₦airaland Forum

sportsmaster:
Barnabaseloka,scholar8200.
I understand where you guys are coming from,Christians should see themselves as God sees them.i understand that perfectly.

But what guarantees our Inheritances,Salvation,redemption,sanctification,righteousness,Justification is nothing Other than the Finished work of Christ.

Coming from your(barnabaseloka,Scholar8200) side of view,the only that can stop a Christian from entering heaven is Sin and Sin alone right?
But God says in his word that
"Your Sins and iniquities,I will remember No more."
"you have forgiveness of Sins in Christ".

Finally,
God placed all Our sins on Christ and forgave Us ahead of time.[/b]i.e God forgave us PAST,PRESENT,FUTURE. Accept or Not.
[b]Asking for forgiveness of Sins today is not what makes you forgiven.
It is the work of Christ which he did on the cross many years ago that still covers your Sins till today.


I am not encouraging Sinful habits,but it is good to know these bible facts

He that spared not his own Son,how shall he not freely give us all.
john1:29:- this is the lamb of God that takes away all the Sin of the World

I still wonder where any of my posts suggest that we are saved by works!!! But true saving faith reveals itself by works (faith worketh by love and love is the fulfilling of the law) As regards the highlighted, why is the whole world not automatically saved? Because some appropriated God's provision through inner faith and outward confession(keeping with Romans 10:9,10) while some did not either through ignorance or rebellion.

sportsmaster:
Did you try to find out what being in the flesh and being in the Spirit means.?

Galatians 5 explains it. Remember both Romans and Galatians were written to believers.

sportsmaster:
i urge you to search the original manuscript of Romans 8:1
all that it says is.
"there is now no condemnation unto them that are in Christ Jesus"

Thank God verses 4 &13 did not contradict what that 'original' does not have:
Romans 8:4,13

4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
13 For[b] if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live[/b].

Bear in mind that these ^ was written to believers in Christ!

and Galatians 5:21b

An2elect2:
What does it mean to work out our
salvation with fear and trembling? Paul can hardly be
encouraging believers to live in a continuous
condition of nervousness and anxiety. That would
contradict his many other exhortations to peace of
mind, courage, and confidence in the God who
authors our salvation. The Greek word translated
"fear" in this context can equally mean "reverence"
or "respect." Paul uses the same phrase in ( 2
Corinthians 7:15 ) where he refers to Titus as being
encouraged by the Corinthians’ reception of him
“with fear and trembling,” that is, with great humility
and respect for his position as a minister of the
gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul himself came to the
Corinthian church in “weakness and fear, and with
much trembling” ( 1 Corinthians 2:3 ), mindful of the
great and awesome nature of the work in which he
was engaged.

The sense in which we are to work out our salvation
in fear and trembling is twofold. First, the Greek verb
rendered “work out” means "to continually work to
bring something to completion or fruition." We do this
by actively pursuing obedience in the process of
sanctification, which Paul explains further in the next
chapter of Philippians. He describes himself as
“straining” and “pressing on” toward the goal of
Christlikeness ( Philippians 3:13-14 ).

The “trembling” he experiences is the attitude Christians are to have in pursuing this goal—a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and an awe and respect for His majesty and holiness. "Trembling" can also refer to a shaking due to weakness, but this is a weakness of higher purpose, one which brings us to a state of dependency on God. Obedience and submission to the God we revere and respect is our “reasonable service” (Romans 12:1-2 ) and brings great joy. Psalm 2:11 sums it up perfectly: “Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling.” We work out our salvation by going to the very source of our salvation—the Word of God—wherein we renew
our hearts and minds (Romans 12:1-2 ), coming into
His presence with a spirit of reverence and awe.



You are trying to explain away eternal security with passages that say nothing about it.

What does the bible say about OSAS:
The Bible
teaches that those who are born again will continue
trusting in Christ forever. God, by His own power
through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit,
keeps or preserves the believer forever. This
wonderful truth is seen in Ephesians 1:13-14 , where
we see that believers are “sealed with the Holy
Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our
inheritance until the redemption of the purchase
possession, to the praise of His glory.” When we are
born again, we receive the promised indwelling
presence of the Holy Spirit that is God’s guarantee
that He who began a good work in us will complete it
( Philippians 1:6 ). In order for us to lose our salvation
after receiving the promised Holy Spirit, God would
have to break His promise or renege on His
“guarantee,” which He cannot do. Therefore, the
believer is eternally secure because God is eternally
faithful.

