₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
(4) Can you bring forward any ancient Benin sculpture whose realism & naturalism comes (even remotely) close to that of the two ancient Ife sculptures below ??
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12769978_675abba9d9564c2a9dccbada6660916f_jpeg_jpeg27a46c1bc047f1e86dc445535a6a98d9
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12769979_5ae1b03b628943719aad9fbe9e13c73b_jpeg_jpega3d9f3de8494386a47ac23021a7e81b9

Cc: Ideadoctor, Pa3cia, scholes0, DenreleDave, gomojam, SaintBeehot, TheLionofLasigi, reallest, babtoundey, Balogunodua, Newton85, sesan85, yanabasee, Pierocash, othermen, Abohboy, Ofunwa111, Juliusmalema, Obalatule, Afam4eva

I was expecting a catalogue of Yoruba historical achievements and accomplishments only to see one excavated clay and bronze head which no one is sure who made them.

I do honestly empathize with you, if I were a Yoruba, how would I feel when the Benin start their eyewitness written historical accounts in the 1400s, move on to the 1500s telling everyone how their Obas were communicating with European kings, queens and the Pope, then move into the 1600s and reference European eyewitness historical accounts of Benin annexation of Lagos, then move on to the 1700s with more European visits to Benin for more trades and yet nothing in Yoruba history until the first European visit in 1824.

More than 400 years of Benin eyewitness historical accounts before Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts began, it must be heartbreaking.

To make up for these 400 years gap, Tao will start misrepresenting historical accounts as Ife, she will tell us how 6000 BC Egyptian writings on the pyramids referred to Ife, how Arabic written accounts of Zimbabwe was Ife, how the Coptic, cesspit and latrine interpretations of Viking writings referred to Ife.

Yoruba have no history but myths and fabrications.

The worst part of it is there are those that actually take her seriously.

Theideadoctor:
so Edo have history and no myth abi,ogisos the sky fathers coming from the sky is history abi,you are write Europeans document Benin history when they founded the city the late centuries, but not before the Europeans came, but Yoruba history was well recorded before Europeans came, that was why your early Edo historians had to meet Yoruba people to explain some historical data

Benin like any other civilisation have both myths and history. Benin doesn't dwell or emphasise on myths because there are numerous historical accounts, achievements and accomplishments to point to.

Yoruba doesn't have historical accounts to point to, that is why Yoruba dwells on myths.

[quote author=TAO11 post=97368328][/quote].

TAO11:
You mean the authorities of Benin kingdom in modern times went the extra mile of obtaining an ancient Ife artifact; and then buried it in their own Palace so that it can be excavated at a later date in order to prove that the Benin Palace is not related to Ife. /S Right?? LAMO!

What a wonderful boomerang and self-refutation!? This is the real ’wahala be like bicycle’. Chai! Inferiority complex is a bastard!
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12876310_899f61a34da646cbaaf6a1bec2525a2c_jpeg_jpeg571ab659770123c429812067cc64e477Not minding your boomeranging and self-debunking laughable supposition, archaeologists can always tell from the excavated artifacts if they were recently deposited or they’ve been deposited since ancient times.

Let me burst your bubble, he has also liknkd Egyptians to Ife — as descendants of Ife. He simply did all these on the pre-existing premise of the age-long Ife and general Yoruba religious belief that all of humanity (including Europeans) are originally descended from Ife. See the attachments below.

Historians treat these assertions as what they are — Yoruba belief. I am only “labouring” (as you put it — but successfully instead) on the descent of the Benin monarchy from Ile-Ife only because historians affirm it as historical; unlike the Igbos, Egyptians, Europeans, etc. Wake up and smell the coffee, Sam.

No, that’s not the reason ‘sweetheart’.

The reason is that I personally do not really care about your inferiority complex, and as such I wish to expose the historical truths to everyone included your south eastern neighbors — letting them realize (and they now do) that your Oba is a Yoruba man — regardless of the modern political twists.

Moreover, I can recall eyewitness accounts off the top of my head of Oyo-Dahomey relations from the 1700s. Moreover, the Aworis, Ijebus, Itsekiris also had early EUrOpEaN contact and writings from the same period as Benin.

Furthermore, Ibn Battuta’s writings on Ife and its king was in the 1300s. More than a hundred years before before EUrOpEaN’s arrival at the coast.

But like I have said earlier, I am discussing history not merely literature. In other words, “writing” is one of several historical evidence-types — all of which together prove that the Yoruba monarch is the father of the Benin monarch.

No, there is no need to steal EUrOpEaN writings on Benin, lad. I wonder if that is a statement to begin with.

Such effort would be counterintuitive when I already know that those same Benin writings agree with me that your Oba is a servant-monarch to an external overlord whom historians now identify as the Ooni of Ife.

Cc: Ideadoctor, Pa3cia, scholes0, DenreleDave, gomojam, SaintBeehot, TheLionofLasigi, reallest, babtoundey, Balogunodua, Newton85, sesan85, yanabasee, Pierocash, othermen, Abohboy, Ofunwa111, Juliusmalema, Obalatule, Afam4eva

You have just proved my point that Yoruba don't have history but myths by your screenshot that says all human lives and religion originated from Ife.

There is nothing more to say, you have just proved my point.

I am happy that one of you ardent Igbo supporters said the same thing recently that all Yoruba discussed are lies and myths. Only those that are interested in myths take Yoruba history seriously. I am sure you saw the comment.

Serious minded people can't take you guys seriously with all your myths and fabrications.

1. Oduduwa is from the Sky
2. Oduduwa is the son of Ham
3. Oduduwa is from Egypt
4. Oduduwa is from Ife
5. All human began in Ife
6 All religions began in Ife
7. Ooni become Egyptian God Osiris when they die
8. Ooni is a descendant of shrine keeper

Tell me one serious history student or history enthusiast that will take the above seriously.

