₦airaland Forum

I believe all ra.pists deserves a stab in the groin and if this device helps me to punish rap.ists, r.apes are commited by apes.

But most rap.es comes with violence, if it becomes common knowledge that ladies wear this to prevent ra.pes, these animals might do a check or threaten the lady to take it off, and then the risk of being killed after the man has been 'bitten' by the condom increases. the risk also increases if the man finds out before the r/ape.

RichyBlacK:
mafioso2,

Those references to the historical fact of Benin being captured, looted and burnt down in eight days were not made to ridicule the Benin Empire. Why? Making fun of such would be supporting the massacre of the Benin people. The eight days reference was made to checkmate snowdrops's attempt at historical distortion.

The British retaliation was disproportionate, no doubt, however the Obas' deliberate use of cold-blooded murder as a form of intimidation was poor judgment on his part. Most likely, he relied on the fetish objects around him, which included human parts sacrificed to "fortify" the city against a potential British invasion. The fact is that no juju exists against a determined force armed with guns. The Oba of Benin learned the hard way, unfortunately, that juju was/is a fraud, and the countless humans sacrificed to protect the city and the Oba died for nothing.



The truth of the matter is that juju only has a psychological reality and has no application whatsoever in the physical reality of our world.

All juju claims are fraudulent!

Thank you.

The issue of the efficacy of Juju is hard to establish. I have heard tales from personal family members (am from esan, Edo state), my father told me of how his former landlady when he was still a bachelor once came to his room (here in Lagos) in a dream and beat him with canes and when he woke he saw marks on him, he went to warn the Lady that he did not from such acts in Edo, and that there is no way she can succeed here in Lagos. In Public Secondary schools here in Lagos, a lot is said about boys fighting with Jazz and enough eye-witness account, i have a friend in the my office here, who said he had once seen a guy conjure a cutlass from thin air during an inter-school football clash. Its hard to just say all these things are stories.

@Richyblack, you said in an earlier post that humans are not supernatural beigns and therefore cannot do supernatural juju, as a professed christian,

what would you say about the magic-conjurers of Egypt who were able to duplicate the first 3 plagues of Moses, of note is the Biblical fact that said, they conjured up frogs also, but they could not duplicate the other plaques because God prevented it,

what about the servant girl that was following Paul and Barnabas, who used to foretell events accurately b4 she was cured of the Demon plaqueing her,
The Bible condemned several spiristitic  practices, e.g Foretune -telling, casting of spells on people, inquiring of the dead (Saul and the witch of endor), the new testament talked about a couple of people who performed supernatural acts with demonic powers e.g Simon. So can a Christian say he doesn't believe in usage of demonic powers to perform supernatural deeds, when the Bible is replete with people who did.

For those who say why are they not always 'true for all values' as we say in mathematics, we could consider that these are spirit beings with their own interest in the matter and they could choose to do what-ever they like as they deem fit, either to answer the conjurer  or not, they are not chemicals that would always lose or gain an elctron 'under standard temperature and pressure'.

If someone slaps me and i turn the other cheek, it does not mean tomorrow if he does again or if someone else does i would not put a well-placed uppercut under his chin,

As for the Benin expedition, there are stories that there were traitors who spoilt the juju or sold out the Benins, more more the British comprise a lot of Africans from neighboring tribes who were pretty Jazzed up themselves, so could it be that Jazz cancell Jazz?,

For me i don't believe most of these stories but i don't think we have been in fear by mere TALES alone for all these Centuries, there is definitely credence to many of them,

For those who think Africa has been held behind by the fear of Juju, yes but that is besides it, South Korea, Japan, India, China, Aztecs has been venerating Idols for centuries and they are still developing, ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt achieved feats that we found daunting and call ancient wonders, but they were all heathens/pagans/human-sacrificing societies.

If Nigeria is to develop the fear of Juju is not a Hindrance, its just a Nuisance in the process.

I have not seen a lot of people talking about it but the Argentines cheated to get the goal. While they deserve the win over Nigeria because they played better, but that goal could have been ruled out for a free-kick in the 18 yard-box against them, Ogbuke Obasi was clearly going to tackle heinze when he saw the ball going to him, but he was held and wrestled by an Argentine player. This should have counted as a foul against them.

For decades the Argentines have been a formidable force in football and a good side, but for me if they can't win fairly they always resort to dirty tricks and malicious tackles. This is what i love the brazilians for, you can win them fairly if you are good, but the Argentines hardly give you a fair game if you are winning them.