The understanding of this doctrine really comes from
understanding the unique and special love that God
has for His children. Romans 8:28-39 tells us that 1)
no one can bring a charge against God’s elect; 2)
nothing can separate the elect from the love of
Christ; 3) God makes everything work together for
the good of the elect; and 4) all whom God saves will
be glorified. God loves His children (the elect) so
much that nothing can separate them from Him. Of
course this same truth is seen in many other
passages of Scripture as well. In John 10:27-30 ,
Jesus says, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know
them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to
them, and they will never perish; and no one will
snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has
given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is
able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and
the Father are one." Again, in John 6:37-47 , we see
Jesus stating that everyone that the Father gives to
the Son will come to Him and He will raise all of
them up at the last day.

Another evidence from Scripture of the eternal
security of a believer is found in John 5:24 , where
Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears
My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has
eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but
has passed out of death into life.” Notice that eternal
life is not something we get in the future but is
something that we have once we believe. By its very
nature, eternal life must last forever, or it could not
be eternal. This passage says that, if we believe the
gospel, we have eternal life and will not come into
judgment; therefore, it can be said we are eternally
secure.

There is really very little scriptural basis that can be
used to argue against the eternal security of the
believer. While there are a few verses that, if not
considered in their context, might give the
impression that one could “fall from grace” or lose
his salvation, when these verses are carefully
considered in context it is clear that is not the case.
Many people know someone who at one time
expressed faith in Christ and who might have
appeared to be a genuine Christian who later
departed from the faith and now wants to have
nothing to do with Christ or His church. These people
might even deny the very existence of God. For
those who do not want to accept what the Bible says
about the security of the believer, these types of
people are proof that the doctrine of eternal security
cannot be right. However, the Bible indicates
otherwise, and it teaches that people such as those
who profess Christ as Savior at one time only to later
walk away and deny Christ were never truly saved
in the first place. For example, 1 John 2:19 says,
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for
if they had been of us, they would have remained
with us; but they went out from us, in order that it
might be made manifest that they all are not truly of
us." The Bible is also clear that not everyone who
professes to be a Christian truly is. Jesus Himself
says that not everyone who says, “Lord, Lord,” will
enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21-22 ).
Rather than proving we can lose our salvation, those
people who profess Christ and fall away simply
reinforces the importance of testing our salvation to
make sure we are in the faith ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 )
and making our calling and election sure by
continually examining our lives to make sure we are
growing in godliness ( 2 Peter 1:10 ).
One of the misconceptions about the doctrine of the
perseverance of the saints is that it will lead to
“carnal Christians” who believe that since they are
eternally secure they can live whatever licentious
lifestyle they wish and still be saved. But that is a
misunderstanding of the doctrine and what the Bible
teaches. A person who believes he can live any way
he wants because he has professed Christ is not
demonstrating true saving faith (1 John 2:3-4 ). Our
eternal security rests on the biblical teaching that
those whom God justifies, He will also glorify
( Romans 8:29-30 ). Those who are saved will indeed
be conformed to the image of Christ through the
process of sanctification (1 Corinthians 6:11 ). When
a person is saved, the Holy Spirit breaks the
bondage of sin and gives the believer a new heart
and a desire to seek holiness. Therefore a true
Christian will desire to be obedient to God and will be
convicted by the Holy Spirit when he sins. True
Christians will never “live any way they want”
because such behavior is impossible for someone
who has been given a new nature ( 2 Corinthians
5:17 ).

Clearly, the doctrine of the perseverance of the
saints does accurately represent what the Bible
teaches on this important subject. If someone is
truly saved, he has been made alive by the Holy
Spirit and has a new heart with new desires. There
is no way that one that has been “born again” can
later be “unborn.” Because of His unique love for His
children, God will keep all of His children safe from
harm, and Jesus has promised that He would lose
none of His sheep. The doctrine of the perseverance
of the saints recognizes that true Christians will
always persevere and are eternally secure because
God keeps them that way. It is based on the fact that
Jesus, the “author and perfecter of faith” ( Hebrews
12:2 ), is able to completely save those whom the
Father has given Him (Hebrews 7:25 ) and to keep
them saved through all eternity.

