AlBaqir:


# Obviously, you really don't know the flaws in your manhaj's submission about Rajam (stoning).


# Let's start from this athar documented by Imam Bukhari:

Narrated Ash Shaibani:

I asked `Abdullah bin Abi `Aufa, 'Did Allah's Messenger (s) carry out the Rajam penalty ( i.e., stoning to death)?' He said, "Yes." I said, "Before the revelation of Surat-an-Nur or after it?" He replied, "I don't Know."

Reference  : Sahih al-Bukhari 6813 
In-book reference  : Book 86, Hadith 43 
USC-MSA web (English) reference  : Vol. 8, Book 82, Hadith 804 
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/86

# The above athar clearly suggest there was a question mark on the "punishment of adulterer by stoning" for a simple fact that it clearly contradict the ruling of Allah in the below noble ayah:

[24:2] Al-Nur 
(As for) az-Zaniyatu and az-Zaniy, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.


# Quran is crystal clear. It does not distinguish whether the culprit is single or married. Zina is Zina. Whoever commit Zina should be flogged.

# Unfortunately, some scholars choose to argue that the above verse only address "fornicators" (singles -male or female- that have sexual intercourse). And that married if guilty of the same crime should be stoned to death because ahadith established it. Can Hadith overruled the command of the Qur'an? Never, because Nabi will not contradict his Lord.

Rajm abrogated by hundred lashes punishment?

There are some from amongst the opponents of rajm who argue that it was abrogated by punishment of hundred lashes mentioned in Surah al-Nur. In other words they try to convey that rajm was an earlier practice of the Blessed Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- and Surah al-Nur was revealed after that, therefore owing to its general import it abrogated rajm.

Although they claim the above but they have absolutely no evidence for it. At the most they can refer to the following hadith narration;
Narrated Ash-Shaibani: I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi 'Aufa about the Rajam (stoning somebody to death for committing illegal sexual intercourse). He replied, "The Prophet carried out the penalty of Rajam," I asked, "Was that before or after the revelation of Surat-an-Nur?" He replied, "I do not know."

But as one can see there is no evidence that Messenger of Allah carried out rajm before Surah al-Nur was revealed. It only shows Abdullah bin Abi Aufa –may Allah be pleased with him- did not know about it.

The fact however remains that most if not all of the incidents of rajm practiced by the Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- took place after the revelation of surah al-Nur. Consider the following points;

1- Surah al-Nur was revealed after a false charge was made against Mother of the Believers, Sayyidah Aisha, which happened immediately after Battle (ghazwah) of Bani Mastaliq.

2-Historians differ as to the date of this Battle. According to Ibn Ishaq it was in the year 6 A.H. According to al-Waqidi and Ibn Sa’d it took place in the year 5 A.H. According to one report attributed to Musa bin ‘Uqbah it happened in the year 4 A.H., however, more authentic reports from him also put it in the year 5 A.H. Hafiz Ibn Hajr considering various narrations and facts has said that most preferable opinion is that of 5 A.H.
Therefore we can say, the latest battle took place in the year 6 A.H. though according to the most authentic view it took place in the year 5 A.H. and immediately after it the Surah al-Nur was revealed. Most accounts say it was the month of Sha’ban.

3- There is evidence of rajm carried out by the Holy Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- after year 6 A.H.
The incident of stoning to death of the Jewish adulterers is reported by the blessed companion Abdullah bin al-Harith, and he said, “I was among those who stoned the two.”

And Abdullah bin al-Harith along with his father came to the Holy Prophet after the conquest of Makkah. So his presence at the event means it happened in or after 8 A.H. i.e. long after the revelation of Surah al-Nur.

Regarding the same incident in a narration recorded by Al-Tabari, another companion Abu Hurayrah said,“I was sitting with the Messenger of Allah …”

And it is well known fact that Abu Hurayrah accepted Islam in the year 7 A.H. i.e. at least a couple of years after the revelation of Surah al-Nur.
Some people have objected to this saying how could the Jewish adulterers be punished after the conquest of Makkah while their tribes were routed from Madina well before. However this is not really a valid objection because even after the main Jewish tribes were expelled from Madina there remained many Jews in the city.

As recorded in Sahih Bukhari, Abu Hurayrah who- as stated above- embraced Islam in the year 7 A.H. said:

“While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, and otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Messenger.”

This proves even after 7 A.H. there were some Jews in Madina. In fact we know there was a Jew in Madina even at the time of the death of the Messenger of Allah- peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- (i.e. 11 A.H.) to whom his armor was mortgaged.

4- Other incidents of rajm date later than the episode of the stoning of the Jews as we find Abu Hurayrah saying that first ones to be stoned to death by the Messenger of Allah were a couple from amongst the Jews.

Narrations about rajm of Ghamdia (woman from the tribe of Ghamid) tell us that Khalid bin Walid threw stones at her. And Khalid bin Walid- may Allah be pleased with him- himself said: “We reached the Messenger of Allah at Madina on the first day of Safar in the eighth year [after Hijrah].”

All these days make it absolutely clear that the Noble Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- carried out stoning (rajm) after the revelation of surah al-Nur and there is no question of rajm being abrogated.

AlBaqir:



Obviously the sahih Hadith below strengthen the submission above:

Imam Tirmidhi documents:

Narrated Qatadah: that Anas bin Malik said: "Four gathered the Qur'an during the time of the Messenger of Allah(s), all of them are from the Ansar: Ubayy bin Ka'b, Mu'adh bin Jabal, Zaid bin Thabit, and Abu Zaid." I said to Anas: "Who is Abu Zaid?" He said: "One of my uncles."

Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)


English reference : Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3794
Arabic reference : Book 49, Hadith 4163
https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/49

Well, this narration did not state that these 4 companions (RA) mentioned, did what AbuBakr or Uthman (RA) had done.

Anyways to follow your submissions, so the Qur'an was gathered during the life of the Prophet (SAW), I don't think anyone had a problem with this, and one of those who gathered the Qur'an was Zaid bin Thabit (RA), who is one of the trusted scribe of the Prophet (SAW), hence his opinion on what AbuBakr and Uthman (RA) did would be sacrosanct.

Here is what Zaid bin Thabit said after he made comparison between the manuscript made under ‘Uthman and the the ones made under Abu Bakr –may Allah be pleased with them all-:

“I compared the Mushaf with those manuscripts; they did not differ in anything.” (Mushkil al-Athar, Hadith 2645)

So there is absolutely no problem, it is still the same Qur'an revealed to the Prophet (SAW), in arrangement of chapters and verses!

For the avoidance of doubt, the understanding of what Abu Bakr and Uthman (RA) did, here is what Ali (RA) had to say:

Ali (RA) said;

‘Concerning Musahif (codices) the greatest reward will be for Abu Bakr. May Allah have mercy on Abu Bakr for; he is the first one to gather (the Book of Allah) between two bindings.’ (Ibn Abu Dawud’s Al-Masahif 1/16-20 Hadith 8-12)

Al-Suyuti quoted and authenticated it in Al-Ittiqan 1/144 Section 18 calling it Hasan.

The bold above has a significance, since there happens to be a narration that indicates this important information:

"We said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! Is there anyone greater than us in earning reward, we believed you and followed you.’ He said: “And what is there that to stops you from it while the Messenger of Allah is amongst you and comes to you with the revelation from the heavens? In fact, there will come a people after you, whom the book will reach [only] in two bindings. They will believe in it and follow whatever is in; they are greater in reward than you.” (Al-Bukhari, Khalaq Af’al al-‘Ibad, Dar al-M’arif al-Saudia, Riyadh, 1398 AH vol.1 p.88 Classified as Sahih by Albani in Silsala Sahiha No. 3310)

Ali (RA) the fourth caliph had this words to say about the activities of his predecessor with respect to the Qur'an:

‘Ali said, “Do not speak of ‘Uthman anything but good because by Allah, whatever he did concerning the Masahif he did in our presence. He asked us, ‘What do you say regarding these recitations for it has reached me that some say to the others, ‘our recitation is better than yours’ even though this takes one towards disbelief?’ We said to him, ‘what is your opinion?’ He said, ‘I see that we should make all people recognize one Mushaf then there will be no difference or discord.’ We said, ‘An excellent proposal.’” (Kitabul Masahif, Hadith 62. Classified as Sahih by Dr. Wa’iz)

If you haven't downloaded the free e-book, go Here

In a peaceful town
Where the storyline begins
Mecca is the name

More than a thousand
Years of pain before victory
The days still count on

You know the story
How only memory stays
I miss him like breath

.....What Hijra Taught me.

Aswagaawy:
Wonderful.
Aptly written.
Powerful too

Assalam alaykum brother, are you the same Aswagaawy as presented in my post above?

Download the book Here

INTRODUCTION

Words have their own world wherein they wield vast appealingly magical powers. One word spoken well and timely heals and kills. It is no different in this collection of haikus written by a budding poet.

Most powerful words ever existed are found to have been inspired by divinity. It is no wonder that having gone through this collection of a hundred haikus three solemn times, I can't but agree that they were borne of pure Inspiration.

Haiku, of Japanese origin, is a special type of poem that wields such wisdom and perspective that may never be found in other kinds of poetry. It is a three-line poem with a 5 7 5 morae. Though, this rule is not stifling, the first line contains 5 syllables, the second, 7 and the third, 5 again. To write one haiku takes a good journey through reflection, but to write a hundred...

In this poetical series are carefully woven appealing 100 haikus on hijrah, a direct mirror of reminisce that have come with deep description of the prophet's life and his sohabas. Their struggles and triumphs, sufferings and survival, trials, voyages, hopes, travails, unity, brotherhood, honesty, sacrifice, conviction, fearlessness and other virtues.

What most amazes is how the poet cuts through a wide range of esoteric Islamic themes with few words, driving and meandering at will into the topics with expertise, like a blind painter paints with his mind, dropping the colours here and there into a perfect nature, as is from the archive of hijrah.

