₦airaland Forum

PastorAIO:
How's this for reconciling the differences? They heard a voice. The voice they heard was not necessarily the 'voice of him that spake to me'. Maybe they heard Paul's voice responding but in their discombobulated state of mind they couldn't tell it was him, they just heard a kind of booming all around.

It's logically apparent that the voice was of him that spake. This your own style ehn

EzioAuditore:
No! It is a persons ability to do the right thing in the most testing circumstances that makes you worthy of either heaven or hell. That's pretty fair to me.

Ok. Just this question. Does God not know what one will eventually choose in the end?

EzioAuditore

Whatever choice one chooses to make has already been foreknown by God, good or bad.

The determining factor of what one eventually chooses is the person's condition at that time and his or her environment.

Take for example, Adam and Eve wouldn't have sinned if there was no Lucifer and forbidden tree, condition and environment.

They had the choice to reject or accept Luci's voice, right?

But then, they accepted his voice and gave in to his enticing words.

And remember that "God knows everything even before it happens"

So consequently He had known what would EVENTUALLY happen to Adam and Eve with the presence of Luci and the forbidden tree.

Now if He was trying to play loving and fair, He would change the condition, i.e take away the forbidden tree and Luci.

But He left them anyway, knowing what would happen in the end.

And it's not fair.

EzioAuditore:
smh, tiny minds! 1st question, do you know which choice you're supposed to make according to your destiny?

Re-frame your question please. I don't get it.

EzioAuditore:
Ooh you twirly dumb f*ck! I should have just left you in your pit of ignorance! Just as you made the decision to exhibit your lack of comprehension and nativity you will atone for all of your actions! Do you know your destiny? Have you seen what was written down for you? Have you tried doing something and an Angel comes down and says that's not what you're supposed to do because you're going to hell or heaven? God already knows what you're going to do, it's been written, but you don't know what that is. Here you have a choice, and even though God knows what it's going to be you still had the free will to make a choice here and that's what you chose, because that's who you are, no one forced you, on earth you had the decision to do it or not do it, no one influenced you. I never should have expected your tiny tiny ninny mind to understand! Honestly if you can't understand how this works then it's a surprise you're still alive, because only an assorted bellend thinks this way.

I think Frank317's post is too complex for your brain to absorb, but I'm gonna help you now, dummy.

If truely we have a choice to choose good or bad, does God still not know what you'll choose?

...




































I'm giving you time to absorb the question...



Remember, He's Omniscient - He knows all that yesterday, today and tomorrow hold...





Ok.. If He does... Then we are playing the role He already foreknew, written destiny.



If He doesn't... He's not Omscient then, and He's different from the type of God the Bible writer paints Him, e.g

Psalm 139:4
New Living Translation
You know what I am going to say even before I say it, LORD.

Or a "better" translation
International Standard Version
Even before I have formed a word with my tongue, you, LORD, know it completely!

So, if the guy eventually stole the watch, God shouldn't be surprize.

Again, Isa 46:10

New Living Translation
Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish.

Lol.. The both.

Rapmoney:
Do u hv a problem? That's just a random pic.

What I saw there was profile pic, not random pic

When she comes, watch if she'll do all the "advances". If she does, like "forcing you again", I advise you don't have any fun. But don't act too mean so as not to erase future fun (future here is some months after, when you are sure she's not pregnant afterall.) And even the future shouldn't be without protection. Something asides pregnancy might be involved. The girl sef

Twaci too?

RottenTomato:
The girl of my dream

Twaci see the guy that's falling for you

It escaped from GEJ's farm

Cassyrooy Horpeyemmi66 Pes13 Augster DrHost...

See these people sha

Next..

Twaci?? Who be that?

benatex:
2. The JackersYou don't wanna mess with these guys and their 'books'. They spend 12hours+ reading textbooks, notes, materials andthey never get tired reading them. Theymove from their respective halls to class, to the library, to the academics and back to their halls. Some don't evensleep their rooms. They look malnourished at times, with bulgy eyes and their backpacks are full of books.

