₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
Anyways, to keep my free education program to Bini dullards going:

Bishop Adjai Crowther was NOT a Muslim, neither was J. O. George, neither was Pa Moses Lijadu, neither was Rev. S. Johnson, et al., nor did Sultan Bello live beyond 1837 (let alone up to the 1890s).

We are now finally getting closer to the truth. Which of the names you mentioned above wrote their history of Oduduwa being an actual person earlier than 1800s. Which of their narrative of Oduduwa fairytales is earlier than 1800s.

So far we have gone through 1400s, 1500s, 1600, 1700 without Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in either Benin or Yoruba history. We are now in the 1800s when the fairytale was actually fabricated.

You have just proved my point unless you can show us evidence of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in any historical context of being actual human beings other than gods earlier than 1800s.

Show us anything in the 1799 and earlier, why is this so difficult for you to do. You just told us Oranmiyan and Oduduwa flourished a 1000 years earlier and despite the fact that 500 years of the first 800 years was documented, you still can't show us concrete evidence.

I wonder what your Igbo supporters will think about all these your lies.

Stay focused on the topic, we are not discussing Benin/Onitsha relationship or Obas of Benin but when Oduduwa story was created.

TAO11 show us evidence not unconnected gibberish.

TAO11:
First of all, you’re replying the wrong comment — a comment directed at your co-liar.

Hence, you probably want to check who is triggered and stop projecting your agony.

Listen laughing stock:

Which of the following two should you actually be sad about as per the absence of eyewitness writing ??

(a) MyThiCaL EwUaRe-1, et al. whom EUrOpEaNs were supposed to have met in the 1400s.

Yet there is not one single European writing to prove his existence until he was transformed from mYtH to human in the 1900s.

OR

(b) Oduduwa, Oranmiyan et al. who flourished in c. 1000s — some four centuries prior to when the first EUrOpEaNs would visit W/Africa and write down a word.
—————
The fact that you are from Bini should not stop you from using your brain.

Start using your brain TODAY!

So Oduduwa and Oranmiyan flourished in c. 1000s - four centuries prior to the first visit of Europeans and yet there is nothing in European writings for almost 500 years that shows or even suggested that the names Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were mentioned to them save for latterday manipulation, twisting and misrepresentation of ancient names in Benin history to back up the Oduduwa and Oranmiyan fairytales.

European were practically resident in Benin from the 1600s, why are there no accounts of Benin/Ife interactions during these periods.

Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were not mentioned for 500 years only for us to be told that he flourished 1000 years earlier? On which historical archives did you dig up this bull...$t from. Oh I forgot the muslims led by the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello told you so in late 1890s.

Please keep the lies coming.

TAO11:
This ones’ brain actually came as fairly used, but I will still be nice enough to offer you free education sha! Hehe
(1a) Rui de Sequeira visited the Aworis’ settlement in 1472 and he documented the received name of their island (and its immediate lagoon outlet to the Atlantic) as the Lake of EkoAromi (translated) — that is, “Lago de Curamo”

(1b) Duarte Pacheco Periero followed suit in 1508 to the same settlement; and to IjebuOde as well, writing about the great city, its ruler, its moat, etc.

(1c) In fact, according to Benin written accounts, the first EuroPean visitor to Benin (in the 1480s), Joao Afonso d’Aviero, was first in Yorubaland (Itsekiri) before messengers came from the Benin king, begging that he should please visit Benin too.

(2) Oduduwa ruled Ife under the following titles among several others:

(a) ‘Oghone’ (which is later spelt/articulated as ‘Owoni’, and now spelt/articulated as ‘Ooni’).

The Binis of old articulate this title of the kings of Ife as ‘Oghene’. ~ See your Oba Erediauwa’s “The Benin-Ife Connection” for an example.

[By the way Erediauwa was a terrible liar, but he was conscious enough of the need to admit this particular fact].

(b) ‘Olofin’ (of which ‘Alaafin’ of the Oyos, and ‘Alaofin’ of the Kogi-Yorubas are dialectal variations).

(c) ‘Adimula’ — amongst many other titles.

That’s the education you’ve been requesting. I didn’t oblige because it is irrelevant to the actual classes I was taking you on at the moment.

(3) (a) The Benin custom of Yoruba tribal marks was received by M. Crowder as pertaining to coronation.

You must therefore first present the Benin bronzes which depict a time of an oba’s coronation.

(b) Moreover, the Benin custom of Yoruba tribal mark was received by M. Crowder as a non-permanent one drawn by chalk.

You must therefore first argue for the linguistic and logical equivalence of chalk and razor.

