₦airaland Forum

paddy_lo:
all u nigerians in u.k. . .make una no go die for there oh?
na so una go dey come here dey misyarn dey defend that miserable country wey dem call uk
some of una don even sell una souls to the queen. . .

una no go gree say nothing special about u.k lol. . .
give me naija sunshine over that nonsense freezing weather anyday. . .

Ignorance is an STD!!!!

Emperoh:
Enough of this money talk and some footie pls
How much of these dough do u and i get?

Pls some footie talks abeg!!

UK weather have sabotaged this week's football issues.
Lets talk about money or letz talk about Berbatov's mercurial skills.

debosky:
We shall see when this year's figures are released. Only a deluded person will feel the recession will not impact club finances.

This year's figures will be higher.
The TV deal was re-engineered and the league winner will take a better pay package than last season's Champions.
The EPL is a goldmine. . . . . . .It can't be touched.

Will those revenues rise forever? It's adverts that pay for the enormous revenues - if the companies involved are affected by the recession and cut down advertising, don't you realise that will impact how much sky and co can offer for TV rights?

Man Utd is a global brand.
Without any shadow of a doubt, 80% of foreign TV companies pay to watch Man Utd.
Arsenal and Chelsea are just benefiting from a collective TV deal and i hope the Glazers break out and sell their matches independently.

Not an end, but a dip in the next 2-3 years as the recession takes it's toll on football.

It's the consumers that will suffer, not the club.
Match tickets will sky-rocket and Merchandise will become designer gear.

We shall see if that is feasible - and this option is not only open to Utd, but to any of the top 4 clubs as well.

Who wants to watch the Arses?
Your lack of trophies have disabled your chances of hitting the global status.
The Asians are keen on watching Evra and Ji Sung Park.

Premature judgments my friend - the largest chunk of income still comes from stadium takings - if the £100m takes a hit, the club will be affected. Their concerns are genuine.

This is where i am 100% certain Arsenal and United can NEVER be affected.
There are more than 4 million Man Utd fans in queue for season tickets. 80% of them have been waiting for 3 years.
Naija fans in the UK will fill the terraces of the Emirates every given week if the stadium expands to 120,000(never mind other nationals).
Football is a religion in this country. No amount of recession can affect the top clubs.

I'm not talking about missed payments - no payments have been missed IMO, but the debt is GROWING, and if Utd's debt grew in probably it's most successful season commercially till date that is WORRYING. If you can't begin to pay down debt when you're at the very top what happens when the inevitable dip in performance occurs?

Debosky amuses me. Are you a member of MUST?

Don't intertwine United and Red Football accounts as if United's asset value, revenues or operating profits depended upon Red Football. They don't. It's the other way around. Again, if I were buying United, I'd negotiate with Red Football but the deal would be to remove Red Football from the equation, not retain them and their debts. So again, the important thing for an investor is how are United doing? Not how are the vendors doing?

Red Football depend entirely on United being profitable over the medium term (at least as long as the loan term plus some), so that they can pay off the loans and then turn a profit themselves. To continue to make sufficient profits United need to be sucessful on the park and it is therefore inconceivable that they would do anything to seriously jeopardise that. They would be lessening their potential to pay the loans off, they'd be reducing the revenues, operating profits and asset values of Red Football's only real assets. That isn't going to happen.

tkb417:
lmao

but Sauron, your rise has been meteoric
thts good

I had to sack the geriatric manager(Avram Grant) i had. . . .
Rinus Michels is winning this league. . . . .I paid the best part of £30 million to secure his services.

5 weeks ago, i was 36th on the table.

debosky:
Wrong comparison dude - how many mortgage holders are unable to meet interest payments with their mortgage GROWING yearly instead of reducing? That is unsustainable. Utd's revenues will not rise forever - a blip will occur sooner or later. . . .what then?

United's revenue will rise FOREVER. . . . . .Look at the past 5 seasons since the Glazers joined.
TV deals keep improving. More football fans are watching.
Setanta Sports/ESPN are selling EPL matches to gullible Americans who are paying through their nose to watch Rooney and Arshavin.
There's no END to this. . . . .until 1 billion football fans in the world lose interest in football entirely. . .do you really see that happening?

We have not even factored United breaking away to sell their own games to independent broadcasters like Real Madrid, have we?

Utd’s debt is not even being serviced properly - it’s GROWING - it is only if Utd profits keep GROWING to meet this growing debt is when you can rest assured. The MUST is not as confident as you are - they are worried about softening ticket demand.
No I’m not silly - but it’s foolishness to rejoice if you make a pound on a single aspect of your business when you need 5 pounds to pay off your expenses.

The MUST are retarded. Useless individuals that are suffering from Xenophobia.
If we factor their fears from day one, United woulda been relegated. They have predicted all gloom and doom but United have had their best run in the club's history under the Glazers. 3 EPL titles on a bounce and 2 UCL finals is unprecedented.
The MUST should go hug a transformer in Yaba.

If this profit is continually used to pay only interest and the debt grows, sooner or later the creditors will come calling.

