₦airaland Forum

lexiconkabir:
in john16 jesus used the word comforter in four verses. in these verses the word "comforter" is translated from the word "paraclete"("ho parakletos" in greek) parakletos in greek means an advocate, someone who speaks for others, we were told that after the departure of christ a paraclete will come, this paraclete in john16:26 is pointed out as "the holyghost" the greek manuscript speaks of "holy pneuma" the word pneuma(pnyooma) is the greek root word for "spirit" there is no separate word for "ghost" the only verse of the bible that associate the holyspirit with paraclete is john16:26, but if we go back to the ancient greek manuscript for the "paraclete" they all not agree with "holyspirit" for instance the famous codex syriacus, reads "paraclete, the spirit" and not the holyspirit. "spirit" in the new testament means "a human prophet"(check 1john4:1-3) therefore jesus predicted the coming of a human prophet(not holyspirit) that will teach us new things. who best fit this position other than muhammad(s.a.w)?

To set the records straight:
In the NT spirit/Spirit refers to what that word stands for! Let's see 1 John 4:1-3
1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The prophet/teacher/pastor is inspired by either the Spirit of God or the spirit of the antichrist hence you test the spirit/Spirit inspiring the speaker!

And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 the same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said [size=13pt]to the spirit[/size], I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Acts 16:16-18 Note that the lady spoke by a false spirit hence Paul addressed not the damsel but the spirit!

Another example:

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel;
for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luke 1:67,68 Zechariah prophesied because of the Inspiration of the Spirit.

Acts 1:5 were the Words of Jesus;
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

adewalker:
. From ur right up what it seems u are saying is that all man including a new born baby who know nothing is guilty of sins,simply becos Adam sinned,so becos of something he didn't do,God will punish him,and so to redeem him God kills and innocent man for his inherited sins,so according to ur believe God punishes u for a sin u didnt commit,so after God punished adam and Eve,he will styl ask u for the sins they committed,how can u reason like that

Did I mention guilt or nature? (Hint: Just re-read the post)

,so let's ask jesus if man was born a sinner? Jesus says matt 18 :5"I tell u the truth,unless u change and become like little children,u will never enter the kingdom of God"jesus is telling u unless u become as innocent of sins as children u will never make heaven,he's clearly telling man was born sinless

Don't read your own meanings bro, the reference to children there refers to the humble and dependent nature of children, nought of sinlessness was mentioned!

,I don't know y jesus says something,and u people unbelivably understands the opposite,this is english 4 God sake,God says in the quran 35:18"and no bearer of burden shall bear another burden,and if one laid with burden werre to call another,nothing of it will be lifted even if he were to be of kin". God is not unjust my friend,he already gave u free willl,watver u do with that,its u and only u He will question,not ur son,not ur dad

That's why Jesus was born of a virgin by the Power of the Spirit hence He came without the inherited sinful nature, just like Adam, and He only could redeem us from sin!

malvisguy212:
I'd take this as a 'bible study class. Nice one bro. God bless you.

Glory be to God and Father of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! God bless you too.

MrPristine:
Also with regards to John 3:16 belief in Jesus does not necessarily mean belief in his name but a belief in his teachings. Now most of his teachings was about doing good and living a righteous life. His greatest commandment to us was to love others and this is what matters most.

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in [size=13pt]the name[/size] of the only begotten Son of God.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 9:15

And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all
Acts 3:16


We believe on His Name to be saved,

teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.
Matthew 28:20

We follow His teachings by His Grace after we have truly believed and become disciples, not before!

lexiconkabir:
@scholar8200, (1)this laws(torah) are still practiced by the muslims, unlike what you told me on some certain thread that jesus came to abrograte the law or the law was already broken(so-to-speak), this implies christians practice lawlessness. actually the main objective of the torah and injeel is the preaching of the oneness of God(not three in one), this is what we muslims are ask to follow............

I never used that word, 'abrogated' there! Jesus fulfilled the Law and because of Him, we no longer kill rams as sacrifice, observe feasts eg passover etc But the moral Law -that reflects the love, justice and holiness of God which He also fulfilled, is also fulfilled in those who Believe and obey Him today! Regarding the Torah, do muslims believe this:

For the life (the animal soul) is in the blood, and I have given it for you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement, by reason of the life [which it represents].Leviticus 17:11

If yes, by what means is it practised today? If no,why?

(2)yes they are differences, paul told many lies, contradicting jesus, hence being part of those that corrupted the bible.