Yoruba don't have history, all Yoruba have are myths and fabrications that keep changing according to the seasons and those telling the stories.

Like I said in my earlier comment, all society have their myths, but you will not see me propagating Benin myths as history. You will not see me sharing or referencing books on Benin myths to advance my arguments.

People debate myths in the absence of real history. Benin is full of real historical events, so no need for myths.

It took the European over 400 years after reaching Benin to get to Yoruba land. The European arrived Benin in the 1400s and didn't get to Yoruba land till 1824. Going from Benin City to Yoruba land was like travelling to furthest edge of the planet because of the challenge the terrain poses due to the backwardness of that locality at that time.

Infact European didn't borders taking the risk of venturing into this backwater until the decline of Benin, they only reached Ibadan towards the end of Benin empire and after Benin was destroyed by civil wars. So comparing Benin to Ibadan after Benin has been destroyed in the late 1800s is deceptive.

When the Europeans first arrived Benin, they immediately christened it a City comparable to their European cities of the time. Benin wasn't the first, non the only place the Europeans visited at this period in West Africa but it was the only place they deemed fit to call a City.

The European were so impressed by Benin City that they named an international body of water the bight of Benin after her. A clear departure from naming historical landmarks after themselves and their European kings and queens.

By the 16th century, the Oba of Benin sent an ambassador to Europe. The first in Africa.

The Benin moat was once recorded by the Guinness book of world records as greatest man made structure on earth

Throughout the 15th, 16th and the 17th century Obas of Benin had communications with Kings of Europe and the Pope.

Today, Benin artworks are found in all great museums of the world as a daily reminder of an Empire that existed and pride of the black race.

Now this is what real history looks like.

Keep telling Yoruba myths and fabrications to yourselves. I am sure that those that want to read real history and historical accounts of pre colonial Africa can find themselves historical materials on Benin Empire/kingdom to study not make up stories.

Ancient Benin history is at the same level with ancient Egypt, Rome and Greece.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmrdunRXfbw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8flCwvoAU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IlUMUGUorw

TAO11:
My first question: Is there any reason why you Quoted me but yet deleted my comment — those parts which specifically debunk the very rant you’re set to type??

I’m just curious. Is there something you’re afraid of?? Are you scared that the trained reader will notice that your rant is already debunked in the very comment you Quoted??
————————————

samuk’s latest style: Well, I will pretend like I couldn’t see where he already debunked each and every one of my rants. I no fit come die. Abeg, abeg, abeg.

My question: Is there a way that living in denial and pretense truly helps you as a coping mechanism?

Is there any reason why you’ve signed-up to live life in denial? You can talk to me:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12876310_899f61a34da646cbaaf6a1bec2525a2c_jpeg_jpeg571ab659770123c429812067cc64e477

In case there was some seeing problem earlier on, then the following is my word-for-word reply with which I already proved the ancient Ife-Benin Connection. See the reply once again:

“In relation to the Ife-Benin connection which has endured till date from many centuries in the past, see any of the two links below for two examples of the archaeological evidence which demonstrates this as a historical fact:

https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798
OR
https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726

The fist link relates to a ‘bronze’ artifact of a Benin King (and two attendants). This artifact was dated to have been manufactured around the year 1600. This artifact was excavated from Ile-Ife at an interesting site. Click the link for details.

The second link relates to a ‘bronze’ artifact of an Ife King. The artifact was dated to have been manufactured around the year 1400. The artifact was excavated from the Royal Palace of Benin Kingdom. Click the link for details.

Conclusion: The Ife-Benin Relationship is an ancient one from many centuries ago. ”


It appears we’re discussing different subjects at this point. LMAO!

For your information in case you began hallucinating, I am discussing history.

In other words, I am examining diverse historical evidence-types which includes: hard evidence (aka archaeological evidence), maps, writings, among other evidence-types.

The evidence-type with which I incontrovertibly demonstrated the existence of an ancient [b]pre-1400s connection between Ife and Benin[/b] comes from archaeology — that is, the hard evidence.

Writing is only one type of historical evidence lad.

————————
Now talking about written evidence having already demonstrated the same point from “hard” evidence:

The only piece of written evidence which connects Benin kingdom with an outside superior authority are from the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s.

These early written evidence are couched in a moot language which until recently did not allow some of its relevant content to be easily recognizable.

These relevant content didn’t become easily recognizable until other evidence such as artifacts, maps, and extant traditions, etc. are brought to bear.

The conclusion now reached in present-time by the consensus of historical scholarship is that, this superior monarch (spelt as Ogané, etc), noted in those early writings to be suzerain over Benin kingdom, is none other than the Ooni of Ife.
——————————

Having said that, the second prong of my comment w.r.t. your allusion to ”writing” is as follows:

There are more evidence for the ancient Ife-Benin connection than there are any evidence for the existence of Eweka I, Ewuare I, Olua, Ezoti, Oguola, Esigie, Ozolua.

What do I mean?
The ancient Ife-Benin Connection dating to the pre-1400s can be, and has been already, substantiated with the following evidence-type: (a) archaeological evidence, (b) extant oral accounts, (c) writing.

For the existence of Eweka I, Ewuare I, Olua, Ezoti, Oguola, Esigie, and Ozolua on the other hand, the only available evidence-type is extant oral accounts.

There are no archaeological evidence to substantiate their lives (obviously), neither is their any writing from their lifetime proving their existence.

Yet, the delusions would you to uphold the existence these unsubstantiated personages, but in the same breath deny the connection with multiple evidence-types.

How are people irrational and still breathe at the same time?

Get your life together samuk. Your Oba is a Yoruba man. I don’t know about you.

