₦airaland Forum

MelesZenawi:
I mean what ogbe stands or the meaning in Bini?

I can't easily recollect what it means, it's the name of the area bordering the Oba Palace, kings square/ring road and Oba market area. someone else may know.

I know Ogbee which sounds slightly different with the double ee means family but don't know the meaning of Ogbe.

MelesZenawi:
Ogbe means what in Benin?

That word is a known igbo word...what's the meaning in Edo.

There are numerous Igbo sounding words in Benin especially in the villages, these are old Benin words and names, I hope someone more competent in their meanings will be able to explain.

I have also heard the names Oyi Idu and Izu in the Azagidi N' Urhonigbe village folklore.

TAO11:
I'm sorry about calling you dummy! I just couldn't help it at the time.

Anyways, refer back to my modified comment. I just noticed that you didn't really answer my question.

I was a step faster!

You raised the point of more than one logical possibility. It's now up to you to explain what you mean. And not maybe this, maybe that, sorts of explanations.

Please explain to me your other logical possibilities and explanations why human bones were not found in the purported burial site of Obas of Benin in Ife.

While I am waiting for your explanations...

Below is the link to Benin moat being acknowledged as the world's largest man made structure on the planet pre mechanical era in the Guinness book of world records.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=257034751865597&id=250714491773177&sfnsn=mo

TAO11:
Lol! Benin boy pretending to be a dummy as expected!

No skulls found implies more than one logical possibility:

You identified only one (of more than one possibility) yet.

Will you try all your best to be a respecter of commonsense?

Moreover learn to stay on topic!

[I will return to the Walls of China issue later, I need to deal with you completely on this first].

I will not entertain any insolent and rudeness from you, if you can't make your points without insults, you can find your mates and kinds to debate with.

If you have superior arguments and confident about them, you don't have be insulting to drive your points home.

It's usually those that have nothing meaningful to say that results to insults to mask their inadequacies and shortcomings.

TAO11:
Meaning what?

It means there were no human bones or skull found in the place in Ife you guys claimed the heads or bodies of late Obas of Benin were buried.

Most of you guys are out to diminish the greatness of Benin by making all sorts of claims and refuting even world acknowledged Benin achievements.

I have seen a thread here were some of you where questioning the fact that the Guinness book of world records recognises that the Benin moat was the world's largest earthwork pre mechanical era, four times greater than the great wall of China.

Ordinarily you expect every African to celebrate this rather than trying to reduced it to nothing.

If it was nothing, it wouldn't find it's way to the Guinness book of world records.

TAO11:
Okay, you seem to want to stand by your point.

No historian of Benin history --- worth the name ---- ever said that the whole body of the late Obas of Benin were buried in Ife.

Historians say they were buried, and then their heads "exhumed" and taken to Ife.

Do you still want to pursue this point? A saving grace!

Are you not aware that the purported site in Ife was excavated and no human bones found.

TAO11:
The best way to demonstrate someone's foolishness is to use their own words (i.e. their own most trusted source).

One thing you guys don't realise is that most people in Benin live and breath history and Benin history are mostly represented in arts and monuments that can be seen all over the places.

Imagine your fabrication of early Obas of Benin being buried in Ife, you can tell that to someone that's not Benin because most Benin know that the Oba of Benin are buried in Ogbe in Benin City and no one else is allowed that privilege

Only four Obas were not buried in Ogbe because some decreed before their death to be buried in their mothers villages, One was banished to his mother's village where he died and was buried, some of their burial sites and graves were turned into shrines which can be visited.

So which Benin Oba was buried in Ife.

gregyboy:
,

This are mere claims you know i dont dwell on claims bring prove... I want to see links maps writeup that made you draw this conclusion so we can draw it from there together

If you leave it like this there are mere clsims that remain unproven

Guy,

You have time to waste and to listen to garbage as history.

They are telling you that the Early Europeans heard about this God King in Ife as far back as the 1300s and Benin confirmed his existence in 1400s when they visited Benin, yet as curious as the early Europeans were, they didn't find their way or ask the Benin to take them to Ife to go and see this almighty God king and established a link directly with him, instead they decided to open a diplomatic relationship with a lesser Benin King to the extent of even exchanging ambassadors and sending Roman Catholic priests to Benin.

There are scarcely any early eye witness European accounts of this God king in Ife, no account of the people he ruled over, no mention of Yoruba people anywhere in the 1300s, 1400s, 1500s, 1600s 1700 by any of the European countries that visited the region now referred to as Nigeria.

