₦airaland Forum

About the issue of new wine, that Jesus's wine was new and therefore not intoxicating. well, this is what i got from the scriptures.

Hosea 4:11 (New King James Version)
The Idolatry of Israel
   11 “ Harlotry, wine, and new wine enslave the heart.
Hosea 4:11 (English Standard Version)
11whoredom, wine, and new wine,
  which(A) take away the understanding.
11 to prostitution;
      old wine and new wine
      take away their understanding. (Today’s new international version)
Hosea 4:11 (King James Version)
11Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.

In the URL new wine and sweet wine was portrayed as non-intoxicating, the above shows that the new wine could also intoxicate.
Micah 6:15 (King James Version)
15Thou shalt sow, but thou shalt not reap; thou shalt tread the olives, but thou shalt not anoint thee with oil; and sweet wine, but shalt not drink wine.
The verse above was talking about the calamity that would befall Judah for her apostasy and that is all their efforts to achive success would be half-accomplised and they would never be satisfied. Part of the curse and punishment is that they would attempt to make wine (success), but would end up with sweet wine (half-success).

In Leviticus 10:9, it was expressly stated that Aaron and his sons were not to take wine when they officiate, the instructions that were being given to Aaron were pertaining to his actions while officiating. if taking alcohol was a sin, 1. it would not have been necessary to specifically state it as part of the instructions, but because it was not a sin, they could easily have thought it would be right to take it while officiating, therefore it was necessary to alert them to this, the same applies to Lemuel the King, he was officiating as a king under God's arrangement, so he needed to avoid alcohol during such important state matters.

As for the Nazirites, the law at Numbers 6: 3
6 And Jehovah spoke further to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and you must say to them, ‘In case a man or a woman takes a special vow to live as a Naz′i·rite to Jehovah, 3 he should keep away from wine and intoxicating liquor. He should not drink the vinegar of wine or the vinegar of intoxicating liquor, nor drink any liquid made from grapes, nor eat grapes either fresh or dried. 4 All the days of his Naziriteship he should not eat anything at all that is made from the wine vine, from the unripe grapes to the skins.

From the above, we can see that there was distinction made between wine/intoxicating liquor and also liquid from grapes, or even grapes themselves, as suggested from the that url, liquid from grapes may not be intoxicating, but a nazirite was not allowed to take it. But on completion of his naziritic vows, he is free from all naziritic restrictions, in verse 20, the bible specifically say he could take wine, if he so wishes.
''18 “‘And the Naz′i·rite must shave the head of his Naziriteship at the entrance of the tent of meeting, and he must take the hair of the head of his Naziriteship and put it upon the fire that is under the communion sacrifice. 19 And the priest must take a boiled shoulder from the ram and one unfermented ring-shaped cake out of the basket, and one unfermented wafer, and put them upon the palms of the Naz′i·rite after he has had the sign of his Naziriteship shaved off. 20 And the priest must wave them to and fro as a wave offering before Jehovah. It is something holy for the priest, along with the breast of the wave offering and the leg of the contribution. And afterward the Naz′i·rite may drink wine.. this must be the wine (alcoholic) that he was first restricted from taking and not just the grape juice, every restrictions is gone including strong drinks.

In Jeremiah 35:12 -16, the rechabites were not because they drank no wine and built no houses as instructed by their forefathers, but God was praising them because they listened to the voice of a man for centuries and stuck to it, whereas the jews could not even keep the word of God for a few years.

Also in acts 2:12-16, where the apostles were speaking in tongue and accused by the people of being drunk, Apostle Peter defended the apostles not by denying that they dont take alcohol or pursue the argument of abstinence which would have been the most obvious line of argument and use the opportunity to denounce alcohol, but he argued that they could not have been drunk because it was too early to out drinking, the whole 120 of them could not have been drunk so early early in the morning. That would have been a very odd way of defending yourself if you actually dont take alcohol. If someone said i beat up my wife, i wont start saying am peaceful in nature and how could i beat up my wife, when i dont actually have a wife. The first argument would have been well, i dont have a wife.

