Oga Akure was never Ijesha what are you saying sef.

Ijesha should get their lands taken by the Ibadans in Iresi, Igbajo, Ada ad the rest back and leave the Ekiti kingdom of Akure alone.

Will address to the Other BS in the write up later.
Some points i'll address:

- Yoruba is a fairly recent word? - LOL . Nothing could be more wrong.
- It was a word coined by Ajayi crowther - Ridiculous.
- WTH is Edekiri people? Edekiri is a branch of the Yoruboid languages, not a people.
- Both the origins of the words Eko/Ereko/Oko and Iduganran are again, 110% Yoruba. Infact Oko/Ereko.Eko as a word had been in Use in Lagos before some Bini migrants ventured towards that part of the world.
- Oba Akiolu and all lagos kings since the time of Ologun Kutere are paternally Ijesha and maternally Awori.. The Benin genetic link is from their maternal great grandmother (matriarch) who was Awori paternally and Bini maternally (The bini mother of Ado).

What many don't now is that the ruling dynasty of Lagos is not that of Ashipa but that of Alaagba, an Ijesha Babalawo and Politician. Ologun Kutere was the product of the marriage between Erelu Kuti who was daughter to Oba Ado and sister to Gabaro, and Alaagba (short for ' Alagbigba'), an Ijesha traditional adviser to Oba Akinsemoyin. He was the successor to the throne through a matrilineal line and the beginning of the Lagos dynastic switch.

LMAO\
The way people fabricate history in Nigeria these days is actually VERY alarming... Like.. what is this bullcrap?

First and foremst, Etí Ọsà is a 110% Yoruba word not a prtially Yoruba word.

2 - Eti means Fringe or Ear. In this particular geographical context, it means edge or bank.

3 - Osa is the Lagoon in the Yoruba language, and in this particular case, the specific one around Lagos.

4- The etymological break down of Eti Ọsa is absolutely Yoruba, not even partially... If you want to know people that are lying, just watch carefully how they try to do so by inserting 50% truth into their carefully orchestrated lies to give the FABU FABRICATED part some legitimacy. He was absolutely right when he said Eti is a fully Yoruba word, but so is Ọsa.

5- Edo does not, and has never had two words for Lagoons/large body of water. It has always been Okun which is a word that arguably also got transferred/transported into the Edo lexicon from the Yoruba language itself. Ọsa (to mean a lagoon) does not even exist in the Edo language lexicon. On the other hand, that same word is present even in the earliest written version of a Yoruba dictionary.

You think you can just wake up one morning and fabricaate new non existent words and plug them into a language? Do these pseudo historians think we are all !diots?

Honestly, make all of una just rest on Lagos matter. It is getting ridiculous at this point.

Fig 1. Yoruba language dictionary (1843) - 1 Osa with 1 meaning
Fig 2. Bini/Edo language dictionary (1937) - 3 Osa with 3 meanings , none of which is even remotely connected with water.

Igbos that are very well known to relocate enmasse to the South east during times for census They will go and boost population in their villages, starving Lagos of population related federal allocation by so doing- and then return en masse after counting is done to stress Lagos infrastructure.

The problem with Nigerian internet these days is that it is filled with people who were toddlers in 2006 census and their own fathers were probably teenagers in 1991.

Mercy2006:
Personally, I would like to know how Gbadebo lost his polling unit because there was no voters suppression and intimidation there.
Neither was ballot snatching.
Does it mean he is not as popular among his people as people were making him out to be?

He wasn't/isn't.

He wanted to ride a peter obi lagos victory wave (which by th way was less than 10 thousand votes ), but his political enemies found his weak spot. He also went on a Lagos nativist campaign and ostracized Yorubas whose immediate origins were not from Lagos Island.... and his popularity took an unrecoverable dip. He was pretty much done for.

UGBE634:
Slightly where, Isoko itself is times two the size of Itsekiri, according to the 1952 census, Itsekiri was about 34 thousand, while Isoko on the other hand was about 74,000 thousand, infact there is no Edoid group that is not bigger than Itsekiri save for Uneme. That same year Owan/Ora was about 48 thousand,

The Itsekiri population consolidated in the years afterwards.
And I said "In their kingdom", meaning that I am only referring to the populations of any of those afore metioned ethnicities within the warri kingdom

Kcdojoto:
Many people did not come out to vote, especially non yorubas.
Congratulations to him

And yet, the total number of voters is higher than the presidential figures

LP can't even get a majority in Anambra?

Andrew's Liver Salt

samuk:


Let me break it down for you.

There was once a western region in Nigeria which comprises the following gladiators.

