AlBaqir:


# Sometimes you let your hatred and emotions take over your senses and devour you.

For the record, I never smuggle homosexuals into the Qur'an. Qur'an says, "men with no desire for women". This is widely open to interpretations.

Second, the hadith in sahih Bukhari clearly and clearly expose effeminates in the houses of sahabah (i.e Muslim community).

So, there is no running away or denying this.


How were they treated those era?

Hatred and emotions?! Look for another talk abeg!

Effeminate men does not mean homosexuals, and I don't know what interpretation you seek, when it is categorically stated in the same Qur'an that homosexuality is a sin which led to the destruction of the people of Lut (as)! If an effeminate desires no sexual relationship with women, that means he is impotent! This does not excuse the act of homosexuals in anyway!

So what interpretation are you looking for again for the verse?!

Empiree:
I have not even talked about punishment. You have largely agreed it is wrong. All this and that excuses are just a way of sympathizing with them. Quran did not specify punishment for them. But this crime falls under "fasad". Zina is haram. Pure and simple.


Difficulty trying to find them guilty is another case entirely. I am not against process like rehab for homos instead of death penalty outright. Homo is simply wrong. If scientific discovery "proves" homosexual to be "genetic disorder" in an attempt to make people rationalize with them, this goes against fundamental principles of religions. Therefore, it must be rejected. We know scientists are full of atheists. They would therefore try their utmost best to force this sh!t down out throat. How many of them gave birth?. None. I am not talking about adoption. It was someone who gave birth to those adopted children.

As for tintingz irrational sympathy and excuses that Homosexuals are mostly peaceful people, this is what they use to cajole unsuspecting folks. Recently in New York, news came up that deadly disease is derived from homosexual people. They can stick their "peace loving trash where sun doesnt shine


Meningitis outbreak in L.A. gay community prompts plea for vaccinations
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-meningitis-lgbt-20160707-snap-story.html



Sexually Transmitted Diseases
https://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm

If they contribute to more diseases that already exist, they deserve death penalty. This is fasad

Bro, at the red, not only are they using "science" they are also using the media! Almost all the seasonal movies that have huge following have gay acts in them, even some of these celebrities have come out to declare being gay, subtly indoctrinating the viewers to see it as normal and not weird!

ikupakuti:


There is nothing genetic about that BS. Its pure deviant sexual practice. In so far GOD gave no other excuse for the people of LUT for their wantoness other PERVERSION & also didnt segregate them into classes in terms of punishment (annihilation) , then trying to raise a different case for them is like secondguessing or out guessing GOD.

Or is GOD not a good scientist/psychologist enough ?
Do we know/understand his creatures better than him ? Q67:14

Do we know better what punishment suits a certain sin than he does ?

Jazakallahu khayran!

Once some people read scientists "says" or "suggests", oti pari, it has been proven ultimately ni yen.

There is no conclusive evidence for a genetic marker for homosexuality or sexual orientation, the best that is out there is just correlation, and that does not mean such gene is responsible for being gay or determines sexual orientation! And even if there is such gene that predisposes a person to become homosexual (by the way, this said gene can only be seen in male and not female counterparts), it still does not make it normal or natural. Let me explain, there are some genes in women especially Brca 1 and 2, which predisposes them to cancer of the breast (and it is even inherited), do we now say, well it is genetic, we should accept that cancer of the breast is normal?! And by the way, research on human health with respect to diseases, disorders as well as treatment, is tending towards the molecular level.

AlBaqir why trying to smuggle homosexuals into the Qur'an?! Allahu musta'an! So why did Allah (SWT) destroyed the people of Lut (AS)?! And the verse you quoted about men who have no desire for women is basically about impotent men, or older men! Never about homosexuals! Abi don't you know that we have lesbians too?! Can we use the same verse to excuse them too, Sheikh AlBaqir?! Read and learn the Qur'an properly abeg!

A quick question to AlBaqir, how many of your Ayatollahs are hufaadh? I believe there should be records of this, since Ayatollah is the highest level a shi'a 'alim can ever attain, becoming a sign of Allah!

lanrexlan:
And what gives you the solid belief that those shia scholars in those videos didn't strive hard in learning about the proper pronunciation? Those submissions of yours? Maybe they also learn based on what was available then who knows.

Tahrif(distortion of the Qur'an) is an issue for another day.


You are still generalizing dear akhee, how many shia scholars' recitation have you listened to apart from the op??

Have you listened to Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hilli's recitation? Have you listened to Sheikh Mustapha Qawzini's recitation? Have you listened to Sheikh Murtadha Alidina's recitation? Have you listened to Sheikh Mohammed Ibn Yahya Al-Husseniy Al-Ninowy's recitation??


These are shia scholars too! Stop using some old papas to judge other shia scholars who can recite fluently.

First, I have not passed any judgement on anybody.

Secondly, I have not presented anything about tahrif on this thread, but rather quotes from Shi'a leaders who admit their lack of studying the Qur'an in their Hawzat and Universities.

Thirdly, these Shi'a leaders, Ayatollahs, confirmed by themselves this huge challenges they have with the Qur'an, and one of them even admitted that some of their students cannot recite the Qur'an properly.

Fourthly, I did not generalize, I only stated that I am not surprised, by their self admittance, if they cannot recite the Qur'an correctly.

Fifthly, I had posted this issue about how the Shi'a scholars have challenges with the Qur'an, and quoting these Ayatollahs, over a year now, and up till now AlBaqir and his cohorts have not refuted these claims by their leaders, rather he was just beating about the bush looking for how to rope the Sunnis into their queer beliefs.

Sixthly, If some of their scholars can recite correctly, all well and good, but this does not change the facts already presented with regards to their challenges with the Qur'an and openly admitted by their Ayatollahs, and by extension, their inability to recite the Qur'an properly.

