₦airaland Forum

MelesZenawi:
Rather you are the one crying over here and fabricating words I didn't even use which is exactly what you guys are known for... fabricators.

The damage is done, cry me a river.

MelesZenawi:
He is quiet maybe because he doesn't see the need to engage Bini guys in their fabrications.

All these your fake support for Redbonesmith will not repair the incalculable damage you have done to his Igboness. You were the one that called him Igala efulefu wannabe Igbo.

NeverBrokeAgainG:
then why are you trying hard to psychologically blackmail Redbonesmith into believing he is not Igbo?

see no Inch of an Igbo speaking communty will be ceded to you inconsequential minorities.

you guys should better go be Useful to yourselves and stop wasting your time trying to divide the Igbo Nation

Can you psychologically blackmail someone to start believing what he is not? If Redbonesmith is real Igbo, why would anyone be able to blackmail him to believe he is not.

I wasn't the one that questioned Redbonesmith Igboness, it was MelesZenawi that questioned his Igboness on the account of his roots or should I say on the account of Redbonesmith saying some of his village people claims Igala ancestry. Go back and read for better understanding before you make your comments. Are you saying Redbonesmith can't defend himself.

MelesZenawi:
and Redbonesmith was deceiving us all these while

MelesZenawi:
And you now want us to believe that the town is Igbo after this overwhelming evidence.


You aren't sincere with ndigbo here.

NeverBrokeAgainG:
and the Funny thing is that you are a Bini Man

What difference does it make, the real Igbos came out to exposed those we initially thought were Igbos as non Igbo. You still expect us to see them as Igbo? These guys hide under Igbo to insults Benin and the Benin retaliates by insisting Igbo not knowing that these cowards are hiding their real tribes from Benin retaliation. The Igbo guy have now come out to let us know that some of these guys are not what they say they are. Is it okay for a Fulani to be masquerading as Igbo to be insulting Benin.

It's the God of Benin that is exposing them.

MelesZenawi:
Redbonesmith is a full fledged Igbo man...ezigbo nwafo Igbo.

If it is within my power I would have given him the title "Ogbata Onua 1" in igboland.

How would a Fulani know who is full fledged Igbo and who is not. To the average Fulani, everyone after Ore is Igbo.

You tried, to have been able to deceive Nairalanders for this long that you were Igbo. The real Igbos have now come out to reject you and claim you are Fulani. You have been exposed, so stop playing games. Stop hiding under Igbo to be insulting Benin, be proud of your Fulani heritage. You Hausas, Fulani and middle belt guys around here should stop hiding under Igbo to be insulting others.

It's funny that after you exposed the Igala guy as efulefu, you were also exposed as Fulani by the real Igbo, what goes around, comes around.

RedboneSmith:
Udene ga-eli anu gi for saying I was beginning to be accepted as anything, when all I was doing was clarifying my stance.

Someone is Igbo if he is Igbo, period. It is not something you beg for and are given to by anyone.

You should be ashamed of yourself that you have to beg and explain your Igboness to a Fulani guy called MelesZenawi because he called you an efulefu.

A real and true Igbo will never explain himself or his Igboness to anyone let alone a Fulani. You even went as far as to accused your fellow villagers as the ones that claim Igala ancestry but that they have now been assimilated and converted to Igbo. You are so desperate to be Igbo that you were ready to throw your village people under the bus.

The very fact that you are trying too hard to be Igbo and deny your Igala roots shows how inferior minded you are. If you know you were true Igbo, you would have simply laughed off your Fulani accuser but because you know you are not, you started explaining yourself. The real Igbos know themselves, writing insults in Igbo language will not fool them. The real Igbos are not fooled by You and the other Fulani imposter. They can smell your agendas from afar.

gregyboy:
Beware an hausa man parading as igbo

The deception from that guy, MelesZenawi stinks to high heavens. If you see how he carpet and demolished the other Anioma wannabe for saying his village was partly founded by Igala migrants.

The Anioma wannabe started begging to be accepted as Igbo not knowing that the pretender himself is not even Igbo but a fly pretending to be a bird.

The authentic Igbo that rejected him said he is from vampire ethnic group he is not just a school dropout but also an Igbo reject. These demented lowlifes that don't know where they belong always want to use Benin history to shine.

MelesZenawi:
and Redbonesmith was deceiving us all these while

MelesZenawi:
And you now want us to believe that the town is Igbo after this overwhelming evidence.


You aren't sincere with ndigbo here.

