whitelotus:



I dont hate islam or any religion. Are you not here chatting with me? Do you like chatting with Islamophobes and bigots?

My goal has always to let Nigerians understand the excesses of religion and the importance of secularism.

The uk is an example of how secularism works. The king (now queen) had divine rights to rule with the backing of the church in the past. Now it is a secular country where all religions have rights and there is constant reduction of the power of the church of England in politics.


I am not interested in converting people from islam. My goal is to get them to understand the importance of secularism and also for them to see the benefits of practicing religion moderately.


That being said, there are many clerics in the north of Nigeria that support underage marriage and blasphemy laws that have capital punishment.

So, my claim is tight on the mark, you are more moderate than the average Nigerian muslim. Or fo you support 14 years imprisonment of gays?

I chat with everyone. I don’t discriminate.

And what have you achieved? For why? Have you tried the other way around? Understand why people believe what they do, even if it’s wrong to you. Understanding will allow you to reach a common ground that will allow you to penetrate the changes you want to make. It’s slow and gradual. I’m sorry I don’t agree with Bala’s approach. I think sometimes people mask anger with social justice.

And yet the UK still suffers discrimination. After how many decades? Nigeria hasn’t even been independent for 100 years. Let’s be patient and try to be understand and learn from each other. Ignorance breeds intolerance.

My Muslim friends and people around me would be “moderate” then. Maybe you need to change your circle?

whitelotus:


What about our dear friend, Empiree? A man that defends 14 year old girls marrying? Underage Nikkah.

What about this thread? Two muslims here believe that an atheist should be sentenced to death for criticising islam


Nigerians practice religion conservatively, in general

I don’t know any of those people. I know online Empiree who is abroad. I also don’t know any atheists that behave like you too. And I know ALOT of atheists. I don’t know a single one that spends their time hating a religion.

whitelotus:


That means nothing. A lot of people like lamb meat. Mutton. I find it disgusting

Lamb is divine. Elite food lol.

You asked me if I knew how sweet a bacon cheeseburger was and I replied that bacon was disgusting.

whitelotus:



No problem.

You just sound like those ladies who live abroad.

What I mean is that I know lots of nigerians who have lived abroad for so long that they think that Nigeria practice the same moderate religion they do.

Are you aware that you are more moderate than the average Nigerian muslim?

Omo naija ni mi oo How do ladies that live abroad sound?

Nope. I don’t know a single person that behaves the way you think Muslims do.

whitelotus:



Lies.


You previously mentioned that you live in some European country...Ireland or somthing

I don’t live in Ireland ooo. I just like Ireland. Have a few close Irish friends.

whitelotus:



Bacon is not disgusting.

Think of it like pre-marital sex.

Premarital sex is wrong but that does not mean it is not sweet.

Just like bacon is unhealthy but it doesn't mean that it is not sweet.

It’s very disgusting. I mean the taste lol

whitelotus:


Low self esteem? When last were you in Nigeria?

That is the one thing Nigerians need less of- self esteem and pride.

I’m from Nigeria ? I’m always in Nigeria lol

Nope. They don’t have any.

whitelotus:



Of course some of my stories are exaggerated. But it is to highlight the intersection of islam, atheism and morality.

It is also to highlight the comedic part of living as a muslim in the west. I mean, do you know how sweet bacon cheeseburgers are?

Bacon is disgusting.

whitelotus:


Boys beat me up? lmao!!!

I first lied to them that I was muslim. However, they later caught me because I went clubbing and of course smelling alcohol. Also, no muslim orders bacon double cheeseburger from Burger King. What a whopper


When the lie was out, I simply told them that if they threatened me, I will kill them and run to Nigeria. In Nigeria, I cant go to jail because I come from an important family. They all chilled after that. I also made sure that I visited them with my crew of black south london boys to pick up the sister.


Fun times.

Why wouldnt I leave the UK? I'm more successful than most of my friends who remained in the UK. Even those who have successful careers have money but no time. I have both

Lol I don’t know any man that moves like that. I’m glad you enjoyed yourself.