Have you even seen this statement?
Are you aware the Glazers haven't paid the hedge funds + the accrued interest and are only due to pay em until June 2010, which accounts for the difference in interest owed and paid.
That's the payments schedule in the agreement but you and the MUST crew choose to portray that as missed payments.
I am 100% certain this is something that you obviously didn't pick up when you read the accounts.

BlueDiva:
Funny you compare BB to a league one side.
Anyways, i guess you guys can face the EPL and the UCL squarely.

Who want's that "worthless" FA cup anyways? . . .

We walked out on the competition in 2000.
That was after winning it in 1999. .Fergie and his lads went to Brazil to play a needless competition at the expense of the [b]F[/b]uck [b]A[/b]ll Cup.

United is due for an Arab takeover.

Abu Dhabi, please!!!!

slimshay:
Common Sauron do the mathc. Man U made £66 mill, and it was used to service the interest of RFJVL and one is different from the other? Wake up man, if infact Man U is a cash cow, it is a cash cow that is being used to service the debt the Glazers are incurring in other business ventures. And now we know why £80mill for R7 didnt go back to player investments.

Can you please get some perspective?
Firstly, you came here to say the accounts are the same and i have showed you where MUFC made profits and RFJV made losses.
How can the same account make Profit and Loss in the same financial year. . . . .

The price money alone is £2mill, TV earning per match more than quater a mill, each win is about £100,000,  man U gate takings goes into millions so please your £1.5mill here doesnt wash.

You are talking crap.
Last season,

United made £52.3million on EPL,  £33.7million on UCL and £4.0million on other cups to record £90.0m
Chelsea made £48.4million(EPL) £27.7million(UCL) and  £5.1million(FA Cup winners/CC) to cop £81.2m
So you are telling me because United lost to Leeds FC, they are in crisis? Are you high on Shepe?

When you are wallowing in as much debt as you are, every kobo counts, so i advise you flog foster out too. Though whether u will get £750,000 for him is highly debatable.  

We got £750,000 on a geriatric Silvestre.
Surely, Foster's market value should be about £5 million.

BlueDiva:
^^^^^
I see you're back.
Nothing like a good rest after that devastating loss.

What is devastating in losing a cup tie?
Chelsea got kicked out of CC by a lowly-rated Blackburn FC. Was that a devastating loss?
United have bigger priorities. . . . .EPL and the UCL. Other competitions are just a bonus.

slimshay:
Someone said the only reason Arsh shldnt be able to play is if the snow get to 5ft!!! 

Yes o Suara, very crowded  , this FA cup sef *gloats again* na wa oh!!! 

The healthy/safety of the fans is the KEY not the players.
SKYSPORTS admitted the pitch is perfect but transportation to the ground is chaotic and the health/safety of the travelling fans is at risk.

debosky:
What is delusional about it - by the same token, Arsenal Holdings is different from Arsenal FC? That's simply missing out on the crucial fact that, IF RFJV were to default, OT could be sold to recoup the loans. That means till RFJV either pay off the debt completely or remove the debt connection to Utd's assets, they are inextricably linked.

IF RFJV were to DEFAULT. . . . is a big hypothetical statement.
How can they ever default? Stadium expansion project continues this year, OT is going 85,000.
United's debt is like a regular Joe with a mortgage. If he defaults, they will take his house but what if he doesn't?
By the same token, 98% of house owners in the UK/USA are debtors and are in CRISIS.

figures as true -that means, BEFORE paying interest Utd had £80m as profits. The crucial question is WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS PROFIT? It was used by the Glazers to part pay for the loan interest and part spent on players and other things (Berba’s purchase). The end result is a £44m LOSS for the holding company overall.

The profit was used to improve the club.
Young players were acquired and some of them were used to pay for the loan interest.
This now is the parent company using what United made to service it's debt. As long as United keep making money, they are SAFE!!!!

Of what value is a profit that gets swallowed up by interest payments? RFJV own 100% of Utd so any debt they owe is Utd debts by default.
What isn’t clear at the moment is the level of cash reserves held by Utd.

Are you saying United are better off without it's profits?
If the profit has no value then try a LOSS. . . . .Of course, the profit is keeping United afloat and as long as fans and TV companies are interested, United will forever be a goldmine.

If I was interested in playing this silly game with you, I’d claim that Arsenal FC made £62.7m profit on the football aspect of things and claim that is the club’s profit, neglecting to factor in debt repayments that are made annually for the stadium debt.

Arsenal FC made £62.7m profit.
What the owners decided to do with this profit is a different matter entirely.
The fact is Arsenal FC are generating profit.

Only a joker would believe the separation you are trying to feed us here - the BBC article (News article not Peston’s opinion piece) quotes RFJV’s group turnover as £256.2m (identical to the figure you quote) £21.8m profit on player transfers. These go to show that they are one and the same in terms of finance. The parent company of Utd is RFJV so you cannot separate the accounts at present.

That article is senseless and this was why i called it lazy journalism.
See a different version here. . . . On the surface things look rosy enough. United remain the most effective money-maker in the world's richest league, generating record turnover of £256 million in 2007-08, a wonderful season on the pitch that ended with retention of the Premier League title and victory in the Champions League final.

