₦airaland Forum

MetaPhysical:
I forgot to mention also.

Since you keep harping Nupe/Igala.

Igala attach itself as a proto-Yoruba language and culture. This is corfirmable and has been repeated many times by their Attah.

Nupe is from Igala.

So whichever you take your origin ...you are still inferior to Yoruba.

You are not getting it, we are not looking for who is superior.

This is not supremacy contest for us. We are only in search of of the truth and there is no evidence or the evidence available to back up Benin/Ife relationship is very weak at this point in time.

You are trying so had to destract by keep on saying you are superior.

I don't really know how or when you became superior or was it when you were importing guns from Benin to be killing yourselves.

Please don't tell me about Ooni who your must trusted historian, Johnson recorded as being a descendant of shrine keeper.

Don't tell me about Alaafin who once begged the Oba of Benin to save him from other Yoruba tribes.

I don't know of your other achievements and accomplishments that is greater than the great wall of Benin, four times the great wall of China and many times the size of the great pyramids of Egypt, what really makes you guys think you are superior, is it because your said it.

You guys like to make claims you can't back up with credible evidence.

Benin is not interested in fabricated evidence.

Benin/Ife is a fabrication. Benin had no relationship with Ife till after 1824.

MetaPhysical:
I have rearranged the above and itemized to give a direct relation in my responses.


1. The tradition is in Edo. Edo says the origin of their King is Ife. In addition, their brass civilization originated from Ife as well.

2. What European explorers reported when they visited Edo differs from what Edo practices.

If you look at these two you should see the contradiction and not be comfortable sharing it here. You should have a problem with European visitors giving false report about your ancestors and dismissing their traditions.

Do you not see it? Is it acceptable to you that Europeans pretty much said they know better than your ancestors on what their tradition should be? Thats a mindset of a conqueror.


3. European visitors examined your brass and dug up some artefacts. What they found did not agree with account and practices in Edo.

Were your ancestors lying to the visitors....or were the visitors pre-occupied in connecting your artefacts to River Niger by fire by force?

In that age Ryder wrote about, Europeans had a penchant for connecting seats of dynastic power with a body of water. In Europe dynasty and water were interlinked. Water was a common item in the origin story of civilizations.

These visitors met a REFORMED Benin and when asked about their origin they claimed Ife, instead of Niger Benue. These people have lost their senses....don't worry we will rewrite their origin and place it in Niger-Benue.

4. The way they concocted a new history for you is by assuming that you came from somewhere else in complete disregard to the tradition of your ancestors. This is what they meant by "hypothesis".

They reduced your custom to fantasies! They reconstructed the traditions of your ancestors....and you proudly shared this with me with gleeful joy and celebration.

I dont know about you dude.


5. They are not sure about the Ypruba States but to them its origin should equally have a water myth to it. They were not so committed to that but did not want to reveal their ignorance and lack of professionalism in field study and so just left that open.

Now, if you look at Acholonu's work, which I made available in this thread in my quest for the East, you will see why this thread was a deliberate mockery of your Benin superiority and deBarros error that your authority is obtained in East. TAO11 already revealed this to you.

Do you not see a connection in the Niger-Benue origin of Idu as told by Acholonu....and the Niger-Benue reconstruction of Ryder many centuries before?

Acholonu is retelling and re-living the hypothesis of European visitors that reconstructed your origin.

This reconstruction is what continues till today to confuse you and make you denounce Ife, the custom and traditions your ancestors practiced.

It's very important that you get one thing straight about the average Benin person when it comes to their history, it's only the truth that matters.

History to us is not about tribal supremacy, if you view us from this angle, you will miss the point.

We don't care where the truth lead us to, in as far as it's the truth.

Some people just can't wake up one day and begin to write about Benin/Ife relationship when there are no evidence to back it up, no recorded history or oral history for over 500 years to back it up.

If the Yorubas had said Oranmiyan was from Owo, Ekiti or Akure, it would have made more sense because we had both oral and documented history with those palaces.

What we will not accept is to be lumped into some union with fabricated history.

The European are not trying to rewrite our history, it's just that, there are no evidence to support Benin/Ife relationship.

You know that the Orun Oba Ado is a fraud.

The messagers represented by the Benin artwork the Yorubas claim was from Ife bears no resemblance to an Ife person but Nupe/Igala.

gregyboy:
And this how it started from ijebu to benin

Ijebu finally sorcorn to the nonsense


Thanks to oba akenzua who pulled us out of western region awolowo a full that he was wanted all means to have us there

Thank god he died out of rat poison

I wished a benin man or an igbo man killed him

You are right, the Awujale of Ijebu is a reluctant participant in their current Yoruba experiment.