"The Hawzah does not provide support with regard to the learning of the Qur’an such as the study of its text and its basic sciences, thus the Hawzah student learns Fiqh and Islamic thought without being capable of reciting the Qur’an correctly […]‘

‘The lack of Qur’an memorisation is one of the fundamental deficiencies in our Shiite Hawzas (‘seminars’) as it is not included in the curriculum, therefore, to this very day, more attention is given to the memorisation of the Alfiyyah (grammar work) and the Manzumah by Sabzewari (philosophy work) than to the memorisation of the Qur’an! This has tarnished the image of the Shia Hawzas, in fact this (i.e. lack of memorisation of the Qur’an) has lead to a sense of embarrassment in dialogue conference meetings between Shia scholars and scholars from other schools of thought, even in in front of their (i.e. Sunnis) young students …" [The Hawzah and the scholars of the religion, vol. 2, p. 250, by ‘Ayatollah’ ‘Ali Khamenei]

Finally habiby, Shi'as are known even here on nairaland, to make a mountain out of a mole hill, if the tables were to be turned, you would have seen several pages of long posts claiming this and that. You would see AlBaqir quoting hadiths thaqalayn, but the first thaql, which is the Qur'an, is/was abandoned even by their scholars! So what is left for the followers to hold on to?! The narrations from their books full of fabrications and unknown people?! You may think this thread is not proper or irrelevant, but I see it differently, this issue is a real problem which the Shi'as are facing, the reason why Ayatollah Ali Khamenei penned the above words..It is their reality!

lanrexlan:
Seriously dear akhee I am not here to defend shias or butt-lick their scholars but I think judging them by the recitation of some of their scholars is just totally wrong.

The similitude is a man visiting Yoruba land and prayed behind the late Cheif Imaam of Ibadan land, Sheikh Suaara and heard his recitation, not fluent nor with proper tajweed.

You would agree with me that most(if not all) old babas who are Imaams of central mosques can't recite the Qur'an with proper tajweed and mispronounce many letters of the Arabic alphabet.

How would it be if a non-yoruba is to judge the entire tribe with that? They are our leader and one would expect their tajweed to be the best, but the reverse is the case. Would it be proper??

Can we use that as a yardstick of judging the tajweed of other Yorubas?? Absolutely NO.

It is because of this tajweed of a thing, that some Hausa consider Yoruba folks not to be complete Muslim.
Is that proper

Well, our Babas learnt the Qur'an based on what was available to them in their time, they didn't have any other option and they strove hard to learn what they were able to learn and read, they never abandoned the Qur'an or had doubts about it, but such cannot be said of these Shi'a scholars. I presented a link in my post to show some of the challenges that are the probable cause for a poor recitation by these Shi'a scholars, anyway, I will let their leaders answer you accordingly, then you would understand the basis of my comment...

"Grand Ayatullah al-Khomeini writes about it in “al-Quran al-Thaqal al-Akbar” pg.32:

“I call on the Hawzat(Plural of Hawza) of knowledge and the universities of researchers, rise and save the glorious Quran from the evils of the ignorant and immoral scholars that attacked it and continue to attack the Quran intentionally. From my knowledge I say in all seriousness that[b] I feel sorry for my life that I’ve wasted on the path of ignorance and misguidance[/b], and you O brave sons of Islam, wake up the Hawzat and the universities so they may pay attention to the Quran and all the sciences related to it, and make the Quranic education your aim and your highest goal. So that you may not regret it at the end of your lives when old age strikes you, then you feel sorry for the days of youth, like the author himself.]

The current leader of Iran ‘Ali al-Khaminaei also writes about this Quranic crisis in several locations, we quote some from the book “al-Hawza al-‘Ilmiyah fi Fikr al-Imam al-Khaminaei” pg.59-60:

[al-Hawza al-‘Ilmiyah, as a result of circumstances and certain conditions and because of a specific view, was distanced historically from paying great attention to the Quran and the Quranic studies. This distance from the Quran and its sciences has left plenty of negative marks on the course of studies and teaching in al-Hawza al-‘Ilmiyah]

And he said:

[The isolation away from the Quran which has taken place in the Hawzat, because we are not delighted with it(Quran), has caused many problems in our present and future, also distancing ourselves from it(Quran) causes short-sightedness]

And he said:

[What causes one to wonder, is that the student of religious studies can become a ‘Alim(scholar) and a Moujtahid in Islamic thought and jurisprudence without (the need of) the glorious Quran “The book of revelation”.]


And he said:

[It is unfortunate that we can begin our studies and continue them until receiving an Ijazah of Ijtihad without the need of checking the Quran even once (…) Why is this? because our studies do not depend on the Quran.]

Grand Ayatullah Muhammad al-Ya’aqoubi leader of the Shia “al-Fadeelah” party in ‘Iraq admits to this reality in several locations in the book “Thalathah Yashkoun: al-Quran, al-Masjid, al-Imam” pg.39:

[And I had previously stated in some of my books that it is really unfortunate, that the Quran is missing from the curriculum of the Hawzat, it was planned in a way that the student does not need to dive into the glorious Quran from the beginning of his studies until their end]

And he said:

[And maybe the student at the Hawza might reach a high rank in Fiqh and Usool but he never go to live the life of the Quran nor did he have the experience of interacting with the Quran and understanding it as a message of restoration, and you would see days and weeks passing by and the student of knowledge has not touched the Quran to recite its verses and think about them, because there is no deep spiritual connection between him and the Quran (…) And this is a great disaster for the Hawza and society, and maybe some of them do not know how to read it correctly.]

Famous Iranian scholar and philosopher al-Shaheed Murtada Mutahhari talks about this in several locations in his book “Ihyaa al-Fikr al-Deeni fil-Islam” pg.44-46:

[The old generation itself has abandoned the Quran and left it, then they blame the new generation for being ignorant in the Quran!? It is we who have abandoned the Quran and we expect from the new generation to be attached to it, and I shall prove to you that the Quran is abandoned among us (…) leaving the Quran is the cause of our current sadness and depression, we are included among those that the Prophet (SAWS) complained about: {And the Messenger has said, “O my Lord, indeed my people have taken this Qur’an as [a thing] abandoned.”} (Quran 25:30).]

And he says:

[If a certain individual was knowledgeable about the Quran, meaning he would contemplate its deep meanings a lot, and studies its interpretation thoroughly, how much respect do you think he would have among us!? Nothing. On the other hand, if an individual reads the book of “Kifayah” by al-Mulla Kazim al-Khurasani, he would be a respected and distinguished personality.]