You allow this baby historians to start manufacturing stories for you as history.

How all these make sense to these guys make me wonder what they smoke.

These people come to Benin in the name of studying Benin history, grabs some dates here and there, go back home and begin the process of revision to elevates their villages and hamlets.

They always have to mention Benin for their lies to sound authentic.

Benin has to be the one to tell the European how great and mighty the Ife King was, yet no historical exploit that they can point to that make Ooni so great.

Their evidence of the greatness of Ife and Ooni are,

1. The Benin told the Portuguese about one Oghene and today historians now believe that the Oghene has to be Ooni of Ife. Who are the modern day historians?

2. Oba Erediawa said so.

They also tell you that every Oba of Benin was buried in a special place in Ife, unknown to them, the Oba of Benin is the only one that is buried in Ogbe quarters in Benin, no one else is allowed for this simple reason.

Only four Oba of Benin were not buried in Ogbe for various reasons and we know where their graves are in Edo state.

Nonsense.

lx3as:
We too don't have problems with average Edo person/people but when you write about your past glory, you don't have to belittle others to make your points, if not you're looking for trouble...

I initially avoided your compatriots massaging each others egos and calling Benin people names until one of them invited me in, otherwise I would have just ignored you guys and allow you to enjoy yourselves because we the Benin are not faced by many of you and what you have to say because like I said before, we know the Omoluabi Yorubas.

lx3as:
So all the evidence and reference being posted by Omoluabi gbogbo above are not enough?
Many of us grew up with positive thoughts for Bini and her people but your lies and fake revisions have done great damage to that. You should know we're not empty and not tired to busting your lies. Continue!

Benin know the Omoluabi Yorubas and most don't engage in revisionist history and to that extent, we share cordial relationships with them. It's the fake majority that tries to shout down the voices of these Omoluabis.

gomojam:
Which ancestors? Where were they taken before they returned?

Of course you are gonna agree to her narrative because it inflated your shallow ego. Our 'compatriot' was the same as you Ignorant Benins who are not well versed in history but are quick to reeling out fairytales due to blind patriotism.

Peddle your falsehood else where; an inferior group to yours. Those who do not have strong foundation and account of history to counter your revisionist agenda, not the intellectually fitted and tactical people like the Yorubas.

Cheers.

Yes you guys are well versed in your revisionist history that you can even argue the history of Lagos monarchy with the Oba of Lagos himself.

You guys can continue arguing with yourselves and massage each others egos.

lx3as:
You're still here blabbing, instead of you to
cover your face in shame with irrelevant and
fake submissions you and your ilks gave on
public forum like this. You've been busted
badly already.
If I were you I would ponder on where Bini is today and where Yorubas are? Yorubas (and their culture and religions) have continue to expand to every angle of the world and Bini has
diminished to less than 5 local government
areas which Ijaws and others are dragging
with them. A blind and deaf can easily tell
which is great among these two and who is telling the truth.
You and your friends can continue to dance nicked in an open market, no one will beg you; we are always around...

Who is more authentic when it comes to history is not by population or land mass.

Rome is now almost just confined to the Vatican today and that doesn't mean that they didn't civilised Europe.

Rome colonised England for 400 years and we can still see their many footprints all over England and Europe.

Can you compare the size and population of England let alone the rest of Europe they once control with Rome today?

Like I said before, to engage some of you is to belittle one self.

gomojam:
Are you shivering already?

Shivering?

The Benin know that current day Yorubas are made up of the original indigines that inhabit that space and those whose ancestors were returned from Latin America, Sierra Leone after the abolition of slavery and those from Dahomey.

When we hear some of you saying, Benin never did this, Benin never did that, we understand because your ancestors may not have been returned to Nigeria from Latin America where they were cutting sugar canes and picking cottons from sugar cane and cotton plantations of Latin America.

When the Benin is reluctant to engage some Yoruba, they are just avoiding downgrading themselves because you don't know who you may be engaging because Yorubas come in different shades and colours.

Not all who claim to be Yorubas are Omo luwabi.

Some of you are the ones that argue Lagos history and history of Lagos monarchy with the Oba of Lagos.

One of your compatriots has already told you guys how Benin decimated everything around them, she may be the only true and original Yoruba indigines around here that knows her/Yoruba history, I do not expect the rest of you to know and that's fine by us because your ancestors were not around then.


You can keep arguing with yourselves.

MelesZenawi:
This is the one real load of good write up, I undoubtedly agreed to...

The scenerio was well captured...