Every now and then, you keep hearing the Awujale making statements not in tandem with one Yoruba project.

It's either you hear him referred to the Ooni as a descendant of a shrine keeper or you hear him referring to Yoruba as a brand name to unite people of different tribes who didn't share one common heritage.

I wonder where their story of queen of sheba fits into their common Oduduwa heritage history.

gregyboy:
More research to our elbow....

If we can prove were oghene comes from we can prove how benin originated from

Egharevba never got all this materials available to him, he wouldn't have bother himself compromising benin history

Looks like your girlfriend has thrown in the towel and run away.

MetaPhysical:

You still have not responded to what deBarros said.

Benin does not breathe unless a superior king to the East say so.


Who is this all-mighty king and where in the East?

We are still looking for your east and this might interest you.

The only thing that matters to us, the Benin, unlike the Yorubas, is the truth, irrespective to where it leads and no fabrication will be entertained.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract
The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife. Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition. Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties. It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations. The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.

babtoundey:
I should accept the truth which is the truth because your grandad says it's the truth and your own presumption asserts it the truth.

Cheers to your new found Confusion.

It wasn't just his grandad that say so alone, European experts who have documented Benin history for centuries have serious difficulties reconciling latter day fabrication of Benin/Ife relationship with actual evidence they have gathered over centuries.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract
The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife. Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition. Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties. It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations. The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.

gregyboy:
They yoruba people are trying to replace owo connections with ife so as to have a form of supiority over edo

Benin had connections with various yorubas such as, ekiti, ondo and even oyo

Benin had connections with oyo on several bases
While protecting its territory against oyo expansion into ondo which was settled through war and benin always came out victorious

Thier aim is if they can hold on to the myth benin - ife connection then every benin glory wilk be indirectly accorded to them sine they believe Oduduwa established benin monarchy


I have told a yoruba guy on this thread to prove benin ife connection he has since ran away unable to prove it

Have seen this extract from Ryder also pointed to the North rather than Ife.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract
The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife. Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition. [/b]Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties. It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. [b]The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations. The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.

gregyboy:
The Portuguese used thier form of interpretation on distance to give d locations which has bedn transcribed to modern locations and it centres around nupe, igala we cant trace them again because islam had destroyed thier culture

That was also the area the Benin researcher and author traced and linked to Uhe.

Just also leant from Silversniper's submission that there was another war recorded in that area against the people that were called I think Salgo.

Benin did alot in that area in it's earlier history that's worth exploring.

Ask yourself, why will a Benin chief instigate the Attah of Igala against Oba Esigie to cause the Ida war, if there were not some sort of relationship and connection Between Benin and the people of Igala at that time.

It's the middle belt part of Benin history, the Yorubas are trying to replace with Ife.

gregyboy:
That reminds me

Oghene means god in estako

Oghene means god in urohobo


Oghene, ohen means priest in benin a very high priest

Gregyboy,

I submitted before that the Oghene would have been situated in the region of old Benin empire that call their God Oghene.

There is a Benin researcher that traces Uhe to the area of etsako in the mountainous area of Edo north.

The Benin call Lagos eko, every Yoruba adopted that name for Lagos.

If Benin had called Ife or Ooni, Oghene, the Yorubas would have known about it not waiting for later day revisionist to link Oghene to Ife.

No modern day historian told us that the Yorubas call us Ado, we heard the name directly from them for centuries.

No latter day historian told us the Igbos call us Idu, we heard it directly from them for centuries.

gregyboy:
That reminds me

Oghene means god in estako

Oghene means god in urohobo


Oghene, ohen means priest in benin a very high priest

Gregyboy,

I submitted before that the Oghene would have been situated in the region of old Benin empire that call their God Oghene.

There is a Benin researcher that traces Uhe to the area of etsako in the mountainous area of Edo north.

darfay:
Are you going to pretend that you don't know oghene means supreme God in some edoid languages?

How can a benin ex convict izobuwa be a supreme God?

Do you mind this clown. Well, some of us are here to entertain ourselves.

If the Benin had told the Portuguese about any Oghene, that Oghene would have been situated amongst the Edoid people that use that name for their God.

