₦airaland Forum

MizJanet:
I actually met an indoctrinated folk like you who also Lack knowledge !

He told me there is something called resurection

I ASK: whats resurection

He Replied : coming back to live

I ASK : when will it happen

He Replied: Future

I Asked : but ur religion said you dont die , how will u now come back to life ?

He Replied : yes , actually we dont die , but our flesh died . So that flesh or body will be resurected back for us .

I asked : so u wont have flesh until resurection, do u belive in ghosts preach by your religion ?

He Replied : Yes .

I Asked : BUT your religion affirms that when ghosts appear they appear in human form , and people could see them ; where do they get their flesh since it hasnt been resurected yet ?


He Replied : to confess, actually have not seen one , I just belive. But have also heard something along that line of ghost coming in flesh , that question is something I need to research on . Thanks .

He activates his thinking . And ponder on the point raised . Thats exactly what you should do about the original post

In research, we consider both primary and secondary sources of data, we do a literature review before we round up with a conclusion. Your hasty conclusion based on a single interview with one still growing in knowledge reeks of Theophobia; not atheism

MizJanet:
Death and Ressurection Of Jesus

Pastor : jesus died for your sins

I : do u belive what u just said ?

Pastor : Yes .

I: but christians dont belive people die , they belive they are transformed .

Since you made this statement, prove it with at least three verse from the scriptures!
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Thank God for the Bereans!

dalaman:
It's actually worse. Those that practice slavery today know there are doing a bad thing so they hide their business away and conduct it in the dark. Your God saw nothing wrong with people buying and owning each other as slaves.

Certain practices suited the realities of the era in which they were practised, as things change, technology advances and civilisation progresses, some of such practices either metamorphose or are totally abandoned.
The modern day employer and employee relationship is one of such metamorphosed practices. Some similarities are:
1. An employee's time for a particular period of the day is bought hence that time will be used only for the employer's purposes ;
2. Except in idle times, an employee needs the approval of the employer before embarking on personal agenda within the time bought;
3. The employee offers his skills and time for use of the employer and hopes the latter accepts his offer.
4. There are some outsourcing firms that accumulates such employees and sends them out to their clients as the demand arises in exchange for a fee paid not to the employee but to the outsourcing firm (these firms may get jumbo fee and pay peanuts to the employees)

For one who lived around 1300 BCE, the practise above will be unacceptable! The labour-intensive situation then meant you had to be sure of your work force unlike the high labour turnover recorded in some places today, focus was labour security. Today, given the advancement in technology and the continual redundance of human labour,focus is job security.

There was a time when you could hunt down any animal and use firewood lavishly and fell trees indiscriminately and fish from any water body. But today, you could even be arrested for doing some of these things in some places!{ Interestingly, the same law(1300 BCE given) you are castigating already advocated Natural Resources Conservation!!} At those times, it was normal, things were generally primitive and labor-intensive meaning no matter how many people exploited these things there could be no issue of extinction or ecological imbalance but as technology began to advance and mass production became possible, restrictions on these practices became necessary!

Corollary? Consider history in the context of its epoch, not yours!

malvisguy212:
honestly , you guys are missing the points, let try this way:

What is slave in this context ?"Slaves" in this context are debtors (mortgage holders, for instance), employees, and tax payers. We still have slavery. You are probably a slave unless you are an entrepreneur with no debt.

Read the whole context . Do you read everything in just a few sentences or verse ?? Can you not read the whole chapter and comprehend the meaning? Old Testament laws regulating slavery are confusing to modern people, but in
their historical context they provided a
degree of social recognition and legal
law protection to slaves that was
advanced for its time (Exodus 21:20-27;
Leviticus 25:44-46). We must keep in
mind that on occasion it was an
alternative to the massacre of a enemy
populations in wartime and the
starvation of the poor during famine
times.Being a slave was a better then
dieing of starvation There were strict
laws on how a person was to be treated
.This was not the same kind of slavery
you think of as American black slavery
.A slave owner in the bible could be
killed by law for treating a person slave
wrongly . A Mutually Beneficial
Relationship Frequently was involved
here.Fact in Bible times this was much
more of an employer/employee
relationship than an owner/slave situation. Even the words used to
delineate between a hired servant and
a slave are difficult for modern folks to
comprehend .