Ibraheem Ahmad has really done an astounding job of inspiration! If this collection must die, it should as a seed in the heart of every living Muslim youth of today. It is a must read!

It is recommended mostly for the one whose resolutions towards the new hijrah are crawling, hopeless and unyielding. Again, it is to be read and shared!.

Abdul Alim Ajenifuja
Co-founder; Islamic World of Talents and Creative Minds - ISWOT.

Dedication

To the bird that couldn’t find her nest

To the homes frozen to death

To the trees whose fruits are dead

To the roads injured by trekkers

To the deserts welcoming strangers

To those school without students

To those widows who lost touch

To the Palestinians on the run

The Syrians who are lost

The Rohyingans slashed to ten

The Chibok girls far from home

To the Ummah

To our predecessors who suffered first

To all students far from home

To them and to you, I dedicate this book.

Author’s Note
Writing an assemblage of haikus in a short time seems to me as running flawlessly on the ocean waves, it takes imagination, zeal and readiness. But then, it is all possible for one who's up for adventure.

A day to Hijrah, I was contemplating on writing a poem for the Islamic New Year. A sonnet came to my mind and I did to submit to a magazine.
Not long after that, a friend asked me what a Haiku poem was. I explained that it simply is a form of poem that contains 3 lines and 17 syllables, taking its traditional balance in mind which is a 575 line scheme, i.e, the lines contain 5, 7, and 5 syllables in each line respectively.

Although, there are other forms, this is the champion. Haiku can be traced back to Japan during the 9th century. Haiku at times is called "hokku" which means 'light verse'.

Having written an example for my friend, the breeze of thoughts kissed my brain. I began writing on Hijra and the Haiku became ten, then twenty, till I wrote thirty and went for Salat Asr. I pray Allah accept my prayer for my sujud had sprinkles of Haiku in it, I was so determined to make it 50. Ma sha Allah, I wrote 60.

I told the Author of Oro n Bo about it and he was astonished, he encouraged me to check it well affirming the fact that it was a great challenge I had thrown at him. My ink was about to exhaust when Meritborne messaged me, it was funny as he said, "Are you possessed by madness?", but my reply was "lol".

I don't want to bore you with reading this for you've got a lot to chew on, my broken pen landed me a round of 100 stanzas of Haiku. I'm happy and say Alhamdulillah....

This is my first poetry anthology, so, I'm giving it out as Hijra gift. It may seem impossible that these 100 Haikus were written in a day, however, it isn't the impossibility that matters, what matters are the hidden messages embedded in the seemingly few individual groups. The stories, encouragements, virtues and promises. I urge the reader to be as patient and as reflective as possible while reading to the last,
it is the essence of penning at all.

I will like to thank Abdulalim Ajenifuja {Meritborne}, Tawfeeq {Aswagaawy} and my own childhood friend, Aisha {Nanabee} for their time in critiquing this work and providing encouragement to write more. I must say, we did this together.

To my friend Hussain who I so long to meet but oceans keep us afar, you did a great job, thank you for that cover, my heart is in love with it.
I thank you all after that which is given to the Almighty, Allah.

Ibraheem Ahmad
{TheBrokenPen}

When a pen is broken, it spills its ink on a script; in most cases, it stains the book and
renders it a waste. Whatever script Ibrahim's BrokenPen spills upon, it makes one to
almost call it a scripture. This collection of poems is a must read as it takes you
through the very essence of Hijrah, the nostalgia and its message for today.
Ayeyemi Taofeek Aswagaawy
Author, Oro N Bo: Dripping Words.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Amidst the variants of opinions on the mannerism of the celebrations of a new year of
Hijrah, this budding writer has painstakingly written a formidable Haiku on Hijrah -
from the past, present, and lessons to be learnt from this year's Migration into a new
year. It sure is a call to the teachings of the Prophet in a very interesting way. Thumbs
up for a job well done.
Aisha Harun {Nanabee}
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
If I'm to tell generations to come about Hijra, I'll surely give to them this wonderful
piece.
HosseinThePoet

What Hijra Taught Me By Ibraheem Olanrewaju Ahmad

Writing an assemblage of haikus in a short time seems to me as running flawlessly on the ocean waves, it takes imagination, zeal and readiness. But then, it is all possible for one who’s up for adventure.

A day to Hijrah, I was contemplating on writing a poem for the Islamic New Year. A sonnet came to my mind and I did to submit to a magazine.
Not long after that, a friend asked me what a Haiku poem was. I explained that it simply is a form of poem that contains 3 lines and 17 syllables, taking its traditional balance in mind which is a 575 line scheme, i.e, the lines contain 5, 7, and 5 syllables in each line respectively.

Although, there are other forms, this is the champion. Haiku can be traced back to Japan during the 9th century. Haiku at times is called “hokku” which means ‘light verse’.

Having written an example for my friend, the breeze of thoughts kissed my brain. I began writing on Hijra and the Haiku became ten, then twenty, till I wrote thirty and went for Salat Asr.

I pray Allah accept my prayer for my sujud had sprinkles of Haiku in it, I was so determined to make it 50.
Ma sha Allah, I wrote 60.

I told the Author of Oro n Bo about it and he was astonished, he encouraged me to check it well affirming the fact that it was a great challenge I had thrown at him.

My ink was about to exhaust when Meritborne messaged me, it was funny as he said,

“Are you possessed by madness?”, but my reply was “lol”.

I don’t want to bore you with reading this for you’ve got a lot to chew on, my broken pen landed me a round of 100 stanzas of Haiku. I’m happy and say Alhamdulillah….

This is my first poetry anthology, so, I’m giving it out as Hijra gift.

It may seem impossible that these 100 Haikus were written in a day, however, it isn’t the impossibility that matters, what matters are the hidden messages embedded in the seemingly few individual groups. The stories, encouragements, virtues and promises. I urge the reader to be as patient and as reflective as possible while reading to the last, it is the essence of penning at all.

I will like to thank Abdulalim Ajenifuja {Meritborne}, Tawfeeq {Aswagaawy} and my own childhood friend, Aisha {Nanabee} for their time in critiquing this work and providing encouragement to write more. I must say, we did this together.

To my friend Hussain who I so long to meet but oceans keep us afar, you did a great job, thank you for that cover, my heart is in love with it.

I thank you all after that which is given to the Almighty, Allah.

Ibraheem Ahmad
{TheBrokenPen}

I'll be sharing the poems here and You can also download the free book Here

Nafizzey:
Jazakallahu kairan for this.

Wa iyyakum.

AlBaqir:


# Absolutely, you are not. That's the reason you muddled all of it together.

# Calling upon Allah directly, and seeking nearness to Him via Tawassul, both are proven by the Qur'an and ahadith. Enough have been said already.


# "Ya Muhammad", "Ya Ali", "Ya Hussein", " Ya Niyas" etc could only mean either:


1. Calling them with intent of Tawassul or

2. Calling them as God and Helper besides Allah.


# There is no third alternative. So, like I ask your fellow, is saying "Ya Muhammad" in Tawassul a shrik (polytheism) as thought by Nabi, practised by sahabah during and AFTER the demise of Nabi?

Yes saying that is Shirk, all the evidences you have brought are fabrications and stories, the Qur'an never supported calling others besides Allah (SWT), likewise the authentic narrations of the Prophet (SAW). What is the intent of doing tawassul when you say Ya Ali! help?! What sort of intent is that?! If I know that Ali (Ra) cannot help me and only Allah (SWT) can, why would I call him then?! People call on these myriads of awliyah with the intent that they can hear them, and they can benefit them, which is against the Qur'an and authentic hadith! If you claim that calling them is not worship, then for what reasons are you calling them?! You called them because you need something from Allah (SWT), and you made them intercessors, just like the mushriks did, they also believed in Allah (SWT), but they believe their deeds are not worthy to talk to Allah (SWT) directly, so they decided to get themselves intermediaries...This is what you yourself had claimed, that your deeds are not worthy, so you need intermediaries to relay your pleas to Allah (SWT). So why would you condemn the mushriks, when you also do the same?! The issue is even worse when shrines are now erected over the graves of these people you call besides Allah (SWT), visiting them as though they are places of worship....

AlBaqir:

# Again, you have assumed them to have independent power.


# This is exactly what confused one of the full blown Salafi heretic, Dr. Bilal Phillip when he publicly declared that saying, "as-Salamu alayka ayyu an-Nabiy" in tashahud/salama is WRONG and people should desist from doing it because "Muhammad is dead and cannot hear or reply back. He is dead and buried in Madina".


Interestingly, from Nigeria, Togo, Indonesia, Japan, to the far north America etc, all Muslims during their salam (after tashahud) usually say "as-Salamu alayka ayyu an-Nabiy". Does Nabi hear billions of Muslims who say salam to him, and does he reply back? All these can only be possible by the will of Allah. Hadith talks about the fact all the deeds of believers are being submitted to Nabi Muhammad every Fridays and he pray for them....Hadith also say there is no difference between the death and life of Nabi, so why would hearing, seeing and responding (by making Dua for) be difficult by the will of Allah, for the " Dead"?

Good, you brought this up, I guess you have forgotten about one of your favourite hadith to support your bashing of the sahabas, but I will remind you...

From Sahih Bukhari

Volume 8, Book 76, Number 533:

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas: The Prophet stood up among us and addressed (saying) “You will be gathered, barefooted, naked, and uncircumcised (as Allah said): ‘As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it.’ (21.104) And the first human being to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection will be (the Prophet) Ibrahim Al-Khalil.
Then will be brought some men of my community who will be taken towards the left (i.e., to the Fire), and I will say: ‘O Lord! My companions whereupon Allah will say: You do not know what they did after you left them. I will then say as the pious slave, ‘Isa (Jesus) said, “And I was witness over them while I dwelt amongst them………. (up to) …the All-Wise.” (5.117-118).

