
1. Yoruba was an original inhabitant of Canaan and subsequently Mecca and subsequently Niger Benue (Old Ife).

Yeah the old good Sudan if the middle east fails Sudan,Egypt or ethiopia is next 2. Yoruba was originally Niger Benue (Old Ife) then Yemen then Mecca and returned via Sudan to Waddai to Dafur to Kukawa back to Niger Benue.

Footprints and why is the footprint always middle east What makes you think the Yorubas are not indigenous to Nigeria or sub-sharan africa at large Why the middle east
Which one is it?
We are tracing footprints to discover if 1 is the corrwct story or if its 2. Nothing is assumed or ruled out. Period!

I have a question which I think is quite fundamental to this exchange.

Let's pretend in the mean time (for the sake of argument) that the languages of the Yoruba people and that of some Hebrew used to be identically one and the same.

Now, why does this fact/assumption necessitate the thinking that our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, should be: H₀ = The Yorubas descended from the Hebrews ??

Why can't our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, be: H₀ = The Hebrews descended from the Yorubas ??

I will appreciate banter-free, brief, very direct, and very objective responses.

Also, it is very okay if our responses say something like "I actually don't know why". We don't have to force knowing why.

Cheers!
cc: macof MetaPhysical Obalufon ...

Dude called it "similar" and "coincidence" lol recorded history from both sides and multiple sources,surviving languages,customs even religion lol all for what to claim middle eastern ancestry ������

macof:
there's no reason not to bring that fact up. You talk about enslaved Africans and question their Africanness for whatever reason, be it as a joke or silly excuse to further your semitic obsession
The first fact to raise is that slavery is oppressive and entails a huge lose of identity

Again, I ask were the semitic people who you claim migrated to populate Yorùbáland enslaved and forced to forget their homeland?

Because you are the one comparing this to slavery





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQBG_0ShlUs

Yes, because this must be a coincidence.

More sensible people know it cannot be a coincidence because this supports the records of African slaves in the americas

Where are the records of semitic slaves in Yorùbáland


Look, you don't have any similar anything with yoruba language and Afro-asiatic languages prior to the relatively recent establishment of trade and borrowing of Arabic words. And these borrowed words are very recognisable
There's even a list on nairaland


I can't deal with this level of ignorance and intellectual blindness to facts

Even the Yoruba deities are strictly West African.. So just what ritual or worship footprint?


Lmao
First of all Yoruba do not have their own personal haplogroup or something. It's a haplogroup shared amongst West and Central Africans.. With little traces in other regions
Same applies for Semitic people like the Bedouin you keep mentioning who are majorly of the J-haplogroup
So if you are looking for Yoruba and bedouin haplogroups. I think that research is already done
and to suggest Yoruba and bedouin share same haplogroup is to imply that all of Africa and western Asia share same haplogroup


Secondly, the mecca story is not traditional
I have been through this
The traditional narrative has always been Òkè-Ọ̀rà

Go to the Obadio

Question should be where did this Hebrew heritage come from?? Why is it so prevalent There is no linkage between yoruba and middle east aside islam so how come it takes center stageI mean let's be serious this is history 101 people who take in a religion that influences their culture will always want to tie their origins there,sometimes is not even religion take Chinese people of the city of liquan claim they descended from the ancient soldiers of rome why some historian claimed they look European and found some connections between them and ancient roman soldiers who migrated east,today there is a monument and museum in liquan showing their supposed roman heritage,this is not a new thing,even the mansas of mali claimed ancestry from one of Muhammed servant's,solomonids claim jewish ancestry this just shows the effect of abramhic religion on our culture,funny how islam and christianity take came recently is now taking forefront not just in culture but in history

TAO11:
I have a question which I think is quite fundamental to this exchange.

Let's pretend in the mean time (for the sake of argument) that the languages of the Yoruba people and that of some Hebrew used to be identically one and the same.