RedboneSmith:
Why is this hard to understand na. We are Igbo. We are not Igala. Some of us have Igala ancestry. They've been assimilated and are fully Igbo. I mentioned Nsukka to serve as an illustration for the Illah situtation, because a similar thing played out in their history, where some Igala people moved south and are now fully Igbonised. Not Igala anymore.

This has been my position on my people from the get-go, but for some reason not really clear to me, some of you take it to mean that I am neither here nor there, part-Igala and part-Igbo leading to really unneccesary and frustrating fights.

Hian.

MelesZenawi:
Lol...

Can you Imagine such Insult? Some who abandoned his medical studies to liberate his people is what he termed "Weird"...


This is Unprecedented.

You are a total waste of time, go and look for your kinds that abandons their education to be liberating their fictional people behind the computer keyboard.

I don't argue with dropouts or those that abandons their education.

MelesZenawi:
When birds are invited to a meeting, grasshoppers go too, to lay claim that they are birds...


Or have you seen Chameleon in midst of frogs making mouth that he can live in water..


Look for other grasshoppers to entertain with that trash not the eagles...no time for nonsense.

Who is this again? The dropout that was so proud that he dropout of school and announced it to the world. I don't have time for self acclaimed dropouts. Total waste of my time. Your fellow Igbos described you as dull and you have confirmed it that you have nothing in your brain. Go look for your mate to play with.

Zik and Obi of Onitsha are full fledged Benin. Zik said so himself. Nearly half of the communities in Igbo land claims Benin ancestry why the other half claimed Igala.

gregyboy:
This further explains that the Yoruba borrowed the idok ogun from benins

The word for iron in Yoruba is agbede not ogun

Samuk, etinosa, Valirex, Areafada2, nocomment2

They are exposing themselves gradually. You catch am

These Biafra fanatics just write anything to rubbish Benin for the past brutalities they think their people suffered from imperial Benin.

They hardly support any of their positions with historical references, debating or arguing with them is just for fun, they can't be taken seriously.

They and their Yoruba allies who are on the same vendetta mission against Benin history can't provide any evidence to back up their Benin Oduduwa relationship beyond/earlier than 1800s

They can't point to any specific Yoruba monarch that was addressed as Oba before 1824 when the Yoruba was first visited by the Europeans.

Yoruba used the title Oba in general terms until the 1900s when they begin to attached it to their various traditional titles such as the Ooni, Awujale, Alaafin, etc. Whilst we are on the subject, the Igbos and Yorubas should please provide us evidence when the Alaafin and Ooni were first specifically addressed as Oba or when the title Oba specifically appeared alongside their traditional titles.

It's a waste of time debating with those who have an agenda of vendetta, their minds are already made up to believe whatever they want to believe, evidence or not.

pazienza:
If a stranger you know nothing about wake up one day and start claiming to be your brother, when you know deep inside you that he isn't, as he doesn't even speak your language.

You should be upright enough to recognize they are suffering from mental issue and not try and take advantage of that to start cooking up irrational stories.

Two people cannot be getting mad at same time.

Those are our people who have mental issues. We are trying to see how to get them back to their senses, the last thing we need are Edoids trying to take advantage of their situation to worsen the issues. Why have you chosen to fuel their mental issues by claiming them even when you know deep inside they are not Edoids?

guy the emotion is real and raw, are you trying to be funny or you are for real. How can you sincerely tag entire communities across the south east, south south and middle belt with their kings mad because they claim to have Edo heritage, Nna, this is too much. Even if all these people drink from the same madness contaminated water source, it worth be this effective.

Edo/Benin is like a very wealthy man who had numerous children running into hundreds of thousands in the past and some of the descendants of this man are now retracing their roots.

If you know your father had many children in the past and you don't know them all, it makes sense not to tag anyone that shows up at the family house claiming he is your brother, stranger.

Whilst you guys are trying to expand and build your Igbo Biafra empire/kingdom, the question should have been what is it about Benin that still make people to want to claim it over 100 years after the empire/kingdom ended. Tagging all these people as mad will not help.

pazienza:
It States clearly that he wasn't an Edo. He was IBO as his name suggests.