I finally triggered something in you, keep the lies coming, I will be looking out for when Oduduwa and Oranmiyan finally came into your story as historical persons.

You have given us citations from the 1400s and 1500s, no Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife mentioned yet. Maybe you should try 1600s, 1700s and 1800s. Please tell us when Oduduwa as a historical person came into Yoruba history, this shouldn't be too difficult.

It's easy to tell fairytales but very difficult to defend them with evidence.

You told us aworis settlement was visited in 1472, Ijebu in 1508 and Benin in 1480, I still don't see were Oduduwa was mentioned in these various visits by the Europeans or where those that was visited told the Europeans about Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Until you can prove me wrong with evidence, the Oduduwa story of being a person other than a myth was created in the 1800s. Please refute it if you can.

You must be deluding yourself by giving us unrelated references to the topic and then tell us Oduduwa ruled Ife under a different name, what year was that, who wrote it down and what year did Benin Oghene metamorphosed into Oduduwa?

Yoruba can't back up Ife and Oduduwa story without looking for unrelated names in Benin history to twist, first you told us Ogane that was mentioned in Benin history was Ife, now you are telling us that Benin Oghene was Oduduwa, yoruba also have to rely on Benin to date Oduduwa to the 1100s. Without Benin history your Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife fallacy is dead on arrival.

You keep referencing and misrepresenting Benin history to back up your Oduduwa fairytales.

Please give us references from Yoruba historical sources earlier than 1800s to back your fabricated Oduduwa up. You can't come here to be using Benin history to defend your Oduduwa story and when the Oba of Benin says he was a Benin prince, you are full of insults.

You have nothing to back your Oduduwa story earlier than 1800s, the Benin you rely on are telling you that he was a Benin prince, you are trying to select the narrative that suits your bigotry.

As for your other minions, I have no time to waste on them. They have nothing but insults to offer.

TAO11:
Oh really!? This is the latest from the stables of Bini slaves?? Wonderful!

I would have thought that “Oba” means: “Holy Aruosa Light” — instead of “Celestial Light”.

What a load of rrRRrrUbish?! [careless laughter]

You have nothing worthy of note to say these days, seems the Benins have clipped your wings, where are all your citations on how Oduduwa metamorphosed from myth to an historical personage.

It must hurt being reduced to be reading from the sidelines with nothing to counter the Benins with. This most be disheartening to your Yoruba and Igbo supporters. No more soft targets to bamboozled with lies, fabrications, misrepresented citations, illogicality and funny photos. looks like your lying days are coming to an end, you're going to missed though.

davidnazee:
Well your approach (passionate and hot tempered) probably is not the best way.. like samuk said, a gentle approach is better..
Even if we say Oduduwa is a myth due to our research don't forget our Oba says he existed and was an Edo prince before he became Oduduwa.. so a lot of Edos will believe that too..

The reality on ground are:

1. Oduduwa story is here to stay
2. The Yoruba will continue to propagate it and they have the numerical strength to distort it.
3. The Oba of Benin is an authority that will be believed
4. There is a collusion of history and politics.

It will be fatal to simply argue history and leave the politics.

When we debate history, what is our target audience compared to Yoruba audience who are more interested in the fairytale of Oduduwa. Our strategy should change.

Those clever by half free slaves Yoruba historians that created Oduduwa story made a fatal error which was first exploited by the Sultan of Sokoto to Islamised more than half of the Yoruba population. This same flaw/error was what Oba Erediawa capitalized on in the 1970s. The Yoruba still haven't fully realised it yet.

When the Oduduwa narrative was created by former Yoruba freed slaves, their inferiority complex got the better of them and decided to make the claim that he was from Egypt because they thought it was more better if he was a foreigner and Ife was not good enough to be his original birth place.

In late 1890s, Sultan Bello of Sokoto capitalized on this error and claimed Oduduwa was from Saudi Arabia, this allowed his Fulani caliphate to first Islamize Ilorin and more than the rest of Yoruba land.

By linking the Oba of Benin to Oduduwa, the Oba of Benin also capitalise on the foreign origin by linking him to Ekaladerhan because neither Egypt nor Saudi Arabia have any record of Oduduwa.

The two popular accounts of Oduduwa origin is Benin and Saudi Arabia but Yoruba eyewitness written history only began in 1826 and have to rely on Benin written history which is much older to date Oduduwa to the 1100s, 700 years before Yoruba written history began.

If the Benin play the political history of Oduduwa right, they will always be on top of the narrative.

If I were to advise the Benin Palace, I will advise that they should even enlarge the annual Oduduwa celebrations by inviting selected Yoruba obas to participate.