Now, why does this fact/assumption necessitate the thinking that our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, should be: H₀ = The Yorubas descended from the Hebrews ??

Why can't our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, be: H₀ = The Hebrews descended from the Yorubas ??

I will appreciate banter-free, brief, very direct, and very objective responses.

Also, it is very okay if our responses say something like "I actually don't know why". We don't have to force knowing why.

Cheers!
cc: macof MetaPhysical Obalufon ...

author=macof post=88915786] there's no reason not to bring that fact up. You talk about enslaved Africans and question their Africanness for whatever reason, be it as a joke or silly excuse to further your semitic obsession
The first fact to raise is that slavery is oppressive and entails a huge lose of identity

Again, I ask were the semitic people who you claim migrated to populate Yorùbáland enslaved and forced to forget their homeland?

Because you are the one comparing this to slavery

Which semitic people are you talking about? Who has ever said Yoruba were semitic people? I think you are mixing things up.

I have always said here that Yoruba is not Arab and Yoruba is not Jewish, Yoruba remain an authentic race. Even if Yoruba is found to be origination in Afro-Asia it was the parent or progenitor to those we call Arabs and Israelites today because both came from Abraham, a descendant to Noah. While Jews and Arabs are ABRAHAMIC, it is believed Yorubas are NOAHDIC.

So in order of ancestry I could never place Yoruba under a Semite or protoSemite. However, the language is proto-Semitic.

Semitism came out of Akkadian and Canaan - both were Nohadic in spirituality. The people who settled and assimilated the Semitic language is what is called Semitic race today but they are not the original speakers of semitic tongue.

Don't mix this up again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQBG_0ShlUs

Yes, because this must be a coincidence.

More sensible people know it cannot be a coincidence because this supports the records of African slaves in the americas

Where are the records of semitic slaves in Yorùbáland

How was that supported.... did they mention names, tribes, towns, family compound....or was this support just on the strength that we both share same rituals and worship?

Masjid is what Arabs call Temple. It is derived from Sigid, meaning to prostrate. This is taken from its original, Sigidi, a Yoruba word. Yoruba keep Sigidi in shrine and in acts of worship we prostrate to the deity represented by it. "More sensible people" will see a relationship in this and it supports a cognate between the two places.

To stretch this further, when Islam came to Mecca, Masjid was adopted as the name to call Muslim Mosques. Yoruba muslims don't call it Masjid, instead we borrowed from Hausa to call it Moshalashi. It makes sense....there was no sigidi in it. So the linkage of Yoruba with Mecca is supported at both ends, with Yoruba turning out as the original.

Shake your Islamic attachment loose so you can see. Traces of Orisha worship remain till date in Mecca as it does in Brazil or Cuba or Puerto Rico.


[s]Look, you don't have any similar anything with yoruba language and Afro-asiatic languages prior to the relatively recent establishment of trade and borrowing of Arabic words. And these borrowed words are very recognisable
There's even a list on nairaland [/s]


I can't deal with this level of ignorance and intellectual blindness to facts

Lmao
First of all Yoruba do not have their own personal haplogroup or something. It's a haplogroup shared amongst West and Central Africans.. With little traces in other regions
Same applies for Semitic people like the Bedouin you keep mentioning who are majorly of the J-haplogroup
So if you are looking for Yoruba and bedouin haplogroups. I think that research is already done
and to suggest Yoruba and bedouin share same haplogroup is to imply that all of Africa and western Asia share same haplogroup

Im not new to you here. I do not concern myself with genetical links. I only threw that in since you brought it up. My own focus is on religious, spirituality, culture and words of expression and their corresponding phenomenon. Nothing more...

Secondly, the mecca story is not traditional
I have been through this
The traditional narrative has always been Òkè-Ọ̀rà

Go to the Obadio

Obadio will not be the custodian of Yoruba oral history. His role is that of a priest. That role of historical recount is usually with bards and arokin. The oral history is there nonetheless.

TAO11:
I have a question which I think is quite fundamental to this exchange.

