₦airaland Forum

oyatz:
I also believe this too.

As Bini became an Empire, it got exposed to and incorporated elements of other dialects, from Yoruba in the West to Igbo in the East and European languages in the South.

Exactly.
But not just as a result of empire alone. The grammar and sound inventory of Edo is actually said to be reduced compared to the Northern Edoid languages like Ososo or Weppa Wanno as a result of migratory denudation.

oyatz:
All these are not necessary sir.

Both Bini and Yoruba are related and spoke variants of the same Language in the distant past.

All Languages evolve and some dialects eventually transform into different languages if they remain isolated for too long or encounter and mix with other languages languages.

The emergence of the Oyo Empire (which encountered and mixed with many different peoples) made the Yoruba language to evolve into somewhat, different language from Edo and Southeast Yoruba dialects spoken between Ile-Ife to Ondo/Ekiti States

Yoruba language includes the Southeast Yoruba dialects. The main difference between Oyo dialects and their SE counterparts is mostly that the Central and SE dialects are more conservative and have a stronger archaic (original) inventory as compared to Oyo which has a simpler structure and is less conservative.
Edo on the other hand is a different language all together. You can't be putting Edo and SE Yoruba in the same bracket as if they were the same thing and then comparing both to Oyo.

Ologbo147:
That’s true Esan’s intonation and the word for some technical terms set her aside as a separate language. They speak “Bini” like a Portuguese speaking it, also the word for some technical terms is also different between Bini and Esan.

The word for blood in Bini is Esagien, the word for blood in Esan is Aranlen. I think the word for bone is different too. However the high rate of lexical similarity between the two languages gave these two languages uncommon level of intelligibility that other “lects” deemed as separate languages ordinarily would not have


It is what has been studied o, it is there o, that is why Okojie asserted that even among present Day Esan generation, speaking Bini may be difficult, but it is unnecessary for an Esan to learn it before understanding it. As you already asserted, lexical similarity is not the only determinant of a dialect

Read this part, I added it after. Can they (Esan and Benin) communicate smoothly apart from Igueben people?

scholes0:
But if Benins and Esans do actually understand 91% of one another IRL, then surely both languages and even identities should have since merged into one.

Ologbo147:
T
Should we now say Ekpon people are Igbo-Ika or should we say Orogun people are Igbos because they are bilinguals.

But you know Usen's case is unique compared to these examples. These ones learned Ika and Ndokwa respectively because of proximity. Usen people speak a Yoruba dialect because of both ancestry and proximity.
And that is why even though their history points to Ife, their dialect is closer to an eastern Yoruba dialect like Ikale or Idanre, and not a central dialect like Ife. Because the Eastern Yoruba and the Edos became their immediate neighbours over time, so they picked up both dialects.

Ologbo147:
at 91 percent, the lexical similarity is so high, such that Okojie asserted that an Esan man does not need to learn the Bini language before he understands it.

Many dialects do not get close to 91, Benin and Oza is 72%

While this may be true though, lexical similarity is just one factor that determines mutual comprehensibility. There are also things like language structure/grammar/arrangement, evolved divergent tones and inflections, speed of speech, use or lack thereof originally universal terms that are retained or dropped etc.

What is the real life experience of people (native speakers of these languages) trying to understand the other will be the real determinant of how much they can communicate. Linguistics for example say Igala and central Yoruba are share about 60% lexical similarity. in practical terms however, I doubt a Lagosian can even understand one third (35%) of Igala.
But if Benins and Esans do actually understand 91% of one another IRL, then surely both languages and even identities should have since merged into one.

Ologbo147:
Maybe that is the reality, it was never my central idea. I just wanted to reply to that man that said we are forcing ourselves on Esan when lexical similarity between Bini and Esan stands at 91%

Sure, they are al Edoid languages.

Ologbo147:
They don’t have right to call him that, there are bilingual clans in Every tribe, in ika, clans like Alilehan and Alisor are Bini groups originally that also picked up languages and culture of their host as a result are bilinguals.

Is it Esan, in Ekpon you have bilingual attributes, in Urhobo you have Orogun that speak both Kwale and Urhobo. Anyone that will do so is doing so out of ignorance.

Are we not in this Nigeria? Those who want to use it as agenda will surely use it. I still heard at least 3 Esans call Olumide "That Yoruba guy from Edo south" today alone and what I am saying is that it completely makes sense why they would refer to him as such.
If someones name is Shola Elawure or Abiodun Okpeseyi from Usen, is he a Yoruba or Benin man?