Obi Chukwumalieze1, sitting under the watchful gaze of his grand-father, Obi Okobi, whose majestic influence beamed down from a framed photograph hanging on the wall just above the royal chair, noted that the multiple gifts and talents of Chima, as hunter, blacksmith, brave warrior and sorcerer, had assisted Oba Eweka tremendously in staving off aggressions from neighbours like Dahomey, Songhai and even Ghana and elevated him to the position of a highly respected Chief in the Benin royal palace. “As you know very well, Chima is an Ibo name and the Ibo race is famous for its migratory spirit, especially in search of greener pastures; so there is a connection between him and Arochukwu. He was also a very industrious young man, a farmer, hunter, blacksmith and also a Native Doctor and used his skills to assist Oba Eweka, who in turn appreciated his efforts and elevated him to the position of a very high Palace chief in the kingdom

Its common sense really. No Bini Prince ever bore Ezechima or Igbo names.

Like you yourself said earlier there are numerous accounts and probably there are still more reversed versions yet unwritten.

None of these claims and counter narratives borders the average Edo person. Haven't said that, present day Edo people don't have the authority to deny anyone their Edo heritage irrespective of were they may be resident in the world. Edo don't have a comprehensive list of Edo indigines across the world.

The average Edo person is in Edo state minding his business and people in far away, Owerre, Oguta, Onitsha, Ikwerre, ahoada, Kogi, Benue, people across south south, south east, west and middle belt are all coming out without being forced to claim their Edo heritage, what are we supposed to do?

It seems your anger with people like myself is our acknowledgement of these people, I or anyone else doesn't have the authority to deny these people their history. Igbo seems to want to forcibly claim people, Edo don't go looking for people, our people are the ones looking for us. Like they say every child will some day finds his way back home.

Nna be fair for once, it won't hurt, what do you expect Edo people to do, reject their people? It may not necessarily be good news for Igbo Biafra expansionist agenda but try and be objective for once.

pazienza:
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/09/excitement-anticipation-onicha-ugbo-gears-historic-ine-new-yam-festival-2/

Read and learn.

Bini imperialist fought Ezechima tooth and nail, causing the people to flee helter skelter. Oke n'ofia, Nkwere n'onu , according to Obi Onicha Ugbo.
The Onicha that ran to Ugbo became Onicha Ugbo, those that ran to the bush and organized a guerilla against terrorist Bini army were called the Onicha Onucha olomina( Onicha that fought and went to the bush to hide) aka Onicha Olona, and lastly, some Onicha ran and crossed the River Niger and were welcomed by the Obosis(Idemili), they were called Onicha Mili, aka Onitsha you know today in Anambra.

The story of Ezechima is the story of Bini terrorism on the people. And their desire to survive such attack. Any Ezechima claiming Edo origin is suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
I don't waste time to tell them that even to their faces.

Where did this Onitsha Ugbo's account defers or contradict Zik's grandmother story of Ezechime, it doesn't, in fact it supports Zik's grandmother's position, she never said Ezechime left Benin in peace, Zik autobiography agree that Ezechime left Benin in time of tribulations fearing for his life. Were is the contradiction.

If you and your brother fight and you run for your life, does that deny you your heritage.

pazienza:
Nope. They are not saying it in unison. There are many versions of the story and I just shared one which is in tandem with what we know in SE.
And the story i shared was by an Eze from the eldest Ezechima clan called Onicha Ugbo, from where Onitsha people migrated from.
And you can see obviously that it is not an Edoid story.

You just don't want to accept it, even when it is the most rational story out there, because it doesn't help you expansionist agenda.

Ndo.

Expansionist? you are funny, were are we expanding to. Been there, done that, others can carry on from where Benin stopped. I will be the first to tell you that the Benin empire ended in 1897. Every great empire/kingdom rise, fall and are confined to the history books, Benin is not an exception. What we don't want is envious people like yourself trying to rewrite and distort our history.

Historical achievements of Benin is beyond you to judge. It's open to the wider world.

Fortunately and thanks to early Europeans visitors, Benin history is watertight and cast in stone since the 1400s, it's protected from morden days revisionist and expansionist like yourself.

The floor and space is open for you guys to create and make history just the way Benin did in the past. Trying to steal Benin Obas and claiming them as Yoruba won't work.

pazienza:
Bini was a mushroom kingdom that Agbor was walloping until you met Portuguese who supplied you with firearms with which you terrorized and brought neighboring Eastern Yoruba and Western Igbo under your control.
There was nothing spectacular about Bini. You just had monopoly of European firearms that your neighbours lacked.

Oba is the Yoruba word for King from Ondo to Ilorin.
Edoid word for King is Ovie/Ogie/Ojie. It doesn't take much for a rational person to see that Oba is a Yoruba imprint on Edo people of Bini.
Amongst the Edoids in Delta, Isoko and Urhobo. Oba makes no meaning, but Ovie is a real cognate for Ogie/Ojie and stands for King.