We should know our history and be able to play politics at the same time. This is why less than 5 million Fulanis are dominating the entire Nigeria with population of over 200 million.

gregyboy:
Yea i know the politcs behind it, i personally unraveled it, here on Nairaland

But the truth must be let it out first before anything

If we keep silent and play along the politcs we will join the elite fooling everyone and endup distorting our history beyound itself....

There be more harm if we keep silent

I just want to go with the enlightenment before anything else, let the people decide if thdy wsnt to olay d politcs after hearing the truth

I get your point, both can be done at the same time by finding clever ways of putting things in their proper historical and political perspectives. When the need arises, we should be able to separate history from politics and at the same time also play politics if we are call upon.

The way I deal with my fellow Benin is to simply point to them that Oduduwa, Ooni, ife and Oranmiyan were not mentioned in Benin written history between 1400s to late 1800s, a period of 400 years, this is usually enough to get them thinking.

Don't forget we all once believed the Oduduwa narrative to be true until it was pointed out that it was a recent narrative which made alot of us to research more into our history. A gentle approach is usually enough otherwise you will lose your audience, and if you do, your message is lost.

gregyboy:
I get your point my fear is distortion on our dear historical past

You know what it took us last year to find the truth, when we were on our phones 24hrs debating this particular topic we went from arguing from the myth to seeing the actual truth and accepting it

And i took it to myself to enlighten people am not going to do it forever

I just want the edos to know ghe truth and then they can decided to choose to accept the political play,
Fooling the people blindly is something i wont support

The palace should come clean about this fact


Am attacking the fezz guy, because he attacked me first with dirty statement

Atlesst i have a reserved happiness our oba is not of any yoruba blood and if he was i wpuld also have no choice to happy and defend the truth thats who i am

We shouldn't loose our authentic history and at same time should be able to play politics.

When the Europeans first visited Nigeria in the 1400s, they met the Oba of Benin as the most powerful ruler, up till and beyond 1826.

When the British finally arrived the hinterland of Yoruba in 1826 they met the Alaafin as the leader of the Yoruba people. The Alaafin told the British that he still relied on the Oba of Benin for military assistance.

Between 1826 to 1960 the Ooni was politically created, Oduduwa was used to link the Oba of Benin and Yoruba obas together with the Ooni being elevated above the Alaafin and the Oba of Benin in the western region by those that thought they were clever.

The Oba of Benin has been fighting back since then.

What is going on with the Oduduwa narrative is war of information/misinformation that we most not allow the Yoruba to win.

Discuss authentic history whilst at the same time keep your eyes on the politics.

gregyboy:
There is all things wrong with it, if he doesn't say his a myth so the people would what he is celebrating or they are celebrating

Atleast we kniw father Christmas are mythical figures but we celebrate them

But the edo people are believing Oduduwa was real and are celebrating it for such reasons which shouldn't be.....

As the Oduduwa narrative gains ground, Benin whose history is linked with it most take ownership of the narrative for future generations. You can't leave it in the hands of the Yorubas. Oduduwa political history was designed to steal Benin history.

We were told christianity was started in Israel by a jew called jesus christ. The Romans who saw the future 2000 years ago decided to use their power and influence to take ownership of christianity, that is why the Pope, a European has always been the holiest Christian and the vertical the head of christianity. Even the Jews that should ordinarily own christianity are vilified as the ones that killed Jesus.

There is politic is everything, religion, history etc. Those that are clever enough to take early ownership of such political processes are those that will reap the future benefit. Imagine how much Rome/vertical earns today from tourism and from Catholic churches across the world, the catholic church remains the most powerful, richest and most influential Christian denomination in the world because their early leaders were visionary that saw the future and took ownership of a Jewish made religion and prophet.

The political history of Oduduwa is a competition between the Oba of Benin and Ooni of Ife, the price is millions of devoted followers who are currently being social engineered to believe the narrative, fairytale or not.

This is similar to how major religious were formed.

The Benins should know their history and at the same time not give grounds to any group/tribes to create a political history out of Benin authentic history and then take ownership of it to the detriment of our future generations.

I am sure if you get the politics of it the way I do, you will not be so vexed. See it as a win win, it doesn't stop you from researching into the authentic history of Benin. The Benin have an unparalleled advantage over anyone else in Nigeria when it comes to history, we have to be tactical about it otherwise others will steal it through the back door. We have to be watchful.