Mostly MBBS peeps.

Image123:
Absolutely nothing wrong with the narratives. Requires just a bit of common sense, you don't even need to be spiritual or a scholar. Also important is the fact that the significant parts of the narrative is very clear; that Paul a sinner met the Lord on his way to Damascus and received the gift of eternal life and a commission as an apostle.
The first query on stand or fall is simple.When someone falls, it's common logic for him to stand up again. You don't need a PhD to figure that. They fell seeing the light and later stood. Paul meanwhile was having a conversation before verse 7.
On hearing and not hearing, it's common language. I can hear you and yet not hear you. Like on phone or due to far distance, I can hear your voice and still say "sorry I can't hear you, speak louder or repeat your statement. That isn't a lie or contradiction. Even when giving instructions, one can ask "do you hear?" Meaning, is that clear.

Haha.. Is that the way you get around problem? Stop skipping and calm down to see the contradictions

cassyrooy:
Baba, where the airtime wey you dey take substitute cake for online friends?


BTW! Bonne Anniversaire!


Welcome back!

LOL.. So you self dey the group

dara319:
unwilling......i guess @ prOton....

Yh. Unwillingly. How have you been?

johnydon22:
Am impressed at the dumb dumber dumbest analogy i have ever seen on nairaland.. "hearing something but not seeing it means not hearing it" hahahahahaha i don die ooo pr0ton come hold me before i faint here..

Abeg no faint oo

When I first read the sentence I had to ask a guy beside me just to be sure that I'm actually okay

This is another argument for another thread. You can create a thread for it.

malvisguy212:
if you want to talk about peter dispute with Paul you can create a thread and demand for answer;
Galatians 2:12-13
For prior to the coming of certain men
from James, he used to eat with the
Gentiles; but when they came, he began
to withdraw and hold himself aloof,
fearing the party of the circumcision.
And the rest of the Jews joined him in
hypocrisy, with the result that even
Barnabas was carried away by their
hypocrisy.

Even peter know what he was doing is wrong that why he withdraw himself.

"but should write to them to
abstain from the things polluted
by idols, and from sexual
immorality, and from what has
been strangled, and from blood."
Acts 15:20, ESV

"But when I saw that their conduct
was not in step with the truth of
the gospel, I said to Cephas
before them all, 'If you, though a
Jew, live like a Gentile and not
like a Jew, how can you force the
Gentiles to live like Jews?'” Gal.
2:14, ESV
(regarding abstaining from meat sacrificed to idols) "He requireth nothing at their hands but that which they were bound to do by brotherly concord." -Calvin's Commentary on Acts
"his conduct was greatly
aggravated by compelling the
Gentiles to observe Jewish
ceremonies, while he, being a
Jew, left himself at liberty. The
law was given to Jews, not to
Gentiles; so that he argues from
the less to the greater...he
compelled the Gentiles, by
withdrawing from their
communion, unless they chose to
submit to the yoke of the law"
Calvin's Commentary on Galatians
It seems that James was requiring
the Gentiles to live like Jews in
order to keep "brotherly concord."
Though nothing wrong in itself
with the meat, the Jews see it as
wrong so let's abstain to keep the
Gentile & Jewish church united. (a
lesson in our day regarding
alcohol consumption among
brothers?)

The context in eph2:15 is ONE IN CHRIST. The context does not indicating abandoned the law, it about one UNION.infacte Paul himself said this;

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither
slave nor free, nor is there male and
female, for you are all one in Christ
Jesus.
Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision
means anything; what counts is the new
creation.

The law cannot saved us but it is the instruments which God will used to saved us, the law is to revealed our sinful nature,without the law I will not known "adultery" so when Paul mention we are One in christ, it indicating that we should look up to christ as a perfect example in keeping the law, infacte the context does not say we should abolished anything, read from verse one too the end.