The major challenge here is that these folks are being anachronistic perhaps inadvertently or deliberately (being blinded by Theophobia). I challenge any one to consider the matter from the perspective of the realities (technological, global, economical and commercial) that was obtainable then.( As a hint, Moses died around 1273 BCE meaning these laws were given around 1313 BCE.) Until that is done. all conclusions based on such a false premise (due to timing differences) share that attribute with the premise.

Indeed the pharisees (that accused Jesus of using beelzebub) are not all dead!

malvisguy212:
Galatian1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven
should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned!

Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are
contrary to the teaching you have
learned. Keep away from them.
God bless you scholar.

Amen! And you too.

Delusiongirl20:
You are missing it somewhere. There is god that are morally upright, that commands our moral obligations, he directs our do-and-donts, how we interact within ourselves. He suppose to command them not do so and and to stop since they are already doing it.

You arecdoing all these to divert attentions. To be sincere with you.

I have my brain

At a time when technology was very primitive (unlike today), the need for human capital was very high; productive activities were largely labour-intensive; most times, slaves were required only for economic activities (agriculture, building etc). In fact, those who were poor gave themselves out as slaves to get a benefit eg Jacob, Egyptians to Pharaoh Genesis 47:25,26 etc Hence thew law given was to guide how they were to relate with them given the reality that was obtainable then. An abrupt halt to the practise will mean that, in some cases, the slaves will be worst hit.

davien:
Again,what justifies the death of the bull if a few has been paid for the crime?

[size=14pt]The ransom is for the life of the owner of the killer Ox[/size] who knew his Ox dangerous tendencies but left it to roam freely
Exodus 21:29,30
29 But if the ox had the habit of goring, and its owner was warned, and he did not take the necessary precautions, and then it killed a man or a woman, the ox must be stoned and the man must be put to death.
30 If a ransom is set for him, then he must pay the redemption for his life according to whatever amount was set for him.

But how do you 'correct' that habit for the Ox?

If this is your answer to putting slaves in those situations in the first place,then it's blissfully illegible...

So, was this referring to a slave? Exodus 21:28 You still sound as though the Ox will gore only slaves!!!

Good boy,then by your logic once again the verse about the ox being killed and the owner paying isn't a command also but a request

But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

Your premise for that conclusion is faulty; where is the IF that justify your claim? Seems you don't understand that statement! \

You keep chasing your own tail and falling on your own logic buddy... If I had a dollar for every time that happened I'd be a billionaire..

Oh good, you finally got another soon to be overworked cliche!

Delusiongirl20:
I over exaggerated but is just slavery. An institution or social practice of owning human beings as property, especially for use as forced laborers. A condition in which one is captivated or subjugated.

Well, like I said, things evolved to what it is today; there was a starting point. One of the reason/need for slaves then was because of the Agrarian nature of the society. Then there was nothing like mechanised farming and not every body had the wherewithal to engage in large scale farming. If you read through the New testament, although the master-servant relationship was referred to (and that was because the Gentiles eg Romans etc still had slaves), I would say the hopeless, heartless servitude was abolished. Consider Paul writing this to a master concerning his servant:
Phil. 1:15,16
15 For perhaps it was for this reason that he was separated from you for a little while, so that you would have him back eternally, 16 no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, as a dear brother. He is especially so to me, and even more so to you now, both humanly speaking and in the Lord.

Colossians 4:1
Masters, treat your slaves with justice and fairness, because you know that you also have a master in heaven.

This was unthinkable during the comparatively recent slave trade.

davien:
So tell me how one determines the dangerous tendencies of an ox?