Enyeama has been stopping so many one-on-ones that here in Naija we know that is his what he is very good at, he makes mistakes in rushing out for balls especially corners and free kicks, but leave him with a striker alone and he gives a good account of himself, not always but good enough to be brilliant at it. He is far better than Almunia. Iker Casillas has a very good defence to bank on, but he had never had a day like this, so let enyeama brag, he is good enough to do it,


And come to think of it, he was not bragging at all, he only stated what he did and also how God helped him.

I don't fart around people, but when i do i don't feel embarassed and i don't give people some 'kain look' when they fart around me, because i want to believe it was done unintentionally. So if i fart in the presence of my lover, i am not embarassed.

Sorry i don't know the salary, but do i know you?, let me leave some clues, Psychology, Ota, Ife, MTN, K-block, lawruns?

In my Secondary School days in Lagos, i have seen guys fight with Juju and the likes. Some of the most popular ones were 'subu sere'  'ana sare', bante etc. These things do work but not always.

The whole of the African continent can not be afraid of Juju powers if these things don't actually work at all. I know of a room in Sango Ota where the landlady was buried and anytime anyone sleeps in that room, he is beaten during the night.

In the Oba' market in Benin, there was a time thieves ransacked the market, a popular transporter Bob Izua, threatened to curse the thieves with aiyelala within seven days if they don't return the goods and a lot of the stuff were recovered.

With the Nigerian police anything can happen. I have seen a Nigerian Policeman arresting an okada at eko hotel roundabout with only boxers. He wore a black Niegrian Police-crested vest on a boxers short and was arresting someone. Other uniformed policemen were also picking others.

So this picture fit genuine die.

Sorry about this, it could be very annoying and embarrassing. I was allergic to perfumes, dust, petrol fumes etc for a number of years.
I think the best thing to is to try and avoid those things that trigger the reaction for some time and then your body would gradually build its resistance.

You should wash your bed-sheet more frequently and use a small towel or clothe to cover your pillow before you sleep, and wash the clothe often, so as t get rid of pollens and dust mite that triggers the reactions. I used to sleep with a surgical mask, so as not to inhale dust overnight, because when i wake up especially when i was in the university and i wake up like 3 or 4am to read, i would sneeze for the nest 10 minutes and my nose would run for hours. it was so upsetting.

I have not had an attack for almost a year now and i have started using perfumes and sweeping again. So try and avoid the triggers for a length of time or even travel to an area where the air is less polluted, like a rural area for a week or two. Hopefully your body would stop reacting to all these irritants.

All the best

I don't know why a lot of ladies here are 'menstruating' over this issue of kneeling, no man can force you to kneel if you don't want to, any man that wants to make it mandatory most definitely has some issues, but a lot of women who were brought up in such cultures voluntarily do sometimes.

A friend's wife started using 'e' 'plural pronoun' for his fiance while they were dating even though the guy never asked for it. When i asked her she said she just wanted to, so while it is not mandatory or does it definitely is a show of respect, whether it comes truly from the heart or not is a different issue.

Kneeling before a man does not make the wife inferior, if he is going to belittle his wife, he is going to do it whether she kneels or not. Respects begets respect, husbands sometimes also kneel b4 their wives for a number of reasons

Thats arrant nonsense, where did they find the ladies, i can count the number of ladies i have seen smoking either on the streets or in clubs. this is pure rubbish.

queeneve:
I wouldn't be kneeling to my husband,

He is equal to me and not above nor below me,

I only kneel to God the Father, Jesus the son, and Holy Ghost,

Take it easy, kneeling down in the Yoruba Tradition is a show of respect and honor and not worship.
Women kneel before elderly ones both male and female, and men prostrate - with their chest touching the ground- before older people, be it male or female.
So a woman that feels his husband deserves such respect appropriately kneels occasionally or as her heart moves her before her husband. Sometimes its easier for wives because often times their husband are older than they are, so to kneel before him won't be strange, since they've been kneeling before their uncles, aunties, teachers dad and mom etc.

And according to Christian Beliefs, the man is the head of the family, so in a christian marriage the woman is not equal to the man,

There is no project that would be done by the government that won't have an opportunity cost. Some projects are so massive that they would invariably attract much media attention, and this project is one of the them. And as has been repeatedly said, this project is to cater for the development/expansion in the lekki-epe axis i.e LFTZ, Eko atlantic city, numerous estates springing up in that axis etc.

For those who think MMA is okay, that MMA is trash, that place stinks, and there is no plan to do anything about it by the FG, so if Lagos is to build a befitting place for Nigerians/lagosians, thats fine. When MMA was constructed some decades ago, what percentage of Nigerians could afford to fly.

There are numerous projects being done by Lagos state in the mainland which has created Jobs and also improved the lives of people in such areas, of course there is still a lot to be done, but there is no need to slate the airport project.