Ologbo147:
Ozalla is closer to Esan because she has irrevocably mixed with Esan over the years, what about the other owan dialects, Ozalla is a minute part of Owan and very close to Esan land.

Well, in truth the Owan dialects are actually more like a continuum. Some parts are closer to Esan, some parts like Warrake and Ivbiaro are closer to Yekhee and they understand Auchi more than they do their fellow 'Owans'.
Some like Otuo and Ikhin are their own thing entirely with plenty Yoruba loan words. Luleha is more central. But don't comletely discount that linguistic appraisal that the Edoid languages actually originated in the North and streamed downwards. Even Yoruboid is the same. The dialects closer to the Niger-Benue confluence are older than the ones in the interior south west.

Ologbo147:
you are an alternate moniker, if they have a superior argument it will be obvious, it is because many of these their interpretations are insanely stupid. You just need to google Etsako, Esan, Obaseki and so on the Edo meanings will come out for you, they probably must have seen it and still chose to go on with thier own interpretations. That is why that one is saying we Binis are imposing our selfs on other Edo groups like Esan etc


Bini and Esan for example share 91 percent lexical similarity. Many dialects do not share that high.

Do you know there is a very popular linguistic theory that the Northern Edoid languages are actually the ones closer to proto Edo than Benin (Edo language) and not the other way round? They are actually the more conservative Edoid languages compared to Benin. Some Ora dialects like that of Ozalla are closer to Esan than Esan is to Benin.

Ologbo147:
they greet Delauhe, it has never been in contention they came from yorubaland, but what beats me is how they end up with one of these eastern Yoruba dialects rather than that of Ife.

Besides we are not about Ogbebor, we are about Obazuaye

How can his Obazuaye, Ize and Obasohan side which is maternal be more important than his Erha (Ogbebor)º side though?
If some Edo people call him a Yoruba person , they wouldn't be completely wrong.

On the meaning of certain Benin chieftaincies/aristocratic terms and titles i.e (Obazuaye, Ologbosere, Osodi, Esogban etc) being originally Yoruba etymologically, trust me, I know what I am talking about, but even if we argue til tomorrow, u no go gree, lol, but its okay. Let's just keep it at that.

Ologbo147:
And Usen as a town has come a long way in Edo history, Ogbebor’usen is not a family of yesterday, besides his mother is not from Usen, the Mother is the one with the link to Obazuaye

Yes it has come a long way in Edo historically no one is disputing that, but as you can also see, their Ife links are very obvious for everyone to see. All his Ogbebor n'Usen family side have Yoruba names. Ogbebor left Usen for Benin with the sanction of Olu Awure in 1819. He prospered and became a big family there (Infact, one of the biggest and most influential in Benin) and got chieftaincy from Oba. Anyways, their family is an example of one of those family clans in Benin that bridge both sides. I won't be surprised if they greet Lauhe.

Ologbo147:
that is not it, Obazuaye in Benin means the Oba gives life or he is the harbinger of life

lol, you are saying the same thing as I am. It is an Edo chieftaincy today but has obtained a slightly unique connotation in Edo parlance. Just like Kpataki and the Osodin, another ibiwe chief.

At any rate, Olumide is from Usen originally.

Ologbo147:
Those are names of families he descended from,

Obasohan is the name of a big chief in Benin, the same with ize iyamu and Bazuaye,

Obasohan- Obasohan means the oba is greater than fear

Obazuaye means the Oba has the capacity to bring life

Obazuaye of Ibiwe class actually comes from the Yoruba phrase 'Oba ju aye' - The king is more than the world'. In other words, the Oba choses the pleasure anyone enjoys in this life.

What sort of lying propaganda is this? LOL
Is that what Igboho said? He never said anything like what this blogger put in his fake ass fable called report.

He didn't even mention Igbo once except where he mentioned the three major tribes in Nigeria, and that was it..

Konquest:
That's another insightful historical perspective from you.

What I read about the Gonja is that the name is a corruption or mispronunciation of the Hausa name for red kolanuts (which is Goron ja in Hausa). Goro (Gworo) is "kolanut" in Hausa, while "Ja" is red in Hausa.

[b]It's just like the name Abuja which means "Abubakar Ja" or literally light reddish-skinned Abubakar. Abuja was named after the Fulani guy called Abubakar Ja who led a raid of Fulah jihadists into the Gbagyi region, [/b]but history says the Gbagyis were never fully conquered but lost some of their folks due to captivity and slave raidings.