Exodus 21:29,30
29 But if the ox had the habit of goring, and its owner was warned, and he did not take the necessary precautions, and then it killed a man or a woman, the ox must be stoned and the man must be put to death.
The Ox had a habit and its owner had been notified by those who witnessed/noticed it.

Yep,because an ox killing a man is more extreme than laws against the slavery that endangered such people in the first place?

So the Ox got programmed to read labels before attacking!? Or is it that you did not see that it was mentioned that the Ox could wound one who was not a slave?!

what claims have I pushed other than what the Bible wrote?...and how does the term "if" disqualifies the situation when it is used for a possible concept... .

'If' shows it is not a command to sell daughters as slaves.

You're finally grasping at straws as a last bait

An overworked cliche by NL atheists!

davien:
So what then justifies killing the ox if a "ransom" is paid?

The ransom is for the life of the owner of the killer Ox who knew his Ox dangerous tendencies but left it to roam freely
Exodus 21:29,30
29 But if the ox had the habit of goring, and its owner was warned, and he did not take the necessary precautions, and then it killed a man or a woman, the ox must be stoned and the man must be put to death.
30 If a ransom is set for him, then he must pay the redemption for his life according to whatever amount was set for him.

So discipline involves beating to near-death and not being held accountable for death if he sucvumbs to his wounds within a few days?

This law was to cover possible extreme conditions. No where did this happen in scripture.

So selling a daughter as a sex slave because of a divine commandment isn't worse than say because you don't know any better?

There is nothing to prove your claims here. Notice the words IF and BETROTHED.

davien:
Exodus


21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

A ransom was to be paid by the Ox owner in the case of a slave or a free man.
I doubt this was so during the slave trade she referred to.

21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

The same rods was to be used in child training Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates their children,
but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, [b]she shall not go out as the menservants do.

21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. [/b]

How is this worse than the era referred to by the original inquirer? In fact I find the VS 8 very humane and a respect for the maid even though she was a servant.

Delusiongirl20:
How do we know the truth on this context?

The Truth is Jesus: The Way, The TRUTH and The Life, NO man comes to the Father but by Him!

Delusiongirl20:
I know but that doesn't make sense, slave in the bible is even worse than the present days slavery which was abolished. Why not god said too, thou shall not enslave your fellow human as he commanded in other aspects of human life and interactions.

Kindly prove this.

And there are NLers today that stand no where in rank,intellect,means, training or exposure to these named above, who claim, 'contradictions', 'myths' in the Bible,etc!!! I think those NLers are a graphic illustration of being wise in your own conceits!

Delusiongirl20:
A period of service was given after which the servitude ends forget about the money paid! In fact the highlighted suggests that there could be some that will prefer remaining with a master this already suggests that this was not a slavery like the one done where you remained a slave for life under harsh conditions.

The master may trick the slave by giving him a wife so to serve him forever, it will be an inheritance after him. And leaving your master is only pertainet to jewish slaves, but foreigners is a different case.

As per the highlighted, that is your reasoning. Nothing in the command permits or encourages that. Every country has constitutions that favours her citizens above the foreigners.

Just as the same Bible admonishes parents to beat their children too with the same rod: Proverbs 23:13,14

The bible never commanded you to beat your child to death or injure him to the point of halve death as the case with slavery

Please show me where the Bible commanded us to beat a slave to injury or coma! I wish you read the verses in Proverbs:

13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

14 [size=13pt]Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell[/size].

31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him.

The amount of ransom, not for the wounded but for the careless owner of the Ox whose harmful tendencies were already known. For a slave, the ransom is fixed but for others, their relatives will decide. Hence that money is not the price of the slave; let's not read meanings that appear to suit our points.

Why not do so for everybody instead of prejudice and discrimination of a certain people.

As long as a ransom is paid for both.

Fact is, like it is today, there will always be employers and employees, master and servants.

"I worked you pay me' is different from owning one as a property. Contemporary employees, master, servant is not a compulsory thing. One can decide not to engage or disengage anytime he or she feels like.