Baal was the most prominent of the deities worshiped by the Canaanites. (Jg 2:12, 13; compare Jg 6:25-32; 1Ki 16:30-32.) The Canaanite goddesses Ashtoreth (Jg 2:13; 10:6; 1Sa 7:3, 4), Asherah, and Anath are presented in an Egyptian text as both mother-goddesses and as sacred prostitutes who, paradoxically, remain ever-virgin (literally, “the great goddesses who conceive but do not bear”). Their worship apparently was invariably involved with the services of temple prostitutes. These goddesses symbolized the quality not only of sexual lust but also of sadistic violence and warfare. Thus, the goddess Anath is depicted in the Baal Epic from Ugarit as effecting a general slaughter of men and then decorating herself with suspended heads and attaching men’s hands to her girdle while she joyfully wades in their blood. The figurines of the goddess Ashtoreth that have been discovered in Palestine are of a nude woman with rudely exaggerated sex organs. Of their phallic worship, archaeologist W. F. Albright observes that: “At its worst, . . . the erotic aspect of their cult must have sunk to extremely sordid depths of social degradation.”—Archaeology and the Religion of Israel, 1968, pp. 76, 77; see ASHTORETH; BAAL No. 4.

Added to their other degrading practices was that of child sacrifice. According to Merrill F. Unger: “Excavations in Palestine have uncovered piles of ashes and remains of infant skeletons in cemeteries around heathen altars, pointing to the widespread practice of this cruel abomination.” (Archaeology and the Old Testament, 1964, p. 279) Halley’s Bible Handbook (1964, p. 161) says: “Canaanites worshipped, by immoral indulgence, as a religious rite, in the presence of their gods; and then, by murdering their first-born children, as a sacrifice to these same gods. It seems that, in large measure, the land of Canaan had become a sort of Sodom and Gomorrah on a national scale. . . . Did a civilization of such abominable filth and brutality have any right longer to exist? . . . Archaeologists who dig in the ruins of Canaanite cities wonder that God did not destroy them sooner than he did.”—PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 739

So God was really disgusted with them, and had decreed death for them, and he told the Israelites to exterminate them and not mingle with them or else they would be induced to indulge in the same obnoxious practises and God would also have to DESTROY THEM.
God had warned the Israelites that his justice and his judgments would not be partial and that for the Israelites to enter into relations with the Canaanites, intermarry with them, practice interfaith, and adopt their religious customs and degenerate practices would mean their inevitably bringing down upon themselves the same decree of annihilation and would result in their also being ‘vomited out of the land.’—Ex 23:32, 33; 34:12-17; Le 18:26-30; De 7:2-5, 25, 26. Eventually some Isralite Kings were also making child sacrifices, and having temple prostitutes, because they refuse to fully exterminate the Canaanites and learnt such practices from them. God then used the Philistines, Syrians, Assyrians and finally the babylonians to deal with them, they went into captivity for 70 years. Eventually the jewsish Nation was ransacked by the Romans.

So God's dealing with the Israelites was at a different level and since we are not under the same covenant or circumstances.

Bobbyaf:
You're in a dream world. You need to awake out of sleep.

You dont know me Bobbyaf.

I have been a witness for 19 years and i am telling you that most of these things are not the way you guys are presenting.

This last easter holiday, my family went to visit my Uncle and when we got there we met my other uncles and aunts who had also come visiting, it was a great family reunion, and my family is the only ones who are witnesses in the whole of my extended family.

My granny who lives with is 88 years old, she has suffered a stroke and uses a catheter to pass urine, she is not a witness in fact she dislikes witnesses (she believes we don't bury our dead), she presently lives with us because apparently we were the only ones who could create time and the patience to take care of her in the whole of my extended family, every other person takes her for a few weeks and declines to do any further.

And i know a number of witnesses who have been disfellowshipped and the picture is not the way you painted it. My father-in-law who was an elder was disfellowshipped for many years, but all my wife's sisters and her mother still performs their duties to him. The only difference is that he is no longer their spiritual head, he is still the head of the family as far as other things are concern except for spiritual matters, such as prayers and conducting Family Bible studies.

I visit them a lot and myself and my father-in-law still discuss and we often go out to have a couple of drinks together, when he comes to my place i treat him as a honored guest, like a father. But our spiritual ties have been severed. Elders in his Congregation still visit him to help get back his spiritual footing.

His Business associates who are witnesses still do business with him and conduct their businesses in a formal manner, limiting it strictly to business. Others who has no such dealings with him, who only know him thru the congregation, would not associate with him no more, because he is no longer their christian brother, they won't say a greeting to him because the Bible commanded it. Since they don't have other ties to him other than spiritual ties, then it is secered until he becomes amenable to christian laws.