OLAADEGBU:
Thanks for bringing Image123's referenced url to my attention. I have briefly perused it and found out that it has done a brilliant scholarly work when it comes to the kind of wine Christ supernaturally created. I will refer to some excerpts from the site that I very much agree with below:

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/4.html

Wow! it has been a great journey to find the truth about these matters and that is how it is meant to be to search for the truth and acknowledge the truth, not what we think is true, but we dont have to do this by calling each other names or being abusive. please whatever the case lets keep it clean. image123 i hope you would go thru the following.

First, if Alcohol was outrightly bad in all ramification and in whatever quanitity, i dont think the scriptures in so many places be talking about avoiding excesses or staying a long time with wine. It would have be far simpler to say, Dont drink wine or intoxicating liquor and anyone would does would be face these consequences, but in severall places, it just condemns drunkenness and over indulgence in wine.

Also if the taking of alcohol is wrong outrightly, how then would you explain the following scriptures:

Deuteronomy 14:22-26 (King James Version)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26AND THOU SHALT BESTOW THAT MONEY FOR WHATSOEVER THY SOUL LUSTETH AFTER, FOR OXEN, OR FOR SHEEP, OR FOR WINE, OR FOR STRONG DRINK, OR FOR WHATSOEVER THY SOUL DESIRETH: AND THOU SHALT EAT THERE BEFORE THE LORD THY GOD, AND THOU SHALT REJOICE, THOU, AND THINE HOUSEHOLD,

Isaiah 25:6 (King James Version)
6And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. (please find out what a lee is).

Numbers 28:7 (King James Version)
7And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Please i would like to have your honest comments about these.

Hi Everyone,

This has been a very interesting topic and the willingness of you guyz going thru great lenghts to do researches and contribute meaningfully is well appreciated. If all christians could just do this, we would most likely have weeded out some of the untruths being bandied around in religious circles.

@image123

In matthew 35:18,19 Jesus was showcasing how hard it takes to please the people of his generation by comparing himself and John. He said 'John came neither eating nor drinking'. John of course eats and drinks, but the bible says he eats Locusts and Honey, that must mean he eats just that or that he rarely eats other food, if he does eat other food occasionally, then Jesus must have been emphasizing his point by using a hyperbole.

He then said 'the son of man came eating and drinking, but you said a man gluttonous and given to drinking wine'. This means Jesus eats and drinks like every typical God fearing Jew especially on social occasions, but the pharisees exxagerated the whole issue.

'They said he was a friend of tax collectors', most tax collectors were mean and loan sharks and they work for the Roman slavers so they were greatly scorned in israel, these people were not in Jesus circle of friends nor close associates, but just on a few occasions when he searched out tax collectors that were willing to turn around and change (zacchaeus and matthew), they branded him as someone who is a cohort, just to castigate him.

Then they said he was a 'wine bibber/given to drinking wine/drunkard', definitely this implies that Jesus takes alcoholic drink or wine, but as its typical of the first accusation, they greatly exagerated this action in order to castigate him in the eyes of the people. The accusation would not have been considered at all if Jesus has never been observed taken wine especially in public where people can him. We should remember that these pharisees were the most intelligent and highly educated men in Israel, they were the elites and they were older men with wealth of experience and the Bible often say they would meet together and plan on how to trap Jesus. So they dont just throw accusations around, they use the ones that would almost stick, and that is why eventually when they arrested Jesus, despite all his verifiable miracles the whole crowd wanted him killed not just the pharisees.

The strategy of the pharisees has always been to look for something minute and use it against Jesus e.g the issue of his disciples not washing hands, not observing the sabbath because they harvested a handful of grains, the issue of tax, subverting the nation against Rome that he is a King (treason) e.t.c.
All am saying again is Jesus took wine, because it is socially acceptable and not condenm by the scriptures, in fact it was an integral part of their daily life and worship (check my earlier posts.)

Take care guyz

Nezan:
Alcohol is sin, period!

If you are a muslim and the quran condemns alcohol, then it is a sin to you, but if you are a christian, you dont tell us what is sin, THE BIBLE DOES.