Have you not noticed how the wind have been taken away from TAO11 and her Yoruba compatriot sails/arguments.

fregeneh:
Maybe you should tell me what time your fabricated ekaladiran existed

You too have no date for the Oduduwa you are claiming. Why are you complaining that the Oba of Benin wants to celebrate Oduduwa he believes to be a Benin prince. The Oba of Benin is not stopping any other Yoruba oba from doing similar celebrations if they believe he was their progenitor.

fregeneh:
Benin history revisionist are fraudsters. from ekelederan to izoduwa to imadoduwa..etc etc but from all this fraudulent names they can't name their newly inferiority induce invented festival after any of those previous fraudulent names but after Yoruba precious oduduwa,the Benin's are just convetously after the personality of great oduduwa of Yoruba's noting more noting less.

If you are claiming Oduduwa as great Yoruba personality, could you please tell us what time in history he existed, TAO11 and other Yorubas have been unable to answer this simple question, maybe you can. Mind you your eyewitness written history only began in 1826.

You sound pained that the Oba of Benin is celebrating Oduduwa who he believes was a Benin prince. You all are going to learn new things.

IDENNAA:
Whenever I see Yoruba and Bini arguing I amazes me because the two are from the same pack it just happens that Edo broke off and formed a different identity, shikena. The Bini are probably a splinter group who moved East and formed a new identity with aboriginals. This is common sense but I guess common sense can be rare sometimes. Africans are so uncivilized including my own Igbo people.

We fight over senseless things like who invented the Oba title.

It's people like you that gives Igbo bad name, you are the reason people regards Igbo people as people without history hence are unable to understand and comprehend historical narratives.

History is not guess work of maybe Benin was a splitter group from Yoruba as your wishful thinking led you. If you have been paying attention and comprehend the various historical debates here on nairaland, you would have realised that there was no one tribe called Yoruba in Nigeria until recently. What we now have as Yoruba is amalgamation of various former independent warring states into one entity with the Yoruba identity.

When the Europeans visited the Nigeria space in the 1400s, they met on ground various independent groups such as the Benin, Itsekiri, lucumi and later the Egbas and Ijebus amongst others. The more powerful independent state like Benin dominated and ruled over their neighbours.

There were no such tribe called Yoruba that Benin seperated from. The Yoruba of today is recent creation and not all are still comfortable with such identify, you would have heard the Ijebus tracing their roots to Sudan. The Ijebus like the Igbos that sees themselves as Biafra will not waste any time of going their separate ways if the opportunity is given to dismantle this British force marriage called Nigeria.

davidnazee:
Your argumentative disorder has no cure lol. I told u before you will continue to argue Edo history for a long time..

Benin history have a way of getting into some people's head and becomes a lifelong obsession, poor TAO11, she has bought a market for life. She is going to be arguing Benin history with no end, constantly looking for where Benin is mentioned, to jump in, it doesn't matter if it concerns her or not.

Fezz:
Samuk.. you and I reason alike. You just hit the nail on the head again. I agree with you completely. Please lecture him some more because he derails the thread most times with his assumptions. I have tried but I don't know if he ever listens. I know he's youngot and full of energy and I like that about him.

I have seen Davidnazee try to correct him as well but he's not paying attention to details. Lol

Now that the Oba of Benin have told the world that Oduduwa was a Benin prince, you can see how uninterested and deflated TAO11 and her Yoruba people have become on the Oduduwa Benin connection. They are now even calling the story a lie. TAO11 know the Yoruba can't argue history or myths with the Benins, they just don't have the historical authority to do so.

You can see how insulting TAO11 has become because the Oba of Benin have beaten them to their games. This is the point gregyboy should understand, the politics of history. Gregyboy still see history on a straight line, with time, he will develop a bird's eye view, 360 degrees and future views of history.

The Oba of Benin and his chiefs are smart people, Benin people are generally smart people otherwise they couldn't have controlled, ruled and influenced people with larger populations for over 500 years.

Whatever the the narrative on Oduduwa, Benin will always have the upper hand because Yoruba don't and cannot date it earlier than late 1800s, they will always rely on Benin historical dates on Oduduwa story.

If the Yoruba want to argue Oduduwa, historical or myths, they cannot do so earlier than late 1800s without referencing Benin. If they decide to argue against it and say the story is a fabrication, it will take nothing away from Benin already established history. Anyhow it is view, Benin will always be their elder, head or tail Benin wins any historical contest between Benin and Yoruba.

Fezz:
Hey Samuk, thanks for your contribution. You have said it all. I told them earlier that I don't argue unecessarily. I pass across my message and I move on. You are knowledgeable. Cheers Bro!

They should ask themselves why the terracotta heads or bronze heads of the oba doesn't show these yoruba tribal marks. It's all fallacy. Revisionist at work again. Lol

The Yoruba created and have been seriously working on their political history since late 1800s and the annexation of Benin history through Oduduwa is their target, there is nothing wrong if the Oba of Benin find a way to beat them to their game. Gregyboy is a young man full of energy and as he grows older he will understand the politics of history and the history of politics and know how to situate and present them without causing offence.