I have read through and if I get you very well, I would summarise your point as Vs 13 below:
Matthew 24:12,13
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

and
Revelations 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

If I am right, then no problem.

Regarding those who believed and later backslid, we cannot scripturally write them off as those that never truly believed; there are some that actually believed but turned back. My premise for this is:

2 Peter 2:20,21
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

and Hebrews 10:29
29 of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Both passages show that the people concerned actually got saved and were sanctified by the blood of Jesus and experienced the ministry of the Holy Spirit of grace.

In case you feel they are interpreted out of context, kindly give your own explanation against the backdrop of the context where they are taken from.

dabosuker:
but even if Judas did not go ahead with it, Jesus would still have died..right??...so why then do people look upon him like he killed Jesus?...& i do not agree with you that Peter's case was worse than Judas's

That's the mistake, even the Acts of the Apostle never said Judas killed Jesus; from his actions, you can deduct that he did not hate Jesus per se; he was pushed by his covetousness to betray the Lord perhaps thinking the worst that will be done was to incarcerate Him like they did to John the baptist.

It's good to have a balanced view of history. God judged Sodom and Gomorrah by the hand of two angels sent; God also judged those nations by the hand of Joshua (when the cup of iniquity was full and warnings had been scorned) for this reason:
Deuteronomy 18:13
For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

But when Israel fell to the same abomination and scorned God's warning, this is what happened:

2 Chronicles 36:16-20
but they (Israelites) mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy.
17 Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand.
18 And all the vessels of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the Lord, and the treasures of the king, and of his princes; all these he brought to Babylon.
19 And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.
20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:

God judged Israel too by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon!

Neither Joshua nor Babylon were in the process of spreading a religion; God the Righteous Judge chose to execute His judgement when the time was ripe and warnings had being ignored. He could have sent Angels or the elements but the final decision rests with Him.

An2elect2:
I understand very well what you are saying, but do you not think all these warnings are means by which God preserves us? Are we not being kept by His words which have power? Who wakes the slumbering Christian up? Is not God the one? and who causes us to do right? to watch? to pray? Is not God the one?

You are correct! God works in us to will and to do (Philippians 2:13,12) but remember we are commanded to work out the salvation that God, through our faith, works within us and that with fear and trembling (this language wont be used if there were no dangers). Besides consider:

2 Peter 1:5-11
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

Note that Peter was already writing to believers that had obtained like precious faith 2 Peter 1:1, hence he was not saying to do these things to be saved but that our faith through which we obtain grace has a work(s) by which it manifests itself viz giving all diligence to avail ourselves of all means of grace by which we may become more like Him else the colored highlighted is a possibility (relapse to spiritual blindness: the very condition of the unsaved)

Thoniameek:
Thank you sir
You don't know how grateful I am

Glory to God and Father of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

Kei144:

You are right in saying that the woman is Israel. More specifically, the woman is made up of the 144,000 Israelite evangelists whose two-year end-time ministry will lead to the perfection of the saints. It is the perfected saints, plus dead saints that have already been made perfect in Paradise (Heb. 12:23), that will make the rapture.
Ro. 11:16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Ro. 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
Ro. 11:18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Only the olive root (Jews) can supply the nourishing sap to the Church. Gentiles have laboured so much in evangelising the world, but full redemption can never be achieved by gentiles' evangelism. Salvation is of the Jews. It is only when Jews are made perfect that the world could become perfect. But all Israelites cannot become perfect; so, God is starting with the firstfruits, the 144,000. The 144,000 Israelites form the woman that will give rise to the set of perfect saints that will be adopted as sons of God.

This is not correct! Why not back your assertions with Scripture? The woman cannot be the 144,000 Israelites neither is the Child the Church! I explained this in my last post and I gave scriptural backings! Is the Church ever referred to as a man Child? Has it not always been referred to as the Bride of the Lamb and the Body of Christ? So the woman stays in the wilderness 3.5 years while the child had been caught up to Heaven and you now give an insinuation that the woman and the child will be together so that the child can be ...perfected!! Is that correct?

Rapture will not happen before tribulation begins. The tribulation is actually birth pains (Mt. 24:8 ). A child is not born before birth pains begin. It is the birth pains that lead to birthing of a child. The birth pains will begin in September 2015; the child will be born and be snatched up to heaven in November 2017.