Cheers!

Cc: Ideadoctor, Pa3cia, scholes0, DenreleDave, gomojam, SaintBeehot, TheLionofLasigi, reallest, babtoundey, Balogunodua, Newton85, sesan85, yanabasee, Pierocash, othermen, Abohboy, Ofunwa111, Juliusmalema, Obalatule, Afam4eva

Your evidence is now an artifact that could have been buried and excavated by anyone.

The Ooni has linked the Igbo people to Ife which is probably more plausible than Benin/Ife link you flatly rejected it but labouring unsuccessfully to link Benin to Ife. WHY

The reason is without Benin, the entire Yoruba European eyewitness recording of Yoruba history began in 1824 when the Europeans first visited the Alaafin.

You want to steal Benin over 600 years eyewitness written history through the back door to shore up Yoruba feather weight history.

Igbo/Ife relationship is more plausible than Benin/Ife relationship. The Igbo and Yoruba even share common name considering the fact that an Ooni even had an Igbo name.

TAO11:
First of all, there is no EUrOpEaN writing on Benin history which, in a specific era, mentions the “Alaafin” to the exclusion of “Ife”, “Oduduwa”,

There are EUrOpEaN notes collected from Benin court officials in the the 1880s and 1890s which links the Benin monarchy back to the “Yoruba country” of the “Oni of Ife”.

Thirdly and most importantly, your often repeat the idea that the earliest EUrOpEaN WRITINGS collected from Benin did not mention the precise words “Oduduwa”, “Ooni”, or “Ife”.


Cc: Ideadoctor, Pa3cia, DenreleDave, gomojam, SaintBeehot, TheLionofLasigi, reallest, babtoundey, Balogunodua, Newton85, sesan85, yanabasee, Pierocash, othermen, Abohboy

Every society have their myths. When discussing real history, myths should be separated from real history and historical figures.

Benin/Ife relationship story can't be backed earlier than 1800s even though Benin have written history spanning over 600 years since the 1400s.

You have now admitted that the earliest you know about Benin/Ife relationship is 1880s and 1890s report.

In the absence of any mention of Benin/Ife relationship in Benin first 400 years written history, the Benin/Ife relationship was a 1800s fabrications.

If you believe Benin/Ife had relationship earlier than 1800s, it's now left for you to prove it.

You have repeatedly argued that the long held tradition of Oduduwa coming from Mecca or the middle east was fabricated because of lack of historical records to back it but you want everyone to accept Benin/Ife relationship that also lacks historical records beyond 1800s. This is hypocrisy and double standards.

Balogunodua:
You claim Ooni was a chief priest when your lie was bursted....you jump to Ife-Benin connection weytin be unavailable problem self

I don't usually respond to those that can't read or comprehend what they read. I am responding to you in the spirit of Christmas. If you expect response from me next time, you have to demonstrate that you have the ability to understand what is being said.

It wasn't me that claim that Ooni was a descendant of shrine keeper, early Yoruba historians, S. Johnson, Law, etc were the ones that made such claims from their research into Yoruba history.

All I did was to cite references from these Yoruba historians confirming Ooni being the descendant of shrine keeper.

In trying to prove early Yoruba historians wrong, Tao went on a diversionary tactics by submitting a reference that says Oba of Benin takes his crown from the Ooni. This is what I responded to, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even read Tao screenshot. My reply started by drawing attention to her screenshot.

Tao knows must of you can't read or comprehend what you read, that is why she dumps irrelevant citations and references which you guys can't even read or understand all over the place.

Don't expect me to waste my time replying you next time unless to you have something sensible and tangible to say.

TAO11:
Wonderful!

It’s interesting to see how you cited Professor Robin C. C. Law on this variant tradition even while the whole of his own article was essentially a refutation of the same variant traditions which had been collected by Johnson, et al. in Oyo, etc.

To quote this same historian where he debunks these variant traditions as spurious, Professor Robin C. C. Law writes on page 212 of his “The Heritage of Oduduwa” as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”

After combing through all the evidence, Professor Robin C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.



Regarding your oft-repeated laughable claim of 1930 pOLitIcAL eLeVaTiOn, I am super curious to know what this so-called elevation is, and who was responsible for the so-called elevation.

In your reply to this, please bear in mind that:

(1) The attached screenshots below are pages from a paper published in the year 1903. The details of the council’s meeting published therein had also been held in the same year. ~ “Native Crowns”, Journal of the Royal African Society Vol. 2, No. 7 (Apr., 1903).

(2) Awolowo was born in the year 1909. I really hope that Awolowo doesn’t have such miraculous power with which he elevates the ranks of kings even before he himself was born. LMAO!

Cc: Ideadoctor, Pa3cia, DenreleDave, gomojam, SaintBeehot, TheLionofLasigi, reallest, babtoundey, Balogunodua, Newton85, sesan85, yanabasee, pierocash, othermen

The screenshot you attached says the Oba of Benin receives his crown from the Ooni, how laughable? It goes to show that Yoruba lies and fabrications of history didn't just started recently, unfortunately for you guys the European have been documenting Benin history since 1471.

1471 to 1897, over 400 years of written Benin history, Ife, Oduduwa, Ooni and Oranmiyan weren't mentioned. Alaafin and several others were mentioned. WHY

Benin/Ife relationship was fabricated in the 1800s, if you say I am lying, I challenge you to provide any evidence that connect Benin to Ife earlier than 1800s.

Please if you must respond? Come back with the evidence, not insults and irrelevant references and citations that doesn't answer the question as usual.

valirex:
Well I will continue preaching the truth, and you can't stop me

According the prevalent myths of Ooni of Ife before his 1930 political elevation.