Image123:
I'll not enter deep into the discuss now but there's need to say that when people refer to alcohol, it includes the likes of shepe, ogogoro, schinapps, star extra lager 'the clear leader' etc. I believe it'll be at best naive to argue that Jesus will take these in the sense that it's taken if he were living with us. But I'll like to ask what it means to drink responsibly. Is it a sip, 2 bottles or 4crates? How responsible can we drink and how liberal can we be so as not be considered as conservative or legalistic? Also, is there a difference between wine and strong drink? If yes, what drinks can we put as examples? Looking forward to your response(s)

Alcohol is a chemical compound and any drink that contains a significant amount of it is considered to be an alcoholic drink/strong drink/intoxicating liquor. So all the drinks you listed above falls in this category and countless others such as palmwine. In the case of Jesus christ, the drink that was prevalent then was wine from grapes grown in vineyards, which was part of the israelite social lifestyle and worship from time immemorial (check my previous quote).

The Bible does not quantify the amount that is too much, each person knows his limits and what he can take. Take for instance food, we all eat and we have a fairly good idea of what it is to take too much food. There are people we would say does not know how to eat, beacause they eat small amounts, and there are some of our friends that we all know can eat a lot and everyone would generally agree. So its not far fetched too to easily identify those who have taken more than moderation, each person should watch himself beacause we individually have an accounting to make before God. So if you can eat responsibly without people saying you eat too much, so also can you drink responsibly without people celebrating you as a champion drinker.
Also the Bible condemns being a slave to anything, so if you found out that you just have to take alcohol before you can function be it little or much, then it is a SIN.
It is also wrong to keep on strecthing the limits of the alcohol conent you can take, the Bible clearly condemns those 'who stay a long time with wine' and ' those who delight in mixing wine'. The Bible here is not just condemning drunkenness but also talking about attitude towards its usage.

In addition to my earlier post these are some of the ways the Bible portrays wine, not the Sinful picture some people wants to force down our throat.
Wine “makes God and men rejoice”; it “makes the heart of mortal man rejoice”; it puts the heart in “a merry mood.” (Judg. 9:13; Ps. 104:15; Esther 1:10; 2 Sam. 13:28; Eccl. 2:3; 10:19; Zech. 10:7) Hence, Daniel when in mourning drank no wine. (Dan. 10:2, 3) An abundant supply of wine, symbolized by the “vine” in the oft repeated expression ‘sitting under one’s own vine and fig tree,’ denotes prosperity and security under Jehovah’s righteous administration. (1 Ki. 4:25; 2 Ki. 18:31; Isa. 36:16; Mic. 4:4; Zech. 3:10) Wine is also included in the ‘restoration blessings’ promised by Jehovah. (Joel 3:18; Amos 9:13, 14; Zech. 9:17) Such blessings, however, depend on faithfulness to Jehovah and strict obedience to his righteous requirements. Disobedience means the converse: calamity and desolation with little or no wine.—Deut. 28:39; Isa. 24:7-11; Amos 5:11; Mic. 6:15; Zeph. 1:13; Hag. 1:11.

Just for the records, i dont enjoy taking alcohol, except maybe palmwine and a few other wines and i rarely take them, and i have never been drunk before over the last 15 years since i first remember tasting beer. Am not an advocate of wine/beer but the truth of the scritures must stand forever, traditions of men/pastors must not be preached above that of the scriptures.

brotherly:
This is definitely a contentious topic. One has to be careful not to either misinterpret the bible or to give approval to frivolities.

There is nowhere in the bible where alcohol is expressly stated as a sin . We must however understand that the context of sin is “to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is sin” and “all unrighteousness is sin”

For those differentiating wine from alcohol, we have to be truthful here. Wine as depicted in the Bible almost always has some form of alcohol. Noah drank wine from the proceeds of his vineyard and messed up. The cases of John the baptist , any Nazarene and the Rechabites in Jeremiah’s time all clearly depict that wine in bible times had some alcohol. It was always a case of “TAKE NEITHER WINE NOR STRONG DRINK”

However we of the new testament (especially in perilous times like ours ) need to understand the scriptures from the level of Holy spirit’s direction

“as many as are led by the spirit the same are the sons of God”

“ But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”

The Christian race is not one easy walk, it involves godly wisdom, grace and optimum sobriety. I have sensed that while there is no outright condemnation of alcohol , I have always struggled with God’s spirit to take alcohol. Secondly I am most times at my weakest level spiritually and more prone to sin whenever I take alcohol. Hence while I can not say alcohol to me is a sin , it is however a weight that hinders
“Seeing that we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth easily beset us, and ………………let us run with patience the race that is set before us.”