See https://www.nairaland.com/2209665/jane-leade-prophecy-1679.

Dont follow any prophet sans diligent, balanced of scripture study!
1. No man knows the date of the Rapture, Jesus said so.[size=13pt](Need we strive on something so expressedly stated Mark 13:32!.)[/size]
2. The rapture signals the end of the mystery period between the 69th and 70th week in Daniel's prophecy. Now, if the rapture does not happen before the tribulation, would this not leave a trail of confusion?
3. 2 Thess. 2:7 talks of the fact that the anti-christ not being fully unveiled till the One that hinders his full manifestation, the Holy Spirit, is taken out of the way! His coming in Acts 2 gave birth to the Church, His being taken out of the Way, signals the end of the Church age.

dabosuker:
I have sat down and thought for a while, why so much hate for "Judas"?? ....what?....because he betrayed Jesus? sold him??...but was it not a Prophecy?..was he not fulfilling a Prophecy??...doesn't that mean he was remote controlled??....did he not set the ball rolling for Christianity??...that guy should be given a medal & made a Saint by Christians, instead of all the hate ...i just don't get it!...I see no body hating "Peter" ...why is that??

No sire! The actions of Peter and indeed all the Apostles at the time of arrest shows they were all potential betrayers and all had equal opportunity to repent! Peter even denied Jesus with oaths and curses; a notch higher than Judas.
In fact his plans to betray (not kill) Jesus was openly declared yet he did not repent. From his action when he saw that Jesus would be killed, you can tell that all he had in mind was to make quick profit (he had been indulging his covetousness all along) and back out while Jesus, like John will be sent to dungeon; but when he discovered that his benefactors had more sinister motives, he could not bear it.

All the same, Peter repented but Judas killed himself! His was a case of one with attitude defect. After His Resurrection, Jesus went after Peter and the rest who went back to fishing; Judas had killed himself already. Whose fault?

ProphetUdeme:
pls kindly drop the download link or where i can read it via net. Thanks bro

For the book by Samuel Logan Brengle see: http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/brengle/5f00.0056/5f00.0056.c.htm

For the one by F. J. Huegel see: http://kingdomprecepts.org/ebooks.php

I must give credit to the Herald of His Coming Ministries, America, who sent me both free of charge at a time I was seeking the blessing of heart holiness! The one by Samuel Brengle arrested my attention; I think I read it through in one night till between 3:30-4.00am

charisville:
Hello Jag,

Just pray that those who argue with you about this gospel of grace will have a full revelation of the true gospel. No matter how much you argue with them, they won't get it. I pray that the eyes of their understanding be engulfed by The Light of His word.
I encourage them to subscribe to Charis Ville Devotional www.charisvilledevotional.com

God bless.

There is nothing in my previous post that suggests that I believe salvation is by works, of course, it's by grace. However, note that the following will be unnecessary if salvation cannot be lost

1. Then note and appreciate the gracious kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s gracious kindness to you—provided you continue in His grace and abide in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off (pruned away). Roman 11:22

2. If a person does not dwell in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken-off] branch, and withers; such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, and they are burned [/b]John 15:6. Remember 1 John 2:6? If we abide in Him it will reflect in holiness of life and not just empty affirmations!

3. 36 [Watch, I say] lest He come suddenly and unexpectedly and find you asleep.
37 [b]And what I say to you I say to everybody: Watch (give strict attention, be cautious, active, and alert)! Mark 13:36,37

You dont raise an alarm if there is no danger nor the possibility thereof! The highlighted is to pre-empt anyone who might say it was only for the Jews; it was said to all disciples.

4. 5 Examine and test and evaluate your own selves to see whether you are holding to your faith and showing the proper fruits of it. Test and prove yourselves [[a]not Christ]. Do you not yourselves realize and know [thoroughly by an ever-increasing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you—unless you are [counterfeits] disapproved on trial and rejected?
2 Corinthians 13:5

5. 48 But if that servant is wicked and says to himself, My master is delayed and is going to be gone a long time,
49 And begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunken,
50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he is not aware,
51 And will punish him [[y]cut him up by scourging] and put him with the pretenders (hypocrites); there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.
Matthew 24:48-51
If a servant in the vineyard relapses because the Lord delays His coming,verse 51 does not sound like something that happens in Heaven!

