₦airaland Forum

Truthshots:
Nobody migrated from Ife, actually Ife was a small village until 1912 when the British started urbanizing it. The palace of the Oni of Ife was a dirty shrine until the 1930's when the current structure was built. All this legend around Ife is just a stupid story which all started in the 1930's. Lack of education is the only reason why some Nigerians are still talking about these cock and bull stories.
The Oni of IFA is a native doctor who the British propped up since he was ready to slave himself to them.

These guys are not tired of their duck and bull stories. Oyo which the Yoruba like to tell us was an empire didn't receive Europeans visitors until 1826. The Alaafin of Oyo even told the white man how his predecessors paid tributes to Benin and rely on the Oba of Benin and Benin war machine to protect him and his people from their neighbours.

After the British displaced Benin in 1897, the Yorubas quickly replaced Benin with the British for their protection and became the stooge they became until the British handed over to the Hausa/Fulani. The Yoruba once again deceive their Igbo rivals into war in other to become Hausa/Fulani stooge.

The Yoruba were once under Benin, then British and now Hausa/Fulani.

Truthshots:
In a sense, the Yoruba slave descendants are a lot like the Fulani:

1) they do not originate from our region
2) their ancestors were slaves
3) they hijacked the land, the history and political life of the region in which they live
4) they are total sell outs to an ethnic group which they see as their master ( in case of fulanii, it is whites and Arabs but mostly Arabs, in the case of Yoruba slave descendants it is whites and fulani)

You can now see why Nigeria have been unable to make meaningful progress. Those whose ancestors are foreigners have little allegiance to the nation and the original owners of the land who would have done a better job at governing the country are being conspired against.

The struggle between these two groups will inevitably lead to the restructuring of the country, those that want to siphon their region and people's wealth to Dubai, Europe and America can continue to do so while those that want to use their regions resources for development of their land and people are also allowed to do so.

Fezz:
There is something I have noticed about the yorubas on nairaland, you all wanthe to be involved in the glory that Benin Kingdom attained for itself in the past, honestly speaking this is not a good reputation from you guys.

All the wars that Benin Kingdom won and all the places they conquered, the yorubas now want to claim all that glory by attaching themselves to Benin by saying the Oba is from ife. But little do you know that the Oba of Benin is way much smarter than you all combined.

As long as the Oba of Benin announced publicly that Oduduwa is a Benin prince, it only means that all yoruba royal stools originated from Benin Kingdom. In other words, no Benin man or (Edo people) believe that they are connected to yoruba land because the obas word is final.

So stop wasting your time on nairaland trying to convince people on how supreme the yorubas are because the benins would always see themselves as having a more supreme history in comparison to the yorubas. It's all written down in their history books and you can't change the truth.

Don't mind the small boys and girls on nairaland. Benin made history for centuries and it was well documented. Those running around here on nairaland are only entertaining us. In their small minds, they think the nonsense they write here are more valuable knowledge than centuries old priceless documented Benin history.

It's only the ignorant here that doesn't know that the name Benin/Edo existed centuries before the name Yoruba was used as a group name for various people of now western Nigeria and centuries before the Name Igbo was coined to identify the people of eastern Nigeria.

It's only in Nigeria you see baby kingdoms saying they are fathers to an empire/kingdom that is centuries older than theirs.

In the history of the world, the name Benin is far more established than Yoruba or Igbo, why will Benin want to condescend to being Yoruba.

The name Benin is so established in world history that various international entities and bodies are named after her, such as the bight of Benin, an international body of water running through the coastline of west Africa. Even a country that have some Yoruba speaking people even adopted the name as their country name, Benin Republic, just to mention a few.

When these people are telling us their Oduduwa story, they always conveniently avoid the part that the present Oba told the Ooni, Emir of Kano, Sultan of Sokoto, Obi of Onitsha and several others who were present at his coronation that Oduduwa was a Benin prince that founded Ife.

Benin, like Rome, Egypt and Greece will always be historically senior to their neighbours, no amount of revisionist can change this fact. In the case of Benin the seniority is over 400 years.

Truthshots:
According to a report which I read, the Oba of Benin was buried in or around his palace in Benin city (the palace back then was as big as a whole town).