S. Johnson said in his book, The History of the Yorubas that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book; the historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published).

valirex:
Oni was a chief priest before Awolowo changed things, that was also around the time Awolowo made the Ogiame of Itsekiri the Olu of Warri.
If you go back in history the Northern part of Yoruba land was under the control of the Alafin of Oyo and the Southern part was under the control of the Ọba of Benin.

Benin was once so powerful that the Alaafin paid tributes to the Oba of Benin. Even after Benin started declining in the later part of the 19th century the Alaafin of Oyo still rely heavily on the Oba of Benin for army to help him secure his territory.

What I wrote above was written by British governor in 1911 who the Alaafin visited and told this history, so it is an eyewitness historical account.

Below is how the Alaafin of Oyo described the Oba of Benin in time past.

The Alaafin in 1911 seems to have provided his own idea of the power the kings of Benin had once held, from an African (Oyo Yoruba) perspective.

Anyway, the statement from Clapperton:

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

Ideadoctor:
shut up alaye, what are you saying?you fucking Igbo dullard, how dare you lay mouth on Yoruba issue? don't get me angry.... I am treating Benin madness ever since I entered nairaland, if you vomit nonsense again, I will leave Benin madness and come for Igbo madness

What is this one even saying, it doesn't sound like you have a brain. I hope you are not being powered by lithium batteries.

Your level of ignorance stinks to high heavens, you're an embarrassment. Pele o nairaland fake psychiatrist doctor that treats madness.

You have been noticed, now run along. I don't usually notice toddlers, take this as early Christmas gift and don't expect many more going forward.

Juliusmalema:
Acknowledgement mbok

If you weren't interested in the acknowledgement, you wouldn't have commented. The truth is most of you like the way the Benin are flogging the Yoruba on your behalf.

I wont be surprised if these threads attract more silent Igbo readers than any other tribes.

The Yoruba have devised a of way shouting Igbo down whenever they raise their heads to comment on history.

You will hear the Yoruba say something like, who? An Igbo discussing history? Did Igbo even have an organised society before the white man came? Weren't they living on trees, going naked and wearing banana leaves before the white man came? What does an Igbo know about history? Did the Igbo not say, Igbo enwe Eze? So what is their business discussing history, an IPOB terrorist? All of a sudden the Igbos are beaten to retreat and go back into hiding and will be reading from there, too scared to interrupt or challenge Yoruba lies. Tao will now have a feed day waxing lyrical and she will be throwing all over the place, selected skewed references and citations which she often misinterprets and misrepresents.

The Yoruba can't try the same nonsense with the Benins because Benin is the history everyone studies.

As the Igbo will always say:

akụkọ iro Obodo Idu na Oba. (Benin where the Oba lives is where all stories, folktales and history happened)

Juliusmalema:
Just stop mentioning Igbos. There is nothing here that concerns us to argue..

Just stop...

In case you got carried away enjoying yourself reading the comments, go back and read the title of this thread.

The thread was created because Oguta people of Imo state claimed to have migrated from Benin.

If it's true (I have no reason to doubt their claims) that there are Benin people in Oguta, I have to acknowledge my people.

TAO11:
Cc: LegendHero, babtoundey, Balogunodua, Newton85, sesan85, nisai, RuggedSniper, Ideadoctor, reallest, Barbilius, DenreleDave, gomojam, SaintBeehot, Afam4eva, Ofunwa111, Juliusmalema, pazienza, Obalatule, ABULARdotCom

Fraud Alert

If TAO11 can provide us with any eyewitness historical accounts dating earlier than 1800s backing Benin/Ife relationship, I am sure most of us and me in particular will see reason to shift grounds. But for now there is no such evidence available and the Benin/Ife relationship remains fabrications and work of fiction.

You can't tell us Oranmiyan came to Benin in 1185AD and there is no single record in the Benin European historical archives for almost 500 years.

The Portuguese arrived Benin in the 1400s, they started documenting Benin history in 1471.

All tribes Benin encountered were mentioned in Benin history pre-1897, but Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan who are supposed to be the most important link between Benin and Yoruba are missing from the history books.

It was not until 1897 after the British have sacked and destroyed Benin with the Oba deposed to Calabar that Benin/Ife relationship appeared in Rupert's report of 1897.

Benin/Ife relationship was fabricated after the end of Benin empire/Kingdom.

Rupert was not the first British or European to visit Benin, countless Europeans, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese etc visited Benin and Obas of Benin repeatedly since the 1400s yet none were told about Benin/Ife relationship, why? Did the Benin forget this most important part of their history or it didn't happened.

gregyboy:
Okphia kudos

My brother, the Benin have too much in history to celebrate and be proud of. We are very secured and can never feel inferior to anyone.

All we are after is the truth and nothing but the historical truth.

adadike:
being the oldest tribe in Nigeria, I believe the great igbos once rule over Benin empire and to an extent yorubaland. The story of moremi even confirmed it. I also heard that in those days even till date, that before a new king will ascend the throne of Benin , emmisaries must be sent to Nri. I heard it's done in secret to avoid pride and insults

If there are evidence to support the above, the average Benin person will celebrate it as a shared history and heritage. This will by no means make the average Benin person feel insecure, inferior and small before an Igbo person, it will not diminish our sense of pride in the historical achievements of our forebears.

I wish the average Yoruba or Igbo person can feel this way whenever their tribes are historically linked to other tribes.

The only thing the Benin people don't take is unsubstantiated claims.

If TAO11 can provide us with any eyewitness historical accounts dating earlier than 1800s backing Benin/Ife relationship, I am sure most of us and me in particular will see reason to shift grounds. But for now there is no such evidence available and the Benin/Ife relationship remains fabrications and work of fiction.

