lanrexlan:
You are fond of shifting goalpost, it is your calling. You will NEVER agree you are wrong when cornered. You made a bogus claim that Quran is plagiarism, Sino went ahead to define plagiarism for you, prove to you that Quran isn't a plagiarized book cos it acknowledged the books before it whom they share similar stories. Instead of you to admit you goofed and corrected yourself, you are here digressing and making silly claims.

Tintingz, is it hard for you to say that "I am sorry, I made a mistake, Quran is not a plagiarized book. But I have another question, can you prove to me that Quran is the revelation from God? " That's how intelligent people dialogue!

Can't you admit you made bogus claims? This is not your first time or second time of doing the same. Trust me, that's not how knowledgeable people do. true2god is also accusing of the same thing on another thread. If you aren't sincere with yourself, how can you be sincere with others?


NB; I don't take you serious anymore. You are just a confused clown to me.

How dare you want a whole atheist tintingz to apologize for turning logic on its head?! Please let him keep looking for what is not lost, when I get him time small, I go reply...

Saucyxo:


.

The act of child abuse is different from pedophilia. You can be attracted to kids (which many muslim grown men are) making you a pedophile and do nothing about it and also be a molester and a child abuser which is the molestation and abuse of a child (anyone below 18 or the legal age of consent). Similar to how you can have thoughts about stealing but you're not a thief until you actually steal. Thats what Empiree is being accused of supporting, child molestation/abuse.

Islam mandates anyone getting married to be mature? A 14 year old boy that doesn't have a job and is being financially and emotionally supported by his parents when hes meant to be a guardian for a woman is mature?

Age of consent as dictated by society has seen a couple of changes, now that 18 is said to be the age of consent in Nigeria and some other places doesn't mean it is the standard that each society/country must adhere to! If a child at 14 commits a crime, no society would say let's leave him/her alone, they are just children, rather they create avenues in correcting the child depending on the gravity of the crime, and in some cases, they are even tried in court as adults!

Pedophilia is also child molestation and abuse, and Islam does not in anyway encourages this! Marriage is lawful between mature individuals, who agree to marry and not forced! What if the 14 year old child wants to get married?! No?! But you agree she can have a boyfriend or girlfriend?! And have sex?! I have already pointed it out that maturity as depicted in Islam entails more than just having a monthly period or wet dreams, it involves understanding you are responsible for your actions as it affects your life and more importantly, your hereafter!

Saucyxo:

You wrote a lovely summary on the movement of the addition of P to the LGBTQ+ agenda. Great. There are people who are sexual deviants. If you were actually interested in the topic, rather than using it for a counter argument then, you'd find it irrelevant to the topic at hand. There are women and men who find it sexually arousing to be beaten, raped, defecated on, urinated on, choked. There are men who find it sexually arousing to be locked using a chastity belt. There are men and women who find sexual pleasure in KILLING women. Theres are terms usually end in phillia to indicate unnatural behaviour towards sex. The second you kill someone for sex, you stop being a necrophile and you start being a murderer! The second someone that is sexually attracted to children touches a child ( anyone below 18 or below the legal of consent) they start being a child molester. The united nations law, after extensive research on the ability of the mature mind has named anyone below the age of 18 a child.

Anyone who promotes or advocates for the sexual contact of a child and an adult, is promoting child molestation. If grammatical wording is your issue. Also, in the study of the CHILDREN that are being married by the United nations. Only 1 in 25 men are actually below the age of 18 and 0.3% of them are below 15.

Of course I mentioned my digression to point out the fact that all these sexual orientations being bandied about are "diseases" that should require proper attention, rather than finding excuses of genetics or that is the way they are and not their choice!

Definitions are important, I had been reading how people on here have been claiming one is a pedophile or supporting pedophilia which is wrong! I do not have an issue with the UN claiming anyone below 18 is a child, but in the recent past, this was not the case as even in Nigeria, most of our grandparents especially females marry below the age of 18! Wouldn't it be foolhardy to claim your grandparents where child abusers and molesters?!

Saucyxo:

You sit and think about the psychology of a child. One that is easily influencable. Not only that, you act as if a large majority of these little girls and boys are asking to be married. They rarely come to their parents and say they want to marry a 40 year old due to risk of fornication. These children are at high health risk. They are DYING. A 14 year old girl that is in the care of her 40 year old husband. Neither of them understand how to take care of women after childbirth. These little girls DIE. Like have you no soul?

As I have mentioned previously, culture and traditions differ, societies abound with their own ways and norms, a 14 year old in Lekki phase 1 is different from a 14 year old in Mushin Ajina! That is just in Lagos o! A lot of teenage boys in Lagos that are less than 18 are working and earning money, most of them are into cultism and you know what, they all have girlfriends of same age bracket having sex, some are already having children!

The cases of VVF and its attendant issues as much to do with poor health care system and the state of the economy, the age of the mother could be a risk factor, but it isn't the cause! Secondly, in cultures where they marry early, they usually have a support system especially from extended family in taking care of the mother and child...Of course the government in those areas where this is rife are partnering with international organisations in improving the primary health care, as well as awareness, even against early marriage.

tintingz:
Wow, so ghost can write books.

Have we left plagiarism to talk about ghost writers?!

Cheers01:


It is you who sees a win-lose situation, I only adapted to your stance.

In fact, you are contradicting yourself. You are now asking for pluralism- various laws complementing each other. But I thought you believed that sharia is Gods law? The sharia is perfect?

Your Muslim brethren will not be happy with you. How can you put secular law and sharia law on equal footing.


Checkmate bro.

