₦airaland Forum

You cannot pull communism without a very effective stalin like dictatorship. You need Sani Abacha to shoot people so they can cooperate.

Your ideal of communism can be achieved through
1) Trade and worker unions - this is what Western Countries uses - to allow workers to negotiate fair deals against capital owners
2) Cooperative movements - this is what countries use to organize workers and small business to also achieve that negotiating power.
3) Welfare or social safety net - to cushion the poor.

As for central planning - if you have a dictatorship and you're homogenous country - go for it! You may succeed like USSR. Hilter also succeeded. Dictators manage to get people working for common goal through fear of death and torture.

If not - then allow private sector to work it's magic - and focus on delivering basic infrastructure.

If you're a democracy - encourage formation of trade/workers union, cooperative movement and investment in social safety nets or welfare.

Hueman:
Your first mistake is thinking we should learn from western Europe. These are countries that grew their wealth from colonialism, imperialism and holding us back. There’s nothing to learn from them. Without us they’ll be living in poverty. China got to were it is with a planned economy. They became a super power without all these harmful things the west did. They industrialize really quickly without holding back the development of the rest of the world. You know who also did this The ussr. These are the people Africans need to learn from. From my definition you can see how saying we should mix socialism and capitalism is an oxymoron. What you just described you wanted was capitalism with a welfare state. And that’s still not a good thing, because workers are still not free. Workers are still exploited under these system. The system is built on imperialism which continues to harm us since we come from the global south. Fun fact: those Norwegian countries have a state owned oil company that are part of the people destroying the Niger delta. Their wealth and social services is built on imperialism. They have to destroy our environment so they can afford these stuff. That’s the truth they never tell you. Socialism are co-op with a little extra step. So you being against Marxist theory but want Co-op is kinda funny.

Import substitution was tried all over Africa in 1960s - the same period Kwame was on it - they are all failed. South Asian tigers refused to heed such advice and went for export led manufacturing - and they succeeded.

Kwame communism led to Ghana economic collapse and his subsequent overthrow. The rest are just attempt to rewrite history. Kwame was an epic failure in managing Ghana economy.

Indeed, Ghana experienced reasonably high growth soon thereafter, but by 1965 per capita growth was already negative, and when the coup d’état overthrew the Nkrumah regime in February 1966, per capita income was below its value at the time of independence

Just30:
If you know what import substitution was, you would know, that was one of the best economic policies of Nkrumah....

Depending on loans is not the best way to develop a country and that is why Kenya is suffering without any real growth..

The armed forces in Ghana were paid regularly, They only overthrew Nkrumah because he was forcing their top leaders to retire.

And this happened in a period were Britain and USA became increasingly hostile because Nkrumah was going against their world order...
And the CIA began testing their COVERT REGIME CHANGE tool..

In In Search of Enemies he writes that an official sanction for the coup does not appear in CIA documents, but he writes "the Accra station was nevertheless encouraged by headquarters to maintain contact with dissidents.

"It was given a generous budget, and maintained intimate contact with the plotters as a coup was hatched."

He says that the CIA in Ghana got more involved and its operatives were given "unofficial credit for the eventual coup".

Another declassified document written after the coup describes Nkrumah's fall as a "fortuitous windfall. Nkrumah was doing more to undermine our interests than any other black African".

I think there is something that people do not realize - Asians are not pre-industrial countries like Africa - they already had some manufacturing or industrial history - albeit not as successfully as say Europe.

In any case - what would be China gov in that shoe factory?

My view is simple - gov should concentrate on basic infrastructure, ensure there is security, ensure there is proper social investment on the kids and the poor, ensure they are playing fair regulator and umpire in the private sector space.

It should reduce red-tape, ensure macro-economics are solid (low taxation, fiscal, monetary policy that are stable), it should lay the red carpet for foreign investors, and that is it.

When it come to enterprises - gov should refuse to engage - just like communism has shown - gov just cannot succeed in private sector - or for profit sector.

Gov if it has excess taxes - after doing basic infrastructure - should invest in complimentary infrastructure - light rails, airports - name it.

or focus on informal sector in Africa - this where most enterprise exist in - and they are not private sector - gov should ensure these informal sectors are organized, regulated and formalized through cooperative model for example - and they become as competitive as any of the private sector.

obaaderemi:
There is a story in Lee Khan Yew's book From Third World To First World about a visit he made to a Chinese shoe factory (or something like that) at a time when China was still poor. The road to the factory was in bad condition.