Many christians cult are misinterpreting the bible, if you want to understand the bible, first understand the context.

malvisguy212:
what do you mean by "their"? We are not talking about two different word but ONE and it's the word "hear" and the word (hear) has two different meaning but if you pay close attention to the meaning,they are indicating the same thing. [size=20]hearing the voice and do not see who is talking is the same thing as I do not hear.[/size]

What? Johnydon22 is that true?

RobinHez:
how Futa thread?

No market.

Hehe I unfollowed this thread ni sha

See Uniben sha..

Una don reach 111.

malvisguy212:
very good, you agree, the two verse is talking about "hear" and not" understand" now this is my points, the word hear has two Greek meaning are;
" The genitive case is the
sense of "being aware but not
understanding", whereas the
other is in the sense of "you
heard it."

This two meaning are pointing to the same thing the word "hear" YOU HERED IT AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS AS GOOD AS YOU DID NOT HEARD IT.

The same Greek word is used in the two verses and their meanings should be the same. If the writer had wanted it different he would have used a different word to clear up confusion, especially when he said to be divinely inspired.

The encounter made Paul to be blind, he couldn't have seen there reaction or faces,but after the encounter, he could've known the people what happened,honestly I don't know how to put it, but trust me, there is no contradiction in there, the misunderstanding come from the Greek and English meaning of the word.

I am busy I may not be able tp reply you the way you preferred.peace.

There is. It's just irreconcileable.

malvisguy212:
which of the Paul teaching you don't believe? If you reject some Paul teaching then you must reject peter.

As to this salvation, the prophets who
prophesied of the grace that would
come to you made careful search and
inquiry, ( 1 Peter 1:10)
Therefore, gird your minds for action,
keep sober in spirit, fix your hope
completely on the grace to be brought
to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
( 1 Peter 1:13)

Here peter one of Jesus disciple and an eye witnesses quote Paul teaching of grace, if Paul were teaching lies, peter would've rebuke him, even Paul say if an angel or apostle preach different gospel,let him be accused.

So you don't know that Paul rebuked Peter in Gal. 2

Matthew (another eyewitness) even
quoted Jesus, " And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." (Matthew 16:18) if you reject Paul then you must reject peter and matthew.

You post contains flaws. The author of Matthew was never an eye witness. They (Matthew and Paul) also don't agree on so many things. For example, Matt 5:17 says Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, while Eph 2:15 says He came to abolish the law.

I can go on and on, Luke quote Paul and peter was among the disciples of Jesus.if Paul was contradicting Jesus, Luke will accused him and even peter, infacte peter was the head of the church there is no way the head will seat and watch the least of the apostle teach different messages.

Peter sees himself as the head, Paul sees him as nothing Gal. 2:6

Misogynist2014:
When something has been argued beyond doubt, any argument then sounds foolish.

Yhh.. Such as this one below:

Jesus calls us o’er the tumult
Of our life’s wild, restless, sea;
Day by day His sweet voice soundeth,
Saying, “Christian, follow Me!”
Jesus calls us from the worship
Of the vain world’s golden store,
From each idol that would keep us,
Saying, “Christian, love Me more!”
In our joys and in our sorrows,
Days of toil and hours of ease,
Still He calls, in cares and pleasures,
“Christian, love Me more than these!”
Jesus calls us! By Thy mercies,
Savior, may we hear Thy call,
Give our hearts to Thine obedience,
Serve and love Thee best of all.

malvisguy212:
you are the one who do not understand the meaning here. we are talking about the word "hear" and NOT" understand" you inserted understand on each verse just to proved your points which is wrong,nobody is talking about understand here.

Now I'm clear on what we are arguing about here.

On one verse they HEAR the voice but do not see who is talking and the other verse they did not HEAR the voice.

And that is not a contradiction to you? We are focusing on the word "hear" and not whether they understood what they heard or not.

" stood speechless, hearing a
voice, but seeing no man"

This does not mean they hear the voice [color=orange]meaning they understand.[/color] they did not understand that why they are speechless.