We do not watch, resist temptation etc to be saved; we do so because we are saved! We do so because we realise that :

...the [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach, 1 Timothy 4:1


P.S.: you may call me a false prophet or blind person or whatever name. That wont change the fact that these things are written in the Bible and we do our souls an eternal good to balance our perspective!

Kei144:
You don't have sufficient exposure to understand Re. 12:1,2,5. You don't know about signs in the sky. Jews know so much about signs in the sky. The birth of Jesus Christ was announced by a sign in the sky.

The birth of Jesus Christ was heralded by Angels. The star was the method of the people of the east and they were not Jews.

Re. 12:1-5 is about a sign in the sky that announces the adoption of the sons of God.

And how would you relate this to verse 6?

Re. 12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

Based on your interpretation, who does this woman symbolise?

Ro. 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Ro. 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:51-58 shows how this will happen!

Can you see "childbirth" of Re. 12:5 mentioned in Ro. 8:22 that talks about the adoption of sons of God?

That the groaning was likened (using a simile) to childbirth does not mean it is such. If it be so, who is the woman, and who is the child symbolising?

Just as the birthing of Jesus the Son of God was accompanied by a great sign in the heavenlies, the birthing of the sons of God comes with a more marvelous sign, because the reason why God birthed Jesus in the world wa for the redemption of mankind. The redemption of manking is completed in Re. 12:5.

Understand that the events of Revelations 12 relate to the post-rapture period hence it has nothing to do with the Gentile believers.The 1260 days/42 months mentioned in verse 6 is clearly related to the period of the Tribulation after the Rapture, the time of which is unknown!

Revelations 12:5
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The highlighted shows that Jesus is the Child in question:
Revelations 19:15b,16
that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS


The woman symbolises Israel. How do I know this?
Revelations 12:13-14
The continued reference to 3.5 years/1260 days/42 months which all relate to the last half of the 7 years tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9:27 concerns the Israelites.

This identification of the “woman” as Israel is confirmed by other things. For example: the use of the sun, moon and stars to symbolize the sons of Jacob (Gen. 37:9); the use of the number twelve which corresponds to Israel’s twelve tribes; God’s protection of Israel in the “wilderness” (Rev. 12:6, 14) paralleling her Old Testament experience; and the repeated use of the word “woman” in the Old Testament to refer to Israel (Isa. 54:5-6; Jer. 4:31; Mic. 4:9-10, etc.). Though the church is to be the bride of Christ, she is never specifically called a “woman.” Added to that, it is not the church which produced Christ (as in Rev. 12:5), but Christ who produced the church!
http://www.wordwise-bible-studies.com/israel-in-the-tribulation.html

Kei144:

What do you think about the sign of Re. 12:1-2,5?

Kei144:

What do you think about the sign of Re. 12:1-2,5?

Revelations 12:1-5 gives a summary in pictures of Israel's history (symbolised by the woman as Ezekiel 16:8-14) up till the time of the second half of the tribulation;vs 3,4 introduces us to the accuser and his first activity in rebellion; and verse 6 shows us the escape prepared for the elect(Israel symbolised by the woman) during the second 3.5 years (also 1260 days or 42 months as shown in Rev. 13:5) of the last week in Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy ( Daniel 9:27)

nicolas247:
Jesus said not only when you sleep with another person wife or husband is a sin but when you look at another woman lustfully (which means if you have the opportunity to do it, you will do it) then it is sin. so masturbation is a sin Matthew 5:27-28 NIV

Indeed! Masturbation goes hand in hand with sexual fantasy which is as bad/sinful as the very act!

truthman2012:
I love the quote below:

''Jesus did not come to establish a religion''.

Therefore ALL who seek to get to God through religion are deceiving themselves.

Indeed, Jesus said,"I am the Way..., NO man comes to the Father but by Me"

When, through faith in Christ, we are reconciled to the Father, we receive grace to walk in the Light as He is in the Light!