1. Oba of Benin with centuries old documented history by the Europeans

2. The Alaafin of Oyo which the British met on ground as king of yoruba people in 1824.

3. The Ooni which the yoruba people regarded as their spiritual leader.

Unification of the region:

The people of this former western region were continously at way with each other until the British brought law and order in order to colonised the country.

A story was concocted to unite these people under one umbrella. Ife was chosen to be the epicentre of a migration myth. The Oba of Benin contributed his centuries old history which Ife lacked and in return, he inherit or became the heir to Oduduwa fictitious dynasty. The Alaafin became second heir to the dynasty while Ooni whose domain was already chosen as the migration Centre got the least position of chief priest or spiritual leader.

This plot unravel when Awolowo introduced tribalism into this arrangements by helping to elevate the Ooni above his assigned position. The Oba of Benin (Akenzua) worked out of the arrangements in protest and demanded for his own mid West Region, which he got in 1963. The Alaafin and the Ooni were left in the western region to fight it out amongst themselves.

The oba if Benin left with his entitled, heir to Oduduwa dynasty intact, the Alaafin seems to have gotten the shot end of the stick.

Wrong. The people of Yorubaland were not CONTINIOUSLY at war. The decline of Oyo in the 19th century led to a huge power vacuum that various Yoruba kingdoms were jostling to replace, amongst them; ibadan, Ijaye, Abeokuta, Owu and the rest which were the aspiring new powers, and that was the period of incessant warfare. Before then, there wasn't any more frequency of warfare amongst the people than in anywhere else or among any other group of people in the general southeastern west African region they were situated in.

Ife was never chosen as the epicentre of any migration myth. There were actually dynastic migrations of rulers and in some cases commoners from Ife of old. You think it is easy to cook a non existent chapter into the history of Millions including their Orikis just like that?

Let me tell you, before there was anything called 'Western region', Otu Ife had always occupied a sacred place in Yoruba historiography.

The people of the Benue valley share something similar based in the old confederation of Kororofa based in Wukari, although not 100% the same with the seeming Ife-Yorubaland equivalent. Some northern Igbos of the Anambra valley had it with Nri, and so many Edoid groups have it with Igodomigodo or Benin. It is't exactly a new thing in West Africa or even the world. Maybe those were cooked up too.

samuk:


He is right, UGBE634 already presented a screen shot of Benin dictionary said to have been written in 1930s, it's there, scroll backwards to see it.

The BA in the dictionary is different from the OBA.

I may not fully understand Edo but I still know some things.

RedboneSmith:


Yea, I remember arguing with him once about the origin and etymology of 'Idu'. He disagreed very strongly with my position, which I understand. All things put together he is more pragmatic and objective than most other Benin people on here.

Another pragmatic Benin nairalander, who no longer uses this platform was bokohalal.

I saw the Idu thread. Wasn't it the one talking about Idumu/Idumwun (A community of people argument)?

I remember him too.
Those were old timers when culture section used to pop.

samuk:


There was nothing like Oduduwa in Benin history pre-1897 and Oba Eresonyen predates 1897. Alot was changed in Benin history to accommodate the new Oduduwa polical history after 1897. Why was it ague Oghene in the past according to you and then changed to ugie Oduduwa after 1897?

Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan didn't appear in Benin history pre-1896. There is no where in Benin history those names existed before 1897.

Lmao... I am looking forward the next story that you will spin to explain away the Oduduwa mask used in the Oduduwa ritual that was part of the commemorative art carted away from Benin after the expedition.

RedboneSmith:


Bloody nose?

The way you people claim 'victory' is very funny. TAO will trash you people with concrete peer-reviewed scholarly submissions. You people will claim you gave her a bloody nose, even when the interaction in which she dragged all of you like small Tiger gen is there for everyone to see.

I came on to demonstrate that Ryder was misquoted by one of you. I did that. I put all the evidence out. And then stepped back, because I have no interest in the broader discussion going on here. You came and claimed I was given a bloody nose. By who? How? Gregyboy used to do this a lot with me too, which was really weird, because that boy has never made one coherent point all the time I have known him here.

One wonders if this is a peculiar Benin trait - to claim phantom victories.

Is that how your empire was also built - on the back of phantom victories? One would hope not.

Like, I just tire.

To be fair though, Ugbe634 has been more pragmatic that the rest of these ones just doing bandwagon activism.

Thebadpolitican:



The title oba is a short form it is called omo no oba, the white people shortened it, no elderly one in benin would call the Oba of benin oba without putting omo no' ba which means ( the child that shines for the edo people) that is the title are not just oba which is a short form

Shey you dey whine me ni?
What is all these pseudo-history flying around here?

AutomaticMotors:


That boy na complete i.diot! I swear I can't even hide my disgust ... I just can't!!!

