₦airaland Forum

atbu1983:
Rubbish. So since my Moniker is ATBU, then i graduated from ATBU. See how shallow you are.
I am a graduate of the great University of Benin.

uniben?? your head dey therre...according to these goons anybody who doesnt support biafra is a fulani slave!! so the day ojukwu ran for president of the zoo, he became a fulani slave eunuch

I just read a controversial topic earlier claiming that eredo in yoruba land is the largest earthwork in the world . This is totally false . I do not intend to spark a tribal war but to just correct these erroneous assertions made today. Even the picture put up on that thread is that of the igodomigodo moats

Edo, the people of Igodomigodo famously known for almost a millennium as Benin, had built a moat complex to protect themselves in the wars they fought. Oral history still credits the military strategy to Oba Oguola (about 1280 AD)
The Benin moat, also known traditionally as Iya,is the largest man-made earthworks in the world. It is larger than Sungbo's Eredo.[1] It enclosed 6,500 km² of community lands. Its length was over 16,000 km of earth boundaries. It was estimated that earliest construction began in the 13th century and continued into the mid-15th century. It predates the use of modern earth-moving equipment or technology in these parts. The moat encircles the old perimeter precincts of the City and was constructed as a defensive barrier in times of war. {5th} Oba Oguola {about 1280-1295} dug the first and second moats to fortify the City from invaders, including the Imperial European invaders, who at the time were hunting for African slaves labourers, Oba Oguola further decreed that important towns and Villages should build similar moats as defence systems around their communities.This gave rise to twenty of such moats around Benin and its environs. An extension of the moat was constructed in the 15th century during the reign of {12th} Oba Ewuare the Great (1440-1473 CE). The Benin moat is over 16,000 km kilometers long. The Walls of Benin City was the world's largest man-made earth structure.[2] Fred Pearce wrote in New Scientist:

"They extend for some 16,000 kilometres in all, in a mosaic of more than 500 interconnected settlement boundaries. They cover 6,500 square kilometres and were all dug by the Edo people. In all, they are four times longer than the Great Wall of China, and consumed a hundred times more material than the Great Pyramid of Cheops. They took an estimated 150 million hours of digging to construct, and are perhaps the largest single archaeological phenomenon on the planet.[3]

.



Defensive Fortification of Ancient Benin City: The Benin Moat

Edo, the people of Igodomigodo famously known for almost a millennium as Benin, had built a moat complex to protect themselves in the wars they fought. The defensive fortification of Benin City, the capital,
consisted of ramparts and moats, call iya, enclosing a 4000 square kilometer (2485.5 miles) of community lands. In total, the Benin wall system encompasses over 16,000 kilometers (9941.7 miles) of earth boundaries. Patrick Darling, an archaeologist, estimates that the complex was built between 800 and
1000 up to the late fifteenth century (Keys 1994: 16). Advantageously situated, the moats were dug in such a manner that earthen banks provided outer walls that complemented deep ditches. According to Graham Connah, the ditch formed an integral part of the intended barrier but was also a quarry for the material to construct the wall or bank (Keys 1994: 594). The ramparts range in size from shallow traces to the immense 20-meter-high (66 feet) around Benin City (Wesler 1998: 144). The Guinness Book of World Records describes the walls of Benin City as the world's second largest man-made structure after China's Great Wall, in terms of length, and the series of earthen ramparts as the most extensive earthwork in the world.

During the second half of the 15th century, Oba Ewuare the Great (ruled 1440-1473 AD) ordered a moat to be dug in the heart of the city. The earthworks served as a bastion and also afforded control of access to
the capital which had nine gates that were shut at night. Travel notes of European visitors also described the Benin walls (e.g. Pacheco Pereira 1956: 130-147; Dapper 1668). It was finalized around 1460, at that time being the world's largest earthwork. (See historical photos of Benin City).