The bible is replete with great errors that were fueled by alcohol--- Lot and his daughters, Noah, Ahab etc.

Looking at it from the angle of love in helping other peoples faith and not standing as a hinderance to peoples salvation ,there are a lot of unbelievers that will find it difficult to get saved if they find a matured Christian drinking alcohol, there are a lot of young Christians that have backslid because they heard that they are free to take alcohol without getting drunk but have tried and lost their Christian faith completely.
The overriding factor for everyone therefore should be what paul said
Rom 14:15 If you are hurting others by the foods you eat, you are not guided by love. Don't let your appetite destroy someone Christ died for.
Rom 14:16 Don't let your right to eat bring shame to Christ.
Rom 14:17 God's kingdom isn't about eating and drinking. It is about pleasing God, about living in peace, and about true happiness. All this comes from the Holy Spirit.


AS MUCH AS IT IS WITHIN YOUR POWER, STAY AWAY FROM ALCOHOL
peace

We as christians are obligated to teach the truth, why this topic has dragged this long is because some christians in their quest to show how pious they are and possibly look with disdain on others (reminds me of the pharisees) have chosen to condemn alcohol and clasify it as sin. And in order to justify their position have decided to twist the truth, distorting the scriptures by coming up with a misnomer that the wine in the scriptures is non-alcoholic wine. All you need to do to see how they feel about this is to mention that you take alcohol and they would want to deliver you immediately and cast the spirit of alcohol from you.

Remember Jesus Christ said YOU DO NOT PUT NEW WINE IN OLD WINESKIN, IF YOU DO THE WINESKIN WOULD BURST. Please guys, its only alcoholic drinks that have fermented that does that, no juice, or 'non-alcoholic wine' does that. That is the truth of the scriptures and distorting it would be dishonoring Jesus and insulting the Almighty God by declaring what God has made clean and calling it unclean (remember peter and the unclean meat)
This action of holier-than-God in itself is a greater sin than the sin of drunkeness or stumbling others because you take alcohol in moderation, it is blasphemy and it an insult to the power of the holy spirit that revealed the truth to those who penned the scriptures.

Wine was a major source of revenue for the israelite household, that why you would always hear of cultivation of vineyard in the israelite household, in fact it was seen as blessing a from God.  Below are some examples of how the Israelites used Wine, it was part of their social fabric
of the Israelites.

The recorded history of wine making is more than forty-three hundred years old, the oldest account telling how Noah planted a vineyard after the Flood and made wine from its grapes. (Gen. 9:20, 21) From earliest times this beverage has been used at mealtime, (Gen. 27:25; Eccl. 9:7) Wine, bread and other foods are often associated together. (1 Sam. 16:20; Song of Sol. 5:1; Isa. 22:13; 55:1) Melchizedek set “bread and wine” before Abraham. (Gen. 14:18-20) Jesus drank wine with his meals when it was available.—Matt. 11:19; Luke 7:34.

Wine was very much a part of special celebration—banquets (Esther 1:7; 5:6; 7:2, 7, 8; Dan. 5:1, 2, 4), wedding feasts (John 2:3, 9, 10; 4:46), and other festivals. (1 Chron. 12:39, 40; Job 1:13, 18) The royal commissaries were stocked with wines (1 Chron. 27:27; 2 Chron. 11:11); King Solomon had his “house of wine” (Song of Sol. 2:4); it was the customary beverage of kings and governors. (Neh. 2:1; 5:15, 18; Dan. 1:5, 8, 16) Travelers often included it in their provisions for the journey.—Josh. 9:4, 13; Judg. 19:19.