Benin actually know where their Obas and great women of the kingdom such as Emota and queen Iden were buried. No oba of Benin was buried in Ife. The Yoruba even created two burial sites, one for female and another for Male obas of Benin. Lol

There is a saying in Benin that no one sleeps (is allowed to be buried) in Ogbe except the Oba.

Fezz:
Come to think of it, in respect to the oba of benins heads being buried in ife, does it mean in the 400 years existence of Europeans staying in Benin Kingdom, they where never told by the benin people even for once that such rituals takes place each time an oba passes on. In other words the Europeans never heard ofrom such anot important event for 400 years. This begs for questioning because its obvious the benins never had such a sacred relationship with the Yorubas. I wonder what TAO thinks of this, because such important events should never be left out in writing if it truly happened.

Concerning restructuring of the Midwest, I outlined my view on the best way to solve this issue to unit the south south region as one entity, and best person to handle such a fit is the oba of Benin, because the south south will be ripped apart by the South East and South West if care is not taken when the divide eventually comes. I wrote this in one of my earlier comments.

Oba of Benin being buried in Ife is another lie. European actually witness the death of Benin oba and the events surrounding one of such deaths was recorded and no mention of Ife.

oz4real83:
always ignore nonsense like this post when u see it. That is exactly what I always do. Anybody who had a bad night like OP can wake up and create a rubbish post like this.

It goes to show the importance of Benin. Write anything, no matter how absurd and nonsensical, just add Benin to it, you get noticed.

After telling us that Oba of Benin use to pay homage to Nri, the Op showed us a photo with the inscription Oba Nri, a woman and a man standing, is the attached photo evidence of the visitation of Oba of Benin to Nri? If yes whom amongst the man and woman on the photo was the Oba of Benin that visited Nri, if no, what relevance was the photo to the story Op is telling?

Fezz:
I'm sorry to say, but this doesn't add up. For over 400 years that the Europeans wrote down the history of the benins, the word "ife" never came up once in connection with the Benin Kingdom. Why did this document come up in 1903 after the colonial system was already taking shape. This document was probably fabricated for political reason during the colonial era.

You are solidly on point. Any further debate is a waste of time. The European did Benin a great favour by leaving us 400 years written eyewitness historical accounts which aid us in disproving any modern day forgery, fallacies and fabrications that are based on politics and not history. Benin are probably the only people that can detect these frauds due to these earlier documents, others are not so lucky.

When Ooni and other traditional rulers visited London in the 1950s to discuss the matter of independence, he was reported by British press as the spiritual head of some 3 million Yoruba people, he wasn't reported as the king. There is great difference between a king of a people and the chief priest or spiritual head of the people.

You are right, it was when Awolowo became the premier of western region he consolidated both the position of the spiritual head and most senior western Nigeria king into one and the Ooni was the beneficiary. That was not the only confusion or abuse of power Awolowo did, he also created problems in Warri by elevating the Olu of Itsekiri to Olu of the entire Warri amongst several others of abuse of his power.

The Oba of Benin and his other Delta people saw the handwriting on the wall and pulled all strings to get out of the western region as soon it was possible, only three years after independence. Mid Western people remains the only people in Nigeria that were able to archive this fit.

Now that it appears that some sort of restructuring of Nigeria is inevitable, we must be wearing and on our guard against those our neighbours that are drawing their future Oduduwa or Biafra maps to include Edo and Delta communities.

Edo and Delta have no relationship with either the west or the east, everyone must stay in their region.

[quote author=TAO11 post=100267912][/quote]If Lagos or Eko can be found in Benin history as early as 1603, why should we be unable to find Ife considering the significant relationship Ife was supposed to have with Benin in the same period.

It is purely logical question to ask.

Fezz:
This makes perfect sense. This triggered the oba of Benin to create the Midwest

The Yorubas couldn't keep to the gentle man agreement. If the Benin throne was actually related to Ife, there wouldn't have been the need to pull out of the Western region.

,

Fezz:
But I guess awolowo spoilt this plan when he elevated the ooni status to number one on the list.. Lol

Tribalism got the better of then Yoruba elites , the reason the Oba of Benin lead mid west out of the western region in 1963.

TAO11:
People dispute granular details such as why did so-and-so happen.

We don’t dispute details such as was there a civil war or not.