Early Kings of Igododmigodo before the Yoruba established the Obaship there went by the title of Ogie-so. Proper edoid word for King.

Whatever you say is your entitled opinion. The fact remains that Benin eyewitness written history is probably the oldest and hardest to rewrite. Whatever you write, ends here on nairaland unless there are historical authorities to back up your claim, besides the people themselves disagree with your position. Unlike you, all I have said is inline with the people I am quoting. This is the difference between the two of us. The people of ISSELE-UKU, their Obi and Zik all agree with my position, this is what counts.

pazienza:
Bini is an Edoid ethnic group.
Within the Edo are other related groups like the Esan, etc.

Benin empire was multiethnic and had other ethnic groups who considered themselves Benin people even though they were not Edoid. Just because the Oba Bini influence covered their towns and villages.

Exactly my point. All Igbo speaking groups that left Benin empire, including Ezechima were Benin subjects but they were not Edo people. They are Benin by nationality because their hometown was under Benin empire influence, but they were not Edoid.
If we understand the above, we would understand why Ezechima was not an Edo even though he was Benin by the virtue of living under the power of Benin empire.

Tell your brother Samuk that they are no Edoid people in Umuezechima. They were and remain Igboid.

I am not the one saying Ezechime and umuezechime are Edo, they are the one saying so themselves, I have no such authority to proclaim these people Edo just like I have no authority to deny them being Edo if they claim that is what they were or are. I wasn't alive when Ezechime left Benin, I can only rely on what his prominent descendants such as the Obi of ISSELE-UKU and Zik said. I am unlike you that pretend to know people's history more than them and their king.

Etinosa1234:
Samuk , to further prove that pazienza doesn't read what he posts or knows what he's writing,... See the attached below.. from the wise pazienza himself

https://www.nairaland.com/3549333/23-year-old-obi-nduka/65#98320838

I think the dude is trying to start unnecessary controversy and diverts the debate, I will be surprised that he is actually as ignorant as he is portraying.

In his logic, the Yorubas conquered and ruled over Benin, yet the Yoruba had no Oba in history comparable in military, political strength or otherwise to the Oba of Benin. Can you give what you don't have?

The Yoruba ruled over Benin yet there is hardly any part of Yoruba land from Lagos to eastern Yoruba that didn't feel the impact and influence of Benin.

Like I said before, I think the guy is playing games with the Oba of Benin being Yoruba. He can't be that ignorant. Benin history has been written since the 1400s by early European visitors while Yoruba hinterland wasn't visited till 1824 and there is nothing in the over 600 years Benin history that says the Oba of Benin is Yoruba.

If the guys is really that ignorant to know that Benin history can't to forge, reverse and rewritten like others, then I was mistaken about him and have been wasting my time.

pazienza:
Ancient Bini was a cosmopolitan society with delicate balance of power. The monarchy was of Yoruba origin and it was indeed said that in time past, Yoruba was the language of Bini royal Court.
The Yoruba rulers were not interested in promoting the Edoid language of the subdued Edoid aboriginals, so every one maintained their own language.
It is only recently that the Anti Yoruba sentiment in Bini is at a crescendo with the Yoruba Obas trying to run away from their Yoruba ancestry like the German ruling royal family are trying to run away from their German ancestry post WW1 and WW2, that Bini language promotion throughout the kingdom started. And in deed, Bini people have been squeezing the Igbanke and Olodiama people so hard to drop their Igboid and Izon language and names recently. Likewise Usen people who give their people Yoruba names and speak Yoruba are frowned upon by Bini palace.

Bottomline was that Bini empire had a delicate balance of power between the multiethnic entities there, the Edoid aboriginals were never in position to force their language on others, this is why the likes of Ezechima retained their Igbo language and name and why Igbanke still does same today.

Stop displaying your ignorance of Benin history publicly, you have done this consistently throughout the debate, you have tried to claim to know more than the owners of their history.

You claimed the Benin monarch is Yoruba in origin and Yoruba was the official language of the Palace but some how all the Obas till date have Benin names. When it suits you, you argue that because Ezechime doesn't sound Benin he couldn't have been Benin despite agreeing that he left Benin to the east but all Oba of Benin with Benin names are Yorubas according to your inconsistent logic.

Like I said before, you can't claim to know people history more than them, it's delusion.

