₦airaland Forum

RagnarLodbrok:
No! Imran is the father of Mary mother of Jesus (pbuh). Not Mary sister of Moses.

Now there is a bit of a challenge; My studies reveal that Imran is the Arab for Amram, father of Aaron, Miriam and Moses. How true is this? And if it be so, what is the arabic name of Aaron's dad?

malvisguy212:
bro, don't wast your time on him, he knows the truth but don't want to admits it . I love your explanation. God bless you for your gentilness.

Amen. God bless you too.

RagnarLodbrok:
Well imran in islam, is the father of Mary.

But he was not the immediate father of Aaron?

RagnarLodbrok:
The imran here is the equivalent of Joachim.

But Joachim is not in the Bible. It is not found in the hebrew genealogy of Aaron. The only Jehoiakim was a king that lived centuries after Aaron hence I believe that's not the one you are referring to. Can you give where exactly that name was mentioned?

Kindly state where I can find Joachim in the Bible.

RagnarLodbrok:
Yes.

Okay. Was Imran a grand father to Aaron or which generation was he? I want to trace that name using the genealogy I have. Also, where can the hebrew name you used, Joachim, be found?

RagnarLodbrok:
No, she is the daughter of a noble man imran and she comes from the line of a great noble man as well Aaron, again we can both agree Moses was a holier prophet, but the verse didn't say Moses, it said Aaron. Obviously due to the connection I listed below. Further proof is during the isra and miraj, all the prophets he met excluding Abraham called Muhammad brother. Were they biologically related? Smh



Read what I wrote above. And once again, is the use of a mother's bloodline to attach nobility to a person what's really surprising you?

Are you saying that the Imran in question was not Aaron's immediate father?

RagnarLodbrok:
Uhhhm! I've never known you to this confused. Was lot a biological brother of Abraham or not?

The issue here is the use of brother or sister in relating a living person with one who was dead over a milenium ago! Besides, the fact that the op quotes the Quran as saying Mary is a daughter of Amram makes it glaring that the writer did not have the issues you raised in mind! Abraham and Lot were alive then so I suggest that we drop the reference to them.

Soooo? When the bible was mentioning the bloodline of jesus did it not at one point give the bloodline of joseph even though he was his adoptive father? They had no connection at all. So someone's matrimonial side used to refer to her nobility is what surprises you? Loooooooolool! . Grow up!

This is not related to the point being clarified; if the tribe of Mary was Levi, there will be a correlation.(After all Mary and Joseph are both from the tribe of Judah and both are also from the house of David). However, Elizabeth was of the tribe of Levi and her husband.
That the Quran uses strong ties of, "sister of Aaron" and "daughter of Amram" suggests that the Mary the writer had in mind was 100% of the tribe of Levi, not a secondary link.

bingbagbo:
are u running away?

ANSWER, DO YOU BELIEVE IN ISAIAH 9:6?

Running away while answering posts? The passages you RAN AWAY from are the ones I am calling you back to! We will make more progress if you will realise that scripture explains scripture and not holding to one that appears to justify your position while ignoring other passages that clarify your captive verse but contradicts your position.

bingbagbo:
ISAIAH 9:6 JESUS IS THE EVERLASTING FATHER YOU DOUBT THAT?

Before jumping to the prophets, let's iron out our differences on the ones quoted so far; what's the use multiplying verses and not arriving at a conclusion? By the way, if you will humble yourself,this quote should bring you better understanding when considered in the light of

John 5:26 and John 1:4,3 and John 17:6

bingbagbo:
on the contrary, HE SAID ANY ONE THAT SEES HIM SEES THE FATHER, THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE

ARE YOU ALSO THE WAY, TRUTH AND THE LIFE? SINCE YOU HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT?

On the contrary?! Are you going to correct Him:

John 14:10

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: [size=14pt]but the Father that dwelleth in me[/size], he doeth the works.

bingbagbo:
BUT HE said in John 14:8-10 that he is the FATHER

Rather He said in John 14:10 that The FATHER dwells in Him. (Just as the Spirit dwells in those who believe Romans 8:11. Now the fact that the Spirit dwells in us does not mean we are the Spirit; rather we reveal Him in Whose Name the Spirit came, to the extent of our surrender to Him)

bingbagbo:
CAN YOU SEE THIS ONE TOO?