Today the children of Awolowo are denying that it wasn't Ojukwu that released awolowo.

It may also interests you to know that it was also
reported that the Igbo military officers that planned and executed the failed coup intended to release Awolowo from prison and made him the prime minister of Nigeria because they thought Tafawa government was too corrupt.

MelesZenawi:
Biafra will happen like dreaming. Continue campaigning against it instead of supporting it.

Biafra will only happen when you stop chasing shadows and know your real enemies, as it stands, most of you can't tell your enemies from your friends.

The so called minorities are not your enemies in the south but the Yorubas.

You guys are having the same problem Ojukwu had by not being able to tell his enemy from his friends.

Ojukwu was the one that released Awolowo from Enugu prison where he was serving 10 years prison term for treason.

Ojukwu thought Awolowo will support his Biafra and it was reported that Awolowo actually promised that if the Igbos leave Nigeria the Yorubas will.

Ojukwu went into the war believing this only for Awolowo to join Gowon's government when he got to Lagos and was advising the Nigeria government on how to win the war.

One of his advice was for Gowon to introduce economic blockade of the east to stop food from getting to the Igbos, he said that you can't keep feeding your enemies to have the strength to be fighting you.

This single policy resulted in the mass starvation of the Igbos and millions died. More Igbos died from starvation than bullets and guns.

After the war Awolowo as finance minister only compensated Igbos that lost their money in Nigeria banks with 20 naira only.

When Nigeria decided to nationalised foreign owned companies, Awolowo gave his Yoruba people loans to buy the shares of those companies and the Igbos were not able because they only got 20 naira for their lost money in Nigeria banks.

The Yoruba took over Igbo political position in Nigeria and moved from the position of opposition in the 1960s to their current position and Igbos still haven't recovered since then.

So you must first identify your friends and your enemies.

I already told about the relationship between the east and mid west before the war, but Ojukwu and his Biafra decided to invade and occupied a neutral mid west rather than take the fight to his enemies.

While he was wasting time in mid west expecting Awolowo to declare Oduduwa republic, the federal troops were strategising with Awolowo help on how to defeat Biafra.

nlPoster:
It's not political correctness, it's about having manners.

However I choose to address my family members is actually none of your business.

nlPoster:
Dont call real people half blooded please, it's very rude.

Mixed is the appropriate term.

https://www.nairaland.com/5765389/dont-call-people-half-blooded

I know Nigerians hate being told to mind their utterances but you really ought to know better because I'm sure you're an adult.

If political correctness is the only issues here, no problem, point taken.

nlPoster:
Dont call real people half blooded please, it's very rude.

Mixed is the appropriate term.

https://www.nairaland.com/5765389/dont-call-people-half-blooded

I know Nigerians hate being told to mind their utterances but you really ought to know better because I'm sure you're an adult.

If political correctness is the only issue here, no problem, point taken but we will not allow our beautiful Igbo wives to become citizens of one funny yeye country that will be called Biafra.

MelesZenawi:
Audio appointment. Nobody has ever heard of such.

Secondly Benin is a federal university.

Thirdly Igbos are generally loving, cheering and friendly but you guys are full of hatred for Igbos including others like samuk.

Nna me, biko I don't hate Igbos, they are my beloved, just that it's sometimes appropriate to educate you guys, you will be surprised how many Igbo half blood nephews, nieces and cousins I have in my family, not to talk of fantastic inlaws, friends and business associates.

This is the very reason someone like me will never support Biafra break away and another war against the Igbos.

People like yourself can keep dreaming about Biafra that will never materialised.

gomojam:
Baba u go give these guys HBP fa.

Are the Igbos now calling on Yoruba to come and bail them out? Lol.

Astark:
If I'm the governor of Edo state, I'll remove those igbos from their positions and put real Edo born there.

Those universities student will be full of Edo peoope.

Igbo thinks other ethnic groups own them something, very ungrateful problematic people

The least we could do is to accommodate them as brothers and not to condescend to your level of bigotry.

They are already having a tough time trying to dig themselves out of the hole they put themselves by planning an unsuccessful coup in 1966.

The people that once hold very important positions and even consider themselves as the pride of the nation are now fighting a losing battle and begging to be allowed Biafra.

We should continue to accommodate they not minding their insolence.

MelesZenawi:
You know quite well that you are lying but that will be story for another day.


Your former posts alone has already proved you wrong.

Edo is probably the most liberal state in Nigeria, it's where nobody really care about where you come from, once you prove yourself to be worthy, you can easily climb up the social ladder without tribalism holding you back.