So he asked the factory manager why they didn't build the road before setting up the factory. The manager told him if they had little man, the best thing was to build the factory first and when the factory became profitable it would produce the funds to finance the building of the road. There's a lot of lesson in that story for African leadership.

And it's a good thing if we make election campaigns about issues instead of tribalism and such things.
What should be the role of government in economic development is a good question to ask those who aspire to office either federal or local government office.

Kenya population in 2009 was 47.5M. That is census we spend 200M dollars on. Get used to that.
Now every year we are adding 1.2-1.5m people - give and take - so as we speak kenya population is roughly around 50m.
We have about 0.6M admitted in universities.
We have about 0.4M admitted in TIVET - colleges.
We have about 3.6-4m admitted in high schools.
We have about 10m admitted in primary school.
We have about 2-3m admitted in pre-primary,

There are things we have nailed.

Recently we achieved Africa 1st 100 percent primary to secondary transition. All the 1.1M kids who complete 8yrs of primary education moving to secondary - we are hunting them in slums and anywhere until we make sure everyone has reported. Incredible.

There are things we are far behind - TIVET is one of those - we want to raise admission from 0.4m to 2million in very short time.

University enrollment is okay - but if we hit 1million - that will be okay - but major problem is to ensure 100 percent high school transition to TIVET/College.

Some investment in TIVET including giving them loans and bursary like university students, we are building 200 TIVET colleges, and have risen enrollment triple in 5yrs - and we want to quadripple that in another 5yrs

Kenya TIVET Bursary Scheme: The Higher Education Loans Board Kenya invites applications for TIVET bursaries from eligible students in Technical, Industrial, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TIVET) tertiary institutions. TIVET institutions include Public National Polytechnics, Institutes of Technology and Technical Training institutes country-wide.

Elsewhere we are fine. We long stopped looking for excuses and are fixing our country.

AfriqueDuZuid:
AGAIN Kenya is almost 60 years of self rule stop making excuses like "but we have no minerals" "we don't have whites"

Kenya is almost 54m population stop making excuses"oh we 44m" "we only 5 million in Kenya"

Since 1994 till now is 30yrs. Stop looking for excuses and build more universities and colleges. You cannot be proud to have 25 universities in a country of 60m people. That is like one university for 2.5m people almost.

AfriqueDuZuid:
Kenya had a headstart along with Tanzania.

Apartheid government was under sanctions for around 30yrs while blacks were oppressed.

During that time Kenya was free roaming running their affairs, what made you not build world class universities?

Yeah yeah"but we don't have minerals" that's a lame excuse

Precisely. The real african heros like Botswana 1st president Sertese Khama never get mentioned. He is never mentioned because he was not a demagogue...he was making unpopular reforms. The rest were just enriching themselves while shouting hoarse about colonialism, racism, neocolonialism.

At the time of its independence in 1966, Botswana was the world's third-poorest country, poorer than most other African countries.[13][14][15][16][17] Its infrastructure was minimal, with only 12 kilometres (7.5 miles) of paved roads; and few of its people had formal education, with only 22 university graduates and 100 secondary school graduates.[18]

Khama set out on a vigorous economic programme intended to transform the nation into an export-based economy, built around beef, copper and diamonds. The 1967 discovery of Orapa's diamond deposits aided this programme.[13]

Khama instituted strong measures against corruption, the bane of so many other newly independent African nations. Unlike other countries in Africa, his administration adopted market-friendly policies to foster economic development . Khama promised low and stable taxes to mining companies, liberalized trade, and increased personal freedoms. He maintained low marginal income tax rates to deter tax evasion and corruption.[16] He upheld liberal democracy and non-racism in the midst of a region embroiled in civil war, racial enmity and corruption.[19] Khama embraced the rule of law.[17]

The small public service was transformed into an efficient and relatively corruption-free bureaucracy with workers hired based on merit. Calls to immediately "indigenize" the bureaucracy were resisted, and the government retained foreign expatriates working in the bureaucracy until suitably qualified locals could be found to replace them . Khama and his people also drew on[b] international advisers and consultants[/b]. Mining companies were encouraged to search the country for more resources, leading to the discovery of additional copper, nickel, and coal deposits.[18]

obaaderemi:
No evidence points to the fact that Lumumba would have been different from the others. Mugabe also pushed out the Europeans, if he had died immediately, we would have people telling us today how he would have done well if he had lived long.
FYI, Lumumba was trying to bring in an American business man to come and help him with investment in Congo shortly before he died. It would have still ended the same way with the Americans hijacking the economy.
No one can point to one positive move Lumumba made that could have grown the economy of Congo if he had lived long.

