Bro, you can't use contemporary historical methods to unravel black Hebrews. The methods are skewed against such by the Caucasians. In the end though, all things shall be laid bare. Yorubas are migrants and not indigenous here. That assertion should be too clear to see. Every attempt and efforts to link us here have been proved abortive. We have no common heritage, in terms of culture, language, rituals rite, etc with any tribe in Africa except those of our kits. If I may ask you my brother, do you believe the assertion of the Ijebus that they transverse and had a temporary stop at Waddai in Sudan while migrating from the Near East? Don't be deceived, history is written by the conquerer. We are not from here but we won't remember, at least majority, until fullness of time.

OmoOlofin:


First of all, I am glad you've eventually impliedly admitted that Professor Akintoye holds no such interpretation which you appear to have attributed to him in your reply to Amujale.

(1) I am not sure if you really do take your time to read what you will be replying to.

First, what you call "his view" is the unanimous position of contemporary historical scholarship.

And this position holds that the meaning of the inscription on the Opa Oranmiyan (assuming that's what you meant where you curiously spelt Oranmiyah instead) is "unknown to us today".

Scholars do not simply sit all day fabricating interpretations just because there isn't any textually/orally grounded interpretation yet. No, that's not what scholarship is about.

(2) Although your points (2) and (3) here is not exactly what I am addressing at the moment (though related), but I am glad to inform you that the scientific evidence repeatedly points to the same fact that the ethno-linguistic group known today as the Yorubas first appeared on the soil of today's Nigeria.

This is the unanimous conclusion reached from the linguistic studies conducted even by our own indigenous linguists such as Adetugbo, Obayemi, Oyelaran, Akinkugbe, et al.

Akinkugbe's study being the most thorough of the inter-dialectal and external relations of the Yoruba language. She undertook the study from the point of view not only of phonology but also of lexicostatistics.

The conclusion from these linguistic studies are also corroborated by archaeological results and interpretations.

(3) For your point (3) here, I think you have missed an important question which you must first ask.

You must first ask yourself if there is any reputable historian of African and Yoruba History today who holds such view of Oduduwa having his roots in some foreign land.

Guess what! There is none. To substantiate this claim of mine, it is sufficient to borrow the exact words of S. A.Akintoye where he writes:

"All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that the great political changes which began in Ife in about the tenth century were indigenous in their origin, in their unfolding and in their dramatis personae. It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised; it is only in that soil that his roots can be found."

Reference:
S. A. Akintoye, "A History of The Yoruba People", p.57.

What I think you should do at this point is the very thing that historians did beginning from the mid/late 1900s.

In other words, you should pause and ask yourself who was the first person to write something about a foreign origin for Oduduwa, and from where or whom did such writer get such account.

I have once commented somewhere, at some great lenght, on this specific topic of Oduduwa's origin. I will post it here as soon as I find the comment.

Hi Olu317:

The following is the comment on Oduduwa's origin I promised to repost here:

In a 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife, Paul Ozanne noted that evidence shows that many settlements have been established in the Ife country by at least the 4th century BC.

He pointed out that the Ife area lies in a high bowl (namely, the "Ife bowl" ) surrounded by hills which form a watershed for many streams flowing out through gaps between the hills. And that into this "bowl" the earliest settlers came in some unknown antiquity.

Paul Ozanne: "A Preliminary Report of an Archaeological Survey of Ife"; also "A New Archaeological Survey of Ife," Odu, new series, 1, 1969, pp.131-148.

The idea that Oduduwa's roots was in some distant foreign land is actually alien and foreign to the early Yorubas themselves.

The most remote origin atttibuted to Oduduwa in indigenous Yoruba accounts is given in the mythology of Oduduwa's descent from heaven, as well as Obatala's, et al.

And if an interpretation of this particular mythical account would not deem Obatala (and the other actors in the account) as a non-Yoruba foreigner, then there is no reason why such interpretation of the same account would deem Oduduwa a foreigner.

For the sake of completeness, I should mention that this particular myth have absolutely nothing to do with a foreign country of origin for Oduduwa or Obatala, et al.

An examination of the earliest variant of this myth of descent of heavenly beigns supplies entirely different (unknown or unpopular) names to the charcaters involved.

This myth of descent of Oduduwa, Obatala, et al. have therefore been interpreted by historians to be a later remix of the original myth. Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye writes in his "A History of the Yoruba People" in relation to this interpretation as follows:

"As for the introduction of the names Oduduwa and Obatala into these creation myths, there seems no doubt that what we have here is a conflation of very ancient myths with later known facts at some point in Yoruba history. As will be seen in subsequent chapters, Obatala and Oduduwa were not mythical, heavenly beings; they were humans who played very significant roles in a great era of Yoruba history. Without doubt, what happened was that the contemporaries or successors of Obatala and Oduduwa added these two names to myths that had existed probably very long before their time, in an attempt to accord Oduduwa in particular the very high position he deserved in the transformation of Yoruba civilization in the most significant era in early Yoruba history."

S. Adebanji Akintoye: "A History of the Yoruba People", Amalion Publishing, 2010, pp.2-3.

In fact, if anything is known for sure about the view of Oduduwa's alleged foreign origin, then it is that this view is modern and quite alien to the Yoruba peoples' history.

To be quite specific, the foreign direction of Oduduwa's origin was first initiated towards the end of the 19th century by the Reverend Samuel Johnson in his famous "The History of the Yorubas" which was completed in 1897.

Until deep into the 20th century some of the best minds in historical scholarship simply followed Johnson's lead without questioning, even as there is a deafening silence of prior indigenous Yoruba accounts on such a foreign Oduduwa's origin. They also didn't deem it necessary to examine the roots of the Johnsonian hypothesis.

To briefly examine the influences and sources of Johnson's idea concerning the supposedly foreign roots of Oduduwa, it is sufficient to quote S. Adebanji Akintoye's A History of the Yoruba People. S. Adebanji Akintoye writes:

"Samuel Johnson was educated for the service of the church. ... .At the training institution in Abeokuta, he had schooled under a German teacher named G. F. Bühler, who while training his students as church workers, gave them a very solid grounding in ancient history --- the history of Egypt, Babylon, Greece and Rome. From such beginnings, Johnson developed a strong interest in the history and mythology of the Middle East. Moreover, Johnson's Yorubaland of the nineteenth century was increasingly affected by the growth of Islam and Christianity, two world-shaping products of the Middle East. In particular with Islam came the knowledge of Western Sudanese myths and legends through the writings of Muslims of the Western Sudan ("including Hausaland" ) --- especially some of the writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto which contained some Sudanese myths about Yoruba origins. Above all, the nineteenth century was, in Europe, the golden age of the study of the history and civilization of ancient Egypt. The ancient Egyptian writings (the hieroglyphic script) had just been deciphered, and the expanding knowledge of the wonders of ancient Egypt was creating great excitement in the world of scholarship. The writings of the emerging class of literate Yorubas were commonly laced with Egyptian and Middle Eastern references, analogies and mythology ("a practice apparently regarded then as a marker of erudition" ) --- as a reading of the Lagos newspaper of the time will abundantly show. All these influences combined to shape much of Johnson's The History of the Yorubas, and to account for his linking of all important details of early beginnings of Yoruba history to the Middle East. Thus, Oduduwa became a personage from the Middle East, and Oranmiyan's migration northward to the Niger country became a journey with the Middle East as its intended destination. Indeed, the influence of Middle Eastern mythology pervades most of Johnson's early history chapters, all the way from his preface."

Ibid., p.56.

If anything is palpably perceptible from the foregoing quotation, it is the fact that Johnson completely favoured an account of Oduduwa's origin by Sultan Bello of Sokoto, over and above an account of Oduduwa's origin by the Yorubas themselves.

In sum, he left out the Yoruba account of Oduduwa's origin in favour a heavily-Middle-East-influenced account by an Hausa.

Johnson's excitement to incorporate a Middle Eastern thesis into his treatise is clearly seen to be at play.

Contrasting Johnson's approach on his account of Oduduwa's origin with his approach on his account of Oyo's history, S. Adebanji Akintoye notes:

"In contrast, his accounts of the history of the Oyo Empire were assembled from oral evidence he collected in places like Oyo and Ibadan where memories of the disintegration of that empire were still quite fresh; while his accounts of late nineteenth century Yoruba history were products of his own eyewitness observation of many of the events."

Ibid., p.56.

Having shown that the influences and sources of Johnson's hypothesis of Oduduwa's alleged foreign origin are themselves foreign, and based more on sentiments than it can be argued to be based on any fact, it is vital then that an inward examination of the corpus of indigenous resources on the early history of the Youba people --- as well as on Oduduwa's roots particularly --- is undertaken.

In relation to this novel undertaking which didn't begin until well into the 1900s, S. Adebanji Akintoye writes:

"Fortunately, while much effort was being expended in following Johnson's ideas about the beginnings of Yoruba history, there existed all around us, in Ife and other parts of Yorubaland, an enormous wealth of traditions, as well as evidence in the Yoruba political system and surviving practices and rituals, about Oduduwa and his era. Ultimately a different direction in the study of Yoruba history developed ("as part of a more scientific study of African history in general" ) which focused on the indigenous evidence, as well as other source material, for the reconstruction of early Yoruba history. Consequent upon these efforts, we now stand able to lay aside, with respect, the Johnsonian hypothesis about the origins of Oduduwa and of the Yoruba. All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that the great political changes which began in Ife in about the tenth century were indigenous in their origin, in their unfolding and in their dramatis personae. It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised; it is only in that soil that his roots can be found."

Ibid., pp.56-57.

Regarding the specific region of Yorubaland where Oduduwa was born and raised, and how this ties to the account of the resistance he endured from some parties in the course of his becoming king in a unified Ife:

As is to be expected, scholars --- such as Ulli Beier, et al. --- who pioneered avoiding this obvious error inherent in the Johnsonian hypothesis did indeed make recourse to the rich corpus of indigenous Ife-Yoruba accounts.

An important account which proves particularly very useful to S. A. Akintoye's identification of Oduduwa's specific roots within Yorubaland (and how that ties to the well-known account of the resistance he endured from some quarters, in becoming the ruler of unified Ife) is the popular account of the violence, conflicts, and wars between the Oduduwa's alliance on one hand, and the Obatala's alliance on the other hand. This unrest is said (by all the variant accounts) to have lasted "a very long time".