Just like other aspects of civilization, things evolved but there was a starting point!

One funny thing is that people take because of the Bible and GOD, then stop reasoning properly

Isn't that Wonderful

The enemy of Truth will only expend his arrows and efforts in Truth's direction. His time is short hence he wont waste it on others that are no disturbance to him. False prophets and teachers have always been there to try to twist /change the Word just as their master, satan, did to Eve in the Garden!

Delusiongirl20:
Both old and new testament supported slavery. Check out tgis verses:

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1:

Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says[b], 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.[/b]

A period of service was given after which the servitude ends forget about the money paid! In fact the highlighted suggests that there could be some that will prefer remaining with a master this already suggests that this was not a slavery like the one done where you remained a slave for life under harsh conditions.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Not only does God condone slavery, but he is also completely comfortable with the concept of beating your slaves, as long as you don't kill them.

Just as the same Bible admonishes parents to beat their children too with the same rod: Proverbs 23:13,14

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32:

[b]If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.

Not only does God condone slavery, but here God places a value on slaves -- 30 shekels of silver. Note that God is not sophisticated enough to understand the concept of inflation. It is now 3,000 years later, and a gored slave is still worth 30 shekels of silver according to God's word.

Exodus 21:30,31 shows that that amount is just a compensation.
30 If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.

31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him.

The amount of ransom, not for the wounded but for the careless owner of the Ox whose harmful tendencies were already known. For a slave, the ransom is fixed but for others, their relatives will decide. Hence that money is not the price of the slave; let's not read meanings that appear to suit our points.

Fact is, like it is today, there will always be employers and employees, master and servants.

malvisguy212:
Good points bro, God bless you.

Amen. God bless you too.

F00028:
Luke 6:40 (KJV):The disciple is not above his master: but everyone that isperfectshall be as his master.

however in aramaic the bolded word is actually MUSLIM:
"Ein talmeed na'leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she'MUSHLAM yihyeh k'rabbo."
The most accurate and honest translation forthe Aramaic 'mushlam' is none other than the Arabic, 'muslim'.The Hebrew word "mushlam" comes from the root "Sh L M". "Shalom" which comes from the same root means "peace". The Arabic word "muslim" comes from the root "S L M". "Salam" means "peace". "Salem" means "safe".see the Aramaic bible society ,

http://home.comcast.net/~rzuberi/index_files/page0005.htm , and
http://home.comcast.net/~rzuberi/articles/Being_Like_The_Teacher.pdf .


https://www.nairaland.com/1166368/according-jesus-christ-being-muslim#13882898

Kindly give us John 3:16,17 in aramaic and tell us if muslims believe that too.

Delusiongirl20:
But the content of the bible doesn't appeal to my kind of person because most of its contents are immoral. For example, slavery, encouraged killing of other tribes - GENOCIDE, thou shall not kill but the same god told the Israelites to kill men, children, then keep the virgins, and numerous other immoral acts encouraged in the bible.

Those were acts of Judgement that were not without warning. Notice that the nation concerned were likewise judged when they committed same abominations. It will also be wrong to say it encourages immoral acts. Why? The dealings of God with man recorded therein indicates a dispensation by dispensation process which culminates in the New Covenant/testament sealed by Jesus Christ. Those dispensational instructions (not the moral laws) ended with those dispensations. At present, the New testament through Christ has its instructions which , when obeyed empowers to fulfil the righteous demands of the law not by external trying/struggling but by faith. However, judgement still has its time.

Actually, I recommended a Person!

Delusiongirl20:
Since the world is now a global village, which of the moral law givers should we choose out of thousands of others?



Options

Yahweh
Jesus
Allah
Krishna
Zeus
Budha
Eck spiritual grand master
...

I recommend Jesus. Why? He transforms from inside out! Not just delivering Divine fiats but also enabling and empowering you do same sans struggling!