First, and again, since we are focusing on the word "hear" why should you say that they didn't hear the voice even when the verse says they did?

Second, what is it that they did not understand? How could they not understand something they had not heard? "They heard a voice, but they didn't understand" has more meaning than "They did not hear the voice, but didn't understand". If you are going for the former sentence, remember we are focusing on the word "hear" i.e whether they heard or not, and not whether they understood or not.

" and were afraid;
but they heard not the voice of him
that spake to me. "

Why are they afraid?they are aware of what is happening, if you do not hear a voice no need to be afraid

Are you trying to say they heard the voice even when the verse apparently says they didn't?

like I said earlier, this the meaning of the two verse;
"being aware but not
understanding",

It's rather: they heard the voice but didn't understand.

whereas the other is
in the sense of "you heard it."

and, according to they verse, they didn't hear the voice. Maybe you should reread the verses.

I want you to know this also;the first verse is the actual event that happened,and the second one is Paul narrate what happened.

Yeah.

Misogynist2014:
a) We accept they saw the light

Just as it's apparent from the verse.

b) Though they all fell to the earth, does that mean they couldn't have stood up again? Also, stood doesn't really mean standing up.
stood/stʊd/
past and past participle of stand.
stand/stand/
verb
1. have or maintain an upright position, supported
by one's feet.
2. (of an object, building, or settlement) be
situated in a particular place or position.
3. be in a specified state or condition.
4. withstand (an experience or test) without being
damaged.
5. be a candidate in an election.
6. act as umpire in a cricket match.
7. provide (food or drink) for (someone) at one's
own expense.

Which is more applicable? These other translation show that the men were standing in the real sense.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the men who were traveling with him on the road were standing amazed because they were hearing the sound only, but The Man was not visible to them.

International Standard Version
Meanwhile, the men who were traveling with Saul were standing speechless, for they heard the voice but didn't see anyone.

New International Version
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.

c) The solution to hearing of a voice can be found in NASB
" * Those with Saul saw the light, but did not understand the words spoken (NASB) - 22:9."

Have in mind that other early translations have it as hear, not understand. So why the later change?

hear Translate Button
[heer]
verb (used with object), heard [hurd] ( Show IPA ), hearing.
1.
to perceive by the ear:
Didn't you hear the doorbell?
2.
to learn by the ear or by being told; be informed of:
to hear news.

The above gives no merit to your argument.

d) We accept they saw no one.
Come quickly LORD!
@Jonydon22

Just as apparent as it is in the verses.

malvisguy212:
what do you understand here;
" The two verse you quote are related
with the same meaning. the case is
the sense of "being aware but not
understanding", whereas the other is
in the sense of "you heard it."

But their effect are different, right? If yes, then the Greek words must be different too. If they aren't, then you are only typing fallacy, because I see no reason why akouo which appeared 373 times in the NT and translated as hear,hearing and heard in wherever it appeared should be taken as understand in one exceptional verse if not for the purpose of deceit. The word "understand" appeared 52 times in the NT and it is only from Act 22:9 did it have its root word as akouo. You yourself should see the deceit if you are open-minded. Akouo never means "being aware but not understanding" It is always explictly "to hear". Quit the twisting or I won't reply if you insist on distorting the true meaning of the Greek word. Everyone will justify my action. The truth is crystal clear here.

But then you've only attempted one contradiction

malvisguy212:
People who have no assurance of their
salvation fear death. I know, since I was
afraid of death before I put my faith in
Jesus Christ. If there is no God, then
death would be merely a ceasing of
existence ,with nothing to fear. However, if Christianity is true, then those who do not believe should fear death, since the fate of believers and non-believers is quite different.

First, you stated that those who don't believe in God have no reason to fear death as what they only believe to be true is when they die their brain shuts down, they cease to live and nothing more afterwards. Then you went on again to say unbelievers fear death. How contradictory! This is not the question of whether Christianity is true or not. An unbeliver is an unbeliever. He doesn't believe and can never be afraid of death.