2 Peter 1:1 ►

Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Oh Sure!!!
He went further to say:

2 Peter 1:17
For he received from [size=14pt]God the Father[/size] honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory,[size=14pt] This is my beloved Son,[/size] in whom I am well pleased.

bingbagbo:
YOU CANT SEE?

I can see, that God the Father exalted His Son, Jesus Christ.


Philippians 2:9-11: "Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that [size=14pt]Jesus Christ is Lord[/size], to the glory of [size=14pt]God the Father[/size]."

bingbagbo:
DO YOU OBSERVE ANY AMBIGUITY IN THE SCRIPTURES?

THE QUOTED ARE SAYING JESUS CHRIST IS GOD THE FATHER HIMSELF, SINCE GOD THE FATHER HAD EARLIER INDICATED ALL KNEES WILL BOW AT HIS NAME

Explain this:

Philippians 2:9-11: "Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

bingbagbo:
EXACTLY, SO WHAT ELSE ARE YOU IMPLYING??

JESUS CHRIST IS GOD ALMIGHTY AND AT THE MENTION OF HIS NAME, YOUR KNEES TOO WILL BOW!!!

Bow to Jesus?! Gladly!!!
As to what I am implying, those were not my quotes. You quoted them first therefore explain!

bingbagbo:
Isaiah 45:23-24: "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. [/b]They will say of [b]Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And" all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.


Philippians 2:9-11: "Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

James 2:19
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Philippians 2:9-11: "Therefore also [size=14pt]God highly exalted Him,[/size] and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Source?

RagnarLodbrok:
Why Quran calls Mary, a Sister of Aaron ?
The verse in question is;

"O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (Al-Qur’an 19:28)

It does not mean that here Qur’an calls Mary, the real sister of Aaron, the Prophet who was hundreds of years before her. Here she is only being called a female person of the family, from the Noble lineage of Prophet Aaron.

The Qur’anic usage:


In order to understand Qur’anic language one must look into other Qur’anic passages.

Qur’ans calls Prophet Shoaib as the brother of the people of Midian. Qur’an says;

“And unto Midian (We sent) their brother, Shu'eyb." (Al-Qur’an 7:85)

And similarly Qur’an calls Prophet Salih, the brother of the people of Thamud. It says;

"And unto Thamud (We sent) their brother Salih." (Al-Qur’an 11:61)

In both these examples it is never meant that the Prophets were the real brothers of the each and every person of that tribe. It’s only way to address them. It means that Shu'aib was a (male) person from the people of Midian and similarly Salih from the people of Thamud.

So in the very same manner when Qur’an describes Mary, the mother of Christ as 'Sister of Aaron', It means that she is being referred to as a (female) person from the people, the lineage of Prophet Aaron.
This is infact an Arabic idiom, a way to address. In Arabia a person from the tribe Banu Mudhar may be addressed as Ya Akha Mudhar, meaning 'O the brother of Mudhar'.

The Prophetic answer to this question:

Mughira b. Shu'ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Aaron", whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: “The (people of the old age) used to call names (of their persons) after the names of the Prophets and pious persons who had gone before them.” (Sahih Muslim, Book on General Behaviour, Hadith 3962)

The Holy Prophet (PBUH) meant to say that Mary’s relationship with Prophet Aaron was mentioned because she was of his lineage for among Semites it was common to associate a person with his lineage.

This fits the context as well. The people thought that Mary had done something unworthy of a chaste woman and thus as they rebuked her, they first made a reference to her noble ancestry and then testified that even her own father was no wicked person (verse 28).

Observations from the Bible:

1- One thing we need to consider is that Qur’an does not call Mary ‘Sister of Moses’ but ‘Sister of Aaron’.

2- Aaron (PBUH) we know was the first in line for the Israelite priesthood.

3- New Testament clearly tells us that Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist (PBUH) was from the lineage of Aaron (Luke 1:5). Also it tells that Mary was a cousin of Elizabeth (1:36). Therefore we can easily call them both ‘Sisters of Aaron’ i.e. from the lineage of Aaron.

4- Infact we have evidence of the similar usage from the Bible. In Genesis 13:8 Abraham and Lot are called brothers while certainly they did not come from loins of one individual. It reads;

“And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.”