Indeed! A reference point that deals with the thoughts before/and the actions and that not only reveals the wrong but gives a lasting remedy, a means for freedom is needed:
Look at this scenario:
1. I won't steal because I find it repulsive.
2. I won't steal because I put myself in the shoes of the owner.(so far,so good)

3. I don't see anything wrong in sexual immorality as long as the other party is consenting. (At this point, the lust for pleasure will not make it repulsive, neither will it make you put yourself in the shoes of the parents of the lady!.)

4. After 3., an unwanted pregnancy occurs and here you are, still squatting and struggling to make ends meet, you think," It wont be fair to bring a child into this world to suffer" then you opt for an abortion:
i.At this point, empathy fails as you no longer consider the unborn child, risk to the mother, the parents of the mother etc.

5. Maybe you decide to keep the child and along the line, you get married to another person other than its mother, the selfishness and warped premise of point 3 shines forth as you have a child out of wedlock and no matter what, that child will not have as much of you as the ones born after your marriage! Is that fair?! Matters become worse if the mother also gets married to a man who will not keep custody of the same kid then it battles rejection and feeling of being unwanted (if suicide is not committed along the line).

6. Or let's say after 3, immorality continues and both parties remain consenting on the basis of marriage promises in future. After some years, you see someone else, and decide to marry her instead, whither your morality based on empathy? All of a sudden, acting based on empathy becomes impossible because:
i. you make the laws and can break it at will:
ii you consider your future happiness only and not that of your sin partner because you know she cant guarantee your happiness as much as the new person!

Conclusion morality based on empathy or personal conscience only, is inadvertently (and sometimes deliberately) skewed in the favour of the person, not others. That is not morality then but conditional fairness, the condition being your not having much to loose.

The enemy of Truth will only expend his arrows and efforts in Truth's direction. His time is short hence he wont waste it on others. False prophets and teachers have always been there to try to twist /change the Word just as their master, satan, did to Eve in the Garden!

Peter identified himself as an elder , equal in position to others that were converted after him:
1 Peter 5:1
The [b]elders which are among you I exhort, [size=13pt]who am also an elder[/size][/b]and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:


He further referred to Jesus (not himself) as the Chief Shepherd(erroneously used for the pope):

1 Peter 5:4
And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Benjamin must have had daughters (not sons only) such that the names included in Genesis 46 were their husband's names since right from Genesis, Daughters are hardly mentioned in genealogies. Meaning, at other times, the biological sons and their sons may be mentioned while occasions may demand that the names of both biological and legal sons (who married the daughters) are named.

Genesis 5:4-10 etc

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

The above even shows that there might be times when not all the sons are named!
Moreover, it will be anachronistic to analyse these genealogies with the eyes of today's principles! The principle below is no longer in practise today:
Genesis 3:7,8

7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him.

8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Also:
Deuterenomy 25:5,6



Per vs 8, the child (if he had been born) will be named in Er and Onan's genealogy as the son of both men for genealogical and inheritance purposes! (This practise is key to understanding issues like Salathiel and Zerrubabel in Luke and Matthew's genealogy etc)

truthman2013:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.…..

.....Number 31:17 "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

..truthman..

Kindly note that the Gentile disciples of Christ (NOT MOSES) today are so because of the New covenant/testament through Jesus Christ. Therefore, quote a similar command (similar to Numbers 31:17) in the New testament; that will be relevant. It's just like accusing gentile believers of disobedience/ unfaithfulness because they do not celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles!


Besides, that quote would be applicable if you were discussing with a Judaizer. Meanwhile, if you read the whole chapter, God was judging Midian (not because they did not convert to a religion) but because by their evil antics, judgement came on 24,000 Israelites and the guilt was mutual (Israel and the other nation) hence their portion of the judgement came by Israel by God's command!(He could have used a plague like He did to Israel if He chose to.)

5solas:
Does it sound reasonable to you that God created the world with no end in view?
I sound? What does scripture say, how does it sound?