That’s nice! When I grow up I want to be just like you

whitelotus:


Top 3 problems in Nigeria

1. Corruption

2. Tribalism

3. Religion.

Religion itself is a form of tribalism.

Top 3 problems in Nigeria

1. Low self esteem

2. No accountability

3. Lack of education

whitelotus:


That is not the reason why I am here. That was long ago when I was a young man in the UK.

I am here because of Nigeria. I want to make a change in Nigeria.

Nigeria has a lot of problems. Muslims don’t even make top 100.

Why did you leave the UK? Boys beat you up in the Uk? Why didn’t you call the police?

whitelotus:



I've told you my story before. I once dated a muslim. Her brothers wanted to fvck me up because I was a non muslim. The irony was that I had just left christianity at the time and I would have converted for her......or at least, I was considering it....until they showed me intolerance.

Now, here is the thing- my Muslim ex was a liberal Muslim. Live and let live. She rolls with Buddhists, atheists, anyone. If more muslims were like her, life would be sweet

Have you tried to talk to someone about it? It’s manifesting in really ugly ways. I’ll make dua for you don’t worry . Read about forgiveness and letting go. May Allah/God/Flying spagetti monster make it easy for you.

whitelotus:



I am offended.

I just like your opinions on things.

Awh I’m sorry love. I didn’t mean to offend you.

You don’t like to hear my opinion oo. You just like to fight. I know you know lots of normal everyday Muslims. Why are you like this? They’re Muslims they believe what they believe. That’s just life. Who broke your heart?

whitelotus:



Lol...you just supported someone that defended sending death threats. Someone that defended sending a sane man to an asylum.


See your life? See the nonsense you support just to win an argunent against a non-Muslim?

Saucyxo, your fellow muslim, has warned you not to jump into problems in haste to defend Islam.

You must really like this my moniker oo. Abeg free me. We are reaching stalking stage.

whitelotus:
One would think that with sharia and all the teachings of the prophet, Saudi would be one of the few countries who managed to successfully quarantine Coronavirus.

Cc Empiree.


Saucyxo, how are you managing in the uk with thos coronavirus?

I don’t know. You should ask those living in the UK?

whitelotus:



Yeah, right.

The UK that pounds do not come easy?

Dont worry, maybe when I'm in the uk, I show you real money.

Not your fish and chips boyfriends hustling from council flats

Sure.

whitelotus:


Which money are you making in lockdown?

Ah lol money is being made all the time oo.

whitelotus:
There is an arrant hypocrisy in islam.

The Quran and muslims can insults christians, jews or unbelievers then go scott free. But when it is the other way around, muslims and the sharia call for punishment for non-muslims with blasphemy law.


Before Arabs and Christians came to colonize Nigeria, Nigerians were all pagans. All our ancestors were traditional worshippers.

Then the Quran claims that pagan religion is shirk. That to worship many gods (polytheism in pagan worship) is the gravest of sin and the mushrikun are all insolent people towards God.


The Quran and muslims can be downright abusive to other religions but it is okay. The Quran can call our ancestors liars and insolent people.

The Quran blaspheme at our ancestors' beliefs.




cc Saucyxo- who believes that atheists are rude for speaking on their own beliefs

Money haffi mekkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you pay me for my time, I’m more than willing to go back and forth with you.

tintingz:


Because of Boko Haram I call Muslims terrorists. Is this correct or false?

Again, saying the Queen is a thief is under free speech except the Queen is a dictator. A dictator will imprison you for speaking bad of them, a democratic leader will not except you're defaming his character which an offence in law.

Understand an authoritarian/totalitarian leader and democratic leader.

So because the society is oppressive we should move along with it? Wait why do we have activist or human rights protection?



Hate speech is not a crime in a free society. Why are people imprison for denying the holocaust? If this is true then it's again free speech and human rights. No human rights advocates will agree to this.

Ok, what does Islam says about blasphemy and apostasy?

So you know it's an offence you slap and you know you can use corruption to get away with it.

Like I said, retaliating with physical attack because of an insult doesn't carry same weight.