Etrusen:
I think they always become more upset when they see we the benins accepting our brothers who claim on their own that they are from Benin

no body force anybody to accept Benin ancestry but people willingly accept it because they know their history meanwhile some personally non_related concern individual keep on crying for the decision a group made in regard to themselves.

if you ask them to provided any account that historically link oguta to another origin, it become a problem.

I don't know the argument of the non_ oguta people here

The reason many of these people are upset with Igbo tribes that claim Benin ancestry is because it makes them feel inferior to those Igbo subgroups because of their own lack of history.

They want to create an Igbo race in which all subgroups will jettison and deny their past historical relationships with great Benin or Igala. In their foolishness, they fail to realise that this is not how to build a great nation.

America, despite her size and greatness, acknowledges, accommodates and promotes their past historical links. But I can see why black American descendants of slaves who have been stripped of their, identity, culture and history will feel inadequate or inferior in the midst of their white counterparts with glorious European historical links.

This lack of history of some of these Igbo is what TAO11 capitalises on to bamboozle them with her/his disjointed, unrelated and skewed citations and references even though most Yoruba themselves are not better than some Igbo subgroups.

This lack of history by some Igbos is why they are easily misled by someone like TAO11. Most of these people have nothing to counter her with unlike Benin were history were actually made. It's easier for Benin to see through her lies.

What the Yoruba have managed to do more successfully than the Igbos is, Yoruba descendants of freed slaves are able to hide under any of the native tribes to masquerades as a free born. This is why you will hardly find an Ife man here debating.

The Yoruba tactics is to link themselves to Ife, then link Ife to Benin and all of a sudden, a descendant of freed slaves becomes someone with blue royal blood, this is how they intimidate an Igbo with better sense of history into submission.

TAO11:
If you have have anything that looks like evidence

Cc: LegendHero, RuggedSniper, Balogunodua, babtoundey, Newton85, sesan85, reallest, SaintBeehot, Ideadoctor, macof, DenreleDave

No amount of lies, insults unrelated references and citations can change the fact that Yoruba history only started in the 1800s after the amalgamation of freed slaves in Europe and America with native people of south western Nigeria who were largely under Benin lordship.

The only people that learn from you or take your submissions serious are dullard/dunce like yourself.

If you have any evidence that the people of Western Nigeria were known as Yoruba people before the 1800s when your lord and master, the white man created you from the remnant of their unwanted slaves, present it.

I am quite familiar with the fact that when people come of age, they whitewash some embarrassing aspects of their history, Yoruba with the pretentious acclaim of being sophisticated is not there yet to be able to change and whitewash their past history.

Below are two videos on the history of the Yoruba people.

Below the two videos are evidences of Benin lordship over south western Nigeria before and after the name Yoruba was given to you people.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llporKrPsbU&t=1662s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

Below is how the Alaafin of Oyo described the Oba of Benin in time past.

The Alaafin in 1911 seems to have provided his own idea of the power the kings of Benin had once held, from an African (Oyo Yoruba) perspective.

Anyway, the statement from Clapperton:

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

Archaeologically Ife is younger than Benin. This proves Benin/Ife relationship as fabrication.

Prof. Biobaku has suggested that the eastern fringe of what is now Yorubaland was in pre-Yoruba days thinly inhabited by the ancestors of the modern Benin people, a people which he called the Efa. And if recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built not before the first decade of the 16th century thereby making it to be younger than Benin

Benin lordship over Yoruba Land.

No part of Ekiti was spared the agony of imperialist invasions…The rampaging Benin armies sacked Ogotun, Aramoko, some subordinate communities of Ijero, Ado communities such as Are, Afao, Ugbo (now Ilu) Omoba and Agbado and settled a large percentage of the haul of captives therefrom in Ikere, their garrison post.


Benin armies constantly waged wars of external aggressions on Ekitiland and other communities in different parts of old Ondo State in their quest for territorial expansion and control, among others. A good reference point is the Ado-Ikere relations that resulted to Benin pillage and attacks on Ado-Ekiti on several occasion. Olomola (1984:2-3) noted that Benin armies invaded parts of Ado kingdom a few times between 1500 and 1815.. Olomola further asserted that the Ewi actually devise a strategy of evacuating his capital city so that the Benin armies would not disturb the Ewi and the rest of his people in their new site.
Odo which was, before the Benin invasion a town of considerable size, broke up as the people sought the safety of rocky and forest recesses and Uyin and Igede lost part of their population in their fight against Benin in 1815.

The development of the Ado Kingdom was seriously affected by external invasion. These resulted in series of demographic upheavals with settlements constantly moved from one site to another. The most serious of these external invasions were by the "Edo" of Benin. They attacked and destroyed many settlements…in the Ado Kingdom… The Edos were invited by Ogoga, the third time the Edos were so invited to settle the quarrel between Ado and Ikere. The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado. Ado would then be afraid of Ikere. The Benin soldiers came and sent words to the Ewi Aroloye… He refused to surrender. He did not in any way show that he was not ready for fight. Every town or village under him except Ijan were prepared to fight…


Every town or village under him (Ewi) except Ijan were prepared to fight… The Benin soldiers stormed Igbara-Odo and Ilawe and took them. At this time, Ado town had been vacated. Aroloye took the people to a place called Oke Oko Axis between Ifaki and Iworoko. Most of the gods Ado worshipped on that side: Olua at Eyio, Obanifon at Esure and Are, Ogbese and Orisala at Iworoko. The soldiers pitched their camps near Uyin (Iyin)…Ogbesi Okun, the then Oluyin …was conquered and killed. They proceeded to Igede, Awo and Esure and took them. The inhabitants of Igede then uder Okiribiti were driven in a north-easternly direction to a place called Oke Asha…Edo troops then marched to Iworoko…The soldiers entered Are…The same fate befell Afao. They were all taken to Ikere. The soldiers moved to Igbemo …entered Igbo-Omoba (now Ilu-Omoba)…The soldiers left Aisegba for Agbado and without delay took it and evacuated the people. Agbado was the last place under the Ewi. With the conquest, of Agbado, the soldiers seemed to have finished their job…’

