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https://www.jafariyanews.com/2k8_news/jan/14tatbeer_khamenei.jpg

[size=14pt]‘Tatbeer’ (self-flaggellation) is not azadari (Ashura) but wasting it, says Ayatullah Khamenei [/size]

By: Sheikh M Khurasani

‘Tatbeer’ is not azadari (Ashura) but wasting it, says Ayatullah Khamenei
By: Sheikh M Khurasani

TEHRAN, Iran: Supreme leader of Iran Ayatullah Ali Al-Khamenei has said Tatbeer, or Qama-zeni (making a cut on head to gush out blood to signify grief on the martyrdom of Hazret Imam Hosein, peace be on him) is not permissible.

Speaking to a gathering of religious scholars, speakers of Hoseini pulpit and people of the holy city of Qom, the Ayatullah said: “iin mokhalefat ba azadari neest, mokhalefat ba zaya kerdan azadari ast…” [This opposition is not of azadari but of wasting azadari (Hoseini mourning)].

source:

http://www.jafariyanews.com/2k8_news/jan/14tatbeer_khamenei.htm

LagosShia: Sister "uplawal",

you asked yesterday a question about commemorating the event of Karbala on the 10th of the holy month of Muharram also known as the day of ashura and its rituals (beating oneself,crying and cutting oneself).

first you need to know that crying should be a natural reaction to something sad you sense.i personally on several occassions have being moved to tears.it doesnt necessarily have to be on ashura.sometimes when a reciter of the Holy Quran has a nice voice and you ponder upon the meanings,you are moved to tears.also when commemorating the matrydom of Imam Hussain on ashura if the reciter has a good voice and uses good expressions to convey the suffereings and pain of Imam Hussain and the Ahlul-Bayt in Karbala,you as a person with humane feelings will be moved to tears.even if it were not Imam Hussain,if anyone human undergo what the Imam suffered you will feel great sorrow.how much more when the person that went that suffering and sacrifice was your Imam and the Imam of humanity and the grandson of the greatest of mankind,the Prophet Muhammad ?

as for hitting the chest,that is a symbolic act that has a meaning relevant to what happened at Karbala.its has to do more with a symbolic kind of rememberance like the way some people do a "V-sign" on some occassions.

cutting oneself is a philosophical issue.even among the shia,not everyone cuts himself and cause blood to flow.those who do it say that no matter how much one tries to feel sorry for Imam Hussain,nothing is too much.therefore the cutting of oneself is meant to symbolize a willing soul ready to sacrifice and die for the Imam in loyalty and love to him and the Prophet Muhammad and the Ahlul-Bayt.they say that because of those who betrayed Imam Hussain and the Imam was killed in an abandoned and very sorrowful way along with his family members and even his 6 months old baby,they want to shed blood for the Imam and die at his service to please Allah.if the Imam was willing not to compromise for the sake of Islam and was so loyal to Allah,we also should emulate that spirit.

some of our scholars do support this view.others do not.those who do not support this view hold that it is haram to inflict oneself or harm oneself.they say that Imam Hussain was beheaded and his blood was shed by the ungodly,so why should we do to ourselves what the evil people did to our Imam?if we want to show love to our Imam,we can do that by remembering him and attending lectures on the commemoration of the day and carrying out symbolic acts like beating our chests (lightly) to bring back the memory of Karbala.we can remember the Imams symbolically and spiritually and islamically without hurting ourselves.an alternative like the saudi shias in the eastern parts of saudi arabia do,they donate their blood (for transfusion) to hospitals.those healthy individuals can donate their blood to help people survive and keep them alive like the way the Imam sacrificed his blood so that Islam will remain alive and healthy just the way it was revealed to his grandfather the Prophet Muhammad (sa).those against blood-letting also think the image of shias cutting themselves gives a bad impression in the minds of non-believers.those who cut themselves think they are not indebted to anyone to prove their enlightenment or sense of civilization when their acts is purely an act of devotion and sacrifice.

As you can see,this act is solely a matter of intentions.therefore a shia is free to show his love the way he feels best in accordance with the fatwas of his Marji (scholar of highest authority in shia islam that issue fatwas,the likes of ayatollah Khomeini and ayatollah Sistani).

Based on intention,no one would dictate to you how to express your intentions or not to.on this note,the issue does not act a divisive issue because we all think that everyone mourning for Imam Hussain is doing his best to remember the Imam and bring back the lessons of Karbala to life in our modern times.

Personally I have never inflicted wounds upon myself.i do beat my chest and I cry to an unimaginable extent when the Sheikh or Sayyid narrates Imam Hussain’s sufferings in Karbala and that of his family members and loyal friends including his six months old baby.as I am typing this,I am only managing to control myself from shedding tears.there is a saying that “Karbala is a wound that never heals in the heart of the believer”.i really feel sad and spiritually overcome when I hear anything about Imam Hussain.if you truly attend the commemoration on the 10th of Muharram which is just a few weeks away,you will understand what I am saying.you should first try and study the event itself and the sacrifice each member that was matyred in Karbala did and refrained from doing for the sake of Islam and the Imam.the event is the epitome of islamic sacrifice and the love for Allah.


