₦airaland Forum

ignant:
Positive comparison of feral animals with obnoxious humans is a little bit mischievous, sir.

I assure you that I'm up to no mischief o.

ignant:
I think your tack will be inefficient. Tribalism, especially on the internet, suffers herd mentality...

But exactly. You don't attack a buffalo while its within its herd. Even lions don't do that.

Ziggylady:
Fact!.

I gave you metrics on which I based my "facts". Flawed or not, they are there to be critiqued. Where is your evidence, and what metric is it based on?

ignant:
If you are aware that ethnicity themed threads beget possible tribalistic comments, then it will be deceptive of you, and probably illogical (I mean no disrespect), to muse that such fervour will not generate hate and anger on mainstream threads.

My tack is to divide-and-conquer. Never engage bigots in groups. Engage each separately and attempt to reason with them. Otherwise, encourage others to, like you, speak out more forcefully.

ignant:
Maybe you should visit the thread then.

75likes, 166likes, 356likes...these were the likes on comments that made direct allusion to igbos on the first page alone. There was no igbo-themed troll on the first page I checked.

If you are aware that ethnicity themed threads beget possible tribalistic comments, then it will be deceptive of you, and probably illogical (I mean no disrespect) , to muse that such fervour will not generate hate and anger on mainstream threads.

Oh, no offense taken.
It takes a little more energy to fight bigots on their turf, and since I know I am likely to lose it on those threads, I stay away.

In any case, I have modified this thread. A pissing contest will be a waste of time. My original data, collected over months is still valid, if subjective, but the revelation of the Onitsha thread takes some wind from my sails because a good argument can be made that the posts on the OAU thread are retaliatory. We could count likes till we are blue in the face, but the truth is that either position becomes harder to defend.

I am now calling out bigots from both tribes.

Ziggylady:
Cc proffemi what do you say on the thread this poster just showed you...There are thousands like that on Nairaland....Spread your data nets properly if you are a sincere person.

You don't need my assurances of my sincerity. My post history is in the public domain.

ignant:
You are a scholar (yes, I read a bit of your post history), so when I made a statement on the metric of using likes, I also considered the possibility of multiple monikers exploiting it.

A very good example of such threads I will present is one that has spanned over 300 pages, solely created for Yoruba excellence. https://www.nairaland.com/3918290/yorubas-most-industriousrichest-educated-tribe

If you visit that thread, you will notice the OP together with others, derailed his thread on the very first page degrading Biafra, calling it "biafraüd", calling Igbo man "potor man", calling their stores "2 X 2" , flat heads, erosion ravaged etc. All these on a thread for Yoruba excellence where no person with Igbo ideals had posted.

Was that a case of unprovoked self conflict? Retaliation?

There are many threads like I will exhuma when I'm less busy.

Thank you. Recall that I wrote about ethnicity-themed threads (I mentioned tribe-bashing). When an individual creates a thread on Yoruba excellence, you should have a goo idea what his worldview would be. I have no doubt that there will be similar Igbo threads. I don't visit such threads, and although I recall seeing the title of the particular thread in question , I doubt if I ever entered it. I expect such a thread to be a den of bigots.

But please, humour me, how many likes did tribalistic posts on this 300-page long thread get? I promise you that till tjia very instant, I have not visited that thread, so I await your response with more than a little curiosity.

ignant:
proffemi, you provide convincing arguments but are you aware that using "likes" as a form of data collection, is a little too simplistic?

4. Could the proliferation of "likes" on a themed thread be as a result of those at the receiving end staying away? For example, if there is a thread about, say rituals in the south West, or drug dealing in the south east, won't the group affected likely stay away and the likes would be to the benefit of the others? .

This is particularly deserving of a response, because it is a sound argument that I have considered too. But then, how do you explain the disparity in the number of likes accorded such posts, even allowing for the fact that members of the other tribe stay away?

Tushkito:
https://www.nairaland.com/4640986/flood-destroys-roads-onitsha-more

I see that OAU thread as revenge.

Yes, if I had visited that thread, I would have spoken out against overtly tribalistic posts.
But my point is not that no Yorubas are guilty of tribalism. My concern is more about the perceived imbalance in how quickly either side reach for it.