Benin would have referred to Ooni by his correct Yoruba name and title because they refer to other Yoruba gods and Oracle such as Oranmila by their Yoruba names.

They didn't invent Edo words or names for these Yoruba gods and Oracles.

TAO11:
No where did I mention the first lines of your comment.

I am about to ask you to go away and let your parents talk to me instead.


"Oduduwa" is a specific person -- a proper noun.


"Oghene" as used (in this context) by the Binis is what the Binis call the rulerS (plural) of Ife --- (including Oduduwa himself) not just one person.

So you now have a list of the rulerS (plural) of Ife Benin call Oghene (God) other than Oduduwa.

Oghene is an Edo word for singular not plural.

And for some reasons it made sense to you that the Benin will refer to a living person as God and not by their names or titles.

In the 10th century the Benin remember a specific Oduduwa in Ife, he was not Oghene then but by late 15th century the Benin forgot the name and title of rulers of Ife and told the Portuguese Oghene.

Or maybe the Benin Just forget to call Oduduwa Oghene(God). But they remember the Yoruba names of other Yoruba gods and Oracle such as Oranmila.

Or the Yoruba hadn't invented a word for God then, so the Benin had no choice but to use the Edo word for God (Oghene)

Same Benin people that have already achieved (the moat) what no human race in history had achieved on planet earth at that time.

You can continue with own version of Benin/Ife history that suits you.

I have other aspects of Benin/Yoruba history I will be exploring thanks to historians like Johnson.

TAO11:
I will never insult anyone who proceeds with some decorum

He made his points with his best evidence (what I love)

And I gave my superior submission (with evidence)

He eventually backed off on his points on: Crowther and Johnson account (where I showed that Oba of Benin once paid tributes to the Alaafin); Orun Oba Ado, etc.

We both agreed that the apocryphal accounts on the Ooni are fabricated myths.


The only point which he hasn't backed off on yet is his claim that there is a Yoruba or Oyo tradition which claims Ajaka to be the first Alaafin of Oyo --- a claim which he is still searching for evidence for.


Comparing this to you and your ilks. Gosh! --- empty barrels.

Good to hear it directly from you that Silversniper is way out of you agbero and gutter level.

Go back to your exchanges and show me where he for once insult or disrespected you, despite your lack of manners, decorum and decency.

You told us here that the Benin celebrate Oduduwa festival, why will the Benin call the festival Oduduwa and not Oghene festival if indeed Oduduwa/Ooni was the Oghene referred to in your fake sources.

TAO11:
Those are too much for your brain to processes, I know.

Come back to read it again when your head is cooled down from flogging.


SilverSniper got the gist and backed off on the point.


Never you with a thick skull tho.

Insults will not save you now, you can't retort to insults after losing the debate.

I said it before that there were more to the Benin/Yoruba history that you guys would like to propagate.

Silversniper is way out of your league. Unless you can show me where he came down to your gutter level in spite of your provocative languages and insults.

I am ordering Johnson books on history of Yoruba.

1. Ooni was nothing but a descendant of shrine keeper

2. The so much talked about Yoruba Kiriji war got
the name from the almighty sounds of Benin guns

3 . Alaafin once begged the Oba of Benin to come save him from other Yoruba tribes

4. Alaafin once paid tributes to Benin.

How interesting.

TAO11:
Historical evidence (which he admits) exist in that case to corroborate what not only Johnson but also Crowther had documented.

Historical evidence shows that Oyo gained military and political ascendancy over other kingdoms including Benin kingdom. And he accept that.


So? Johnson and Crowther independently recording account of tribute from Benin to Oyo is therefore corroborated by such widely attested fact.


In the case of the Ooni, it's the other way around.

Overwhelming account all over Yorubaland refute such few one-off traditions.


And it is not just me who see this clearly like this, experts too do, Professor R. C.C. Law

You need to bring your brain to discussions like this and stop comparing chalk and cheese.

Can you read what you have written?

Your sources agreed with the part that suits he and discount the part that he didn't like.

Sounds like a typical Yoruba influenced revisionist.

TAO11:
You're wondering why they regarded him as God??

Okay, why call him God is an interesting question.

But did they??

The evidence I have pointed out says yes.


So, if that demeans you and your heritage some how, then engage the evidence.

They couldn't call him by the Yoruba word for God.

If they were able to pronounce Oranmiyan and Oranmila why not call him by the Yoruba name for God.

No evidence to show the word Oghene is a Yoruba word.

Ife did not speak Edo language or did they?