Akin Ogundiran found, after thoroughly researching and combing through the generality of the available Ife traditional accounts on this much remembered conflict, that it must have lasted over a century.

This submission then raises the question of Oduduwa's and Obatala's participation in the conflicts.

Although the traditional accounts put Oduduwa and Obatala at the very beginning of the conflicts to their very end, we know that this is extremely unlikely given the unanimously admitted very long duration of the conflict by the generality of all the traditional accounts.

Moreover, it is seen very, very clearly from the accounts that Oduduwa emerged through the conflict as king ruling over a unified Ife.

This imagery, thus, warrants the necessary logical conclusion that both Oduduwa and Obatala were simply born into a long pre-existing and ongoing conflict by parents from opposing parties to the conflict.

In relation to the account leading to this conclusion, and the conclusion itself, Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye writes:

"There is no doubt that Oduduwa and Obatala were the most prominent persons in the last stages of the wars. Neither, therefore could have been actors, or even could have been born at the beginning of the conflicts."

Ibid., p.62.

In fact, to be emphatic, the indigenous traditions note that Oduduwa himself was born in Ife to parents who had relocated there (i.e. to the "Ife bowl" ) from one of the neighbouring hills surrounding the "bowl" --- Recall my earlier reference to a 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife by Paul Ozanne which notes that the "Ife bowl" is surrounded by hills forming watersheds.

In relation to this indigenous tradition regarding his specific land of birth and his "parents'" relocation, S. A. Akintoye writes:

"An examination of most of the traditions fairly definitively establish that Oduduwa was born in the stranger's area of Ife to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the traditions of resentment in the strangers' area, and that his youth and Obatala's youth ("both of them "sons of the soil"" ) were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife. The traditional accounts put both men in the era of conflicts from its beginning to its end, obviously because of their extremely dominant roles in its latter stages. In the light of this, it is reasonably certain that the group which became popularly known as the Oduduwa group in the traditions was led to the Ife area not by Oduduwa but by his parents or grand parents."

Ibid., p.62.

In conclusion, the idea that Oduduwa has a foreign origin outside of Yorubaland, outside of West Africa, or sometimes outside of Africa has long been set aside by historians as an over-ambitious pseudo-historical narrative. It has been set aside for a realistic historical narrative which has situated him definitively to be indigenous to Ile-Ife.

adee17:


(1) Bro, you can't use contemporary historical methods to unravel black Hebrews. The methods are skewed against such by the Caucasians.

[s]In the end though, all things shall be laid bare.[/s]

(2) Yorubas are migrants and not indigenous here. That assertion should be too clear to see.

(3) Every attempt and efforts to link us here have been proved abortive. We have no common heritage, in terms of culture, language, rituals rite, etc with any tribe in Africa except those of our kits.

(4) If I may ask you my brother, do you believe the assertion of the Ijebus that they transverse and had a temporary stop at Waddai in Sudan while migrating from the Near East?

(5) Don't be deceived, history is written by the conquerer. We are not from here but we won't remember, at least majority, until fullness of time.

(1) I am not sure where you got this strange and weird idea from.

How did you even manage to squeeze the word "Caucasians" in there?

Listen, scholarship is actually an accumulated process -- a continuum.

In other words, historians today have access to more writings than historians 100 years ago had access to.

In other words, they knew ("a" only), but today we now know ("a"+"b"+"c''+...).

I'm still curious as to how any rational mind could hold that the present state of knowledge must be reduced to ("a" only), when in fact we now already have more additions to "a".

(2) This is the very thing you seek to prove. So, please prove it.

(3) Are you serious now? Did you even bother to re-read what you typed? Did you even bother to read the comment you were replying to?

Who are these supposed scholars who made these so-called failed efforts?

(4) The idea that the Ijebus are foreigners from the Near-East is simply a special case of the broader Johnsonian hypothesis of Yoruba origins.

[Refer to my foregoing comment to see the sources and influences on Samuel Johnson's foreign origin hypothesis].

This special case of Wadai is only a very recent account of origin of the Ijebu people. It was first pronounced by the reigning monarch, the Awujale-IjebuOde -- Oba S.K. Adetona.

Prior to him, this account is conspicuously unheard of in the oral traditions of origin of the IjebuOde people.

Many "traditional sayings" till date (including those popular among the "Oṣugbo"*) indicate Ife as the origin of the Ijebu people.

[*"Oṣugbo" is the alternative name by which "Ogboni" is popularly called among the Ijebus and southern Yorubas generally.]

The extant oral account of the early beginnings of IjebuOde says that there are three waves of migration into the area.

The first wave is said to be led by Oluiwa who settled with his followers at Iwode -- an important part of the city.

The second wave is said to be led by Arisu who settled with his followers in the Ijasi area of the city.

The third and most important wave is said to be led by Ogborogan (aka Obanta) -- the founder of the present IjebuOde Kingdom.

All these men are said, in the traditions, to have led their groups from Ife.

(5) Lol, I shouldn't be deceived? I appreciate your advice.

But as a gentle reminder: I am the one who have been citing scholarship, while you've simply written what you wished for, without any reference whatsoever.

Let me ask you a question: Was your background a Christian one?

Just asking! I actual have no problem with people's religious leaning.

I'm asking only because it seems to me that there is a strong (if not perfect) correlation between a person's Christian background and their wish that Yorubas are Hebrews, etc.

Just as there is a strong (if not perfect) correlation between a person's Islamic backround and their wish that Yorubas are Arabs, etc.

adee17:
If I may ask you my brother, do you believe the assertion of the Ijebus that they transverse and had a temporary stop at Waddai in Sudan while migrating from the Near East? Don't be deceived, history is written by the conquerer. We are not from here but we won't remember, at least majority, until fullness of time.

Yoruba are indigenous to Nigeria, Africa.

The assertion of the Ijebus from Waddai in Sudan is false.

Stop trying to bastardise history.

All those who attempt to make such claims are normally based on ideology.

You are trying to link yourself to Arabia when the Arabs hate Africans to the extent that they recreated a slave trade in Libya.

Its time to wake up!

Yoruba civilization didn't emerge here ..Our knowledge and civilization is beyond what our environment can support ,our verse knowledge of things that can not be sourced in our present locate is astounding ,whether we were influenced or we migrated here from somewhere....

Obalufon:
Yoruba civilization didn't emerge here ..Our knowledge and civilization is beyond what our environment can support ,our verse knowledge of things that can not be source in our present locate is astounding ,whether we were influenced or we migrated here from somewhere....

May God forgive Afican/Yoruba historical scholarship for disagreeing with the wish of a Nairalander and "scholar", namely -- Obalufon.

OmoOlofin:


May God forgive Afican/Yoruba historical scholarship for disagreeing with the wish of a Nairalander and "scholar", namely -- Obalufon.

we need time machine

OmoOlofin:


May God forgive Afican/Yoruba historical scholarship for disagreeing with the wish of a Nairalander and "scholar", namely -- Obalufon.

prove me wrong ..i'm not historian

Obalufon:
prove me wrong ... i'm not historian

In that case, you ought to be willing to accept the conclusions of historians.

And the conclusion reached by historians (from linguistic and other evidence) is that the ethno-linguistic group of people known today by the name Yoruba first appeared in the region known today by the name Nigeria.

Will you then be willing to submit to the conclusions of historical scholarship even if you dislike what the conclusions say??

OmoOlofin:

In that case, you ought to be willing to accept the conclusions of historians.

And the conclusion reached by historians (from linguistic and other evidence) is that the ethno-linguistic group of people known today by the name Yoruba first appeared in the region known today by the name Nigeria.

Will you then be willing to submit to the conclusions of historical scholarship even if you dislike what the conclusion says??

European grouping who group you people ,your slave masters , they group you like grouping animals ,you are trying to group us with animals i won't accept it , till 1980s they are still discovering naked people in north of Nigeria covering their butt with leaves 1940 to 50s 95 percent of ibos are naked we called them "oni hoho "naked people those are the people you want to group us with ...Are you verse in yoruba science ?

Obalufon:

(1) European grouping who group you people, your slave masters, they group you like grouping animals, you are trying to group us with animals i won't accept it.

(2) till 1980s they are still discovering naked people in north of Nigeria covering their butt with leaves 1940 to 50s 95 percent of ibos are naked we called them "oni hoho "naked people those are the people you want to group us with

(3)...Are you verse in yoruba science ?

(1) Lol. First of all, I can't remember where I made mention of any so-called "European grouping".

I'm confused and lost at this point as to which of my comments you're replying to here.

You seem to have anticipated certain comments from me, and you have had some ready-made replies to them.

While that is fair enough, I would have expected that you would modify your ready-made reply since my comment didn't eventually match your anticipation.

But let's even pretend that I mentioned some so-called "European grouping", your contention here still boils down to a purely emotional argument devoid of any ratiocination.

Your emotional argument here sounds like you would "accept" the supposed "grouping" if it had been done by Hebrews and not Europeans.

Seems to me like the Europeans enslaved the bodies of our fathers of yore, while the Hebrews continue to enslave the minds of their children till date.

(2) Your point (2) here makes it even further clearer that your contention is nothing more than a purely emotional contention.

Brother, such emotional contentions/arguments actually hold no water from a scientific standpoint.

To make my case here even clearer, consider the Binis' case below:

(a) The Binis are the about closest distinct ethno-linguistic group to the Yoruboid group.

[Even a layperson who does not know jack about linguistics realizes this]

(b) The Binis were largely still roaming stark n@ked even until around the late-1890s/early-1900s (or perhaps much, much later).

[Eyewitness European documentations attest to this fact]

Will you now turn around and emotionally deny the glaring truth of point (a), just because you personally and subjectively refuse to be "grouped" with a people who were largely still roaming n@ked until recently? Will you?

Listen, our emotions are actually helpless and irrelevant in the face of scientific truths.

You won't dare pick up the surgical knives, etc. to conduct a C.S. on a family member on the excuse that only European surgeons ("your slave masters'" children) are available within your reach and capacity.