We are disputing if there was Benin/Ife relationship prior to 1800s because Ife is not mentioned in Benin history prior to 1800s. It's safe to say there is no written eyewitness evidence to backup Benin/Ife relationship before 1800s. If you have such written evidence, we are waiting.

Fezz:
Hmmm, you are making good points and I agree with you here. It's quite hard to imagine that no account of benin/Ife relationship was penned down by the Europeans for 400 years. That's a long time Bro, especially in the context that Ife was assumed to be a major Kingdom at that time. This raises a lot of questions as regards to the authenticity of benin/Ife connection.

Ife, the supposed father of Benin wasn't mentioned at all for 400 years of Benin eyewitness documented history. Every other places far and near were mentioned, from Warri to Lagos but Ife the supposed ancestral home land is missing.

Just Imagine the lies and nonsense.

Fezz:
If you are to put it this way, would you then suggest that if the Europeans didn't show up on the shores of Benin that equivocally means that the Benin empire never existed in the absence of no written documentation

The point is without written history, events and history that are passed down by words of mouth attracts several distortions over a long time.

People are still disputing the events that lead to the civil war that only happened in 1960s in the age of written words, Imagine trying to go back few hundred years let alone a thousand years without writing.

Fezz:
You need historic backup to such stories though.. for people to believe this you need to provide proof. A lot of people believe in the ogisos, so it will be really good if there is evidence to this point you are making.

I understand that the likes of oduduwa and oranmiyan can be made up for political reasons.. but ogisos is at the heart of Benin Kingdom history. It will be difficult to shove this one off though.

The reason the Yoruba are always desperate to link Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife to Benin is because the documentation of Yoruba history started proper in the 1800s, 400 years late compared to Benin and to bridge this gap they find a way to link Ife to Benin, in modern times, after the lost of Benin empire, the Benin Palace also benefit from this arrangement because it puts the Oba of Benin above all Yoruba Obas.

The story goes like this, Oduduwa to Oranmiyan to first Oba of Benin to first Alaafin of Oyo and the Ooni is their chief priest then others. This is pure politics without historical evidence to back it up.

The Yoruba use Benin to shore up their history earlier than 1800s while the Oba of Benin retains seniority.

Fezz:
Nicely said, but can I ask you one question. If Oranmiyan was made up, who was the first oba ofor Benin and where did he come from? I want to learn something new from you

The official Benin historical version takes you through Pa Idu to the Ogisos but because nothing was written down then, most of us have started examining the history of Benin starting from what is known and working our ways backward to antiquity.

The European helped Benin history because from the 1400s when they first arrived Benin, they started documenting all aspects of our history, from the 1400s several Europeans visited Benin with some of them even staying for years, so Benin history from 1400s is very well established.

1400s backward before the Europeans arrived is in antiquity that are still being study.

If Benin had any relationship with Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan, the Europeans wouldn't have missed this aspect of Benin history, they would have written it down. For example, Benin annexation of Lagos was documented by a Dutch man who witnessed Benin presence and preeminence over Lagos in 1603.

When the Benin/Ife relationship surfaced in late 1800s, the Europeans who have been studying and writing Benin history for 400 years were the first to question the authenticity of such relationship because there was nothing of such prior to 1800s.

In trying to answer your question, we must first disprove latter day fallacy which Benin/Ife story is.

Benin/Ife relationship is nothing but political agreement between Benin and Yoruba after British conquest of the Benin empire.

Benin/Ife relationship is akin to how all Nigerians were forced together to become one, the reason the country went into civil war just 7 years after the British left.

I am still waiting for the Benin eyewitness historical documents between 1400 to 1799 that mentioned Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan specifically in relation to Benin. Anyone can dig up any dirt and create a story around such debris in the name of archaeology.

Benin Eyewitness historical documents exist from 1400s to 1799, show me Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in any of them. Lagos was mentioned from 1602 but not Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Juliusmalema:
Whether Benin prince or yoruba prince, the point is that since both agreed to existence of single entity then u all are blood.

Yorubas and Edos are same people whether the prince is from Bini or Ife.

As far as both agreed to a prince existing them case closed.

This perceived agreement only occurred in the 1800s and was purely political arrangement that wasn't based on history. There were no such agreements in the previous 400 years (1400s -1799).

I am ready to offer $10,000 US dollars to anyone that can show us where Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were written in Benin documented history before 1799.