Yeah right, I have mentioned earlier that Islam did not come to abolish peoples culture and traditions, rather the filth in them! In an Islamic society, the good and acceptable culture and traditions of the people are well integrated, and the Shariah is the supreme law of the land! Any law that is to be made in an Islamic country must pass through the rigorous scrutiny under the instruments of the shari'ah! If there is no prohibition in the shari'ah, then there is no problem in adopting it as a law.

tintingz:


So the Qur'an was written by a Ghost?

Assume you present this case in a court and see how ridiculous you will sound.

It doesn't matter if the author is a GHOST, provided that the GHOST, ACKNOWLEDGED other BOOKS which were also authored by the GHOST, there is no case of PLAGIARISM!

Cheers01:


Is this an admission that secular law is better than Islamic law?

You know that Islamic law does not prescribe an age for consent which then leads to all manner of abuse- marrying 11 year old girls.


Note that as you cannot make a blanket statement condemning marriages under 18 universally, you are also admitting that you have no argument against men who fight for their right to marry 14 year olds in countries like Saudi Arabia.


Funny enough, Saudi is contemplating to set an age of consent to be 18 Years old in 2019. What a shame. They are considering changing their Islamic stance for hundreds of years due to international and western pressure.


In short, Secular law 1 Sharia law 0

In your worldview, you can only see a win-loose situation, never a win-win!

Islam acknowledges the dynamism of the human society, so makes laws which accommodates the ever dynamic society while not compromising on its fundamentals!

While I acknowledge the changes in our society, I also acknowledge the fact there are differences, and would rather advocate for changes if need be, that are not against the moral dictates of Islam!

So it really doesn't matter the age, for perhaps in a decade or more, things might change, and we would need to review the marriageable age again!

tintingz:


I've edited my post, here I what add.

Acknowledging the authors is different from using characters of the people in the story. Muhammad didn't acknowledge the authors or source of the Qur'an, no where he said I got my knowledge to write the Qur'an from this so so so person instead he said it was revealed to him from his imaginary master.

Lol, as I said, The Prophet (SAW) never claimed to be the author of the Qur'an, the Qur'an, acknowledged previous books, which are also revelations from God!

tintingz:


So basically if I write a book that contains contents and ideas of other people's books and claim this my book is a revelation from my imaginary friend. It's not plagiarism?

But I had defined what plagiarism is na....

Cheers01:



Even when the national law is clear that the age for marriage 18, you are still speaking from both sides of your mouth in order not to condemn the marriage of underage girls.


Unlike you, I can categorically state that under no circumstances should a 50 year old man marry a girl under 18 years old.

But you on the other hand have no respect for a national law that is quite universal both in Europe and America. Marriage is a contract and so, only those over 18 as adults can engage in it.

You are funny, did you not know that stating that culture and traditions differ, covers a national law?! When Nigeria Prohibited homosexuals, where did you think the laws emanated from?! I do not need to go into what marriageable ages are in different countries, my statement makes it simple and covers what is obtainable anywhere in the world!

Islam doesn't go against the national law, as do I, but it would be naive of me to start making blanket statements for a specific age when Islam never did!

tintingz:


Christmas-ideals is the last book and revelation from Santa and it make acknowledgement of other previous Santa books.

See how ridiculous you sound.

On the contrary my friend, you are the ridiculous one here, while you haven't been able to proof plagiarism as defined, you are now clutching at straws, making remarks about your imaginary friend Santa! Did you not get the name of the author of the book you mentioned?! Was it by Santa?! And if the author acknowledged other Santa books, does that translate to plagiarism?!

Cheers01:
Okay, let's not argue too much. The original issue was Muslim men marrying underage girls.

There are clerics who state that in Islam, once a girl has reached puberty, she is ready for marriage. Girls reach puberty as early as 11 years old.

Yerima married a 14 year old. Many southerners, including myself have seen how teenage girls are married to.older men in the North.


Can you guys categorically state that it is immoral for a grown man (not even 18 but 50 years old) to marry girls of 11 to 15 years of age?


Sino, Empiree Lanrexlan, Rilwayne001. Please, answer this question. It is very simple.

First a girl reaching puberty means that she isn't prepubescent, hence, it cannot be classified as pedophilia

Secondly, my guy Lanre had hinted to you as I also had done that what is stipulated is that maturity of the candidates getting married, which entails more than just having a period or having wet dreams. I had stated being responsible for own actions as well as the cultural and traditional qualifications which are not disputed in Islam. Of course, there are more criteria for getting married, especially for the man.

Thirdly, to put it simply, for culture and traditions do differ, hence, what is sacrosanct in Islam is that the female and male getting married must be 'matured' amongst other things!

Please note, in Islam, health issues such as VVF can be considered if well proven that giving birth at such age predisposes the mother to such ailment, although there is the option of C.S., and proper nutrition and prenatal clinics to prevent this....

lanrexlan:
Aameen wa antum fajazakumullah khairan akhee.

I quite agree with you, if these issues are mental illness, then they deserve to be cured. What I am against is telling us that these things are natural and we should deal with it. Some will justify their claims with "If it is not natural, why do animals engage in it? " What kind of silly justification is this?! I was reading an article of recent where scientists said that "There is nothing like gay genes".

Non-binary?! This is rubbish these people want us to follow and agree to all in the name of "freedom". Everyone will always try to justify their practice cos we are in "a free world". Allah has said in His glorious book Surah Al-Anaam, 6:116
وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِي الْأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَخْرُصُونَ

And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie.


May Allah plant our feet firmly on His path

@bold, this verse comes to mind;

"We have certainly created man in the best of stature;

Then We return him to the lowest of the low,

Except for those who believe and do righteous deeds, for they will have a reward uninterrupted" (Qur'an 95: 4-6)

People come up with a lot of silly things just because of fame, money etc. All because of this dunya!

Allahuma ameen to your dua'a.

tintingz:
Ok

Can he prove the author he received the revelation from? Can this claim be used in court?