As established as European history there are myths, mythical figures, political histories and actual eyewitness historical accounts, historians always find a way of putting things in their proper perspectives.

Halloween and father Christmas are some of the myths and fairytales of Europe that are still being celebrated across the world. If the Oba of Benin decided to celebrate Oduduwa who he believes was a Benin prince, there is nothing wrong with it.

Fezz:
You are just blabbing without making any sense. You think writing long sermons will cover your emptiness. I asked a simple question and you are giving me long epistles. What is the name of the title given to Oduduwa during his reign?..

It is the yorubas that gave oba N'edo the appellations, stop lying.

Regarding the tribal mark, I have no clue what you are talking about. You are just trying to make a fuse out of nothing. Name the obas that have Yoruba tribal marks and let's see pics if possible, or did you see Yoruba tribal marks on Oba N'edo Ewuare ii face ?

I'm not here to argue. I just make my points and move on. I don't have time for unecessary jargons.

How can oba of Benin have Yoruba tribal marks when Benin is centuries older than any Yoruba kingdom. It should be the other way round. A son can only copy from his ancestors not an ancestor coming from the the grave to copy from his great grandson. Benin is too older than Yoruba to copy anything from them.

Benin empire controlled, ruled and influence most part of southern and middle belt Nigeria for over 500 years and 400 years of it was documented. It came to an end in 1897, baby kingdoms were born and created from it's ashes and remnants. These babies are now trying to turn history on it's head forgetting that Benin history was actually written and can't be changed. It's too late for any fabrications to be taken seriously by serious historians.

Yoruba is a corruption of Yarriba which the Hausas called the Oyo and some people of south western Nigeria in the 1800s. Yoruba like Igbo are relatively young names In the history of this place now called Nigeria.

Benin written history started in the 1400s while Yoruba eyewitness history started in 1826, a 400 years gab. What's there to debate with them in historical terms.

If the Oba of Benin says anything or hold any position, mythical or not, no any Yoruba Oba have the historical authority to contradict him, they all know it. On what historical leg are they going to stand on to challenge the Oba of Benin position.

There is nothing Benin copied from anyone else, it was others that copied from Benin over 500 years influence.

The Yoruba created and have been seriously working on their political history since late 1800s and the annexation of Benin history through Oduduwa is their target, there is nothing wrong if the Oba of Benin a way to beat them to their game. Gregyboy is a young man full of energy and as he grows older he will understand the politics of history and the history of politics and know how to situate and present them without causing offence.

As established as European history there are myths, mythical figures, political histories and actual eyewitness historical accounts, historians always find a way of putting things in their proper perspectives.

Halloween and father Christmas are some of the myths and fairytales of Europe that are still being celebrated across the world. If the Oba of Benin decided to celebrate Oduduwa who he believes was a Benin prince, there is nothing wrong with it.

TAO11:
Samuk: Tao I challenge you to answer so&so, and as such teach me so&so.

Me: [Presents detailed schooling and devastating refutation of his illusions — free of charge ]

Samuk: [With a heavy heart and bitterness]

Greg, let’s pretend she didn’t answer my questions.

Me: [ Laughing carelessly at Sam the laughingstock]

Scroll up a bit to see your life.

I can satisfactorily say at this junction that the job to expose you as fraud is complete.

Benin eyewitness written historical accounts started in the 1400s, whilst the Alaafin of Oyo received his first European visitor in 1826. 1826 was the year the Europeans first step foot into the hinterland of Yoruba and started documenting your history after documenting Benin history for 400 years.

You should consider yourself privilege that any Benin person would even come down from their 400 years high horse to start having chat with you because there is nothing really to debate between Benin and Yoruba.

You have now been told by the Oba of Benin that your almighty mythical Oduduwa was a Benin prince. Let see how a baby will argue history with his/her 400 years old ancestor.

To some mischievous and gullible Igbo around here, be guided. There are numerous communities across Igbo land that traces their roots to Benin, hence the reason we don't get too hard on you guys.

Benin remains the ancestors of southern and part of middle belt Nigeria. Benin history was written since 1400, Yoruba earliest date was 1826.

Benin don't discuss made up fairytales that started in late 1800s but written history dating back to the 1400s.

End of discussion, you can now go and look for your historical mates to play with.

gregyboy:
The truth is ife wss not the origin of Oduduwas narrstivr, it was samuel who invented Oduduwa and not ife


Ife worshiped ifa in peace untill samuel johson formed it in his story book and was later accepted by awolowo and ooni after 1914

Any serious historian knows that Yoruba have been making up fairytales as history since Samuel Johnson.