WHY JUDGMENT?
The consistency of the physical laws of
the universe are reflection of God's
unchangeable and righteous nature. In
order to be consistent and righteous, God must judge every behavior that is not consistent with His. Therefore, any
ungodly behavior must be judged and
condemned by God in order for Him to
retain His righteousness. A common
myth is that God "grades on the curve"
and "as long as I behave better than
most people, He will allow me into
heaven." God's righteousness is absolute, not relative.

Look around you. Isn't it part of physical laws and natural processes for humans to behave the way they do now? It is. And to your idea, these physical laws are the reflection of God's righteous and consistent nature. So we are the reflection of His righteous nature. How, then, can we be inconsistent with Him? Everything we do here are bound within the physical laws of the universal, thus we are always consistent and can never be inconsistent.

WHY FEAR?
All spiritual creatures ( angels, and humans) recognize that their spirits are eternal and that they will go through judgment of God, based upon their adherence to the laws of God. The Bible says that knowledge of God's existence and the eternal nature of the human spirit has been revealed to all people:
Ecclesiastes 3:11>>>>

He has made everything beautiful in
its time. He has also set eternity in
the hearts of men; yet they cannot
fathom what God has done from
beginning to end.

Again, this fear of judgement is only applicable to those who believe it, not to those (atheists) who don't.

NO FEAR;
There are many possibilities on the existence of God. Atheists say that
God doesn't exist and that death results
in the end of individual existence. There
should be nothing to fear from death,
since your brain just shuts down. Deists
say that God exists, but doesn't have any interests in humanity. So, there is no heaven/hell and death ends it all, as in atheism. Many other religions claim
a god or gods, but none seem to be
interested in punishing human beings.Islam say if your good deed outweigh your bad deed,you will be favour,although this seems like a punishment to sinner that may lead to fear but this ease up the fear (if I can do enough). It is only Christianity that says that death brings judgment to the unrepentant.

Again, this kind of fear is only applicable to those who believe it, not to those who don't.

So, if you go by the odds, either death brings the cessation of existence or some kind of paradise that is open for everybody. It is irrational to fear this kind of uncertainty. So, the only kind of uncertainty that should be feared is whether or not Christianity is true.

You call it uncertainty. That's what you think. But to us it'a certainty - Christianity is utterly fake.

ENDING FEAR;
If you want to relieve your fears about
death, you should try to determine if
Christianity is true or false. The
assignment is not too difficult. It isn't as
if you need to examine every religion on
the face of the earth - just one. Unlike
the other religions, which generally go
uncriticized, there are numerous
objections to Christianity, especially by
atheists. It's as if they know that
Christianity is the only religion that
seriously challenges their atheism. So,
you are going to live in fear and doubt
until you deal with the question of
whether Christianity is true or not. Visit
the atheists' websites. Visit the Christian
sites. Get informed and make a rational
decision.

At the bolded. Not close to what you think at all. Christianity is the one with the most absurd idea and the easiest to bash.

And yeah, if you eventually get fully convinced that Christianity is not true? We return to the unbeliever idea.

CONCLUSION;
So to my atheists friends. If you fear death, yet believe that God does not exist, then you are being irrational. Then again, maybe you uncertain whether death is the end of your existence. ARE YOU READY TO DIE?

If the audience you are speaking to is uncertain, then they are no atheists at all.

malvisguy212:
bring the other verse.
https://www.nairaland.com/2239640/why-fear-death

The other verses are in the OP. You know what you'll do? You'll translate the greek word akouo which literarily means "to hear" to "understand". You'll change it to understand in the two verses and let's see if it won't lead us to the same thing - contradiction.

I can even help you to make the task less boring. Here we go:

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing understood a voice, but seeing no man. ACT 9:7

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard understood not the voice of him that spake to me. ACT 22:9

You say?