Bro this is wrong again, lol.
Muhamman Makau was the last Hausa (Haabe) Emir of Zazzau (Zaria) before it was conquered by the Fulani (Fulbe) under one Mallam Musa which ushered the new dynasty which his descendants continue to rule in Zaria till today as Fulani emirs. After the defeat of Makau in 1804, he was forced to flee southwards into Gbagyi land with many of his followers. It was there that he tried to set up a mirror kingdom of his kingdom which he had now lost to the Fulbes. He settled at Zuba, and from there he started attacking some of the Gbagyi, Koro and Nupe villages. It was in one of these raids on Lapai (A Nupe town now in Niger state) that he met his waterloo and was killed at the gates of Lapai.

When he died, his younger brother, son of Ishiaku Jatau, popularly nicknamed Abu-Ja (Abu the red) left Zuba and founded a new village which he began walling around 1829. It was this new village that became Abuja. That town he built is now the well known city of Suleja in Niger state. The current Abuja capital city is not the Abuja build by the exiled Hausas of Zaria. The original Abuja renamed itself to Suleja after the emir ruling there in 1975 when the federal capital was moved from Lagos (Suleiman Barau). The new capital city was to take their original name.

Anyways, the person known as Abu the Red was actually an HAUSA person not Fulani. And neither did he lead a raid of Jihadists upon the Gbagyi.

Konquest:
Aha! I do understand.

It's just like saying all Oyo are Yoruba but NOT all Yoruba are Oyo! Brilliant.

Touché

Konquest:
That's an impressive feedback.

Indeed the Asante Empire conquerred the GUAN (also called Gonja). The name Gonja is actually a Hausa-derived name meaning "Goron ja" or "red kolanut"... Which is one of the commodities that the Guan traders engaged in selling and there was a trade linkage with the Hausaland and Northern Ghana.


Thanks again for shedding more light on the Guan group who I had always known by the more popular name of Gonja.

Also on the bolded parts, the Guan are not 100 = Gonja, it isn't a 1 to 1 identification. The Gonja are a subset of the larger Guan people. They just happen to be the biggest and most popular subset. You can't call Guang people Gonja, the Guan are found in ALL the regions of Ghana; Asante, Volta, Brong, Ahafo, North, Eastern E.tc as aborigines (which is testament to their ancient status as first comers) and the Gonja are just a single group of Guans found in a particular/specific region of the country. All Gonja are Guan but not all Guans are Gonja, there is still Awutu, Logba, Avatime, Larteh, Cerepong, Etc I hope you understand?

Konquest:
That's an impressive feedback.

Indeed the Asante Empire conquerred the GUAN (also called Gonja). The name Gonja is actually a Hausa-derived name meaning "Goron ja" or "red kolanut"... Which is one of the commodities that the Guan traders engaged in selling and there was a trade linkage with the Hausaland and Northern Ghana.
Thanks again for shedding more light on the Guan group who I had always known by the more popular name of Gonja.

Not quite true.
The word Gonja is a mispronunciation of what the Gonja call themselves , The Gbanja of Gbanya. Yes, Kolanut trade settled upon this region for much of the West African middle ages and that is why the kind of kola originally gotten from there (2 lobed Kola) is still called Obi Gbanja by the Yoruba (Who also participated in this criss-cross West African trade) till today. Obi Gbanja and Obi Abata, the two popular Kolanut types.

Hausa would most often mispronounce the "Gb" phoneme which they lack as [Gw] not as [Go]. Case in point, the Hausa call the Gbari/Gbagyi people 'Gwari', not 'Gari''. In the same line, [Kp] becomes [Kw] e.g Akpoto becomes Kwoto. (Egbira Akpoto = Ebira Kwoto in Hausa) The Yoruba word 'Pana-pana' (pronounced; Kpana -Kpana) becomes Kwana-Kwana. Etc. An Hausa mispronunciation would have called them Gwanja and not Gonja.

Gonja is not a derivation of an Hausa word, although I wouldn't be surprised if some gonja people themselves have accepted this false premise. Many Gonjas speak Hausa already.

Konquest:
How's it going @Scholes0?

I actually read from a couple of sources on the day I landed on this thread directly from the Google first page that the Akan (which is the collective name for several groups of people such as the Asante, Fante, Akuapem, Nzima, etc) are the first of all the modern-Ghana groups to arrive and that is why the "KAN" in AKAN means FIRST. So, I thought the Kan root is quite similar to OKAN meaning ONE or FIRST in Yoruba language. The Akan and the Yoruba ethnicities belong to the same Kwa language group.