As e dey pain you... e dey sweet me.

samuk:


I believe the annual Oduduwa celebration actually started with the current oba few years ago. I can't remember his father Erediawa 2 celebrating it annually. I also believe the other praise name came in during Erediawa or slightly earlier. None of these existed during Oba Ovonramwen.

Sam, It is not new o.

Oduduwa festival has always been a part of a series of festivities in Benin known as the Ague-Oghene. which was meant to celebrate the Oba's paternal ancestors. The only difference was that back then it was all compartmentalized and condensed together.
It is pre 1897.

Oba Eresonyen de-compartmentalized it and started celebrating Ugie Oduduwa separetely.

UGBE634:
You can interprete it Osamede any of those ways it would make absolute sense, it means the same thing with Osemwende

Yeah, the Ede in Omosede and Osamede are from the "Ede" meaning crown in Edo not from the one of falling.

That [EDE] word is part of the vocab that flowed with dynastic change in early Benin, from its form in Yoruba [ADE] meaning crown.

samuk:


That was added lately, also the annual celebration of Oduduwa by the palace is also new. Benin have two historical timeline, pre-1897 authentic history and post-1897 polical history that puts the oba of Benin at the heart and centre of yoruba monarchs.

Don't forget that the most important people in yoruba land are Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Oba of Benin as first heir, the Alaafin of Oyo as second heir and the Ooni as the spiritual leader or chief priest.

What we have been focusing on here is the authentic history not the political arrangements.

When you say it is new, How 'new' do you consider to be too new to be discarded?
I want to know your time frame.

UGBE634:
in some quarters, it was strictly Ogiso Igodo, the Oba seem to have been the palace addition to it

Omo, it is VERY VERY hard to see a Benin man who just say things as they are.
You see all these ones arguing here? They are all fonts and have an irrational fear of admitting the Yoruba links of the current dynasty. Maybe they think Edo people will be Yorubanized if they do or somethting.

I know the Edos and some other groups might have felt marginalized in the old western region, and yes I admit what sociologists term "The tyranny of the Majority that happened between the Yoruba and the smaller groups that later broke out" due to certain perceived injustices, (and these acts happened in the Northern, Eastern and Western regions) but that is not an excuse to distort hundreds upon hundreds of years of sacred history.

I mean, the act just reeks.

UGBE634:
Literally it means my God does not fall. What it can translate to mean to make sense is my God does not fail

According to an Edo website, it means
God creates the Crown (Ede)
https://edoaffairs.com/benin-names-meaning/

If Osamede means what you say it means, what does Omosede mean?

Samuk what is the meaning of Ovbi Adimila which is a prominent praise epithet of the Omonoba?

UGBE634

What is the meaning of the Benin name Osamede?

We know the words that Yoruba and Edo share from antiquity at the urheimat of Volta-Congo, and subsequently YEAI, no one is arguing those ones.
Words like:

Unu/Enu - Mouth
Akuko/Okhokho - Fowl
Oka - Grain/Millet/Corn
Omo - Child

No one argue those ones. People who are really into linguistics know which is which.

But you see the likes of our Oba (King), Ade/Ede (crown), Olori (Queen consort), Akete (Throne) and the likes......
Their origin in 'Yorubaland' is NEVER in doubt.

Efewestern:


Ooni, Awujale, Alake, Alafin, Olubadan, Oluwo, Olu, etc are not the yoruboid word for king, they are title of each sovereign rulers. I can't give a breakdown of these titles but I'm very sure they mean different thing.

The closest the Yorubas have to Oba is "Baale," which by the way is a low ranking title for a tiny community heads.

It is an established fact that Ogie is an Edoid word for King. Regardless of what some are trying to spin, Ogie means king and not Duke. Now, in Yoruboid, aside Oba, there is no other Yoruba word for King. Olu isn't king. Olu means Lord. Ooni , Alaffin are titles. Baale isn't also close. This leaves us with only OBA, unless you want to convince me that Yoruboid had no word for king.

Also, it makes no sense for Edoid to call King Ogie and Oba. Either one is foreign or the other just mean a different thing entirely.

Words written in Gold.

UGBE634:
it Means Jesus the KING

Thanks.

samuk:


20 years from now future Edo will find it difficult to defend these four titles as being of Edo origin.

They are actually 8 (4 pairs of 2), not 4.

UGBE634:
Bro that is not enough, they seem to be natives or so that is what our oral account state,none of them have origin from Yoruba land.

These four Oliha, Edohen, Eholor nire, Ero, these four are the first four Uzamas, Edion nene, that it was gotten externally is highly unlikely. It contradicts our tradition. When an Edo (H) word enters yoruba lexicon, I believe it would still be H to F too.