I can also claim my book said it is Santa's word.

Lol, circular reasoning fallacy.

Making mention of these prophets name in stories is different from acknowledging the authors or source.

If Muhammad had said my knowledge and source of writing this Qur'an is from the Jewish texts not from his imaginary master then there's no case of plagiarism

Their books differ in mythologies.

Anybody can use God in their story just like anybody can use Santa in their story, my argument is the content and idea of these stories.



How can you prove that the God of the Jews is connected to God of Muhammad?

Something like i wrote a book using ideas of past dead authors and said my book was revealed to me by Santa the same Santa revealed it to the dead authors. How's this a case in the court or even sound logical?

I do not care if you do not accept what is explicitly stated in the books in question with regards to the author, but what is established about these books, is that they are divinely revealed.

Secondly, the Qur'an which is the final revelation made adequate acknowledgement of previous books, and from the definition I presented, it clearly shows that the Qur'an as a revelation doesn't fit into what you would call plagiarism!

lanrexlan:
Wa alaykum salaam warahmatulah wabarokatuh dear mentor . Thanks for your inputs akhee. How's Hajia? May Allah uphold us upon goodness.

You are welcome bro, and hajia is doing great ma sha Allah, Allahuma ameen. Jazakumullah khayran.

lanrexlan:

I fully understand your post akhee, paedophilia is between an adult man/woman and a girl/boy that is 13 years or younger. Sex between boys and girls of the same age group can't be regarded as paedophilia and that's what I am trying to say. Islam NEVER encourages that

My definition wasn't really directed at you per se, but I do agree with you.

lanrexlan:

I guess there is a mix-up somewhere. Intimacy between A MAN and A CHILD is indeed paedophilia. While intimacy between two teens or prepubescent isn't paedophilia rather it can be regarded as underage sex. I guess you mixed up the two.

My post isn't taking about the ideal situation for whom supposed to get married. I quite agree with you in its entirety that a male and female going into marriage must be of a responsible age and a level of maturity. That's the ideal situation. But in our society which is not ideal and prepubescent kids are having sex like "tomorrow no dey". What's the solution?


There are two things:
1) The best is to tame these kids and be mindful of what they are exposed to it. Keep them in good environment that would tame their desires and will make them learn and have less relation with the opposite sex. That's why it is good to have separate schools for boys and girls and interactions between them should be for what's necessary and required. Teach them about the ethics of Islam as regards to no shaking hands with opposite sex, no seclusion with the opposite sex, etc. This is the best.


2) The extreme situation: One notices that his kid is already seeing females and the person seems not to have control over the kid again (one can't control kids in what they do in private). He fears that the kid will fornicate and give birth out of wedlock. The kid might be young getting married but is getting married to a kid of his/her age not better than fornication and having a bastard as a child?

We have to choose the lesser of two evils and to me, it is better to marry such a kid (what I meant by a kid is 14years and above) to the person he/she is already seeing than letting the fornication to continue. This is not paedophilia cos they are in the same age range. Some might call it underage marriage and that's why I was explicit with what I meant by "getting them married". I quite explain that.

Lemme relate a short story. There was this sister (I can't quite recall her age, maybe 16 or 17 years), she told her father that she wanna marry. The father said NO that she is still young for marriage. The sister woke up in the middle of the night and went to her parents and said "Father, if you don't get me married by so and so date, I will commit fornication". This scared the father and next week after she said that, they got her married to the guy she wanted and the parents supported them till they both finished school. (This scenario might not be perfect but it's a glimpse to the fact that "getting them married" is better than fornication)

That's what I am driving at.

Of course I agree with you, teenager shouldn't be involved in any kind of romantic relationship, but it is definitely better if they can get married rather than doing boyfriend and girlfriend which is actually being encouraged in our society...

lanrexlan:

Gbammest, this is the definition. Adults who are attracted to younger girls. Note that word "Adults"


SubhanAllah! I was watching a Ted talk the other day where a lady was supporting paedophiles and she requested that they should be treated with love and care as it is a disorder. This is evil these folks are inviting us too, from homosexuals to paedophiles. Sooner or later, they will another scientific research for rapists, those who commit bestiality and the likes.

But the defence of these folks is that these things are natural cos animals do it too! What heck of stupidity is that?!

I am of the opinion that some of these issues are purely a case of mental illness, looking at it from this angle, I can agree to rather expend energy in seeking cure/solution rather than seeking for excuses to accept their queer behaviours...Recently, an artist said he is having conflicts with his gender, they are called non-binary, they do not want to be classified either as a male or female, and some people think it is ok?! I jus tire mehn!

lanrexlan:

That's true.


Even these guys know that they don't make sense with their assertions most times but as Rilwayne001 said, it is just to massage their atheistic egos and feel like they are intelligent. Whereas, they are just intellectual squatters.

True words bro, true words!

tintingz:


The Qur'an is an evidence of the plagiarism. Almost all the stories in the Quran are rip-off of Jewish mythologies from Adam story to Jesus story which existed before Muhammad was born. A work like that is plagiarism.

Secondly, The Gog and Magog story in the Qur'an is a plagiarism of Alexander Romance.

Trust me you don't want to go down this road, I have a thread for this.

"Plagiarism is presenting another person’s ideas, words, artwork or inventions as your own, as well as using or modifying the work of others without acknowledgement.

Plagiarism can include sharing work, resubmitting work you have previously submitted to another course (self-plagiarism), and not acknowledging sources used. It can occur intentionally or unintentionally. In either case, it’s not acceptable at university."

© The University of Auckland

First, The Prophet (SAW) never claimed to be the author of the Qur'an, rather he received revelations...