Let's pretend in the mean time (for the sake of argument) that the languages of the Yoruba people and that of some Hebrew used to be identically one and the same.

Now, why does this fact/assumption necessitate the thinking that our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, should be: H₀ = The Yorubas descended from the Hebrews ??

Why can't our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, be: H₀ = The Hebrews descended from the Yorubas ??

I will appreciate banter-free, brief, very direct, and very objective responses.

Also, it is very okay if our responses say something like "I actually don't know why". We don't have to force knowing why.

Cheers!
cc: macof MetaPhysical Obalufon ...

God bless you! This has always been my position. This thread is vast....if you start from page1 to where we are one you will see a consistency in my position.

In fact, this has also been the position of absolutesuccess (prexios). Same with Obalufon and Olu13.

RamessesIV:
Question should be where did this Hebrew heritage come from?? Why is it so prevalent There is no linkage between yoruba and middle east aside islam so how come it takes center stageI mean let's be serious this is history 101 people who take in a religion that influences their culture will always want to tie their origins there,sometimes is not even religion take Chinese people of the city of liquan claim they descended from the ancient soldiers of rome why some historian claimed they look European and found some connections between them and ancient roman soldiers who migrated east,today there is a monument and museum in liquan showing their supposed roman heritage,this is not a new thing,even the mansas of mali claimed ancestry from one of Muhammed servant's,solomonids claim jewish ancestry this just shows the effect of abramhic religion on our culture,funny how islam and christianity take came recently is now taking forefront not just in culture but in history

I totally understand your narrative. I also know that the narrative of some supposed Hebrew (or Arab) origin for the Yorubas is pseudo-history.

I am only asking that even if we pretend that all the so-called linguistic similarities (between Yoruba and Hebrew) are indeed valid; does this neccessitate the whole Yoruba from Hebrew thing. It's actually nauseating.


See, I know that many Yoruba words appears to align in both sound and meaning with Japanese words, but yet we don't see any of our people insisting on some Japanese roots for the Yorubas. Lol

And the reason is simple. Shintoism (as a Japanese religion) has zero influence among the Yorubas. It's as simple as that.

It is very obvious that what we see here is nothing but cognitive dissonance.

How people are simply trying to make sense of two opposing (and almost contradictory) inluential realities in their lives which has shaped their worldview and left a strong lasting impression.

MetaPhysical:


God bless you! This has always been my position. This thread is vast....if you start from page1 to where we are one you will see a consistency in my position.

In fact, this has also been the position of absolutesuccess (prexios). Same with Obalufon and Olu13.

Lol. I won't promise to begin reading from page 1 oo. But I am willing to trust that you wouldn't lie about what your view has been.

Now, I'm glad that you're quite willing to entertain a different possibility.

Now let's revisit the assumption of linguistic clues.

See, if we must really kiss reality, and shy away from fantasy; then we must be willing to honestly admit our limitation, helplessness, and gross incompetence in a particular technical/academic field of inquiry.

(1) In the light of the foregoing, I then humbly ask that can you direct me to any redoubtable linguist or any redoubtable peer-review academic work which also admits this so-called Hebrew-Yoruba linguistic clues??


Oh ... by the way, I actually know of a late Professor of Yoruba language (who had taught in Japan) who have actually submitted on the excessive linguistic similarity between Yoruba language and the Japanese language.

(2) In the light of this, I humbly ask then that what would do you think this Yoruba-Japanese linguistic similarity mean for the Yoruba and Japanese "races" ??

Cheers!