You can't claim to know Zik's history more than Zik and his grandmother.

You can't claim to know the history of ISSELE-UKU more than the Obi of ISSELE-UKU and his people.

You can't claim or pretend to know Benin history more than the Oba of Benin and his people. It's simply delusion to try to write people's history. Benin history especially is well established and very little oral distortion. I am sure you can't point to where the Oba of Benin claim Yoruba ancestry, but you keep repeating it like you are an authority on the subject.

You have not finished exploring Igbo written history that is hardly older or earlier than the 1700s, you want to dabble ignorantly into Benin history.

Trying to tell other people their history is pretentious and delusional.

You simply don't understand that I can't tell you your history just the way you can't tell me or anyone else their history.

I have no authority over your history just the way you have no authority over anyone else's history. If the Obi of ISSELE-UKU claim Igbo ancestry, it's not in my position to question it likewise it's shouldn't be in your position to question the Obi's Benin ancestry.

pazienza:
Nope, not all that were Igbo were of Igbo ancestry. But the catch here is that the migrants in our midst are so insignificant in number that they were quickly assimilated and acculturated by their Igbo hosts.
While in Bini, the non Edoids there numerically superior and their culture so strong, that they all retained their distinct languages and cultures. Yoruba for Usen, Igbo for Igbanke, Izon for Olodiama.

Many of you expansionist Edo claim that because insignificant Edo and Igala refugees were absorbed by Igbo speaking ancestors of Anioma, that Anioma shouldn't be Igbo again, but should rather become a hybrid.
But your Bini not only assimilated Igbo, Ijaw, Yoruba and Igala people as well, many pockets of these groups were not well assimilated as they retained their individual distinct languages within your Edo enclave.
Yet you don't think this is enough reason for Bini to cease being Bini and become a hybrid instead, do you?

You are wrong again. Ancient Benin encouraged everyone to stick to their identity and dialects. There is a saying in Benin that the Ika, Udo etc speakers should be allowed to speak their dialect to retain their distinctive identity and preserve these dialects within the Edo family. If the ancient Obas of Benin had decreed that everyone speak Benin, numerous dialects would have long gone into extinction, including those you are now claiming as Igbos against their will.

pazienza:
Artificial creation= made up of many distinct groups who still hold firmly unto their individual distinct ethnicity and language.

The Igbanke will not give up their Igboid language despite Years of sustained pressure at assimilating them by the Edos.

The Ijaws will not give up their own identity too, despite Oba pressure.

The Usen retains their Yoroboid language and the local chief on Usen is called "Elawure", a clearly Yoruba title.

The Yoruboid Oba Bini is doing all possible to hold unto power by denying his Yoruba origin, but the Edo aboriginals represented by the Ogiamien will not have non of it.

All these chaos just in one senatorial zone of 5 LGAs with a population of less than 5 million.

Yet you are more concerned about Western Igbo land than your own issues.

You are the one more concerned about Ika, this thread was created because the ISSELE-UKU people and their king are holding strong to their Benin heritage. You are the one trying to be more Ika and Delta than the Obi of ISSELE-UKU.

pazienza:
Igbo is 30million big. Its only Normal that groups at the periphery who feel left behind want a level of independence.
Bini is just one senatorial zone. Lol! Yet the Ogiamen want your Yoruba rulers sent back to Ile ife where they came from and to leave them alone.

30 million big is the more reason it's artificial. The 30 million comprises of various people with varying allegiances with Benin, Igala etc. Who are the real Igbos without admixture of blood?

pazienza:
Bini is an artificial creation.

Bini is made up of Edoid tribes ( Igodomigodo), the Yoruba rulers ( Oba Bini), Igboid tribes( Igbanke, Owariuzo and many others that have been assimilated totally), Yoruba commoners( in Usen and environment), the Igala elements, and finally, the Ijaws ( in Olodiama) who probably served as porters for the empire marine adventures.
And all these groups still have pockets of them well represented in Edo state till today and retained their distinct languages.

Where is the lie in my stating of the fact that Bini was multiethnic entity?

Igbo is the artificial creation with numerous groups such as Anioma, Ikwerre etc, kicking and screaming to be excluded.

Your most prominent leader that ever lived Ezechime only left Benin in the 1700s.

Your most prominent political leader in modern times, Zik claimed Benin ancestry.

Most of your prominent traditional leaders claim Benin ancestry.

You most prominent town, Onitsha claim Benin ancestry.

Etinosa1234:
At bolded, u are talking nonsense...