Those titles generated a 50 per cent increase in media revenues to £90.4 million, augmented by £101 million in match-day revenue from Old Trafford, up around 10 per cent on 2007, and commercial income rose by 14 per cent to £64 million. Taken together this generated an operating profit in the football club accounts of £66 million

While the football club showed an operating profit, Red Football Ltd recorded a loss of £21.4 million, and Red Football Joint Ventures Ltd a loss of £44.8 million, due in large part to interest costs during the year of £68.8 million.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope you now understand the accounts of RFJV and MUFC are 2 different entities.

See me at 6pm at Canada Square with your £5000 in used banknotes.

Is that 5000 Biafran Pounds?

slimshay:
Sauron ive been reading your arguments and its all being propped up by the fact that the holding company is different from the Clubv. As far as club finances go, that is a bogus claim. The holding company ran debts to high heavens to acquire the club. The debt is being serviced through the earnings of the club. So really how seperate is the holding company from the club.

Sadly the Glazers are not Abrahamovic that can just right off the debt because this debt is acctually owned to financial institutions. servicing it is becoming a problem in this current financial climate. The sharks are looking for ways to make their money back hence the bond issue. Dont be deceived by the big names JP Morgans and what not. the debt is still very much real. And if not serviced accordingly, MAN Us finances, inocmes and spending will be determioned solely by the suits who have no iota of allegiance to the club. Exactly what is happening to Portsmouth. And if that time comes, you will only be able to buy Aibeen Dere because he's some hot star in the middle east. Make no mistakes, they want their money back. £800b s no joke.

You are talking via your arse. . . . . .RFJV and Man Utd are 2 different organisations.
They both run independent accounts.

Luckily Man U seems to be a decent footballing side and quite popular in some markets so good showing on the pitch may generate income to put the sharks at bay, but just. Thre is a reason Fergie is mad at early exit form the cup. Revenue, not the relatively small token you get from winning, but the substantial gate takings on match day.

Revenue in Cups is bullshit.
How much did United make in all their cup runs last season including FIFA club world cup? £4 million.
So, we are saying CC + FA Cup + Community Shield + FIFA trip to Japan = £4 million.
Getting kicked out of FA cup cannot be more than £1.5 million. . . . . Fergie can raise that by selling Foster to Arsenal.

slimshay:
^^^Oh hell nah!!! Not witgh our already crowded fixtures. FA cup *gloats* UCL and the sinister 'randomly' generated match fixtures at the end of this month!!!

Crowded?
I didn't see any Carling cup fixture in Arsenal's fixture list so how are your fixtures crowded?

Ujujoan:
Pls dont let me stop you guys from continuing with your mindless chatter. And while you are @ it, try adding a lil more fun with the pictures of your 'chickc' . . .  somehow all the talks about booties is getting boring!  

Ujujoan is a bit grumpy today - what happened?

Ibime's investment on Arsenal players this week has bitten his Ijaw backside.
His managerial nous can be compared to that of a 2-year-old baboon.

BREAKING NEWS: Arsenal's game against Bolton has been postponed . . . . 
I told Debosky today's weather in London would be worse than an avalanche.
God loves Sauron.

Ibime is the biggest LOSER.

debosky:
TKB - these are the relevant figures:

So the total annual interest bill was just under £70m (including rolled-up interest).

That compares with a net cash inflow from operating activities (largely profit before interest and taxation) of £88m.

So in that year, if Man Utd did not want to increase its overall level of debt, it had less than £20m to spend on players and other investments.

In fact, it spent £43m - so its indebtedness increased, by just under £33m to £699m gross in total.

Utd is profitable - making £88m is no joke, but when interest ALONE is £70m, how much can you possibly spend?  

United have spent more money since the takeover than what they have spent before their arrival.

You are lumping RFJV with Man Utd which is delusional. The holding company and United are 2 different entities.
The reports you keep printing about United spending £43 million is grossly incorrect.
--------------------------------------------
Earnings/Revenue - £257m

Cash expenses - £147m

EBITDA - £110m

Depreciation - £10m

Amortisation - £40m

Profit on disposal of players - +£20m(This value was before Ronaldo's sale)

Pre-tax profit - £80m
---------------------------------------------
Fergie will spend if he finds a good player out there but he wouldn't spend out of panic.
Besides, most selling clubs know Ronaldo's £80 milla is burning a hole in SAF's butt pocket and any player United wanna buy now will be overpriced.

P.S. This weather is getting unbearable, CHRIST!!!!!
Who can get me Iraqi visa?

ritchboy:
Is Sauron talking about the same club that couldnt raise money to buy a youngster AFTER the deal had been AGREED?!

United couldn't nail the youngster because his work permit application got declined by the Home Office.
It has nothing to do with money cos United had already paid half of his fees when Tosic joined.

debosky:
Spambot  - i'll get it reported.
to summarize - Arsenal's holding company are making a profit - i.e paying off it's loans as and when due with something left over. Utd's holding company are making a loss.