Chicken and egg - without basic infrastructure - how will agro-processing or textile work?

Africa need to invest in basic infrastructure - not shiny airports or stadiums or light rails - but definitely electricity, roads, railways, water, sewage - basic or core infrastructure - they also need to social investment in it's people (HCI - education and health) - those are the basics - plus security and etc.

Where people can argue now is how gov should engage in enterprises? how will gov invest say in textile? or agriculture? What is role of gov in such private sector endeavors? Should Africa make same mistake Nkrumah and others did by investing in private sectors - building factories - or should it become the regulator - focus on basic infrastructure - manage the macro-economics better - and leave the private sector to build textile mills.

Kenya right now are engaged in such economic debate - as we prepare for next election - and it's good break from usual tribal politics. The debate is how gov should invest - continue the top down approach - or focus on bottom - on the SMES.

The answer I believe lies in organizing the bottom of the pyramid into cooperatives - so they can be able to negotiate better and achieve economic of scale. Kenya when it took this seriously in 60s and 70s - grew at 7 percent for a decade. Similarly gov should stay out of private business...kenya has way too much public sector or state owned enterprises...that it need to get out...use the proceeds to pay off some of the debt....and invest in basic infrastructure.

From 1963 to 1973 gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an annual average rate of 6.6%, and during the 1970s it grew at an average rate of 7.2%

This was a good as Asian tigers - and it was not resource dependant.

Kenya in 80s started going down - with global oil crisis leading in 1980s - and with population increases - and South Asians left us.

obaaderemi:
We destroyed our own economy and took a loan from them.
If we were doing fine, why did we go to them for the $4bn loan in 1985?
Did they force us to take the loan?

The Yorubas have a proverb: the lender's hand is always at the top while the taker's hand is always at the bottom.

So we put ourselves under their heel by taking loans from them. They're not your friend and will never be.
Look at what they're doing to the Kenyans. Recently they forced Kenya to freeze wage increase for the next four years and to cut funding to their top universities.
The thing is that Africans should develop their economies and stop taking loans from these evil doctors.
We borrow money to build railways and roads that can not put money into the government coffers or produce jobs. Why not put money into money making labour intensive industries like agro allied and textile/ apparels
like the Asians did?
We build shiny roads, railways and buildings to dig ourselves deeper into poverty and debt. Smh.

Most of criticism IMF get is from politicians who caused the problem in the first place and find the chemotherapy from IMF tough and unpopular. Those are what you call tough conditionality or string attached. IMF come to fix a big problem - that if left alone - would led to economic collapse - and probably spread a contagion - because if Nigeria say owes people 100B dollars - and is unable to pay - it will affect those people - who also owe other people- and the entire international financial system.

Without IMF - what will you happen? The economy will collapse. The gov will be unable to pay salaries including of the armed forces. The armed forces will overthrow civilian gov and enact a military dictatorship. This is exactly what happened in Ghana in 1960s.

1965: Ghana Rejects IMF and World Bank Advance, Continues with Import Substitution Plan
Ghanaian President Kwame Nkrumah rejects IMF and World Bank recommendations to implement a economic development strategy based on non-inflationary borrowing and reduced government spending. Ghana’s refusal to implement these reforms makes it ineligible to receive loans from the two institutions. Nkrumah continues with a policy aimed at diversifying the Ghanaian economy through import substituting industrialization (ISI

And February 24, 1966: Dr. Kwame Nkrumah overthrown by military as he was unable to pay salaries.

Ghana would endure military dictatorship for almost 40yrs - 60s, 70s, 80s,90s..until 2002..if you exclude Jerry Rawling last 10yrs as an elected president.

Abohboy:
And how exactly did these private doctors help our economy? Because from what I see they destroyed the currency and till this day haven't helped to heal the wounds caused by their recomendations that's why Sankara banned the IMF when you take a loan from them they add strings to it giving them more power and control on your country and what happens within it and most times out of 10 the atrings attached are detrimental.