Benin has been dated to have existed since the BC times... There is no valid proof abt which tribe is older so I don't indulge in such convo. Only arrogant and ignorant people do such...

And also,the fact that u think that our oba did not originate from Benin(which is not true) and it makes Benin an artificial tribe is very false and shallow reasoning..

History is filled with kings who didn't originate from their territory

For example, The Queen of England didn't originate from England , did that make English an artificial tribe

U are beginning to let emotions into ur arguments. .hence the tears filled lie's

I actually allowed these parts of his claims to slide because I saw them as a diversionary tactics, I just wanted to concentrate on Ezechime who happened to be the most prominent Igbo leader that ever lived who only left Benin in the 1700s with Benin written all over him.

Imagine someone whose Igbo didn't exist in the 1700s calling Benin artificial.

pazienza:
1. Who are the ancestors of the Igboid speakers still in Edo today known as Igbanke?
Some questions are meaningless. Ezechima was an Igbo man living in the vicinity of Bini like some Igbos still do till today.

2. According to Onicha Ugbo account, Ezechima became rich in Bini empire and attracted the envy of the Bini royalty. He was likely the leader of his Igbo group living in Bini empire.

3. Offor is a clan thing in Igboland, every clan have their Offor or Owhor, depending on your dialect.
Offor umuezechima only concerns umezechima. For example, Ogwashiuku and Asaba are not part of Umu ezechima and so have their own individual offor. Ofor of any clan in Igboland is held by the eldest male of the head village. Ndiigbo practice a form of gerontocracy called Okpalaukwu or Okpalabisi system. The Okpara (oldest male) holds the clan offor. It's same even in Ikwerre or Anioma.

4. I don't understand what you mean by this. Umuezechima infused their knowledge of Bini monarchy into their traditional Okpalabisi Igbo gerontocracy to create a new system of government different from those of us who never had contact with Bini.
Obi onitsha is only powerful because Onitsha his hometown is the business headquarters of Igboland. Eze Nri was the most powerful Eze in the East pre colonial time and he was only but a Priest king.
Igbos practice mainly offor system of government where the oldest male (Okpalaukwu) serve as titular clan head.

5. Ezechima was an Igbobman and every Igbo man must have an offo he must pass to his descendants. Its like a symbol of his and his clan authority.
Usually passed to first son. There is only a tussle for Ezechima offor because it was said that his first son was said to have died before him, throwing the position open for all other sons to claim.
You are obviously Edo so I don't expect you to understand the way of the Igbo.

It's not true that Benin don't have something similar to Igbo Offor, in Benin, it's called Ukhure. The Offor/Ukhure practice may have attained slight variation as it move down east.

Ukhure is passed down every family through the first son. All established Benin families have an ancestral house which houses the family ancestral altar where the Ukhure are kept.

At the death of every senior son, a new Ukhure is made and added to the others which are inherited by the most senior son, this is how Benin families kept track of their ancestors.

Each Ukhure represents a departed ancestor. This is another evidence to support the claim that Ezechime with offor which is similar to Benin Ukhure was Benin nobility.

pazienza:
The above is Ezi account of Ezechima story.
Ezi is one of the towns in Umuezechima.

Each Ezechima clan have their own story of Ezechima.
And many of them are conflicting because they are dragging the "offor" Ezechima that confers seniority in Igboland, among themselves.

Going by your logic of reverse migration of Ezechime back to the east,

1. Who was Ezechime before he went to Benin?

2. Was he an Igbo king or he acquired his kingship after leaving Benin.

3. If the offor confers seniority in Igbo land, did this practice started with Ezechime and if not what happened to the senior elders/kings Ezechime met when he returned back to the east, did they simply relinquish their positions and seniority to Ezechime and his descendants?

4. Why are the descendants of Ezechime whom you claimed returned back from Benin more prominent than other Igbo kings?

5. Did Ezechime had offor whilst in Benin or did he take an offor to Benin or acquired one after leaving Benin and from whom.

You see why Igbo modern day revisionist and rewriting of Ezechime history doesn't make sense.

pazienza:
Eze Chima and Ezechime are used interchangeably and non of them are Bini.

Of course, any one can pick any random foreign name to bear. Zik gave his son a Yoruba name. But we know that Zik first son mother tongue is not Yoruba.
Ezechima bore Igbo name and spoke Igbo language, his ethnicity was never in doubt. Your analogy of Igbo name is flawed because you failed to factor in the mother tongue factor.
An Igbo man who bears Anthony will never speak English as mother tongue. Jonathan good luck speaks Ogbia and his town is named in Ogbia language. Ezechima bore Igbo name and all the towns his children established were named in Igbo and continue to speak Igbo until this day.