Truthshots:
Jealousy boils hot in the veins of these people. The problem of the black race: can't stand to see his neighbour archiving any sort of success.

Benin eyewitness documented history will always be 400 years ahead of our jealous neighbours, there is nothing they can do about this, all the concoctions, and fabrications in this world can't change this.

Benin is what people use to sell their stories/history, take Benin out of this or any other history thread and see how the thread will die a natural death. Once Benin is mentioned in conjunction to any tribe history, all the excitement begins and emotions will be running high, yet someone somehow thinks the Benin will feel inferior for this.

Benin generates excitement that people just can't ignore that is why people always find a way to link Benin to their thread, no matter how absurd and senseless their linkages maybe.

Someone is already telling us that Zik's book was quoted out of context, how do you qoute a book whose passages were written verbatim out of context .

Truthshots:
Don't mind them, they are jealous, each time Benin history comes up in BBC or CNN, these jealous guys will show up online trying to vent their frustration on Benin, just ignore them.

You have said it all.

Obalatule:
Your bini people are the real comedians with your "Acknowledging" drive ......Ndi acknowledging

You are not free from yoruba people that are bent on absorbing the whole edo into yoruba with their ife story but you want to be acknowledging people all the way in onitsha

The very fact that the Yorubas are trying to claim or absorb Benin shows how successful Benin was in the past. Success have many friends and families all over the place while failure is an orphan.

Various tribes laying claims to Benin is thing of pride to us and hope you can now see why your label of inferiority complex doesn't hold water before any Benin person. How will a Benin person feel inferior when all historical roots and roads leads to Benin.

Very few tribes can write their history without the mention of Benin and in most cases such history without Benin doesn't get much attention or even noticed.

Obalatule:
[s][/s] The whole bini people are a complete waste of time if they think now is the time to be acknowledging ..... people that dont speak a single edo word you are going Around acknowledging them hoping they will come to bini and bow to your king and say " Oba ga ta kpee" or whatever Bullcrap you say, You lots are suffering from inferiority complex mixed with delusions

Guy, you are worst than the comical "adjectiver Brother Shagi" go and look for your mate to engage. It will require a Yoruba interpreter to engage you further.

Obalatule:
Onitsha speak one of the most refined igbo dailect, no trace of bini anywhere if not for few titles like iyasele which was borrowed.

Infact igala has more reasons to be acknowledging Onitsha people owing to early contact and some intermarriages between the two groups

You are a complete waste of time, you can not comprehend simple question put to you.

Obalatule:
Onitsha people are not bini people genetically, linguistically or otherwise, They were in bini as many other igbos of the western Niger until it wasn't conducive again and they left.

Stop shamelessly twisting their stories of coming from bini to mean they are your kin

Let me once again pretend that you don't have problems with English comprehension. I asked again, could you show the readers where/how any Benin person including myself twisted or wrote the history of Onitsha or any other Igbo community for that Matter.

Let me warn you that each of your reply actually reveals whether you have anything other than insults in your brain.

Obalatule:
[s][/s] You are the frustrated person here, you are also Delusional if you can't lay claim to igbanke people who are pretty much an igbo community under your nose in edo state but jump all the way across the Niger to Onitsha

Benin don't lay claim to anyone. It's the other way round. All we do is to simply acknowledge those that lay claims to Benin, nothing more. I am yet to see the version of Onitsha history that was written by Benin, if you have it, kindly share for all to read.

Obalatule:
[s][/s] Until you bini inferior minor tribe can prove that "Eze chima" is a bini name there really is no need to engage you, Onitsha people have since recognised the folly of there half baked Bini story and have chosen not to push it anymore, but bini minority looking for numbers wont rest, just one quarter in onitsha is more than the whole bini population

Benin did not write any version of Onitsha history. Take you frustration to Zik wherever he is and argue with him.

It is unfair to disparage Zik for the version of his history of Onitsha written in 1970. Those that are quick to tell us that there is no historical links between Benin and Onitsha for such historical accounts to be plausible also forget that despite the fact that the Europeans that study Benin history found no historical links or customs or traditions linking Benin with Ife in the first 400 years (1400s - 1800s) of European eyewitness documentation of of Benin history, yet some still hold on to this Benin/Ife connection that has no historical backing earlier than the 1800s as historical truth.