So if you really want to know about these things ask mature JWs in your neighborhood and stop telling people who are awake to wake up.

And realizing that this link has been on for 4 years makes me less inclined to comment.

Afam:
Thanks for your response. I have a few questions and I will deduce answers and use them as premises to arrive at conclusions.

1. Are you a christian?

If yes, what is your holy book?

If the bible then we agree it contains both the old and the new testaments.

If the statement above is correct then we have verses that sanction the killing of others.

2. As a christian do you have a bible that is made up of just the new testament as a complete bible?

If yes, can I have the name?

During the Boko Haram issue majority of the soldiers who killed the members of that sect were muslims.

a. Did the quran tell muslims to kill other muslims?
b. Are members of the sect not muslims?

We can go on and on but the fact remains that we are twisting issues just to absolve any christian of any link to christianity whenever such a christian commits a terrible act while looking for all possible ways to tie individual acts by muslims to islam and this is very unfortunate.

A few pointers

IBB married a Igbo lady from Delta state. There are muslims who have christians are best friends and vice versa and yet people have their heads on their shoulders.

Let us stop this mindset and address issues as they come. There are Yoruba families with almost equal number of muslims and christians and the muslims have not killed their brothers and sisters as some of us would rather have us believe is the express instruction as stated in the quran.

I am obviously a christian. The Bible in its entirety is my Holy Book. I have seen the arguments that Frosbel has put forward to the issues of killing in the old Testament. But a lot of you guys want to disregard it or see it as a way of avoiding the issues.

Let me state clearly, that before the coming of terrorism in Religion, The Bible clearly stated that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law was constitution designed by God strictly for the Jews. The law in its entirety was to be obeyed to the letter, but the coming of Jesus created a new 'Israel of God that is no longer under the law', rather under a new covenant.
TRUE CHRISTIANS KNOW THAT THE MOSAIC LAW HAS BEEN SCRAPPED, WE NOW UNDER THE LAW OF THE CHRIST. below are some verses for your perusal:

(Galatians 3:10-13) . . .For all those who depend upon works of law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is every one that does not continue in all the things written in the scroll of the Law in order to do them.” 11 Moreover, that by law no one is declared righteous with God is evident, because “the righteous one will live by reason of faith.” 12 Now the Law does not adhere to faith, but “he that does them shall live by means of them.” 13 Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hanged upon a,

(Galatians 3:23-25) . . .However, before the faith arrived, we were being guarded under law, being delivered up together into custody, looking to the faith that was destined to be revealed. 24 Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor (i.e the mosaic law).

So when we say any christian using the old testament to justify terrorism is not a christian, it is not for the purpose of creating excuses, these verses have been written b4 mohammed or b4 these acts of terrorism. IT BECAUSE THE SCRIPTURES ITSELF SAID YOU CANNNOT JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS WITH THE MOSAIC LAW.

Just to buttress this, Jesus told some men that Moses allowed them to divorce their wives on so many grounds because of their hardheartedness, BUT HE EXPRESSLY SAID THAT HENCEFORTH ANYONE DIVORCING HIS WIFE EXCEPT ON THE GROUNDS OF FORNICATION/ADULTERY, AND MARRIES OR SLEEPS WITH ANOTHER HAS COMMITTED A SIN. That is a clear departure from the law of MOSES and this is the law true christians operate on.

On the Issue of God's dealings with the Israelites and his allowing them to wage war or destroy the canaanites, then we would be addressing the issue of God's sovereignty, his right to rule and to determine who merits destruction and who merits life. The issue involved, however, is clearly that of whether God’s sovereignty over the earth and its inhabitants is acknowledged or not. Due to the depraved and grossly immoral way of life of the canaanites God sentenced them to death and used the israelites to execute the judgement. He had deeded over the right of tenure of the land of Canaan to the ‘seed of Abraham,’ doing so by an oath-bound covenant, check Gen 15:17-21.

But more than a mere eviction or dispossessing of the existing tenants of that land was purposed by God. His right to act as “Judge of all the earth” (Ge 18:25) and to decree the sentence of capital punishment upon those found meriting it, as well as his right to implement and enforce the execution of such decree, was also involved.

By the time God was making the covenant with Abraham, the canaanites had already been noted for their inhumane lifestyle (sodom and gomorrah was destroyed immediately because for them God's patiencehas run out, likewise in the days of Noah), but he mercifully left the canaanites for 400 years, WHY?