Secondly, the Qur'an stated that it is God's words (speech)

Thirdly, the Qur'an acknowledged previous books, making reference to them when mentioning these stories of the Prophets you listed.

Fourthly, other books also acknowledges God as the Creator and Revealer of revelations

Fifthly, So if God revealed other books and also the Qur'an, and do acknowledge his other works in the current revelation, how does that become plagiarism?!

lanrexlan:
How did you see me? I was just passing by.

Firstly, it is unfair twisting Empiree's words, he NEVER supported paedophiles and you know that, just trying to make issues where there is none. But I am not really surprised anyways, it is Logicboy


My stance:
In an ideal society, a 14 years old girl should be in school learning. But unfortunately, we live a highly sexualized (hyper-sexualized) society where everywhere you turn to is about sex and sex. Sex is being promoted every single corner of the world, from billboards to even selling a soap of N100.


Teenagers of today have high sexual drive and they are more inclined towards sex. So, what's the solution? Unfortunately, you haven't procured any solution on how to curb underage sex among teenagers. All those sex education doesn't work. What some are teaching is playing safe and if turns sour to pregnancy, some will encourage abortion. Islam doesn't support "playing safe" for unwedded people cos that's fornication, abortion too is haram. This is a parting line between us, you don't regard those things as fornication or sin.



If a 14 years old girl is already "lambaing" and "lamoshuaging", it is better to "get her married" to the 14/15 years old boy whom they are committing the act together (Paedophilia is marriage of underage girls to older men). When I say "get her married", I don't mean living together as husband and wife. Indeed, they may be young for the traumas and emotionally aspect of marriage and fending for themselves. But by "being married ", they would at least they will have a means to fulfill their urges naturally and lawfully.


This means that both parents will meet and know themselves (as in-laws and fulfil the necessary things for marriage), these teens are permitted to see one another when due and if pregnancy sets in, the girl won't become a baby mama as she is married to the boy. The parents would support them financially and emotionally till they can stand on their feet.

The benefits are:

1) No multiple sex partners.
2) No denying of the pregnancy.
3) No stigmatization for getting pregnant. (especially in this part of the world, Nigeria)
4) No fear of STDs.


Is that not better than sleeping around and getting pregnant, having children from fornication? Ooh, you are an atheist and you have no standards for morals (sorry if I sound offensive). Your brain is your yardstick for morals and values, that's why you can't see anything wrong with fornication and having children outside wedlock.


But imagine a 14 years old girl already having 15 bfs before clocking 20 and they all have sampled her honeypot, what's the dignity in that? (Same with boys) What is the dignity in sleeping around with different girls/boys? Ooh, sorry you are an atheist and everyone is free to do anything they like with their bodies since they aren't hurting others! Zero morals!!!


Bottomline is, as a Muslim parent, if one can get their kids tamed and curbed them from this menace of fornication, that's the best. But if one can't, it is better to "get my kid married" than fornicating under my roof! QED

Assalam alaykum brother mine, well said, although I believe we must first have clear definitions of terms before having any discussions/arguments with these folks who are majorly keen on finding faults and insullting the deen...

1. Pedophilia
Pedophilia is an ongoing sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children. It is considered a paraphilia, a condition in which a person's sexual arousal and gratification depend on fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme. Pedophilia is defined as recurrent and intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children—generally age 13 years or younger—over a period of at least six months. Pedophiles are more often men and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the same or opposite sex varies.
Source

Please take note of the bold, it is therefore necessary to mention that Islam never encourages this, but rather Islam mandates anyone getting married to be 'mature'...Islam as the technical definition of what this 'maturity' entails, fundamentally, being responsible for your actions sums it all. Also, as one of the lessons learnt about the history of Islam as well as the spread, culture and tradition of the society plays a unique role in the society so that we can say, Islam never came to abolish or destroy culture and traditions of a people, rather it came to remove the filth and negatives and accepts, or upholds the good and positives in such culture and traditions...

What a society might consider as mature and a marriagable age would definitely differ, but fundamentally, Islam teaches that such a male or female going into marraiage must be of a responsible age and not prepubescent as the definition of pedophilia above suggests.

2. "In May 2015, research from the National Crime Agency suggested 250,000 men in the UK could be considered "true paedophiles" - adults who are attracted to pre-pubescent girls less than 12 years old.

Talking to The Independent in the wake of the research, one psychologist working said they should be treated as victims rather than offenders.

“It is a disease, it is a trait, it is not a choice. They haven’t chosen to change, but they can learn how to live responsibly with their sexual desires," Petya Schuhmann, who works with a scheme in Germany called Project Dunkelfeld, which allows individuals to anonymously contact therapists who help them control their sexual urges towards children.

Last year, a self-confessed paedophile, Todd Nickerson, a freelance graphic designer from Tennessee, caused uproar after writing an article asking people to be understanding of his "sexual orientation".

Called I'm a paedophile, you're the monsters, the piece explained how he believed his molestation as a child was the reason he is now sexually attracted to young girls. He also mentioned his membership of the "Virtuous Paedophiles" forum - an online community of paedohpiles who have vowed never to act on their sexual urges.

In July 2010, the Harvard Mental Health Letter of July 2010 stated that "paedophilia is a sexual orientation and unlikely to change. Treatment aims to enable someone to resist acting on his sexual urges".

The idea of treating paedophilia as a disease has long been controversial.

In 2013, Donald Finklater, of the child protection charity the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, said: "There may be some vulnerabilities that could be genetic, but normally there are some significant events in a person's life, a sexually abusive event, a bullying environment … I believe it is learned, and can be unlearned."
Source

I digress a bit, if you look at the bold in red, these are some of the argument points of those who support another sexual orientation, homosexuality. But why pedophilia is frowned at and rightly so, is the fact that it involves prepubescents, unlike homos who are consenting adults, aside this facts, there happens to be no other justification not to classify it as a disease or a bad behaviour that can be unlearned!