What end? I hope you are not saying Adam was going to die even if he did not fall because Bible clearly states that death came through sin! And I doubt He that is of purer eyes than to behold sin will enlist its services because He wants an end!!!

1 Pet. 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Eph. 1
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of[b] his will[/b],

The highlighted shows God's will was established from the beginning and has not changed; rather inspite of the fall, God's Eternal purpose still stands! The only means it will have been permanently shelved was if Adam had taken of the Tree of Life and lived forever in that fallen state and God moved to avert this!

Did you actually read the above before posting or you just had to say something? I am supposed to be asking you this question, not the other way round!

God had an end in view when He created Man. Man cannot frustrate His ultimate will.

An end meaning the adoption of man that He had made but that was not to be without the free moral agency of the man hence the momentary test of the Garden!

It was His purpose to have sons and He knew definitely that Man would fall.

Prove the highlighted from scripture! I don't doubt the Omni-science of God but I would not make extrapolations and inferences that are not Scriptural.

By faith or not! Whatever is that suppose to mean? Your writing seems to shun the light.
Except the Son/Father is revealed to us we must all perish.

Those who believe enter into that purpose provided they remain and increase therein while those who do not believe are denied access. And is the revelation of the Son only meant for some lucky, pre-selected few? Is it not written that it is God's will that all men be saved? Or are you saying that God wills all men to be saved and at the same time has predestinated (chosen beforehand) those that will be saved?! Is it then sincere to say 'whosoever will' when He has already selected those He will receive?

dan2ene:
Reading through your posts and those who share same position with you, I see that:

1. You are aware of eternal destinations (heaven or hell) and that salvation is required for to make heaven.

2. You believe that salvation is by grace and not by works.

These are fundamental truths of the new testament.

However, your understanding of grace as reflected in your posts seem faulty. You need to understand that, while you are not required to "work" to obtain salvation (other than bringing fruit meet for repentance, believe and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Savior), there is a work IN grace which you need to keep your salvation. Titus 2:11-12 tells us what grace is, what it brings, what it TEACHES US TO DO...note the capitalized. Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lust and teaches us to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world...that is the work IN grace. That is why Apostle James in his epistle put forward that your faith and work (work in grace) go together.

You need to ask yourself why are their temptations? Why did Jesus warn about many being deceived in the end times, why did he say if any who after putting his hand into the plough and looks back is not fit for the kingdom. Why are Christians warned to watch and pray?

The doctrine of eternal security sounds like this... "I am born again... I am sealed for eternal glory... irrespective of my actions I remain saved...even if I go back to those things Jesus Christ redeemed me from... I will still be saved...once saved always saved". This is very wrong and heretic as it makes the blood of Jesus of non effect... and nullifies the entire new testament.

While you claim to support holy living, you should know this doctrine provides safe haven for sin lovers who run from the light of the gospel of truth because they don't want to give up sin and would not want to hear the consequences of their sinfulness.

There is nothing wrong in being conscious of the terror of hell fire as it will continually keep you on guard and grateful for salvation.

So much has been said already by few well meaning persons in this thread. I sincerely pray you take this into fruitful consideration. The consequence of being deceived and deceiving others is inconceivable.

Thank God for your life!

5solas:
Adam and his descendants were not being addressed in the book of Ephesians!
People who had put their faith in Christ were. They were told they were chosen before the foundation of the world!
It is that simple.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding my posts? Quote where I said Ephesians was written to Adam!

5solas:
If you agree that God's eternal purpose was before the fall, what is the need for the bolded? Do you think God's plan changes just as man's and that He was not certain Man would fall?

This question should be directed to you. All that we become joint-heirs for after we believed, were they part of God's purpose before the fall or were new plans after the fall?

5solas:
So , in your view , the Book of Ephesians was written to Adam and Eve?

The purpose of God described therein was God's original purpose for Adam and his: his descendants that was to replenish the earth. The fall halted this temporarily but is resumed through the Gospel.