And If you won't dare do that with surgery, why dare attempt that with any field of scientific inquiry?

Leave the experts to their expertise. And the independent conclusion reached by the historians of African and Yoruba History (including indigenous Yoruba expert linguists such as Adetugbo, Obayemi, Oyelaran, and Akinkugbe as I have mentioned earlier) is that the ethno-linguistic group of people, now known as the Yorubas, first appeared on the soil of today's Nigeria.

(3) What is "Yoruba Science"?

Eledumare you sabi book ooo!!.. Who are the expert on Yoruba history ? the westernize historian we have in Nigeria that have to take their thesis to Europe to be certified. you openly refute ijebu wadai claim to suit your larger enthno-linguistic agenda laugh .. Yorubas are different people my brother . you think frobenius was crazy when he said is impossible for the indigenous people to have created this type of civilization is because the environment we are doesn't support or comprehend what he was seeing imagine people having knowledge about sea at its under water treasures ...class beads making, melting and blowing of glass powder into intricate ornaments the same technique used in the mideast ,.. making of 99percent copper and high knowledge on metallurgy ..knowledge of trinity

OmoOlofin:
Hi Olu317:

The following is the comment on Oduduwa's origin I promised to repost here:

In a 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife, Paul Ozanne noted that evidence shows that many settlements have been established in the Ife country by at least the 4th century BC.

He pointed out that the Ife area lies in a high bowl (namely, the "Ife bowl" ) surrounded by hills which form a watershed for many streams flowing out through gaps between the hills. And that into this "bowl" the earliest settlers came in some unknown antiquity.

Paul Ozanne: "A Preliminary Report of an Archaeological Survey of Ife"; also "A New Archaeological Survey of Ife," Odu, new series, 1, 1969, pp.131-148.

The idea that Oduduwa's roots was in some distant foreign land is actually alien and foreign to the early Yorubas themselves.

The most remote origin atttibuted to Oduduwa in indigenous Yoruba accounts is given in the mythology of Oduduwa's descent from heaven, as well as Obatala's, et al.

And if an interpretation of this particular mythical account would not deem Obatala (and the other actors in the account) as a non-Yoruba foreigner, then there is no reason why such interpretation of the same account would deem Oduduwa a foreigner.

For the sake of completeness, I should mention that this particular myth have absolutely nothing to do with a foreign country of origin for Oduduwa or Obatala, et al.

An examination of the earliest variant of this myth of descent of heavenly beigns supplies entirely different (unknown or unpopular) names to the charcaters involved.

This myth of descent of Oduduwa, Obatala, et al. have therefore been interpreted by historians to be a later remix of the original myth. Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye writes in his "A History of the Yoruba People" in relation to this interpretation as follows:

"As for the introduction of the names Oduduwa and Obatala into these creation myths, there seems no doubt that what we have here is a conflation of very ancient myths with later known facts at some point in Yoruba history. As will be seen in subsequent chapters, Obatala and Oduduwa were not mythical, heavenly beings; they were humans who played very significant roles in a great era of Yoruba history. Without doubt, what happened was that the contemporaries or successors of Obatala and Oduduwa added these two names to myths that had existed probably very long before their time, in an attempt to accord Oduduwa in particular the very high position he deserved in the transformation of Yoruba civilization in the most significant era in early Yoruba history."

S. Adebanji Akintoye: "A History of the Yoruba People", Amalion Publishing, 2010, pp.2-3.

In fact, if anything is known for sure about the view of Oduduwa's alleged foreign origin, then it is that this view is modern and quite alien to the Yoruba peoples' history.

To be quite specific, the foreign direction of Oduduwa's origin was first initiated towards the end of the 19th century by the Reverend Samuel Johnson in his famous "The History of the Yorubas" which was completed in 1897.

Until deep into the 20th century some of the best minds in historical scholarship simply followed Johnson's lead without questioning, even as there is a deafening silence of prior indigenous Yoruba accounts on such a foreign Oduduwa's origin. They also didn't deem it necessary to examine the roots of the Johnsonian hypothesis.

To briefly examine the influences and sources of Johnson's idea concerning the supposedly foreign roots of Oduduwa, it is sufficient to quote S. Adebanji Akintoye's A History of the Yoruba People. S. Adebanji Akintoye writes:

"Samuel Johnson was educated for the service of the church. ... .At the training institution in Abeokuta, he had schooled under a German teacher named G. F. Bühler, who while training his students as church workers, gave them a very solid grounding in ancient history --- the history of Egypt, Babylon, Greece and Rome. From such beginnings, Johnson developed a strong interest in the history and mythology of the Middle East. Moreover, Johnson's Yorubaland of the nineteenth century was increasingly affected by the growth of Islam and Christianity, two world-shaping products of the Middle East. In particular with Islam came the knowledge of Western Sudanese myths and legends through the writings of Muslims of the Western Sudan ("including Hausaland" ) --- especially some of the writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto which contained some Sudanese myths about Yoruba origins. Above all, the nineteenth century was, in Europe, the golden age of the study of the history and civilization of ancient Egypt. The ancient Egyptian writings (the hieroglyphic script) had just been deciphered, and the expanding knowledge of the wonders of ancient Egypt was creating great excitement in the world of scholarship. The writings of the emerging class of literate Yorubas were commonly laced with Egyptian and Middle Eastern references, analogies and mythology ("a practice apparently regarded then as a marker of erudition" ) --- as a reading of the Lagos newspaper of the time will abundantly show. All these influences combined to shape much of Johnson's The History of the Yorubas, and to account for his linking of all important details of early beginnings of Yoruba history to the Middle East. Thus, Oduduwa became a personage from the Middle East, and Oranmiyan's migration northward to the Niger country became a journey with the Middle East as its intended destination. Indeed, the influence of Middle Eastern mythology pervades most of Johnson's early history chapters, all the way from his preface."

Ibid., p.56.

If anything is palpably perceptible from the foregoing quotation, it is the fact that Johnson completely favoured an account of Oduduwa's origin by Sultan Bello of Sokoto, over and above an account of Oduduwa's origin by the Yorubas themselves.

In sum, he left out the Yoruba account of Oduduwa's origin in favour a heavily-Middle-East-influenced account by an Hausa.

Johnson's excitement to incorporate a Middle Eastern thesis into his treatise is clearly seen to be at play.

Contrasting Johnson's approach on his account of Oduduwa's origin with his approach on his account of Oyo's history, S. Adebanji Akintoye notes:

"In contrast, his accounts of the history of the Oyo Empire were assembled from oral evidence he collected in places like Oyo and Ibadan where memories of the disintegration of that empire were still quite fresh; while his accounts of late nineteenth century Yoruba history were products of his own eyewitness observation of many of the events."

Ibid., p.56.

Having shown that the influences and sources of Johnson's hypothesis of Oduduwa's alleged foreign origin are themselves foreign, and based more on sentiments than it can be argued to be based on any fact, it is vital then that an inward examination of the corpus of indigenous resources on the early history of the Youba people --- as well as on Oduduwa's roots particularly --- is undertaken.

In relation to this novel undertaking which didn't begin until well into the 1900s, S. Adebanji Akintoye writes:

"Fortunately, while much effort was being expended in following Johnson's ideas about the beginnings of Yoruba history, there existed all around us, in Ife and other parts of Yorubaland, an enormous wealth of traditions, as well as evidence in the Yoruba political system and surviving practices and rituals, about Oduduwa and his era. Ultimately a different direction in the study of Yoruba history developed ("as part of a more scientific study of African history in general" ) which focused on the indigenous evidence, as well as other source material, for the reconstruction of early Yoruba history. Consequent upon these efforts, we now stand able to lay aside, with respect, the Johnsonian hypothesis about the origins of Oduduwa and of the Yoruba. All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that the great political changes which began in Ife in about the tenth century were indigenous in their origin, in their unfolding and in their dramatis personae. It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised; it is only in that soil that his roots can be found."

Ibid., pp.56-57.

Regarding the specific region of Yorubaland where Oduduwa was born and raised, and how this ties to the account of the resistance he endured from some parties in the course of his becoming king in a unified Ife:

As is to be expected, scholars --- such as Ulli Beier, et al. --- who pioneered avoiding this obvious error inherent in the Johnsonian hypothesis did indeed make recourse to the rich corpus of indigenous Ife-Yoruba accounts.

An important account which proves particularly very useful to S. A. Akintoye's identification of Oduduwa's specific roots within Yorubaland (and how that ties to the well-known account of the resistance he endured from some quarters, in becoming the ruler of unified Ife) is the popular account of the violence, conflicts, and wars between the Oduduwa's alliance on one hand, and the Obatala's alliance on the other hand. This unrest is said (by all the variant accounts) to have lasted "a very long time".

Akin Ogundiran found, after thoroughly researching and combing through the generality of the available Ife traditional accounts on this much remembered conflict, that it must have lasted over a century.

This submission then raises the question of Oduduwa's and Obatala's participation in the conflicts.

Although the traditional accounts put Oduduwa and Obatala at the very beginning of the conflicts to their very end, we know that this is extremely unlikely given the unanimously admitted very long duration of the conflict by the generality of all the traditional accounts.

Moreover, it is seen very, very clearly from the accounts that Oduduwa emerged through the conflict as king ruling over a unified Ife.

This imagery, thus, warrants the necessary logical conclusion that both Oduduwa and Obatala were simply born into a long pre-existing and ongoing conflict by parents from opposing parties to the conflict.

In relation to the account leading to this conclusion, and the conclusion itself, Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye writes:

"There is no doubt that Oduduwa and Obatala were the most prominent persons in the last stages of the wars. Neither, therefore could have been actors, or even could have been born at the beginning of the conflicts."

Ibid., p.62.

In fact, to be emphatic, the indigenous traditions note that Oduduwa himself was born in Ife to parents who had relocated there (i.e. to the "Ife bowl" ) from one of the neighbouring hills surrounding the "bowl" --- Recall my earlier reference to a 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife by Paul Ozanne which notes that the "Ife bowl" is surrounded by hills forming watersheds.