You're doing badly. The Boer built universities are not enough for country of 60m people. That is why you have enrollment of 700K - with maybe 200k being foreign students - meaning the average black kid in Limpopo has no hope of going to university

South Africa has 26 public universities with nearly one million students while 700 000 students are registered at the more than 50 higher education training colleges (TVET colleges – Technical vocational education training). An additional 90 000 students can be found at various private institutions. South Africa has seen a major expansion of student enrolment. University enrolment has increased from about 500 000 in 1994. Enrolment at the colleges has increased from around 200 000 in 2000. The vast majority of students are now Africans. This is a dramatic increase – although the number of students in South Africa’s higher education system in relation to the size of its population (55 million) is still far too low compared to other middle-income developing countries. The government plans to increase university enrolment to 1.5 million by 2030.

AfriqueDuZuid:
South Africa has 27

It's not quantity of unis that matters

The movement was regarded as a vehicle for the introduction of African Socialism in the economic development of the young nation.

Cooperative Societies in Kenya – Registered Cooperatives in Kenya
“Kenya boasts about 15,000 registered cooperatives with 12 million members. There are more than 320,000 employees and a further 1.5 million people engaged in small scale and informal enterprise funded by cooperative loans.”

Kenya is ranked number one in Africa and seventh in the world on the strength of savings in excess of kshs400 billion which is 35 per cent of total savings. Savings and credit cooperative societies (Saccos) have Kshs378 billion deposits.

Cooperatives command 45 per cent of Kenya’s gross domestic product (GDP), the highest proportion in percentage points of GDP attributed to cooperatives in the world. New Zealand comes in a distant second at 22 per cent. About 60 per cent of the Kenyan population earn a living from cooperatives. There are 3,280 Saccos, and considered the fastest growing sub—sector in the cooperative movement, this sub-sector is the fastest growing in Africa. It accounts for about 60 per cent, 64 per cent, and 63 per cent of the country’s savings, loan, and assets respectively.

I agree that communism and socialisms are not necessarily bad...and I believe the best systems is the one that picked the best aspect of capitalism and communism...and that is socialiasm...meaning you have private sector running on capitalism....but you have socially minded public sector.

This is what best countries in the world - the scandavians are doing. Almost 50 percent of GDP is socially minded public sector and 50 percent is capitalist market economy driven private sector. The result is an equal prosperous society.

What Nigeria and Africa need is cooperatives - not communism. Many advanced countries like Spain and Italy run very large successfully cooperative movement....in almost any sector....and it achieve the objective of communism without running down the economy. It's voluntary.

A cooperative (also known as co-operative, co-op, or coop) is "an autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through a jointly-owned enterprise".[1] Cooperatives are democratically owned by their members, with each member having one vote in electing the board of directors. Cooperatives may include:

Hueman:
We have to bring up Nigeria because we are discussing which system would help Nigeria. You need to be honest with yourself communism isn’t bad. You are only brainwashed to believe that it is bad.

Let me explain these economics system in a Nigerian way.

Capitalism: Dangote owns and controls his company

Socialism: Dangote workers owns and controls “his” company and can fire him if they feel he is not fit for his job. They get to control their wages and working hours.

Communism: same as socialism except the government, currency, and class does not exist.


In its literal definition does communism sounds like a bad idea? NO. These Marxist system sounds reasonable and are wayyyy better than how Nigeria is ran. This was even how pre colonial Africa was like. We didn’t have things like homelessness or landlords. Everyone worked according to their ability. We need this system more than ever because our government and the capitalist class have continued to sell us out to the west. Capitalism is holding this country back, you forget that the royal Niger company owned us and held our own development back for centuries, that’s what happens when the means of production goes into the hand of private ownership. China, North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam proves that a world outside of capitalism can exist.

Compare North Korea and South Korea.
Nigeria is mess.

Hueman:
Pyongyang North Korea VS Lagos Nigeria

Oga let’s bring this conversation back towards reality.

We need to do a better job electing better leaders. We cannot just pass the buck. You got to take some responsibility.

Hueman:
What do you mean by we. “We” Implies that our government represents the masses. Our government are puppets that works for the interest of western neoliberal capitalism.

You need to complete Karl Marx seminal work Das Kapital and fix the bugs in there. It has been found to breed laziness, multiply poverty and lead to total chaos. Humans are by nature - selfish - and you cannot force them to be equal.

Hueman:
I hope you realize that the government does not exist under communism. lol. The goal of communism is a stateless, classless, and moneyless society. Where workers own the means of production. It’s would benefit Africans a lot cause the government and the rich keep selling us out and holding us back.