Early European visitors never failed to be impressed with the Benin City's grandeur and level of organization. Benin as it appears in documents of the seventeenth century the natural reflection of centralized
wealth was its magnificent capital city Benin. Reports from the anonymous. Dutchman D.R. (c. 1600) and David van Nyendael (some fifty years later) described Benin City as an extraordinarily extensive and flourishing city which easily matched the European metropolis of it time (Hodgkin 1960: 119-120;
Ben-Amos 1995: 42ff). The Portuguese compared it with Lisbon, the Dutch with Amsterdam or Antwerp, the Italians with Florence, and the Spaniards with Madrid (Kea 1971: 187). Its size was matched by dense habitation; houses built close to each other along long, straight streets. The royal palace, a city within the
city, was also impressive, with countless squares and patios and innumerable
doors and passageways, all richly decorated with the art that has made Benin
famous. The city was orderly, well laid out, and sparkling clean so that the
walls of the houses appeared polished (Dapper 1693: 122). The people clothes;
some are dressed in white, others in yellow, others in blue or green; and the
city captains are regular judges who resolve lawsuits, debates and
conflicts.

The role of the Imperialist
Britain and its machinations loomed large. Philips and his treacherous British party of traders had forcibly visited the king in his palace during the Ugi’erh’Oba Festival and the war the British called Benin Expedition had taken place in 1897. In September of that year, Oba Ovonramwen had been taken into exile. After his exit, Britain forced its government on Benin, ruling from the grounds of the palace of the Oba it had sent on exile.

The British ruled the roost in most of the vast Indian sub-continent at that time. It also wanted to rule the waves and there under its thumb was Benin in decline. What could it lose helping the fall of perhaps the only empire it had heard about and had feared in these parts? Just a shove and the people might hit the red dust! So, why wouldn’t it try?

The British split Oba Ovonramwen’s palace grounds and extended old roads through parts of them. On one part it built the Police Station and Barracks, the General Hospital, the Public Works Department and to the north of it, a complex of administrative buildings. On a second part, further south-west, it built the Prisons and a cluster of buildings it called Clerks Quarters to accommodate non-European staff.

Its remorseless war against Benin and her Empire did not end there. It had begun when it declared Lagos (Eko) a protectorate, decades earlier. Not a whimper came from the people of Igodomigodo. Oba Ovonramwen died in exile in 1914. For the first time, a monarch of Igodomigodo slept away from the land of his birth yet, Benin snored. What new bile the British had acquired! By the same year, it had declared Nigeria a colony of the British Crown. About 1915, it took the long seashore which had exposed the land of metropolitan Benin to the World and handed it to Warri for “administrative convenience”. And Benin snored still. About 1916, the British forcibly leased Igodomigodo’s land from Ologbo to the Ethiope River to their kin of today’s Delta State for a pittance of fifty-two pounds a year. And Benin have not even stirred to ask for their rent in sixty years!

not as extensive as the Benin moats.. consult wikipedia

atbu1983 create a new thread with this your post above. It is far too brilliant to be soiled by the theme of this imperialist thread

atbu1983:
What South South Niger Delta wants is 50% Resource Control not biafra

Igbo are using the support they gave to Jonathan in 2015 election as blackmail to convert Niger delta struggle to biafra. Niger delta struggle is 50% resource control. This deception will not work. They only supported Jonathan because they got alot of appointments under Jonathan. They are just selfish and greedy people. Niger Delta Struggle is completely different from biafra agitation. Igbo supported Obasanjo against thier own son and hero Ojukwu in 2003 election, they should go and claim yoruba instead.

As far as I am concern Igbo, Yoruba and Hausa are all benefiting from the current system. After all an Igbo man Gen Agunyi Ironsi created the Unitary System for Nigeria in 1966 that we are complaining against today. Gen Agunyi Ironsi set the foundation for the destruction of regional federalism in Nigeria. if not for his love for total control and domination (The disease of an average Igbo man), Niger delta would have be enjoying 50% resource control today. When Isaac Adaka Boro wanted to form Ijaw Nation Republic in 1966 it was Igbo Head of State Gen Agunyi Ironsi that fought him with a 12 day war.