I must state categorically that I do not engage in just jumping into conclusions anyhow just because those in question are shi'as, I try as much as possible to have evidences to backup my assertions/opinions. So again, I am not surprised!

I'm not surprised at all, I had already created a thread on their scholars attitude towards the Qur'an here is the link:

https://www.nairaland.com/3071287/discussing-reality-crisis-between-shia

AlBaqir:


# Alhamdulillah you finally speaks the truth.

And how are monarchs generally portrayed in the Quran?:

"She said: "Verily! Kings, when they enter a town (country), they corrupt it, and make the most honourable amongst its people low. And thus they do." (27:34)

Bros, the Qur'an verse does not help your bashing the Saudi monarchy at all.

1. It is not Allah's statement but that of the Queen of Sheba. You cannot use Firaun's claim as a god to say he is a god or can you? Even when it is stated so in the Qur'an

2. The Queen of Sheba was actually responding to the Letter of Sulaiman (AS), inviting her and her people to Islam

3. Sulaiman (AS) was a King so also was his father

4. The Queen of Sheba was actually talking about conquering of lands, a take over of a land by kings which was a norm then, and mostly perpetuated by non-Muslims.

And by the way, I had been posting the truth, to the best of my ability, if you are just getting it now, all well and good.

AlBaqir:


# Like I told you, I am not interested in al-Qardawi. He is entitled to his opinion. Give me a single Salafi or Saudi scholar that ruled a man of 81 years old, because of his age, can shake woman. Then I can take that seriously.

Look at the exception Allah gives in this ayah for women:

"But when your children reach puberty let them (also) ask for permission as do those senior to them (in age). Thus does God make clear His signs for you for God is All-knowing, All-wise. Such women as are past childbearing age and have no hope of marriage, there is no blame on them if they put aside their (outer)garments, provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty; but it is best
for them to be modest and God is All-hearing, All-
knowing." (24:58-60)

# Quran is unique not to have mention any age bracket. Apart from the fact that we do not have any ayah that ask man to "put down their hijab" at anytime, it is a common knowledge that a very oldest Man till he dies can still marry and produce a viable sperm to fertilise woman(s).

# Here's a record:

Couple aged 103 and 91 to become world's oldest newlyweds after 27 years together

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3054302/I-didn-t-one-knee-wouldn-t-able-Couple-aged-103-91-world-s-oldest-newlyweds-27-years-together.html

# Now for the sake of generosity, lets assume Allah was also addressing man in that ayah 58-60 of sura Nur. Tell me the Saudi King has passed the age of producing children or marriage?!

# I heard of a man in my village who married his last wife at the age of 90 and the woman had two children for him before he died. If you do not believe, here's another world record:

Ramjit Raghav (born c. 1916) is an Indian former
wrestler and farmer who has been claimed by various
news media as the world's oldest father. He resided in
southern India with his wife. He claimed to have had his
first child with his wife at age 94. He fathered a second
child at age 96.

Firstly, Qaradwi wasn't basing his fatwa on his personal opinion, read, you no read, you just want to bash Saudis and Salafists.

You yourself just posted a 91 year old woman getting married, and you are arguing here. Don't you know that older women also have sex?! Some even tend to enjoy it more at this advance age. So what do we say about the Quranic verse?!

more evidences:

According to the Longitudinal Study of Ageing of 7,000 British subjects, more than 31 percent of British men in the 80 to 90 age bracket still masturbate and have sex. That compares to just under 60 percent of men between 70 and 80, which is still an impressive figure. British women aren’t nearly as frisky, according to the report, with only 14 percent of women between 80 and 90 and 34 percent of women between 70 and 80 regularly engaging in sex or self-gratification.

A similar study in the United States conducted several years ago by the Indiana University’s Center for Sexual Health Promotion found similar results among American seniors. While the American study divides its age group differently, the resounding result is that sex among the senior set is important, with 46 percent of men and 33 percent of women over 70 reporting that they masturbate, and 43 percent of men and 22 of women in the same age bracket saying they engage in sexual intercourse. Source

AlBaqir:

Asking question in this hot seat you put yourself is like trying to shift the goalpost but I will be generous.

# The question is that "old great grandma", according to the Quran, has she passed the " childbearing age or have no hope of marriage"? If she can no longer bear child and have no hope of marriage, then I can shake her.


* In the case under discussion, Angela Merkel, Trump's wife, and other women together with Saudi king, all of them are absolutely still within the age of producing children and marriage.

Lol, Mr. Man, you posted a 91 year old woman getting married, and some 80 years old ladies still get it on...

Now go and read and understand that prohibition of shaking hands with opposite sex is not about bearing children or getting married!

AlBaqir:

# Thank you for that.

I will infer you have agreed that the deposed crown prince and the newly appointed crown prince together with other Saudi royals who engaged (or engaging) in shaking hands are all committed (or committing) haram/sinful act.

The princes are just like any other Muslim, they can commit sins, but I cannot say with just the pictures you have presented, that they have committed a sin. For every rule there are exceptions, and sometimes one may find himself in such, and if such situations are devoid of desire and fear of fitnah, I cannot bodly say such a person has committed a sin. And isn't Allah (SWT) going to Judge us not only by our actions, but also intentions?! Do you know how Allah (SWT) is going to do that?!

AlBaqir:

# Your submission is weak, very weak as I have exposed up there.

# Then, if you are not "shying away from speaking the truth", tell us they did (at least those young guys) is a sinful act.

The truth is that shaking of non-mahram is prohibited generally, so as to block the pathways of evil and fitnah, so also is shaking of those who are permissible, but there is fear of desire and fitnah such as blood relatives. Old people are exempted especially when it is not accompanied with desire as well as children. An exception was only given by Qaradwi in such situations were there is no fear of desire or enjoyment, and being "forced" into shaking an opposite sex.

AlBaqir:

# You also, stylishly try to defend the King using "age theory and desire for sex theory". Many in no time will hide under this theory (in fact people already use it)/that " I can shake woman without having feelings for her". Can Nabi or many disciplined sahabah not do same, yet Nabi's rule stands that do not shake woman.