The narrator added: Then it will be said that those people (relegated from Islam, that is) kept on turning on their heels (deserted Islam).

Just like Isa (AS) would tell Allah (SWT) that after he was taken from earth, he DIDN'T KNOW what his followers did, so will the Prophet (SAW) would deny all these lies against him. So tell me how our deeds would be presented to the Prophet (SAW) again?! Is it the Angels would tell Prophet (SAW), AlBaqir called on you today, he said you should pray for him that Allah (SWT) should give him more money to do mathna abi

Anyone who is interested in reading the analysis of the hadith about deeds being presented to the Prophet (SAW) should go Here

And with regards to our salawat on the Prophet (SAW) being conveyed by the Angels, the narration did not say our dua'as would be presented to the Prophet (SAW), and such salawats are not said to be presented individually, like AlBaqir said salam on you this Friday, while sino did on Thursday at 12:00a.m, talk-more of the entirety of the Ummah!

Also, there is no narration that our deeds would also be presented to others, nor that they can pray for us on our behalf, you guys have no justifications for what you do, just pure conjectures.

AlBaqir:

# About the saliheen, the awliyah

Interestingly, while we are still wrestling about Nabi as wasila, other than Nabi are brought to the fore.

In summary:

1. Quran talks about for example martyrs to be Alive and not dead with the conclusions that: but you do not comprehend; ...they are receiving sustenance with their Lord


2. Ahadith talk about the fact that prophets are alive in the barzakh praying and even their bodies never decompose. Ahadith say the Awliyah (friends) of Allah have lofty status before Allah than some prophets. So we believe the awliyah are also alive and praying with closer proximity to their Lord.

# If shaytan is capable by Allah's will "to hear the thought" and advice (via waswas) of billions of mankind from different part of the world, I believe same power of Allah is granted to the awliyah to hear those who used or are using them as wasila (mediator/intercessor) to Allah, and in turn pray to Allah on behalf of those people. This is a noble cause considering the fact that:

1. Allah is closer to every individual than his jugular vein, but we are far away from Him by our lapses

2. The Awliyah are in His proximity more than what we can ever imagine.

It is even funny you brought up shaytan (la), I hope you know that he does have foot soldiers amongst men and jinns and they are all called shaitan?! And would you say shaitan (la) is all hearing?! Can you give Allah's (SWT) attributes to His creation?! This is a very dangerous reasoning, without proofs, you are making assumptions of what is possible or what is not in a matter that can make you a mushrikh?! Did Allah (SWT) tell you what and how shaitan (la) carries out his nefarious activities?!

You claim that these awliyah can here you, I mean, can hear all of those calling them, how? you start making analogies that cannot be substantiated. Did Allah (SWT) tell you that he had assigned angels who would carry your pleas to them?! Did the Prophet (SAW) tell you to call on him so he (SAW) can pray on your behalf?! Why do you look over clear words of the Most High, when Allah says, Call on me, I will answer?! Did any of these awliyah gave you such permissions?!

The Prophet (SAW) is alive, but not as he was when on earth, and even when he was on earth, he had limitations. I have presented one of your favourite narration that states clearly, the Prophet (SAW) doesn't know what his ummah did after his death, so was Prophet Isa's (AS) statement clearly stated in the Qur'an, that only Allah (SWT) is the witness over the affairs of the people, after he left earth.

Lastly, another clear injunction from the Qur'an that you guys have neglected, holding on to stories and fabricated tales...Allah (SWT) says:

"Do not make [your] calling of the Messenger among yourselves as the call of one of you to another. Already Allah knows those of you who slip away, concealed by others. So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment." (Q 24:63)

Go and read the books of tafsir, it is prohibited to say Ya Muhammad, this is a clear statement from Allah (SWT), how and where would this clear cut verse be overruled by the stories and fabricated narrations you presented?! Imagine, when the Prophet was alive, it was prohibited to call on him like so, how then would you start making such call after his demise?!

AlBaqir:
Continuation

# Abd Al-Wahhab (Died 1206 A.H):
Tenth point: Their saying on asking for rain (Al-Istisqa').


Their saying that, "There is no problem in doing Tawassul through the Saliheen (the righteous ones)," and the saying of Ahmad: "You may only perform Tawassul through the Prophet (saw) exclusively," whilst they said that you may not ask for help through the creations. So the difference is very clear.

And the statement is not what we find ourselves in. Some permitted the intercession through the Saliheen, some of them only permitted it exclusively through the Prophet (saw), and the majority of the scholars forbade that and disliked it. So this case is from the cases of Fiqh(jurisprudence). And even if the right (verdict) is with us, i.e. the saying of the majority; that it is disliked, then still we do not reject the person who performs it. There is no rejection in the cases of Ijtihad (effort to derive a judicial ruling). But our rejection is to those who asks a creation more than asking Allah (swt), and turns towards a grave, screams at the shrine of Shaykh Abd Al-Qadr or others, asking to be relieved from trouble and to be helped with what is asked, and to be given the needs.

So what is this compared to who prays to Allah (swt) sincerely and not asking others beside Him? But rather he says in his du'a: "I ask You by Your Prophet (saw), or by Your messengers, or by Your righteous servants," or he turns toward a well-known grave or other than that, and then prays in front of him, but he does not pray to Allah (swt) purely, then what is this compared to what we find ourselves in?

Source: Fatawa Wa Masa'il. Pg. # 68 - 69.

This is also not relevant to what we are discussing, I clearly stated earlier what the issue is, it is with respect to those calling on others than Allah (SWT), saying Ya Ali, or Ya Sheikh Niyas!

AlBaqir:

# Al-Haytami (Died 974 A.H):

Amongst the evil deeds of ibn Taymiyyah, something which nobody before him in this world proclaimed, is his rejection of Istighatha (beseeching for help) and Tawassul through Prophet (saw). This Tawassul through Prophet (saw) is Hasan (fair) in all conditions whether before his creation (i.e. him being sent to the world), after it (i.e. his death), also in this world and on Day of Judgment.

Proving The Intercession By Prophet (saw)
From what proofs that intercession by him is allowed before his creation and this is also a way of the Salaf As Salih, the Prophets and awliyah and others. The saying of ibn Taymiyyah does not even have a basis but it is of his lies. What Al-Hakim has brought forward and has authenticated that he (saw) said: "When Adam (a.s) made the mistake he said, "O Lord! I ask You by Muhammad (saw) that You forgive me." So Allah (swt) said, ''O Adam (a.s)! How have you known Muhammad (saw) while I have not created him?'' He (Adam (a.s)) said: "When You created me with Your hands (meaning His power) and You have blown into me from your soul as in from Your secrets that You have created and have blessed him with, to add to what you have said: ''And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him'.' (15:29) So when I raised my head and saw written on the heights of the Throne: "La-ilaha-illallah-Muhammadur-Rasulullah" I understood that You would not place next to Your Name but the Most Beloved One of Your creation. Allah (swt) said: "O Adam! I have forgiven you, and were it not for Muhammad (saw) I would not have created you."

Source: Jawhar Al-Munazzam fi Ziyaratil Qabr il Mukkaram. Pg. # 148 - 149.

I read somewhere that Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami was a Sufi and disliked Ibn Taymiyah, so the first part of your quote is understandable. But that is not my concern per se, I am always after the facts, details of the evidences each Scholar is presenting. So here, it is a narration about how Adam (AS) did tawassul. This narration had been refuted also as being a fabrication, read:

Hafiz Noor ud din Haythamee said : "It was narrated by al-Tabarani in al-Awsat and it contains one whom I do not know."[Majma az-Zawaid 8/253]

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Qaa'idah al-Jaleelah fi'l-Tawassul wa'l-Waseelah (p. 69):

Al-Haakim's narration of this hadeeth is something for which he was denounced, and he himself said in his book al-Madkhil ila Ma'rifat al-Saheeh 'an al-Saqeem:

'Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Zayd ibn Aslam narrated fabricated ahaadeeth from his father, and it is obvious to any competent hadeeth scholar that he is the one to blame for fabricating ahaadeeth. I say: 'Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Zayd ibn Aslam is da'eef (weak) because he made a lot of mistakes.(end)

Hafiz Jalal ud din as-Suyuti said:
This hadith is in Behaqi, At-Tabrani the hadith of Umar with weak chain
[Manahil us-Safa fe Takhreej ahadith as-Shifa page no: 94 no: 381 Dar al Janan]

Comment: Some of the sufis say Jalal ud din Suyuti declared this hadith to be authentic which is blatant lie because In Tafsir Jalalayn they supported stance of Ahlus sunnah Tafsir Jalalyan under 2:37 Thereafter Adam received certain words from his Lord, with which He inspired him (a variant reading [of Ādamu] has accusative Ādama and nominative kalimātu), meaning they [the words] came to him, and these were [those of] the verse Lord, we have wronged ourselves [Q. 7:23], with which he supplicated, and He relented to him, that is, He accepted his repentance; truly He is the Relenting, to His servants, the Merciful, to them.(end quote)

Hafidh Ibn Hajar Asqalani said:

Abdullah bin Muslim abu-Al Harith al-Faheree narrated from Ismaeel bin Muslama bin Qa`nib from Abdul Rahman bin Zaid bin Aslam A baseless and futile narration.in which (Allah says) "O Adam and were it not for Muhammad I would not have created you" Narrated by al-Behaqi in Dalail an-Nabuwwah I say:“And I do not think it to be unlikely that he is one and the same person as the one just quoted since he is of the same level and time.”(end quote Lisan al-Meezan Vol 5 page 12 no: 4462]

Comment: Muhadditheen always make their rulings by watching all the routes of hadith, If it was not fabricated Ibn Hajar would never say the hadith is Baseless.