Here is a beverage that can be kept for years, even improving in smoothness, mellowness and quality with age. In fact, it is the only beverage that improves after being bottled. For this reason, and because of its widespread usage, wine became a commodity of trade (Neh. 13:15), the “wine of Helbon” (preferred by the kings of Persia) and the “wine of Lebanon” being particularly famous.—Ezek. 27:18; Hos. 14:7.

Solomon used wine as a medium of payment for materials used in building the temple. (2 Chron. 2:8-10, 15) It was considered an excellent gift for one’s superiors (1 Sam. 25:18; 2 Sam. 16:1, 2), and it was included in the tithing contribution given for the support of the priests and Levites. (Deut. 18:3, 4; 2 Chron. 31:4, 5; Neh. 10:37, 39; 13:5, 12) Fittingly, wine was among the choice things offered up to Jehovah in sacrificial worship of him. (Ex. 29:38, 40; Lev. 23:13; Num. 15:5, 7, 10; 28:14; 1 Sam. 1:24; 10:3; Hos. 9:4).

It is true that we dont want to stumble others who are of little faith or who are just growing spiritually, mature christians do not want to unnecessarily stumble others, maybe by visiting beer parlors (am not saying it is wrong) or pressuring people to join in drinking or extolling the beauty of wine to those who would otherwise not take them or being noted as a connoiseur of wine. But we also have a greater duty to help them grow to christian maturity, by letting them know the truth about a whole range of issues as explained by the scriptures.

@mcfran, i have a strong feeling you did not read my post properly before replying. No part of the Bible is drunkeness, excessive taking of alcohol or dependance on alcohol (being slave to alcohol) condoned and my post does not in any way support drunkeness or alcoholism, so the scriptures you mentioned is fully explained in my post, yes drunkards or unrepentant drunkards would not inherit God's kingdom.
Wine like food is a gift from God, the Bible mentioned that Gluttons will not inherit God's kingdom, does that mean we must not eat. NO what it implies is that we should eat with moderation.
Also in Galatians 5:19-21 'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20 idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21 envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom'.

Did you notice 'Drunken bouts' in that verse, that is drinking competition, who can drink the most. These contests encourage indulgence in alcohol and also easily leads to Drunkeness, so drunkenness is the SIN also OVERINDULGENCE.
in that verse, did you also notice 'revelries' i.e wild parties, would you condemn all parties because the Bible condemns 'wild parties', NO.
So the Bible often times let us know that what is lawful could be sin when it is over indulged in.

The Bible says 'whether you are eating or drinking do all things to God's glory'. if you think that 'drinking' is drinking of water or juice, why would it deserve a special mention, why would we be cautioned about taking water.

Pls we cant be more righteous than God, and no need to be sanctimonious to feel pious. If you choose not to drink, thats a personal decision, its not a law all christians must adhere to. It was not in the mosaic law neither was it in the christian principles.

Wine (there is no non-alcoholic wine, thats a misnomer) has always been a staple in israelite social custom, it was seen as blessing from God, that is why prosperity in israel is always linked to having Vineyards, any study of israelite lifestyle would make you know that wine is part of their daily life, they never looked at it with dishonor.

JESUS turned water to WINE, not some juice, if we are not careful some people would come and start translating that into some Juice.

Mind you after passing thru the digestive tract, our food eventually turns into a form of alcohol before being absolve into the system, so eventually we all take alcohol.

His name is simply JEHOVAH, he does not have multiple names. Most of what people are reeling off here are what he has done, his abilities and attributes, the creator, the almighty, the lord of hosts, they are all unique titles but they not names. These are actions he had manifested, but he had a name before even creating anything, before having a host of armies, before providing for anybody.

He had lived for aeons before anybody or anything or performing all these actions and he had a name. This powerful name was revealed to Moses as JEHOVAH which means 'I am What I choose to Be', that is 'i can achieve whatever i choose to achieve, i become whatever is needed to achieve my purpose. he could become a doctor, a creator, a lawgiver, a father, a scientist; whatever is needed to achieve his purpose would surely come to be.

Every other titles can not measure up to this great name.