RamessesIV:
Question should be where did this Hebrew heritage come from?? Why is it so prevalent There is no linkage between yoruba and middle east aside islam so how come it takes center stageI mean let's be serious this is history 101 people who take in a religion that influences their culture will always want to tie their origins there,sometimes is not even religion take Chinese people of the city of liquan claim they descended from the ancient soldiers of rome why some historian claimed they look European and found some connections between them and ancient roman soldiers who migrated east,today there is a monument and museum in liquan showing their supposed roman heritage,this is not a new thing,even the mansas of mali claimed ancestry from one of Muhammed servant's,solomonids claim jewish ancestry this just shows the effect of abramhic religion on our culture,funny how islam and christianity take came recently is now taking forefront not just in culture but in history

Dial back to pre-Islamic age, and you will see evidence of Yoruba footprint in everything the Meccans did.

We have listed many of the mirror expressions and practices for you guys but you continue to stress Islam...Islam...Islam...Islam.... Release your attachment from Islam so you can see without bias.

Kaaba - The Holy mosque in Mecca. In Arabic Kaab means a place of exaltation. Kaabiyesi in Yoruba means exaltation.
This is a position of relativity between a High and a Low. Akaba is the name we gave to the tool use as a bridge between High and Low.

Alhajj - a visitor in Arab. Alejo, a visitor in Yoruba.

Umrah - the preparation for a sacred holy rite. Imura, a state of preparation in Yoruba.

I can list over 100 of these cognates. Go through this thread and review my postings you will see many of them.


Islam borrowed from pre-Islamic Mecca....the age back when people of Mecca worshipped Orisha and prostrated before sigidi. The ancient Meccans learnt it from Yoruba. At one point in past times there was a co-location between the two.

Was that co-location in Old Ife, or was it in Mecca itself? This is my quest.

TAO11:


Which historian??

Moreover, how does that change the fact that your Oba Ewuare2 (just like his fathers) came to pay homage at Ile-Ife groves (i.e. Orun Oba Ado site and Oranmiyan groove) upon his ascension??


I'm about to start dealing with you here too.

What is your Yoruba name and your Italian name??

You never get sense..........

Dont mention me before you begin raining abuses on your generation


Learn to debate without been so emotional

If you have to pass any information do it without been emotional so your message will be passed
Many people have complained on your fiery tongue but instead to cool it down, you keep adding fire to it..........



Go and learn how to talk no one is your mate or your family members you will be rainy insult on because they are debating you...........

Instead of argument with bigoted mind who will rather not share any ideas without being bigoted i will rather go in silent and do proper research to validate the ife-benin connections whatever i find i will create a thread to educate everyone


In other to beat this myth of ife-benin relationships a proper reduction has to be done

TAO11:


Lol. I won't promise to begin reading from page 1 oo. But I am willing to trust that you wouldn't lie about what your view has been.

Now, I'm glad that you're quite willing to entertain a different possibility.

Now let's revisit the assumption of linguistic clues.

See, if we must really kiss reality, and shy away from fantasy; then we must be willing to honestly admit our limitation, helplessness, and gross incompetence in a particular technical/academic field of inquiry.

(1) In the light of the foregoing, I then humbly ask that can you direct me to any redoubtable linguist or any redoubtable peer-review academic work which also admits this so-called Hebrew-Yoruba linguistic clues??


Oh ... by the way, I actually know of a late Professor of Yoruba language (who had taught in Japan) who have actually submitted on the excessive linguistic similarity between Yoruba language and the Japanese language.

(2) In the light of this, I humbly ask then that what would do you think this Yoruba-Japanese linguistic similarity mean for the Yoruba and Japanese "races" ??

Cheers!

I am not just starting to entertain a different possibility as you put it. I have remained firm and consistent throughout.
Certain things do not need technical/academic inquiry.

When I asked how the slaves on the Atlantic coast were able to link to Yoruba, the responses I received had no technical/academic credits....it was simply stated on the strength of the TRUTH which the spirituality of our ancestors convey and is strongly evident in both places, Yoruba and diaspora. We must use same standard to address Yoruba and AfroAsia.

If however you insist on an academic backing....the research and products of such investigations were pioneered by non-Yorubas, whether in Yorubaland or in diaspora.....and the Eurocentric writers followed "footprints". I am simply calling for the same thing here....footprints!