A certain Christian commentator, Adam Clarke says in his commentary to this verse;


‘[It means] we are of the same family, worship the same God in the same way, have the same promises, and look for the same end.’

Was the same not true in case of Mary and Aaron? Were they both not from the same priestly family and of same faith?

So the conclusion is that this is only a beautiful way of expression in the Arabic language and to try to twist it some other way speaks only of ones inner wickedness and that’s all!

INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!

This is an attempt at clarifying the op; but I need to correct these:

1. Abraham and Lot were both alive; perhaps 30-50 years separated them; there is no where in the Bible that a man or woman will be called brother or sister of one that died more than a millenium ago! The best you can get is son or daughter of a particular patriarch meaning such is a descendant (eg Son of David).If Mary was a descendant of Aaron (which she is not) then the use of sister is a misnomer! Besides, that Mary was called daughter of Amram means the writer was not being metaphorical! There is no where in scripture that an Israelite was called daughter/son of the wife of the patriarch after whose name their tribe was called.

2. Mary was of the tribe of Judah whence was David, not Levi (Aaron)! You may wonder how she became Elizabeth's cousin? Well it was compulsory for the Levites to marry from their tribe but the same did not apply to their women hence Mary's connection to Elizabeth must have arose from the matrilineal side.
In fact the Bible clearly says Mary was of the house of David and even backed it up with a genealogy!

1.The dream of Joseph came long after the death of Rachael (and not before) hence the dream referred to his step mum,Leah.


2. The word ,'rested' is from the hebrew 'shabath' which means to cease, to leave etc It can be used causatively, figuratively etc
It by no means God became tired! He simply ceased or halted creation.
Isaiah 40:28
...The everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, does not faint or grow weary;



3 Moses did not sneak out of Egypt!!!

Exodus 12:30-33
30 Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
31[b] He called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, get out from among my people, both you and the Israelites; and go,[/b] serve the Lord, as you said.
32 Also take your flocks and your herds, as you have said, and be gone! And [ask your God to] bless me also.
33 The Egyptians were urgent with the people to depart, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We are all dead men.

For an event that happened over 3 milleniums ago, I wonder where the evidence will be sought for! In any case the nation that have this history are still alive; google can link you up with one or some of them for better information.




4. The prophets(which you say you believe) prophesied of this long ago:

Daniel 9:26
....And after threescore and two [z]weeks, shall Messiah be slain,...



Isaiah 52:14
As many were astonied at thee;
his visage was so marred more than any man,
and his form more than the sons of men:
15
(describe what he would be like on the cross)

Isaiah 53:6,12b
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
and he was numbered with the transgressors;
and he bare the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Psalm 22:16-18

16 For dogs have compassed me, and the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they [m]pierced mine hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones, yet they behold, and look upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.




Jesus also declared same:

Luke 18:31-33
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.


All these things were spoken by more than one prophet. Why? IN THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY WORD SHALL BE ESTABLISHED!

vooks:
We can estimate her age from this verse;

Luke 1:39 King James Version (KJV)
39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

Mary makes a trip of over 100KM from Nazareth to Judea to visit her cousin Elizabeth. That is not a trip a 9 year old can make. I say this because some Muslims reckon she was betrothed under ten years of age. The whole point being equivalence; Mohamed of Quran defiled minors, just as Joseph of the Bible. These guys are sick

In fact since Elizabeth, her cousin, was an old woman, she might have been in her late teens or early twenties!

The Gospel (Goodnews) was not 'given' to Jesus!!! The Gospel/Goodnews is all about Him!

johnydon22:
again what about the idea that god shut man out of the garden of eden so they won't eat the fruit of eternal life and live forever then promises man eternal life when you die. . . people don't really think about what they believe [/i][/b]

That's not true!

Suggested answer:

stillreal:
So was having a conversation with a born again friend, i raised some questions which she couldn't answer out of fear and believe. I do believe in God, but some things just don't add up

1. Do you believe in hell? personally i think its a fear factor thing . Think about it, why would a loving God create a place for you to burn eternally ? A sin is a sin they say, so basically murderers , rapists and sinners like liars,clubbing,having multiple sex partners etc will end up in the same place? .