The Igbo claim to be one of us because some South South states were part of the old Eastern region. First of all, eastern region was created by Nigeria for Nigeria convenience. It was not a decision of the nationalities that made up the old eastern region. Secondly before most people forget, today Edo and Delta state were never at anytime part of eastern region. Edo and Delta states were first part of Western region later became Midwestern region, then change to Bendel state before becoming Edo and Delta state today. Some tribes speak Yoruba in Edo and Delta state. Why is yoruba not claiming Edo and Delta state the way igbo is claiming Rivers and Delta states because some people speak ibo in those states?

Igbo may have succeeded in brainwashing some South South people that they are one of us, it is a big lie. They may have succeeded in brainwashing some of us that only hausa and yoruba is the problem of South South, it is a big lie. They are the same as far as I am concern.

The problem with Igbo is greed, self-entitlement and born to rule, control and exploit mentality. Qatar is smaller than Bayelsa in population and half d size of Bayelsa state by landmass. Bayelsa is four times the size of Singapore. if Qatar and Singapore can be a country, why cant we have an Ijaw nation as a country? Do u think Ijaw people dont want to be like Qatar and enjoy their oil alone like Qatar does? Note: Bayelsa State is d smallest state in the south south by population and second to the last by landmass!!


Below is the size of south south states and south east states. South South is almost 3 times the size of south East.
Yet the population of South east is almost 80% of south south population base on 2006 census. But by the time you add igbo who are currently leaving outside south east, you will discover that thier population is more than all the south south put together. More than 90% of the resources (oil, gas, limestones,etc) are in the south south. The whole of South East is landlock with no direct access to the sea or atlantic ocean. but almost all the south south states have direct assess to the sea and atlantic ocean. Some will say they have River Niger. River Niger is not a sea or an ocean for big Ships.

Tell me why South South Nations will want to form a country with south east if they have a choice ? all south east will bring to the table is population and domination? The total oil production from south east is not up to 10% of south south oil production!

If you are the leader of south south nations will you advice them to form a country with south east if they have the option of forming their own country alone? give a sincere answer!!

As far as I am concern, as unbrainwashed south south , there is no difference between the Igbo, Yoruba and Hausa. To me, these are three major tribe struggling and fighting for Supiriority. Whenever any of the three is loosing, he shout marginalization.

During Jonathan govt, the Igbos were gaining and were in control and were happy. The Yoruba were losing and were shouting marginalization. The hausa/fulani were not happy because they were not fully in control. For the North we can slightly understand because in the 16years of democracy (May 1999 to May 2015) the south ruled 13.3years while the North had just 2.7years

The Igbo don't love south south more than the hausa or Yoruba love us. All the three tribe are all struggling for the control of south south oil. None of the three is better than the other as far as we south south are concern.

The only place south south nationalities agree with Igbo is Nigeria should divide . However while south south clamour for succession is base on lack of true fiscal Federalism and resource control, on the other hand, igbo clamour for succession is base on IGBO BORN TO RULE, CONTROL AND EXPLOIT MENTALITY. Igbo make noise and claim d north have born to rule mentality because of Sokoto State former licence plate motto of born to rule which they have change. The People with the true born to rule mentality are d Igbo. it is because they are not having thier way that they are complaining and making all d noise all over Nigeria.

But how and why Nigeria will and should divide, what we want and what they want is as different as d distance of the earth to d moon.

South south want resource control or thier own freedom. we will support Biafra as Igbo only nation while they should support us to form our own nation or nations. But trying to add us as an appendage to Biafra will never happen.

If south south join Biafra, our individual identities will be wiped out in less than 50years. They will convert every south south nationality to Igbo. And they will so much take charge of the oil and resources with reckless abandon without any regard to d minorities.

LET EVERYONE FORMS HIS OWN NATION IF WE CAN'T GET 50% RESOURCE CONTROL. SOUTH SOUTH NATIONS DONT WANT IGBO, YORUBA OR HAUSA IN THIER NATION. WE DONT WANT ANY DOMINANT TRIBE TO CONTROL US IF OR WHEN NIGERIA DIVIDE.