In relation to this indigenous tradition regarding his specific land of birth and his "parents'" relocation, S. A. Akintoye writes:

"An examination of most of the traditions fairly definitively establish that Oduduwa was born in the stranger's area of Ife to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the traditions of resentment in the strangers' area, and that his youth and Obatala's youth ("both of them "sons of the soil"" ) were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife. The traditional accounts put both men in the era of conflicts from its beginning to its end, obviously because of their extremely dominant roles in its latter stages. In the light of this, it is reasonably certain that the group which became popularly known as the Oduduwa group in the traditions was led to the Ife area not by Oduduwa but by his parents or grand parents."

Ibid., p.62.

In conclusion, the idea that Oduduwa has a foreign origin outside of Yorubaland, outside of West Africa, or sometimes outside of Africa has long been set aside by historians as an over-ambitious pseudo-historical narrative. It has been set aside for a realistic historical narrative which has situated him definitively to be indigenous to Ile-Ife.

Well,Yoruba history has always been in obscurity which made it so popular in nineteenth century upward to be studied more even till date. And on well research work either for immigrants status or ,on the location of Yoruba ancestors came for Odudua and groups ,which included Obalufon II etc.

Therefore, below citations from renown schoalars, linguist,Professors have written books about Yoruba people and there is no iota of doubts that studying Yoruba's place of origin is continuum. The following account of Yoruba history are also popular


‘The Yorùbá came from Mecca’

The tradition that the Yorùbá came from Mecca is expounded in Samuel Johnson’s work, The History of the Yorubas, which has become a reference point for subsequent works on Yorùbá history. In the study, the story is told of Lámúrudu, a king of Mecca whose descendants were Odùdùwà, the ancestor of the Yorùbá and the kings of Gogobiri (that is Gobir in Hausaland) and of Kukawa (in Bornu), both of which are in the north of Nigeria. The period of Lámúrudu’s reign is presumed to be after the arrival of Islam. Johnson records the account as related to him and is worth quoting here: The Crown Prince Odùdùwà relapsed into idolatry during his father’s reign, and as he was possessed of great influence, he drew many after him. His purpose was to transform the state religion into paganism, and hence he converted the great mosque of the city into an idol temple... ?


The Yorùbá came from Egypt :
A major exponent of the theory is Olumide Lucas whose 400 page Oxford doctoral dissertation, The Religion of the Yoruba (1948), is wholly devoted to the task of tracing a connection between the Yorùbá and Egypt. His main thesis is that the Yorùbá must have resided in ancient Egypt for a long time before moving to their present location, and that origin accounts for the similarities between the Yorùbá and ancient Egypt. The theory is not based on oral tradition per se, but on pieces of evidence from written documents, which he uses to develop his argument. Using a kind of folk etymology, first, he argues for a Yorùbá connection with Egypt based on what he refers to as similarity or identity of language (1948:18-20). He alleges
that fifty percent of Yorùbá vocabulary is of Egyptian origin or root and to illustrate his point, he considers words from five short paragraphs that he claims were randomly selected from some Yorùbá literature. His conclusion is that at least half of the words in the passages are “survivals of Ancient Egyptian words” (1948:343). Lucas’ second point is that the Egyptian connection is based on similarity or identity of religious beliefs and the third argument, which is similar to the second, is similarity or identity of religious ideas and practices. According to him, some of these similarities include the names and attributes of the gods of both peoples, belief in life and judgement after death, deification of kings and the belief in guardian spirits (1948:20-26). In other words, Yorùbá religion is a survival of ancient Egyptian religion and it stands in genetic relation to the latter (1948:344). Finally, he argues that a connection can be established based on survival of customs, and names of persons, places, objects, etc. (1948:26-30). These include among other things, elements of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, emblems and other symbols in Yorùbá (especially, If) art and craft. However, Lucas is not alone. Before him was Talbot (1926) and even Johnson, who after disputing the Mecca theory, argues that the Yorùbá probably emigrated from Upper Egypt to Ilé-Ife. His evidence includes the sculptures known as If marbles and the ‘Phoenician’ characters on pá rànmíyàn, an ancient granite obelisk over 18ft high at If (Johnson 1921:6). At any rate, the Egypt theory has not been established clearly as authentic since several scholars maintain that the widespread story of an Egyptian ancestry cannot be credited (Wescott 1957:10-15).


On the possible eastern origin of the Yorubas:

Tariqh Sawandi says: "The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population
across the trans-African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger.

According to Olumide J. Lucas, "the Yoruba, during antiquity, lived in ancient Egypt before migrating to the Atlantic coast". He uses as demonstration the similarity or identity of languages, religious beliefs, customs and names of persons, places and things. In addition, many ancient papyri discovered by archaeologists point at an Egyptian origin" (Tariqh Sawandi: "Yorubic medicine: The Art of divine Herbology)

One consequence of this daily use of the Arabic language and the accompanying practice of establishing Arabic schools to teach new converts, was the gradual inroad of a considerable amount of Arabic-derived words and expressions relating to Islamic worship and other subjects into the Yoruba language.


On a contrary View:
Taking a cue from Beier, Law (1973:30) notes that, “the claim to origin from Mecca is not an original element of the tradition, but a later elaboration, intended to link the Yoruba to the prestigious civilizations of the east” (cf. 1977:28-9). Overall, the theory that the Yorùbá must have migrated from Mecca to Ilé-If has met with disapproval among scholars.

After this condemnation by Beier,Law(1973:30).
Something of An amazement about Yoruba resurfaced that :

That:

The language of Yoruba is indeed connected to Coptic Egyptians Language,
in, which A.B Ellis , also provided more information on comparison. And which showed large input from Semitic language: in Searching for Orthography of Yoruba by Ogungiyi( Arabic~ Hebrew ~ Phonecian).

I.A OGUNBIYI, Arabic Professor says, ‘This aspect of Yoruba contact with Islam has also received adequate study, from doctrinaire scholars who have attempted to trace virtually all Yoruba words to an Arabic root,as well as from those who have based their identification of Arabic loanwords on academically plausible analyses'.

Comments and observations on Yoruba language and in comparison with Arabic:

1. Yoruba consonants:

The Yoruba sound system has a total of eighteen consonants, fifteen of which have close equivalents in the Arabic sound system while one, the Yoruba g is pronounced much like the Egyptian ج as in gamal ﻞﻤﺟ rather than like the Arabic غ as in ghazal, hence its representation by the Arabic غ is mere approximation. The two Yoruba sounds that have no equivalent Arabic sounds are the plosive bi-labials p (kp) and gb which are respectively represented in Yoruba Þajamõ by three diacritical marks under the b, and three over the Arabic ع. Although these two Yoruba sounds have no exact simple equivalents in Arabic, the phonemes, which are combined in pronouncing each of them are close to some Arabic sounds. For example, the Yoruba p is pronounced by a subtle combination of the k and b, in which a faint, almost imperceptible k sound is overshadowed by a heavily plosive b sound. Similarly, the Yoruba gb sound is a subtle combination of a faint g sound with a heavily plosive b sound. It is noteworthy that only very few non-Yoruba, or speakers of related languages, are able to accurately realize these two sounds in pronunciation. It is the b sound that is often substituted by such foreigners for these two Yoruba sounds. In general, communication is not often impaired by such mispronunciation, especially when in context. Indeed, until the recent modification/reformation of the Yoruba Þajamõ about which we shall discuss shortly, even Yoruba anjemi writers have represented both sounds by the Arabic b (ب), as in:ﻮﻜﺑ ﺐﺒﺳ ﻮﻋ a o si gbo pooku39 and in ﺎﺘﺑﺎﺘﺑ patapata.

2. Yoruba vowels:

Unlike the eighteen Yoruba consonants, all of which have close equivalents in the Arabic sound systems except two, four out of seven of the attested Yoruba vowels have no close equivalents in the Arabic sound system and anjemi writers have had to manipulate a combination of Arabic vowels and diacritical marks to represent these four. When it is realized that in Yoruba, vowels are of greater importance than consonants, and tones (a major peculiarity of the language) are of greater importance than vowels, 41 we would appreciate the enormity of the difficulty which has confronted anjemi writers in accurately representing all the tonal nuances of the Yoruba language in writing. There are three tones in Yoruba, namely: the low tone, the medium and the high, approximately corresponding to the musical notes: do re mi, and the meaning of a monosyllabic word consisting of a consonant and a vowel may vary according to the tone of the vowel


The Yorùbá came from the Northeast of Africa:

As the two theories of Meccan and Egyptian origin became increasingly unpopular, a third position, which is not unrelated to them and which is not so specific, gained more ground. This is the theory that the Yorùbá came from the north eastern part of Africa. This theory might have been triggered by two different written accounts, a work originally written in Arabic in 1812 by Sultan Muhammad Bello of Sokoto (1779-1837), the grandson of Uthman dan Fodio, the founder of the Fulani Empire and the Sokoto Caliphate, and Leo Frobenius’ account in The Voice of Africa (1913). Bello’s writing was obtained by Clapperton and his travel companion, Denham and a part of it is an account of what was purported to be the origin of the Yorùbá, whom Bello referred to as Yarba. Bello’s account of Yorùbá migration, which has been regarded as fanciful erroneous and mere hearsay (Lucas 1948:16; Law 1977:15), states that the Yorùbá are descendants of Nimrod who were driven out of Arabia (or Iraq) to West Africa through Sudan. In essence, Bello records a Middle East origin and a migration through the Sudan for the Yorùbá. In 1910-11, the German professor of anthropology, Leo Frobenius was at Ilé-Ife on expedition and conducted excavations on some sites. His report on the excavations drew world attention to the historical and archaeological significance of If.

The sophistication and the naturalism of the artwork excavated at If made Frobenius (1913:345) conclude that he had discovered the survival of an ancient West Mediterranean colony on Africa’s Atlantic coast: I maintain I have re-discovered Atlantis, the ‘Emporium of the culture'of the West on the further sides of the straits of Gibraltar, that Atlantis, whose walls, as Solon informs us, held within them Poseidon’s Castle, where there was a wealth of luxuriant vegetation… I lay claim to Yoruba, so tropically lush and rank in its vegetation… this Yoruba, I assert, is Atlantis, the home of Poseidon’s posterity, the Sea-God by them named Olókun; the land of a people whom Solon declared: They have even extended their lordship over Egypt and Tyrrhene!