United have not made any loss since The Glazers took over in 2005.
Stop fibbing, there's a big difference between RFJV and Man Utd.
RFJV was set up when the Glazers took over. It's income balance from the start was £800 million(debt).

A bond is still a debt, regardless of who owes it.

No one is disputing that.

Furthermore, I have every reason to doubt the debt to value ratio of forbes - If Utd is worth $1.8bn and owes £650m, and Arsenal is worth $1.2bn and owes ~£300m  (debt of ~£400m and cash reserves of ~£100m) then that Forbes ratio is definitely faulty somewhere or massively outdated.

Outdated?
Those calculations were made based on the statements of accounts posted by all the football clubs in Europe.
Your debt is more than £300 million. The amount expected from selling the flats at the Emirates diminished cos the housing market is in a mess.

Utd makes more revenue - there is no doubt about that, and the income before taxes and interest and co is still greater, BUT once you take out taxes and the massive interest payments that Utd need to make, what you end up with is a LOSS. Arsenal on the other hand, after paying all it owes ends up with a PROFIT.

You are talking bollocks.
Go and learn the meaning of operating income. . . . .United's EBITDA is massive.
You are mixing Red Football with Man Utd. . . . .They are 2 different organisations.

There is no clearer measure than that right there.

Quote your EBITDA, Operating Profit and Operating Income and let me quote mine and letz see who's in a bigger mess?

agabaI23:
Sauron will surely help out.

I am not a GAYnner so don't expect me to help GAYnners out.
However, i heard they have already shipped out baboons to the Emirates to clear the snow.

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/1/5/1262729080876/Baboons-at-Knowsley-Safar-001.jpg

debosky:
Evil boy. . . Arsenal has underground pitch heating and we'll get the unemployed youth of London to clear the roads for us.

Nateevs
Eldee
Ibime
agabaI23
Duduspace.

Omo, dem plenty.

Arsenal MUST play and Klasnic, Nasri and Arshavin must score. . . .with Arsenal winning of course.

The safety of the fans is the biggest concern.
Players can take care of themselves.

debosky:
You miss the point - you will still owe the money won't you?  

But the repayments and the interest rate won't be as ambiguous as what the Glazers copped in 2005.
With JP Morgan Chase or other investment banks - there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Don't try to sound smart - this bond is to reduce the potentially calamitous compounding of debt at 14.5% which has the potential to overtake the lower interest rate (2-5%) loan by achieving a manageable rate of 8% overall.

The bond issue being weighed up by the club would help it pay back some of its existing debt to banks, hedge funds and other financial institutions, which are estimated at about £700m. . . . . .This is the FACT!!!!

Wrong - Utd won the CC last season and that was part of the reason you got as much money last season. CL remains yes, but the FA cup still pays a significant amount of money - live games earned from 150k to 265k per game, 1m for winning the cup and various prizes for making successive rounds of the game.

Have we lost out in the CC this season to suggest we won't make as much income?
We are in the Semis - Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool have all been kicked OUT so we are still on course to repeat last season's feat.

Leeds game does matter - it means Utd has lost the opportunity to make at least 2m - for a club with ballooning debt, this begins to make a difference. While the premiership and the CL pay about 30m each and make up the bulk of the revenue, you can't be complacent with a growing debt overhang.

Ronaldo's sale has covered up for contingencies like Leeds game.
We made £80 milla in the summer from Madrid, remember? The extra £2 million we lost for not winning the FA cup is a spoon out of Pacific Ocean.

Who did the valuation? What was it based on? The crux of the matter is our debt is REDUCING - FACT.

Forbes n Deloitte.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes'_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs
Examine that table carefully and tell me United's debt is anywhere near CRISIS.
Look at the operating income posted by United in comparison with other useless clubs in the EPL.
Level pass level, Debo.  Arsenal n United are not on the same level.

Assets are not the key - if you fail to meet your payments your value as a going concern will reduce - if you are forced to sell assets to make up payments, you further reduce the ability to compete and the spiralling can go on.

Assets are the KEY.
Without your assets, you wouldn't have secured the loans in the first place.
Despite United's unprecedented debt, they are still ranked the number 1 club in the world. So much for this debt nonsense.

Who cares? You make more and owe significantly more - it's like a man who makes 10,000 but owes 60,000 laughing at another who makes 8,000 but owes only 30,000.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/34/soccer-values-09_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

United's debt value ratio is 54%, yours is 107%
I repeat, Level pass level.
It's like comparing the £5000 you owe to Dangote's £500 million debt. He sleeps better at night than you do.

Again, the wage bill for Arsenal is for ALL staff, including directors, Wenger and backroom staff, not player wages.

Don't twist the schitzo, it's the players' wage bill.
I can print it out if you want me to.

Whether we win titles or not, the club continues to compete and make comparable income in the premiership and CL, and are paying down their debt - the future is very bright financially for the club.

Arsenal's revenue(2009) - $349 million
Chelsea's revenue            $424 million

United's revenue               $512 million.