Only Yoruba bias sources will ascribe Oghene to Ooni or Ife. The same way your sources have be claiming Benin artworks that describe other tribes.

TAO11:
Johnson collected the accounts around, no doubt.

The point here (which appears to be bigger than you) is not that Johnson didn't collect such.

What experts like Professor R.C.C. Law has submitted after his examinimg the sources is that such account were fabricated by their source as a means of political propaganda. They have no substance.


Now, crawl back in reverse mode i to your creepy hole.

Sorry, I thought you just lambasted SilverSniper, when he suggested the same about Johnson.

You are now speaking from both sides of your mouth.

TAO11:
Do you have problem reading?

Where does the account say Yoruba call Ooni Oghene?

The evidence simply talks about what the Edos call the Ooni of Ife.

Oghene

If the Benin can pronounce Oranmiyan, oranmila and other Yoruba words and names of that time why call Ife or Ooni Oghene and not by the name the Yoruba call him.

Oghene was not a word ever heard in Ife.

You guys and your bias sources were desperately trying to linked Ife and Ooni to Oghene.

TAO11:
Ogané is the Portuguese rendering of the actual indigenous Benin word to describe this "most powerful monarch."

In other words a certain name in Edo language (??) became rendered in Portuguese as Ogane.

Another example of European rendering is a Latin rendering of this same indigenous Benin word as Orguene, as seen on a 1525 map of Africa.

So what actually is the indigenous Benin word which is rendered in Portuguese and Latin as Ogane and Orguene??

By paying a special careful attention to the sounds, the Bini word Oghene seems to be the most plausible original Bini word which the Europeans attempted to render in their own tongues.

But did the ancient Binis ever use the word "Oghene" in relation to the "Ooni of Ife"??

The answer is a loud YES.

Starting with the most recent of the two evidences I will cite to prove this foregoing claim:

(a) In his "May 2004 The Benin-Ife Comnection", Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II noted emphatically that Oduduwa (who was the Ooni of Ife during his days) was known by the Benin people as Oghene n'Uhe.

Refer to the link below for "Oghene n'Uhe" in Oba Erediauwa II's May 2004 work: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm

(b) Citing different instances of Ife's political influence as exercised through the Ifa cult, Robin Horton alludes to a Benin tradition in his 1979 "Ancient Ife: A Reassessment" as follows:

"Yet another tradition, this time from Benin, tells how the oracle of the Oghene of Uhe ("Oni of Ife" ) forewarned the Oba of Benin of impending calamity a few years before the disastrous encounter with the British."

Reference:
Robin Horton, "Ancient Ife: A Reassessment", Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol 9. No. 4 (June 1979), p.124.


It therefore becomes clear at this point that the "Ooni of Ife" was known in ancient Benin as "Oghene" --- a 'name' which in European rendering became Ogane, Orguene, etc.

None of your sources have shown that the Yorubas used the word Oghene at anytime in their history, unless you are telling us, Ife used to speak the Edo language.

TAO11:
Which historical source?

Experts have examined that same source you call historical and have concluded that such accounts are audio accounts.

And I have referenced R. C. C. Law for example.

Rest!

I guess later day revisionist experts like yourself. Johnson stands as a pillar of Yoruba history.

TAO11:
(1)Left Benin, went back to Ife, then sends Ajaka to go and rule over a kingdom which is not yet founded.?? ?? .... Isn't God wonderful??

(2) Or was it before going to Benin at all?? ??Which means that Alaafin is still superior.

(3) However, you had stated earlier that this account you're talking of says he was with Ajaka in Oyo but later left Ajaka to be king at Oyo.

Did Oranmiyan leave Ajaka at Oyo or dis Oranmiyan send Ajaka to Oyo.

Which one of these two contradictioms does this your audio account say?? ??



I pardon you laughable contradiction (a clear indication of your lie). I'm sure you never saw it coming.

I therefore ask you to decide on which one of these 2 contradictions you are searching your evidence for.

But until then, your account remains an audio account.

The account of Oranmiyan being the first Alaafin therefore remains unchallenged by anything.

Thus, Alaafin remains superior to Oba Ubinu.

So the Alaafin once begged the Oba of Benin to send army to come and save him from other Yoruba tribes.

He even said previous Alaafin used to pay tributes to Benin.

I need to get myself these books on history of Yoruba, they sound very interesting.

Cc gregyboy

TAO11:
R.C.C. Law and your alter ego (if not you yourself) called such account about the Ooni as myths, fabrications, etc.