Age as an excuse is established, you may read the full Qaradwi's fatwa Here.
Another evidence for age, Allah (SWT) says:

"Allah is He Who created you from a state of weakness then He gave strength after weakness, then ordained weakness and hoary hair after strength; He creates what He pleases, and He is the Knowing, the Powerful". (Ar-Room: 54).

We all know that the creation from a state of weakness represents infant and childhood, while ordained weakness after strength is old age.

A quick question AlBaqir, can I shake an 80 years old great grandma who is a non-mahram?! If No, why?! What is the reason of prohibition?!

A young man who is sexually active cannot use this as an excuse, except he is impotent!

AlBaqir:

# Your being a Sunni does not mean you must defend Saudi king and his ruling class in their wrongdoings. Islam, and Sunnism is bigger than individual or set of individuals.

I have obligations to my Muslim brothers regardless of who they are, I do not shy away from speaking the truth, and I have done this on this matter and I have also provided a link on my stand.

AlBaqir:


Am interested in the bold part.

# First, Sheik Qardawi is entitled to his Fatwa and obviously its not bounded on anybody.

# Second, Allah in His wisdom and knowledge absolved absolved Hijab for Old women (who have reach menopause and lose their femininity). Quran talks about this specifically. What about Old men?

Here, age is not an excuse. Generally, men's sexuality no matter the age don't die easily except there is a medical problem.

# However, here we talk of an alleged world Muslim leader. Everything and anything he does speaks volume of "Islam" than his individuality. What a Muslim political leader do publicly speaks far louder than what 100 scholars say/preach publicly. That's why Islam did not separate church from the state, politics from religion.


# If they find excuse for the aged King, what about his newly Crowned Prince, Muhammad Ibn Salman, and other ruling class members? They also shook hands with ladies constantly. Pics attached.

# What about the Saudi, land of Kitab wa Sunnah's highest medallion honour they bestowed to the Kuffar?


# These people have displayed the opposite of the Quran:

Surah Al-Fath, Verse 29:

Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves;

# They've been harsh against their Muslim brothers, and generous upon the Kuffar.

# Imagine, Saudi authority in their so-called sharia law, declared shaking hands with woman haram, uncovering heads by women in the land of "Sunnah", haram, and seeking helps from kuffar, haram yet the ruling class publicly violating these laws of God. What kind of life is that? I do not need to lecture you (according to the Qur'an) how bad it is in that kind of lifestyle where you command and compelled people to abide by laws and you opposed those laws (privately or publicly).

I guess you didn’t read Qaradawi’s fatwa, and I do not force anyone to accept this opinion, but rather, bringing another view with valid arguments and evidences, so all your pictures and allegations are not necessary, I do not seek to criticize them.

The introductory statement of Qaradawi reads as follows:

“Firstly, it is prohibited to shake hands with a woman if there is fear of provoking sexual desire or enjoyment on the part of either one of them or if there is fear of temptation. This is based on the general rule that blocking the means to evil is obligatory, especially if its signs are clear. This ruling is ascertained in the light of what has been mentioned by Muslim jurists that a man touching one of his mahrams or having khalwah(privacy) with her moves to the prohibited, although it is originally permissible, if there is fear offitnah(temptation) or provocation of desire.

Secondly, there is a dispensation in shaking hands with old women concerning whom there is no fear of desire. The same applies to the young girl concerning whom there is no fear of desire or temptation. The same ruling applies if the person is an old man concerning whom there is no fear of desire. This is based on what has been narrated on the authority of Abu Bakr As-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with him) that he used to shake hands with old women. Also, it is reported that `Abdullah ibn Az-Zubair hired an old woman to nurse him when he was sick, and she used to wink at him and pick lice from his head. This is also based on what has been mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an in respect of the old barren women, as they are given dispensation with regard to their outer garments. Almighty Allah says in this regard: “As for women past child bearing, who have no hope of marriage, it is no sin for them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show adornment. But to refrain is better for them. Allah is Hearer, Knower.” (An-Nur: 60)”

In addition to this, Allah (SWT) states in the Qur’an again:

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire, or children who are still unaware of women’s unclothedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together, O believers, so that you may be successful. (An-Nur:31)

The bold in the above verse has also been translated to mean old men. Thus, if it is permissible for a female to display her adornment in front of such male, shaking hands would also be permissible, since the reason behind prohibition cannot be established.
With regards to the age of a male and his sexual desires, it is not that difficult to understand that as we age the functions of our body diminishes, including sexual acuity.

“Erectile Function: Normal age-related change in erectile function will affect sexual desire. These symptoms include a decrease in blood flow to the scrotum and penis; reduced tensing of the scrotal sac and delayed erection. Where a younger man may achieve a full erection in seconds, an older man may require several minutes to attain a similar response. More time and more direct penile stimulation may be necessary to achieve the desired results. Having a cooperative partner who is happy to provide manual and/or oral pleasuring will help facilitate and augment arousal. Assuming a mental attitude of nonjudgment, focusing your attention on the pleasurable sensations will help create the comfortable and relaxed atmosphere that promotes sexual arousal and intimacy. Being self-critical and demanding of a “performance” or comparing yourself to the way you responded when younger will create anxiety and stress. The stress response reduces reduce blood flow and hence, erectile function.

More bad news: penile sensitivity also decreases with age. Bottom line: to compensate you need to have more time for sexual play and a tranquil, comfortable sexual “climate” in order to maximize blood flow and sensitivity. Being able to receive direct manual or oral stimulation prior to intromission and possibly at periods throughout the sex act will help to sustain erection until orgasm. “Adapt or perish” as they say. If you try to hold onto the way it was and resists the inevitable; that is, physical change accompanying aging, you will no doubt experience more pressure and anxiety. The male phallus does not like pressure and will be likely to fold in its presence. While penile rigidity declines gradually beginning in most men at age 60, couples can compensate by experimenting with more creative and novel pre-intimacy and stimulation as well as different coital positions.” Source

Empiree:
^^^^

Ameena

Thanks.