As I was saying,I believe in sincerity.i believe if I can be moved to shed tears,I should also be moved to an unconscious state where I can cut myself.but consciously I don’t think it is reasonable for me to inflict wounds on my body.ofcourse I have to mourn Imam Hussain,that is a sunnah of the Prophet.but I can do that in more than one way to express my grief,sadness and love for the Imam.i don’t think it should be done cold-bloodedly.i am not saying those who cut themselves are acting or are being hypocritical.may Allah reward them for their good intentions and Allah will surely reward me for mine too.all of us have the same goal but using different methods.at the end we are all one and we do love Imam Hussain above ourselves.may my soul and the souls of my parents be sacrificed for the sake of Imam Hussain.

https://www.nairaland.com/554337/imam-ali-own-words/1#7215539

vedaxcool: ^
just avoid answering the simple question was Zaynab lying when she said kufee shias murdered Husayn r.a u invented a leeway to escape? Oh dear you really deserve pity! Kufee shias are solely responsible for the death of Husayn r.a, you can either refer to the thread posted earlier or keep deceiving yourself on that very matter!

Definately Zaynab was speaking the truth when she said Kufee shias murdered that much I know there I said what you tried so hard in dribbling your way from. Personally this thread is a waste of my time where crocodile tears and pretense are elevated to the height of religious piety! My own patience is wearing thin!

vedaxcool: The one in bondage here, are those who fail to acknowledge the very fact that Zaynab speaks the truth that Kufee shais are killed Husayn r.a!

Now you clearly stated that who Muslim, which offcourse is not the bone of contention and which if you read the thread I posted , clearly states how it happened, that is 18 men entered Kufa and the Kufee shias even after pledging their allegiance and were the cause of their muslim being still refused to provide protection from the 18 men, in Kufa alone 18000 men had pledge their allegiance (there were more than that amount of men in the whole of Kufa) and this men stood and did nothing ro save Muslim even when Muslim tried to hide an woman exposed his hiding place! But the real issue remains Kufee shias killed Husayn r.a and they were not even part of Yazeed army rather they killed Husayn r.a to cover their tracks, no amount of accrobatics would change this fact, Husayn only reason for being in Kufa was because Kufee shias invited him there and the same shias will not only fail to up hold their words but will also deliberately kill him to save their necks! And the very man who killed him, Shimr would be the same man who fought on the side of Ali r.a against Muawiyah! Clearly the shias have all evidence pointing at them, go have fear of Allah if you are really interested in holding Islam!

vedaxcool: Now do you why this is becoming a case of shia double speak? The very fact that rather than acknowledge what Zaynab said to be true you are simply dribbling your own self left and right! Zaynab said clearly the Kufee shias killed Husayn r.a what is there to argue? You still refuse to acknowledge they killed him! Husayn himself again said the Kufee shias were responsible for his death! So what are you really arguing for? The link I placed clearly chronicled the event from start to finish! Now you can either read the link or continue going in circles, something I am not interested in doing, everything I wrote in my previous response were in direct response to your question! My has been left unanswered which simply is was Zaynab lying whens she said Kufee shias where the ones who kill Husayn, now a simple Yes or No would suffice! Trying to play semantics won't just work here! And I do not represent Yazeed only the truth, which Zaynab spoke of and of which you want to dispute, I did not post the text Zhul Fiqah did. Since no shia here can answer the simple question on whether Zaynab was speaking truthfully or falsely when she said Kufee Shias murdered Husayn r.a remains a huge indictment on the very dishonest myth you guys perpetuate to deceive novices on who is responsible for Husayn death! I remeber lagosshia even denied that fact! I only posted to show him his inability to remember his lies and his shia trait of posting whatever suit his case!

vedaxcool: You are joking right? Kufan's are shia because even Husayn r.a referred to them as such, so any grouse you have with that should be directed at Husayn r.a and shia scholars who termed them such!

Now if you read my post you would clearly Husayn r.a. See that Husayn r.a puts the blame squarely on his shia not Yazid, why, let me restate

The shee’ah who invited Hussain (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) to Koofah were also the ones who in fact killed him. When Hussain (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) saw their treachery he said,
“ I did not come to Koofah without being asked to come. I received numerous letters from you stating you had no Imaam and you asked me to come. So it was obligatory upon you to stick to your promise and to obey me, but you broke your promise and your pledge of allegiance to me. This is not something strange or new to us as you people proved disloyal and treacherous to my father (‘Alee (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) and my brother (Hasan (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) and my first cousin Muslim bin A’qeel. If you did not wish for me to come then I will return back to where I came from. Taareekh al-Umam Wal-Malook (2/228-229).