You can't nitpick the sources that suits you. The historical sources that said the Ooni was a descendant of mere shrine keeper is one of the biggest Yoruba historian if not the biggest source of Yoruba history.

You are happy to quote Egharevba to support your Benin history but would want to refute Yoruba biggest historian, Johnson, on Yoruba history.

You can't pick and choose.

Yoruba Kiriji war was named after the sounds of the almighty Benin guns.

gregyboy:
It seems you have agreed oghene is ife

Ife was not the only place people went for Oracle in the past.

Oghene could have been any of those other numerous places.

SilverSniper:
I think you misread the post. Asibong Okon was merely citing a British article, from the United Empire book, and he repeated what was stated in that sentence almost word for word. So he couldn't have lied about that. Maybe you think the British governor lied about what he was told, but that would be a different issue entirely (how reliable are colonial authorities, or Europeans generally, in their accounts of what they were told by African rulers).

My point about Johnson is that his pro-Oyo bias is significant enough that multiple historians have commented on it - significant enough that he promotes the idea in his book The History of the Yorubas that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book; the historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published). So Johnson was someone who could - and apparently did - incorporate myths or legends that had a sort of political angle to them into his historical account.

As for Crowther I was merely speculating or alluding to how he may not have been an impartial source since he may have simply been repeating a pro-Oyo account which was prevalent in his time.

Very interesting, I remember the Awujale of Ijebu saying that the Ooni was not of royal descent.

These different Yoruba tribes once killed themselves with help of guns and mercenaries supplied by Benin.

The guys are just here spinning Benin history to unite themselves.

I now understand their pain and anger against Benin.

You are a breath of fresh air.

Cc Gregyboy

MetaPhysical:
Oranmiyan is father of Oba Benin and Alaafin.

Oba Benin is senior to Alaafin in birth. Alaafin is senior to Oba Benin in political strength.

We respect Oba Benin and accept him as our son and are proud of him.

It is you Edos that do disservice to his throne by trying relentlessly to humiliate him with false information about his lineage and root.

You are his liability. We are an asset to him.

If that is what you believe, then go and tell TAO11 on the other thread instead of running away like a coward.

Besides I don't know what political strength you are referring to.

Did you see any of the Benin being ask to shut up and leave the thread by their fellow Benin people.

The problem with you guys is you lack the confidence to stand on your own argument without calling for help from your tribes people.

It's not a competition for you to win a medal or price.

Immediately TAO11 disagrees with what you have written here, you will quickly change and say you were only joking like before.

TAO11:
YES, Oranmiyan is the grand-son of Oodua.

Eweka is therefore the great-grand-son of Oodua.

[According to our traditions.]


The point??

Did you also forget that your tradition says Oranmiyan came to Benin first, left a son before going to Oyo, then left another son before returning to Ife.

So why did you not list it the way your tradition thought you.

Everything with you guys have to be viewed with a tribal prism.

Complete waste of time debating you guys.

gregyboy:
The Palace still makes the error there was never a connection
I think the palace enjoy the myth for political reasons

You now gets the logic behind it. I don't think it was error at all, I believe it was deliberate.

Same reason Oba of Lagos have more respect for the Oba of Benin than the Ooni.

The Oba of Lagos even calls the Oba of Benin his father.

The Palace will not even agree to any changes.

TAO11:
Are you afraid to point out where my post which you pasted said Oranmiyan did not come to Benin??



Or is there something else you are afraid of??

Or am I talking to a dvmb dvmb??

Go back and read your post, you listed first Alaafin as Oranmiyan who was the grandson of Ooni and listed the Oba of Benin as the great grandson of Ooni.

TAO11:
I am still waiting for you to point out where.

I had expected that you will soon start believing your own lies.

It's gradually unfolding.

#SamukThePathologicalLiar

Below is where you listed Oranmiyan as the first Oba of Benin, now you are saying it was his son, who is now the pathological liar.

The problem with liars is that they easily forget themselves because they make up stories as they go along.

Do you think I am as stupid as your Yoruba followers and supporters.

I have now proved that you make up stories that suits your ethnic bias.

You are way below my league.
Bye

: The main reasons Yoruba not enlisted as a tribe in Edo state by TAO11(f): 10:44pm On Apr 04
The following shows a listing of all the reigns in Benin starting from Oranmiyan's all the way down to before Ovoranmwen's whose partial reign and imminent deposing marked the beginning of the British colonial take over of Benin's polity.