I don't even want to talk about the operating income. United's income doubled Arsenal's in 2009.
Ma guy, it's not comparable and you are not competing.

We shall see - Leeds was in the top 4 before their precipitous exit from the top division began. Nothing is impossible. Juventus had won back to back to back Serie A titles but went to division two.

Juventus cheated!
Matter of fact, they won their league before being sent to Division 2.
They didn't relegate based on points, it was purely a boardroom decision.

That said, no one is saying disaster - you need to reduce your debts in a manageable manner or ensure that you massively increase profit to over 100m to afford 70m interest payments and the ability to spend 30m each post season.
Your debt cannot keep growing indefinitely - if you are making less than your interest payments, you will be in trouble sooner or later.

My calculations say all those nonsense are bollocks.
Glazers took a loan of £800 million in 2005. By your estimation, this debt shoulda increased to £10 billion but it's lower.
What we owe now is less than £700 million and if you consider the fall of GB pounds to the dollar, United haven't done badly at all.

Selling out games does not mean debt can grow indefinitely - sooner or later something will need to be cut  to remedy the debt situation.

I laugh in Swahili.
Selling out games means more revenue and effectively more operating income.
United is a goose with golden eggs. Not even another World War can bring United down.

agabaI23:
I won't doubt you judging from your conquest in nairaland. However what baffles me is that you only go to Ipswich or Yorkshire when a United loss.

The problem is ABUs don't do their nonsensical nitpicking whenever United win games.
Do you bovver to check who is online or not when we pound clubs like Arsenal and Wigan? The answer is NO!!!

Such a coincidence is not normal naturally otherwise you would won the euromillions if you ever tried it .You are probably right. That is why Fergie is axing 3/4 of the players that featured in the game including you efficient Berbaflop.

Berbatov is superiorly talented.
His team mates let him down with their lethargic display on Sunday.
Berbapass to Rooney to set Wazza one on one with Leeds' goalie was wasted. . . . . .His telepathic pass to find Welbeck in the 2nd half was also squandered.

Berbatov's problem is his team-mates.
When he plays as a centre-forward, his team-mates dont make intelligent passes to him. They either under-hit or over-hit their passes.
When Berba plays too deep, his telepathic passes are wasted by his team-mates.

Emma Eboue woulda scored from the pass Berba gave Rooney in the first half.
How Rooney managed to waste that chance defies all logic.
He was pathetic on the day and he should shoulder all the blame.

debosky:
The crux of the matter are these two telling figures:

So the total annual interest bill was just under £70m (including rolled-up interest).

That compares with a net cash inflow from operating activities (largely profit before interest and taxation) of £88m.

So in that year (2008), if Man Utd did not want to increase its overall level of debt, it had less than[b] £20m to spend on players and other investments.[/b]

In fact, it spent £43m - so its indebtedness increased, by just under £33m to £699m gross in total.

This is simply bollocks.
I saw the statement of account meself and United spent around £35 million in 2008/9 season
£30 milla on Berbatov and £5 milla on Tosic PLUS they recouped £2 milla from the sale of Agent Silvestre and Chris Eagles.

Surely the club cannot keep spending more than it's profit, since that will simply cause the debt to GROW. Debt cannot continue to grow indefinitely, hence the need to reduce the impact of the high interest IPK charges, but even that will not solve the problem as yet - the bulk of the debt remains and Utd will be barely paying off the INTEREST on the loan as things stand right now.

The bulk of the debt was secured with Red Football company not Man Utd.
Besides, this is a club with £1bn assets in respect of investment in stadia and other facilities and a further £450m from investment in players.
A club that is worth £1bn cannot be in crisis with a debt of £700 million. . . . .get some perspective, Debosky!!!

debosky:
A 600m bond will NOT reduce Utd debt, it will simply reduce the growth rate of the debt. Utd still are not meeting their interest payments at the moment and will be paying a HIGHER interest rate on their principal (paying 8% compared to the 2-5% at current).

One would think United owe $300 billion.
Securing £600 million loan from JP Morgan will effectively reduce the debt - This is where companies like JP Morgan Chase earn their stripes

The Glazers are simply moving from a case of paying 14.5% interest on part of the loan to paying 8% interest on the entire debt - how is that reducing debt?  

U are such a dumbass. . . . . .
Do you even know what you are talking about?
I don't want to start lecturing you this bond is all about. . . .

Stop talking out of your arse - Cashflow will reduce once you play fewer games - that is the fact of the matter, which is why the Leeds game matters. When you can't pay your interest each year and have to roll a portion of it over, you don't neglect any form of income.

Leeds game don't matter one bit. . . . .
The money clubs make from playing FA cup and Carling Cup are shyte money.
United have been kicked out of domestic club competitions in the past 3 seasons and they have posted huge profits.
Go n dust your accounting acumen - A club as big as United will not lose sleep over FA cup elimination - It is not Champions League.

Repayments being up to date is nebulous - if you're converting your interest into MORE debt instead of paying it off, can we really say repayments are up to date?