They will argue that there are some igbo in rivers state, delta state and edo state. As far as i am concern Igbo speaking people in south south will join Niger delta republic or confederation. Their are Hausa people in Niger, there are Yoruba people in Benin Republic and Togo. Does that make those yoruba and hausa speaking people in those countries Nigerians?

The south south nationalities can form a confederation with United Arab Emirate template, where seven different nationalities came together to form a confederation with each nationality having some form of autonomy.

if the south east want to join the confederation they can join. We can't leave nigeria and go and form another normal single country were there is a dominant tribe. That will be moving from frying pan to fire.

Just like the United Ararb emirate asked qatar and behrain to join them, but qatar and behrain choose to form thier individual countries.

What Biafra represent is a single country with a powerful centre where a dominant tribe can control. South south dont want that. If we must fight or struggle for succession, we need a new name like "United State of niger delta" or any other name which clearly shows a union rather than a single country.

We need to set the record straight before south south nations make the mistake of south Sudan. It is more than Four years south sudan left
sudan to form thier country. Since that time south sudan has been in War while North Sudan enjoy peace. This was because nations in
south sudan came together to form a single country without ensuring that thier difference in ethnicity was fully discuss. Some
part of south sudan are now feeling marginalized. That is exactly what will happen if Igbo succeed in forcing south south nations into
Biafra. That so called Biafra wont have peace. It will be another Somalia!!!!

For peace to rain let Igbo form Biafra from the Five south east state and let the the six states in south south form a confederation or seperate nations. Anything outside this will never work.

I do not hate Igbo people. Many of my friends are Igbo. I only hate thier deceit and greed. what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
What we dont want is a dominant tribe simple. If south south join Biafra, that country will be 60% Igbo. How do you think other minorities can compete in that kind of country? Whether we like it or not we both know that Igbo are not diplomatic people by nature. That will lead to complete extinction of other tribe. in less than 50years they will make the whole Biafra Ibo without any consideration.

I dont hate Igbo. But i hate when i know the Biafra they seek is a Biafra with current south south as an appendage to it.
Why cant they support our freedom, and we will support thier freedom. Why do igbo make it look like it is wrong for Niger Delta people to seek thier own freedom outside Biafra? In biafra current south south minority will be like conquered people. God forbid that to happen.

a quote from Isaac Adaka Boro Autobiography (wriiten himself). Read Chapter 5 - Campus Politics
http://www.adakaboro.org/the12dayrev/chapter-5-campus-politics.
This was the campaign statement of his opponent for UNN SUG presidency:
"My opponent, Ejiogu, took the floor when I had finished, and what did he say? "Ladies and gentleman, this is a crucial time in Nigeria when we should not allow a vocal minority to rule an obvious majority.
These words still ring in my memory because, as my opponent put it, they are crucial not only to me but to my people, the Ijaws. Most of the alien students walked out of the hall and it seemed as if a spell was cast on the atmosphere. The campaigns ended solemnly and the result of the election was again one way. Ejiogu won with his majority. The last minute strategy. A Cameroonian friend of mine, John Ngole, promptly resigned his secretaryship of the Historical Society in protest."

I am very sure that Nigeria will divide faster if Igbo seek Biafra with 5 south east state alone and Niger delta republic seek a country with the 6 South south states alone at the same time. Once the Hausa and Yoruba sees that Igbo are supporting a Niger Delta republic separate from Biafra, they will see it as true struggle. But if the struggle is about Biafra with south south in it, where Igbo will gain south south resources with Yoruba and Hausa loosing out, I bet you until South South oil finishes, Nigeria wont divide.

If we cant get resource control, we don't need to form a single country with Igbo, we can seek for our separate nation on two front simultaneously but not on one front. What we need is cooperation from Igbo not togetherness with Igbo. If they truly want to leave Nigeria and liberate Niger delta people from dominant tribes, they should support us to form our nation as they form thiers. I bet you when that happen, the struggle will be half won.

The Ojukwu Biafra was Igbo dream not Ijaw, Esan, Urhobo, Itsekiri, Ikwerre, ogoni, ibibio, etc dream.