I just gave TAO11 an opportunity to show us Yoruba history that wasn't made up stories since the 1800s, but as expected he/she failed woefully. Benin history have no place being discussed alongside Yoruba fairytales.

TAO11:
Lol. Yorubas didn’t give Benin kings any appellation. The Yoruba appellation of the Benin kings were collected by Europeans writing from Benin.

Few questions for you.

1. Which Europeans writing from Benin, collected the Yoruba appellation of the Benin kings, was it the pre-1808 (1440 - 1897) Europeans writings or the post-1897 European (British) writing?

2. Can you cite us the earliest date in Yoruba history that Oduduwa was referred to as an actual human being other than a myth, if you can show us a date earlier than 1800, I will go on self imposed exile from nairaland for 6 months

3. 1826 was the first time the Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba and they met the Alaafin as the leader of the Yoruba people, can you show us any date earlier than 1826 when the Ooni was referred to as the leader of the Yoruba people.

4. If you can't show us any date earlier than 1826, when was the first time the Ooni assumed the leadership position of all Yoruba, was this based on history or politics.

The point of my questions is to show that Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts is not ealier than 1800s. Yoruba have been making up lies as history since the late 1800s which is completely different from what early Europeans who visited Yoruba land witnessed.

To the dumb**s Julius, how can Benin whose eyewitness historical accounts is more than 400 years older than Yoruba be a subgroup of Yoruba.

Only eyewitness historical accounts will be accepted, no insults as a way to avoid the questions.

Cheers.

I saw your eyewitness reference to Benin country and great Benin.

Please could you also show us the earliest eyewitness reference to Ooni as the leader of the Yoruba people.

Christistruth00:
Does that mean the Oyo Army was not garrisoned at Porto Novo on the Coast in 1774 after driving the Dahomians from the Town ?

Who do you think Oyo Sold Slaves to at Badagry and Porto Novo Sea Ports ?

Are you one of those People who believes that Black History didn’t exist till the Whites arrived to confirm it ?

You are asking questions you should be answering. What I expected from you is very simple, tell us who Oyo sold slaves to at Port Novo Sea Ports and provide us the source for your claims.

What I am asking is very simple, provide your eyewitness sources, by this way, people just can't wake up and start making claims that can't be backed up.

Mind you, I am not saying Oyo didn't sell slaves, I am only asking for references to this part of Oyo history and the sources have to be first hand accounts.

If I were to make the claim that Benin empire once extended to Egypt, would you not demand for prove or just admit it as true.

Christistruth00:
Go and find out the year Oyo Army took over Badagry and Porto Novo Sea Ports

That will open your eyes.

You are the one making the claims, you need to show us the eyewitness historical evidence the way I have provided my sources for the first European visit to Oyo in 1826.

We no longer allow fairytales, you can't make an unsubstantiated claims and ask me to go and find the evidence.

Make your claims and provide the eyewitness evidence. This is how TAO11 lies and fairytales were shutdown.

Christistruth00:
The Europeans at the Coast heard about the defeat of the Ashanti by Oyo from the Ewe and Dahomey who were involved and had Sea Ports

The battle of Atakpame is a very important part of Ashanti History ask any of them.

Oyo and Dahomey defeated them at that time Dahomey was still a tributary of the Alaafin of Oyo

The Ashanti deposed their King Nana Kusi Obodom after their defeat.

It was an important turning Point in their History.

By 1774 When Aare Oona Kakanfo Oyabi and Alaafin Abiodun killed Basorun Gaa , Oyo had already Won Badagry and Port Novo Sea Ports from the Dahomey after Dahomey rebelled against Oyo and European Sailors traded with Oyo at those Ports.


Aare Oona Kakanfo Oyabi and his Army were garrisoned at the Port Town of Porto Novo which Yorubas called Ajase before 1774
That was where Alaafin Abiodun went to in disguise in order to Plot with Oyabi the downfall of Basorun Gaa.

You can see that by 1774 the Oyos were in full control of and trading directly with the Europeans at Badagry and Porto Novo Sea Ports.

Which Oyo traded with European in 1774. The first time the Oyo people and the Alaafin set their eyes on the white man was in 1826, read the eyewitness accounts of the encounter.

Journal of a second expedition into the interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo
Book by Hugh Clapperton.

The book was first published in 1829.