Christ - and his gibberish continues.
If we believe all these talks about United are TRUE, why aren't the sharks after the Glazers yet since things are so bad and the whole club is in CRISIS? Stop feeding off sensationalists!!!

Kindly show the evidence for this mendacious claim. Even if the above were true, Arsenal is ACTIVELY reducing it's debt, reducing it's construction loan from 135m to 47m in ONE YEAR, selling 3/4 of it's housing development already. That is a proactive reduction of debt, not requesting for a BIGGER loan than the initial loan because you haven't been able to service the initial loan.

You are not a stark illiterate. Go to Forbes and check!!!
Arsenal's debt/value ratio in 08 was 43%. . . . . .The last statement in 2009 showed y'all have ballooned it to 108%.
Y'all are in deep shyte.

Determining the 'worth' of football clubs is a shaky idea anyways, especially when not publicly traded.

How is shaky?
Assets are the KEY!!!
P.S. Football players are part of the assets we are considering + the stadium size of OT.
Let it also be known that United have the highest attendance in the whole of Europe.

And we have increased turnover by 100m , increased operating profits by 4m (excluding player trades) as well as REDUCED our debt holdings by nearly 100m. We are truly the worst team in the Premiership.

Those are just numbers used to paper over the cracks.
If we compare Arsenal's exorbitant tickets to Man Utd who charge moderately, our operation income still shytes on yours.
U have nothing on United even though our wage bill is almost the same thang plus we won TITLES too.

Granted, but you are edging closer to disaster if the debt keeps GROWING - that is the reason a bond is desperately needed.

Disaster? Man Utd?
This is not a useless London club like Arsenal or Chelsea.
We are talking of the most supported football club on the planet - English Football will cease to exist if United go down.

Who said Crisis? All we've said is, to keep things manageable, Utd will in all likelihood be less active over the next two transfer windows. Even if they are, it will involve doing deals that bring in more cash than is spent (see last summer - Ronaldo sold with Valencia and Obertan brought in).

Senseless observation.
Benzema's cash had been prepared before the Arrow decided to join Real Madrid.
You replace Ronaldo with who? Eduardo?
The only direct comparison is Messi and he wouldn't leave United so. . . . .Mr-Know-All, who coulda replaced Ronaldo in the whole of Europe?

The reality of the economic crunch is that revenue streams are feeling some pressure hence the need to ensure the debt starts  going down immediately.

We don't have that kinda problem at OT.
United have not failed yet to sell out 76,000 seats on any match-day.
Despite the gloom n doom prediction, our revenue continues to grow in leaps n bounds.

Sagamite:
How can he take Man U to lose AT HOME to a team that is NOT a Premeirship team, NOT a Championship team, but a Division one team?

How can his team be struggling with such a team with Leeds having so much chance to score? Is this not proof that Sir Alex cannot motivate the players?

See the kind of goals they are conceding. A ball over the top and the striker has only one defender with him that was too slow. Does that not show that Sir Alex has no tactical nous? Is that not proof he cannot organise his defense?

Also see as Owen and Rooney were missing the target from Box 18 when they were clearly unmarked. Is that not evidence that the players don't respect him? And the team has no pattern if they cannot score an inferior team?

And when they were losing, instead of him to stand up and organise his boys till the last minute, he went to sit down like a clueless mumu.

Does Man U not need a foreign coach like Chelsea and Arsenal? 

LWKMD when I hear people that know nothing about football. 

Haha. . . . . .Sagamite on a wind-up.
Alex Ferguson should get sacked? The devil will return back as an Angel sitting next to God before that will happen.

semid:


I love this. Now where is Sauron, a Man-U/SAF fan & Amodu's biggest critic. Make I hear wetin all those 'Sack Amodu town criers' go talk. Sag, u too much jare.

There's a difference. . . . .

SAF has won tonnes of domestic titles and several times in Europe. . . . .I think he is allowed to get it wrong sometimes.
When Amodu wins the Nations Cup ONCE(never mind doing it in a row like Egypt) then y'all should get back to me.

Amodu's lack of tactical nous is a different ball game. . . .

I just hope GAYnners game tomorrow gets cancelled. . . . . .

It has been predicted that tomorrow's snow in the SOUTH will be close to an avalanche.
Christ, please make it worse than an avalanche.

Clint Dempsey. . . . .What a BUY!!!!

agabaI23:
I checked that out yesterday and I witheld my post in case of incasity but then I am happy to have you back. I am yet to rule out that the loss did not contribute to your prolonged absence .

It's too insignificant to have kept me out. . . . . .I was uptown in Yorkshire sleeping-with Bradford babes.

In a cup tie, shiznit happens.
To Leeds, it was a World Cup final. . . . .To Ferguson, it was another needless game that might disturb his title challenge.
How many players who started in Rome started against Leeds? Rooney and Anderson. . . . .That should tell you the lack of respect we have for FA cup.