In summary, my point is that why the primary interest of Niger Deltans is resource control, Igbo primary interest is seperation from Nigeria with Niger delta as thier trophy. Igbo wants a nation where they can become the lord, control and dominate others. Since in Nigeria, Hausa and yoruba are ahead of them in the power struggle, they resort to blackmail and cry foul claiming marginalization.

if Nigeria will divide peacefully by United Nations referendum, south south will not join Biafra. Peaceful division of Nigeria can only be into a minimum of five countries (Arewa republic, Niger Middle belt, United Niger Delta, Oduwa republic, and Biafra). South South will form its own nation/nations. The only way south south and south east will form a single country like Biafra is if Nigeria divide by War because population will be important in size of Army.

My Igbo neighbour may not like this submission, but it is the bitter truth

God bless u.

mohajenny:
Hello i am miss Jenny i am looking for friendship please contact me now so you can know more about me with my pics jernnifermohamed@gmail.com

la contact la die

God dun catch una... creating fake threads claiming IPob is holding protest in interest areas.. in fact Rivers state government should check the influx of these ungrateful guests who want to spit in the wash water

where is the picture of the protesting youths nah?? Buafrans fit lie for Africa

Biafra suppose fight their own wars nah.. I don't see the point in creating threads claiming that South south and ND youths are gearing for war! From Asaba down to the Cameroon border, from escravos to auchi, there is no south south town that wants a share in Biafra

A king wants his daughter to marry the smartest of 3 extremely intelligent young princes, and so the king's wise men devised an intelligence test. The princes are gathered into a room and seated, facing one another, and are shown 2 black hats and 3 white hats. They are blindfolded, and 1 hat is placed on each of their heads, with the remaining hats hidden in a different room. The king tells them that the first prince to deduce the color of his hat without removing it or looking at it will marry his daughter. A wrong guess will mean death. The blindfolds are then removed. You are one of the princes. You see 2 white hats on the other prince's heads. After some time you realize that the other prince's are unable to deduce the color of their hat, or are unwilling to guess. What color is your hat? Note: You know that your competitors are very intelligent and want nothing more than to marry the princess. You also know that the king is a man of his word, and he has said that the test is a fair test of intelligence and bravery.

What does a 75 year old woman have between her breasts that a 25 year old doesn't?

UPDATE

As the Op I was shocked this made front page. I feel I and several other individuals have far more brilliant FP worthy topics. I am sorry to all who felt offended , we don't have to look at every joke from a sexual angle. I'm sorry

Thanks Lalasticlala ishilove seun antispambot
PS kindly move one of my threads to FP. Thanks

Aizenosa:
Lol at least your phone has it so what did it say.

my phone said that king James was flawless

Aizenosa:
It's either you don't get the understanding, he himself was the author, he was a scholar in Latin and Hebrew.

I dey shame for you.. coupled with the fact that you are from my state too I have deep regrets. You mean your phone doesn't support Wikipedia? Just Google King James Version. The results will interest you

Aizenosa:
The famous king James I or iv

Wetin dey worry you sef? you no go school? King James sponsored the translation of the bible (KJV), he didn't write it. And I know about him too, so what did you say he did? because I didn't see any wrong thing done by him

[quote author=Aizenosa post=38917018][/quote]I don't know about the author who 'wrote' the KJV.. please educate me

Aizenosa:
Have you ever Google the so called person who wrote your dear KJV bible. Lol

I strive not to use derogatory terms but at times the audacity of ignorance is shocking at least.

Note that the books in the KJV were written by their respective authors eg Pentateuch by moses, psalms by David and Asaph, Paul's epistles by himself, revelation by John at Patmos etc
The KJV however is a translation , so I'm eager to ask what's funny??

The heir-apparent to the Benin throne, His Royal Highness,
Crown Prince Eheneden Erediauwa was on Tuesday, October
6, 2015 formally initiated into the Royal Palace Chamber of
Iwebo in conformity with the Benin custom.

The colourful event which lasted for seven days took place in
the Royal Chambers of the Iwebo group. The event was
officiated by the Iwebo chiefs led by their functioning Head,
Chief Eribo in the absence of Chief Uwangue, Head of the
Iwebo group.