You have said it all Lanre, they do not have a sense of morality and thus, the level of their 'intellect' pushes them to accept and disagree at a snap of a finger, coupled with the herd mentality of being tagged civilized or 'woke'....

JeromeBlack:


I knew that you could never answer the question.

Yeah, and you are too lazy to quote the Qur'an and show me what you have found that I am not willing to share?!

JeromeBlack:


Very good. Now, how are they treated in the Quran and hadiths?

They are butchered, their heads on spikes in every street and market place, their eyes plucked out and their blood used for bathing!

I'm sure you do have access to the Qur'an, would't it be nice if you could share what you have found?!

JeromeBlack:



Yeah right.

Please, what is the meaning of mushrikun?

Polytheists.

lanrexlan:
You guys don't get and understand the logic Tintingz is proposing. Lemme break it down for you.

Scenario 1
Proposition 1 (according to tintingz): MUSLIMS are deluded.
Propostion 2: Tintingz's family are MUSLIMS.

From the above propositions, we can deduce logically that tintingz's family are deluded cos according to tintingz himself, ALL muslims are deluded (including myself and my family).

Scenario 2
Proposition 1 (according to tintingz): MUSLIMS consider wife beating, slave trading et al as NORMAL.
Proposition 2: tintingz has muslims in his family.
Analogical logical deduction: Muslims from tintingz family would have engaged in such acts he accused all muslims of since those acts are NORMAL in the Muslim world!

Before you come online and make silly and haste generalisation, consider the effects that come with it. People who live in glass houses don't throw stones!

Is logic hard for you guys? If something is normal in the Muslim world, then bulk (if not all) of muslims should be following and implentimg those things that are considered as norms! If they aren't following it, at least they would be cool with it.

The wife beating matter, the Prophet who got revelation from his Lord NEVER beat any of his wives. We didn't read such in the caliphs and our Imaams lives! Even in the contemporary world of muslim scholars, I haven't seen anyone who beats his wife and justify it with the Quran! Since we have run out of examples, maybe he (tintingz) can help us out with examples of close Muslim relatives of his would have engaged in such norms that he accused the entire Muslim world of! At least, charity begins at home!

Funny thing is that the people who beat their wives don't know about the Quran and those who know and understand the ayah don't beat their wives!




Mock atheists?! Insulting beliefs is different from insulting personalities. I do agree that arguments can get rowdy and people through jibes at one another. But, do atheists have a set of beliefs?! So which beliefs of the atheists are muslims mocking?!

We are here in Islam section, enjoying and discussing about our deen. An atheist comes in and starts to mock and ridicule what he doesn't believe in! Does that makes sense to you?! For example, I don't believe in leprechaun, Santa Claus or FSM, then I open a thread and invite my Muslim brothers. Then we begin to argue and debunk the beliefs of FSM, saying Santa Claus is a sadist, he is bigot and other unprintable words you guys have used on God! But we don't even believe Santa Claus nor leprechaun exist, this is a belief we don't hold! Is that not stupidity?! Why would we arguing something that doesn't exist and we don't believe in?!

Atheists don't believe in God, but most of you guys spend hours and days trying to debunk, ridicule and mock something you don't believe to exist! What do we call that? How do you guys sound to yourself?

You wanna discuss, you discuss. If you wanna mock and ridicule people's beliefs, then don't expect a pat on your back.

You can just imagine how they became defensive and claiming disrespect because I asked questions, I did not insult anyone or make mockery. People would come online and be forming mr logic and intellect spewing nonsense they dare not say to their folks at home, but you see the excuse, free speech! no need for respect, courtesy or diplomacy, you are just free to talk anyhow and yet they will still claim to have morality...

JeromeBlack:




My guy, please be honest with yourself. There was no need to bring up his family. You talk about respect and yet you lack the manners that would prevent you from crossing the line to talk about someone's family.


Secondly, there are numerous comments of yours that are insulting atheists. You say you respect beliefs, yet you mock atheists.

Even within your religion, I have seen how your fellow muslims insult pagan and atheists.

Please show me where I disrespected his family...

You wouldn't see me mock atheist on the religious section or see me create topics there for arguments or for mockery, any form of mockery (which I doubt) would most likely be as a result of an atheist being obnoxious on this section which is always obvious from the responses of most atheists to topics that do not concern them. It is a common saying that "respect is reciprocal"... Yes there are Muslims who do this, argue badly, insult and mock, but that isn't what Islam teaches...

Ultramane:


Yes, but unlike the screen, night is not a physical object emitting light rays. The verse would make more sense if we assume night is a tangible object. For now, at best we can just hope there is an alternative non-literal meaning to the verse.

Wow! I was right that my 'proper' interpretation was for your likes....Keep digging harder, you would see where the contrast button is placed in the verse...

Ultramane:

OK, I get your point, that the sky is made dark at night. Problem is, what the verse states is "He darkened its night". We've dealt with darkening of the night, earlier. But what is the night of the sky? How can the sky have night? Remember, the sky is everything above us. Perhaps from the upper troposphere, further away from us.

Bro, you are the one making up your own interpretations and forcing it on the Qur'an! I had told you to learn the language of the Qur'an, but no o, you just want to argue sha! Is the sky not dark at night and bright in the day ni?! So if you read "and the sky wept", you would most likely be asking does the sky have eyes?! Heard of figure of speech?!

Ultramane:

Next, it seem you didn't get the issue with "brought out its light". Keep in mind that when the earth rotate, it is rotating into the light. No light is being brought. Relative to earth, the sun is fixed. So the sky above any surface of the earth in the morning is either brought into the light or has been in the light all along. The light is not brought, it is where it has always been.