Read from page 38. The Alaafin told the British that visited in 1826 that they have heard about the white man but that was the first time they were seeing one, his forefathers never saw the white man. When was the book you are quoting from written? And by whom.

macof:
You are the one suffering psychological issues. A 1911 document that can't be verified.. It can't be accessed, no author named.. Only one sentence visible..saying a one time unnamed alaafin paid Tribute to Benin. If this is what you call eye witness account then you are mad.

You talk about eye witness accounts, when you have eye witnesses who attest to witnessing the alaafin pay tribute mention them not a 1911 document that doesn't even mention the name of the Alaafin who paid the tribute, and certainly not a document that has no named author and only a snippet view

Here is the title, goggle it. I have provided the relevant passage to support my eyewitness accounts.

Like I said before, the first time the Europeans visited Oyo was in 1826. I have also provided an account of what they found on ground. I have also supported my points with eyewitness sources.

Journal of a second expedition into the interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo
Book by Hugh Clapperton.

The book was first published in 1829.

Copy and paste it on Google. Page 41 contains my first quote from the book, read it for the rest because you guys don't like reading but dwells on fairytales.

A brief biography of Hugh Clapperton.

After serving in the Royal Navy in Canada, Hugh Clapperton (1788-1827) participated in two expeditions to the interior of Africa. Richard Lander (1804-34), a young Cornishman who had travelled widely in the service of previous employers, applied to accompany him on the second expedition, during which Clapperton died. Lander published this edition of Clapperton's journal in 1829; an expanded version (also available in this series) appeared the following year. Clapperton's account of his experiences is informal, lively and vivid, describing hospitality and annoyances, discomforts and pleasures. Although its language and attitudes are typical of the early colonial period, it remains a valuable source for West African history. The book also contains a short biography of Clapperton, Lander's emotional account of his master's illness and death, and his journal of his lonely return journey. The appendix includes meteorological observations, notes on Arabic documents, and Yoruba vocabulary.

Christistruth00:
Oyo defeated the Asanti of Ghana in the Battle of Atakpame in Togo in 1764.

The first Europeans didn't visit Oyo until 1826. 1826 was the first time the Europeans visited and started documenting Oyo history.

So how can you back up your 1764 date?

If you say the Ghanaians told you this, could Ghanaians read and write in 1764 to document this war, if so please provide the eyewitness historical sources.

If this date didn't come from the Ghanaians, was it documented by Europeans and please provide the European eyewitness sources.

People dishing out cock and bull stories as history is no longer allowed, you make a claim, you will be requested for eyewitness historical sources.

Have you not noticed that TAO11 has been missing from here for days now because she can't meet this simple requirement.

UGBE634:
The fact is that their attempt to subdue Benin will not and has not been working for them. We are not illiterate they will throw anything at and we will take it, majority of Benins are now schooled and we know our history more than anything else now. The world knows if there was anything like a true and pristine empire that ran as an independent country in terms of organization, structure and international relations in the south of Nigeria, it is definitely the Benin country and empire. These Barbarians are envious of our history and they are trying to subvert it, it will not work,not this 21century. DOMO

You are very correct. These guys can hardly provide any eyewitness historical accounts to backup their lies, fabrications and fairytales earlier than 1800s.

Benin is not their mate, our eyewitness historical accounts are dated back to the 1400s.

UGBE634:
My brother, that is their forte, they glory in it

My brother, I am sometimes amazed by these people's barefaced ignorance, he asked for an eyewitness account, I provided it with a link, the guy still rather wallow in his ignorance.

The narrative was from the person that visited the Alaafin.

macof:
Lol so much ignorance
Imagine this guy feeling himself so much in ignorance

It's impossible to even begin to teach you anything when you have jumped into conclusion on the entire Yoruba history with only two sentences. So ridiculous

First of all about the 1911 document : I thought we were talking about eye witness accounts?? Provide the eye witness account please not a 1911 unclarified document claiming what happened with an unnamed predecessor

Secondly about Hugh Clapperton's work : "He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war." this does not in any context mean Oyo paid tribute to Benin

I am trying to restrain myself right now, do you guys suffer from the same selective amnesia?

This is the link below, read it or are you claiming you can't open it. I doubt if you know the meaning of the words you use. Read and tell us if you are not the ignorant person here.

This is the direct qoute, starting with I in the first person. It's an eyewitness accounts not a work by anyone else. The rest of the qoute that talk about Alaafin informing the British governor that his predecessor paid tributes to Benin is in the link.

"In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

macof:
I thought you said you had eye witness account bloody clowns
An unavailable document from 1911 is your eye witness

Below is the link to the qoute from the British governor that visited the Alaafin of Oyo.

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

Notice from the article that the Ooni haven not be elevated above the Alaafin yet at the time of the British governor's visit, as the Alaafin was referred to here as the head of the Yoruba people.