I counted the likes on those despicable comments in the thread you pointed me to, and they average around 20 tops.

To those challenging the use of likes as a metric, propose a better one please.

ignant:
proffemi, you provide convincing arguments but are you aware that using "likes" as a form of data collection, is a little too simplistic?

The history of tribalism on this website and the dialectics show that it is fuelled by retaliation . Trying to simplify it as being overly promoted by a certain group as you have here, opens you to scrutiny;

1. Could it be that the Igbos and/or their sympathisers are the majority on these threads, thus the more "likes"?

2. Could it be that the "likes" could be majorly linked to obnoxious trolls who either seek delight in this social problem or profit some way?


4. Could the proliferation of "likes" on a themed thread be as a result of those at the receiving end staying away? For example, if there is a thread about, say rituals in the south West, or drug dealing in the south east, won't the group affected likely stay away and the likes would be to the benefit of the others?

This trend is the dialectics of the seemingly oppressed.

Excellent.
I have waited for long for someone to raise these points. I did wonder about using likes as a metric. You never raised the possibility of people using multiple monikers. I have considered that.

Unfortunately, one can only use available data, nuisance variables or not. If you know a better metric, state it.

Where is your evidence that anything is fueled by retaliation?

3. Are there not threads where tribalism that favours the yorubas gather more "likes"?

Please believe me when I say that there was a time I tried this experiment. I could not find such a thread (outside of threads created expressly for tribe-bashing. I do not even visit those). If you know any such thread, I challenge you to show it to me!

fergie001:
Thank you,
My clearest assurances.....

Thanks bro.

Tushkito:
Why not check that thread about the flooding in onitsha and see how disgustingly hatefull ur ppl are.

Any way, I just added a like about that OAU flood, It's now 100 likes.

#HYPOCRITES

I hope you won't run away if I ask you to provide a link to the thread? Let us analyze the facts.

fergie001:
Femi,
I have made my point...and you know where I stand...

I know where you stand. I have no beef with you. I just hope that in future, you will continue to speak against tribalism from your kinsmen. I assure you that I will do the same with my own kinsmen.

RuthlessLeader:
Oga tribalism is in the very fabric of our culture. Seun might as well be doing his best to curb it but the truth is that telling a nigerian to make a non tribalistic post in politics section is like telling them to comment in Japanese.

What separates us from the animals is the ability to control our impulses and emotions.

Are you saying every single Nairaland poster is guilty of either making or liking tribalistic comments When will Africa stop accepting things because "that is just how it is"?

Do you not think that if you, if I, if others start speaking out more forcefully about tribalism, it will reduce?

fergie001:
Both tribes are as guilty...

By the way, I agree with you that both tribes (hell, all tribes!) are guilty.
When a scant minority of one tribe does it, but a bigger percentage of another tribe seem to do it, don't you agree there needs to be a conversation?

And before you retort, please consider the evidence I presented from YOUR example: 9 likes [12 if we extrapolate] versus 98 likes.

fergie001:
prof,you know I won't do that....
Because I don't have that kind of time......

I am thoroughly sincere,and I stand on what I said...
Both tribes are as guilty...
The topic is what decides......how the momentum swing....

Once I see a topic on front page,I know how it goes,it's that bad...
Avi resurgent2019,I lie?

Happily, the power outage where I am now gives me the time to do the assignment for you.


fergie001, how many times did I call you? You just gave me more data to support my thesis.

As of this moment (with the thread 3 pages long), the worst comment I can find got 9 likes . It came at the middle of the page.
By comparison, the anti-Yoruba post on the OAU thread was after two comments or so, and right now (thread is 4 pages long) it has 98 LIKES .

Very educated people will tell you that my sample size is very small. But while we should all keep challenging our kinsmen to stop tribe-bashing (I have been doing this, and will continue to do so), the data still suggests that more ndi'gbo do it than Yorubas. Once again, happy to welcome data refuting this, but to dismiss the facts because they are inconvenient is not wisdom.

fergie001:
Go down more,I don't need to call their monikers here,
I have had a hard time with them in the past because of this 'ish....