The personal assistant to the current governor is from Anioma in Delta state.

The past government of Oshomole also had Media aids from the east.

The former Edo state APC secretary is an Igbo man, it has always be like that for hundreds of years, can you give similar examples of Edo people occupying important positions in the east?

What you take as Benin hatred of Igbo online is only a response to you and your people's online exhibition of tribalism which is often displayed through your attempts to distort, diminish and downplay Benin history.

Osagyefo98:
Anywhere oba passes his ancestors and ancestry are created.

Are you this low and petty on this your Bini kingdom logic?

As at today such kingdom you are imagining is just fiction.

You leave your people and be dragging another man's land.

Who do you?

Accept Bini are Yorubas and Yorubas are binis before creating inconsequential logic

Do you even know the meaning of the word logic, what I stated about Oba Ovonramwen having more wives and children in Calabar between 1897 and 1914 is a fact that can easily be verified on the internet and there was no reference to land dragging in my submission.

There are photos of him and his immediate family members taken in Calabar on the internet.

His family members in Calabar didn't return back to Benin neither did they all died with him.

The house Oba Ovonramwen stayed in Calabar is preserved as a museum and tourist centre, assuming you know the meaning of this.

If you are doubting this well known history of not just Benin but of Nigeria and still can't understand all the explanations I have given you about how his descendants in Calabar can claim Benin royal ancestry, you have serious issues with comprehension and it exposes your level of education.

You don't have to loose your head for having no history of your own to be proud of, all you need to do next time when people are discussing Benin history is to simply stay out of it not to have a heartbreak.

Osagyefo98:
I should thank you for Insults?

Are you serious?

Instead of correcting your mistake, you are proving arrogant on it.

Arrogant?

If I was arrogant, I wouldn't have taken my time to go into details to educate you on how you could find people of Benin descents across Nigeria because it's an old Empire with many footprints across Nigeria and West Africa.

At least you now know not to doubt or question people from Calabar that may claim Benin royal ancestry in the future even though they bear Calabar names, speaks Calabar language and attend Calabar union meetings. Same applies to other tribes.

I will be surprised, if you still think all these free history lessons are not enough for you to thank me for.

Osagyefo98:
So Ndigbo is now Indigo?

It is obvious you don't have respect for ndigbo.

I can't call this mistake. this is the height of insolence.

Guy, you are either very petty or a joker to latched on a typographical error from all that was written to educate you or is that how you say thank you.

Osagyefo98:
What you wrote is s mere reference not an answer to the question I asked.

Your reply doesn't answer the question and not in anyway clear.

They are from Benin but are members of Ohanaeze ndigbo, speak Igbo and everything Igbo....

Can you vividly explain well not all these citation.

How did such Happen

If you are still asking how a descendant of Benin can become a member of Ohanaeze indigo, after I have gave you an example of how a descendant of Igbo can become a MBE (member of the British Empire), speaks English as his only language and bear an English name and still retains his history as an Igbo man, then your exposure and sense of history is very limited and I may not be able to help you.

The Queen of England and members of the British royal family are of German descent. They all speak English, answer English names and occupied the highest echelons of the British society, all these have not eroded their German ancestry.

If you still have further questions and doubts on how all these could happen, you need to educate yourself some more.

It's up to people to tell you who their ancestors are, it's not for you to doubt them and decide for them even if they speak Igbo, bear Igbo names and attend Ohaneze meetings.

Obi of Iselu-Uku in Anioma amongst many others said his people have Benin ancestry, Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe said him and his Onitsha people have Benin ancestry, that is their history, you can research yours instead of doubting them and trying to tell them their histories.

It may interest you to know that when the British banished Oba Ovonramwen Nogaisi to Calabar in 1897, the Oba had more wives and children in Calabar until his death in 1914, those children remained in Calabar and when you come across one of their descendants in the future and they tell you of their Benin royal ancestry, you will begin to question and doubt them because they now probably speak Calabar language and bear Calabar names.

Hope you can now appreciate how limited your sense of history is not to know how such could happen.

Osagyefo98:
How can someone speaking Igbo automatically become Bini?

Please I need clear explanation on this logic

If someone that speaks Igbo tells you his ancestors are Yoruba, Hausa or Benin then that's what they are and not what you want them to be.

If people in Anioma and Onitsha says their ancestors are from Benin, that's what they are and not what you want or would like them to be.