I agree. Both IMF and WB and the UN - are due for reforms - by allowing newly rich countries to inject more capital and respond better to global financial crisis. IMF and WB are under US and EU - those are white racist institution thereof. The UN is under a veto of 5 nations.

These institutions have not grown since WW2 to reflect the current realities. All the three are overdue for reforms - and thankfully banks like China, ADB,Asian Dev Bank - etc are stepping up to provide some competition in WB arena. We do not have IMF like institution - a few Arabs nation do bail out fellow Arabs countries...

But I disagree that IMF is largely responsible for mess that our economies find ourselves. We invite IMF by failing to prudently manage our public finances.

Hueman:
So you agree, the IMF is a neo colonial institution meant to make us dependent on our former colonizer.

Of course. It what Ghana, Tanzania and Ethiopia - amongst other - discovered. Socialism is okay - as safety net for the poor - and cooperative movements are great. There is virtue in building a community or cooperating - but it has to be voluntary. You cannot force people to cooperate.

Abohboy:
Communism is bad and can never work

Socialism has a chance at working depending on the severity of it

Nobody want IMF. Not Greece. Not Argentina. Not Nigeria. Not Kenya. IMF are invited when your have mismanaged your country so much it's in a state of collapse.

Never invite IMF - stay away from it. They are like receiver-manager. They are not coming to be nice to your or to develop your country. They are coming to stablize the economy, force your to pay some debt back and give your very painful injections.

When you're under IMF - the last thing you want to think about is development.

China loans DO NOT OPERATE IN SAME SPACE WITH IMF.

China loans compete with World Bank. And Indeed they are better. Compare China loan with WB, ADB and such development banks.

Hueman:
Imagine defending the IMF. Last time I checked the IMF loves privatizing state owned industries when we can’t pay back their ridiculously expensive loans. Why do you think many countries in the global south prefer Chinas Investments over theirs. The IMF literally tried to privatize Nigeria’s water at one point. These neo liberals order the IMF forces on us isn’t even done in western countries. You don’t see them privatizing essential social services like the IMF forces us to do. There are so many data that shows how the IMF is holding many African countries back. While u talk shit on communism we are richer than North Korea will ever be but North Koreans are living longer than us Nigerians.

There is nothing marxist about kenya or Africa socialism. Cooperation or socialism is different from communism or marxism. Kenya for example has Africa leading and seventh world cooperative movement. Any communism that is voluntary is socialism - just like Kenya cooperative movement - where people come together, pull resources together and achieve economies of scale - voluntarily.

Communism is where gov forces everyone to cooperate. It just never works. It breed laziness.

Abohboy:
So now marxism is good?

Mboya and Mwai Kibaki wrote Kenya's Africa Socialism and It application to planning in kenya in 1965 - that led to very high growth rate rivalling Asian tigers and had Kibaki named the Finance Minister of the Year in 70s

http://repository.kippra.or.ke/bitstream/handle/123456789/2345/AFRICAN-SOCIALISM-AND-ITS-APPLICATION-TO-PLANNING-IN-KENYA.pdf?sequence=6&isAllowed=y

Kwame the demagogue could never wash Mboya shoes. Tom Mboya achieved so much and died in his 30s.

Mboya's intelligence, charm, leadership, and oratory skills won him admiration from all over the world.[1] He gave speeches, participated in debates and interviews across the world in favour of Kenya's independence from British colonial rule. He also spoke at several rallies in the goodwill of the civil rights movement in the United States.[4] In 1958, at the age of 28, Mboya was elected Conference Chairman at the All-African Peoples' Conference convened by Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana.[5] He helped build to the Trade Union Movement in Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania, as well as across Africa. He also served as the Africa Representative to the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions (ICFTU). In 1959, Mboya called a conference in Lagos, Nigeria, to form the first All-Africa ICFTU labour organization.[6]

Mboya worked with both John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. to create educational opportunities for African students, an effort that resulted in the Kennedy Airlifts of the 1960s enabling East African students to study at American colleges. Notable beneficiaries of this airlift include Wangari Maathai and Barack Obama Sr. In 1960, Mboya was the first Kenyan to be featured on the front page cover of Time magazine in a painting by Bernard Safran.[7]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO66s4oQuxk&t=425s

Nkrumah the demagogue can never be equal to Tom Mboya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0B60s5NiJw

theInterpreter:
I say that is false
We are not more than 200 million

Population census been rigged since 1960s as the race for who got most oil revenue started.Nigeria real population I believe is 150m or less

kikuyu1:
The Prof has told us Saffa companies don't do well here and more often than not lose their shirts. How many times has he said so? How many times?