Newnas, abdelkabir, demmzy15, vedexcool and co are blind followers. I have read their anti-sayd Qutb's pro terrorism stance several times. I just had to keep mute. It was quiet understood why Qutb''s views was sometimes extreme.

These people did not question how Qutb was brutally treated by the Egyptian govt and how he was tortured in prison. Yet are so much concerned about how ill treatment in Tayyimiya(ra) got from authority in his time. If this is what you called "salafiya", you have serious problems. I believe the "Quranist", usermane wrote negatively on Qutb too but he was fair enough by mentioning his ill treatment

You have made strong allegations against these people you have mentioned, I hope you can back it up...

Seriously though, I don't know where this strong negative criticism of Sayd Qutb and Ikhwan is coming from, what about seeking excuses for your Muslim brother when he errs?! Sheikh Qaradawi is also one of the targets of this barrage of criticisms, and most times I find them very unfair. For example, Qaradawi was criticized for his fatwa on shaking the opposite sex, and when I read the Sheikh's submission, it wasn't as painted by the critics, funny enough, the Saudi King who had a handshake was not criticized, but excuses were found for his action(s). Personally I would have wanted to quote Qaradawi on the issue, for the fact that the King is 81 years old! And is highly likely not to be interested in sexual relations, coupled with the event makes the whole thing a non issue.

Well, may Allah (SWT) guide us aright. ameen

The recent issues about Saudi and Qatar as well as the labelling of Ikhwan a terrorist group got me thinking...

I have read articles about how Ibn Taymiyah is not responsible for the hydra-headed monster called terrorism, which I strongly uphold, but the author kept pointing fingers to Sayid Qutb and Sayyeed Abdul A'la Maududii as being responsible. I find this quite incredulous! While I accept that Sayid Qutb isn't an Islamic Scholar in the real sense of the term, and he had made some errors, but labeling him as the instigator of terrorism I think is far too unfair.

I remember that books written by Sayid Qutb, Hassan al Banna and Al maududi were what I first got familiar with including Imam Al-Ghazali, these were the books that were read by the then MSSN brothers and sisters, and they didn't become terrorist, but rather were known of pursuing dawah rigorously and were in the forefront in various positive activities on campuses both in academics, University administration and student politics. They were know to confront cultists, and serve as safe haven for those renouncing cultism. They stood against oppression and were united in their vision and mission.

Hassan al Banna, the founder of Ikhwanul Muslimin, never supported terrorism. Below is an excerpt from one of his writing:

Mercy in the Islamic Jihad

The Islamic jihad is the noblest of endeavours and its method of realisation is the most sublime and exalted. For Allah has forbidden aggression. He, the Almighty, has said:

‘But transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.’
(Surat al-Baqarah (2), ayah 190)

and He commanded that justice be observed, even towards the enemy and the adversary. He, the Almighty, has said:
‘And let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety.’
(Surat al-Maa’idah (5), ayah

Allah instructs the Muslims to act with the utmost mercy. For when they fight, they do not instigate hostilities, nor do they steal nor plunder property, nor do they violate someone's honour, nor do they indulge in wanton destruction. In their warfare they are the best of fighters, just as in peace they are the most excellent of peacemakers.

On the authority of Burayda, may Allah be pleased with him, who said:

‘Whenever the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) appointed a commander over an army or a band of raiders, he told him to remain conscious of Allah Almighty in his inward self and to remain concerned for the care of the Muslims who were with him. Then he [i.e., the Prophet] said: "Strive in the name of Allah in Allah's way! Fight those who disbelieve in Allah: campaign, but do not indulge in excesses, do not act treacherously, do not mutilate, and do not slay children."’ (Transmitted by Muslim.)

On the authority of Abu Hurayra, may Allah be pleased with him, who said:
‘The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: "When one of you fights, let him avoid [striking] the face."’ (Transmitted by Bukhari and Muslim)

On the authority of Ibn Mas’ud, may Allah be pleased with him, who said: "The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said:
‘The most self-restrained from amongst mankind even at the time of killing are the people of iman.’ (Transmitted by Abu Dawud)

On the authority of Abdullah bin Yazid al Ansari, may Allah be pleased with him, who said:
‘The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) forbade plundering and mutilation.’ (Transmitted by Al Bukhaari)

It is forbidden to slay women, children, and old people, to kill the wounded, or to disturb monks, hermits, and the peaceful who offer no resistance. Contrast this mercy with the murderous warfare of the ‘civilised’ people and their terrible atrocities! Compare their international law alongside this all-embracing, divinely ordained justice!

O Allah , bless the Muslims with a correct understanding of the deen, and save the world from these injustices with the enlightenment of Islam!

Inaa lilahi wa inaa ilyahi raji'un, may Allah (SWT) erase her errors and grant her Jannah ameen.

AlBaqir:


Sheik al-Kulayni designed a system in reporting and compiling ahadith.

* The phrase refers to some specific people. He used that phrase at the beginning of the chain if the narrators of that particular to him personally were many (e.g. four and above). For example, in the above hadith: " A group of our people have narrated from Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Khalid.... This is what is written in the Introduction of al-Kafi p. 20-21 (and Mir'hatul huqqul, that is commentary of al-Kafi, by Allama Majlisi):


"Wherever al-Kulayni says, "A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid al-Barqi, the people therein are:

1. Abu al-Hassan Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashim al-Qummi 2. Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn ’Udhayna 3. Ahmad ibn Abd Allah ibn ’Umayya 4. Ali ibn al-Husayn al-Sa'd Abadi"


Not only the above. There are many. The list of those phrases with their names can be found in the Introduction of al-Kafi. # Attached is the scan page.

# According to 'Allamah al-Hilli, it was al-Kulayni himself who identified the narrator:

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/2940_%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B5%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%82%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%84%D9%8A/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_426

I do not want to derail this thread further, the above note, would only lead to opening a "Pandora box", but i'll just give a little hint. The follwoing is an explanation given about these unnamed narrators to Kulayni:

"However, the chain of narrators should be evaluated. If the chain turns out to be broken (i.e., one element in the chain is missing), then the tradition is considered weak in Isnad. Thus all the narrators should be named, and this is the case for the majority of Shi’i collections of traditions.