At the end of the seven-day event, the Crown Prince in
company of many chiefs, prominent Edos and other well-
wishers moved from the Palace of the Oba to the Royal Palace

of Edaiken N’Uselu to formally assume his position as the
Edaiken of Uselu. This is a precursor to assuming the title of
the Oba of Benin
It was indeed a moment of historical reality and royal
grandeur with sonorous traditional songs, and a
complimentary outpouring of affections and solidarity from the
people for His Royal Highness, Crown Prince Ehenede,
Edaiken N’Uselu.

There are three main societies in the Oba’s Palace namely
Iwebo, Iweguae and Ibiwe. Each society occupies its own
section of the Palace and entry into it is by special initiation
usually lasting seven days. They were established during the
reign of Oba Ewuare the Great in the 15th Century. In the 16th
Century, two Obas, namely Esigie (1504 A.D.) and Ehengbuda
(1550 A.D.) carried out reforms in Iwebo and Iweguae
societies respectively.

Iwebo, the most senior society takes charge of the royal
ward-robe and regalia, making and repairing the coral bead
garments and ornaments used by the Oba on ceremonial
occasions. In the past, this society used to oversee financial
matters, trade and commerce. With the exception of Oloton,
all the other six members of the Uzama have to be initiated
into lwebo society as nominal members before they can
assume their titles. The Oba’s eldest son on being initiated
into it, has to attain the rank of Uko N’Iwebo (like every other
member aspiring to a Chieftaincy title) before he is formally
conferred with the title of Edaiken of Uselu.
Iweguae is the centre of all the Palace activities and is next to
Iwebo in seniority. Occupying the central position, this section
of the Palace is the residence of the Oba and, therefore, its
members provide him with his personal and domestic
services. It is only after his coronation that the Oba can enter
into lweguae and stay. Chief Oloton is the only other Uzama
who is a nominal member of this society.
Ibiwe is the third society in the Palace and its duty is to look
after the Oba’s harem; the welfare of his wives and children.
In this regard, As in the case of lweguae, the Oba can only
enter this section after his coronation when he has to inherit
all the assets and liabilities.



http://www.ionigeria.com/benin-crown-prince-eheneden-formally-becomes-edaiken-nuselu/

Edo people wake up and chase these people from all outlying towns, they are responsible for most robberies on Agbor and Auchi roads.. Soon they would start contesting for elections in Aduwawa
Abeg make we safe guard edo land from these brigands. Oba gha to kpere .. Iseee

Is there monetary minimum and an equivalent in produce? From the story of Cain and Abel I believe that a sacrifice could be unacceptable

true

Is there a minimum I should pay as church offering?

tpiander:
No, not in the same sense.

why do you ask, btw.

I'm gathering Intel for Mossad
just kidding maybe..

.we have nationals in almost all continents, some of these could be utilized as assets and sleepers, especially these Igbo businessmen with good blending skills
but as a developing world power Nigeria should have foreign agents to assist in protecting her foreign economic interests and give timely advice to our foreign missions. The biggest problem facing our security operatives is Heineken

Obiagelli:
NIA

with covert operations ?

Does Nigeria have foreign secret agents like the CIA, FSB and ISI?

A farmer and his wife have just be murdered NY the death mongers at utekon near Benin. the community youths are presently searching for herders and their cows

I'm surprised they could revive him.. the antidote for sniper is Atropine

nnafather:
Rubbish club...looking for attention by all means.

k

ruggedtimi:
bt is not official..from the club. Looks fake like a fan page.