(Genesis 15:13-16) . . .And he began to say to A′bram: “You may know for sure that your seed will become an alien resident in a land not theirs, and they will have to serve them, and these will certainly afflict them for four hundred years. 14 But the nation that they will serve I am judging, and after that they will go out with many goods. 15 As for you, you will go to your forefathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they will return here, because the error of the Am′or·ites has not yet come to completion.”

So by the time the Israelites where leaving Egypt, the error of the canaanites had reached a limit, and He was going to use the Israelites to execute his Judgement. What does history tells us about the canaanites, did they actually merit destruction?

May kelly:
Suffer not a witch to live, are you by any chance on satan side?

Whats that suppose to mean, you asked a question and i provided a Bible verse. All you need to do is to comment on the verse and stop looking for someone to exorcise.

(Jude 9) . . .But when Mi′cha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”

Afam:
I really find it difficult to understand the justification for the positions taken by some people here.

The notion that islam supports the killing of innocent people as terrorists do is insane. Even within the christiandom we have different interpretations of simple verses by different churches and as such any fundamentalist interpreting a holy book be it bible or quran and using same to justify murder of innocent people should be condemned whether the person is a christian or muslim.

The argument put forward by frosbel that as long as one cannot point out where Jesus asked anyone to kill innocent people in the bible then any act of terrorism carried out by a christian cannot be equated to an act of terrorism carried out by a fundamentalist muslim.

We must be objective if we want to successfully defend a position.

Blanket condemnation or commendation does not make sense as issues should be discussed based on the merits and demerits surrounding them at any particular point in time.

The Calabar guy stated that Jesus sent him. Now, there is no way to know if Jesus really sent him so he could be lying or telling the truth just as we don't know for sure whether most of our pastors that claim that Jesus or God told them one thing or the other are telling the truth.

However, the crux of the matter here is that quite a number of christians are quick to dismiss the actions of the Calabar guy because he is not a muslim and that is unfortunate as we cannot apply the same rule differently depending on the person involved unless we are cool with plain hypocrisy and double standards.

Am a Christian and when i saw the news, everyone of us said he is definitely Mad, and for me anyone who is ready to kill himself and a host of other innocent people in the name of of whatever religion is mad.

I think the crux of the matter here is that Frosbel have quoted a number of verses which can be said to promote or justify the killing of non-believers from the quran, but that there is nowhere in the Bible where Jesus (Christians:christ-like, Christ followers) ever advocated even the killing of enemies or non-believers. He famously said we should turn the other cheek and also pray for our enemies/persecutors. He told peter he who wields the sword will perish by the sword, and that he could call on a legion angel to fight for him, but he didn't. He even forgave those that killed him.

That is the Christian way, laid down by Jesus Christ, and evidences abound that early Christians even refused to take part in any war, either to defend themselves, the Jewish nation or the Roman Empire. In fact, it was one of the reasons why the Roman empire persecuted them.

So if any Christian or even the pope refuse to follow this noble example of Jesus, then he is not Christ-like, and has disowned the faith.

If the Quran/Mohammed forbids the killing of non-believers, then let us know with verses, then we would know that those fanatics got it wrong, then you should probably also explain those verses frosbel quoted, that apparently shows that the killing of non-believers is justified.

Ndipe:
JW have repeatedly denied the Divinity of Jesus Christ and His physical Resurrection. I almost joined the group, but I am glad that I didnt. Where is it in the Holy Bible that Jesus Christ came in 1914 as upheld by JW? Even when the Holy Bible has clearly stated that all eyes shall see Him on His second coming.

what do you mean by they denied the divinity of Jesus Christ and his physical Resurrection? Can you tell us what they have said about it.
, About the second coming of Jesus,

(Revelation 1:7) 7 Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen.

This verse is in revelation which was given in signs and symbols, if we are to take it literally, those who pierced Jesus are already dead, how would they see him,

Also how can we explain the following verse,
John 14:19 : “A little longer and the world will behold me no more.”

@bobbyaf

I read your comment about Witnesses seeing their family members and not saying hello to them, That is absolutley not true.don't we say hello to people we don't even have filial relationship with. Whether your family member is of your religious disposition or not, you have a responsibility towards them as family members. The Bible says he who does not provide for his family member has disowned the faith, so even if your son refuses to follow your religious footsteps, you still have a responsibility to provide for him, but if the child is behaving totally irresponsibly, fighting, stealing and maybe a host of other crimes. Then you can choose to use any disciplinary action against him, which might include restricting funds from him, banning him from the house, or even not greeting him when you meet on the way.

So its not always the way you hear it.

Bobbyaf:
There can be no doubt that the history of the JWs has come back to haunt them. Their failed prophecies, as well as their revised doctrines speak embarrassingly. No amount of field service can amend that. No amount of boasting about who is really witnessing can fix that. What we need is honesty rather than denial.