Have you seen this news rvp20182?


https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/corporate/companies/south-africa-retail-store-game-exit-kenyan-market-3533512

The kaburu cannot hack Kenya...until the day they recognise Kenya human resource is Africa best.Bring capital..and hire Kenya CEO..give them target and watch them deliver

Just30:
Correction

Ghana's VAT rate is 20%
An additional 7.5% is added for National health insurance, Ghana education trust fund and an emergency levy

ignorance.Levies like those are not VAT.They remain levies

Baboon mode what standard or average vat rate worldwide...around 15 percent

obaaderemi:
You need to improve on your learning ability. Put aside your ego, it's why you are dumb.

There's nothing like worldwide standard for vat rates. Stop displaying your stvpidity on an international forum.
Okay, let me indulge your stupidityy a bit. Take the four countries on this thread for example. Ghana(12.5%)

Nigeria (7.5%)

South Africa (15%)

Kenya(16%)

Arithmetic Average= 12.75%

Can you see you are dumb?
Sweden is doing 25% VAT and it's their own standard.
Sri Lanka is doing 8% and it's okay. Some countries are even doing 0%.

Let talk data. Show me Nigeria Federal revenues. Show me Lagos and 36 state revenues.

Prof Ryan is Kenya - born - and brought up - MIT - educated - brilliant scholar and economist.

Kenya has it's dark history - and unlike Nigeria - we learn from our history, we fix things and we become better.

We do not bury our head in the sands - or let wounds fester like Nigeria.

obaaderemi:
Lagos revenue alone is like half of the total revenue of Rwanda. Stop grasping at straws.
I don't care whether the white settler is Kenyan or not, you don't need to throw him up because you feel your fellow black Kenyan McDonald can not match Dr Yemi kale.
So Ryan was there in the 90s when a 28 year old indian- Oh lawd, Indian again!- was duping Kenya of a tenth of its GDP? And he didn't feel the need to resign or blow the whistle? You are dumb for thinking this white man is the best brain you got. You need to apologize to the McDonald man.

Good - now stop Chinese smuggling 10B dollars worth of gold annually. Kenya has no platinum. Kenya has titanium - which is basically sand

Just30:
Ghana already has several gold refineries

And the is currently and 3rd and 4th gold refinery under construction at 90% completion.

when will Kenya start making use of it platinum?

No nigerian contractor will ever be allowed in Kenya. Dangote cannot make it in kenya. The same with Nigerian banks. Please ask South Africans.

You so called northern businessmen are just corrupt cronies using Abuja to profit from Nigeria.

It very simple - they get favourable rates from central bank of nigeria - they also use abuja to block imports - and then they create monopolies.

It cannot work in a very liberalized market like Kenya. Continue being enslaved by northern nigeria conmen like Dangote and Rabiu.

obaaderemi:
How's this your business? At least that place looks better than Kenya's slums.
Concrete roads are very durable and the way to go.

We may construct some for you like we did with rcc.

Is that all you saw in my response. You did not see an alleged 500B economy collecting Rwanda like revenues. Prof Terry Ryan is a kenyan. And more importantly a brilliant kenya who has nurtured many kenya having headed University of Nairobi Economics dept for many years before essentially becoming the gov chief economist from 1982 till recently. He is an A grade brain. Kenya policy wonks are Africa best.

obaaderemi:
Is this why you threw McDonald's man under the bus because he was inferior to that white settler who has been ripping Kenya off for years?

I can see you are trying to introduce another line of argument. You are incompetent like your white settler economist and his stooge McDonald.

obaaderemi:
Even if exchanges at #1000 to the dollar, it can not happen.
Access just keeps getting bigger.

It's not organic growth..it a merger they did with diamond bank...unless they plan to do mergers it has no momentum to stop Equity Bank who have hit a jackpot in regional expansion And have a proven banking model for retail banking at bottom of the pyramid.At least Zenith growth is organic

obaaderemi:
That's all.

Not for long.. their census will tell us if the growth is from more people or like Kenya they are transitioning.I think the gap now is so small..