Ok.

Everything is perspective. They can say they are.


Maybe I’m not explaining this properly. It’s not illegal to insult the queen. However it is a crime to cause distress by using insults. Distress is the only thing that will happen if I call the queen a thief in front of her followers in Buckingham. Even if I write it on Facebook, everyone saw it then I went to where her followers are. Not only is it a crime to cause such distress by my speech, it is also very stupid.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial Here you go my dear. I chose Wikipedia because it’ll give you an overview.

How do you think laws are made? I’m sure you know some divine entity didn’t analyse and survey societies and an algorithm was created that would ensure civility. Man make laws as necessary and remove them as necessary. Freedom of speech and expression like any principle is not absolute. There are restrictions. Look up the law yourself.

Lol so ? That’s Nigerian society lol. See I’m not saying you shouldn’t fight it. We have history books and the entire world here on our phones. Google how human rights activists fight. But let’s be serious here, he wasn’t there to create civil bridge building relationships, my guy wanted trouble and he got it. Is it fair ? No lol but that’s his fault. It’s so stupid.

Have a lovely day though!

whitelotus:


I like it when you call me "babe".

I saw a nice thing ah if you don’t think it’s nice that’s your own lol wetin concern me

whitelotus:


I'm sure you have heard of Martin Luther King. MLK.

He was arrested for preaching equality in America during a period of segregation. This was someone exercising his freedom of speech and many white people found it disrespectful that he wanted equality.

The point here is that you are no different from passively racist white people, as opposed to the actively racist white people. The actively racist white people felt that MLK should be arrested and silenced for speaking up against racial injustice. The passively racist white people felt that he was an uppity nigger that should stop being disrespectful (but didnt see a need for him to be arrested). The only good white people were the ones that either lent their voices in support or joined him at the protests.


You are sounding like a passive bigot in claiming that the atheist is not innocent for speaking up on his beliefs or lack thereof. You claiming that it is not palatable for Nigeria is very ignorant given the fact that you neither live in Nigeria nor do you speak for Nigeria as a whole.

What did the atheist say that was disrespectful? Try and answer that.

Great! I love MLK. MLK preached in church then got a backing and then preached in black areas. He had many white supporters. He made strategic and CRUCIAL alliances. He talked and created bridges. MLK didn’t understandably wake up, decide to go to white neighbourhoods and start calling them racist bigoted trash one day. Because he knew that was plain silly. It would get him arrested and put in jail and his mission wouldn’t be accomplished. If you look at MLK’s motives, it was often to reach an agreement. To have civil discussions and relay the frustrations of black Americans. Not to insult white people. In what world would that have worked? “Good” white people supported MLK because he wanted equality. If he was calling them vile creatures and saying they were trash I’m sure there would be no “good” white people.

Whooooo told you I don’t live in Nigeria? Anyways, it’s just reality. Nigeria doesn’t practice freedom of speech, it doesn’t make sense that you demand it to be practiced in the most sensitive way.

tintingz:
Again, saying white people are trash is hasty or faulty generalization, IT'S FALSE. Maybe you don't know what hasty generalization is. Link below.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization

How is it false ?

This was a comparable analogy. You are allowed to visit the queens house. The queen is a thief. If I called her that in her home amongst her followers, I promise you something will start and I will spend a night in prison. Common sense tells me that.

That is exactly the kind of society Nigeria is. An oppressive society. You know this, I know this, He knew this. What did he think would happen? His freedom of expression also allows him to wear army camouflage clothes. Again, I’m privileged to live in a society where there would be consequences for my actions. I am held accountable by my societal standards. The societal standards would make that unacceptable. There are lots of things the law doesn’t allow me to do that I’ll do and no one will care. In both the USA and most European countries, Jaywalking is actually against the law. In the USA I’m sure the police officers would give you a huge smile while you jaywalk not so much in Norway. Their societal standards finds jaywalking to be far more transgressing. Germany you can’t denounce the holocaust and love hitler it’s a crime. I’m sure you know Germany holds the virtue freedom of expression much higher than that of Nigeria. Many people have been arrested and imprisoned for denying the holocaust all over Europe. There are hate speech laws all over Europe. Even if there weren’t, Maybe it’s just me. It’s 100% complete common sense not to be around Muslims and call one of the most important figures a murderer. I wouldn’t even need to tell my 3 year old cousin that.