The two bolded point shows something:

1. That Husayn r.a only set out for Kufa because he was invited not because for any other reason!

2. That the Kufee shias had a knack for traitorship and betrayal which spans more than 4 family members!


So was Husayn r.a against Yazid, yes he disagreed with ruling, did it lead to military conflict no, it was Kufee shias that created the clash between Yazid and Husayn r.a.

Now why did they kill Husayn r.a, they did this to cover their tracks and that is why both Zaynab and Husayn r.a blamed the Shias for killing him, it was said the leaders of Kufee feared Yazid so much that they deliberately killed Husayn r.a in order to retrieve the letters that would implicate them. In any case the words of both Husayn and Zaynab puts the death of Husayn squarely on the kufee shias. Even shia scholars did the same thing, and all this can be found in the link I placed!


Why don't I commemorate the death of Husayn r.a?

I did a thread on the reason we don't do so and it is simply that the Prophet pbuh did not practice such. He neither commemorated the death of his wife, his children, Hamza, and numerous muslims who died in the path of Allah! Moreso why don't you commemorate the death of Ali r.a Hamza, Zayd (great grand son of the prophet) etc. That reason that has stopped you from commemorting their death can easily make your commemoration of the death of Husayn r.a look like crocodile tears. I remember clearly that Umar r.a was martyr on the 4th of Muharram did anybody commemorate his death? no! Uthman r.a was matyr did anybody commemorate his death? No! even the very first woman who died for Islam is not being commemorated, why simply because the Prophet pbuh did not command such! It is that simple!

vedaxcool: You haven't answer the question, the kufee shias (the same people were partisans of Ali r.a) were solely responsible for the death of Husayn r.a. And that is what Zaynab said, they killed Husayn not just betrayal but deliberately in covering their tracks, all the long semantics did not even acknowledge the words of Zaynab r.a I did a thread which answered all your questions, www.nairaland.com/826513/o-allah-judge-between-us let me give you a quote from it



The shee’ah who invited Hussain (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) to Koofah were also the ones who in fact killed him. When Hussain (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) saw their treachery he said,
“I did not come to Koofah without being asked to come. I received numerous letters from you stating you had no Imaam and you asked me to come. So it was obligatory upon you to stick to your promise and to obey me, but you broke your promise and your pledge of allegiance to me. This is not something strange or new to us as you people proved disloyal and treacherous to my father (‘Alee (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) and my brother (Hasan (radi-Allaahu ‘anhu) and my first cousin Muslim bin A’qeel. If you did not wish for me to come then I will return back to where I came from.Taareekh al-Umam Wal-Malook (2/228-229).


So you see if you review the thread dispassionately u would have reason to remove the scale from your eyes

vedaxcool: Lol! so you play dodge ball? The only question you have tried hard to evade is simple:

Was Zaynab lying when she said Shias (kufees) killed Husayn r.a ? It is that simple, no need to ask question that has no bearing on what I am inquiring about! Zaynab is supposedly a witness in all that transpired and she holds the Kufee responsible for the murder of Husayn r.a. If you in tight box just tag out rather than engage in senseless semantics! So the fact remains that Yazid r.a did not kill Husayn r.a rather it was the shias of Kufee who murdered and that is what Zaynab, Yazid might have been out to fight Husayn r.a or even suppressed the rebellion that the Kufee shias instigated but it was the same Kufee shias who created all the lies that would eventually kill Husayn just to cover their tracks!

vedaxcool: Word games won't help you here was zaynab lying or not when she said you shias (Kuffans) murdered Husayn r.a, being that the same Kuffans actually invited him to come and be their Iman only to murder him! Keep lying Yazid when it is clear who killed him!

vedaxcool: Lol! This is the most idiotic response any shia has brought on the table, was Zaynab lying when she said Kufans (shias) killed Husayn or not, if yes, direct your anger at them and stop the militant display of hypocrisy! Shikena. No one asked for you double speak, address the issue if you can leave my post alone Lagosshia! How uses their hypocrisy to hang them, all this while lying on Yazeed that he killed Husayn r.a while like I have maintained, it was the hand work of shias.

maclatunji: Actually, LagosShia's many posts don't show anything more than the fact that Aisha (RA) was a normal wife who had disagreements with her husband. Ultimately, the husband was happy enough to keep her as his wife until his death. No need to write long epistles on her status in Islam. It is obvious to anyone with a clear mind.

Keep deluding yourself- none of your Ayatollah's has more judicial power than the one ready to pass a "death sentence" on LagosShia for his actions on this thread. It is a good thing to curb him if not for any other reason for his own safety since he doesn't even understand the creed he claims to defend.