I will leave you to your belief....
I believe we all made salient points,and some sense in our nonsense,that anyone could pick from.....
For me
Data or no data
Grammar or no grammar
Pretence or no pretence
Mod or no mod

What is happening in Nairaland today is pathetic,especially from the so-called "educated tribes".
I will leave it at that.........
Have a nice day,prof

Thank you. I can't find the posts.
But if you are sincere, let us carry out a simple experiment:

Please check those vile posts, and tell us how many likes each of them have?

resurgent2019:
..Even this thread has proven me right. You have not made Head way in your rapprochement effort with the igbos .

My core point is that the igbos should be left alone to do what they please online. Nobody can change their feelings towards other Nigerians—especially Yorubas.

That’s all.

Not at all.
I understand the process by which people take on differing opinions, critique them, and accept relevant aspects. This process is rarely accompanied by a public mea culpa.

I accept that Igbos who read this came in (and maybe even left) with a belief that I am biased. I can however assure you that at least a few who actually read my posts have taken food for thought from this. They are more likely to call out Yoruba bigots in future, but I bet you my last dollar that they are also likelier to call their kinsmen to order in future.

That is good enough for me.

I never intended to solve the Yoruba-Igbo issue. I just intend to give the needle a nudge in the right direction.

fergie001:
Noted...
To come down low,all parties are as guilty as the other...
Take a look at the front page on Nairaland,on a boy who has a rotten leg,read through down and tell me what you see.....
My dear,nairaland's case of bigotry negates data....

This is not thesis,
Data has no place in what is happening to NL today...and it can only get worse...
Let us not get on the verge of "who do pass"?
That is what got us to the mess in our country today....
Bad is bad,no matter how tilted....

I just visited that thread. This is the first overtly tribal post (in response to a particular post):

I thought u guys are Jews from Israel?
When did juju enta ur life again

It has 5 likes.
Compare this with the two examples I presented.

You think data is for only theses? My brother, that is why the "oyinbos" have left us far behind. Data /evidence should inform everything we say or do. The laziness/reluctance to obtain these, while still maintaining a stubborn position, is the black man's bane.

resurgent2019:
I have repented from propagating hate against the igbos—and that is the reason why most of fellow Yoruba brothers now hate me. But I don’t care what they say. With regards to OP, I feel he was wrong to have opened this thread at all. We all know igbos and Yorubas are like cat and mouse online and no matter the rapprochement, peace will continue to be elusive. I however stand by my statement that Igbos have more hate in them, maybe due to the stories told to them by their parents about the civil war. This is a trite point that most Nigerians accept as true. The fact that I make that assertion doesn’t mean I hate igbos, it means it is a conclusion that I have arrived at after being presented with empirical evidence to produce that inference.

We need not argue amongst ourselves over who is right or who is wrong, but accept the peace of the grave yard we have between both tribes and seek to make the best use of it. Arguing further will only deepen the animosity between both tribes. Besides, I have repented from anti Igbo hate because it is a battle I have realized I can’t win.

Peace.

Resurgent, you are doing two things that are pissing me the hell off.
1. You keep blaming me for opening this thread. This is your opinion, and I prefer you refrain from restating it.
2. You keep saying you have been purged of anti-Igbo sentiments, but if I were an unbiased Igbo man, I would find some of your choice of words insulting.

You (or anyone else) are free to accuse me of bias for apparently making this thread one-sided, but you cannot accuse me of being insulting of Igbos. I wish you could go through your posts again and say the same!

ref:
Igbos are not to be taken very seriously. They have huge inferiority complex issues nobody can remedy in Nigeria. You would do well to ignore them because you cannot stop them from hating others. That is who they are.

OP, Igbos will frustrate you with more hate than you ever imagined. They are built to hate, forget about their insults jareeeee.

fergie001:
proffemi,
... Your aspersion of data is annoying and nauseating and is responsible for the way this supposed beautiful thread should have gone. Please,if you can open another thread and be more unbiased,especially with some paragraphs yanked off...
During the biafra/ipob saga,were you on Nairaland?You will not be on Nairaland,and tell me this 'data' thing you are positing....
The trolling here is like saying who is older between the egg and the hen?
Today,once you oppose Buhari,you are ipob and Igbo

....So proffemi,please attempt to be disinterested,it will set some pace for proper issues devoid of the bashing that this thread has taken now....Thank you...