But I thought you usually consult tafsirs?! Can you share with us from your favourite tafsir if it tallies with your submissions, or you are the one just finding a line of argument?!

I have tried to explain that the sky that we all look up at, for a person on earth oblivious of whether it is rotating or not, becomes dark at night, and brightens at day. The brightening of the day is brought about by the sun, which is the light of the sky! In other verses of the Qur'an (because you do not base your conclusion on just a single verse), the sun was mentioned as being the source of the brightness, let me help you understand better:


"By the sun and its brightness

And [by] the moon when it follows it

And [by] the day when it displays it (i.e the sun and its brightness)" (Sahih International Qur'an 91:1-3)

I hope you would not make another funny interpretation with the last verse above

in another verse, Allah (SWT) talks about stars (Which the sun is) in the sky/heaven:

"And We have placed within the heaven great stars and have beautified it for the observers." (Sahih International Qur'an 15:16)

Ultramane:

I will create a thread later today on some 15 contradictions between Qur'an and Facts. It seem you don't get it. The Qur'an has issues.

I hope it isn't with the same line of reasoning you have presented here?!

Ultramane:

Even if this address the issue of darkening of the night, it did not address the issue of the sky or heavens having night. Night is not a concept for space - sky. It is a concept for planets - solids.

EDIT: Olber's Paradox sought to understand why the sky in our view at night is dark. It doesn't explain that all of the sky, the heaven, is dark at night on earth.

The heavens having night or day is based on your own construct and interpretation, it isn't difficult to understand what the verse is talking about is the sky at night and at day time as seen by inhabitants of earth!

JeromeBlack:



You have no right to be bringing in people's family into trivial matters like this.

Tingtinz has every right to criticise a religion he disagrees with. Criticising a religion is not the same as insulting a religion.

Many people in Nigeria have relatives from different religions. For instance, yoruba people can have muslims, christians and Ogun traditional worshippers in the same family. It is not insult for a christian family member to say that he disagrees with the prophet of islam.


Ogbeni, wise up

I have no right?! Trivial?! This is ridiculous! I have not insulted his family, I only asked simple questions, are his immediate family Muslims and do they practice any of what he had claimed?! why are you guys taking offense?!

Well I know you guys can't differentiate between criticism and plain insult, mockery and the likes. Your criticism is mainly predicated on finding faults, and no matter how these issues are being presented with effective reasonings, you would never consider, cos you are prejudicial when it comes to religion and in this case, Islam! There are numerous posts from the person you are defending and even on here which are plainly insults, mockery etc.!

FYI, my religion teaches me to respect other people's beliefs even in 'criticism', you will not see me going about other peoples religious topics to start arguing on what their religion should state and how delusional they are believing what they do and making ill-thought references to their revered symbols. Again, my religion teaches me to argue with wisdom, fair preaching and in the best way!

You are definitely right that some Nigerians to have family members who practice different religion, and that should be a guiding principle for us to respect and tolerate others, and if someone feels they are invisible online, it becomes necessary to remind such a person where he is coming from, which is even a prerogative in the Yoruba culture.

tintingz:


I'm not a incest fan, Muslims practice this. Ofcos bestiality is a threat reasons it needs to be controlled.

Read my premise again.

Can you please share with us the threats of bestiality?!

There is no substance to your premise; you have no excuse or basis to reject these other behaviours mentioned…

tintingz:

I didn't choose to be heterosexual likewise gays didn't choose to be Homosexuals, no one knows what causes sexual orientation. And FYI homosexuality is normal in some society reason they are legalized.

Is homosexuality not normal for animals?

A psychopath can also say this! Also, a child born with birth defects can be said to be normal because he/she didn’t choose to be born like that!

That it is legalized in some community isn’t the issue or accepted as normal by some society isn’t the issue, you cannot use that to justify a claim that homosexuality is normal!

Some animals eat feces, and we have humans into coprophilia, according to you, we should accept coprophilia as normal right?! Or you wait till people start claiming it is normal?!

tintingz:

But the mad community doesn't give a damn about Islam believe, in fact Islamic practice is not normal to them.

So why should I give a damn about mad people?!

tintingz:

Ofcos I criticize other people's behaviors and believe with fact and logic.

Only that, in this case, you do not have facts and your logic is faulty, not to mention your contradictions.

tintingz:

How does this relate with the argument?

Gays are killed for being gay. Even your God in the Qur'an killed gays.

This is also said by Muhammad in the Hadith,

Narrated by Abdullah ibn Abbas: The Prophet said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.

— Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4447, Al-Tirmidhi, 15:1456, Ibn Maajah, 20:2561

Adulterers are commanded to be punished by stone to death.

Whether there's evidence or not, adultery doesn't warrant death sentence, it's barbaric.

This strawmaning.

We're arguing about the Islamic normality (dogmas).

Beating wives is normal in Islam which is not in another society.

Where did Islam abolished slave trade, where?

Slavery has been a practice in Islam which is barbaric and not normal.

I've been judged here as an apostate that should have been killed if I'm in Islamic country.

Thank goodness I'm in a society where it's govern by the constitution not the archaic law called Sharia.

So a 10yr old girl is matured enough to know what she wants and be screwed by an old man?

Kindly stop referring me to my family, we're not arguing about my personal life, stop the ad hominem fallacy.

There is no logical fallacy on my part, above, I asked you if you were willing to participate in an activity you considered as being normal, you claimed you aren’t a gay, so you wouldn’t, meaning, if you were gay, you would definitely be having gay sex. This then applies to Muslims and your claims as to what they accept as normal, so you being an ex-Muslim, and sure, having family members who are Muslims, it shouldn’t be that difficult to back up your claims with facts from yourself and your family who are still devout Muslims if your claim are accurate!