Stay blessed!!

oluFELAxy:
What is holiness?
How can someoe live a holy life?

http://www.omisakinolufela./2015/07/30/1peter-116/

Bear with me, I'll refer you to two excellent treatise on the subject that were of tremendous help to me; they can be downloaded freely:
1 Helps to Holiness by Logan Brengle; and
2 Forever Triumphant by F. J Huegel

Since we are in the Church/Gentile age, we cannot predict things from dates. The Church/ Gentile age is the mystery period between the 69th and 70th week in Daniel's prophecy. After the rapture (signalling the end of the Church/Gentile age), the events below will take place. Besides, the date of the rapture is neither known nor can be deciphered; even the angels in Heaven dont know!!!

Daniel 9:26b,27a
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27[b] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,[/b]

Maybe that date holds an importance for Israel as a nation (just as 1948 can be accurately linked to the 70 weeks prophecy) perhaps a preparation of the ground for another phase, it has nothing to do with Gentiles!

Idrismusty97:
Common sense will tell you not to steal or murder. And if you go out of the norms to commit these acts the long arms of the law will always catch up with you. Besides you wouldn't want to raise up your kids as a thief or murderer would you? We don't need a god or religion for morality, the world is changing. We are entering into a new era...Most irreligious countries are usually the most peaceful. E.g Denmark, Japan, Iceland etc

This common sense simply means every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no one dares enforces his 'right' on others! If it be so, then the only hope of man is the arm of the law (the length or shortness of it is also depending on the common sense of those in power!They also can restrain and release the arm subject to their common sense. The executive arm eg Police also comprise men whose common sense may also influence their actions. .). I say this because common sense is too subjective! In fact, take away the arm of the law and there will be anarchy.

A thread like this one will appear in the wills of current members; possibly bequeathed to their most internet savvy kids to continue where they left off.

Bakrabas:
according to john jesus was his only begotten son.the words of jesus are in matt,mark,luke,john...not jesus that wrote the galatians book all these are reports or d word like "he said"

So, did John 1:12 say we were all going to become only begottens too? Did he not say that to those who believed, they were given the right or privilege (just like you give an adopted child) to become the sons of God.

Bakrabas:
if we are all sons of God why someone is his only begotten son.john 3:16 new testame

Only those who believe on His Name (not mental assent) receive the power to become the sons of God.
I did not say we are all! Even John 1:11,12 shows that that right is only for those that received Him for Who He is!

5 to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:5,6

Bakrabas:
brother your own christianity stand-out.in john 1:16 you made mention of...become sons of God.Don't you think that this chapter negates john 3:16...that he gave us his only begotten son. now that there's no christianity evidence in the bible,then what's your religion

John 1:12. It does not negate John 3:16, rather it explains it. Nowhere were believers in Christ called Only Begotten Sons! We receive the right or the privilege to become the sons of God through faith in Jesus-The Only Begotten:

5 to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:5,6

Was man (Adam) made to practise religion? I trow not! When you read the Gospels and Epistles, what you find is a Union , a depth of intimacy between the Father and the Son and that was what Jesus came to restore- Life in God through Union with the Father by faith in the Son:
John 17:23
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

This is why we call it Reconciliation through Christ or Redemption:

McSterling:
You should have at least given the author the benefit of the doubt. Seems you just wrote him off cos he's a sceptic. I'm a sceptic too, you know, and we've kept this back and forth on since. Why not approach the author this same way too.

I did not write him off! When I commenced with his article I discovered these things which indeed confirmed that he properly named his website; however, may be he should have been more objective! It seems he already made his conclusion before embarking on a research in the Gospels to ,even if remotely, rubber stamp it.

McSterling:
OK. The first link is an excerpt from the classic, "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. This "principle" of yours seems to me like the quintessential eisegesis. You do not have the liberty to read your own meaning into the text. If a prophecy or any pronouncement was made in a text, the only way we can correctly understand it is within the context of the text. If a fulfilment is seen to have occurred in the text, we do not have liberty to extrapolate and say the prophecy has an "ultimate" fulfilment in the future. That would be reading our own meaning into the text and thus meaning what the author never meant.

I neither extrapolated nor read my meaning, the example of Abraham's Seed is there for all to see. Antiochus Epiphanes (215-164 BC) mentioned fulfilled the descriptions of the prophesies of Daniel; however, Jesus and His Apostles still spake of one who was to fulfil those prophecies:Antichrist=son of perdition=man of sin etc. In fact, Daniel's prophecy in Daniel 9:26b speaks of the prince that was to come after the first advent of Christ!
My point is that the principle is clearly illustrated in scripture, it's not a personal invention.