#Notsofunnyish.

LagosShia: this is really a good article and nicely written as well.

in addition to the points raised in the article,i want to add a few.

there is also the factor of the Ahlul-Bayt (as).when you believe in the wilayah (love/leadership/support) of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) you're definitely a step closer to Allah (swt).this is the type of topic where we understand why the Prophet (sa) likened the Ahlul-Bayt (as) to the ark of Noah and said anyone who embarks in the ark is saved and anyone who abandons it is doomed.life is all about struggle and striving to better yourself and your world.that is the essence of life.when you develop the love of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) that will take you to the love of Allah (swt).

when you look at the lives of the purified members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as),you understand that there is nothing too hard that others have not faced and nothing too good that others have not done and surpassed you.that is why the purified members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) referred to in verse 33:33 of the Holy Quran are called the "proof" or hujjah (decisive argument) of Allah (swt) upon creation.the Ahlul-Bayt (as) have faced the hardest of times and succeeded and they have also done the greatest of ibadah in those times.whether you are a new convert to Islam or born a Muslim,an attachment to the Ahlul-Bayt (as) creates such an emotional attachment based on love and admiration that takes you a step closer to Allah (swt).when you see the most righteous of Allah's creation and the best of creation,Muhammad (sa) and his pure Ahlul-Bayt (as),have faced the worse oppression and triumphed,then definitely you only feel motivated to reach out more for Allah's mercy.

when you remind yourself of the struggles Prophet Muhammad (sa) went through and the suffering he faced in badr,uhud and taif,you know Islam is the religion that leads to eternal success through struggle.you also know in that struggle is a life with meaning that makes you feel fulfilled and pleased with life itself.then you remind yourself that Muhammad (sa) is a true prophet and man of God who is not only hated during his time by evil forces but even after his death and throughout the centuries.his sacrifices continued.when Yazid made a very evil and gruesome statement when Imam Hussain's (as) head was brought to him:"how i wish my ancestors in Badr witness this (i.e. the killing of Hussain,Prophet Muhammad's grandson)",you will know how evil forces operate in society and in the selves of people and how great the sacrifice of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) in the path of Islam.Yazid was referring to his oppressive and arrogant ancestors in the battle of Badr who were humbled by the power of Allah (swt) and through the iman,truthful promise and spiritual strength of Muhammad (sa) and by the sword of Imam Ali (as).

when you send salam to Imam Hussain (as) after offering your obligatory salat and you say:

"Assalamu Alal Hussain,Wa Ala Aliyib-nil-Hussain,Wa Ala Awlad Al-Hussain,Wa Ala Ashabil Hussain"-Peace be upon Hussain,and upon Ali the son of Hussain,and upon the children of Hussain and upon the companions of Hussain"

...you feel you have done a worthwhile action.there is that total sense of satisfaction and purity at heart and sincerity in purpose,which is to pelase Allah (swt) no matter how tedious satan makes you see about following that path.Imam Hussain (as) was offering salat in Karbala when arrows where raining on him and his companions were using their bodies to shield him.you feel you're on the right path through the love for the Ahlul-Bayt (as).

to conclude,this emotional attachment to the Ahlul-Bayt (as) of Muhammad and to Muhammad (sa) makes you love Allah (swt) and the religion of Allah (swt) more and appreciate that path of fulfilling and joyful struggle and even hardship unto the path of success and eternal bliss.even when shaitan whispers in your ears and tries to distract you and society create problems,the proofs of Allah upon His creation make what you see as "burdensome" very light to carry and face and even decisively defeat the impediments as the blood of Imam Hussain (as) triumphed upon the sword of the tyrant in Karbala; and as Imam Ali (as) exclaimed his first words when he was struck with a poisoned sword by a follower of satan, while praying,his words in embracing martyrdom were:"By the Lord of the Ka'ba,I have triumphed"!!! this courage of Imam Ali (as) at that point uttering those words,and best examples of Islamic conduct and morals built on faith and combined with utter submission to the will of Allah (swt) will insha'Allah make us all better Muslims and good believers in Muhammad (sa) and the Ahlul-Bayt of Muhammad (sa).brothers and sisters,the wilyah of the pure members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and understanding their wilayah is very important to both submission (Islam) and faith (Iman).

gent paris: Religion of peace indeed. You can spew your hate all you want against them. God is with israel.

LagosShia: Pictures of Christian brothers in Kaduna joining the Al-Quds Day Procession Organized by the Islamic Movement of Nigeria under the leadership of Sheikh Ibrahim Zakzaky (ha):

https://islamicmovement.org/images/stories/qudskd12/DSC08003.JPG

https://islamicmovement.org/images/stories/qudskd12/DSC08007.JPG

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https://islamicmovement.org/images/stories/qudskd12/DSC08052.JPG

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