Ewi Idagunmodo (1696-1710), Ewi Okinbaloye Aritawekun (1710-1722), Ewi Amono Ola (1722-1762), Ewi Afunbiowo (1762-1781), Ewi Akulojuorun (1781-1808), Ewi Aroloye (1808-1836) who reigned at Ado but were attacked successively by Benin hordes…‘During the reign of Ewi Aroloye, Ado-Ewi’s kingdom witnessed massive dislocation across the terrain as town dwellers and villagers ran for safety in different directions. Many of the captives from Iworoko, Are, Afao, Ugboomoba (now Ilumoba) and Agbado were taken to Ukere by Benin invaders’."

No need to go into Lagos/Benin history, it's too well known.

TAO11:
I never insulted you. I only called you a dullard.


Moreover, all Yorubas have some links to Ife. I am Awori/Ijebu — hence, I am from Ife. My mother is a princess of Ife.

You, on the other hand, are a juvenile slave of the Yoruba-Oba of Benin. Hence you remain my slave forever?

Moreover, all humans in the world are originally descended from Ife (including south-eastern Igbos and Chinese) according to Ife belief.

So, the statement you mindlessly attributed to the Ooni only serves to confirm this belief.

You reduced and rubbished what the Ooni said to myth which has no historical backing by your suggestion that the whites and Chinese are also from Ife.

TAO11:
That religious belief is not necessarily a presentation of history, dullard!

In other words, the south eastern-Igbos are not necessarily historically descended from Ife just as the Chinese aren't necessarily historically descended from Ife.

That you need this to be broken down to you is very telling. How old are you? LMAO!

You are such a fool to think insults wins arguments, those that find it easier to insults don't usually have anything in their brains. If you believe in the power of your argument and submissions why quick to insults?

As usual what you presented as evidence has no relevance to the debate on Igbo being the original inhabitants of Ife.

As I initially predicted those without links to Ife are now indirectly insulting the Ooni for saying Igbo were ancient inhabitants of Ife.

TAO11:
According to Ife religious belief, every human in the world is from Ife.

So what is your argument with Hellraiser77

Ooni of Ife and the Igbo-Yoruba relationship
ON AUGUST 11, 20193:05 AMIN THE ORBIT


By Obi Nwakanma


The Ooni of Ife, Adeyeye Enitan Ogunwusi recently opened a longstanding debate about the relationship between the Igbo and the Yoruba, and did affirm that the Igbo were ancient inhabitants of Ife. The Ooni’s asserts that the ancient Igbo connections to Ife is still evident in the traditions preserved in the oral narratives of Ife itself, and in the extant lineages of the Igbo still present in their habitations inside the Ooni’s palace. The Igbo quarters are still present in Ife. What the Ooni brings to this debate is legitimacy, because Yoruba tradition confers the authority of national memory on the office of the Ooni.

Hellraiser77:
[s][/s]
Tao11 the pathological liar ....you have ressurected me by mentioning Igbos again in your unending stream of lies which I will thrash one after the other


( 1) Igbos remain the oldest Distinct group of people in modern day Nigeria with a history dating back to 6,000 years ago
The remains in Iwo eleru(which are not really human remains as you claimed) dates back to 43,000 years while yorubas only started settling the area around 12th century, how could this be the ancestors of Yoruba people?

Igbo people that spoke a language very closely related to modern igbo resided in Ile ife before yoruba started coming into the area from modern day Kogi state.

(2) Obatala who is the first Oba in Ile ife(Igbo omoku) is an Igbo priest, so clearly Igbos ruled yoruba in Igbo omoku (ask me for evidence)

Agreed the moremi episode has Little to do with modern day south Eastern Igbos but with a distinct Igbo group that inhabited ife(Igbo omoku) prior to yoruba arrival(s).

The moremi stories are absent in the history of South eastern Igbos today simply because it has nothing to do with them, the Igbos mentioned in the moremi story are now in ondo state as the ugbo people and they preserve alot of their Igbo traits till this day.


To anybody doubting the Igbo roots of ugbo people note that the most successful ruler of ugbo/igbo people while they where in ile Ife(Igbo omoku) is named "Ekenwa" ....how Igbo does that get?

cc Adadike

I believe the present Ooni of Ife actually stated that Igbo people were the original inhabitants of Ife. I know those without any link to Ife will argue this and even insult the Ooni.

TAO11:
Apparently, the Yoruba language came to the rescue of all West African slaves, including the Edo slaves who both at home and in slavery were subjected to the Yoruba language. Wonderful!
——————

In the video report below, many African-Americans of Edo ancestry trace their roots back to the Edo kingdom of Benin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDve0rwQbM

Yes, African Americans. Yes, the same people whose ancestors found themselves in the Americas via the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. Yes, they trace themselves back home to Benin kingdom.

Now I know your insecurity and defense mechanism would kick in to cause you to pretend to be unsure of how their Edo ancestors got enslaved and sold off in the first place. Lol.

Well, the testimony obtained from the Edos themselves by the late Professor R. E. Bradbury during his ethnographic survey of Benin kingdom is very telling in that regards.

Refer to the embedded image below (from page 112 of R. E. Bradbury’s “The Benin Kingdom and the Edo-Speaking Peoples of South Western Nigeria”, 1957) for some educative information in that regards:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12815289_bca0e87c457845658417dc2c4adc4a37_jpeg_jpegcb02a2c075079f7291fc168ee37e91ea

Now, that you’ve found out how your people were enslaved and sold-off by the Yorubas, the difference you must now realize is that many Yorubas who were sold-off fought their freedom back home.