Nb: You should know that whenever you come on here and insult Muslims and Islam, you are invariably insulting your family who are practicing Muslims. Your atheism logic did not teach you to respect other people’s beliefs?!

Empiree:
^^

And someone still think this dude is muslim?. Think again. His case has worsened over the past 4 years. He was fair then. Now it is no longer hadith he has problems with. It is now Qur'an he claimed to defend. This I knew all along.

You know hid "scholars" already... The so called "philosophers" who are pretty much anti-muslims and always make attempt to reinterpret Quran

He himself isn't claiming to be one any more, except I'm missing something...

usermane:
Sino, where are you? Here is another verse on earth that raises more doubt on the Qur'an authenticity.



"He darkened its night". "It" here refers to the heaven - sky.

Now, there is no night or day for the heaven, the space above the earth. The heaven is not an opaque solid receiving sunlight. Night is a phenomenon only applicable to the earth because of the earth opacity and rotation.

Also, what is meant by "darkened its night"? Sound like the night was clear or bright, then it was darkened. I can't make sense of it.

Plus, what is meant by "brought out its morning/brightness"?

Let me assist you with a 'proper' interpretation for your likes, "He darkened its night" is like adjusting the contrast on your flat screen TV!

You've clearly pointed out that heaven refers to sky, and we do not need special studying to know that the 'earth' faces the sky!

You know at night, the sky isn't dark, You would likely say that the earth is dark rather than saying the earth is facing the dark sky at night, and when light comes, by the 'rising of the sun', you would also likely say, the sky is still dark rather than say the earth is facing the brightened sky, which is brought about by the sun! The sky is made to be dark at night and brought out its light (sun) in the day for the benefit of those dwelling on earth! The Qur'an stated it in such a way to encapsulate the night and day so vividly you wouldn't need to have studied astronomy to understand this phenomenon!

Furthermore, the verses leading to this was actually stating the greatness of the creation of Allah (SWT) far and above the creation of man...Allah talks about the creation of the heavens and its significance for night and day, and the creation of the earth and how He made it inhabitable, when you reflect on how these creations are greater than man, you wouldn't be here arguing about rotation and resting place for the sun, you would submit in humility to the Creator of the universe!

A very interesting excerpt from NASA:

Why is the sky dark at night?

That question is not as simple as it may sound. You might think that space appears dark at night because that is when our side of Earth faces away from the Sun as our planet rotates on its axis every 24 hours. But what about all those other far away suns that appear as stars in the night sky? Our own Milky Way galaxy contains over 200 billion stars, and the entire universe probably contains over 100 billion galaxies. You might suppose that that many stars would light up the night like daytime!

Until the 20th century, astronomers didn't think it was even possible to count all the stars in the universe. They thought the universe went on forever. In other words, they thought the universe was infinite.

Besides being very hard to imagine, the trouble with an infinite universe is that no matter where you look in the night sky, you should see a star. Stars should overlap each other in the sky like tree trunks in the middle of a very thick forest. But, if this were the case, the sky would be blazing with light. This problem greatly troubled astronomers and became known as "Olbers' Paradox." A paradox is a statement that seems to disagree with itself.

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-space/dark-sky.html

usermane:
Salaam



Let's go by your interpretation that running for an appointed term mean running on a path or an orbit. Let's also forget about the heavens. And let's turn to 'night and day' which are subjects of the verb "running" in this verse. Now, how can running on an orbit be explained for night and day?

In light of this reasoning, I'm inclined to believe 'running for an appointed term' most likely refers to 'serving their purposes for an appointed term'.

This was my statement:
"sino:

You are welcome.

I believe "all running for a specific term" means what it means, after all, at a point everything created would perish, except the Creator! (Qur'an). Secondly, the Arabic used is plural, if it was just for the Sun and Moon, then the word would be in dual form (You see why I had advised you learn the language of the Qur'an?!)

Also, as I have pointed out earlier, it is not just until it is explicitly stated that you would come to such conclusions, that is why I alluded to using your thinking skills! When you read, "He wraps the night around the day and wraps the day around the night, and has made the Sun and Moon subservient" does it suggests that it is the movement of the Sun and the Moon doing this wrapping around?! Does the Moon bring about night?!"

You seem to be the one trying to put words in my mouth so to speak, at this point, you are on your own!

usermane:

I could get into the flaw in this point but I'd risk provoking you more than I already did.

Is it with your pipe bombs?!

usermane:

Fair enough.



Yes, but it has always been subjected to individual bias. Even with the science of hadith, one hadith may be accepted by one scholar while at the same time rejected by another scholar. If you reject an hadith for a reason, just understand that other Muslims may accept the same hadith for different reason.

You bring your evidences not bias, no evidence, no acceptability from the Muslims! There is a reason for it to be called a science bro!

usermane:

I'm not aware of any Qur'anic scholar of antiquity holding opinion of heliocentric model. There were Muslim scientists about the 10th century opposed to geocentric model, but there is no clear indication that this opposition was borne out of deducing heliocentric model from the Qur'an.

Are these models the basis of faith? Yes. If the Qur'an implies one model and we determine that model is not the model of the solar system, then it is time to question the divinity or infallibility of Qur'an.

Lol, if it implies so according to your own interpretations abi?!I have stated what the Qur'an clearly states, you are free to force geocentric model on it!

usermane:

Here, the verse 5 of chapter 39 states;

"He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night."

The night and day are wrapping over themselves here, not over the earth. I could say this is problematic as the Qur'an speaks of night and day as if they are tangible objects, capable of wrapping like clothes.

In common language we can say "the night has come", "the day has break", even though "come" and "break" are often used for tangible objects. But to say "the night wraps over the day" or "the day wraps over the night" is uncommon.