I'll look up the information you gave here regardless and I appreciate your perspective because it's always good to fact-check all information we come across online and offline.

Have a great year ahead!


UPDATE:
Indeed, I've studiously checked a number of sources online and the GUAN people (who are a minority group in Ghana) are considered the first group to settle in modern Ghana just like you said. On the other hand, the root word "Kan" is derived from the Twi-Akan dialect of the Akan which means FIRST.

Dankwa (Danquah) I think was the first Akan man to espouse and add an actual academic touch to the 'first' or 'foremost' etymology for the word Akan, which previously has just been folk etymology. The Akan are the speakers of the languages based majorly on and around the Tano river, they share certain cultural similarities to varied degrees. They can be majorly subdivided into the Akan proper mostly based in Ghana and the Bia cluster mostly based in Ivory Coast around the Bia river.The Bia only share limited similarities with the Akan proper.

The Gonja people of central and northern Ghana who have ben heavily influenced by Islamic sahelian cultures such as Manding and Hausa are actually Guan. The Guan people still have connections with the Akan (both are still Tano languages). And yes, the number 1 is actually Okun, or Akon or Akan or a variant of it in all these languages.

Ahanta - Okun
Jwira-pepesa - Ko
Larteh (Guan) - Kon
Seehwi - Kun
Anyin (CIV) - Ekun
Gonja - Akon
Asante (Twi) - 1 (Baako), 1st (kan)

Etc Etc.

Konquest:
True that.

Funnily I found out than Akan is derived from Kan which means FIRST (i.e., the first group of folks to arrive in modern Ghana). Okan is means ONE in Yoruba language.

AKWABA means "welcome" in Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire and EKAABO means "welcome" in Yoruba as well. The similarity is uncanny but then Yoruba descendants in the Ga region did have trade interactions with the Akan folks (Asante, Fante, Akwuapim, etc) right from centuries back.

Naah, this is wrong. The Akans are not the first group of people in modern Ghana, the Guans are.

CONGRATULATIONS NIGERIA.!!
We did it...

Udo and Usen are very ancient communities that are of an Independent origin.

They deserve to have independent status.

Also in Yoruba

God - Orisha
Thunder - Apaara
Stone - Oko
Water - Omi
Mother - Iye
Father - Ọba
Sun - Orunrun
Moon - Oshu
Head - Eriwo (Eri)
Rain - Eji
Light - Itanna
Lord - Olu
Rock - Ọta
Human - Ọni
House - Ile
Man - Ọkonrin
Woman - Obinrin
Goat - Ikeregbe
Cockerel - Akuko

Guyman01:
He is Fulani and his jurisdiction is Bida, Nupes in Pategi and Lafiagi don't recognise him, they used the influence of Sokoto to make him head of Niger State traditional council and also put Pategi in Kwara State during states creation by the military dominated by Yorubas and made the indigenous Etsu kingdom a minority

So shouldn't the Nupechizhi of Patigi count themselves lucky then in that case?
Would they have preferred to be under the Etsu Bida in Niger state rather?

Unperturbedpota:
Full Afrikaans 8s the internationally recognised language for Africa, idiot

Open yellow teeth say "Afrikaans 8s the internationally recognised language for Africa"
So, it is no longer the language of the Zulus? Ode Olodo.

Unperturbedpota:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

This tribe and propaganda!!!!

No be this same USA I dey?. Funny thing is you see them call the Igbos chest beaters but these guys always look for anything any anyOne says about Yoruba and are quick to popularize it even when the person is just trolling or totally insignificant 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Do you know how many foreign languages and cultures are propagated in tech daily ? Afrikaans is the number one recognized language from African continent globally yet you don't see the Zulus dancing that the white man has recodnized them 🤣🤣

I am sure the Nairaland tribe chiefs will be dancing to this mediocre news. This nigga using you all to troll

There is no where Yoruba is recodnized specifically. I live in the US and have family in the UK .