Al-Albaani added after quoting Ibn Hajar Asqalani

The narrator whom he spoke of before him was 'Abdullaah ibn Muslim ibn Rushayd, about whom al-Haafidh said: "Ibn Hibbaan mentions him, he is accused of fabricating ahaadeeth. He fabricates narrations which he attributes to Layth, Maalik and Ibn Lahee'ah. It is not permissible to write down his ahaadeeth. He is the one who narrated a manuscript of hadeeth from Ibn Lahee'ah, and it seems to be something deliberately invented."[al-Silsilah al-Da'eefah, no: 25 where he declared it to be fabricated]

Ali Bin Muhammad bin Iraq al-Kinani (907 h-963 h) said ( 105 )

Abdullah bin Muslim abu-Al Harith al-Faheree narrated from Ismaeel bin Muslama bin Qa'nib from Abdul Rahman bin Zaid bin Aslam A baseless and futile narration [Tanzih us Shari’ah al-Marfooa an ahadeeth Shia al Modhuaa” vol 1 page 76]

Above were the clear verdicts of scholars who fabricated and weakened the hadith and there are others who said it is weak.

Again AlBaqir, can you see how your so called evidences are worthless?!

AlBaqir:


# General Authority of Islamic Affairs &
Endowments of Kuwait

Intercession From The Prophet (saw) After His Death

The scholars have differed about the legitimacy of intercession with the Prophet (saw) after his death.
For example, the saying of someone who says: "O Allah (swt)! I ask You by Your Messenger, or by the position of Your Prophet (saw), or by the right of Your Prophet (saw)." There are different opinions about these kinds of intercession: The first opinion is of the majority of the Maliki, Shaf'i, and also later Hanafi jurisprudence and this is also the case with the Hanbalis that this sort of intercession is allowed whether it is during the lifetime of
the Prophet (saw) or after his death.

Source: Al-Muwsu'a Al-Fiqhiyya Al-Kuwaitiyya. Vol. 14, Pg. # 156.

Actually, I don't know what you are trying to prove with the above, because the example clearly state "O Allah!" That is praying to Allah (SWT) directly! And in truth, there are difference of opinion with regards to this form of tawassul and the majority of opinion is that it is disliked, but that is not an issue here, we are talking about those calling others than Allah!

AlBaqir:

# Ibn Al-Zaini Dahlaan Al-Makki Al-Shafi'i (Died 1304 A.H):

And in it is the calling (to someone) with it's saying, "and you are our hope" and the Sahabah used to hear such poems and no one rejected it's saying, "O Messenger of Allah (saw)! You are our hope." Al-Allamah ibn Hajr in his book, "Al-Musamma," in chapter 25, said that Imam Shafi'i during the days that he was in Baghdad, used to perform Tawassul through Imam Aboo Hanifa. He used to come to his shrine, visit it and greet him, and then perform Tawassul through him to Allah (swt) in able to fulfill his need. And it has been proven that Imam Ahmad performed Tawassul through Shafi'i, until his son Abdallah bin Ahmad used to be amazed by that. So Ahmad said to him: "Shafi'i is like the sun to the people and good health to the body." And when Shafi'i heard that the people of Morocco performed
Tawassul through Malik, he did not reject it. Imam Abul Hassan Al-Shadhili said: "He who has a need from Allah (swt) that he wants to be fulfilled, should perform Tawassul through

I don't know where verses from poetry constitute evidences in matters of the deen. The sahabahs hearing something and didn't reject it does not mean that the sahabahs called the Prophet (SAW) directly in dua'a. And poetry is poetry, a poet would use words to suit what he intends, even if such words or statement may contradict the shari'ah...

Again the fictitious story of Imam Shafi'i already debunked read my previous submission...

AlBaqir:

# Al-Allamah ibn Hajr mentioned in his book, "Al-Musamma" that Shafi'i performed Tawassul through the members of the Household of the Prophet (saw) when he said: "The Family of the Prophet (a.s) are my plea, and they are my means of closeness to Him, I hope tomorrow through them I will be given, in my right hand my Book (of deeds)."
Source: Khulasatul Kalam Fi Bayan Umara
Al-Balad Al-Haram. Pg. # 38.

Another story from the same book?! Can you authenticate it?! But again this is also no problem, because the statement is about Judgement day, collecting his book of deeds by his right hand. We did not read that Imam Shafi'i when suplicating says Ya Ali! or Ya Husein, and I hope you guys call Ya Fatimah too...

AlBaqir:

# Ibn Taymiyyah on (Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Died 241 A.H)):
Question about Tawassul through the Prophet (saw). Is that allowed or not?

As for the saying: "O Allah (swt)! I seek out to You through him (saw)," then among the scholars there are two opinions, such as they have two opinions on swearing through him (saw). The majority of the Imams such as Malik and Shafi'i and Abi Hanifa are of the opinion that it is not justified to swear through him (saw) just like it is not allowed to swear through any of the Prophets (pbut) and the angels. So it may not be performed by agreement of the scholars. And this is one of the two narrations of Ahmad. And the other narration says that it (swearing) may be performed through him (saw) exclusively, without anyone other than him. And therefore Ahmad said in his Musnad that it is allowed to perform Tawassul through the Prophet (saw) in his supplication. But Ahmad does not say: "This is swearing upon Allah (swt) through him," and one may not swear upon Allah (swt) through creations. And Ahmad in one of the two narrations allowed the swearing through him, and therefore he allowed Tawassul through him. But the other narration from him is like the opinion of the majority of the scholars, that one may not swear through him. So one may not swear upon Allah (swt) through him (saw) just like the rest of the angels and the Prophets (pbut). Because we do not know anyone from the Salaf and the Imams who said that it is allowed to swear upon Allah (swt), just like they did not say that it is allowed to swear through them at all.

Source: Fatawa Al-Kubra by ibn Taymiyyah. Vol. 2, Pg. # 422.

This quote does not help your case, again calling others instead of Allah (SWT) is shirkh, but calling on Allah (SWT) alone and using the Prophet (SAW) as tawassul is not shirkh but a bid'ah...Anyways let me quote what the Hanbalis view is:

al-Mardawi said
"The correct position of the [Hanbali] madhhab is that it is permissible in one's dua to use as one's means of a pious person (saalih), and it is said that it is desirable (mustahabb). Imam Ahmad said to Abu Bakr al-Marwazi: 'Let him use the Prophet as a means in his supplication to Allah (SWT). (Mardawi cleared the statement of Imam Ahmad by quoting Shaykh Taqi ud din) "Shaykh Taqiyudin considered it as the case of the Yameen and he said : " Tawassul with Iman in him (peace be upon him), obedience to him(peace be upon him), love for him (peace be upon him), salam on him(peace be upon him), or with his du'a and his shafa'ah, which is from his actions or actions of
worship ordered for his right, this is legislated by consensus', and this is from Wasilah ordered " And Seek Wasilah to Him" Imam Ahmad and other scholars said regarding the saying of Prophet peace be upon him {"I seek refuge in the perfect Words of Allaah" } "There is no Seeking refuge in creation.
(Al-Insaf 2:456) This is also cited by Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmu’ Al-Fatawa (1:140).

So we now understand what Imam Ahmad means by his statement of making dua'a by using the Prophet (SAW) as a tawassul, it is NOT BY CALLING ON THE PROPHET (SAW) OR CALLING ON THE DEAD!

.....To be continued in sha Allah.

AlBaqir:
Sunni Scholar's Opinion On Tawassul

# Imam Al-Subki (Died 756 A.H):

It should known that Tawassul and intercession through the Prophet (saw) in the court of Allah (swt) is not only allowed but is recommended. It being legal and recommended is a known fact for everyone who has understanding of religion, this is a deed of Prophets/Messengers, the predecessors, the scholars and general public of Muslims. None of the religions denied it nor in any time were these deeds called bad except for when ibn Taymiyyah and he started to reject them. His sayings made the weak get into confusion/dilemma, he did such a innovation which nobody before him had done. And that's why he has attacked (rejected in an unkind way) what Malik Rahimahu Allah Ta'ala has mentioned. For it contains the saying of Malik Rahimahi Allah Ta'ala to Mansur: ''And ask forgiveness by him.''

Source: Shifa Us Siqaam Fi Ziyaratal Khayrul Anaam. Pg. # 357.

First of all @ bold, As Subki was referring to a story from Malik, that Ibn Taymiyah was attacking it...I believe what ought to be your priority is if the story is authentic or not, even if Subki believes it is authentic, you cannot just accept his statement without proofs…
Anyway, let’s look at this story, again, it should be noted that it is always “story” that you guys bring as proofs for this belief, compared to clear Qur’anic verses and authentic narrations from the Prophet (SAW)…

"Once caliph Abū Ja‘far Mansūr visited Medina and he asked Imam Mālik: “While supplicating, should I turn my face to the prayer niche [and turn my back to the Holy Prophet (SAW)] or should I turn my face to the Holy Prophet (SAW) (and turn my back to the prayer niche)?” On this interrogation, Imam Mālik replied: “(O caliph!) Why do you turn your face from the Holy Prophet (SAW), as he is the source of mediation for you and for your ancestor Adam (AS) on the Day of Judgement? Rather you should (pray and supplicate by) turning towards the Prophet (SAW) and seek his intercession so that he intercedes for you before Allah on the Day of Judgement. Allah has declared:

"We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah.s forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful"(4:64)

Qādī ‘Iyād in his ash-Shifā (2:596) Subki copied in Shifā’-us-siqām fī ziyārat khayr-il-anām

This story does not state anything regarding Istigatha, rather it clearly states “(O caliph!) Why do you turn your face from the Holy Prophet (SAW), as he is the source of mediation for you and for your ancestor Adam (AS) ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT. Rather you should (pray and supplicate by) turning towards the Prophet (SAW) and seek his intercession so that he intercedes for you before Allah ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT."