I agree the team put out shoulda beaten Leeds but it's football. . . . .shiznit happens.
Ronaldo was here when we lost to Pompey at OT. . . . .Lost to Southend a while ago when he was on the pitch.
Didn't he also feature against Derby County last season when they sodomised us at Pride Park? Would he have even started the game if he was still here?

debosky:
As usual, foul mouthed rantings without facts -
Is your interest paid in kind (IPK) not spiraling out of control? Is that not why Utd is desperate to issue a 600m bond?  

Babu common sense
Desperation to issue a 600 million bond came as a result becayse Platini/Blatter are clamping down on Club owners to reduce their debt.
Roman Abramovic just wrote off all Chelsea's debt - that should tell you something HUGE is coming this year.

The Glazers are not crack heads. . . . . .They must look for a way of reducing that debt to the barest minimum before Platini drops his hammer.

If Utd is so financially sound, how come they can't even service the INTEREST on their loans and have to convert it to principal thus further increasing their debt at a higher interest rate?  

That is because the interest rate has been up n down in the last few years.
The credit crunch didn't help as well but then the debt is not the problem because the cash flow is still firing.
Gate takings and TV deals keep improving and the boys have not disappointed on the pitch despite selling the best player in the world.

I have told you guys DEBT is not necessarily a bad thing as far as the repayments are up to date. . . . .
United is a goose that lays golden eggs and for that. . . . .there can never be a CRISIS at OT.
It's the home of the Champions and the achievement in the last 3 seasons speaks for itself.

Arsenal are in contrast paying down their debt as evidenced in the last report so what are you crowing about?

Your debt/value ratio is 108%. . . . . .U owe more than you are worth.
If that is not crisis on it's own then i dunno what CRISIS means.
Arsenal are the worst-run club in the EPL bar Portsmouth and that is because you can still pay players' wages. . . .

The need to mention selling TV rights to mediapro shows the club is close to being in dire straits and will need to look for fresh income to service the Glazers' loans.

Selling TV rights to mediapro is the last ammo we have got - but trust me, it won't get to that!!!
United are still going to play the Semis of Carling Cup tomorrow and probably end up in Wembley in February.

They also have a tasty UCL tie with Milan(Beckham's return) that will be beamed across the world thus upping the ante as far as TV money is concerned.
United are just 2 points below the league leaders irrespective of what Arsenal play tomorrow.
Can someone tell me how this club is in CRISIS?

No2Atheism:
First Ipswich

Now Yorkshire . . .


Soon Sauron would become a persona non grata in UK cities at this rate of seeking refuge during the time of great loss by ManUtd.

Unlike you, i have a life i cherish. . . .i don't sit around on Nairaland during festive period like a loser that you are.
If you paid any attention to details, i hadn't posted since the 31st of December. . . .Had United lost to Leeds as at then?
When simpletons like you conclude the only reason people don't post is because of a loss then you really need to take your head out of your arse.

I wouldn't desert United if they relegate to conference league. . . . .so up YOURS!!!

agabaI23:
Wow Sauron in the house! The yorkshire 'ripper' is back.
Welcome back.
We missed you

Thanks Mr. agabaI23.

Arsenal(3 competitions to play for)
Chelsea(3 competitions to play for)
Liverpool(2 competitions to play for)

United(3 competitions to play for) and United are in CRISIS?
I love ma club. . . .the expectation is so high that a single bad result is a crisis in United whereas 5 seasons without a TROPHY is an achievement for Arsenal.

chamotex:
Welcome back . . .
Apparently, they've concluded that you must have committed suicide because we lost to Leeds, hence, your disappearance.
I told them you were on vacation but they did not believe me

Suicide because United lost to Leeds?
It's a cup tie, innit? Did i commit suicide when Coventry came to OT and 'mosquito' bit us TWICE and knocked us out of Carling Cup?
Who gives a rat about FA cup? It's basically designed for perennial losers like Arsenal n Chelsea. . . .Teams who cannot win the EPL/UCL.

debosky:
An interesting article posted by Robert Peston of the BBC on Man Utd's financial situation.

Despite the rantings of Sharon that Utd can 'afford' to waste £30m on Berba even with no end product, the reality is distinctly bleaker:

The club is seeking ANOTHER loan (or bond for the investment bankers) to prevent it's current inability to pay off interest on existing loans from ballooning out of control. In essence (correct me Tkb if I'm wrong) the interest not paid now is converted into principal, and that in turn gets charged at a higher interest rate than the initial part of the loan. If this isn't managed well, the interest eventually becomes larger than the loan and you're in a very big mess.

As a result, Utd didn't spend the CR7 money, not because they didn't find value, but because they couldn't afford it and are hoping that the shortage of money in football (outside Real Madrid and Citeh of course) will reduce some of the hefty transfer fees and thus help the club buy better players for less money in the summer.

All in all, it shows that the FA cup exit is costly - fewer games will be played this year compared to last and a reduction in revenue will occur (minus the 'profit' on CR7's transfer of course)

Read more here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/01/can_man_utd_spend.html

Any thoughts?

This is the biggest pile of [i]w[/i]ank i have read on BBC and it's lazy journalism from the peak to it's base.