However, all the enslaved Edos (on the other hand) remained slaves in the Americas perpetually ad-infinitum.

Cc: Ideadoctor, gomojam, macof, RuggedSniper, googi, scholes0, Newton85, Balogunodua, babtoundey, reallest, nisai, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, Amujale, Afam4eva, Ofunwa111, LegendHero, Barbilius, Juliusmalema, pazienza, Obalatule, ABULARdotCom

You never missed an opportunity to misinform the gullible and less informed. You prey on people's ignorance alot, I don't know if this is deliberate or you are just less informed yourself or you don't think about your logical conclusions before you present them.

You start by presenting a faulty narrative to prepare your gullible students and then support your hypothesis with unrelated citations to make your argument look and sound authentic.

Your submission and citations doesn't explain how some genetically Edo people ended up in America.

Reasons why your logic is faulty:

According to your own citations/reference, the raids into Edo North by either the Nupe or Ibadan happened after the middle of the 19th century.

1. Your reference didn't say that Edo villagers were captured and sold into slavery, this is your assumption.

2. By the later part of 19th century when these raids in Edo North were said to have occurred, transatlantic slave trade was already banned in America. See below.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect on January 1, 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.
Long title: AN ACT to prohibit the importation of slaves, into any port or place within t...
Effective: January 1, 1808
Enacted by: the 9th United States Congress

3. Though there were still illegal trades in slavery up till 1870, most of the cargoes went to the sugarcane and cotton plantations of the Caribbean.

4. People of Edo origin/heritage could have become victims of the transatlantic slave trade through other means but not through your wishful thinking.

5. There are people and tribes from Lagos, eastern Yoruba, south east, south south and middle belt Nigeria that traces their origins to Benin. Edo indigines could have become victims of the transatlantic slave trade through anyone of these people/tribes not through Nupe and Ibadan raids in Edo North in the middle to late 19th century when Benin was in decline.

6. I have already disproved that Ogane couldn't be Ife, please stop deceiving people with it.

7. Archeological study of Ife dates the earliest settlements to the first decade of 16th century. Ogane/Benin history was recorded in the 15th century.

8. Ogane was said to be in the opposite direction from Benin, not the direction of Ife.

9. Ogane was said to be a 20 moons or months travel from Benin and a distance of about 900 miles, Ife is less than 200 miles from Benin and the journey couldn't have taken 20 moons or months.

10. Ogane does not sounds like Ife, Oduduwa or Ooni.

11. Please don't tell me that there were artworks found in Ife older than 16th century, even if this is true, which I doubt, it doesn't prove they were made in Ife.

12. Hope you will not come back with insults as usual after you have been lectured.

Obalatule:
We are not your brothers cos we don't share blood, what you have with western Igbos is a story of simple migration and return migration.

Bini used to be a thriving kingdom that attracted various stocks of Igbos from their homelands: craftsmen, juju men and merchants alike.

When Bini kingdom casted they jejely started returning towards their Kith and kin in the East

Don't misconstruct our stories of returning from bini to mean we are Edo people.....even Igbanke people in Edo state today know they are Igbos not edo

You bini nairalanders are supposed to be tired of this your tomfoolery here by now

Okay, so Igbo simply returned back home. Next time they do documentary, please advise them to add these little details if you are telling the truth.

When I read Zik autobiography, I didn't read him saying his people returned back to Onitsha, his grandmother claimed that they were of the royal household of Benin and Onitsha means those that despised others because of their Benin royal blood. This doesn't sound like they simply returned back home.

The Oguta BBC documentary didn't say the Oguta people returned back home.

Why should it bother you if some people claim they are from Benin, does it make you insecure and smaller than them? I don't get it. Does it make them more superior than you? If not, why do you care where they claim to have migrated from. Why should it bother or give you and your brothers heartaches.

Twutin:
Oyo fought against teenage breast swinging girls of Dahomey and they lost woefully

This was harsh and funny at the same time. Don't blame Oyo warriors too much for losing focus on the battlefield by looking at teenage breasts swinging. Something must kill a man.

To be fair to Oyo, they were not the first to lost to the power of women, history is replete with kings that lost their kingdoms due to the powers of women.

Obalatule:
Shameless Edo blokes.....besides my own town in Anambra has a story of of returning from bini Come and claim us too

You don't mean it. So Benin people are everywhere including your town. I now get your anger, jealousy and frustration against Benin, they seem to be everywhere in Igbo land.

You don't seem to get it, Benin is not claiming anyone but just acknowledging those that identify with Benin.

What's wrong with acknowledging someone that call you his brother? Why would a stranger of bystander be upset when Benin acknowledge those that traces their history to Benin? Do you guys want Benin to call these people liars?

What exactly is upsetting you guys about all these?

Benin is not looking for population because population does not make a nation or people great, otherwise Nigeria with over 200 million people would have been greater than Israel with less than 10 million people.

[quote author=Ofunwa111 post=97135870][/quote]Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha." SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4 "I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD." SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5 "One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins....." "I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala[b]. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu[/b]....... ..." "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc..." SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity"

Etrusen:
is it zik that says oguta people are from Benin ?

or is it Benins that says oguta are their people?


please what is your argument

These guys lack common sense.

Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe who's a native of Onitsha wrote about his Onitsha people migration from Benin, some nonentities who are not from Onitsha are upset with Benin for sharing it.

The people of Oguta in Imo state did a BBC documentary in Igbo language and told the entire world they migrated from Benin, one lowlife suffering from inferiority complex and not from Oguta is upset with the Benins for sharing it.

The Ikwerre of Rivers state lead by their number citizen, governor Wike made a broadcast to the world that they are not Igbo but people of Benin heritage, some Igbos are upset with the Benins.