So, this is regarding seeking the intercession of the Prophet peace be upon him on the day of judgement, There is not a single word in the narration which states the Prophet peace be upon him will help you if you ask him for help etc. That is why Imam Ibn Taymiyyah said:

Some of the ignorants mentioned this from Imam Maalik and accept a false narration from Imam Malik in this regard, And even if the narration is considered as authentic than it has nothing to do with innovative tawassul, rather it is regarding intercession on the day of judgement, but some of the people change its meaning, first thing is that the narration is weak itself. [Majmu al Fatawa 1/69]

This Story is Fabricated

Shaykh Muhiydeen Muhammad ibn Ali al-Birqivi al-Hanafi (929 h) said in his book "Ziyaratul quboor" On page 58,

Abu Hanifah Rahimullah says one should also face qiblah during salam and he should not face the grave, and other than him said one should face grave during salam only, and none of the 4 Imams said to face the grave during du’a, except a lied story from Malik, and his madhab is opposed to that..(end)

Story is Against Authentic Ahadith and Madhab of Imam Malik

Abu dawud

Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Do not make your houses graves, and do not make my grave a place of festivity. But invoke blessings on me, for your blessings reach me wherever you may be. (Abu Dawood Book #10, Hadith #2037 and Albani Authenticated it)

and Muwatta Book 9, Number 9.24.88:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from Ata ibn Yasar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "O Allah! Do not make my grave an idol that is worshipped. The anger on those who took the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration was terrible."

Al Haythamee Quoted this Hadeeth under the Chapter of "Chapter Saying Do not turn my grave into an idol" in his Majma Az Zawaid.

Ibne Abdul Hadee Authenticated By saying: Hasan jayid…

Awn al Mabood Sharah Sunan Abi Dawood under the commentary of this hadeeth

Imam Malik Said:
Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about a stranger who comes to the grave of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) each day. He said, ‘That is not right,’ and quoted the hadith, ‘O Allah, do not make my grave an idol that is worshipped.’”
[al-Jami’ li’l-Bayan by Ibn Rushd Classed as sahih by al-Albani in Tahdhir al-Sajid min Ittikhadh al-Qubur Masajid, p. 24-26.]

Al-Qaadi ‘Iyaad al-Maliki said that Imam Maalik was asked:

Some of the people of Madina who "HAD NEITHER COME FROM A JOURNEY NOR WERE GOING ON A JOURNEY" would do that once a day or more, sometimes once or twice on Jumu'a or other days, giving the greeting and "MAKING SUPPLICATION FOR AN HOUR".

He replied:

"I have not heard of this from any of the fuqaha'of my city, Leaving it is permitted and nothing is good for the latter generations of this ummah except that which was good for its first generations. I have not heard that any of the first generations of the ummah used to do that. It is disliked "EXCEPT FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS COME FROM OR IS GOING ON A JOURNEY" Imam Ibn al-Qasim (Authentic narrator from Imam Malik) said: When the people of Madina left or entered Madina, I saw that they used to come to the grave and give the greeting. He said: "AND THAT IS MY OPINION"
[Al-Shifa bi Ta'reef Huqooq al-Mustafa, 2/676, Shaykh al Islam Ibn Taymiyyah quoted same passage in Majmoo Fatawa 1/232]

al-Qadi 'Iyaad al-Maliki on how the Prophet's intercession is sought:

"From the famous narrations it is evident that the righteous predecessors would seek the Prophet's intercession and they had a desire to do that. So, do not pay attention to the one who claim that it is disliked to ask Allah for the intercession of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Because his intercession is not limited to the sinners, rather ease in the hisaab (of the person), and It would also be for it would also be for increase in darajaat." [Sharah Sahih Muslim hadith no: 183]

It clearly states that we should ask Allah for the intercession of the Prophet peace be upon him.

Empiree:
Nija thing where we read more than half of a newspaper at newsstand. Buying it afterwards constitutes waste of money

Anyways, i skip pages when it comes to posting. Author wont mind me posting intermittently by the way




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lULF11aiHvU

Imam Shadeed Muhammad
Season imam at AlhuSunnah wal Jammah
Queens New York

Free Readers Association (FRA)

I am only pulling your legs bro

Do you know if the book is available in Nigeria?

AlBaqir:

Second:

# Al-Allamah ibn Hajr in his book, "Al-Musamma," in chapter 25, said that Imam Shafi'i during the days that he was in Baghdad, used to perform Tawassul through Imam Aboo Hanifa. He used to come to his shrine, visit it and greet him, and then perform Tawassul through him to Allah (swt) in able to fulfill his need. And it has been proven that Imam Ahmad performed Tawassul through Shafi'i, until his son Abdallah bin Ahmad used to be amazed by that . So Ahmad said to him: "Shafi'i is like the sun to the people and good health to the body." And when Shafi'i heard that the people of Morocco performed Tawassul through Malik, he did not reject it.


Third:

# I will quote various Sunni Ulama's opinion on Tawassul

Shaykh Muhiydeen Muhammad ibn Ali al-Birqivi al-Hanafi (929 h) said in his book "Ziyaratul quboor" On page 58,

"Salamah ibn Waradan said : I saw Anas ibn Malik doing salam on the Prophet saw then he put his back towards wall of grave and did du’a, and this is from which there is no dispute between scholars, and the dispute is only in time of salam. Abu Hanifah says one should also face qiblah during salam and he should not face the grave, and other than him said one should face grave during salam only, and none of the 4 Imams said to face the grave during du’a, except a lied story from Malik, and his madhab is opposed to that, and the same for the story reported from Shafi’I that he made purpose of du’a at Abu Hanifa’s grave, this is from clear (blatant,Obvious) Lie.rather they said to face Qiblah during du’a and not to face grave so that du’a is done on graves, because du’a is worship as it is established from Tirmidhi in marfu’ form ( words of Prophets) : “ Du’a is worship” and salaf from Sahabah and Tabi’I made singled ibadah for Allah, and they did not do anything on the grave except what the Prophet peace be upon him permitted from salam to his companions and istighfar for them and mercy for them.(end)

b) Shaykh ul Islam Ibne Taymiyah Rejected this Narration in Iqteza Sirat Al Mustaqeem page 343 and 344

c) Ibnul-Qayyim said in "Ighathatul Lahfan fi Masayid Al Shaytan" (1/246):
"Story related from al-Shafaee that he made supplications at Abu Hanifa's grave is apparently lie."

d) Shaykh Zubair Ali Zai mentioned that it is fabricated and accused those who use this athar, and he said Omar bin Ishaq is Majhool.[Majallah Al hadith no:26 page 49 and 50]


InshaAllah Read more

You see your evidences?! Compared to the Qur'an and authentic narrations from the Prophet (SAW) presented by the OP?! And this is what you call people to?!

In sha Allah, i would continue to refute all your so called evidences as already presented later in the day....

AlBaqir:



First:

# No doubt all the above opinions and interpretations are that of the Salafiyyah ideology who followed the Aqeedah and fiqh of Ahmad Ibn Hanbali.


# Personally, I have no problem in whatever they choose to believe in or interpreted the hadith to be. This is because opinions of Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanafi are also there in contrary to those of Salafiyyah.


# To the underlined abovementioned opinion, the context of the Du'a in that sahih Hadith and interpretations of other Sunni scholars destroyed it 100%. The Dua says:

"O Allah, I ask of You and I turn my face towards You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me"

# The praiseworthy status of Nabi before Allah is what makes his intercession accepted. Meaning that:


1. You need to recognised Nabi as "a mean (wasila) to reach Allah"

2. Then, you seek his intercession

You have not disproved the academic analysis brought forth, you are just repeating what you have said which is very weak. The blind man came to the Prophet (SAW) for prayers, and that is well established, you can ask others (living) to make dua for you, especially righteous and upright people.

Again, I will put it to you directly, why only quote part of the du'a and not the rest? I mean the bold below: “O Allah, I ask You and I turn to You by virtue of Your Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I turn by virtue of you to my Lord concerning this need of mine, that it might be met for me. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me and accept my intercession concerning him.”

So is the blind man also granting intercession for the Prophet (SAW) too?! Again, if this was a tawassul, were are the narrations from the companions making use of such wordings as above for tawassul?! Or they didn't understand how to make tawassul?!

You claim interpretation of other sunni scholars destroys the above submission abi?! We shall see...

AlBaqir:

# Based on these points and deductions, Imam an-Nawawi said while emphatically proving Tawassul said:


(The pilgrim) should turn towards the face of the
Messenger of Allah and make him a means (tawassul) for the sake of himself and also seek his intercession
(shafa'at) towards reaching God. In this regard “THE BEST OF SAYINGS” is the Hikayat of Imam al-Marwadi and Qadhi Abu at-Tayb and “ALL MY OTHER ASHAAB (I.E. SHAWAFI) also narrate it by considering it HASAN/RECOMMENDED” the narration of Utbi” i.e. A Bedouin who visited the Prophet's grave and sat beside it said: Peace unto you O Messenger of Allah, I have heard Allah has said: Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful. (Holy Qur'an 4: 64). Therefore, I have come to you for forgiveness of my sins and seeking your intercession with Allah

Source: Imam an-Nawawi in Al-Majmu', Volume No. 8, Page No. 274

I would mention here categorically that people should not just take quotes from you AlBaqir as evidence, they should make their own independent research, because, there are lots of misrepresentation and alterations of facts....

First, the story of Utbi can never be used as evidence in this matter, it is not authentic, and it is not even a narration, it is just a story that cannot be substantiated! How would anyone use a story as evidence for an aqeedah issue?! How can one use a story against clear cut Qur'anic verses?! Is this how you arrive at correct Islamic evidences AlBaqir?!