Nevertheless, there are only a number of traditions in Usul Kafi in which the last element in the chain is missing, i.e., the name of the person who reported to Kulaini in person. In stead of mentioning his name, Kulaini has used the phrase "a group of our associates". But Kulaini has mentioned all other elements in the chain.

The reason for this was that, as I mentioned, Shi’a have always been under prosecution of unjust rulers including the Abbasids. If Kulaini (ra) have mentioned the names of those who reported to him and were still alive, and if the book could have found his way to the officials, then all those reporters would have been killed. To protect them, he did not mention their names and codified it by saying "a group of our associates". However he mentioned the name of those who reported to him but died during Kulaini’s life.

But the good news is that since Kulaini knew the regulations of scrutinizing of the traditions by the Shi’a, he told some of his students how the names of the last narrators are codieifed"

The above quote is gotten from al-Islam . org, a Shi'a site... More obscurity and excuses is all I see. How are we certain that those names were actually those being referred to by Kulayni?!

You mentioned that according to Allamah Al Hili, that Al Kulayni mentioned these names himself, where and how?! It is quite interesting you are already studying on this path, hence, I am here to learn new information....

AlBaqir:



Sanad : A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn abu Nasr from abu al-Hassan al-Muwsali from abu ‘Abd Allah (as) who said the above hadith

Source : Usool Al-Kafi, Volume 1, Chapter 31,
Hadith #6

I had requested for a chain without anonymous narrators, but you still brought it. Where would I start from?! Who are "a number of our people"?

^^^ Please provide the chain, and I hope the chain does not contain an anonymous narrator?!

lanrexlan:
"Vision of God"
From the wise sayings of Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib, the Commander of the Faithful AS

Among the things he has stated, peace be upon him...
When Dhi'lib al-Yamani had asked him... "Have you seen your Lord, O Commander of the Faithful?"

So he replied, peace be upon him: "Would I worship that which I do not see?"

So Dhi'lib asked "How do you see Him?"

So Imam Ali, peace be upon him, said:

"Woe unto you oh Dhi'lib...

Eyes do not see Him with a direct witnessing.
But hearts perceive Him through the realities of authentic belief.

He is known through the evidence that points to Him.

He is described by indications.

He cannot be compared to human beings.

And He cannot be perceived by the senses.

Oh Dhi'lib My Lord is near to all things without physically touching them.

He is distant from them without being separate.

He speaks, but without the need for reflection.
He is manifest but not physically.

He has made Himself evident but without allowing direct vision.

He is separated but not through distance.

He is close but without sacrificing His exaltedness.

He wills, but without aspiration.

He molds but without the assistance of limbs.

He attains, but not through deceit.

He is subtle, but cannot be said to be concealed.

He is great, but cannot be said to be arrogant.

He is grand in His grandeur.

He cannot be described as having sizeable magnitude.

He is majestical in His splendor.

He cannot be described as massive.

He hears, but cannot be said to use the organ of hearing.

He sees, but cannot be attributed with the sense of sight.

He is merciful, but cannot be said to have weakness of heart.

He was before all things...

So that nothing can be said to be before Him.
And He is after all things

So "after" is not said of anything after Him.
He is within all things.

Without being merged with them...

And also without being separated from them.
He exists, but without the need to come into existence.

He acts without compulsion.

He determines, but without the need for movement.
Places do not contain Him.

He is not contained within time.

Attributes do not define Him with due respect.

The need for slumber never affects Him.

His existence precedes time itself.

His being precedes non-existence.

His eternalness precedes all beginnings.

He was Lord before there was anything to be lord of.

And He was God before there was anything to be god of.

He was knowing, before there was anything to be known.

He was hearing, before there was anything to be heard.

Faces surrender before His grandeur.

Hearts tremble exceedingly out of fear of Him.

Souls strive desperately to attain His full satisfaction."

By Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib AS in Nahjul Balagha & al-Kafi

Lanrexlan, what is the authenticity of the above?! I know Nahjul Balagha is not authenticated since it doesn't have isnad, moreover, its focus is said to be eloquence in language, thus, it is used as a book of Arabic literature and not a book to take religious verdicts or knowledge from.

Secondly, no doubt, we cannot see Allah (SWT) in this life, but there are substantial evidences (authentic) that establishes the fact that the believers would see Allah (SWT) in the hereafter, and that would be the ultimate reward after being admitted into paradise. You may read the evidences Here

Thirdly, I don't know your understanding of seeing Allah (SWT) in paradise, but part of what we shall see in paradise are what no eyes have ever seen, and no mind as ever even imagined, so I see no reason why anyone would find it difficult to believe that we would see Allah (SWT) in paradise, is it impossible for Allah (SWT) to make us see Him the way He wishes for us to see Him?!

Indeed Allah (SWT) does whatever He wants, and however he wants, befitting of His majesty and grandeur.

*Ramadhan & Poetry With Ibraheem*
*Day 29*

*Your Go Is A Ko*

The water pipe behind my eyes
The beating drum inside my heart
The ways my legs shingle at night
At the moon as you go has caused a ko.

For how long will you stay away?
Just tell me your re-entry date.
How would I live after you're gone?
O my love, don't do this to me.

I was lost like a fool until you came
My life is doomed if from me you sway,
Will you live me alone to whine again?
My days and night without you will be lame.

A man died some years ago
But his touch was all in his wife; You know?
Won't thou imprint in my infirm heart
The piety of romance and the fear of love?

I won't; No, I can't stop your locomotion
Though with you, my heart feels to motion.
But I know; if Allah wills, I'll be waiting
for you. This time, this month, next year.
Bye, Oh beloved Ramadhan.

*#TheBrokenPen*
*Ramadhan & Poetry*

*Ramadhan & Poetry With Ibraheem*
*Day 28*

*O My Lord*

O my Lord!
Here I come
Bow my head
Below Your throne
To You alone.

You know me well
More than myself.
That your slave
Sunk in sin,
I am lost.

Though was lost
But now I'm back.
Your door I knock
So hard with tears
Open Your door.