There are people from all directions east, west, south and north of Benin that claim to have migrated from Benin for various reasons in the past.

It's not our fault that our ancestors built a great empire/kingdom that people are still identifying with over 100 years since it came to an end.

RedboneSmith:
Like I said when you first quoted me on this thread, silu gi nsi nsi si ebe a pua.

The fact you feel offended by your fellow Igbos laying claim to Benin shows your level of inferiority complex.

I get it, your ancestors moved down to Anioma in Delta state from the east and you have been trying to claim Anioma as part of Igbo and Biafra land only for you to start reading and hearing some core easterners are claiming Benin ancestry.

It's your people claiming Benin, not the other way round and there is nothing you can do about it, if you like cry from now till eternity.

RedboneSmith:
As an aside: it's funny to watch Benin and Igala people (who are uncomfortable with being minorities in today's modern Nigeria) attempt to create a meta-ethnic group by laying claims to all of their neighbours who have traditions of migrating from Benin or Idah.

I've always said that oral traditions are the most ridiculous basis upon which to attempt to build an ethnic identity. The language that a people currently speak and the way they self-identify are the indices, not oral traditions.

An example: there are Isoko clans that claim in their traditions that their ancestors migrated from Igboland. Igbide is one of those communities. There are others I do not readily recall. Now imagine if Igbo people came online to lay claims to these communities today. Imagine the outrage, and cries of 'landgrabbers' that will ring everywhere.

Another example: Idumoka people in Esan migrated from Awka in Anambra State. No Igbo person I know is interested in dragging the Idumoka people of Esan into some Igbo meta-ethnicity. They are Esan, and that's that.

Only small small groups are interested in using oral traditions (which are non-verifiable, if I may add) to swell their numbers.

The Igala own is even more annoying, lol. I used to talk a lot about how my own community claims Igala origin. I actually believe there is some truth to this claim, but my people are not Igala anymore, and when I see clowns like Ayegba Abdullahi running around claiming my people belong to the Igala nation, my emotions vacillate between anger and amusement. I am Anioma and Igbo today, and that's that on that.

Onitsha and Ugwuta are Igbo, not Benin. All their political moves within modern Nigeria show where their ethnic loyalties lie. They are not interested in your Greater Edo. You know the people that are interested in that - - - the Ekpeye, the Ikwerre and related groups in the south-south, who are attempting to wash away the 'taint' on Igboness by clinging to Benin. You can have them. Just leave the southeast out of it. Also leave those of us in parts of Anioma who are not interested out of it. Tenkiu.

You are writing like someone turned your head upside down and turned you inside out, you continue to use the word dumb when you are actually the dumb one here.

When did Oguta or anyone else claiming Benin ancestry mean Benin is the one trying to expand into Igbo land?

Instead of you to take up the issues with your fellow Igbos laying claim to Benin, you are here lashing out at Benin for simply acknowledging them due to your own inferiority complex.

It's not Benin claiming any part of Igbo land or people, it's the other way round, stupid.

RedboneSmith:
Oga, stop being downright silly. This topic has been discussed exhaustively on this forum. There are communities on the western fringes of the southeast that claim their ancestors fled from Benin during one political turmoil or war. Communites with documented claims of Benin ancestry include Onitsha and Ugwuta (Oguta). Ogbaru communties also contains lineages that have such claims. These claims have been known for generations and is not a secret.

These claims do not mean Benin rule extended to those places. I've educated you several times on the difference between ancestry, influence and political control, but it appears you are a very slow learner. When people say they ran away from a certain place to escape the tyranny of a wicked king, and established their own community far away from that king, you have to be stupid to think the new community automatically was still a part of the tyrannical king's realm.

Secondly, take a look at a map of the southeast. Communites with Benin ties (Onitsha and Ugwuta, for example) are in the extreme west of the southeast, in the Niger valley. The vast swathe of the southeast did not share this ties. So the idea that Benin was some sort of poiltical centre of southern and Middle Belt Nigeria, based on the traditions of fringe communites is demonstrably ridiculous.

PS: Why do you people keep on bringing up Zik's autobiography written in the 1970s, but when I bring up a historical essay that the same Zik wrote earlier in the 1930s which appears to contradict what he wrote in the '70s, you people keep mute or ignore. I thought you were a great proponent of the theory that earlier documents are always more authentic than later ones?

All these outbursts and vituperation because the Oguta people of Imo state in the heartland of Igbo claimed that they migrated from Benin?

Does the fact that they are now Igbo change their genetic make up? All these people claiming Benin carry Benin DNA in their blood irrespective of how they are identified presently.

Judging from your reaction, it shows that you are pained that Benin DNA are all over the place in Igbo land.

How can Benin be classified as minorities but yet ubiquitous.

If Oguta, Ihiala, Obosi, Onitsha, Ogba, Egede, Ikwerre etc. Claims that they were all Benin migrants, does the Oba of Benin need to have had direct political influence over these towns for them to have Benin influence?

Benin people already populated these towns, so no need for the Oba of Benin to disturb them, no need to take war to his people.

Stop looking for evidence of Benin war machine in Igbo land as evidence of Benin political and cultural influence in Igbo land.

The Western fringes of Igbo land is Anioma or Delta North, Oguta in Imo state is in the heartland of Igbo.

You must think very highly of yourself to say you are teaching me to learn your skewed revisionist history.

RedboneSmith:
Silu gi nsi-nsi si ebea pua. A na-ako one, O kolu 18 bata.

akụkọ iro Obodo Idu na Oba. Igbo enwe eze.

Obodo Idu na Oba was once the centre of the world for southern and middle belt Nigeria.

You can now see that Olaudah Equiano and Zik were right.