Anyway, Alhamdulilah for steadfast brothers who do proper research, we shall see if Imam Nawawi believes in what you claim. I am only a conveyor of their works ma sha Allah (perhaps you would want to shout your favourite line..."cut & paste" )

Creed of an-Nawawi
Some of the people quote the following saying of Imam an-Nawawi where he said regarding the one who went for Hajj and visit the grave of Rasool Allah peace be upon him

He should turn towards the face of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and make him a means for the sake of himself and also seek his intercession (shafa'at) towards reaching God. [Imam an-Nawawi in Al-Majmu', Volume No. 8, Page No. 274]

Comment: Now here He did not mentioned what should a person say at the grave for tawassul? But still they say see he said Tawassul through the Prophet peace be upon him is allowed, but let us see another quote of an-Nawawi where he mentioned How should a person make tawassul at the grave..

Explicit sayings of an-Nawawi.

a) He said regarding the one who visits the grave of Prophet peace be upon him Under the chapter

"Section regarding Visit to the grave of the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him, and the Dhikr made there"


One should say,"O Allah, open for me the doors of Your mercy, and bestow upon me, through the visit to the Grave of Your prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), that which You have bestowed upon Your friends, those who obey You. Forgive me and show me mercy, O Best of Those Asked" [Imam Nawawi in Kitab ul Adhkaar, Page No. 261]

Comment: This dhikr at the grave of Rasool Allah peace be upon him is explicit proof that an-Nawawi only allowed tawassul through the righteous deeds as visiting the grave of Prophet peace be upon him is one of the righteous deed as said by Shaykh ul Islaam Imam Ibn Taymiyyah raihmahullah

If a traveler goes to Masjid (alNabvi) then he should visit the grave of Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم rather it is from the best of actions. [Majmu'a Fatwaa Ibn Taymiyyah 27/330]

Comment: In short, an-Nawawi only allowed Jaiz type of tawassul which is against the tawassul of brailwiyah.

Imam an-Nawawi said

Whoever thinks that wiping the grave (of the Prophet) with the hand attains barakah, then this is a result of the foolishness and ignorance, because barakah is attained by following shariyah and from the sayings of scholars. How can barakah can be attain by going against shariyah? [Al Eydaah fil Manaasik page 456]

Imam an-Nawawi said regarding the athar of Umar ra and Al Abbas ra:

It is Mustahab to ask from the pious relative of Prophet peace be upon him and other pious people, The Shuyukh, The Weak ones, The Children, Old Women to ask Allah for rain, the evidence for this is mentioned by the Author. [al Majmoo Sharah al Muhzab 5/73]

These are the clear and explicit statements of Imam an-Nawawi, Brother should quote all the quotes rather than taking one quote of the scholar and challenge people of Sunnah.

The great student of Imam an-Nawawi in fiqh Qadhi Sadr ud din al Jafri also did al Istesqa through recommended sunnah [/b]other than innovative way as Ibn Kathir mentioned:

[b]This day it was announced in the city that people should fast and come to pray salat al Istesqa and read al Bukhari. The people accepted and supplicated after the sermons and prayers. And invoked to Allah in al Istasqa. When Saturday came on 15th of Safar which was 17th of April, the people of city came to masjid al qadam, Deputy of sultan and leaders also came in submission. People gathered and it was a great sight. Qadhi Sadr ud din bin Sulaiman al Jafri gave sermon and the people said Ameen to his prayers. Next day Allah with his mercy sent rain, not because of their power. People became very happy and it was rained in all the cities All praise and gratitude be to Allah alone with no partner[Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/ 112]

Note: Qadhi Sadr ud din al Jafri who prayed was student of Imam an-Nawawi in fiqh [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/142] No one went to the grave of Auliyah, or asked help from dead, neither student of an-Nawawi said we should go to the graves and ask with their waseelah.

Last but not the least, Imam an-Nawawi said right after quoting the narration of Atbi:

'Circumambulation to the grave of Prophet peace be upon him is not allowed, and it is Disliked to touch the wall of the grave with back and stomach, Abu Obaidullah al Haleemi and others said that, they said: It is disliked to touch it with hands and kissing it, Rather good manners are One should be far from the grave, as he would do if he were in the Prophet's peace be upon him lifetime. This is the right opinion, as the scholars say Do not be deceived by the practice of the many of the common folks, as the following and practice should be upon AUTHENTIC AHADEETH and the sayings of the scholars, no attention should be paid to the common folks, others and ignorants [Imam an-Nawawi in Al-Majmu', Volume No. 8, Page No. 275]

Comment: See how they hide the statements of an-Nawawi? OWN stance of Imam an-Nawawi is different from the brailwiyah


InshaAllah Read more

Brother Empiree, abeg remeber fair use o, no make some people finish reading the whole book before them buy o

I believe the Qur'anic verses already presented by the OP suffices, these are clear verses without ambiguity, tawassul is worship in itself, hence, calling others besides Allah (SWT) would only mean those you call are equal to Allah. Even when you are to use your own deeds, it is based on your sincerity to Allah (SWT) when you were performing those deeds and nothing more...

When you call Ya Ali, Ya Hussein, or you scream Sheikh Niyas and you are here in Nigeria, and there are millions of you doing that, not to mention other parts of the world, do you mean these saints and righteous slaves of Allah (SWT) are hearing all these calls at the same time and responding same?!

So instead of calling Allah (SWT), after many evidences of Allah (SWT) telling us to call him directly and he would answer, you call others who Allah (SWT) never gave permission to call, all in the guise of doing tawassul...Imagine shouting Sheikh Niyas! Instead of Ya Allah! And you think Allah (SWT) would be glad you are calling him abi?!

I am not understanding at all...

4. In the supplication that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) taught him it says: “O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me.” It is impossible to interpret this as referring to tawassul by virtue of the person or status of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), because what is meant is: O Allah, accept his (the Prophet’s) intercession for me; in other words, Accept his supplication for my vision to be restored to me. The Arabic word shafaa‘ah (translated here as intercession) means supplication. It says in Lisaan al-‘Arab (8/184): Shafaa‘ah (intercession) is the words of the shafee‘ (intercessor) to the king asking him to meet the need of someone else, or the one who asks for something for someone else and intercedes for him to get what he is seeking… End quote.

Thus it is proven that the tawassul of the blind man was only by virtue of the du‘aa’ of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), not by virtue of his person.

5. Among the things that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) taught the blind man to say was: “and accept my intercession concerning him”. What is meant is: accept my intercession, that is my supplication, that his intercession, that is his supplication that my sight be restored, be accepted. This is the only way in which this sentence can be interpreted; there is no other way of interpreting it.
Hence you see those among later generations who hold different views ignoring this last phrase and not referring to it at all, because it utterly demolishes their interpretation of the hadeeth.

6. This hadeeth is cited by the scholars as being one of the miracles of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and one of his supplications that were answered, and an example of what Allah manifested through the blessing of his supplication of extraordinary events and healing from sickness. By virtue of the Prophet’s supplication for this blind man, Allah restored his sight. Hence the scholars of hadeeth, such as al-Bayhaqi and others, narrated it among the signs of Prophethood (dalaa’il an-nubuwwah). This indicates that the reason for the healing of the blind man was the supplication of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

If the reason for the healing of the blind man was that he sought tawassul by virtue of the Prophet’s status, as it was understood by many later scholars, that would imply that this healing should also have happened for other blind people who sought tawassul by virtue of his status and sometimes added to it the status of all the Prophets and Messengers, and all the close friends of Allah, the martyrs and the righteous, and the status of anyone who has status with Allah among the angels, mankind and the jinn! But we do not know, and we do not think that anyone knows, of any such incident that was fulfilled throughout the many centuries from the death of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) until the present day.

From this explanation it becomes clear that what is meant by the words of the blind man in his du‘aa’, “O Allah, I ask You and I seek to draw close to You by virtue of Your Prophet Muhammad”, is: I seek to draw close to You by virtue of the supplication of Your Prophet. The text of the hadeeth does not mention the supplication, but it is implied. This is something that occurs commonly in Arabic, as in the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And ask (the people of) the town where we have been, and the caravan in which we returned, and indeed we are telling the truth” [Yoosuf 12:82]; in the original text the word “people” is not mentioned but it is implied.

However, I would say: Even if we assume that the blind man did seek to draw close to Allah by virtue of the Prophet’s person, that would be a ruling that applied only to him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and not to any other Prophet or righteous person, and applying it to them too is something that would not be acceptable to sound reasoning, because the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is their leader and the best of them all. It is possible that this is something that Allah bestowed exclusively upon him and not them, like many other qualities that were given only to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), according to saheeh reports. When it comes to that which was given exclusively to him, there is no room for applying it to others by analogy. If anyone thinks that the tawassul of the blind man was by virtue of the Prophet’s person, then he has to apply it to him only and not to anyone else. This view was narrated from Imam Ahmad and Shaykh al-‘Izz ibn ‘Abd as-Salaam (may Allah have mercy on them) and it is the only conclusion that can be reached by fair-minded academic research. And Allah is the One Who guides to what is correct.

End quote from at-Tawassul, p. 75ff

And Allah knows best.

Source

AlBaqir:
# Third, Muslims generally including Salafism ideology whom Newnas represent do not have problem with Tawassul of the Prophet DURING his lifetime. There are overwhelming evidences in their books of ahadith where sahabah used the Prophet, in fact, by his very command, as wasila (means) to reach Allah in their supplications and they see instant result.

For brevity, let us cite an example:

"It was narrated from 'Uthman bin Hunaif that a blind
man came to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and said:

"Pray to Allah to heal me." He (the Prophet) said: "If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you." He said: "Supplicate." So he (the Prophet) told him to perform ablution and do it well, to pray two Rak'ah, and to say this supplication:

"Allahumma lnni as'aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahma. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya (O Allah, I ask of You and I turn
my face towards You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me)" .

The conclusion of this Hadith states that the blind man has not even stand up from the prayer spot before Allah restore his sight.

* Ibn Majah, Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Hakim and others reported this Hadith to be AUTHENTIC.

"Praise be to Allaah.