Frobenius’ hypothesis is that there must have been some Etruscan influence on the Atlantic coast in the thirteenth century BC the relics of which he found at Ilé-Ife. The people must have got to the west coast by way of the sea through fleets from North Africa and the remains of that Mediterranean culture can be found in different aspects of Yorùbá art and culture such as the use of the handloom, the bow and arrow, and drums with a distinctive North African imprint. Others include the construction of water storage and of houses with ridge roofs as in North Africa.


Argument against Leo Frobenuis:

The hypothesis has been considered untenable and a guess, not only in archaeological circle but also in historical and religious. However, it should be noted that there is often confusion between the locations, northeast of Africa and Middle East in the accounts and references are sometimes vague.

Support for migration of Yoruba ancestors;

Adetugba (1973:182) states that, “The belief that is current among the Yorùbá is that they migrated to their present home from somewhere in the Middle East or Lower Egypt in different waves between the seventh and eleventh centuries A.D.” It is generally an either/or situation (e.g. Johnson’s Egypt/Nubia and Biobaku’s Egypt/beyond theories). In addition to this, various other traditions claim that the Yorùbá originated from the east of the Niger (cf. Bowen 1968:266), from the Sudan, parts of Asia (cf. Lucas 1948:15), from across a big river (Beier 1955b:19) or from a far country (Farrow 1926:21).

The same Beier says,Beier (1955a:26) also attempts to prove that the Nupe country was one of the stages of the Yorùbá migration.


As a continuum study on Yoruba people; Odudua, Obatala and Obalufon

Susan Blier's account on Yoruba Art work and history; this has to do with through ore could had made its way to Yoruba land.

Citing , Kenneth C. Murray, 'Nigerian Bronzes: Works from Ife,' Antiquity, xv, 1941, 73; Willett, 29: 4 Ancient copper exploitation took place in Niger, Mauritania, Mali, Sudan, Zaire (Thurstan Shaw, Nigeria: Its Archaeology and Early His- tory, London, 1978, 72). O. Werner and F. Willett have published the results of spectographic analyses of several Ife castings ("The Composition of Brasses from Ife and Benin," Archaeometry, xvii, 1975, 141-163), which suggest, however, that the metal may have come from Lower Saxony (in the Harz region) in Europe, where mines producing related ores were being worked during the 12th and 13th centuries. (Corresponding evidence of copper being transported by caravan across the Sahara in the 11th or 12th century [1090 A.D. ?1081 , has been found in Mauritania; Theodore Monod, "Majabat al-Koubra," Bulletin de lInstitut Francais dAfrique Noire, xxvi, 1964, 1394-1402). During this period, the African Berbers (Almoravid and Almohad Moslems) controlled much of the Western Sahara,the Mediterranean, and Spain.

Presumably it was through them that metals were traded into this area, either by way of Spain (which, as R. W. Southern notes [The Making of the Middle Ages, New Haven, 1953, 42], had trade contracts at this time with eastern Germany) or through Sicily (and the Holy Roman Empire) both of which benefited from trade ties with the Moslem world.

Radio carbon date of 350 Bc or 500Bc as being speculated isn't accurate but a fanciful assumption: Art in Ancient Ife, Birthplace of the Yoruba Suzanne Preston Blier

.... Susan Blier says and agreed , ‘for the period of Ife’s major artistic and cultural innovation, along with periods prior to (pre-Flo An early Ife date of c. 350 bce. purportedly based on radiocarbon (Folster in Ozanne 1969:32), cited by both Ogundiran (2002, p.c.) and Drewal (2009:80), has been rejected by Frank Willett (2004) and others for lack of supporting scientific evidence. I concur with this assessment.'

Mind you, Ozanne ( 1969:32)was one of the author you cited and the date of radio carbon on Ileife had been rejected in the scholarly world.


Conclusions by Susan Blier on ‘Odudua' , Oranmiyan and Obalufon: Kings, Crowns, and Rights of Succession: Obalufon Arts at Ife and Other Yoruba Centers

Susan Blier says,‘The process of Yo- ruba state formation that was associated with the early leader "Odudua" and his numerous sons appears to have presented great problems in this regard.

[ Not only were they ‘foreigners'] but they attempted to establish their own deities and to wrest the rulership of these lands from the ‘local' peoples. Understandably, the problems that the early rulers faced with the local populace were considerable. Signifi- cantly, it appears that Obalufon II came to symbolize the mediation of the two seemingly antithetical concerns.

On the one hand he himself was a ruler and descendant of the Ife city-state founder "Odudua"; on the other hand, he rep- resented and supported the legitimate rights of the local Ife population in the state rulership structure. For this reason, Obalufon II, like the arts associated with him, was iden- tified with the legitimacy of the very kingship on which Yoruba political stability was based.

The House of Oduduwa: An Archaeological Study of Economy and Kingship in the Savè Hills of West Africa by Andrew W. Gurstelle

Gurstelle says, ‘ The city was first mentioned by Europeans in the mid19th century, though oral histories from Ife and surrounding kingdoms claim a much deeper history (Smith 1988: 16; Blier 2012). Archaeological research at Ile-Ife has largely corroborated these claims, demonstrating a history of occupation dating back to at least the 10th century CE (Willett 1971). Monumental sculpture, such as the Opa Oranmiyan megalith, is associated with the foundation of royal dynasties (Smith 1988: 21).


My View outside my research works on linguistic comparison, showed :

1. Inavders:
Odudua and group were foreigners; and this people came to impose their own kind of religion on the aborigines.In: Kings, Crowns, and Rights of Succession: Obalufon Arts at Ife and Other Yoruba Centers'

2.Aborigines :
The account further relates that there were people (aborigines) at Ife when Odùdùwà arrived there with his group who must have been conquered and assimilated by Odùdùwà’s troupe (Johnson 1921:15). Several variants of this tradition also exist, but they all seem to agree that there were aborigines in the land when the migrants arrived (cf. Beier 1955a:25; Idowu 1962:63; Law 1973:31). Some traditions identify these aborigines as the Ugbos or Igbos, who were at war with Ife for a long time and now dwell in the Ilaje district in Òndó State (cf. Awolalu 1979:26). The presence of an aboriginal population is supported by archaeology.

3. Yoruba had contact with Arabic before Romanised orthography being found in eighteen century in Yoruba land. In: THE SEARCH FOR A YORUBA ORTHOGRAPHY SINCE THE 1840S: OBSTACLES TO THE CHOICE OF THE ARABIC SCRIPT

4.Hebrew Character:
Talbot (1926) and even Johnson, who after disputing the Mecca theory, argues that the Yorùbá probably emigrated from Upper Egypt to Ilé-Ife. His evidence includes the sculptures known as If marbles and the ‘Phoenician’ characters on opá rànmíyàn, an ancient granite obelisk over 18ft high at If (Johnson 1921:6).


5. Migration:
Moreover, Beier (1955b:19-20) mentions that in many smaller Yorùbá towns, several versions of this story do not claim an origin from Mecca but a migration of Odùdùwà and his men from beyond a great river.


Note: No matter how anyone try to over look the research work that has exposed the Foreign and local populace; it exists!

OmoOlofin:


I know it may appear weird that I keep replying you. But trust me that it is in good faith.

(1) Your "argument" so far in relation to your first point here is as follows:

(a) I, Obalufon, am not an expert on this subject, so I will be taking my views from the contamporary unanimous conclusions of experts.

(b) But if these experts are some Europeans whose conclusions doesn't align with what I wish for, then I will blatantly ignore their conclusions.

(c) I will also blatantly ignore the conclusions of any indigenous scholars whose conclusions wouldn't align with what I wish for.

In sum, it then appears clearly that what you seek is a conclusion which aligns with your wish, regardless of who reached this conclusion, and regardless of how it was reached.

Not only is your attitude here expressive of the logical fallacy well known as the confirmation bias fallacy, it can also be shown that same attitude is expressive of the double standard fallacy.

For example, I am quite certain you will have no confidence-issues allowing a so-called "westernized" Nigerian surgeon perform some procedure on you or a family member (if you or them needed one). In fact, I am quite certain you wouldn't still mind if the surpgeon was a European.

Despite the fact of your committing these logical fallacies, can you please point out which of the studies on linguistic classification schemes, by any of the indigenous scholars I listed, had to be taken to Europe for certification?

(2) What do you mean by "ethno-linguistic agenda"? Please enlighten me.

However, my eventual refutation of the Wadai hypothesis is not what should bother you much, rather what you should focus on is how the conclusion was reached.

In case you missed it earlier, the hypothesis of Ijebu migration from some "East" was first published in 1956.

This hypothesis was later given much vigour, popularity, and colour by the reigning King himself with his "Wadai" pronouncement.

Now tell me why any rational mind will abandon the extant traditional accounts of IjebuOde -- which clearly claims Ife as its roots -- for an alternative modern account which surfaced only a couple of years ago, and with absolutely no basis in any traditional account of IjebuOde.

It doesn't take a genius to see what's going on here to be an obvious attempt by some to fit in IjebuOde (a Yoruba city) into the broader Johnsonian hypothesis which asserts that the Yorubas have their roots in the Middle East.

But have you taken your time to pause and ask yourself where S. Johnson (the first person to initiate this foreign origin hypothesis) got this particular account from?

In case you haven't asked yourself before, he did not get it from Ife, neither did he get it from Oyo, nor did he get it from any Yoruba subgroup.

"Fom where then" you may ask. He, in fact, got this particular account (about Yoruba origin) from a Fulani man -- Yes, a Fulani man (through the records of Captain Clapperton) -- Sultan Bello who was the successor to Sultan Uthman Dan-Fodio.

[Refer to my exceptionally long comment somewhere above for details on this].

In fact, the extant traditional account which says that IjebuOde was founded by three waves of migration from Ife was published into writting, by the indigenous historian Epega, two years before S. Johnson's work was published.

In other words, you can be sure that the publication of the traditional account on Ife origin of IjebuOde is not some kind of reaction to Johnson's general hypothesis.

As it is to be expected then, the traditional accounts of all other Ijebu Kingdoms -- such as Iwopin, Ijebu-Ife, Ode-Omi, Remo, Ikorodu, etc. -- also corroborate the extant traditional accounts of IjebuOde by admitting that the Ijebus have their roots/origin in Ife.