What is sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander.

It's hypocrisy for a Yoruba person who is ready to go to Mars and concoct all manners of names just to link Ife to ancient Benin to turn around and attempt to disprove Zik's historical accounts. I can understand such from Igbo person. The Yoruba can't be desperately linking Ife to Benin whilst at the same time making attempts to disprove the claims to Benin by other tribes, no one single tribe own the monopoly to Benin relationship/connections, ancient Benin is for all to share.

Benin/Ife relationship was created in late 1800s, Zik's Benin/Onitsha relationship was written in the 1900s and Benin and several other communities relationship across southern and Northern Nigeria are still being written and more are yet to be written, the reason being that Benin was one of the major cultural, political, military and economic centres of ancient west Africa and the most significant in the Nigeria area for centuries.

To those that continue to tell us without showing us how Zik wrote something different 40 years earlier, that version that is alleged or suggested to contradict later version of Zik's history of his Onitsha people should also be put out for all to examine.

All versions of historical accounts should be put out there for all to examine.

History of Onitsha According to - Nnamdi Azikiwe-
Prior to Nigerian independence in 1960 they were known not to have kings except perhaps for the Obi (from Oba: king) of Onitsha, hence the common saying: "Ibo enwero eze" (the Igbo has no king). Individual towns, clans and families see themselves as independent as they are very clannish. They are also known to look down on other peoples, hardly integrating with their hosts though also feigning friendliness. Not surprisingly foreigners see little motivation in investing and residing in their homeland. Indeed the name of one of their most prominent settlements, Onitsha, is said to be derived from Onini (to despise) and Ncha (others), meaning "one who despises others." Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, former Nigerian president and Igbo leader, even described the attitude as supercilious.

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha."
SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4
http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/75723-meaning-history-onitsha.html


"I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD.
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5

"One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins, "

"I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu, , " "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc,
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p 11 - 12

gregyboy:
Never knew you were this vile, bro chill

Samuk you should do well let that statement go

No need to reply him, it's obvious he has identify crisis otherwise he would not be that pained. His hate for Benin will consume him if he is not careful.

gregyboy:
This is MelesZenawi, this is, his second moniker

Really, funny people.

Juliusmalema:
You are now saying Itshekiri aren't edoid but same you said Itshekiri referred to you guys as Ile Ibinu.

Etinosa we suppose not to be going over this everyday. An average Yoruba man believed and knows Edos are their own people.

Take for instance during during the so called Nigeria youth service, Edos are grouped as Yorubas.

So what are you arguing my dear?

If Edo are grouped as Yoruba, it shows the ignorance of the Nigeria state. Nothing makes Edo Yoruba, the languages are not similar and Edo people don't see themselves as Yoruba.

If you have noticed, most people that were part of the Benin empire/kingdom are very protective of their tribes and ethnic identities, they are not fixated or carried away with the so called majority tribes identity or grouping, this is the reason an average Ika person will rather see himself as Ika and not Igbo, only the Igbo migrants amongst them and some politicians hoping to capitalise on Igbo population vote that claim Igbo. Same way the average Itsekiri don't see themselves as Yoruba. Most Ika people actually have derogatory words for Igbo, if they see themselves as Igbo, this wouldn't be so.

Within Edo state, the Benin and Esan are practically the same people, but each are proud of their identities.

Earlier on this thread, you see how MelesZenawi bullied RedboneSmith into denouncing his Igala roots to be accepted as full blooded Igbo, you guys bully people to start rewriting, whitewashing and reversing their history in other to fit in. When people live in denial and false ethic identify, it affects them psychologically. The Benin people are extremely proud of their ethnicity and don't see the need or benefit of being grouped as Yoruba or any other tribe.

Igbo and Yoruba are particularly guilty or ignorant of the different tribes in Nigeria, not everyone in Akwa Ibom and Cross River are Calabars, not everyone in northern Nigeria are Hausas.

Looping everyone together doesn't promote competition, rather it promotes mediocrity, in Nigeria, ethnic and religious affiliations are more important than competence. As small as the United kingdom, both in size and population compared to Nigeria, the different tribes, the English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh are very proud of their diversity despite living together for centuries. You guys should allow people to be who they want to be rather than looking for those to group together.