Imam Ahmad and others narrated with a saheeh isnaad from ‘Uthmaan ibn Haneef that a blind man came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and said: Pray to Allah to heal me. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “If you wish, I shall pray for you; and if you wish, I shall delay that for you and that will be better for you.” [According to another report, he said: “… Or if you wish, you can be patient and that will be better for you.”] He said: Pray for me (now). So he instructed him to do wudoo’ and do it well, then to pray two rak‘ahs and say this du‘aa’ (supplication): “O Allah, I ask You and I turn to You by virtue of Your Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I turn by virtue of you to my Lord concerning this need of mine, that it might be met for me. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me and accept my intercession concerning him.” So the man did that and he was healed.

Some people are confused by this hadeeth and think that it constitutes evidence for some innovated types of tawassul (seeking to draw close to Allah), but that is not the case. This misinterpretation of this hadeeth has been answered by many of the scholars, who explained that it does not constitute evidence for any of those who believe in innovated kinds of tawassul, whether that is by virtue of the Prophet’s person or by virtue of his status, let alone tawassul by virtue of the dead and calling upon them instead of Allah. One of the best precise and academic responses concerning this issue is that which was written by the great scholar Shaykh Muhammad Naasir ad-Deen al-Albaani in his book at-Tawassul Anwaa‘uhu wa Ahkaamuhu (available in English under the title Tawassul: Its Types and Its Rulings).
Among the comments that he made on this hadeeth is the following:

As for us, we believe that this hadeeth does not constitute evidence for them to support seeking to draw closer to Allah (tawassul) by virtue of the Prophet’s person; rather it constitutes further evidence for the third type of lawful tawassul – which is tawassul through the du‘aa’ (supplication) of a righteous man – because the tawassul of the blind man was only by means of the du‘aa’ of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) (and not by virtue of his person). The evidence for what we say is to be found in the hadeeth itself, in abundance.

The most important points are as follows:

1. The blind man only came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) to ask him to pray for him; that was when he said: Pray to Allah to heal me. This is seeking to draw closer to Allah (tawassul) by virtue of his du‘aa’, because he knew that the du‘aa’ of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was more likely to be accepted by Allah, unlike the du‘aa’ of anyone else. If the blind man’s intention was to draw close to Allah by virtue of the Prophet’s person or his status, there would have been no need for him to come to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and ask him to offer du‘aa’ for him; rather he could have stayed at home and called upon his Lord by saying, for example: O Allah, I ask You by virtue of Your Prophet and His status before You to heal me and give me my sight. But he did not do that.

2. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) promised to offer supplication (du‘aa’) for him whilst advising him of that which would be better for him, which is when he said: “If you wish, I shall pray for you; and if you wish, you can be patient and that will be better for you.”

3. The blind man insisted that he offer supplication for him, as he said: Pray for me (now). This implies that the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did offer supplication for him, because he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was the best one in fulfilling promises, and he had promised him that he would offer supplication for him if he wanted, as stated above. So there is no doubt that he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) offered supplication for him. Thus what the blind man wanted was done. After that, the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) turned towards the blind man out of compassion towards him and out of keenness that Allah answer his supplications for this man. So he turned to him and advised him of the second type of lawful tawassul, which is tawassul by virtue of righteous deeds, so as to combine all kinds of good and righteous deeds (to ensure that his need would be met). So he instructed him to do wudoo’ and to pray two rak‘ahs, then to offer supplication for himself. These are all acts of obedience towards Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, that came before the supplication of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) for him, and these are included in the words of the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Seek the means of approach to Him” [al-Maa’idah 5:35], as stated above.

Based on this, the entire incident revolves around the supplication (du‘aa’) – as is clear – and there is no mention at all of what they claim."

...

AlBaqir:


# Of course, even according to the law of nature, anyone that fights you should be fight back.


# There is nowhere your Ibn Taymiyyah is talking about that, or "no compulsion in religion" or tolerance of other faith or view. He is clear in his statements:

* So, everyone who knows about the call of the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, to the religion of Allāh which he was sent with, but does not answer him, it is obligatory to fight him until there is no more sedition and religion becomes for Allāh Alone."

* Whoever turns away from the book (Qur'an), kill them

* The Sufi, the Rafidha etc, where ever you find them, kill them.

Like I said, Ibn Taymiyyah is found of using verses out of context in his weird rulings.


# Hijaz and Iraq was never a land of Mushriqun at the time of Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab (an Ibn Taymiyyah diehard adherent). Majority of people there were Sufi, Shia, Maliki Sunni etc. Ibn Abdulwahab's mission was spreading "the right Tawheed" and he waged "holy Jihad" on them. The rest is history. This is what Ibn Taymiyyah was talking about.

Bros, Sheikh Ibn Taymiyah clearly stated in the opening of the quote thus:"The punishments brought by the Sharī’ah for those who disobey Allāh and His Messenger are of two types: the punishment of the one who is overpowered – whether a single individual or a group – as previously discussed; and the second type is the punishment of the stubborn group, like the one which cannot be overpowered except through fighting..."

When you read "stubborn" group, what comes to your mind?! Are Boko Haram stubborn groups or not?! Should Nigeria had left them alone to continue to propagate themselves unchecked?! Are they not causing sedition in the land?! So what is wrong with the Sheikh's submission again?!

Allah (SWT) says:
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled." (Q9:29).

If it was Ibn Taymiyah that made the above statement, you would have started your epistles about how he is the brain behind terrorism and all what not. Of course the above verse do have proper explanation, especially when you read further to verse 32, which clearly states the reason to fight these people, everyone of them, including those given scriptures, based on the fact that they want to annihilate Islam and Muslims! This is what Ibn Taymiyah was restating, and he based his fatwa on the Shari'ah, not his own personal opinion.

See, all that story of hijaz this Ibn Abdul Wahab is stale, I just showed you have misrepresented Ibn Taymiyyah' position, by quoting him wrongly, and this is what ignorant people do, especially non-Muslims and the so called "Islamic" terrorist.

AlBaqir:


# First, I am not treating the surah Anfal:38-39 rather my concern is the submission of Ibn Taymiyyah. Due to his fanatical beliefs, he had used several ayah to justify his rulings even if the context of the ayah is different.


# In short your problem is the translation of the word "fitnah" to "sedition". Am I correct or you still have other ranting?


# Your Mufassir are of different opinions here:

1. Some interpreted the word "fitnah" to "shrik (polytheism)". And of course, your belief remain that all other religions except Islam practice shrik in one form or the other.


2. Muhammad bin Ishaq said that he was informed from Az-Zuhri, from `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr and other scholars that (until there is no more Fitnah) the Fitnah mentioned here means, until no Muslim is persecuted so that he abandons his religion. Ad-Dahhak reported that Ibn `Abbas said abou said about
Allah's statement,

(and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone.) "So
that Tawhid is practiced in sincerity with Allah.'' Al-Hasan,
Qatadah and Ibn Jurayj said,

(and the religion will all be for Allah alone) "So that La ilaha
illa-llah is proclaimed.'


# So, what is "sedition" if not this second interpretation?!

You got it all wrong! The verses quoted are the same as Ibn Taymiyah's submission, the fact that there is no compulsion in religion, does not stop Muslims from fighting those who after their disbelieve, cause fitnah! It is that simple! No need for quoting all what not to understand the information here!

AlBaqir:

Of course its a beautiful thread which I voiced out but overwhelming evidences of the "concept of Jihad" as explained by Muslim's scholars especially the Salafi do not help this kind of thread.

# By the time Non-muslims start questioning, you people will do what you know best, abusing.

You voiced or or went on a ranting spree?!

I have just shown your folly above, which means, you, the terrorists, and the ignorant non-Muslims, are one and the same with respect to understanding information from the Qur'an and works of classical scholars!

And for the record, I don't do abuse, I only state facts!

lanrexlan:
Ameen Wa anta fajazakallah khairan dear akhee.

I am still learning. You are a mentor sir, just treading your noble footsteps.


Ameen thumma Ameen.

Ma sha Allah, may Allah grant us His tawfiiq ameen.

AlBaqir:
^^^

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah says in his Majmū’ al-Fatāwā, vol. 28, p. 349:

"The punishments brought by the Sharī’ah for those who
disobey Allāh and His Messenger are of two types: the
punishment of the one who is overpowered – whether a
single individual or a group – as previously discussed; and
the second type is the punishment of the stubborn group,
like the one which cannot be overpowered except through
fighting. The root of this is the jihād against the disbelievers, the enemies of Allāh and His Messenger. So, everyone who knows about the call of the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, to the religion of Allāh which he was sent with, but does not answer him, it is obligatory to fight him until there is no more sedition and religion becomes for Allāh Alone."
http://islamport.com/d/3/tym/1/40/375.html

Allah (SWT) says in the Qur'an:

"Say to those who have disbelieved [that] if they cease, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return [to hostility] - then the precedent of the former [rebellious] peoples has already taken place.

And fight them until there is no fitnah (translated to sedition in the above quoted post) and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do."

(Surah 8:38-39)

Now if I say you are ignorant and lack proper understanding of the Qur'an, e go be like say I dey insult you...

A beautiful thread that ought to be supported with proper information with regards to the Prophet's tolerance and mercy, but you want to turn to another thing because of your ignorance!

Jazakallahu khairan habiby for sharing your poems, I must say, you are getting really good at this, may Allah ( SWT ) grant you more from His divine treasures ameen.

^^^Jazakallahu khairan habiby for sharing your poems, I must say, you are getting really good at this, may Allah ( SWT ) grant you more from His divine treasures ameen.

AlBaqir:



# Point of correction, and please let it sink down for the record. I do not have any argument for gay. My points is more of effeminates which I believe could lead to been gay or lesbian. I believe they need help.