Refer to https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html for a verification of this listing.

1. Oronmiyan
2. Eweka I
3. Uwakhuanhen ☆
4. Ehenmihen
5. Ewedo
6. Oguola ☆
7. Edoni
8. Udagbedo
9. Ohen ☆
10. Ogbeka
11. Orobiru
12. Uwaifiokun ☆
13. Ewuare I
14. Ezoti
15. Olua ☆
16. Ozolua
17. Esegie
18. Orhogbua ☆
19. Ehengbuda
20. Ohuan
21. Ahenzae ☆
22. Akenzua
23. Akengboi
24. Akenkpaye ☆
25. Akengbodo
26. Oroghene
27. Ewuakpe ☆
28. Ozuere
29. Akenzua I
30. Eresoyen ☆
31. Akengbuda
32. Obanosa
33. Ogbebo ☆
34. Osemwende
35. Adolor
36. Ovoranmwen

(A) Starting with Oronmiyan as the reference point, I have indicated the successive "third-reigns" with a "☆" for ease of following through.

And there are obviously eleven "third-reigns" in total.

(B) If, however, one contends that Oronmiyan was not formally Oba at Benin, and that the enumeration should start with Eweka I as the reference point; then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" would still remain eleven.

(C) Even if you argue that the tradition resulted from an after-thought subsequent to when the "first" Oba Eweka I had already left the scene, the eventual total number of "third-reigns" --- starting thus with Uwakhuahen as the reference point --- would still remain eleven.


As I have since noted before now, this resulting total number of "third-reigns" (i.e. eleven )
matches precisely the total number of circular "burial pits" (i.e. "eleven" ) which Frank Willett noted that he found at Orun Oba Ado, when he conducted an archaeological excavation of the site.

Refer below for reference to Frank Willett's find:
WILLETT 2004: Chapter 1.3. cited in James W. Lankton, O. Akin Ige, & Thilo Rehren, "Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria", Journal of African Archaeology, Vol. 4 (1), 2006, pp.125-126.
See copy here:

gregyboy:
He is pulling our legs leave him alone go do personal research on ife and benin history and come to write your findings leave d buffon alone

Am doing research on egharevba write up and benin various art and what am seeing are impressive i advice you do thesame

I leave that evening newspaper

And go for deep research work

Is funny we will be the one to correct the palace on our findings

The Palace probably knew what they are doing because the way it stands, the Oba of Benin is the most senior Oba to them all.

That was what late Oba Erediawa told the late Ooni when he went to visit him, the Ooni try to say welcome back home my son, the Oba corrected him by saying a father cannot be a son.

gregyboy:
Retard

Did you just see her now denying that Oranmiyan didn't come to Benin. It was the son.

This is how you catch out a liar.

In her previous posts she listed Oranmiyan as the first Oba of Benin, now she is saying something else.

If this is the best the Yorubas nairaland historians have, what a shame.

These people are not as clever the way we thought they are.

I just played a little trick and I catches her out.

TAO11:
I will knack sense into ypur head by force.



I like that I'm making yoi lie to yourself. You will soon be believing your own lie.

Have you ever heard about comparing likes with likes??

If you aren't sick and pained from my thorough all-week long flogging, then you should know that you are meant to compare like with like.

It is only in your warped Benin mind that you will compare as follows:

The 7th Ooni of Ife with 2nd Alaafn Oyo and then 1st Pba of Benin.

No the comparison is as follows:

First Ooni of Ife compared with first Alaafin of Oyo compared with first first Oba of Benin.

If you don't understand thus now, you will understand afyer you've been discharged fro the isolation center hopefully.

1. First Ooni --Oodua --- Grand Father
2. First Alaafin -- Oranmiyan Grand Son
3. First Oba Benin -- Eweka --- Great Grand Son.

Moreover, what makes you think Oba Eweka II was stupid in the ranking he alluded to in my attachment above.


Regarding tussle, the only tussle as I have said earlier (between the past Ooni and the reigning Alaafin) is a tussle from a political parties affiliation.

If it was a tussle from throne superiority, doesnt your rotten brain not tell you that the Alaafin would not have bowed down to the new Ooni as you clearly see in the image I attached.

Or are you denying your own sense of sight

So you are now telling us that Oranmiyan didn't come to Benin, so it was Oranmiyan son that now came to Benin. Please make your reply clearer.

Please answer with what your historical sources says.