Kindly give samples of these contradictions!

adewalker:
. U styl not giving me wat I need,pls my brother reason with me,where did jesus mention original sin,cos I know that's where u are leaning,did Adam and eve tell u or me or my mother before eating 4rm the forbiden tree?no they didn't,why will God then punish u for a sin u no nothing about,this concept of original sin ws brot out from by preachers to programme,jesus didn't say,none of the prophet said it...so adam and eve eats from the tree,God causes them,dt adam from now on u will sweat for bread,so 2day man is always sweating under the sun looking for a way to survive,the woman God curses her too,from now on,in pain and pain will u suffer to give birth,from their on,women give birth in pain,some die even,and yet God styl throws them out of eden,am asking u,is this punishement not enuff?,why would God blame u for something u didn't do,sumtyn u know notyn about,that's not God nature

Original sin refers not to acts of sin but a nature/likeness; a result of Adam's disobedience!
Adam was created , not born, and the purpose of God was that by Adam and Eve, the earth will be populated by descendants that are after Adam's likeness. After he fell to temptation, Adam was separated from God (spiritually) and those born by him came into the world in the same likeness: condition of separation from God:
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, after his image; and he named him Seth.
Genesis 5:3

What was the implication of the highlighted:

The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human thinking was only evil continually.
Genesis 6:5

Was that how God created Adam originally? NO

Said David:
5 Behold, I was brought forth in [a state of] iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me [and I too am sinful].
Psalm 50:5

That is why Jesus also came to bring an end to all that came by Adam's fall:
21 For since [it was] through a man that death [came into the world, it is] also through a Man that the resurrection of the dead [has come].
1Corinth 15:21

For just as by one man’s disobedience (failing to hear, [k]heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man’s obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).
Romans 5:19

,ezekiel 18:20 the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,nor the father the son...this is how God works,wen u sin God makes u pay for it

This is different from an inherited nature! An inherited nature that will express itself in a sinful lifestyle. Nobody can fully pay for his sins!!!
Psalm49:7
7 None of them can by any means redeem [either himself or] his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him—
Sin affects both time and Eternity and is judged in both realms! So whatever repercussions we suffer for sin on earth does not atone for our sins:
It is blood that makes atonement for the soul!

nt and innocent person,not ur dad,don't let ur preacher cloud u,think by urself my brother,...is that a show of mercy,blaming u for sins u didn't commit,then killing an innocent soul to pay for the sins,haba my brother don't let the white man lead u to astray...

That is why apart from forgiveness, The Redemption accomplished by Christ is particularly directed towards transformation of the nature of man:
And He made no difference between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith ([d]by a strong and welcome conviction that Jesus is the Messiah, through Whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God).
Acts 15:9

25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but within they are full of extortion (prey, spoil, plunder) and grasping self-indulgence.
26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and of the plate, so that the outside may be clean also.
Matthew 23:25,26
Vs 25 describes that which religion does for you- whitewashes the external only while the heart/nature remains the same!
The highlighted describes what God does for those who seek Him for it , being one of the greatest blessing in the New Covenant ratified through Jesus Christ!

lexiconkabir:
@bolded was the word bible derived from english? again the torah(laws of moses) and injeel(gospel from the lips of jesus himself) are the books we were referred to.

Now it will be strange to refer you to something no longer in existence for clarifications dont you think?!

Besides,it will be too risky to refer you to that which God was not going to preserve (of course He did)!

And if the Book you were referred to is the Law,Prophets and the Gospel, what differentiates the one of today from the one then?

Besides, that muslims were referred to the Scriptures debunks claims on NL that the Quran corrects the Scriptures, isn't that logical?

I naturally wont refer you to something inferior if you have questions but to a higher authority!

adewalker:
.
Now ur john 3:16 u quoted,was it jesus that uttered those words? Of course not,he didn't utter it

Then prove it!!!

,I said show me where jesus said he is God,english bro,where jesus SAID he is God,all u could do is quote ur historian again

Jesus proclaimed His Oneness with The Father!

That they all may be one, [just] as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe and be convinced that You have sent Me.
John 17:21

I and the Father are One
John 10:30

...now the john 3;16 u quoted is not even in the bible ur christian scholars wrote,they threw the word out,u can't even quote jesus who u worship,where he said worship me,no where in ur bible can quote and yet u claim to follow him.

who is this fictitious 'christian scholar'?! We know there are anti-christs and deceivers hence we dont follow any 'scholar or commentator' blindly! Take note. What then was the problem the pharisees had with Jesus?!
Besides, Jesus said this:
So that all men may give honor (reverence, homage) to the Son just as they give honor to the Father. [In fact] whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, Who has sent Him.
John 5:23

In the person that called jesus lord,u clearly don't understand the language in which bible was written,hebrew,this people also used lord in place of master,rabbi,priest,for example in ur bible sarah adressed abraham as lord,was she worshipping him,of course no,so they use lord also for master.

And behold, a leper came up to Him and, prostrating himself, [size=14pt]:
worshiped Him[/size], saying, Lord, if You are willing, You are able to cleanse me by curing me.
3 And He reached out His hand and touched him, saying, I am willing; be cleansed by being cured. And instantly his leprosy was cured and cleansed.
Matthew 8:2,3 The context of Abraham and Sarah is different! (You appear to be desirous of editing this passage)!

Again in john 13 u quoted and in the luke 24:45 u mentioned,was it jesus saying all those things?absolutely not,it's the words of hear say and historians,jesus didn't say those words,don't make it like his

your opinion that! Unfortunately you cannot prove it!!!