Let's be guided!

(3) Talking about Leo Frobenius, you obviously have a misconstrued understanding of what Frobenius' conclusion was, as well as the factors that led to his conclusion. Let's take a look:

* Frobenius admitted quite clearly that the Ife artworks were made right in this same environment. In other words, he admitted that they weren't simply brought down here from elsewhere.

* However, the aesthetic appeal and technical sophistication of the Ife artworks struck Frobenius so hard that he couldn't help but voice his stereotypes against those he called "the negro". He remarked:

"Eloquent of a symmetry, a vitality, a delicacy of form directly reminiscent of Ancient Greece, and a proof that, once upon a time, a race far superior in strain to the negro, had settled here."

L. Frobenius, The Voice of Africa, 1913, pp.88-89.

In other words, Frobenius is on one hand admitting that these works were created right in this environment, but on the other hand he is expressing the European prejudices of the time -- that negros are supposed to be dummies.

There is no other known reason (at least from his publication) for this conlusion other than the fact that he personally couldn't believe how negros could possibly rival Europeans.

But how true is his hasty and laughable conclusion that some "aboriginal whites" had first settled here before the so-called "negroes" later came in? -- A kind of opposite to what you guys are rooting for. Lol.

Archaeological finds from around Yorubaland have come to show that "negroids" have occupied Yorubaland even in as early as c.8000 BC.

Moreover, the Ife artworks themselves (which are clearly aimed at naturalism) do not show the slightest doubt that the human sculptures represent sub-Saharan Africans, considering their obvious facial phenotypes.

In fact, the facial parallel striations on many of the human sculptures are clearly reminiscent of the same facial striation of certain group somewhere in today's Nothern Nigeria among whom the practice have survived till modern times.

[Refer to ... for details on this.]

In sum, the Ife artworks were made on the soil of sub-Saharan Africa (even according to your authority here: L. Frobenius), and by sub-Saharan Africans (considering the foregoing argument).

[If interested, refer to this link ... for a more detailed comment where I laid out the argument showing that the Ife artworks were made in Ife by the Ifes].


(3) Lol. These productions and feats are not unique to the Yorubas (among Africans) or the Middle Easterns (among non-Africans).

You've only chosen to ignore other ancient societies (apart from Yorubaland and Middle East) where same feats flowered.

Will your conclusion remain the same even if you find, for example, that some other ancient West African societies also mined corals?

Will your conclusion remain the same even if you find, for example, that the Mali Empire was the primary source of raw copper importation into Ife in the 1300s?

yoruba is different brother don't merge us with bunch of animals that our forefather detest with passion if you do so our ancestors would be raining curses in their graves . middle east or no middle east don't lump us up with bunch of half monkey half human

Had to post this again in reply to your comment above. My "OmoOlofin" account was locked out as I tried to modify my last reply to you (now deleted) to include some Yoruba orthography.

The comment is shown below with its intended modification:

Our emotions are miserably helpless and irrelevant in the face of facts.

Modified:
Interestingly, as I was just randomly flipping through some pages now, I stumbled upon a line in the oriki of Ajibogun (the first Obokun-Ijesa and a grandson of Oduduwa).

The specific line in the oriki discribes Ajibogun as "okunrin dudu ori eshin".

How could this possibly be if his grandfather is indeed Arabo or Jew? Lol.

AnambraIstSon:


Omo you dey try o, these confused African-Jews will waste your time. They have no facts which are limited but they have endless conjectures from imaginative composition.

The sad part is that, the Obalufon guys is from my hometown. Rather than going home to interview his people he's on the internet imagining he's a Jew.

Pathetic thread.

Lol! Thanks much brother. I think they took their foreign religions to another level.

Olu317:


... The tradition that the Yorùbá came from Mecca is expounded in Samuel Johnson’s work, The History of the Yorubas, which has become a reference point for subsequent works on Yorùbá history...

Lol. You seem to have a penchant for pasting comments (though long but) which misses the whole point.

The crux and foundation of your whole post lies in your comment which I have isolated above.

In an attempt to reply my comment, you simply repeated your very (foundational) point that I've already debunked in the same comment you're replying.

You alluded to the fact that the foreign origin hypothesis (about Oduduwa and the Yorubas) was first initiated by Rev. S. Johnson.

You also alluded to the fact that every other similar foreign origin hypotheses (about Oduduwa and the Yorubas) are simply subsequent variety of followings in the foot step of S. Johnson.

And then you gave a long listing of these subsequent vareity of followings in the foot step of S. Johnson.

I have already mentioned all these in the same comment you're replying.

However, you failed to address the very fundamental issue I raised which demolishes all your pastings.

This issue has to do with the sources of (and the influences on) Johnson's conlusion of foreign origin.

In other words, from where did this pioneer (i.e. S. Johnson) get this particular account of foreign origin of Oduduwa/Yoruba?

In case you haven't asked yourself this fundamental question before, the time to do that is now.

But to make things easier for you, S. Johnoson didn't get this account of Yoruba/Oduduwa origin from Ife.

Neither did he get it from Oyo, nor did he get it from any Yoruba subgroup for that matter.

"Fom where then" you may ask. In fact, S. Johnson got this particular account, of Yoruba/Oduduwa origin, from a Fulani man -- Sultan Bello of Sokoto.

Interestingly, prior to this account from Sultan Bello, such an account of the roots of Oduduwa/the Yorubas being outside of Yorubaland is conspiciously and absolutely unheard of among the Yorubas themselves.

The only available account that was widely known to the Yorubas about their own origin is as contained in the Yoruba myth of creation & origin, the earliest known version of which states in summary that:

God sent a certain heavenly beign named Oko to proceed to the earth to establish a home for humankind. Oko and his retinue of aides, with whom he left heaven, are said to have descended to a place known simply as Ooyelagbo. This region of descent is said to be a place characterized by a very large body of water.

Migration from the east is absolutely out of the question. It was alien to the Yorubas' history and thoughts about their own origin.

Although myths are over-the-centuries exaggerations, modifications and distortions of some kernel of very ancient truth and fact; historians (unlike lay-persons) consider it a very important task to discern these nucleus of ancient truths and facts.

A patient and careful look through the many versions of the Yoruba myth of creation & origin (including the latter versions which feature Oduduwa, Obatala, et al.) reveals this basic kernel of ancient truth and fact which have been wrapped up over the centuries by layers of exaggerations, modifications, and distortions.

This kernel of truth and fact which appears in all the different versions of the Yoruba myth of origin & creation are:

(a) The Yorubas consistently assert (through all the many versions of the myth) that they are not originally alien to their present region.

(b) The Yorubas consistently assert (through all the many versions of the myth) that their first homeland (in this region) is a place characterized by a very large body of water.

These logical deductions from the extant Yoruba traditions is clearly in reasonable agreement with the scientific conlusions reached unanimously today by the body of historical scholarship -- both indigenous and non-indigenous.

This scientific conclusion says that the first and original home of the ethnic and linguistic group of people known today as the Yorubas is to be found within today's Nigeria specifically around the Niger-Benue confluence.

What about the man Oduduwa? What does Yoruba traditional accounts say about his roots before Sultan Bello (followed by S. Johnson) made him into an Arab?

I have earlier touched on this where I cited S. A. Akintoye's reference to the traditional accounts about the roots of the man Oduduwa. See below one more time:

"An examination of most of the traditions fairly definitively establish that Oduduwa was born in the stranger's area of Ife to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the traditions of resentment in the strangers' area, and that his youth and Obatala's youth (both of them "sons of the soil") were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife. The traditional accounts put both men in the era of conflicts from its beginning to its end, obviously because of their extremely dominant roles in its latter stages. In the light of this, it is reasonably certain that the group which became popularly known as the Oduduwa group in the traditions was led to the Ife area not by Oduduwa but by his parents or grand parents."

S.A. Akintoye, "A History of The Yoruba People", p.62.

These indeed are the actual issues which you have unfortunately avoided.

Olu317:

...

The Yoruba sound system has a total of eighteen consonants, fifteen of which have close equivalents in the Arabic sound system while one, the Yoruba g is pronounced much like the Egyptian ج as in gamal ﻞﻤﺟ rather than like the Arabic غ as in ghazal, hence its representation by the Arabic غ is mere approximation. The two Yoruba sounds that have no equivalent Arabic sounds are the plosive bi-labials p (kp) and gb which are respectively represented in Yoruba Þajamõ by three diacritical marks under the b, and three over the Arabic ع. Although these two Yoruba sounds have no exact simple equivalents in Arabic, the phonemes, which are combined in pronouncing each of them are close to some Arabic sounds. For example, the Yoruba p is pronounced by a subtle combination of the k and b, in which a faint, almost imperceptible k sound is overshadowed by a heavily plosive b sound. Similarly, the Yoruba gb sound is a subtle combination of a faint g sound with a heavily plosive b sound. It is noteworthy that only very few non-Yoruba, or speakers of related languages, are able to accurately realize these two sounds in pronunciation. It is the b sound that is often substituted by such foreigners for these two Yoruba sounds. In general, communication is not often impaired by such mispronunciation, especially when in context. Indeed, until the recent modification/reformation of the Yoruba Þajamõ about which we shall discuss shortly, even Yoruba anjemi writers have represented both sounds by the Arabic b (ب), as in: ﻮﻜﺑ ﺐﺒﺳ ﻮﻋ a o si gbo pooku39 and in ﺎﺘﺑﺎﺘﺑ patapata.

...

The sophistication and the naturalism of the artwork excavated at If made Frobenius (1913:345) conclude that he had discovered the survival of an ancient West Mediterranean colony on Africa’s Atlantic coast: I maintain I have re-discovered Atlantis, the ‘Emporium of the culture'of the West on the further sides of the straits of Gibraltar, that Atlantis, whose walls, as Solon informs us, held within them Poseidon’s Castle, where there was a wealth of luxuriant vegetation… I lay claim to Yoruba, so tropically lush and rank in its vegetation… this Yoruba, I assert, is Atlantis, the home of Poseidon’s posterity, the Sea-God by them named Olókun; the land of a people whom Solon declared: They have even extended their lordship over Egypt and Tyrrhene!