# Second, I challenge you and whoever, to bring Allah's explicit punishment (hadd) on "homosexuality". Please am sick of the people of Nuh. That is an entire qawm, and it took a long donkey years before Allah wiped them off when they persisted in their sin. Today, in Islamic countries, the punishment for homosexuality varies due to different ijtihad. What your hadith says is " if you caught them in the act, bring them out and kill them". Some choose beheading, some choose burning alive, some even go to the extent of passing red-hot iron via. their anus and leave them to die via bleeding (e.g Iraq), etc.


Today, I as an individual still challenge you all on stoning to death where the accused will be buried half-way to the waist, tied up and stoned to death. Qur'an mentions punishment for Zina, where's your "stoning to death"?


# As per your beloved Umar Ibn al-Khattab, you should never be the one asking me evidence. Not you. Have you finished your research yet on our little last dialogue where you pull away for time to research? I remember how " shut up" all of you were when I posted the way Umar used to treat female slaves, they dare not wearing hijab, and they walk in his yard serving guest with their hairs and breas.t waggling. These are your ahadith not mine. Yet, the diehard among you will try to defend what is not. Wallahi you don't want to see records I have on your beloved master Umar.

Ali (ra) as recorded in your book and presented by you, established that death penalty is the hadd from the Prophet (SAW), regardless of the drama at the end of the narration, it does not change this fact, of course, except you would say the narration is a fabrication...

Secondly, I usually wonder how anyone could still take you as being a responsible Muslim after you spew such balderdash! I had refuted your lies and yet you would still repeat the same lies all over again! For the record, Hijab is meant for believing women, slaves and freeborn, and not for non-Muslims, and the narration is originally stated that their hairs were uncovered touching their bossom.

From the fact that you people do not study the Qur'an properly in your hawzah, it is no wonder you keep making several blunders with regards to proper understanding of Qur'anic verses, how then would you even understand aahadith which you approach with fault finding and perverted intentions?!

AlBaqir:


# All those salafs interpretations are their own understanding. None of them quoted Nabi. And they did that based on what they know and what they see. That's why they themselves do not have a uniform interpretations. Unfortunately, none of them made mention of effeminates (male) which I made mention of. You don't see them attracted to women. These people have tendency of becoming gay.

Na wa o, you brought up the word mukhanath, the narration from Aisha (ra) stated that it was a mukhanath that was not allowed to enter upon the wives of the Prophet (SAW) again when the mukhanath started describing the features of a woman, yet you are here saying that the salaf never made mention of effeminate?! What is mukhanath?! And well done with avoiding clear facts as presented in my post...

It is the brainwashing of the west that makes you think effeminate tend towards becoming gay, just as once a guy wears pink, you start suspecting him to be gay or if he is too emotional or too shy! Being effeminate does not mean you are homosexual or you have tendency to be gay!

Also if gays are only attracted to males, then what would sex change solve?! A straight guy wouldn't go for a tranny to marry, and a gay is not attracted to women (remember?!). So who is fooling who?! That is the tragedy as captured on this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/3213034/tragedy-sex-change-iran-aftermath

I ask again, what interpretation do you seek AlBaqir?!

AlBaqir:
Empiree, you should by now know the likes of MrOlai, Demmzy15 are who they are in their mentality. Sometimes they don't f.ucking care about your point. They simply want to distort to make a cheap point and present you as the bad guy. That's how desperate they could be. If you don't know that of Demmzy15, you should know that of MrOlai. Unfortunately, the person that started the campaign was sino before all of them went into stup.id orgy. Anyway, I don't bother my head about them.


# First, it seem to me that when we say “homosexual”, your first understanding has always been “the sex.ual act” itself. My points has always been centered on those people itself. The act of homosexuality is 100% forbidden in Islam and in fact the severest punishment for it in Shi’a fiqh is burning alive. However, throughout my campaign here, I see these people (of lost or hidden or misunderstood identity) as people that need help ranging from medical, psychological and spiritual help.


THE AYAH: (men who do not have sex.ual desire
# Like I said, the ayah is open to interpretations for there is no direct interpretation of it from Nabi. Let's start from Ibn Kathir:

(Tabi`in among men who do not have desire,) such as hired servants and followers who are not at the same level as the woman and are feeble-minded and have no interest in or desire for women.

Ibn `Abbas said, "This is the kind of person who has no desire.'' `Ikrimah said, "This is the hermaphrodite, who does not experience erections.'' This was also the view of others among the Salaf. It was narrated in the Sahih from `A'ishah that a hermaphrodite, used to enter upon the family of the Messenger of Allah and they used to consider him as one of those who do not have desire, but then the Messenger of Allah came in when he was describing a woman with four rolls of fat in front and eight behind. The Messenger of Allah said,

(Lo! I think this person knows what is they are; he should never enter upon you.) He expelled him, and he stayed in Al-Bayda' and only came on Fridays to get food.
www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2430&Itemid=79


# Now, I have initially exposed through a hadith in sahih Bukhari that the Muslim community then have effeminates among them, in their houses. So, let's take a look at the meaning of the Effeminates:

The mukhannath, according to later Muslim lexicographers, mostly identify “as a man who resembles or imitates a woman in the languidness of his limbs or the softness of his voice” (Rowson, , p. 673). Mukhannaths, therefore, are people who are born with male sex organs. This was also the understanding of the term held by the early Muslim lexicographers who believed that the term mukhannath was derived from khanatha, which means "to fold back the mouth of a waterskin for drinking.” Therefore, “mukhannathun were so called on account of their languidness … while a languid woman was called khunuth .” (Rowson, , pp. 672–673). Though this meaning of mukhannath somehow concurs with prophetic traditions (hadiths ), it is not the same as hadith's description of the term. Therefore, some other Muslim lexicographers, such as al-Khalil b. Ahmad (d.c.170/786) in Kitab al-Ayn, believe mukhannath derives from khuntha , or hermaphrodite/intersex, on the basis of parallel gender ambiguity (Al-Khalil, , No. 4, p. 248; Rowson, , p. 673). According to the latter, a mukhannath is a hermaphrodite/intersex person and, therefore, would be categorized in that group. But, according to the former meaning of the term, mukhannath is a male with effeminate behavior. Therefore, it “does not explicitly describe sexual organs, sexual behaviours, or sexual orientation” (Kugle, , p. 241). Later on, in medieval times, mukhanath also came to be used for those persons who took on a passive role in same-sex acts (Rowson, 1991, p. 693).


# So, in one word, EFFEMINATES are men in their physical identity as “man” but mentally, psychologically, feeling-wise and touching-wise etc they are “women”. This is not habit they develop over the course of time rather they were born as such. These people do not have sex.ual desires for women (because they are one of them, batini (inner) wise). They are only attracted to men, as male-female natural attraction/affections. This, society generalized it “homosexuals” together with those that developed it as an habit, or involved in it due to the so-called free society, or involve in it for ritual purposes etc. I think that generalization is cruel. The one I have explained via effeminates deserve to be look into for it is a medical problem per se.


# Sheik al-Tantawi (al-shafi'i) former Mufti of al-Azhar, Egypt and Imam Ruhullah Khomeini, both passed fatawa on the sex-transgender surgery on people with such case (effeminates). The point however is that you can never appreciate their fatwas except you read what actually lead to the fatawa. Then, how did both derive their judgement and approval going by the fact that there is no direct rulings in the Quran and hadith?



I implore you guys, sino, Demmzy15, MrOlai, ikupakuti and whoever wish to read this comprehensive report (below). It is written by M. Alipour in the International Journal of Transgenderism, 2017.
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2016.1250239

Nobody has passed fatwa on killing effeminates, and it seems we are all overlooking that we have lesbians too. Anyways, if you were not trying to smuggle homosexuals into the Qur'an, what then are you trying to interpret the verse in question to mean?! I asked you for clarification, but you didn't respond. You keep saying it is open to interpretation. And it is even good you had done some research, at least you can see what interpretation that was given and said to be what the salafs to understood the verse to mean.

Secondly, homosexuality is already established as a sin in the Qur'an, and was the reason for the destruction of the people of Lut (as). Considering this singular issue, makes the verse in question to be sealed! And for the avoidance of doubt, Allah (SWT) states in the Qur'an:

And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds?

Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people." (Q 7:80-81)

Again:

"Do you approach males among the worlds.

And leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing."( Q 26:165-166)

Also:

"Do you indeed approach men with desire instead of women? Rather, you are a people behaving ignorantly." (Q 27: 55)

These verses above makes it crystal clear that it is impossible for the verse in question be interpreted to anything relating to men desiring only men sexually! This thread is about Muslim gay getting married, a clearly sinful and punishable act which is being celebrated, and you are here going back and forth, looking for open interpretation and all what not.

Thirdly, with regards fatwas, there is another thread were the adverse effect of such fatwa as passed by Khomeini was revealed, you should go watch the videos on the thread.

Lastly, homosexual and wanting a sex change are two different things entirely, gays are men who want to have sex with men with their genitals and anus, which is haram!

ikupakuti:


@ the bolded, thats even by the way!

Its the same albaqir that related how Imam ali (ra) single handedly “overrule“ a decree made by GOD & his prophet (saw) by pardoning a confessed sodomite out of “mercy“ discountenancing Q33:36 by claiming GOD has forgiving him. Is that a new WAHY-l-TASHR‘I or what ?
If it were Sayyidna Umar (ra) that was alleged to have done that, only GOD know the amount of skyscraping posts he would have created to sentence him.

Bros you go fear narration as contained in the shi'a books o, but funny enough, the narration did not excuse homosexuality as a sin, and still punishment by death (by the Prophet (SAW) ) is also established! So what is then the issue here?!

And if it was Umar (ra), ha just forget it, we no go here word again, ordinary tayyamum issue, AlBaqir was all over the place claiming this and that about Umar (ra).

AlBaqir, is the ruling of Ali (ra) a new law that allows the no death sentence for homosexuals?! Mind you, the Imams are known to be followers of Prophet Muhammad's (SAW) shari'ah o....