,I ask for a simple thing,quote where jesus SAID"I am God,worship me"if u can give me that,I will be a christian today,cos I know prophets of God don't lie,and we muslims know jesus will never tell a lie,give me the quotes,and in a thousand years on earth u won't get it,cos jesus will never utter such blasphemous words,follow what jesus preached and u are a muslim

List out a sample of what Jesus taught and quote the references!

adewalker:
. So God stopped the use of animal to start the use of human blood? Is that what u are saying?so God takes an innocent man,and kills him for a crime he didn't commit,all to pleasure himself in blood thirst?subhana allah,is this what ur merciful God does,my brother reprogramme urself and think for a minute...

I did not say that! You actually do not realise that the judgement for sin was death (in Eden) and still remains death today! Hence:

But we are able to see Jesus ... crowned with glory and honor because of His having suffered death, in order that by the grace (unmerited favor) of God [to us sinners] He might experience death for every individual person.
Hebrews 2:9

All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:6

Said Jesus:

For even the Son of Man came not to have service rendered to Him, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for ([y]instead of) many.
Mark 10:45

MrPristine:
Obviously you don't understand the parable of the good samaritan, kindly go back to my OP and read again the parable. Verse 25 makes it clear that Jesus was talking about eternal life in that parable. Please read it patiently and with understanding.

What you also need to understand is that you are to study a subject considering all that was said about it and not just running away with a verse/passage! Besides, the parable was given to illustrate who your neighbour is!

Luke 10:29,36
And he, [e]determined to acquit himself of reproach, said to Jesus, And who is my neighbor?

36 Which of these three do you think proved himself a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?

MrPristine:
You seem to be arguing with the stance of Jesus on this matter based on your preconceived notions. I also gave the parable of the good samaritan which Christ taught to teach people the way to eternal life. If you consider that the samaritan was an unbeliever as opposed to the priest and levites who were the most ardent believers yet it was the man deemed to be an unbeliever that Jesus said would receive eternal life based on his good works. Read the parable again with this in mind and reflect deeply devoid of any preconceived notions you might have.

The parable (oh yes it was a parable!.) of the Samaritan was given when a person asked who his neighbour was and not how to enter the kingdom! Nothing was mentioned there of Eternal life for the good Samaritan (afterall the Samaritan was a fictitious figure it being a parable.!!!)

But as regarding the Way to Eternal Life (as your topic reads), Jesus clearly said:

16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.
18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]
John 3:16-18

Also see:
But these are written (recorded) in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ (the Anointed One), the Son of God, and that through believing and cleaving to and trusting and relying upon Him you may have life through (in) His name [[d]through Who He is].
John 20:31

MrPristine:
The bolded above is your own mis interpretation of scripture, the verse did not say 'his' sheep rather it said 'the' sheep. Jesus clearly said it is the righteous that are the sheep. He made no mention of those that believe in him.

Sorry for that! If we will consider the words of Christ and not just run away with one, we'll see that John 3:3 is equally essential.

Infact, the use of sheep and goat points us to a difference in nature being a pointer to the difference salvation makes! We may do good works but the Bible stands: by grace are you saved through faith Ephesians 2 but faith evidences itself by works meaning its saving faith before works not the other way round.

adewalker:
. I wonder y u people say u follow christ,becos u doing exactly opposite of wat he tot,the verse u quoted above me is not a quote of jesus

Prove it!!!

,jesus never ever said he was the begotten son of God

Oh yes He did! John 3:16

,he never said worshipped me

But He accepted the worship of those who sought Him! For example:
And behold, a leper came up to Him and, prostrating himself, [size=13pt]worshiped Him[/size], saying, Lord, if You are willing, You are able to [a]cleanse me by curing me.
3 And He reached out His hand and touched him, saying, I am willing; be cleansed by being cured. And instantly his leprosy was cured and cleansed.
Matthew 8:2,3

,y are u people putting lies on this great man of God by accusing him of blasphemy

and why are you by your words calling God a liar?!

,this verse of the bible was thrown out by the christian scholars who wrote the NIV,the said it was an invention so they threw

'christian scholars wrote the NIV'!!! I wonder why you are quick to refer to them when they do something that agrees with your claim! Meanwhile I hope you realise that the true believer in Jesus knows this:
But also [in those days] there arose false prophets among the people, just as there will be [b]false teachers among yourselves, who will subtly and stealthily introduce heretical doctrines (destructive heresies), even denying and disowning the Master Who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

,jesus never said worship,nor did he say he was God incarnate read ur bible its in plain english

God bless you greatly for this blessed admonition! Now explain what these mean:
And now, Father, glorify Me along with Yourself and restore Me to such majesty and honor in Your presence as I had with You before the world existed.
John 17:5

And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven—the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.
John 3:13

,,read what jesus said,he never said he will die for ur sins

Then Who said this:

45 Then He [thoroughly] opened up their minds to understand the Scriptures,
46 And said to them, [b]Thus it is written that the Christ (the Messiah) should suffer and on the third day rise from ([l] among) the dead,
47 And that repentance [with a view to and as the condition of] forgiveness of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:45-47

,never did he say so,but ur preachers are using it to programme u,u see becos the white man can go to the moon,becos he predict the weather,becos of his sophiscated technology,u all now believe he must be always right,so when the white man tells u someone already died for ur sins,u don't bother asking him how,how can someone take paractemol for ur headache
,u can't even ask him if this was merciful to kill an innocent man for the sin of the world,when the man in question never he mentioned such...its a shame to see african become so programmed

As per the highlighted, shall we ask Moses how Animal substitutionary sacrifice dealt with sin and guilt of the sinner and why it was said that:

11 For the life... is in the blood, and I have given it for you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement, by reason of the life [which it represents].Leviticus 17:11

sportsmaster:
my final quote.