k

Not one of the apocryphal are written in the Hebrew language (the Old Testament was written in Hebrew). All Apocryphal books are in Greek, except one which is extant only in Latin. 2. None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration. 3. The apocryphal books were never acknowledged as sacred scriptures by the Jews, custodians of the Hebrew scriptures (the apocrypha was written prior to the New Testament). In fact, the Jewish people rejected and destroyed the apocrypha after the overthow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. 4. The apocryphal books were not permitted among the sacred books during the first four centuries of the real Christian church
5. The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places. 6. The Apocrypha includes doctrines in variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection. The following verses are taken from the Apocrypha translation by Ronald Knox dated 1954: Basis for the doctrine of purgatory: 2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin. Salvation by works: Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin. Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin. Magic: Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore. Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception): Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled. 7. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation. 8. No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times. 9. Because of these and other reasons, the apocryphal books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East. The King James translators never considered the Apocrypha the word of God. As books of some historical value (e.g., details of the Maccabean revolt), the Apocrypha was sandwiched between the Old and New Testaments as an appendix of reference material. This followed the format that Luther had used. Luther prefaced the Apocrypha with a statement: "Apocrypha--that is, books which are not regarded as equal to the holy Scriputres, and yet are profitable and good to read." King James Version Defended page 98. In 1599, TWELVE YEARS BEFORE the King James Bible was published, King James himself said this about the Apocrypha: "As to the Apocriphe bookes, I OMIT THEM because I am no Papist (as I said before) ..." King James Charles Stewart Basilicon Doron, page 13 In his, "A Premonition to All Most Mightie Monarches," --found in his Workes (a collection of the king's writings)--King James said this-- "...Is it a small corrupting of the Scriptures to make all, or the most part of the Apocrypha of equall faith with the canonicall Scriptures...?" Not only this, but the sixth article of the Thirty- nine Articles of the Church of England (1571 edition. The Church of England published the Authorized King James Version) states that (1) the Old and New Testaments are the Bible-- In the name of the Holy, we do vnderstande those canonical bookes of the olde and newe Testament, of whose authoritie was never any doubt in the Churche... (2) the apocrypha is not the Bible-- And the other bookes, (as Hierome sayeth), the Churche doth reade for example of life and instruction of manners: but yet doth it not applie them to establish any doctrene. Philip Schaff, Creeds of Christendom. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1977, Vol. III, pp. 489-491. The Hampton Court Document came as a result of the famous Hampton Court Conference of 1604 when King James specially commanded the translation of the Bible that would one day bear his name. Concerning the apocrypha and the Church of England, it states-- The Apocrypha , that hath some repugnancy to the canonical scriptures, shall not be read... Select Statutes and Other Constitutional Documents Illustrative of the Reigns of Elizabeth and James I, edited by G.W. Prothero, Fellow of King's College, Cambridge, 1894, p. 416 The Apocrypha began to be omitted from the Authorized Version in 1629. Puritans and Presbyterians lobbied for the complete removal of the Apocrypha from the Bible and in 1825 the British and Foreign Bible Society agreed. From that time on, the Apocrypha has been eliminated from practically all English Bibles--Catholic Bibles and some pulpit Bibles excepted. Not even all Catholic "Church Fathers" believed the Apocrypha was scripture. Not that this really means anything. The truth is not validated by the false. Nevertheless, this may be of interest to some... Jerome (340-420) rejected the Apocrypha: "As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine." Jerome Jerome's preface to the books of Solomon According to Edward Hills in The King James Version Defended p. 98 other famous Catholics with this viewpoint include Augustine (354-430 who at first defended the Apocrypha as canonical) , Pope Gregory the Great (540-604), Cardinal Ximenes, and Cardinal Cajetan. There are other spurious books. These include the Pseudepigrapha which contains Enoch, Michael the Archangel, and Jannes and Jambres . Many spurious books falsely claim to have been written by various Old Testament patriarchs. They were composed between 200 B.C. and 100 A.D. There are lots of these spurious books like The Assumption of Moses, Apocalypse of Elijah, and Ascension of Isaiah .

alexis007:
Google what...I would use my search-engine for more purposeful stuffs. Besides, I have met those faults on the Catholic institution, at a time when I used to identify faults in others with glee.

If, in your opinion, the Catholic faithfuls, who practise something close to your ideal Christianity, are on the wrong path, then what hope has the Muslim, the Buddhist, the Hindu, the Jew, the Rosicrucian- and every other non-Protestant out there? Hellfire awaits them with open arms?