Frobenius’ hypothesis is that there must have been some Etruscan influence on the Atlantic coast in the thirteenth century BC the relics of which he found at Ilé-Ife. The people must have got to the west coast by way of the sea through fleets from North Africa and the remains of that Mediterranean culture can be found in different aspects of Yorùbá art and culture such as the use of the handloom, the bow and arrow, and drums with a distinctive North African imprint. Others include the construction of water storage and of houses with ridge roofs as in North Africa.

Argument against Leo Frobenuis:

The hypothesis has been considered untenable and a guess, not only in archaeological circle but also in historical and religious. However, it should be noted that there is often confusion between the locations, northeast of Africa and Middle East in the accounts and references are sometimes vague.

...

Radio carbon date of 350 Bc or 500Bc as being speculated isn't accurate but a fanciful assumption: Art in Ancient Ife, Birthplace of the Yoruba Suzanne Preston Blier

.... Susan Blier says and agreed , ‘for the period of Ife’s major artistic and cultural innovation, along with periods prior to (pre-Flo An early Ife date of c. 350 bce. purportedly based on radiocarbon (Folster in Ozanne 1969:32), cited by both Ogundiran (2002, p.c.) and Drewal (2009:80), has been rejected by Frank Willett (2004) and others for lack of supporting scientific evidence. I concur with this assessment.'

Mind you, Ozanne ( 1969:32)was one of the author you cited and the date of radio carbon on Ileife had been rejected in the scholarly world.

...

(1) Your comment here is obviously and largely a continuation of your repitition of S. Johnson's account on the origin of the Yorubas/Oduduwa, as well as a continuation of your listing of the subsequent vareity of followings in the foot step of S. Johnson.

But the bigger issue you've avoided, as I have demonstrated above, is the apparent big question marks around the source of S. Johnson's account, and the conspicuous and absolute absense of such account among the Yorubas themselves prior to S. Johnson.

(2) Regarding your comment on Leo Frobenius' remark, refer to my penultimate reply to Obalufon where I dealt with that in some very clear details.

(3) Having said that, the aspect of your continued comment here which particularly interests me is where you cited S.P. Blier's "Art in Ancient Ife".

Your quotation of S.P Blier's words is actually from page 81, and your quotation is accurate.

However, the conclusion you've drawn from the quotation is unfortunately and terribly mistaken.

Your conclusion is that the early Ife radiocarbon date of c.350 BC, "as being speculated", is an assumption that has "been rejected in the scholarly world".

Interesting! Lol.

First of all, the c.350 BC date can not be a radiocarbon date and still be an assumption at the same time. You have to make up your mind here.

Secondly, the actual issue being discussed here which seems to have eluded your grasp is clarified in two things, namely: (1) The endnote to the same statement you've quoted from S.P. Blier, and (2) P. Ozanne's interpretation of the radiocarbon date of the archaeological finds.

Beginning with P. Ozannes' interpretation of the date. First, no scholar denies that the c.350 BC date was the result of radiocarbon dating of finds from Ife.

No there is no such denial in case you're thinking along that line. The actual issue here which F. Willett instead sees (and which S.P. Blier has simply echoed) is the seemingly extreme extent to which P. Ozanne took the date -- that is, what he took it to mean.

"According to Paul Ozanne, there were many settlements established there [in the Ife bowl] by the fourth century century BC."

P. Ozanne, 1969 cited in S.A. Akintoye, "A History of The Yoruba People", p.14.

The very issue which Willett sees here is not about whether there wasn't any artifact/find that have indeed been radicarbon dated to c.350BC.

Rather, the issue he sees here is that these dated finds are so little and so scanty to reasonably and sufficiently warrant the conclusion that "many settlements" have been established in the Ife bowl by that date.

The following endnote from S.P. Blier makes this contention even clearer. In relation to her agreement with F. Willett on this, she notes in endnote 37 that:

"As important as the Pre-Florescence Era appears to have been in Ife, we have little by way of scientific or material evidence from related excavations, much of this data coming instead from undated local artifacts, regional excavations, and Ife oral histories."

In sum, there is no such thing as your self-contradictory conclusion that the radiocarbon date of c.350 BC has being rejected in some "scholarly world". Lol.

No, what F. Willett and S.P. Blier reject instead is not the c.350 BC radiocarbon date -- that will be an absurd thing to do.

Rather, what these two reject is the idea that the radiocarbon date of c.350 BC (for very few archaeological finds from Ife) necessary leads to the conclusion that many settlements have flowered in Ife by that date.

In fact, other scholars have considered these "little" c.350 BC archaeological finds in the light of other corroborating scientific evidence (such as linguistic evidence and many collateral archaeological data from other parts of Yorubaland), thus leading them to continue to uphold P. Ozanne's conclusion that many settlements have indeed flowered in the Ife bowl by that date.

Some of such scholars (that I'm at least aware of) who considered other scientific evidences too include: Robin Horton (1979), Akin Ogundiran (2002), Henry J. Drewal (2009), and S. Adebanji Akintoye (2010).

(4) Just to give this reply a light feel and to give you something interesting to respond to, I noticed the Arabic texts in your comment and I couldn't help but smile.

You obviously have no idea what's wrong with those supposedly Arabic words present in your comment.

This blunder quickly gives you away as merely lifting your replies mindlessly from elsewhere without much clue as to what's going on, and usually without addressing what you wish to reply to.

The Arabic words in your comment are so badly pasted that instead of showing the original you copied, they show a mirror image of the original, reflected accross the y-axis (or the line "x = 0" ). Lol.

Had you known the slightest thing about Arabic, your comment wouldn't have been flooded with such bungles.

Allow the guy to continue his debate with decorum and intellect as he is doing. I actually like his way of putting across his ideas without any abuse or vulgar language. He is a true Omoluabi. Why would you think debating with us demean him? I disagree with his views though.

AnambraIstSon:


Omo you dey try o, these confused African-Jews will waste your time. They have no facts which are limited but they have endless conjectures from imaginative composition.

The sad part is that, the Obalufon guys is from my hometown. Rather than going home to interview his people he's on the internet imagining he's a Jew.

Pathetic thread.

First, Hebrews or Near East origin is not the same thing as Jews. If I may ask, why do you think an Hebrew cannot bear that Oriki?

TAO11:
Had to post this again in reply to your comment above. My "OmoOlofin" account was locked out as I tried to modify my last reply to you (now deleted) to include some Yoruba orthography.

The comment is shown below with its intended modification:

Our emotions are miserably helpless and irrelevant in the face of facts.

Modified:
Interestingly, as I was just randomly flipping some pages now, I stumbled upon a line in the oriki of Ajibogun (the first Obokun-Ijesa and a grandson of Oduduwa).

The specific line in the oriki discribes Ajibogun as "okunrin dudu ori eshin".

How could this possibly be if his grandfather is indeed Arabo or Jew? Lol.

I can see you want to unravel Yoruba origin through peer review historical works. It is good, but are you aware that those historical experts do not have similar views about Yoruba origin? Some wrote we are from Ife originally while others say we are migrants. Please how do interpret Lange's work on Oyo origin? I believe you must have read his work.

TAO11:


Lol. You seem to have a penchant for pasting comments (though long but) which misses the whole point.

The crux and foundation of your whole post lies in your comment which I have isolated above.

In an attempt to reply my comment, you simply repeated your very (foundational) point that I've already debunked in the same comment you're replying.

You alluded to the fact that the foreign origin hypothesis (about Oduduwa and the Yorubas) was first initiated by Rev. S. Johnson.

You also alluded to the fact that every other similar foreign origin hypotheses (about Oduduwa and the Yorubas) are simply subsequent variety of followings in the foot step of S. Johnson.

And then you gave a long listing of these subsequent vareity of followings in the foot step of S. Johnson.

I have already mentioned all these in the same comment you're replying.

However, you failed to address the very fundamental issue I raised which demolishes all your pastings.

This issue has to do with the sources of (and the influences on) Johnson's conlusion of foreign origin.

In other words, from where did this pioneer (i.e. S. Johnson) get this particular account of foreign origin of Oduduwa/Yoruba?

In case you haven't asked yourself this fundamental question before, the time to do that is now.

But to make things easier for you, S. Johnoson didn't get this account of Yoruba/Oduduwa origin from Ife.

Neither did he get it from Oyo, nor did he get it from any Yoruba subgroup for that matter.

"Fom where then" you may ask. In fact, S. Johnson got this particular account, of Yoruba/Oduduwa origin, from a Fulani man -- Sultan Bello of Sokoto.

Interestingly, prior to this account from Sultan Bello, such an account of the roots of Oduduwa/the Yorubas being outside of Yorubaland is conspiciously and absolutely unheard of among the Yorubas themselves.

The only available account that was widely known to the Yorubas about their own origin is as contained in the Yoruba myth of creation & origin, the earliest known version of which states in summary that:

God sent a certain heavenly beign named Oko to proceed to the earth to establish a home for humankind. Oko and his retinue of aides, with whom he left heaven, are said to have descended in a place known simply as Ooyelagbo. This region of descent is said to be a place characterized by a very large body water.

Migration from the east is absolutely out of the question. It was alien to the Yorubas' history and thoughts about their own origin.

Although myths are over-the-centuries exaggerations, modifications and distortions of some kernel of truth and fact; historians (unlike lay-persons) consider it a very important task to discern these nucleus of truths and facts.

A patient and careful look through the many versions of the Yoruba myth of creation & origin (including the latter versions which feature Oduduwa, Obatala, et al.) reveals this basic kernel of truth and fact which have been wrapped up over the centuries by layers of exaggerations, modifications, and distortions.

This kernel of truth and fact which appears in all the different versions of the Yoruba myth of origin & creation are:

(a) The Yorubas consistently assert (through all the many versions of the myth) that they are not originally alien to their present region.

(b) The Yorubas consistently assert (through all the many versions of the myth) that their first homeland (in this region) is a place characterized by a very large body of water.

These logical deductions from the extant Yoruba traditions is clearly in reasonable agreement with the scientific conlusions reached unanimously today by the body of historical scholarship -- both indigenous and non-indigenous.