Thank you.

As I have explained earlier, one expects to encounter tribalism on certain threads. Partisan politics. Ritual killings. Drug crimes. I have never bothered preaching against tribalism on such threads.

My beef is with situations where tribal posts emerge on threads that should elicit empathy or sympathy. My intention was never to be politically correct, just as it was never to denigrate any tribe. I merely make an observation from the POV of my observations/data over time.

You cannot rail against data. This is not a wise thing to do. You can question my methodology for collecting that data. But trying to arrive at correct conclusions without proper data is not what smart people do.

oohlife:
I believe tribe,religion,politics,nationality,race etc are all excuse to hatred, man will always hate his fellow man no matter what.

The sentiment espoused up there is a deadly one, and demonstrably incorrect.

oohlife:
op, what form of hatred is worst than calling on Nigeria to send igbo into extinction,the thread was created by one of your kinsmen couldn't save it because it was heartbreaking.

I never saw that. Till now, I have not seen it. If I had, you can be sure I would not have kept quiet.

Sap0:
you are a bloody hypocrite....if you are for peace,you won't completely be for one and thrash the other...Yorubas are as much as guilty as the igbos and you should have address both rather than conveniently sticking your boot in to one...

mind you, I'm Yoruba like you.

I'll respond to you only because you claim to be Yoruba, which may draw less attention to the high horse you'r riding.

First, I have had exchanges with bigots from either tribe multiple times. Over time, I came to notice a worrisome pattern. If you care to, you can find my previous posts on the subject, each time making the same point. You will also find where I challenged Yorubas who stepped out of line.

I created this thread not to "trash" any tribe, but simply to give a wider platform to air an observation I have made multiple times in the past.

What is hypocritical about this, or do you need me to give you a link to an online dictionary?

oohlife:
op you're even worst,you address hatred of another tribe but turn a blind eye towards your own tribe,in your attempt to address the issue of tribalism and hatred you ended up as promoter of it,not that am supporting it but is your tribe free to hate and another not?

Chief, no tribe is free of hate, and if you use your "search" button, you should find situations where I took Yorubas to task for their posts. I opened this thread because of an observation I have made over time about the imbalance in how either side treats tribalism. If you are confident that my observation is incorrect, please say so, but do be kind enough to provide some attempt at an evidence.

There are certain individuals I have refused to respond to. Consider it a sign that my posts are not meant for you, but people in possession of a few more IQ points.

For those incapable of figuring out my rationale for opening the thread, I'll lay it out for you.

When one reads about ritual killings on Nairaland, there unfortunately tend to be Yorubas involved. One cannot blame the tribalists for coming out, knife-in-hand. Likewise, when you read about drug-related crimes, there are also likely to be Igbos involved. Again, one can't stop the "bloodbath" of posts. We can (at least, I can) turn a blind eye to that. I also generally give tribalism a wide berth on posts in partisan politics.

But when you have posts on disasters or human suffering, and tribalism rears up its ugly head, to me, it reveals hatred that has eaten so deeply into souls as to make the posters dangerous to themselves and others. I do not think we should support or even condone tribal posts on such threads.

Our differences are clear, and can be either a source of strength to this country, or our Waterloo. To allow hatred to fester is to court disaster.

And for the avoidance of doubt, I am 100% in support of Biafra, if that is what the majority of Igbos want. The fact that Igbos have not been able to actualize the dream (again: IF THIS IS INDEED WHAT THE MAJORITY OF IGBOS WANT) has less to do with Yorubas, and alot more to do with a need for ndi'gbo to re-write their political playbook.

resurgent2019:
... I apologize on his behalf.

Please don't do that.

I am old enough, and posess enough soundness of mind to recognize where I have erred, and to do the needful. Your attempt at being gentlemanly risks undermining a very important discussion.

As I have said, posterity will judge not only the guilty, but the insouciant. Don't be insouciant to the manace of tribalism because of perceived more urgent Fulani threats.

You opined earlier that I was just being politically correct. I let it slide then because, contrary to the impression given by my creating a Monday morning post, I am indeed busy, and responding selectively to posts.