John5:24:-Verily,verily,I say unto you,He that hears my Word and believes on him that sent me,hath everlasting life,and SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION;but is passed from death to life.

John10:28"And i give unto them eternal life;and they shall never perish,neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
29My father which gave them to me is greater than all;no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

what is Jesus saying here?.
I want answers
Cc vooks,scholar8200,jiggaz,ayoku777.

When we talk of the New Covenant, a covenant requires each party to play their roles. The New Covenant is not an exception! Paul wrote under inspiration regarding those who lived during the OT that:
11 Now these things befell them by way of a figure [as an example and warning to us]; they were written to admonish and fit us for right action by good instruction, we in whose days the ages have reached their climax (their consummation and concluding period).1 Corinth 10:11

Now Jesus in those passages made it clear that God is able to keep us to the end. However we need to balance the references above with other places where our part in that covenant is given:

1. John 3:16 (No need to quote this one) talks of the need to believe on Him.

2. John 15:1-7 talks of the need to abide/continue in Him after we have believed else we'll be cast off ;just what Paul said in Romans 11:22:
Then note and appreciate the gracious kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s gracious kindness to you—provided you [size=13pt]continue[/size] in His grace and abide in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off (pruned away).

3. John 15:10 highlights one area where abiding in Him is to be measured:
If you keep My commandments [if you continue to obey My instructions], you will abide in My love and live on in it, just as I have obeyed My Father’s commandments and live on in His love.

Corollary? No man can pluck us out of His hand, AGAINST OUR WILL! Else why did Jesus give this condition:

And he who overcomes (is victorious) and who obeys My commands to the [very] end [doing the works that please Me], I will give him authority and power over the nations;
Revelations 2:26

The Promised Land was given (as a gift) to those under the OT but they failed to take it due to unbelief, the portion they conquered had to be forfeited when they departed from God. Likewise we in the NT receive the gift of righteousness (imputed and imparted) by faith and there is need to continue in that faith and its evidence of a life that pleases God else our faith becomes vain and we become reprobates!
Paul commended these and I believe it describes what we are to continue in:
Recalling unceasingly before our God and Father your work energized by faith and service motivated by love and unwavering hope in [the return of] our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).1 Thessalonians 1:3

lexiconkabir:
@scholar2800, (1)my question was not on mattew, i was telling you to reason why it first appeared in the erasmus 3rd edition bible and why it is the only verse that explicitly ties the father, son and spirit as one...............

It's alright, as believers and disciples of Christ we know all books in the Bible complement each hence the screening of any portion thus accused is done in the light of what other books and passages in the Bible says.

(2)jeremiah was a true prophet, but were all the scribes honest? about the selfish gains well my quran made me understand that(infact it gave me the reason to search your bible)...................

Just as there were false prophets there were false scribes too but God preserved His Word!
Psalm 12:6,7a
6 The words and promises of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in an earthen furnace, purified seven times over.
7 You will keep them and preserve them, O Lord;
Corollary? God was, is and will always Preserve His Word!!

also
Isaiah 34:16
16 Seek out of the book of the Lord and read: not one of these [details of prophecy] shall fail, none shall want and lack her mate [in fulfillment]. For the mouth [of the Lord] has commanded, and His Spirit has gathered them.

(3)you are drawing quotes from mattew's book, the same book that bible scholars are contemplating if it was really written by mattew?....................

That's left to them! Point we should be concerned about is Truth and agreement with God's purposes and prophecies! Besides have you heard of people going to Bible 'seminaries' and coming out confused, deluded and at the brink? It's because we have 'bible scholars' who are actually working for their master- the one that twisted the Word to Eve. Truth has its enemy and there must be tracks of his frantic efforts on all sides!

(4) according to the meaning of THINK you gave, it still says the same thing, to belief means you are not sure but you just have faith you do.

It does not say the same thing. I am surprised that to you, Believe=not sure!!!
Believe=to accept or regard (something) as true

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/believe
It is to be persuaded and the same Paul ministered the same blessing to others!

i seriously advice you to leave paul's uncertainty cuz he was a liar, he said anybody that circumcised, christ will be of no use to that person

You just re-echoed what the unbelieving jews wrongly accused Paul of! His emphasis was that salvation through Christ was not a result of circumcision but faith (Paul himself was circumcised) Meaning no one get's saved by circumcision but by faith! Many christians still circumcise their kids today not because they hope that saves them but because of the health benefits!

, whereas christ himself was circumcised. i'm sure he thinks he has the spirit in him when he told them not to circumcise.