Anyways, like I’ve said before and I will say again. I don’t agree with his arrest, however, I don’t believe this is peculiar to Islam and Muslims. I would slap you if you came to my house and called my sister a thief even if my sister has been caught stealing 200000000x and it was on FOX news. Especially if I know I could get away with it in Nigerian society.

I see that you’re here to go back and forth and money haffi mekkkkkkkkkkkkk. There’s people in this world making money and I can’t imagine wasting that time being unproductive.

I have lots of atheist friends and I find that there are two types of people: people who respect your beliefs but ask to understand even if they don’t agree, and people who skim over information so they can have something to say to seem knowledgeable. You’re only talking to yourself. This is just a random forum online. You don’t make money, you can only gain knowledge. Good and bad knowledge. I completely understand why someone would be atheist. I see reason and logic in their actions. My friends completely understand why I’m Muslim. They see reason and logic in my actions. That’s that. When I see something about atheism that blows my mind, I read about it and ask them in order for me to understand and vice versa. I’m sure you can find something more productive to do with your time. If you want to ask a question please ask. However, I’m not going back and forth with you about your state of mind. Lol I’m not here to change your mind.

whitelotus:



There are different parts of Surrey. Surrey is near london and so, many people live there just to get to London.

Take East Surrey for example with farms and farmlands. Very little muslims there and I know for a fact that the nearest mosque from the house I stayed in was miles and miles away. This is east Surrey.

Muslims are only 2.2% of the population of Surrey. Move away from the centre and you would stop seeing muslims.

Then take Nigeria as another example. You will hardly see any muslim charity in the south south of Nigeria. When you go to many remote villages, the only charities you see are Christian charities. Mind you, I am an atheist.

Let's call a spade a spade. Your Zakat is a waste.

Not here to go back and forth with you babe.

Empiree:
Go ahead. I have been waiting to hear. I thought you slept on your keyboard

Lol my advice. Send me a temporary email address please. You know we can’t be giving advice in public

whitelotus:



Then, one can easily also say that you stating that there is God is offensive .

Go to the bible belt in America and they will tell you that your Islam is disrespectful to their Jesus.

I think we should be careful in describing innocent people. The atheist guy is innocent period. Calling him disrespectful is paying lip service to the crazy conservative muslims

No I’m sorry I don’t agree. I don’t think he’s innocent. He is aware of lawless society he lives in. He is aware that freedom of expression is not one practised here in Nigeria. It wasn’t made with Nigerian in mind and certainly not for the consumption of Nigerian society currently. He is aware he went to far right conservative Muslim state. He wasn’t looking for a conversation or to learn or to discuss with Muslims. He was looking to offend and disrespect. I don’t agree with the consequences but I don’t believe it is peculiar to Islam.

whitelotus:



He is expressing his rights guaranteed by the constitution. You can find it silly just as I find believing in fairy tales that Muhammad sliced the moon in two to be silly.

I'm happy this is going international

I completely agree with you. Please read my reply to tinting.z.

tintingz:


Going to the KKK to say white people are trash is hasty generalization, not all white people support KKK, so it's a fallacy to begin with.

Like I said, if your belief isn't publicly expressed e.g blocking roads, attack physically on non-believers, disturb with microphones etc no one will criticize your beliefs but it's actually the case.

You can have any belief in your thoughts, you can have the thought of belief to kill everyone, no one has problem with that but the moment you express it in public then be ready to be criticized. It's tit for tat, you have free right to express your beliefs and I've same right to criticize it.

Criticism always come with a pay e.g disrespect, offensive etc no matter how it's constructive you will find some statement offensive.

If a book talked about a man going about and attacking people, calling such man a serial killer is actually what it's but this will sound offensive to his followers, not that I didn't just call the man a serial killer publicly, the followers are disturbing us with his ideology which is affecting the society.