Hell and the Lake of fire were meant for the devil and his angels. It is a place of utter separation from God (not even the most vile nihilist can appreciate what this feels like!.) However, when man choose to toe the path of the devil, he chose that consequence too!
Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

God is a Loving God but He is also A God of Justice!!!

2. All sins are the same? seriously , so a dictator can start a genocide killing millions , but become a born again christian today and make heaven if the rapture takes place the same day? while a guy who's got good heart, helps people, never hurts anybody ,but loves woman and clubs wont make it ?

The first point is that the essence of the Faith of Christ is reconciliation with God on His terms and the expression of this reconciliation is good works. A moralist lacks this reconciliation hence remains separated from God. We cannot effect this reconciliation by our good works. A dictator who repents and is reconciled with God is transformed and he no longer remains the same. Quite unfortunate that many died by his misuse of authority. Before God, one who hates his brother is no different from the dictator that murdered many and the abortionist and his client (s). They all head to the same destiny with he who they followed in rebellion.

3. You can only make heaven if you believe in Jesus? Interesting , so what about those brought up in islam ,but serve their God with all their heart and mostly do no wrong? You were brought up in a christian home just like they were brought up in islam , so imagine telling them what they have been told since birth is wrong ?

Again, we must get to that point of reconciliation with God. This is not a physical,external matter; it is something done in spirit, by the Spirit and in Truth. Adam was not created a sinner but he became one after he fell; any means of reconciliation then must restore man back to that state of fellowship and reconciliation with God, partaking in His Nature by His Spirit. Only those who were thus reconciled with God while alive, get to Heaven after they die. And in God's wisdom, since by man came slavery to sin and separation from God, by Man also comes freedom and reconciliation to God.

4.The story of Job- i guess everyone knows the story .Why did God decide to test Job in order to proof a point to the devil? He sees all and knows all, so why prove a point to your worst creation?

I cannot answer this question; to me, it, like many other that we see today, will become clearer on the other side. Meanwhile I believe Job's reaction/attitude is an exemplary one in a world of some inexplicables:

Job 23:10-12
10 But He knows the way that I take [He has concern for it, appreciates, and pays attention to it]. When He has tried me, I shall come forth as refined gold [pure and luminous].
11 My foot has held fast to His steps; His ways have I kept and not turned aside.
12 I have not gone back from the commandment of His lips; I have esteemed and treasured the words of His mouth more than my necessary food.

5.The apple- why was it there in the first place, Again he sees all and knows all, why create something that you know for sure will ruin your creations future for millions of years to come?

God made man (likewise the angels) with a freewill and it would be against His Nature to force man into a state contrary to the freewill he has. That's why the consequence of the forbidden fruit was clearly given beforehand.The Bible reveals that God knows our hearts( which controls us:our words and actions) and our inclinations based on what is in the heart; but it is silent about His knowing our wills and the choice it will make (not that He cannot know but He chooses not to in keeping with His Nature: giving us a right to choose!.). He has chosen to limit Himself to our hearts.

As regards the forbidden fruit, here is what I believe:
The statement made by God in Genesis 3:22 shows that Adam was made but there was a certain allowance made for his freewill, in other words he was to choose how he will be for all eternity, more like a period of decision (I dont know how long this was to last). Not that death was already existent, but in that state, Adam was to choose the life he wanted and was warned of the outcome if he went for the forbidden tree
Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Meaning before he fell, Adam was in a state of probation the choice he made will decide what he was to be for all eternity. If he and Eve had gone for this tree, the consequence will mean they would live forever in the state they were made (best) and if after taking the forbidden fruit they took of this one, there will be nothing like redemption!!! I believe satan had not finished with them before God came around (or he did not know the implication of that tree) else he might have persuaded them to take of that one too and be his servants for ever!!!!!!!!

6. Back in the old testament, God was always revealing himself one way or the other to people . Why now when there's been so many wars, famine , all kind of crimes has God not appeared some how some way in the sky to warn us about hell etc? does he want most people to end up in hell? He can stop all this by revealing himself to stop how evil the worlds got now

Discuss, only mature discussions please

All God's revelation in the OT culminated when Jesus became flesh. After His ascension, He sent the Holy Spirit Who is still present today. But you know what? Just as those in the OT still rebelled, many have once been convicted/spoken to by the Spirit, or through people He sends, but they harden themselves and God will not force anyone! But know that he who chooses a course automatically chooses its consequence.
The Presence of the Holy Spirit in NT capacity makes us better positioned than the world in the OT times.