@ osazu, i think the following scriptures you listed below has more to tell us than you did on wine.
Le 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong  thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Nu 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
Jg 13:4 Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:
Jg 13:14 She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe.
Pr 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pr 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
Pr 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. {of, : Heb. bitter of soul}
Lu 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; {given, : or, ready to quarrel, and offer wrong, as one in wine}
1Ti 3:8 ¶ Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre

@osazu i appreciate your verseness in the scriptures, but you did not tell us the full context of the scriptures you quoted below: i would like to analyze each verse by verse:

Num 6:2-4 Speak to the sons of Israel and you must say to them, ‘In case a man or a woman takes a special vow to live as a Naz′i·rite to Jehovah, 3 he should keep away from wine and intoxicating liquor. He should not drink the vinegar of wine or the vinegar of intoxicating liquor, nor drink any liquid made from grapes, nor eat grapes either fresh or dried. 4 All the days of his Naziriteship he should not eat anything at all that is made from the wine vine, from the unripe grapes to the skins.

The above scriptures which you did not explain clearly shows that alcohol was forbidden because the person is taking up a speacial vow, note he also has to avoid any drink or liquid made from grapes and he cant even eat the grapes either fresh or dried and he should do this all the days of his naziriteship. The nazirite vow is one you take up either for life or for a given period of time and these rules apply. So if wine is forbidden by this scripture for everyone, so the will the eating of grapes and or any liquid from grapes.

Le 10:9 : 9 “Do not drink wine or intoxicating liquor, you and your sons with you, WHEN you come into the tent of meeting, that you may not die. It is a statute to time indefinite for your generations, 10 both in order to make a distinction between the holy thing and the profane and between the unclean thing and the clean.

This also specifically states that the high priest must not touch wine when he is officiating, not that he cant drink while he is at home or with friends. and for those who say that wine is not alcoholic, that is so naive, apart from the dictionary proof that there is no such thing as non-alcoholic wine, those terms only exist here, go and check it out with archaelogists and Scholars of ancient they would tell you, it is intoxicating wine.

Jud 13:4 In time Jehovah’s angel appeared to the woman and said to her: “Look, now, you are barren and have borne no child. And you will certainly become pregnant and give birth to a son. 4 And now watch yourself, please, and do not drink wine or intoxicating liquor, and do not eat anything unclean. 5 For, look! you will be pregnant, and you will certainly give birth to a son, and no razor should come upon his head, because a Naz′i·rite of God is what the child will become on leaving the belly; and he it is who will take the lead in saving Israel out of the hand of the Phi·lis′tines.”

it is clear that this was another case of a special birth, this child (samuel) is already ordained to be a nazirite, he wont take the vow as an adult, but would be born as a nazirite, so his mother was forbidden to take wine nor any intoxicating liquor. No other mother was asked to refrain froom taking wine, even mary the mother of Jesus, because Jesus was not going to be a nazirite. If the woman was not expressly forbidden and told about the nazirite child, then she would have noreason not to take wine in moderation.

Pr 23:31  Who has woe? Who has uneasiness? Who has contentions? Who has concern? Who has wounds for no reason? Who has dullness of eyes? 30 Those staying a long time with the wine, those coming in to search out mixed wine. 31 Do not look at wine when it exhibits a red color, when it gives off its sparkle in the cup, [when] it goes with a slickness. 32 At its end it bites just like a serpent, and it secretes poison just like a viper. 33 Your own eyes will see strange things, and your own heart will speak perverse things. 34 And you will certainly become like one lying down in the heart of the sea, even like one lying down at the top of a mast. 35 “They have struck me, but I did not become sick; they have smitten me, but I did not know it. When shall I wake up? I shall seek it yet some more.”

This clearly is talking about drinking too much wine (those staying a long time with wine), those who take pleasure in mixing wine and who are fascinated with flavors and mixtures and are enthralled by it, they have a danger of over indulgeness and then messing up themselves. the conditions described in those scriptures are definitely those of a drunken person.

Pr 31:3,4
Do not give your vital energy to women, nor your ways to [what leads to] wiping out kings.4 It is not for kings, O Lem′u·el, it is not for kings to drink wine or for high officials [to say:] “Where is intoxicating liquor?” 5 that one may not drink and forget what is decreed and pervert the cause of any of the sons of affliction. 6 Give intoxicating liquor, YOU people, to the one about to perish and wine to those who are bitter of soul. 7 Let one drink and forget one’s poverty, and let one remember one’s own trouble no more.