Whether he was disrespectful is not the case, I don't care if I'm called disrespectful but taking actions for airing my views is what that's disrespectful. You're free you express your beliefs I'm free to express mine.

The Qur'an called non-believers loosers, hell dwellers, sinners and disrespect their ideology, you think no one take that offensive?, So non-believers also do same. So it's tit for tat.

If you have issues with disrespecting people's beliefs, start criticizing your Qur'an.

Empiree is a Muslim, I’m a Muslim and we have quite different views. Different sects of Islam have different views. The KKK believe all whites are superior. Regardless of if white people agree with that or not. I’m allowed to say white people are inherently trash. It may not be false.

Anyways. It doesn’t matter. A part of growing up is becoming more aware and sensitive to your surroundings. This isn’t a matter of the law, it’s a matter of maturity and living with people. The analogies you made don’t apply to this scenario. If I lived amongst thieves and murderers, I wouldn’t go around condemning the act even though I have the right to. It’s very silly. It’s not heroic by any sense and would more than likely get me killed. It’s about being aware of the environment you are occupying.

I agree with you sir! In an ideal world, free speech should reign but that’s not the reality. It is irresponsible to occupy and share a space with people that are different from you and you condemn them and expect no consequences. That won’t happen. I should be able to go to the Queens house and call her a thief but I’ll more than likely be kicked out and given a hefty fine for harassment and pubic misconduct. That’s just life.

He was aware of his surroundings and he CHOSE to disrespect people who are strong and callous in their belief. Come on, I’m sure you can see that’s not Islam’s fault. If you came to my house and I was singing my mums praises and you called my mum a ***** I will absolutely smash a bottle on your head lol. Even if she had been arrested 50,000 times for that exact same thing and it was publicised. That’s human nature. And you’d do the same. There are ways to go about getting things. Luckily, I live in a society that allows you to say such with no consequences. Northern Nigeria is not that society. He knows it. You know it and I know it. The people who fought for the freedom of speech you’re flinging about didn't flaunt it in order to earn it. They were strategic. Do I think it was wrong for him to be arrested? Absolutely, judging by my societal standards but I’m not the judge here, it’s a northerner. I do think it was highly stupid and reckless.

I don’t understand what the Quran has to do with this. Please note: I’m not interested in useless debates. I’m here to learn and share what I know. A broken clock is right twice a day. However, if you read things to retort or just for debate purposes please count me out!

whitelotus:


I'm not impressed. Mosques and islamic charities only distribute in areas where there are muslims.

I can tell you for a fact that there are many places in the UK countryside that you will never see a muslim charity

Nope that’s not true! There are ALOT of Muslims in the UK. This happened in Surrey which is just outside London. The area is very very suburban.

Empiree:
I actually read that wrong. I didnt pay full attention. I thought you wrote "can I get some advice?"

So can I give you?

tintingz:


Saying KKK are trash is different from saying they're racist even though it still complement each other. There's nothing silly about it, it's them that are being dishonest.

Most beliefs are expressed publicly, so they public matters, we're disturbed with these beliefs publicly on daily bases, so they shouldn't have problem when they're criticized.

If your belief is private and you disturb no one with it, I don't think anyone will even think of criticizing your belief.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I didn’t say KKK is trash. I said white people are trash. The core stereotypical belief of KKK members is upholding white supremacy. I think this is crazy as do you I’m sure. However, this is their belief and they are entitled to that. If I’m in an environment that is governed by such core beliefs it is very irresponsible for me as a singular entity to publicly and aggressively go against such beliefs. I’m not saying Im not or I shouldn’t be entitled to, but it’s rather silly isn’t it? If the case of the guy being arrested happened in the North, while I don’t agree with it, I wouldn’t consider him innocent. I would consider him quite disrespectful.

Empiree:
about what?

Lol always on the defence. Yourself

Empiree:
Your Queen now. Or you no dey live in the UK again?

I’m not British abeg.

Can I give you some advice?