I am not being PC. I maintain that despite the obvious inter-tribal differences and competition, the narative of wholesale hate is one that should not be allowed to take hold. Some of my best friends growing up were Igbo. Some of the smartest people I personaly know are Igbo. I have Igbo kinsmen by marriage. At this very instant, I am giving multiple opportunities to Igbos at the expense of Yorubas. These are but personaly examples from an ocean of examples I can personally attest to. Why should we then allow the propagation of a narrative of wholesale hate just because some imbeciles on Nairaland got a few MB of data?

Posterity demands that we have this conversation. This may not be the best forum or time, but one can only try. I have a thick enough skin to ignore most of the predictably stupid responses. I look forward to more measured and reasonable posts, and if they are not forthcoming, we all go on with our lives.

But if I ever get challenged at some distant date, I can point to my efforts to defuse the situation.

e7ejinima:
The rivalry between Yoruba and Igbo is not a today's thing. It is now generational -passed from older generation to the newer ones.
...What's between Yoruba and Igbo is competition. Both are very competitive nations and both strive for excellence in what they do. So, the rivalry or competition in this light will make each nation to strive to better themselves even if it's just for 'making mouth' to the other rival. This is positive.

The negative: either tribe will undermine each other at any slightest opportunity. This happens in politics, in work places, even professional associations. This is very negative. This is also what the more backward Fulabi/Hausa feast on.

I will advocate for the Yoruba and Igbo to begin to come closer and forge a more formidable front. For instance, what the Yorubas want of the nation's polity is much closer to what the Igbos want -merit-based system, peace, security and stability; thriving economy; modernity (Both tribes are progressive in ideology, actions and expectations). ...

The op is clearly one-sided. His comment is typical of a side that feels the heat of the bashing. Its just bashing, e-bashing, thats all.

Finally, someone capable of articulating a position.

First, let me disabuse your mind of the notion that I am biased. I am a researcher, and arrive at no conclusion unless I have data to back it up. My conclusion is that notwithstanding the fact that tribalism is rife on Nairaland, more ndi'gbo resort to it unprovoked. It is based on months of (subjective!) observation. I hope you agree that if my observations are correct, then my argument is not one-sided? In which case, my question to you is: have you tried to actually collect data on this problem? If you have data to the contrary, I will most certainly eat crow. And gladly too.

Secondly, I agree with you that there is competition between the tribes. Unfortunately, this competition is rapidly becoming very unhealthy. I cannot see how you can find anything funny about that.

In creating this thread, I was not unmindful of the fact that the usual dregs would flood here with all manners of vituperation. I consider my decision to still go ahead with it on a Monday morning a debt paid to posterity, which will ultimately judge us all. The guilty, the innocent, and the insouciant.

Cheers.

Amumaigwe:
Oh, you are now sounding like a peace-loving dude because Igbos have proven themselves better than you lots in your game of hate? You should have inquired about the character of an Igbo man before venturing into such a foolhardy ish: we are too hot to handle.

Hmm. This Game of Hate you refer to has not ended yet for you to declare a victor.

Unless you are above 50, I know more about the "character of an Igbo man" more than you, so stop the chest beating already.

Xander85:
Au contraire, you're the one that comes out of this with egg on your face!

Your initial post is nothing more than the subjective rantings of a deranged, hypocritical paranoid-schizo! He was only letting know this fact!

How about you set the ball rolling by getting 'facts and data' on the bigotry of your own ethnic group towards Ndigbo? Or maybe you wanna posit that it's a one-way thing and that your people are innocent victims in all this?

Your language shows who you are. I'll leave it at that.

Point of correction.

We don't hate each other. We're different. Absolutely. Some Igbos hate some yorubas and vice versa. Definitely. But NEVER swallow the narrative of wholesale hatred between Yorubas and Igbos. For every example of hatred, I bet you know dozens of examples of peaceful, harmonious inter-tribal marriage and productive cooperation.

This hints at the very point of this thread. If you repeat something long enough, people start believing it. Yhe more we allow tribalistic posts to become the norm here, the more people accept the doctrine of wholesale hate.