The UK metro police started employing Yoruba speakers solely for the number of crimes commited by Yoruba speaking people in the UK so they wanted to be able to intercept and decode the calls . Because these criminals use yoruba only to speak on the phone in texts and in emails so the UK metro police had to find a way to intercept this. But here they are dancing as if it's a positive reason they are employed😂😂😂😂

Don't believe me, contact the UK metropolice help desk ! This info is available to the public. Yorubas are profiled in the UK as the number 1 tribe that commits all cyber crime from Nigeria.
Reno is just exposing it all, we all know. At one point it was the Jamaicans. Go to Peckham and Kent na Yoruba gangs full there 🤣🤣

Same way Italia police employ people who speak Esan in Palermo doesnt make my mum's people the main culture in Italy

Which Nigerian here in America won't tell yoú the truth that the Yoruba run gangs here?. They steal cars everyday and ship to Nigeria, na their work ! Plus Account hacking, Credit card fraud , identify theft that's what they do here in America mostly . They work with the Asians and are masters of all manner of tax frauds and such. The American police whenever they arrest Nigerian involved in fraud assume 100% you are yoruba . Facts only

OLODO
So Afrikaans is now the Language of Zulus. Illiterates everywhere on this forum.

Okada691:
understand that the Bini local government in Edo state are the biggest in the state both rural and urban. All available statistics shows that Orhiowmon is about 3 times the size of Igueben numerically and Orhiowmon as a local government is at most 17 ika, therefore the Bini part of Orhiowmon are at the least two and a half times the size of igueben local government. Mind you Orhiowmon is a totally rural local government.

Oredo is hundred percent Bini,

Egor is hundred percent Bini.

Uhuwonde is 95 percent Bini

Ovia south west is 75 % Bini. The Bini part of this lga will just be about the same size with Esan south east



Ovia north east is 90 percent Bini. The capital Okada is a Bini town and no Esan town except Ekpoma and Uromi is numerically stronger than it. Okada was estimated to be 78 thousand inhabitants in 2011, it is about 100,000 or more today roughly being the same size with Irrua town in Esan central local government. In that Esan central local government, you have just irrua and Ewu. Ewu will just be half the size of irrua.

But in Ovia north east, you also have Ekiadolor which is also close to the population of Okada and Other hundreds of Bini communities. Local government are not all the same size bro. They are like states,

The rural Bini will just be about the same size numerically with the entire Esan land or more not counting the Binis now who are not residents in their communities but in Benin City

Ikpoba Okha is also 95 percent Bini,there are ten wards in ikpoba okha, and its only in ologbo ward that you can find Ijaw and itsekiri communities alongside with the Bini communities there.

Is this Ologbo wth a different account?

Ebubu3:
It’s funny how you fraudulently lie and claim Ijaw indigenouship in many states across Nigeria but fight against Igbo claims of Igbo indigenouship in many States across Nigeria

I was starting to trust your opinion but now see through your two-face.

Which two face are you talking about? Go back to the other thread, I mistook another group (Agbo) with the Isobo that was being discussed. Besides, in this particular thread, the argument is not about the presence of Ijaws in Edo state but rather their population size.

RedboneSmith:
I am almost convinced it is Osopong that you're mistaking for Isobo.

Isobo language or dialect (I really don't care which it is called) is as incomprehensible to the central Igbo speaker as Ezza, Ikwo, Izhi and Mgbo is incomprehensible to the central Ìgbò speaker.

An Ikwo person and an Isobo person can communicate with minimal difficulties. In fact, their traditions state that they are an extension of Ikwo across the Enyim River (i.e., Cross River). Isobo language is demonstrably part of the Abakaliki linguistic cluster within the Igbo linguistic family.

Nobody argues about this connection. Not even the Isobo themselves. Like I said, you're probably confusing them with Osopong people.

Actually it is the Agbo people I was confusing them with, not the Osopong, but the Osopong on the West bank of the cross have similar morphology too but are Mbembe, you are right.

RedboneSmith:
Did you say slight influence?

The entire language is very clearly the same Ìgbò variant as that spoken by the Ezza-Ikwo-Izhi. The entire language. Of course with influence from Upper Cross River languages.

Isobo are not Mbembe. I don't know where you got that from. They have a Facebook page where they share elements of their language and culture from time to time. And the ones among them that I have interacted with identify with the larger Ìgbò family.

Most of their village wards have clearly cross-river like sounding Usomotong-esque names.. Their so called dialect is barely comprehensible to an average Igbo speaker if at all. Even to many 'Ebonyians'. So yes, it is indeed lateral acculturation.

Ebubu3:
so you’re saying Ebonyi and Upper cross river groups have inter-twined history and married together and that’s why Ebonyi Igbo is UNLIKE central igbo?

Yes, to a good degree.
Read Adiele Afigbo's work circa 1987 titled "The Igbos and their neighbours" You will understand why the Isobo are not igbo but Mbembe that were pushed to the left bank of the cross river.