After operating with Benin for 400 years, 1400 -1800. The Yoruba hinterland became civilised enough for the Europeans to ventured into and the first European visit to Oyo was in 1824. They met the Alaafin of Oyo as the leader of the Yoruba people, not the Ooni. Ife was a small village and the Ooni was just a chief priest or babalawo.

The political elevation of the Ooni from chief priest to head of the Yoruba nation was to come later and started in the 1930s. Even up till the 1950s when Nigeria traditional and political leaders were invited to London conference to discuss the independence of Nigeria, the Ooni was still being referred to by the British press as the spiritual leader of the Yoruba people not the most senior king. It was Awolowo as leader of the western region that completed relegated the Alaafin to second place.

Another thing to notice from the direct qoute from the British governor that visited the Alaafin is that the Alaafin referred to the Oba of Benin as his friend not his brother. The latter political history that the Oba of Benin, the Alaafin of Oyo and Ooni of Ife are same brothers from Oduduwa is another lie this encounter disproved.

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo

Some of you that don't know your history of the 1900s are trying to tell Benin history of pre-1800s.

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

macof:
lol these Bini miscreants no go kill person with laugh

Below is the eyewitness historical evidence. When you are done reading, go and look for your mate to play with.

Anyway, the statement from Clapperton:

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

Christistruth00:
The Asanti of Ghana once paid tribute to the Alaafin of Oyo after loosing the battle of Atakampe in Togo in 1764.

Today Ashanti are 100% independent

and Alaafin is not dragging their Gold rich Land with them.

Alaafin is also not dragging Land with the Ga tribe of Accra Ghana nor Ewe of Togo and Ghana,they were all once under him.but today their Land is theirs,

Even Porto Novo Capital of Benin Republic and Badagry belonged to the Alaafin of Oyo but today they are fully independent nobody is dragging their God Given Lands

The Alaafin of Oyo once paid tributes to Benin, is Benin dragging land with the Alaafin of Oyo?

Christistruth00:

This is the rest of the Video that you were hiding

For the one thousandth time oba of lagos himself telling you with his own mouth at 5.45 Minutes "Benin are not the owners of lagos” in the complete video you refused to post.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno


lagos belongs to Awori Yoruba who are 100% Yoruba or is MC Oluomo who is Awori not Yoruba again?

I didn't know MC Oluomo owns Lagos, I thought the video was about Oba of Lagos Benin ancestral lineage.

Christistruth00:
From what you have written it is obvious that Ologbo belongs to the Itsekiri

Any Culture that calls a group of People TENANTS after 500 years of settlement in a Place and that is threatening to drive them out is desperately faulty and needs a Complete Overhaul it is not done anywhere on Earth.
God himself will fight that Nation .

Even the black Americans who were exported to the US as Slaves are not called Tenants they have long become American Citizens.

From what you wrote alone it is obvious Ologbo belongs to Itsekiri.

If it were not so they would have been Edonised by now both in Language and Culture, by now the Ologbo Itsekiri would have been speaking Edo and bearing Edo names.

500 years ago the People of Ogbomosho were Baribas it didn’t take 300 years for them to become completely Yoruba not through War but by everyday interaction with Yorubas.

How long should it take a tenant to become the landlord of a place when the landlord is still very much alive? You mentioned black Americans in USA, are you aware the black despite their population only controls and own about 0.5 percent of American economic and less participation in governance. Even in areas they are allowed to rule, how much of the land belongs to them.

Ologbo belongs to Benin, the Itsekiri have been living there peacefully until recently when one of them who is now facing multiple murders charges wanted to overreach his boundaries and became ungrateful to his benevolent landlord.

Benin of ancient times encourages all within her rule to maintain their various dialects, Benin wasn't interested in forcing a common language on everyone, if they did the entire south would have long be speaking one language before the British came to give you guys voices.

Every land in Nigeria is owned by someone, if you are given a portion of land to settle in, it doesn't gives you the right to appropriate the surrounding areas which was not given to you to yourself, if you want to expand, you can request for more or buy from the landlord.

The Igbos that are now settled in Lagos were not given free lands, they bought them, unless they buy up an entire community they will not become the omonile of that particular part of Lagos, no matter how long they settle there.

The Igbos in Lagos can't just wake up one day and forcefully appropriate an entire area of Lagos to themselves on the account that they have settled there for something and appoint themselves a ruler over that Lagos land.

Ologbo belongs to Edo otherwise it would have been part of Delta state and all lands in Edo south were Ologbo is situated, traditionally belongs to the Oba of Benin which are administered by the various traditional heads appointed in that areas by the Oba of Benin.