If someone in England that speaks English as his/her only language says they are of Igbo descent, that is what they are, you don't force being English on them because they speak English and resides in England.

If the Oba of Lagos, Olu of Warri and Obi of Iselu-Uku says they are of Benin descents, that is who they are, not what you would like them to be.

Hope this is clear enough.

Osagyefo98:
Osagyefo means Great and it is not a bini word rather a Ghanaian word.

Sam loco Efe is a bini man that resides in Igboland and can speak igbo very well. We can't use because he speaks igbo but from Edo to say Edos are Igbo...How will the logic sound in your ear?

Secondly I didn't remember claiming Delta as igbo territory.... moreover aniomas are Igbos and not Edos.

Edos are Urhobo and Itshekiris.

Mr poster, are you not confusing yourself here, you said Sam Loco Efe is a Benin man that resides in Igbo land and speaks Igbo but that doesn't make him an Igbo man.

You then turn your logic on his head by saying the people of Anioma that claim Benin descent are not Benin because they speak Igbo, so in your logic, Anioma are Igbos because they speak Igbo irrespective of what they claim to be but Sam Loco who also is in Igbo land and speaks Igbo is accepted as Benin, why the double standard and confusion.

If we were to follow your logic, Sam Loco Efe can't be Benin because he speaks Igbo like the people of Anioma since you are claiming that Anioma can't be Benin because they speak Igbo.

MelesZenawi:
The Ooni of Ife, Adeyeye Ogunwusi, on 10 February 2016 said Benin Kingdom in Edo State remained part of the expansive Yoruba people, a pronouncement that may spark fresh rivalry and altercation between people of the two ancient kingdoms.

This is a strong statement..and the statement was made with an air of authority.

Cc

Samuk
Areafada2.

These are political statements that no Ooni or any Yoruba Oba would have dear made before 1897.

In fact there were no such thing as a cohesive, homogeneous Yoruba race that shared Oduduwa common ancestry like they are now propagating before 1900.

The Yoruba had no way of dating the Oduduwa era, they rely on the Benin dating system.

Benin dating of historical events, apart from relying on Ora and arts was greatly enhanced by early European visitors who kept written/documented eye witness accounts since the 1400s.

Must historical events and the reigns of most Obas of Benin since the 1400s can be dated with some degree of accuracy because written accounts were kept by Europeans, some of who were resident in Benin city for up to two years at a time during these periods.

So I don't know how the young star Ooni became an authority on Benin history. I doubt if he is even an authority on Yoruba history considering the fact that Yoruba history is a conglomeration of the histories of once different tribes and villages/towns, Eko, Ijebu, Ife, Owo, Akure, Oyo, etc.

The Yorubas should first sort out their confusions about their stories of Oduduwa either descended from heaven with chains or from Mecca before attempting to dabble into the well established history of Benin.

MelesZenawi:
Well since it now over and equity restored to minority.


It is now honourable for Igbos to pull out of the current federal arrangement without threat to anybody or tribe.


The minority tribes remains intact in Nigeria and that's the assurance Nigeria had gotten.

Igbos are not asking for too much if they seek for only Igbo biafra.....It is not something huge to ask for .....I see it as an appeal that should be granted easily.


The problem is lack of foresight by Nigerians to see reasons why such request is necessary.

Your leaders have to start making these demands through the appropriate authorities and political platforms, your representatives in the national assembly could start raising the issue. Your governors, traditional and religious leaders could start singing in one voice.

The internet is hardly the right platform for such agitation.

MelesZenawi:
They have always shown support, the media always try to twist their support..

When people like you are always against same struggle both online and offline..and always trying to be vocal..

Igbos geographical location is a big problem to them....That's just the fact... Totally surrounded by many minority tribes.....

The minority tribes are not the only problem Igbo have, they also have a serious trust issues with the North due to the events of 1966, the west also don't trust Igbos.

In January 1966 Nigerian coup d'etat led mostly by young Igbo officers. Most of the politicians and senior army officers killed by them were northerners because Northerners were the majority in Nigerias government , including the Prime Minister Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and Ahmadu Bello the Sardauna of Sokoto.

You can see how difficult it will be for you to achieve Biafra.

MelesZenawi:
That's why we are now proposing Igbo natural boundary of only Igbo speaking areas.

No need entering to inconvenience Bini people again and more no more war but diplomacy.

Igbo boundaries remain the answer even you will have nothing to fear.

That's why I said it's up to your leaders and representatives to present their case for support but so far there is hardly any Igbo leader supporting the Biafra struggle.