If You dust,
Away my sins,
Who'll challenge
What You do?
Pardon Your slave....

Oh Allah!

*#TheBrokenPen*
*Ramadhan & Poetry*

*Ramadhan & Poetry With Ibraheem*
*Day 27*

*Circle Of Adhkār*

In the circle of Adhkār
When the mosque was ajar,
Our minds to Dunya's afar
And beside me was the czar.

The repose we felt was cool
Like a lay beside the pool.
The breeze was pure than yule
As our talk wasn't of drool.

Descended and unseen they were;
And the wind their wings will stir
to comfort our minds on chair,
And peace all over they'll share.

You promised to remember them
And their plea you won't condemn.
Be pleased with me, I - hem,
My cry and chant with poem.

*#TheBrokenPen*
*Ramadhan & Poetry*

Fasting with Faith by Sino

Hey! You fasting in peace
Your iftar, with delight,
Your sahur, in the early hours, with bliss
You have just about 14 hours daylight!

The rain pour,
The cool breeze,
Your spacious palour,
Your drinks freeze...

Oh! Allah must love you
You even have more than you need
Your provisions come, as at when due
No worries, your claim, indeed!

But have you for a second,
Think about the plight of your brother?
Far and near, they beckoned,
We believe in Allah as you, and no other!

O you fasting in fear,
Your iftar with tears,
Your sahur in despair,
Your daylight you can hardly bear.

On you, the bombs rain,
Bringing along scathing heat,
See the ruins of your once lively terrain...
And your plight, to the world, discreet.

Still your love for Allah blossom,
Even in trials and tribulations,
You stand firm, fasting still, and not worrisome
Indeed, you are with faith! No delusions!

And when all is said and done,
When the hour comes and the scales weighed,
And this ephemeral world long gone,
May yours be Jannah, under HIS perpetual shade.

Ameen Ya raba-l-'alamin!

Sterope:
Hey! don't conclude for me. You don't know me. It is being sane to conclude that you won't let another human hit you.

I'm sorry for my previous comment(s).

Sterope:
Correcting which includes light beating

Please don't use the historical context excuse, historical context made alcohol Haram gradually but couldn't ban physical abuse the same way without leaving a caveat. Like I had stated, I am not buying it. I can take it personal, you are not the one being told to be beaten lightly.


Did the domestic abuse cases involved light beating or the serious one? Show me one that involves light beating. In fact, how many countries (Although I know that there aren't any Islamic countries on this planet Earth) that claim to practice Sharia define domestic abuse to include light beating?

Academic opinions aren't enough. They are based on individual understanding and they conflict all the time.



Please note, I know all about divorce and arbitration in Islam but we aren't talking about that.

I understand your point of view, and I know you know that not only beating constitute domestic abuse, there are other ways in which a husband can abuse his wife. Islam frowns on any form of abuse generally as well as specifically in marriage. As it had already been pointed out earlier, this beating is only symbolic, and cannot be said to be an abuse. It is said that it should be a single strike with a chewing stick or a scarf, it is not meant to hurt, cause pain or bruise, and should not be carried out for any other issue except in cases of infidelity or something similar, and not with regards to mundane issues like cooking, washing of clothes or any form of misunderstandings that is usually associated with two different people living together. Again some other school of thought said such actions although permissible is not compulsory, and not a religious obligation.

The reason why historical context is important, is the fact that, women were treated badly, beaten and chained, they had no status prior to the emergence of Islam. Islam came and corrected this, and instructed man to treat woman with respect and kindness. Light beaten as explained, would be seen as absolutely incredulous compared to what was obtainable before, so an Arab, who had been used to inhuman torture of women, and after accepting Islam, would not only realize that a woman is very special in Islam, but also know that he is never meant to hurt her even when she sleeps with another man in her matrimonial bed!

I would want you not to take it personal, except you envisage cheating in your marriage (and I pray against such), seek a righteous man, and also be righteous, you have nothing to worry about. No good Muslim I know see this verse as a licence to abuse his wife!

Academic analysis would bring to fore, facts, as well as objective interpretations devoid of biases to a large extent. There may be some elements of subjectivity, but still, you cannot deny the facts presented.

Sterope:
Look at the comparison for goodness sake, affliction me?

It seems you are already concluding you are going to be a handful for your husband? Anyway, I do not think the narration is focused on comparing misbehaviour to affliction, rather, it is the reward which a husband or WIFE who demonstrates patience would receive at the end of the day.

And if we are to go with your comparison with affliction, then the husband is also being compared to Firaun (la), and that is indeed a despicable human being, hence, patience should be the attitude of the spouses in a marriage, regardless of the misdemeanour exhibited!

*Ramadhan & Poetry With Ibraheem*
*Day 26*

*Laylatul Qadr*

I saw an angel fly
Maybe 'coz I felt high,
Or the sunset blocked my view
But after it another flew.
Wings seeking peace from the Ghafur
And many more ooze from Ma'mur.

Again i was scared like then
My first night in the lion's den.
And after I felt some peace
My smile was filled with bliss,
For I remember this night is one
Descending will they till dawn.

O mighty night of fate
At your gate I've come to wait,
Some fates I know are black
But mine is no more dark.
My friends with me in the mosque
Till dawn we won't rest on bosk.

*#TheBrokenPen*
*Ramadhan & Poetry*

Ghafur.... A name of Allah, meaning the forgiver.
Ma'mur... The ka'bah of the angels above the sky.

tintingz:
If the wife cannot exercise patience, can she beat the husband if he misbehave?

The husband is not allowed to beat his wife in the first instance!

tintingz:
Lol, sino ooo.

So a woman should be patient when her husband misbehave? Because she is going to receive an imaginary reward? But a man has every authority to beat his wife. This is very unfair and gender discriminating. Wether strike lightly with a single broom is not even the issue, the issue is will it even solve the problem?

Those Christians you quoted are no different from Muslims when it comes to treating women, you can see them pleasing the Arabs. What even make your post funny was that Christianity also degrade women, there books are filled with sexist, sadist, misogyny words just like Islamic manuscripts.