In spite of all that I admire them just the same. They are decent people who may be sincere. My only concern are their doctrines.

Jehovah's Witnesses did not write the Bible, but they have tried to understand it in depth, they spent time, money etc in doing this and they tried to adhere to what they have learnt. They never said whatever they say is inspired by God, but they believe in the inspired scriptures

Jehovah's witnesses have never prophesied at anytime, but they have tried to find the timing of some inspired prophesies, on some instances, they have been wrong, and there was never a denial, there are several of their publications dating back decades which have mentioned such things.

Even in the Bible some things were not fully understood by the prophets or the apostles until much later, Daniel wrote prophesies which he did not understand but the Angel told him he should still write, that later it would be understood by others at God's right time, the apostles did not understand what Jesus meant when he said, John would not die until the return of the son of man.

If you are talking about revised doctrines, when you are studying anything, you don't come to a full grasp of your study all at a time, things become clearer and clearer, as you know and learn more. That was the case in ancient Israel, God once allowed the Israelites to divorce their wives on almos t any ground, but Jesus came and put a stop to that, and said it is adultery if you divorce on anything other than infidelity. Also among the early Christians, Many issues causing dissensions among the early christians were referred to the older men in Jerusalem, who shed more lights on matters and sent letters to the congregations and these become part of the Christian doctrine we know today.

There is no religious organization, ancient or recent, who had all its tenets and beliefs, fixed and unchanged from inception.

The crusades was a bloody period in Christendom history, but a lot of what triggered these things were more political than religious. While the crusades were sponsored by the pope and laymen were recruited enmass, but they all those actions were not  based on any christian principle or value, some might argue that it was from wars of the Israelites. But that was part of an earlier era, and the dealings or terms or agreement were different. God was using a nation, the Jewish nation then, but now it was clearly stated that, that covenant has been nullified and replaced with a new one.

The popes were suppose to be under the new laws as stated clearly by Jesus.
Jesus came and gave us a new law, a new way of thinking, a paradigm shift from what used to be norm in the time of the Israelites or the jewish nation.  The are the noble christian principles taught by Jesus

YOU heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.’ 22 However, I say to YOU that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice;

(Matthew 5:38-46) 38 “YOU heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 However, I say to YOU: Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 40 And if a person wants to go to court with you and get possession of your inner garment, let your outer garment also go to him; 41 and if someone under authority impresses you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one that wants to borrow from you [without interest]. 43 “YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; 45 that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. 46 . . .

(Matthew 7:12) 12 “All things, therefore, that YOU want men to do to YOU, YOU also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.

(Matthew 10:16-23) 16 “Look! I am sending YOU forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. 17 Be on YOUR guard against men; for they will deliver YOU up to local courts, and they will scourge YOU in their synagogues. 18 Why, YOU will be haled before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations. 19 However, when they deliver YOU up, do not become anxious about how or what YOU are to speak; for what YOU are to speak will be given YOU in that hour; 20 for the ones speaking are not just YOU, but it is the spirit of YOUR Father that speaks by YOU. 21 Further, brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death. 22 And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 23 When they persecute YOU in one city, flee to another; . . .


These are the teachings of Jesus Christ, and it is well documented in History, that earlier christians never took up arms against their persecutors, neither did they join in the nationalistic wars of Jews.

It was after the corruption of christianity with human philosophies and the wrong teachings of the so called 'church fathers' and the quest for power by the Bishop of Rome (who later became known as the pope) aided by emperor Constantine, that christianity became marred by atrocities, but never were their actions based on Christian teachings.

There has to be a couple of assumptions for this to be taken seriously. Assumptions that are far-fetched and punches some holes in these summarized arguments.
The town of Nazareth might not have existed in the time of the old testament or it could be very obscure and/or insignificant enough to be mentioned.

Josephus
Many more towns/villages would have sprung up after the list at Joshua 19:10-16 has been compiled.
Was the list by Josephus exhaustive, are we sure he mentioned all the existing cities/towns and villages of Galilee.

Josephus mentioned 45 cities, the Talmud mentioned 63 towns. Could there be others unmentioned by anyone, maybe there were a thousand villages.


For a long time, many critics believed Pontius Pilate never existed because there was no secular mention of him, until some 150yrs or so ago when they found some.

Moreso another renowned archaelogist Dr. Ken Dark, who has worked in Nazareth for many years said in his review of this book in the 2008 issue of the Bulletin of the Anglo-Israel Archaeological Society. I quote his final paragraph - "To conclude: despite initial appearances, this is not a well-informed study and ignores much evidence and important published work of direct relevance. The basic premise is faulty, and Salm's reasoning is often weak and shaped by his preconceptions. Overall, his central argument is archaeologically unsupportable."