Whereas paul too was circumcised but the bone of contention arose when some people, in seeking relevance, tried to corrupt the Gospel in Acts 15:1!
But some men came down from Judea and were instructing the brethren, Unless you are circumcised in accordance with the Mosaic custom, you cannot be saved.
Even Jesus never enjoined anyone to seek salvation by being circumcised:
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life
John 3:16
Recall that the audience Jesus spoke to here was a high-ranking Pharisee and ruler among the jews and He emphasized believing on Him as the only way of Salvation!

malvisguy212:
very good question. Welcome bro.

Thank you.

lexiconkabir:
@scholar2800,(1) i see no reason why you are trying to ignore my questions(i strongly recommend you analyze the question, i want to make a point, only if you can give the answer to that question)...........

Besides, Matthew 28:19 was spoken by Jesus Himself:
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

(2) this bible verse was not known to early christians, google is your bestie to comfirm this..............

I will rather search the scriptures like Jesus commanded!

(3) talking about scribes, i never said all the scribes were corrupted all i was saying is, the corrupted scribes that jeremiah8:8 was talking about might have made some changes which ofcourse must have mutilated the bible, remember that these scribes were also teachers, they might have taught the wrong words claiming it was God's words perhaps for selfish gains......................

Jeremiah whence you drew that quote was a true prophet and many more,I wonder what passages you have in mind per the highlighted!

(4)about the "death" of jesus, thats a big topic on its own, i suggest we talk on this(as a debate, i am waiting for your response)....................

No problem.

(5)your attempt to clear paul's uncertainty is not agreeable to me, TO THINK means not to be very sure. waiting for your next comment sire.

Let's see this:
think
verb
1.
have a particular belief or idea.

Quite different from the wrong usage you have in mind to mean: not being sure of something because you have not confirmed!

Here was paul again:
Acts 19:6
6 And as Paul laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke in [foreign, unknown] tongues (languages) and prophesied.
Just as the other apostles Peter and John did:
Acts 8:17
Then [the apostles] laid their hands on them one by one, and they received the Holy Spirit.

adewalker:
. Will answer 3 of ur questions,becos in the rest all I see is repeating same questns with different words...1the muslims is made to believe in all the prophets and their messages...now the torah was given to prophet musa,the torah literally means law in hebrew,but u see according to ur bible,when moses came down he angrily broke into shreds,so meaning the original words from God in writing was lost,meaning all that was left are the preachings of moses,and the easiest infomation to twist is the oral,so afta moses died,the jews started compiling the words of moses to form the torah,to suit their religion which moses never even heard of...judaism,the most racist religion on earth...for the injeel,islam is the only religion on surface earth dt makes it an article of faith for its followers to believe in jesus,u are nt a muslim if u don't,u see wen jesus was alive he didn't go preaching with a book,wat he had was his words,the message he came with was called injeel,gospel,and if am to take jesus words in ur bible its not up to 2 pages of a newspaper,so we are made to believe in the message of jesus,the bulk of ur new testament are just stament from paul,and historian...we believe in the gospel of jesus not paul,not mark,not mattew

And according to the Bible what was God's instruction to Moses after the Two tablets were broken and the golden calf dealt with?

Rossy99:
[i][/i]it is widely practice and dey justify it with mary's account.a woman jst gave birth in our church and start attending church the following week after d naming ceremony and another did the christening on sat and attend church on sunday.some people felt irritated by their act which prompt me to find out abt d practice and hear ur own view

Since it is not the pastor that felt irritated, it implies that it is not the Church's belief; then we may require those who felt irritated to read their Bibles and understand what was applicable in the Nt and what wasn't (ceremonial law).

lexiconkabir:
@scholar2800,(1) I asked if you ever wondered why it was first seen in the 3rd edition, why it never appeared in the old greek manuscript and why it is the only verse that explicitly shows the trinity, i will like to know your view about this................

My view remains that if the verse claimed to have been inserted contradicted other scripture, perhaps it would demand scrutiny but it doesnt! In fact, the attack on the Bible (both by open enemies and covert pretenders) and its contents demands that we weigh the truth or otherwise of any claims using what other books/passages in the same Bible say about the issue raised!

.(2) talking about scribes, isnt it possible for them to change the word of God for selfish gain( quran support this) jeremiah 8:8 also supports my statement, if this is the case can the scribes really be trusted? in otherwords can the bible be trusted?..............

you sound as though there were only false scribes?! as though there were only false prophets?! and that God was helpless and only recently acquired the skill of preserving His Word! Interestingly, the quote you are referring to is also from the Bible, now will a false scribe so describe himself? The Law and the Prophets were preserved beyond the time of Christ. Remember that Ezra the scribe came years after Jeremiah and this is what was said:
This Ezra went up from Babylon. He was a skilled scribe in the five books of Moses, which the Lord, the God of Israel, had given. And the king granted him all he asked, for the hand of the Lord his God was upon him.Ezra 7:6

.(3) jesus christ death prophesied in the same bible that cant be trusted............

Yes He died and rose again and there are milions who have received Life through faith in Him and many more are still receiving!!!
Right from Genesis 3:15 it was the purpose of the Father. Besides, the rejection of the death of Christ appears to be a Gnostic concept hence John in 1 John 4 (and Paul in Colossians) endeavoured to alert the believers of that deception. They (Gnostics) masked their teaching in a pretended 'reverence' for God!