Does this verse imply that lemuel should not sleep with any woman, because even if you sleep with one woman you would lose part of your energy, no he was talking about womanizing and the dangers, i.e too much women like what destroyed Solomon. In the same vein, she is asking him to watch from taking wine for he would be in danger of drinking so much that he would forget weightier matters and pervert justice, it is only a chronic drunk and alcoholic that would do this. She was warning him not as forbidden drink but as something that should not be over indulged in.
'Give wine to those about to perish'. thats an interesting statement. Its not saying wine leads to destruction, but its saying those who are heartbroken or are already on a destructive behavioral pattern would be aided further when they indulge in wine.and its true, men lose their job, they turn to the bottle to quench their sorrow, but they find out it turns out worse for them.

Luke 1:15 However, the angel said to him: “Have no fear, Zech·a·ri′ah, because your supplication has been favorably heard, and your wife Elizabeth will become mother to a son to you, and you are to call his name John. 14 And you will have joy and great gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth; 15 for he will be great before Jehovah. But he must drink no wine and strong drink at all, and he will be filled with holy spirit right from his mother’s womb; 16 and many of the sons of Israel will he turn back to Jehovah their God.

this was a case of another special birth, John the Baptist. it does not apply to all Israelites.

Eph 5:18 Also, do not be getting drunk with wine, in which there is debauchery, but keep getting filled with spirit.

This is clear enough, do not get drunk, and not 'do not drink'

the same applies to the last two scriptures osazu quoted 1tim 3:3, 8.

Lastly the mosaic law is quite explicit on sins and their punishment, incest, fornication, theft but there is nothing on drinking wine and that is because it was not forbidden but evryone is to exercise caution just like in food and evrything else. Sex is a gift from God, but it has been most abused than alcohol, this does not make it a sin to have sex in tyhe confines of marriage,

Jesus warns us about the pharisees, who teach commands of men as doctrines, they see only themselves as righteous and all others as sinners because they have turn the law into a burden, adding unnecessary restrictions which God did not forbid. Ecclesiates 3:16 says 'Do not become righteous overmuch, nor show yourself excessively wise'

This condenmation of alcohol by modern day pharisees is just over-righteousness. Lets not go beyond the bounds of the scriptures. People now come up with 'God told me', how do you verify that claim. Well if you are very familiar with the Bible just check it against the scriptures andif it contradicts the word of God, then you can throw back in the 'man of God's face'.

Abuzola,

you must be an idiot and a fanatical fool, to think Jehovah does not forbid Fornication. I bet you are acheing to blow up some supermarket, so that you can have 70 ten years old virgins to ur self in the hereafter.

You are so ignorant,

Blandyne

what kind of christianity do you practise (Catholism)?. God forgives repentant sinners, not people who are wishing for a particular period to quickly pass away, so that they can drench themselves in sin all over again. All this sin and cry sin and cry routine does not deceive God.

You have to make conscious and sincere effort to stop pracising sin, and when you make a mistake and You trully REPENT (stop and turn around). God can then choose to forgive you.

hello odada, i appreciate your concern for letting things to be done properly, i tried checking out where else this forum could be, and the likely place is maybe the education forum, but personally i have never been there, the only place i visit on this site is the job forum. thompson is trying to reach out to friends who had graduated and the most likely place they visit is the job forum. so he thot it best to have where he could reach his target audience. And being aware of the importance of networking and the power of friendship and collabo, i think we can overlook the fact that it could have been posted elsewhere.
Have a great time, ALL Greeat IFES. We shall succeed if we do not tire out.
cheers

hello thompson, nice to hear from great IFES, my name is Akonoman Irabor, Civil Engineering 2006, serving presently in Imo state.

Bros benedo, good to hear from an evergreen great ife, yours memories are shared, the sounds from the music department is still sublime, and the pit theatre dramas are still hot. its so nice to be part of this family. but bros whats GMT, what do they do, maybe i would call you.

cheers everyone. phone 08052512580