"Despite Nazareth's obscurity (which had led some critics to suggest that it was a relatively recent foundation), archeology indicates that the village has been occupied since the 7th century B.C., although it may have experienced a 'refounding' in the 2d century b.c. " ([MJ]A Marginal Jew--Rethinking the Historical Jesus, (vol 1), p.300-301), cites Meyers and Strange, Archeology, the Rabbis, and Early Christianity, Abingdon:1981. pp.56-57

Also an Archaeologist Yardenna Alexandre, has discovered the ruins of house that is dated to be about 2000yrs ago to the time of Jesus.


If i was going to create a fictitious person, i would do so but place him in an existing town, putting him in a non-existing place, would be two points of failure. And if we look at the way the gospel writers tried tremendously to place events with other historical occurences/political figures, it would be very odd for them to make such a cheap mistake.

Tpia,

Thanks so much for the link, that was true enlightenment. While there was a lot of influence from the Islamic world on timbuktu as highlighted below in the excerpt below:

'In the eleventh century merchants from Djenne set up the various markets and built permanent dwellings in the town, establishing the site as a meeting place for people traveling by camel. They also introduced the Islam and reading, through the Qur'an.' The "University of Sankore" was a madrassah, very different in organization from the universities of medieval Europe. It was composed of several entirely independent schools or colleges, each run by a single master or imam. Students associated themselves with a single teacher, and courses took place in the open courtyards of mosque complexes or private residences. The primary focus of these schools was the teaching of the Qur'an, although broader instruction in fields such as logic, astronomy, and history also took place.

But i especially treasure this:

'The most outstanding treasure at Timbuktu are the 100,000 manuscripts kept by the great families from the town.[27]. These manuscripts, some of them dated from pre-Islamic times and 12th century, have been preserved as family secrets in the town and in other villages nearby. The majority were written in Arabic or Fulani, by wise men coming from the Mali Empire. Their contents are didactic, especially in the subjects of astronomy, music, and botany. More recent manuscripts deal with law, sciences and history (with unique records such as the Tarikh al-Fetash by Mahmoud Kati from the 16th century or the Tarikh al-Sudan by Abderrahman al-Sadi on Sudanic history in the 17th century), religion, trade, etc.'


I have been a quest of finding out if subsaharan Africa had a written language/alphabet/scripts before the coming of Islamic or Christian scholars. The fact that some were written in Fulani in the pre-islamic era is worthy of note.

Please if you have some links to about Subsaharan ancient scripts, i.e aside from akum/cush/nubian scripts, i would very much be pleased.

ababda:
The answer to your question rabzy is a resounding, Yes! Timbuktu is not necessarily a civilization but it was part of the kingdom of Mali and Songhai Empire. there is tons of information on the internet, why don't you research it yourself. here is a couple of links, enjoy

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/sghi/hd_sghi.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNw_gPwsnIw&feature=related

i have been reading about these empires since i was 12. The great mansa musa whose trip to mecca with so much gold, that the price of Gold fell for over a decade after he had left is still a hero to me. This civilization was great and if not the greatest of all the Subsaharan Empires, but as you can see from the timbuktu manuscript which has arabic alphabets and also from the links provided, these Kings were Muslims. the knowledge of science, physics, medicine mostly came from the muslim scholars from the arabian peninsular and the north of Africa.

This to me does not take anything away from the greatness of this Empire, everybody copies from everybody, the european renaissance scholars from Arabic books, the arabs from the greeks/romans, the romans from greeks, greeks from egyptians, egyptians from kush/nubia/ethiopia etc.

But we cannot deny the fact that the timbuktu civilization has its source of enlightenment mainly from arabic scholars.

ababda:
Yes Rabzy it's really European wishful thinking. They would love to consider themselves the savour of barbarous African cultures, but the reality is not true. Besides the culture in the Sahara Sahel region, sophisticated African Civilization abound, such as the civilization of Kush which is southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, The Kingdom of Axum which is Ethiopia, and Eritrea, The[b] Swahili[/b] Kingdom in the east coast of Africa which traded with the Chinese during The 14th century. The Christian Kingdom of Abyssinia which rule the horn of Africa and parts of the Arabian Peninsular, the Christian Nubian Kingdom of Faras, Alwa, and Makuria which ruled Northern Sudan and Upper Egypt Collectively. also the kingdom of Kanem Bornu which ruled what is now north eastern Nigeria, part of Niger, Chad, and parts of Libya, Benin in west Africa, and the Great Zimbabwe in Southern Africa and the Hausa states in Nigeria and Niger collectively to name a few. You sound like a very colonize person Rabzy, so i suggest you decolonize your mind.