The Uzama as traditional Edion in Igodomigodo existed.
Infact Edion have always been a feature of Edo society from the dawn of time. They are the oldese structured institutions, even before the Ogie-iso which were said to be non hereditary.

What we are exploring right now are the etymologies of the titles of the 4 pairs that are associated with the coming of Oranmiyan into what would later become Benin.

Efewestern:


Ogie is not Duke bro. Ogie is king. There's no way you want to twist this hard fact. Quote me anywhere. Ogie means KING.

All name that has Oba attached to it are traced to Bini. No other Edoid group bears any Oba title. They all make use of Ogie. So why should we believe that Oba is the rightful word for King instead of the well accepted Ogie?

Oba of Uvwie 😂

This we already know.
Not only on the Yoruboid side, but also on the Benin side (But for some reason the truth is too hard to admit for many)

Is it not the same Itsekiris that praise the Olu with the Oriki/Akpuja: "Oba Omi ju Oba Oke"... The King of the waters is greater than the King on Land.
Those who know these things know.

Let me tell those guys that once you accept truth, I swear to god your mind will be at rest. You will feel 50 pounds lighter as if a heavy load has been lifted from your chest.

samuk:


The story is that Oba of Benin is from Ife. If the story is true, these various titles should have existed in Ife specifically, these guys shouldn't be allowed to give examples from other areas of yoruba land that was influenced by Benin for centuries.

If the argument is that Benin is an offshoot of Ife, then there have to be similarities in ghe traditional institutions, but there are none.

You, your own position is not even reconcilable with both your Benin brothers here and the Yorubas.
Your position should be thrown into the dustbin but your brothers will not tell you.

UGBE634:
you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

Bros, When a Benin person says Ijesu n'Ogie, what does it mean?

Does it mean Jesus is a smaller duke?

UGBE634:
stop attributing titles you are not sure of their origin to yorubaland. Asoron to Eson is so laughable, how sure are you it is not the other way round. Edohen and Odofin does not look alike, the family will actually laugh at you for such theories you postulate here,

It might not look very alike on the surface level, but if you know the rules of thumb of how Yoruba lexical articles mutate when they enter the Edo language, you will understand better. For example F in Yoruba many atimes changes to [H] in Edo. Words that begin with A in Yoruba often becomes [E] in Edo. Words that have a rhotic [R] in Yoruba, the R vanishes in Edo... Etc.

AreaFada2:

Ah! Mr Fifth columnist is here.

You just confirmed what we all already knew. These rulers began as housekeeper, priest, baron or speaker.
Is there any serious student of history who doesn't know these meanings? You talk as if Yoruba is some kind of Sumerian cuneiform or Egyptian hieroglyphic language.

You are still reeling out mythical figures that cannot be proven to have existed as evidence of Oba?

Oga you aren't saying anything. How am I a 5th columnist? lol Fifth columnist to what people Hhahaha.
You didn't even answer the question. Well, I will take it you don't speak Yoruba.

Take Sango as third king of Oyo for example, how reasonable is the timeline and the story? I have read it in many books and saw films on it. No logic at all.

In Benin, we had Oba-godo in Igodomigodo. as an Ogiso. Ogiso meant not god literally from the sky but one heavenly ordained. How could someone whose childhood, parents, family and house and quarter in Benin were known be directly from the sky? It was about divine ordination.

But you still parade mythical figures as evidence of real kingly Obas. Lol.

Obalufon, Sango, Obameri, etc are not mythical figures. AND EVEN IF THEY WERE, you are still missing the point.
The point is the existence of the terminology in the Yoruba lexicon for as far back as anyone can remember. I hope you will get it now, and if not... oh well.

So you had OGIE-ISO OBA-GODO. lol wonderful.
By the way, the earliest written accounts of Benin mentions no Obagodo. Even the earlier written accounts of Benin's history by a native Benin that mentions anything along those lines only mentions an IGUDU/IGODO not OBA-GODO

By the way, I am also familiar with Ifa corpus. I knew the story of Eji Ogbe (Oba Odu) in particular as a kid already.

Very nice, make sure you teach your Edo comrades so that they can also teach other Edo.

Europeans have various names for prime minister: Bundeskanzler, Kanzler, Taoiseach, First Minister, Prime Minister, etc. All don't literally mean Prime minister but became regarded as such because all are heads of government. But all have histories about their genesis and evolution. So king came to be known by various names. Even if not literally but all now mean or imply king in that dialect/culture.

How is a name for the same position in different languages the same as regional identifiers for OBAS in different Yoruba Kingdoms?
You are trying too hard and your examples are not 'exampling'. Oba in Atakpame Togo is the same as Oba in Ijebu Ode because they all speak the same language.