This scientific conclusion says that the first and original home of the ethnic and linguistic group of people known today as the Yorubas is to be found within today's Nigeria specifically around the Niger-Benue confluence.

What about the man Oduduwa? What does Yoruba traditional accounts say about his roots before Sultan Bello (followed by S. Johnson) made him into an Arab?

I have earlier touched on this where I cited S. A. Akintoye's reference to the traditional accounts about the roots of the man Oduduwa. See below one more time:

"An examination of most of the traditions fairly definitively establish that Oduduwa was born in the stranger's area of Ife to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the traditions of resentment in the strangers' area, and that his youth and Obatala's youth (both of them "sons of the soil") were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife. The traditional accounts put both men in the era of conflicts from its beginning to its end, obviously because of their extremely dominant roles in its latter stages. In the light of this, it is reasonably certain that the group which became popularly known as the Oduduwa group in the traditions was led to the Ife area not by Oduduwa but by his parents or grand parents."

S.A. Akintoye, "A History of The Yoruba People", p.62.

These indeed are the actual issues which you have unfortunately avoided.

As you have said, they are foreign religions. Our ancestors did not know anything about Christianity or islam but isese. These two religions actually came from isese. The point is those who link Yoruba to Near East actually use our isese to decipher the code. One expert, can't remember his name now, said it is either Hebrews borrowed our isese into their religion or vice versa, or they are of the same people. Our isese actually betray and gave us away as migrants from Near East. Although we have forgotten about isese, the religion of our ancestors, and follow after foreign gods which our ancestors did not know as prophesied, we will still go back to it and rediscover ourselves.

TAO11:


Lol! Thanks much brother. I think they took their foreign religions to another level.

adee17:

(1) First, Hebrews or Near East origin is not the same thing as Jews.

(2) If I may ask, why do you think an Hebrew cannot bear that Oriki?

(1) See Encyclopaedia Britannica at the link below to read up on the technical difference (if any at all) between the two:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hebrew

One is simply a descendant of the other. No more, no less!

But guess what! The point I made in that comment you're replying here is not uniquely directed at Hebrew/Jew -- notice that my precise words there said "Arabo or Jew".

In other words, the point there is about any Middle Eastern in general.

(2) If you noticed, my point about the oriki is actually a question asked.

Don't you think then that what I would appreciate is an answer to my question, and not a question to my question?

But to answer you, consider the attached image below:

Take this image to any Yoruba village you can reach, and interview the locals as much as you can -- asking them if this is an okunrin dudu or okunrin pupa.

Yes, you can already imagine the extremely consistent replies you will get.

And this is because, even those who are not in any way remotely close to this man in lightness are regarded by our people as eyan pupa.

The Yorubas can not possibly -- by any stretch of the imagination -- describe a Middle-Eastern's grand-son as "okunrin dudu".

And this point here is not even my central argument on this thread.

TAO11:


(1) See Encyclopaedia Britannica at the link below to read up on the technical difference (if any at all) between the two:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hebrew

One is simply a descendant of the other. No more, no less!

But guess what! The point I made in that comment you're replying here is not uniquely directed at Hebrew/Jew -- notice that my precise words there said "Arabo or Jew".

In other words, the point there is about any Middle Eastern in general.

(2) If you noticed, my point about the oriki is actually a question asked.

Don't you think then that what I would appreciate is an answer to my question, and not a question to my question?

But to answer you, consider the attached image below:

Take this image to any Yoruba village you can reach, and interview the locals as much as you can -- asking them if this is an okunrin dudu or okunrin pupa.

Yes, you can already imagine the extremely consistent replies you will get.

And this is because, even those who are not in any way remotely close to this man in lightness are regarded by our people as eyan pupa.

The Yorubas can not possibly -- by any stretch of the imagination -- describe a Middle-Eastern's grand-son as "okunrin dudu".

And this point here is not even my central argument on this thread.

hey!! who is the white beast ...

people referred to as Yoruba might be aboriginal people of ife-ile the epicenter of creation of modern human before the arrival of bantus from south Africa forest or Yoruba are product of Sudan /Egypt migration towards due to desertification or war. There is no record of us at any point in history we were naked people even our deities are clothed trying merge us with cannibals and naked people is what is giving me concern.. The closest people to yorubas are the nupes ,igala bariba all claim Egypt migration .. even far away mande .soninke and bambaras ,Dogon Senegal claim Egypt

adee17:

(1) I can see you want to unravel Yoruba origin through peer review historical works. It is good, but are you aware that those historical experts do not have similar views about Yoruba origin?

(2) Some wrote we are from Ife originally while others say we are migrants.

(3) Please how do interpret Lange's work on Oyo origin? I believe you must have read his work.

(1) I am not trying to unravel what is already out there. That would be pointless.

As it stands today, I am not aware of any scientific conclusion on the origin of the Yorubas which disagrees with the fact that the Yorubas as a distinct ethnic and linguistic group of people first emerged some 6,000 years ago from a region roughly around the Niger-Benue confluence from where they continued to slowly drift southwards and westwards over thousands of years.

As I have shown in a comment above, this scientific conclusion is in reasonable agreement with the historical gist inherent in the Yorubas' traditional account of their own origin.

(2) The scientific point about this present day Ile-Ife (which is even agreed in the corpus of odu-Ifa to be a latter-day Ife) is not about it been the location from where "Yorubas" fist emerged as a distinct ethnic and linguistic group of people.

No, the point about this location is that it is the Yoruba settlement which first evolved a very high level of economic, political, religious, and social complexity.

Ile-Ife thus grew, over the centuries, to emerge as a power in the West Africa forest. From there, Kingdom-founding migrations began rolling out to other parts of Yorubaland (and beyond).

The idea of the Kingdom-founding migrations out of Ile-Ife, was to bring illumination and civilization (e.g. the concept of kingship institution, sculptural art tradition, etc.) to other Yoruba (and non-Yoruba) subgroups already inhabiting other parts of the region.

So, the widespread statement among different Yoruba Kingdoms along the lines: "We're from Ile-Ife", is not understood in academia to mean that such region was necessarily desolate prior to the Kingdom-founding migration from Ife.

Rather, it is understood to mean that a group of Kingdom-founding Ile-Ife prince (and his followers) have come upon an aboriginal Yoruba subgroup (who also, like the Ifes, originally emerged from some region around Niger-Benue confluence) in order to introduce the concept of monarchy, thus founding a Kingdom in their midst.

I hope I have clarified how the migration from Ile-Ife is understood in academia, as well as how it differs from the origin and dispersal of the Yorubas, as one ethnic and linguistic group, from the regions around the Niger-Benue confluence with today's Nigeria.

NB: Note that the scientific conclusion that the Yorubas emerged originally from a region around the Niger-Benue confluence is not in conflict with extant Yoruba traditional accounts which consistently claims that the Yorubas emerged around some very large body of water as aboriginals.


As an appendix to the foregoing, it may interest you to know that, till date, there are a number of towns, somewhere around the Niger-Benue confluence, called "Ife".

For one of such Ifes, the title of its ruler is still called "Onu" till date, and one of its chief deities is still called "Olojo" till date.

(3) I haven't read the work you're referring to here, but since, as you've indicated, it is about "Oyo origin" -- a Yoruba subgroup --- then I have no doubt that the work should allude to both the Oyo traditional accounts and the scientific analysis.

First, like I have clarified earlier in point (2) an important difference must be borne in mind between: (a) The emergence of the actual settlement (of the distinctive Yoruba subgroup now known as Oyo-Yoruba), and (b) The Kingdom later founded in their midst (by the Ife migrant group) now known as the Oyo Kingdom, Empire, etc.

As would have been realized by now, case (a) here fits into both the general oral traditional Yoruba account of their origin, and the scientific conclusion, both of which point to the fact that the first home of the Yoruba people as one ethnic and linguistic group is somewhere around the Niger-Benue confluence.

It is from that centre that the actual settlement of the distinctive Oyo-Yoruba subgroup was first populated, just as is the case with every other distinctive Yoruba subgroups in their respective settlements.


Regading the founding of the Oyo Kingdom on the other hand, the best known and widely accepted traditional account has it that Oranmiyan (most definitely with his group) embarked upon a Kingdom-founding migration in the region of the distinctive Yoruba subgroup now known as Oyo-Yoruba.

He is said to have continued into the far northwest of the region until he reached a frontier region comprising of not only the Oyo-Yoruba subgroup, but also of some non-Yorubas, viz. some Baribas and some Nupes all living interspersed.

Unifying some aboriginal settlements of Oyo-Yoruba, Nupes, and Baribas; he began to establish his Kingdom.

Other lesser known traditional account has it that the Oyo Kingdom was founded by a Nupe hunter from the Nupe town of Ogodo. This particular account was recorded by Sir Moses E. Lijadu towards the end of the ?1800s.

Another lesser known traditional account recorded by Leo Frobenius during his visits to Youbaland in the 1900s, has it that, there were two successive dynasties leading to the Oyo Kingdom, one originating from the Nupe, and the other (and last) from the Bariba.

Aribidesi Usman, an illustrious scholar, combing through and harmonizing these traditions has shown (supported by Yoruba, Nupe, and Bariba traditions) that Yoruba, Nupe, and Bariba settlers and settlements were already closely interspersed by at least the eleventh century, and that further and further south from this frontier area, Oyo-Yoruba settlements increasingly predominated.

He also alludes to the fact that Oyo-traditions are strikingly clear about the fact that Oranmiyan didn't stop near, amidst exclusive Oyo-Yoruba settlemnts, in search for the right location for his Kingdom. Rather, he is said to have stopped amidst some Yoruba, some Nupe, and some Bariba interspersed settlements.

He is said in same Oyo-traditions to have been helped by a Bariba chief in search of good location. He is also said to have become a son inlaw to a Nupe chief.

The conclusion, by Aribidesi Usman, is that his original Kingdom actually comprises of the three early groups, and that this fact explains why it is noticed that Oyo-Ile, as it grew, contained many Bariba and Nupe families, subjects of the Alaafin, who played significant roles in Oyo-Ile's history.

Obalufon:
hey!! who is the white beast ...

Lol, he is some random Hebrew/Israeli/Jew I found online to drive home a point.