I know of all these Kingdoms my friend, i have read a lot about them, i never said we did not have our own type of civilization b4 the coming of white people, am from Edo state and i also know the history of my people with the portuguese and subsequently the English, i know about the civilization we had and what historians said about it. So am not colonized, i only commented on the timbuktu University and scholars, what i asked is whether it was originally subsaharan, i.e did it spring from here or it was brought by travelling scholars from the arab world?

You brought the european context into it, i never said europeans or arabs said questioned the originality of it, i am asking as an african born, bred and living here, that, is this timbuktu civilization originally sub-saharan?

Lets not allow the fear of being re-colonize or perceived to be neo-colonized prevent us from learning searching and probing

ababda:
Some people wud say this is just a borrowed islamic culture, that it is not of an african or sub-saharan african origin

Rabzy: As you already know, that is europeans wishful thinking. Statements like this shows their jealousy of african cultures.

while it might be a european thinking but is it really a wishful thinking?

adconline:
Does the Bible say the Earth is flat?  Bible is not a scienctific book, but a  compilation of historic events premised on christian doctrines.

Of course there was "evidence" that the world is flat. People looked and saw an 'edge'.
Could you tell me why New Year's Eve (December 31) in New York is January 1, in Nigeria and January 2 in New Zealand?
Could also explain according to Genesis. God said let there be light and there was light' why this assertion doesnt apply to the whole world. Night time in some countries is daytime in some countries.

The Bible is not a scientific book but on a number of occasions, it has stated facts which science caught up with centuries later, about the question of the shape of the earth, the bible in Isaiah 40:22 states

Isaiah 40:22 (King James Version)

22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

This was written centuries b4 greek philosophers theorized it, and Millenniums b4 Yuri Gangarin actually saw the circle of the earth from his space craft. The Bible writer Isaiah avoided the common myths about the earth. Instead, he penned a statement that was not threatened by the advances of scientific discovery.

In ancient times, humans were perplexed by other questions about the cosmos: What is the earth resting on? What holds up the sun, the moon, and the stars?
Among the most influential views were those of Aristotle. Although he theorized that the earth is a sphere, he denied that it could ever hang in empty space. In his treatise On the Heavens, when refuting the notion that the earth rests on water, he said: “It is not the nature of water, any more than of earth, to stay in mid-air: it must have something to rest upon.” So, what does the earth “rest upon”? Aristotle taught that the sun, the moon, and the stars were attached to the surface of solid, transparent spheres. Sphere lay nestled within sphere, with the earth—immobile—at the center. As the spheres revolved within one another, the objects on them—the sun, the moon, and the planets—moved across the sky.

The views of the revered Aristotle were accepted as fact for some 2,000 years.

With the invention of the telescope, astronomers began to question Aristotle’s theory. Still, the answer eluded them until Sir Isaac Newton explained that the planets are suspended in empty space, held in their orbits by an invisible force—gravity. It seemed incredible, and some of Newton’s colleagues found it hard to believe that space could be a void, largely empty of substance

What does the Bible have to say on this question? Nearly 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated with extraordinary clarity that the earth is hanging “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7)

Job 26:7 (Young's Literal Translation)

7Stretching out the north over desolation, Hanging the earth upon nothing,

Job 26:7 (New International Version)

7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
      he suspends the earth over nothing.

Most of the contradictions people perceived between science and religion/Bible is because we don't fully understand both. Both have been misinterpreted by their adherents and sometimes they seem not to have patience for each other.

Some people wud say this is just a borrowed islamic culture, that it is not of an african or sub-saharan african origin.

Abu Zola:
Hey, The bible were collected and put together, some were history. This was the part that was available before paul, a plagarized history

can u show examples of these parts, with proofs of the right version, not just imaginations

Abu Zola:
The orginal bible was destroyed, the original bible was dictated by jesus and not paul

Abu Zola:
Hey, save your nonsense and listen.
The bible contain words of jesus, reported story and narration. In Genesis it was a reported one while from mathew 27 it was jesus talking.
You guys are so dumb and lost. The bible was written by many men and because it is corrupt thats why we have thousands contradiction in there

Abu Zola:
Are u sane, yes the bible is corrupt, written by one old fool called paul. The fact that i quote it when arguing with u does not make it uncorrupt, do it for arguement sake.

Hey Abuzola, what exactly are you saying, Jesus dictate some, many men wrote it, it was written by 'foolish' old paul. What of the parts that were written b4 paul? Did you read selenicious post, that should help you a lot, if you are willing to know the truth.