Not all monarchs in Delta agree Ezechima was a Bini prince, even within Umuezechima, some towns believe he came from within western Igbo and British colonial report believed he came from a now defunct town between Igbodo and Onicha Ugbo. Agbor people believed Ezechima migrated from Agbor and was chased out of Agbor when he tried to Usurp Eze Agbor. This event is renacted in the Osiezi festival in Agbor.
No Bini Prince ever bore Ezechima and oral stories can be distorted and embellished. For example, the Olukumi in Anioma told the British colonial report that they migrated out of Bini when Attah Igala was the king of Bini. But we all know at no point was Attah Igala the king of Igala, and the British colonial report noted that the oral story was flawed.

He never lied about his heritage. He only recanted a story his grandmother told him. That doesn't make the story true.
A child growing up in Nigeria was told that India was banned from world cup because they used juju to win people. We were all told stories of how India won Nigeria 99-0 in a football match using juju. Our parents all believed this event happened and we grew up believing it happened. If there was no civilization, this myth will be passed from generation to another as the truth. Oral stories are only as useful if they pass rationality test.

America is not a native land. America belongs to Amerindian tribes, so your analogy is flawed. Igbo is an indigenous ethnicity united by an indigenous unique language not spoken anywhere else outside Igbo land.
Zik remains an Igbo and lived as an Igbo all his life. Likewise his people.

Igbo is older than Bini. In Anioma, we have towns named with Igbo. Akwukwu-Igbo, Igbo-uzo, etc.
Bini is the artificial creation made up of native edoid tribes ruled by a Yoruba king with Yoruba title called Oba, as against Edo title of Ogie/Ojie/Ovie.

Even as we speak today, we have native Igboid speakers (Igbanke), native Ijaws(Olodiama), native Yorubas( Usen) and even Igala elements, all as part of Bini. And they all speak and maintain their distinct languages.
Despite centuries of Bini imperialism in these parts, they retained their distinction from Bini.
So yes! Bini is an artificial heterogeneous entity made up of people of diverse origins who retained their distinct languages. Whereas Igbos are one people united by one language, with few Edo, Igala, Yoruba migrants who were immediately disarmed and assimilated as Igbo speakers by their Igbo hosts, except in case of Oza nogogo.

Anioma and Ikwerre can claim whatever they like, but like our people say, when a person buries himself,one of his hands stick out as evidence.
Their native Igboid languages will always stick out against them.

It is well established that Igbo speakers lived in Bini in the past and they got there from Igbo land. Their remnants are still found in Edo state today and they still speak Igbo language and bear Igbo names.

The summary of your epistle is that Zik and his grandmother didn't know what they were talking about and you and others know more about Zik's heritage than Zik, what more is there to say?. One thing that remains indisputable is that Zik autobiography will continue to remain a reference point to his heritage irrespective of what anyone else's says.

Zik's said his forebears were Benin, you say they are not, I go with Zik because strangers can't tell you who your forefathers were.

It's left for the Benins to tell their history just as it's up to Zik, Anioma and Ikwerre to say who they are, whatever a stranger says doesn't count.

If you identify as Igbo, my contrary view about your heritage becomes irrelevant. If the Benins identify their Oba as Benin and the Oba of Lagos identify himself as someone with Benin heritage, any contrary view heard by someone else is irrelevant. This universally applies to everyone.

pazienza:
Goodluck has a native name , ie Ebelemi. Goodluck is only a name he took from a colonial language. He and Ogbia people don't speak English as first language.
Ezechima and his people were and are Igbo speakers as first language and mother tongue and all bear Igbo names. Your argument is flawed .

Zik merely told a story his Grandmother told him, which is that they came from Bini, and not that they were Bini. Bini was a multi ethnic empire comprising of Igbo, Yoruba, Ijaw, Esan and then Bini people.
Ezechima migrated from Bini, but he obviously was not Bini. And up till today, we have native Igbo speaking groups in Edo state within Bini kingdom. The Igbanke and other small towns like Owariuzo. They are the remnant of Igbo speaking people who were part of Bini.

Zik lived and died Igbo and his Onitsha people remain Igbo.