Arsenal were kicked out of Carling Cup but it doesn't affect their debt/value ratio that is 108% already with the flats at the Emirates being sold at a loss BUT Fergie's machine will halt because they lost a game at OT to Leeds? What a joke!!!!
When are these lazy journalists in the UK going to learn that waiting for United to crumble would take another millennium.

The debt United owe has nothing to do with the performance.
United have won BIG in the last 3 seasons to cover up for any contingency that might arise either this season or for the foreseeable future.
As a matter of fact, if the debt spirals out of control. . . .the bottom 12 clubs would be out of business cos United will simply sell their games to an independent broadcaster like Madrid did with Mediapro!!! That is when Arsene Wenger's world might even collapse.

Debosky even went as far as United didn't spend the Ronaldo cash because they couldn't afford it?
Under the Glazers alone, United spent a record £60 million pounds in 2007/8 season acquiring Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves and Tevez(on loan).
Retards like Mr. Preston spewed gloom n doom then that United would never be able to shell mad cash on players.

Just last season, Fergie splashed £30 milla on Berbatov when other big clubs like Chelsea and Arsenal were sitting on their asses.
To think United would crumble because of the nonsense TV money they will get from e-on is laughable.
United's main income is in the EPL where we rake in £480,000 per every league game showed on TV, FA cup and Carling cup are small amounts that might mean heavens to clubs like Arsenal and Chelsea but in United, they are used to grow the pitch.


Write off United at your own peril. . . . .

chamotex:
I can't believe some people on here are saying 'Fergie has lost it' . . . Are you for real? 
I'm disappointed in y'all.   _{shakes head in pity}

Jesus Christ, what have i missed?

A mini-Holiday to Yorkshire and i see bile, cordite, sweats and semen splashed on our Champions Thread.
Lemme go back and read the homo-[i]e[/i]rotic gibberish spewed by the [i]W[/i]anker-In-Chief(Debosky) and his association of mental handicaps.

Brb. . . . .

agabaI23:
Na wa oo
Sauron defending the flop is the joke of the year.

And to think Eduardo could only manage 4 league goals in 17 appearances in his debut season as an out n out striker even makes Berbatov look like a world class player.

Is Eduardo lazy too?
This was a player bought to replace Henry and many idiotic GAYnners felt his injury cos them the league title in 2007/8.

Tevez is the most expensive striker in the EPL. . . .Citeh paid £47 million for him
By the spastic comments i keep reading here. . . . .Tevez shoulda scored 15 league goals. . . . .Is Tevez lazy too?

Eastbay:
It's amazing that the smart one (Berba) isn't the one driving united's title push.
The daft one (rooney) is gathering all the rave reviews and rightfully so,and is the focal point of the title pus,despite your analysis of him being daft enough to hit the post against Villa.

Berbatov is simply doing what Fergie and Mike Phelan want him to do.
Spray intelligent passes to his team-mates and nick goals here n there if the opportunity avails itself.
His influence in the team last night was top draw as he started most of the attacks from deep. . . . .

As if Berba would muster enough power to hit the same crossbar.
This same Berba had a chance to score a hat-trick against City and decided it would be better to make a star out of Shay given.
But I guess he was smart enough to keep the score low at that point so Owen would score in injury time.

Football is not by POWER. . . .Instead of you to applaud Shay Given's brilliance, you are here slating Berbatov. Is Given a slouch like Almunia?
Kanu is the most intelligent Nigerian striker till date. . . . . He didn't achieve that by POWER.
Is Kanu lazy? 

debosky:
Berba is goat turd - that is the worst penalty in living memory.

I have seen worse ones. . . . . .Ribery's penalty here is a disgrace!!!
http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/2017466/ and this is the best player in Bundesliga by a mile.
Compare that to Berba's penalty and get back to me.

You are a consummate slowpoke to conclude because Berba has one goal over Valencia that he is a better player and improving, disregarding that their team functions are different. Clutching at straws to defend a useless player.

Debosky, you are a lummox.
In most of United's attacks, Berbatov is even further behind Valencia and Rooney.
Berbatov holds the ball up and wait for his wingers and strikers to run ahead of him so he can feed em the pass.
For example, Carrick's goal last night. . . . . .

How many assists has he produced?  

Like Eastbay and the idiotic GAYnners keep muttering, Berbatov wasn't bought to provide assists.
Fact remains Berba-Rooney combo is the most productive in the EPL as we speak.

That is a wrong analysis - if there ever is a worse penalty than the one Berba took, pigs will fly over Everest.

Check Ribery's miss above and you will eat your vomitus you scumbag.

eldee:
Points/Games: Only stiker less than 11mil in Top 5.
Value/Form: Second only to Jerome.
Bonus: Third, next to Rooney and Drogba.

Dude, get lessons from Borat or sumn. Schooling mid-table teams is not included in my job description.

I will get back to you when you are completely out of the top 20 teams.

Hehehe . . . so because you did well for four weeks you think you're Galacticos??
Don't do a Borat homie, it will always land you in 27th struggling with Chamotex

Eldee, you should be lingering below Bammy FC.
Your football nous is worse than Chamotex, sef!!!