(4)paul uncertainty can be found in 1corithians7:40 " but she is happier if she so abide after my judgement, and I THINK i also have the spirit of God.

Alright, if you are familiar with paul's writings you will realise it's a way of expressing an assurance eg

1 Corinth 10:12
Therefore let anyone who thinks he stands [who feels sure that he has a steadfast mind and is standing firm], take heed lest he fall [into sin]

Meaning the word 'think'in both contexts was referring to having an assurance within you.

Now the same paul instructed and directed the same audience on the Gift and gifts of the Spirit saying at a point:
1 Corinth 14:18
18 I thank God that I speak in [strange] tongues (languages) more than any of you or all of you put together;

Op,are you sure? There are many websites that project untrue negatives hence we'll need a muslim to give a transliteration of what is said and their interpretation directly from the Quran.

I am hearing this matter of uncleanness after childbearing in the NT for the first time! And there is no backing for it in the whole NT!!!

lexiconkabir:
@schorlar8200 do you know why the verse was inserted at the 3rd edition of erasmus bible? have you ever wondered why it is the only clear and explicit verse that ties the father, son and spirit as one? if you have please tell me what you think. talking about moses, in the book moses(if you want the verse i will give you), there was a place that talked about a detailed info of his death, are you saying moses wrote about his death? prophesied jesus death where? in the bible right? same bible that the original authors are not known, jeremiah 8:8 do buttress my point

1. I maintain that you will need to show how that which was 'inserted' contradicts other parts!

2. As long as the 'tie' as One does not contradict other passages eg the ones I quoted in my first response.

3. The place you have in mind is Deuteronomy 34 and that was more like an epilogue which by the way sums up the life and ministry of Moses and the events after his death. Of course Moses could not have written that chapter! However there are clear evidences that he wrote through others eg Deuteronomy 31:19, 32:44,45 If you carefully consider these verses, you will see that there were times when the actual writing was done by a right-hand person/scribe (just like Baruch was to Jeremiah Jeremiah 36:32). Hence such a scribe will include details eg death and burial. Samuel wrote 1 Samuel but, as stated before, the book was concluded by another scribe!

4. Jesus death was prophesied in Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, Isaiah 52:13-15, etc

5. Same Bible that millions all through the centuries have believed and obeyed and have found Life! So, if there were some false scribes and false prophets, God could not preserve His Word?! Even when Jeremiah was a prophet there were false prophets that openly contradicted him and what did God say?:

28 The prophet who has a dream, let him tell his dream; but he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What has straw in common with wheat [for nourishment]? says the Lord.
29 Is not My word like fire [that consumes all that cannot endure the test]? says the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks in pieces the rock [of most stubborn resistance]?
Jeremiah 23:28-29

P.S.: Kindly quote the passage where paul wondered if he had the Spirit or not.

Annunaki:
Can you define what it means to be born again? Kindly back up your answer with scripture, thanx.

To be born again is to be born of the Spirit/converted/saved:

1. Born of the Spirit
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

It is a process where the previously dead (i.e separated from Life in God) spirit receives Life once again through God's Holy Spirit in response to saving faith in Jesus Christ

Just as the severance from God resulted in a life that was ,'only evil continually'(Genesis 6:5), upon reconciliation by the Spirit and cleansing from the past, such a person walks in Newness of life.

Titus 3:5b,6
but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

2. Acts 16:31-34,, 2 Corinth 5:17

None of those things gets your name in the Book of Life! Remember Jesus said those on the right are His sheep? Meaning they were His and were saved and knew Him as their Shepherd and their lives radiated love. The chapter just shows that faith reveals itself by works meaning we cannot claim to believe in Christ and live contrary lives- such faith is vain!

It stands
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

As long as the 1 John 5:7 does not contradict the revelation in other parts of Scripture as regards to God, I believe it was not inserted but was a part of the chapter! Besides what was there did not contradict Christ's words in John 17:21, Revelations etc

As regards Matthew, that style of writing was also used by Samuel (writer of large portion of 1 Samuel), Moses (especially in the Pentateuch) etc


Since muslims say they believe all the other prophets then were Isaiah, Daniel, David, Zechariah, Jeremiah etc lying when they prophesied of the death of Jesus Christ? Or was Jesus saying something contradicting these prophets when He said:

Luke 18:31-33
Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.
32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon.
33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.”

Sanctification is also called purification of heart and it is as instantaneous as salvation but of course both gifts of grace allows for growth but there is a point of entry!
See Acts 15:8,9
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Peter here describes two separate Blessing given to Cornelius and his household. It is also called Circumcision of heart:

Deuteronomy 30:6
And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Notice the effects of sanctification: a supreme love for God, as it were, an enabling to keep the greatest commandment and the fulfilling of the law. The same blessing was alluded to as the Substance of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:33

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law within them, and on their hearts will I write it; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.


Daily self-denial and bearing of the cross are expected of all disciples (by the Lord) but Christ saw it fit to intercede for this Gift for His disciples (John 17:17) now and then, in fact, it is one of the benefits of Christ's death on the Cross:

Hebrews 13:12
Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

MhizVee:
Sanctification means being totally free frm sins

Can you support this definition with Bible reference(s)?