Here is Obi Achebe speaking on Igbo unity:https://www.google.com/amp/s/businessday

1. The name is Ezechime not Ezechima.

2. Why assume you know the Good luck Jonathan I was referring to. I repeat, not everyone by the name Good luck Jonathan is an English man, not everyone by the name Anthony Jones is an English man just as not every Ngozi is an Igbo by heritage.

The point here is to debunk your argument that names determines someone's heritage.

All notable monarchs and people from Delta to Anambra that claim descent from Ezechime all agree he was a Benin prince. Whatever the Igbos are writing today is nothing but attempt to rewrite history.

Nnamdi Azikiwe had no reason to lie about his heritage at old age and retirement, it doesn't make sense.

Nobody can claim to know Zik's heritage more than Zik and his grandmother.

Zik was an Igbo with Benin blood or heritage just as Obama is an American with African blood or heritage.

You can't claim that there are indigenous Igbo in Benin because Igbo is a recent political coinage. There are various communities in the east that claim Benin ancestry and like their Igala counterparts in the east, no amount of detergent or bleach can remove the Benin or Igala blood in their veins.

Igbo is a recent coinage. Igbo like Anioma was coined to bring different people/tribes whose language may not necessarily be mutually intelligible together. Someone classified as Igbo today may not necessarily have been Igbo in the past. What makes someone an Igbo? You can't claim Anioma and Ikwerre to be Igbo without the people seeing themselves as Igbo. You can't shave someone's head in his absence.

Anioma are Ika and majority don't see themselves as Igbo except for the recent migrant from the east. The average Ikwerre don't also see themselves as Igbo.

There is no evidence that Ezechime migrated into Benin from Igbo land because the word Igbo didn't even exist in his time. What is undisputed is that he left Benin for the east.

pazienza:
But wait o! What does it benefit an Edo man to claim kinship with an Nkechi, Nneka, Ndidi in Anioma when he can't even pronounce those names?
Ask him to pronounce it and he says Ikechi, Ineka, Ididi.

Are you lots not embarrassed?

The fact that someone goes by the name Good luck Jonathan doesn't makes him an English man. Not all ngozi are Igbo by ancestry.

I should ask you the same question. What was it that Zik intended to benefit by forging his ancestral heritage at retirement and old age? It make political sense to have gravitated more towards Igbo for their population when he was still politically active and tell his true history at retirement when there was nothing to gain or lose. You could say he used the Igbo population to succeed and feathered his political nest . He basically eat his cake and had it.

What you claimed Zik said in 1949 was political statement, what he wrote in 1970 was historical account, they are different.

pazienza:
No history ever said Onitsha were Bini people, Zik was not a historian and all his life, he lived as an Igbo. Migrating from Bini doesn't translate to being Bini.

Asaba trace her origin to Nteje in Anambra state.
Asaba founder is Nnebisi, an Igbo man. If I ask you to pronounce the name now, with your Edo tongue, you would probably say "Inebisi" ,yet you want to claim Nnebisi because you suffer from minority complex, you recruiting Igbos to swell your minority number.

Zik's grandmother claimed Ezechime was of Benin royal blood, no one can be more Benin than that.

Your Nnebisi founder of Asaba is an Igbo revisionist story. The earliest eyewitness history of Asaba is dated 1875, Asaba was still a Benin town with the people still using phrases from the Benin language, Igbo came in later. When was your Nnebisi story concocted? I heard this your Nnebisi story from that Igala wannabe Anioma guy before but he couldn't backed it up with written historical evidence earlier that my 1875 evidence. I challenge you to also provide your evidence to back your claim.

Ofunwa111:
PS: Why do you people keep on bringing up Zik's autobiography written in the 1970s, but when I bring up a historical essay that the same Zik wrote earlier in the 1930s which appears to contradict what he wrote in the '70s, you people keep mute or ignore. I thought you were a great proponent of the theory that earlier documents are always more authentic than later ones?

Where is Zik's 1930 article you claimed contradicts his 1970 autobiography?

Are you aware that the Obi of Onitsha title/name, Agboghidi is a Benin word. Agboghidi was from Ugo in Orhionwon local government area of Edo state. Onitsha Udo shrine also has a Benin word. Udo is a town in Edo state. The name is actually Ezechime not Ezechima which sounds more Igbo. Some historians actually argued that the name was Ikhime which the Igbos pronounced Chime. The Eze was attached by Igbos he encountered on his way eastward because of his Benin nobility, the Igbos he encountered described his royal status in their own language just the way the Benin in the past described European kings in the Benin language as Oba ebo or Ogie ebo.