Let me add one more, Jeremiah prophesied that after 70 years , Israel's captivity in Babylon would be brought to an end. After 70 years Daniel saw this promise and began to intercede, his prayer was answered but he was also given a deep insight into the ultimate fulfilment of that prophecy viz the 70 week period in Daniel 9:23-27!

Bakrabas:
if Jesus did not aware of xtanity then christianity is not a religion because Jesus did nt preach xtianity bt 2 bring us bk 2 God.Evrytin ws invented afta Jesus plus bible

The highlighted is correct; Rather, true believers accept and follow the faith of Christ! Reconciliation to God by faith in Christ!

John 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

This is also the focus of the Gospels and the Epistles!

Bakrabas:
let there be no compulsion in religion.librate urself 4rm d fabricated religion established by apostle paul afta d demise of jesus.jesus throughout his life never utter d word christianity.if u r bold enough lets kip d dynamite sparkin.ans d quest bro

Kindly show me where Paul also uttered 'd word christianity'!

Bakrabas:
To whom it may concern,i will like the so call religius people to defend their religions base on their books as it was stated.some religions were fabricated and imposed on the society.the words of jesus can be found in the book of matthew,mark,luke and john any others are fallacies or "he said" or report.1.where in the bible did jesus/God mention christainity.2.where in the bible did jesus say "every sunday go to church".3.what are the christian mode of warship.4.how many time did the word "bible" appear in the bible.5.what is the religion of jesus.6.where in the bible did jesus celebrat xmas.7.what chapter is december 25th.8.which version of the bible did jesus use.9.if truly the xtian are following jesus and his deed they shouldnt marry.10.the bible say whosever die on the cross is an accurse one,what about jesus.warning:plz use only mat,mark,luk,john to ans the quests because dos are d fairly buks dat cntain som jesus words

Religion of Jesus?! Very funny. Jesus taught about marriage in Matthew 19! And why did He not force Peter and the rest to chase away their wives? (He even healed Peter's sick mother-in-law!.)

Kindly note that Jesus did not come to establish a religion! He came to reconcile us back to God!
John 1:12,13

12 But to all who have received him—those who believe in his name—he has given the right to become God’s children 13 —children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

As regards the Bible, It consists of the Torah, Psalms and the Prophets (all were quoted by Christ), and the Gospels & Epistles. Christ already endorsed the Epistles when He said to His Apostles:

John 15:27
and you also will testify, because you have been with me from the beginning.

The Word Bible means Book; a book that comprises the Scriptures that Christ repeatedly referred His disciples and the Pharisees to!

Sunday,the first day of the week was adopted by the early disciples simply because that was the day of Christ's Resurrection, however, they met on other days too, just like it's done today.

^^^Kindly note that Jesus did not come to establish a religion! He came to reconcile us back to God!
John 1:12,13

12 But to all who have received him—those who believe in his name—he has given the right to become God’s children 13 —children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

As regards the Bible, It consists of the Torah, Psalms and the Prophets (all were quoted by Christ), and the Gospels & Epistles. JESUS Christ already endorsed the Epistles when He said to His Apostles:

John 15:27
and you also will testify, because you have been with me from the beginning.

The Word Bible means Book; a book that comprises the Scriptures that Christ repeatedly refer His disciples and the Pharisees to!

Sunday,the first day of the week was adopted by the early disciples simply because that was the day of Christ's Resurrection, however, they met on other days too, just like it's done today.

horlarwhalhe:
Am confuse about these his angel a God or God is angel?
Exodus 24.9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
John 5.37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
1.18[b] No man hath seen God at any time,[/b] the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

As per the highlighted, God said same thing to Moses:

Exodus 34:11, 17,18,20
11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, the way a person speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his servant, Joshua son of Nun, a young man, did not leave the tent.


17 The Lord said to Moses, “I will do this thing also that you have requested, for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name.”

18 And Moses said, “Show me your glory.”
” 20 But he added, “You cannot see my face, for no one can see me and live.”

Now verse 20 agrees with John 1:18.

Even the average Israelites knew this: Judges 6:22

The ANSWER is found in Numbers 12:8 (Note that Moses wrote all this meaning he understood all that was happening)
With him I speak mouth to mouth [directly], clearly and not in dark speeches; and[b]he beholds the form of the Lord[/b]. Why then were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses?