Sorry, what is sanctification?

Op, says you can make heaven even if you sin everyday of your life!(I read your article but since this is how you captioned it, it means it summarises your position). But my Bible tells me that:
1. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
Interestingly, people quote this passage only when doing deliverance, they dont realise it was written in relation to freedom from sin (SIN BEING THE LEGAL GROUND FOR THE OPPRESSOR)!

2. 14 But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, “Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.” John 5:14
Now will Jesus say this poor man should do what God cannot enable him to do? Besides, why not focus on deliverance from sin? Why indirectly encourage something that leaves the believers in bondage of worse things that come as result of sin? You mentioned fornication, do you realise that he that is joined to a harlot is one body with her? and that by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread(worthlessness)? No one will lie easily who knows that true repentance includes restitution!!!etc

3. My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But [size=13pt]if[/size] anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.1John 2:1
It says IF not WHEN! Meaning its an exception not a norm because:
But if, in our desire and endeavor to be justified in Christ [to be declared righteous and put in right standing with God wholly and solely through Christ], we have shown ourselves sinners also and convicted of sin, does that make Christ a minister (a party and contributor) to our sin? Banish the thought! [Of course not!]
Gal. 2:17 Meaning if we seek the Advocacy of Christ, we wont hold on to sins!

4. 16 Do you not know that if you continually surrender yourselves to anyone to do his will, you are the slaves of him whom you obey, whether that be to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience which leads to righteousness (right doing and right standing with God)?
Roman 6:16 Meaning if you obey sin everyday (like your topic puts it) do not deceive yourself, you are a servant of sin and the wages to be received is death!!!

5 You cited the OT practices but remember that it is written:
Because the blood of bulls and goats is powerless to take sins away. Hebrews 10:4 hence your statement regarding this suggests that the sacrifice of Jesus was just as powerless!!!

6Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.
13 Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [and [a]faculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offer and yield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [and faculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness.
14 For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God’s favor and mercy].
15 What then [are we to conclude]? Shall we sin because we live not under Law but under God’s favor and mercy? Certainly not!
17 But thank God, though you were once slaves of sin, you have become obedient with all your heart to the standard of teaching in which you were instructed and to which you were committed.
18 And having been set free from sin, you have become the [b]servants of righteousness (of conformity to the divine will in thought, purpose, and action).
You are the servant of the one you obey,'everyday'.

The desire of Christ is that the Church be,"... in glorious splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such things [that she might be holy and faultless].Ephesians 5:28 This should be our focus!!!

Demmzy15:
Now does this change the fact that Jews engaged in early marriages. I've accepted the issue of Abraham, Isaac etc. But what of other Jews, what age did they get married? I pointed that out in my last post with some of them marrying early as far the middle ages which was thousands of years after Abraham and the rest.



Of course it's a valid point, commanded by Moses in which the God that is always the same(Hebrews 13:didn't object to.

In considering Truth, we go as far as the Word reveals hence if we cannot establish a claim therefrom, it should be shelved!
God remains the same, dispensations don't! Some of the practices then were allowed because:
... of the hardness (stubbornness and perversity) of your hearts Moses permitted you to dismiss and repudiate and divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been so [ordained]. Matthew 19:8 How many christians have claimed to be acting on Numbers 31:18 today? How many Israelites have claimed to be acting on Num 31:18 today?

Using David as an example, are you saying men of 70+ can't perform sex? I don't think so, even looking at the story critically David was near death. [b]Till this day we have men who have given birth at 92,94 and 96years. Go to Syria you can still find men of over 70years fighting. So I think your analysis about the age is wrong. [/font]

Well i've brought my own samples from the Bible; wish you could bring yours thence too!

The age of Mary definitely not part, like you said earlier. Some parts are dubious not all, so the Mary and Joseph part are right!

How do we verify the highlighted? Are there any sources apart from the Apocrypha?

Let's see what some scholars say about the "Apocryphal":

“Apocrypha is a plural word (singular: apocryphan) that originally denoted hidden or secret writings, to be read only by initiates into a given Christian group.”
The Meaning of the Dead Sea Scrolls By James VanderKam, Peter Flint chapter 8

“The term apocryphan signifies “that which is hidden” or “concealed”– some intimate secret shared only by the chosen few.”
Poetics of the Gnostic Universe: Narrative And Cosmology in the Apocryphon of John By Zlatko Plese page 7

"apocryphan- secret or hidden book, such as the Apocryphan of James (a.k.a. secret Book of James)."
John the Baptist: Prophet of Purity for a New Age By Catherine M. Murphy page 161

As you can see for yourself, not all parts of the apocryphal is spurious. Since when I've been reading about the apocryphal I've never come across any scholar who claimed the ages of Mary and Joseph is wrong or fabricated. In the Muslim hadiths, you can find many fabricated stories but it still contains truth in them. So therefore we can't totally condemn it. These are works of men, they are prone to faults. Remember that no one is perfect.



On matters about the faith, we can't trust the apocryphal. The both ages isn't about faith, but just a general knowledge, so we can count on it.

The link you snapped was embedded in the one I posted from the original websites hence I was more focused on it:https://carm.org/why-apocrypha-not-in-bible. I actually included the source just in case you desire to verify the truth of what was quoted.