I have seen you time without number term a ritual as 'Biblical' and denounce the other as 'Unbiblical'. I'm seriously amused at how much authority you arrogate to yourself. First and foremost, the Bible is a compilation of accepted writings approved by Catholic councils and synods: the same synods you think promotes Unbiblical practices. Why accept their Bible but reject their rituals? Protestants should have diligently compiled their own unique Holy Writ.

What you fail to understand is that the Bible is a brief and heavily-doctored Book suggesting the right access to God. If you think that only 66 books were out there for compilation, you are under an illusion. More than being the only Books, they were rather favorites- others were snobbed on account of not being inspired by God to charges of giving out too much realistic views of the human side of Jesus Christ (Mary Magdalene and the holy grail tale comes to mind).

As for the rituals in question, they are supported by accepted Catholic oral traditions. Ask me why these traditions are outside the Bible and I would ask you if Martin Luther or your General Overseer partook in the Bible's compilation. Maybe Emmanuel Adeboye or Kumuyi did.

My dear, free your mind. Live and let live. Ignore rather than criticise what means nothing to you. You see religion and politics- leave arguments inherent in them to Id!0ts. Those two issues always have more to them than meets the eye, or can ever be freely told.

Jesus Christ walked the earth perfect. That is the only truth. Christianity is a choice. there is no compulsion, it is God that draweth men unto himself. I can't convince you, that is the job of the Holy spirit.

Dan brown wrote the da Vinci code as pure fiction loosely tied around real events, and you are almost claiming the holy grail theory is true. My friend, I am a sinner, I need Jesus, we all need him to open our eyes. We must end this talk right here. God bless you

the goal of the man of sin is to unite the church and state. of late there has been this silent agenda by the internet and news agencies to remove God from daily conversation. last 3 weeks Rooney scored and pointed upwards, in 1900 it would be imagined that Rooney gave thanks to God, but last week BBC sport commentary reports that " he offers thanks to the sky".. many of us miss these silent acts screaming to our reasoning. even when england international Eniola Aluko wrote an article on how she speaks to God, the tone in the build up to the article was almost of mockery. In cases where mentioning God becomes unavoidable, they use 'church'.. and mr pope is toeing the same line, I listened to his address on how people claim to have a personal relationship with God and forsake the church, he claimed that the church has a mediatory role to play between man and God. that is a fundamental blunder. at this point the church has become very flawed with doctrines of the nicolaitanes. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I believe the pope doesnt represent Jesus' interests

alexis007:
and you know how irrelevant stuffs are best treated?

Bros, you can just IGNORE those stuffs you deem irrelevant. And still keep it in mind that these irrelevant rites you listed out there are sacred stuffs to some people, Biblical or not.

Remember how circumcision nearly caused a schism in the early Church- No thanks to a race who thought that they alone had a monopolist access to God. It took a farsighted and objective apostle in Saint Paul and the others for the early Church to wriggle out of this debacle. Today Jews and non-Jews claim entitlement to God's sonship.

Most important thing is that You keep the greatest commandment- the commandment of love. But if you insist on castigating a group of people because they failed to keep every injunction to the letter, or included traditions that they felt bonded them to the creator the more, good for you.

To every man his thought. All I know is that there shall be surprises on the last day.

my friend, every religion has it's code of operations. If you are a Christian, your manual should be only the Bible. but your folks have added several other doctrines and resolutions in your various councils. Many of these resolutions have been retracted by the catholic church over time. but the bible says God's word is unchanging. You cannot add or subtract from God's word. it is not subject to review or modification. There was argument about circumcision because it was a requirement from God and paul taught that a convert was a new creature who could see the kingdom of God, if baptised could even enter the kingdom of God. that was. the conflict. and moreover circumcision. is healthier, are you not circumcised?/? that was the conflict then; because Christ's redemptive death freed us from the laws of moses concerning atonement. where have u seen praying for the dead in the bible? or veneration/genuflection? or. Mary intercession? the so called queen of heaven is not Mary ooo! just Google that and Lilith. in my opinion Catholics are not Christians. these days listening to the pope is just like reading those anti-God posts on BBC. someone should remind the pope that we are not of this world