The highlighted is rendered as 'Similitude of the Lord' in the Authorised version.

Similitude:
a : counterpart, double
b : a visible likeness : image
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/similitude.

McSterling:
Well, many pseudonymous writings were probably not for a deceptive/ subversive purpose. That's why they're referred to as pious fraud. The purpose of these embellishments and additions can be contended, but the fact that there are indeed such embellishments can not be denied. Maybe their authors had good intentions but the fact is that they ended up deceiving many people.

I speak for the Four Gospels; as per the highlighted, deceiving them as regards what? What then is the Truth? How do you objectively establish this?

Both then and now, those who repent and truly believe on Jesus Christ (as the Gospels present Him) testify to a transformation of life; even those around them noticed this change (infact there were times when sheriffs testified to crime infested areas being turned around after a Gospel outreach! Do we then say that the devil now deals in righteousness, restitution, holiness of life?

Did you read the link? You can take your time on it. Here's a less lengthy one too:
www.skeptically.org/newtestament/id21.html

The name of the website already gives me the mindset of the author. (I read some parts and scanned through the rest when it became obvious to me that the author was indeed a biased skeptic)
Right from Genesis when God spoke to Abraham of his Seed, any objective judge will see that God's declarations concerning His, usually have a proximate and ultimate fulfilment! Isaac was Abraham's Seed but ultimately he is not the One through Whom all the nations of the Earth was to be blessed or that will possess the gates of His enemies!(Isaac did not even fight any battle!!!) as stated in Genesis 22:17,18.

This principle alone refutes many of the authors points. Another example is the prophecy of Daniel that had its proximate fulfilment in the man, Antiochus Epiphanes but that was not the end; the ultimate fulfilment will be in the anti-christ!
Isaiah53:6,7 perfectly agrees with Daniel 9:26 then I wonder how Isaiah 53 was about the people of Israel?!

In a normal skeptic way, he falsely accuses Mark of mentioning Isaiah when what Mark said was that,"as it is written in the prophet[size=14pt]s[/size]" meaning Mark had more than Isaiah's prophecy in mind!!! Mark 1:2

I wish I could have those claims one after the other however it will be a waste of time because the above described principle was not recognised!

McSterling:
Apologies if I irked you with my choice of words: "insincere" and "ignorant". I just didn't expect you to ask me such questions. I don't think I can outline these so called "prophecies" more brilliantly than Thomas Paine did in this link: www.deism.com/paine_essay_false_prophecies_of_jesus_1.htm
These seemingly quibbling issues are to be explicated punctiliously if the gospels were to be regarded as infallible. The gospels aren't simply wholly fallible human personal accounts of the life of Jesus by non-eye-witnesses decades after Jesus' death now or are they?

Not a very bad attempt. But as much as I appreciate this attempt, I can't help but notice its flaws. Some of the points you make invalidate some claims in another gospel, e.g. two angels invalidates one angel; Matthew quoted in your first point invalidates Mark and the two angels, etc. Your designation of 1st appearance of Jesus et al., is quite interesting too. For example, the supposed third appearance to Peter which is no where mentioned in the gospels, but only by Paul who himself wasn't an eyewitness. Some of these separate appearances you outlined actually are not distinct at all if one would take a closer look. In all this attempt seems like a frantic effort to sew together different contradictory pieces of information into one fabric. Certainly not approved of by critical scholars. A clever attempt though. It most likely will sate a christian. Would have loved to look at each reference for comparison just to make sure but I don't have the time now. What I however noticed almost immediately however is the quoting of verse 9 downwards of Mark 16. You sure know those verses are not part of the original gospel of Mark, but are later additions, right? Mark actually stops in verse 8.

I am on it but perhaps we should consider the following:

Mark 16:6,7
But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has been raised! He is not here. Look, there is the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples, even Peter, that he is going ahead of you into Galilee. You will see him there, just as he told you.”

The above spoken by the angel perfectly agrees with what Jesus Himself had spoken of in Mark 10:33,34
Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and experts in the law. They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles. 34 They will mock him, spit on him, flog him severely, and kill him. Yet after three days, he will rise again.”


And since all these are consistent with the other Gospels, Epistles and Prophecies, it means that part was neither an embellishment or addition for a deceptive/subversive purpose!