For example, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm starts with:
The chief sources of information on the life of St. Joseph are the first chapters of our first and third Gospels they are practically also the only reliable sources; , for, whilst, on the holy patriarch's life, as on many other points connected with the Saviour's history which are left untouched by the canonical writings, the apocryphal literature is full of details, the non-admittance of these works into the Canon of the Sacred Books casts a strong suspicion upon their contents; and, even granted that some of the facts recorded by them may be founded on trustworthy traditions, it is in most instances next to impossible to discern and sift these particles of true history from the fancies with which they are associated. Among these apocryphal productions dealing more or less extensively with some episodes of St. Joseph's life may be noted the so-called "Gospel of James", the "Pseudo-Matthew", the "Gospel of the Nativity of the Virgin Mary", the "Story of Joseph the Carpenter", and the "Life of the Virgin and Death of Joseph".

Meaning the most reliable source is the gospels of Matthew and Luke! When it comes to matters of faith, we cannot enlist the contents of any source that bares damning errors/heresies simply because it agrees with us; what do you think?

Of the contents of these books as regards Mary's parents (Gospel of James), this was written:

The reference to Joachim/Imran is peculiar only to the Catholics who themselves got it from the non-canonical, literary works called the apocrypha; a website quoted them thus:

"We have no historical evidence, however, of any elements of their lives, including their names. Any stories about Mary’s father and mother come to us through legend and tradition.”(http://daily-bible-study-tips.com/Reader-Questions-Answered/Lineage-of-Mary.htm quoting from official catholic website

No wonder the jews rejected the apocryphal books;

I wont fail to notice this quote in your post:
“The term apocryphan signifies “that which is hidden” or “concealed”– some intimate secret shared only by the chosen few.”
Poetics of the [size=14pt]Gnostic[/size] Universe: Narrative And Cosmology in the Apocryphon of John By Zlatko Plese page 7

The highlighted were the brain behind some of the contaminated gospel that were NOT canonized (God will always preserve His Word). Gnostics and their antics were active at the time of the Apostles and the latter warned against them (Colossians, 1 John).

Hence shall we stay with the reliable sources then?

Demmzy15:
David alone can't be used as prove for this assertion of yours. "The first of God’s commands in the Bible concerns the propagation of the human species: ‘be fruitful and multiply’ (Genesis 9:7). Jews believed it was their duty to marry as early in life as possible.
For a woman, marriage plans could be made at the onset of puberty. For a man, 18 years was the recommended age. Any person who had passed the age of 20 without being married was not carrying out the will of God.
A man might postpone marriage in order to study the Torah, but only in very rare instances were people permitted to remain unmarried for life." http://www.womeninthebible.net/3.2.Major_Events.htm

Isaac was 40 years old when he married Rebecca; remember that this marriage was arranged when Abraham was alive meaning there was no unusual delay (Genesis 25:20) This refutes the highlighted! Joseph was 30 years old when he married; (Genesis 41:46). This is why for a discussion like this, it helps to keep to the Source; other websites etc could be generated by those who were biased.

You're a Christian not a Jew, so stop arguing about the customs and norms which is common among the Jewish people, it's very irrational.

The more reason why it's best to focus on matters that concern the NT dispensation as per Num 31:18. (I hope you bear this in mind)

Besides everyone is privileged to acquire knowledge! Besides, it's in cross examining the various speakers that we know who was biased and who was not.

Once again, consider: At age 70, David could not even feel heat let alone get married and have children; if we'll talk about those days then at least we should have references! Note that David came generations before Joseph! Moreover, would a man of 90+ be able to move from Bethlehem to Nazareth to Egypt etc?

It perhaps will aid your stand point if you could point out one or two obvious examples from the Bible (not Apocrypha) of a man that married one of such a tender age.

The apocrypha are useful for edification, but canonical in the sense that they are the rule for confirming matters of faith, no!

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a108.htm

Implication is that apocrypha are not part of the Bible and were a mixture of truth culled from the latter and traditions, the evidence of which were non-existent!



8. The Apocryphal books were placed in Bibles before the Council of Trent and after but were placed in a separate section because they were not of equal authority. The Apocrypha rightfully has some devotional purposes, but it is not inspired.

False Teachings
9. The Apocrypha contains a number of false teachings (see: Errors in the Apocrypha). (To check the following references, see http://www.newadvent.org/bible.)

The command to use magic (Tobit 6:5-7).
Forgiveness of sins by almsgiving (Tobit 4:11; 12:9).
Offering of money for the sins of the dead (2 Maccabees 12:43-45).
Not Prophetic
10. The Apocryphal books do not share many of the chararacteristics of the Canonical books: they are not prophetic, there is no supernatural confirmation of any of the apocryphal writers works, there is no predictive prophecy, there is no new Messianic truth revealed, they are not cited as authoritative by any prophetic book written after them, and they even acknowledge that there were no prophets in Israel at their time (cf. 1 Macc. 9:27; 14:41).
https://carm.org/why-apocrypha-not-in-bible

Meaning we cannot count on the apocrypha if we'll be objective in our considerations!