The Prophet (SAW) said:
‘Whoever remains patient with regards to the misbehaviour of his WIFE, Allah will give him a reward as great as Ayub’s (Job) for his affliction. Likewise, if a woman keeps patient with regards to the misbehaviour of her husband, Allah will give her a reward as great as Aishah’s Bint Bint Muzahim, (the Pharaoh’s wife).’ (Al-Hakim in Al-Mustadrak – Transmitters of this Hadith are trustworthy) (Major Sins [translators: Abdul-Hamid A. Eliwa Ali M. As-Sawi, Wa’il A. Shehab, Mahmud AI-Qastawi] by Imam Shamsu ed-Deen Dhahabi, page 136)

Sterope:
I still don't get it. I doubt if your submissions are relevant to the issue at hand.

Light beating was mentioned twice, once in the Quran and once in the Hadith. It is clear that it is what it is. However, it cannot be possible. At the end of the day, we can say that the impossibility is exactly the reason behind the provision. Either way, that prescription is all shades of abomination ever it is conceivable or not. It is basically saying that one gender has a right to anger. I am not buying it.

The prescription is in no way giving the right to anger to one gender, it only gave directives on the steps a husband can take in correcting (or showing displeasure of) a wife's infidelity. I believe this is not an issue, provided the husband and wife are righteous people in the first instance (there would be no case of infidelity). You must also put into consideration the historical context as well as culture i.e, the pre-Islamic and Arab's way of life. Thus my argument is; instead of trying to give a "new" interpretation and rubbishing well established narrations based on personal whims and desires, let's look at the full details, preferably academic, in analyzing the proper understanding of the verse in question.

I had provided a link where information about how marriages were dissolved on the basis of domestic violence, which were carried out by Islamic traditional Jurists.

Again, what Islam wants is for both parties to solve their problems, and divorce should be the last resort even in the case of infidelity, thus the following verse to the verse in question reads:

"And if you fear dissension between the two, send an arbitrator from his people and an arbitrator from her people. If they both desire reconciliation, Allah will cause it between them. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Acquainted [with all things]". (Q4:35)

It should also be noted that the arbitrators are the ones saddled with desiring reconciliation, and not the husband and wife. This would go a long way in achieving a true reconciliation.

Again, I must state clearly, this does not in any way support domestic violence or wife beating!

I must quickly add that some may raise a question on what steps a wife can take if the tables are turned. It should be noted that Islam had given authority to the husband, but has also placed enormous responsibilities with respect to his dealings with his family, especially his wife, so that he doesn't transgress, but if he does, the wife would need to seek an higher authority in addressing such issues although she can also admonish her husband. Thus she has the liberty to go to the Amir or the Qadi (judge) (or an equivalent), this would protect her as well as her rights, and the issue would be addressed accordingly.

*Ramadhan & Poetry With Ibraheem*
*Day 25*

*Moving*

As the car keeps writhing
The car of the holy month

Some have dropped
It was their bus stops

Some more will drop
When they get to theirs

Sit down and very tight
In the day and at night

If you won't be firm
Just get down now

If you are lucky
Don't mess up

I don't want to alight
This month is warmly cool

My target is to the end and
another start after the end

*#TheBrokenPen*
*Ramadhan & Poetry*

*Ramadhan & Poetry With Ibraheem*
*Day 24*

*At Night Of Qadr*

She treads as I stride
On the path of the light
I'm the groom of my bride
Against our bed, we will fight

The sun of the noon that weeps
And the tears of the sky that fall
And now my heart desire seeps
By His feet my kneels will crawl

O Layla, Laylatul Qadr is here
The reason we have to hold
Hold fast for the future we fear
And this night pray like the bold

*#TheBrokenPen*
*Ramadhan & Poetry*

Sterope:
@Sino, your submissions are IMPOSSIBLE

I don't know anyone who is pissed at the other person, proceeded to beat the person ‘lighthly' I.e in the context your submissions are claiming. It negates the whole thing. I am not buying it. Whether heavy striking or light striking, I don't want to know.

@Al-baqir, I don't want to understand that verse. All I know is that ‘thou shall not touch me EVER'.

The Prophet (SAW) was reported to have said, the strong is the one who is able to overcome his anger. Can you imagine how possible that is?! You are furious, angry at someone, you feel like squeezing the life out of someone, but then you calm yourself down, and overlook the whole thing. I've seen it happen, never say it is impossible. Husband and wife are meant to live together in love and mercy...

Secondly, what Islam teaches is to find solutions, not create more problems, Islam doesn't want you to just divorce yourselves even when adultery is the issue. Can you imagine that advising your wife is the first approach?! You fear that your wife is committing adultery, and Allah (SWT) says, talk to her, admonish her, give her lectures...Which man in this present day do that?! I ask you, is it possible?! We are not talking about your day to day nagging, bickering back and forth or some annoying behaviours, there are narrations which addresses that as well as another Qur'anic verse.

“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger saying: A believing man should not hate a believing woman (wife); if he dislikes one of her characteristics, he will be pleased with another.” (Sahih Muslim Book 8, Hadith 3469)

The Prophet (SAW) said:
‘Whoever remains patient with regards to the misbehaviour of his wife, Allah will give him a reward as great as Ayub’s (Job) for his affliction. Likewise, if a woman keeps patient with regards to the misbehaviour of her husband, Allah will give her a reward as great as Aishah’s Bint Bint Muzahim, (the Pharaoh’s wife).’ (Al-Hakim in Al-Mustadrak – Transmitters of this Hadith are trustworthy) (Major Sins [translators: Abdul-Hamid A. Eliwa Ali M. As-Sawi, Wa’il A. Shehab, Mahmud AI-Qastawi] by Imam Shamsu ed-Deen Dhahabi, page 136)

“O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them… And LIVE WITH THEM IN KINDNESS. For if you dislike them – perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.” – Quran 4:19 (Sahih International)

Thirdly, a wicked and bad husband needs no Qur'anic or hadith backings before he carries out his dastardly acts, and that is why it is allowed to divorce on the basis of domestic abuse, and even the man is punished and made to pay compensation to the woman according to the Shari'ah.