OlaoChi:
1. Did Jesus curse?
Matthew 5: 22 - "...but anyone who say, you fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Yet, your Jesus repeatedly called people fools. See Matthew 23: 17, 19 - "You blind fools…", Luke 11: 40 - "You fools…" Jesus said in Matthew 5: 44 - "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you. Yet he called his opponents names and hurled insults in Matthew 23: 33, 27, 17, 19, 15. John 10: 8, Luke 11: 40, Matthew 12: 34.

Let me answer this way: a soldier kills on the battle field when protecting his country's interests against external aggression after
diplomatic negotiations fail. the same soldier dares not kill his neighbour who offends him; the best is to report same at a police station.

Point is Matthew 5:22 speaks of when you have been offended as a person.

You will never find Jesus saying this when He was personally assaulted:When He was called Beelzebub by the Pharisees, when the samaritans rejected His coming, when the soldiers slapped and mocked Him, when Judas brought the mob etc these were personal offences and He gracefully went through them.


Jesus at these times was declaring God's judgement against the unbelieving, hypocritical pharisees after all He made it clear that He never spoke of Himself but as the Father commanded Him.

2. Was Jesus capable of lies or dishonesty?
John 7:8-10 "You go to the feast. I am not yet going up to this feast, because for me the right time has not yet come. Having said these he stayed in Gallilee. However, after his brothers had left for the feast, he went also, not publicly but in secret."

Read the reference very well. He said the right time had not come (I invite you to study that clause in the book of John) meaning He would not go till the right time. My belief is that the Father led Him when it was time (just as the case of Lazarus when he was sick).

3. Did Jesus' (a.k.a the Prince of Peace) came to make the world more about love, cordiality and peace?
Matthew 10: 34: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

If you read down the chapter you will understand. Why would He heal one of those that came to arrest Him if He wanted bloodshed? Why did He not call for the Legions of Angels? Why did He not grant the request of two of His disciples who wanted to call down fire on the Samaritans?
The passage you quoted talks about the persecution those who receive Him will experience in their families and how this might lead to a division. Meaning, dont expect everybody to appreciate and agree with you when you receive Him.

4. Did Jesus nursed the mission or ambition to Christianize the whole world?
Matthew 10: 5-6 - "These twelve Jesus sent with the following instructions: 'Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of israel. Matthew 15: 24-26. "He answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of israel. The woman came and knelt before him, 'lord help me!' She said. He replied, 'it's not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs.'

This statement was made before His death and resurrection. Himself warned the Jews about seeing people from all over the world in the kingdom but they themselves cast out. John 3:16 summarizes it all. Jesus was the Seed in Whom all the nations will be blessed.

5. Did jesus drank/partied?
Matthew 11: 18-19 - "For john came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'he has a demon.' The son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The highlighted tells you He was quoting what people said;just as they said He was Jeremiah, OT prophets etc

6. Did jesus came to destroy the roundly barbarous 'Old Testament' as many christians claim?
Matthew 5: 17 - "Do not think that I've come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but fulfill them."

The quote has answered your question.

They are separate proverbs that prescribe various course of action which calls for discernment as to when which of the two should be applied.

Insightful analysis! However, I may not fully agree because of the clarity of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy. The break between the 69th and 70th week, the church age/time of the Gentiles we are in now which will culminate with the rapture, is/was a mystery to OT prophets and may not be easily reconciled with your analysis. The rapture which will signal the end of the Church age and the commencement of the 70th week is a period the end of which is only known to the Father.

nynbrada:
You've said it all. God bless.

Glory be to God. God bless you too.

The rapture would precede the Great tribulation. The pre-rapture believers are not the tribulation saints referred to in Revelations 7:14 & 20:4. Besides, the rapture described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 does not fit into the 7yr tribulation period; it precedes it. Furthermore, the coming of Jesus after the tribulation is not to take saints to Heaven (rapture) but to overthrow the antichrist and commence the millenial reign see Revelations 19:11-21 & 20:1-6.

Hello, I want to suggest a section be created for properties available for rent/let/lease.

Thank you.