Also, I still hold that resting place of the sun according to 36:38, refers to a place the sun goes at sunset. I've explained it cannot mean the place the sun comes to rest at the end of the world because the context of the passage (36:37-40) addresses daily events - day and night(36:37, 40), phases of the moon(36:39).

There are numerous verses in the Qur'an addressing the end time. If resting place of the sun refers to where the sun comes to rest at end time, then the Qur'an would've mentioned the phrase among verses speaking of end times, rather than daily phenomena.

Also, the hadith of Abu Dharr supports my interpretation. I'm really not convinced otherwise. But I chose not to continue to drag it.


Lastly, Quran states night and day float in orbit(36:40) as the sun and moon. This does imply night and day are tangible objects rather than phenomena. You can say this is erroneous, unless of course you chose not to interpret 'falak' as literal orbit.

When it is clearly stated in the verse[/quote]

And you didn't quote the beginning of the verse which stated the creation of heavens and THE EARTH?! In your own mind, 7th century Muslims thought that night and day were tangible things?! Even as they experienced it as we do?! Haba!, give yourself sense small na...

usermane:

No deviation of heart here. The evidence of the differences among scholars on fundamental issues are all there as yardstick to measure the clarity of the Qur'an. Aside the Qur'an claim that it is clear, you have no external evidence to support your position that the Qur'an is clear.

See, the external evidences would soon come, just wait a while, it is definitely coming!

tintingz:
Humans are animals, we share some traits with animals.



We have evolve in our knowledge to know that Homosexuality is not a threat and it's part of sexual orientation. Homosexuals live like every other humans, they work, eat, have emotions and are intelligent, the only different is the sexual orientation which is not a threat. They deserve to be treated like humans reason some countries are now giving Homosexuals this human rights.

Or do you want them killed? For what exactly?

Yes Homosexuality is normal in this case, it's also normal in some society and no I'm not a gay why should I participated in the act?

Whatever the purported evolution, your reasoning can also be used to claim differently weird behaviours as normal such as incest, bestiality, necrophilia, coprophilia etc. So it is not enough that they are humans, and pose no threat! Remember, we are animals! And FYI, they do pose a threat!

That you are not gay is the reason for not willing to participate in a act that you consider to be normal speaks volume. What is the norm/normal for humans is the heterosexual orientation, anything other than that is not normal, thus it would be really awkward for normal humans to want to participate in such an act! Also, Scientifically/Biologically speaking, for humans, heterosexual is what is normal...

tintingz:

For normal to be effective it has to be intersubjective.

If you are in a country called Maddie where mad people live and have mad constitution, if you violate this mad laws, then you're not acting normal to them. That's how the society run.

You don't have to be like them, your subjective opinion doesn't count in their mad laws, if you have an opinion and want it to be heard, protest it till the large group of the people endorse it.

That is why I am here telling you that homosexuality is not normal, stop listening to mad people, and no matter how the madness spread, the fact still remain that Islam prohibits homosexuality!

tintingz:

I don't quite understand this part.

It means that you do not complain about other people's intersubjective normal! Since that is your opinion.

tintingz:

You and Muslims normality is dictated by a deluded ancient Arabia man that's said to be an illiterate that lived in the 7th century.

- Muslims 7th century normalities.

Killing gays is normal
Killing adulterers is normal
Beating wives is normal
Keeping slaves is normal
Killing apostate is normal
Sleeping with children below 10yrs is normal


- Western 21st century normalities.

Killing gays is not normal
Killing adulterers is not normal
Beating wives is not normal
Keeping slaves is not normal
Killing apostates is not normal
Sleeping with children below 18yrs is not normal


You can see how normal is intersubjective and somehow an illusion?

You know what is really funny is that you boast on here how you were a true Muslim that read and understood the religion, my question to you is, how many of the above did you participate in?! How many did your family who are still Muslims are doing now?! Let's take it from there...

But anyways, I will still burst your lies!

- Muslims 7th century normalities.

Killing gays is normal

Ans.: Gays are not killed for being gay, those who commit sin in an Islamic state openly, and are causing treasonable offenses with their sins are executed by the state, well, except they are insane!

Killing adulterers is normal

Ans.: Same as above, even though the evidences required to establish this is very difficult, and thus the punishment is meant to be a deterrent and those who fear for the punishment of the hereafter!

Beating wives is normal

Ans.: The best answer to you is a question I have already asked, I believe your father and mother (may Allah (SWT) Bless them) are good Muslims, you may wish to educate us on this further...

Keeping slaves is normal

Ans.: Before the West you are celebrating their 'evolved' reasoning, Islam had abolished slave trading systematically, Islam is the only religion that states the emancipation of slaves as an act of worship, and established equity and equality amongst slaves and masters....

Killing apostates is not normal

Ans.: Same answer as the first. By the way, you have been an apostate for how long?! how many death threats have you received from Muslims here?! And have you informed your family?! Perhaps they would kill you too?!

Sleeping with children below 10yrs is normal

Ans.: Islam states maturity, in fact such maturity that gives the woman the freedom to reject a marriage proposal! Again bro, bring examples from your Muslim family!

tintingz:
It's part of human nature to kill, hunts etc We as intelligent being needs to regulate our behaviors, it doesn't change the nature of things.

Because killing is natural doesn't mean we should accept it, there's difference between nature and moral laws. Nature is nature, moral laws are human construct.

Let me help reconstruct the above.

Because homosexuality is natural doesn't mean we should accept it! Moral laws exist because we are intelligent beings and need to regulate our behaviours, we are not animals!

Intelligence would mean that you can make reasonable judgments, so I put it to you, homosexuality, the act, is it normal to you? Are you willing to participate in such act? Kindly share your reasons for your answers.

tintingz:

It doesn't matter if there are whole of mad people or not, the point is people come together and establish what's normal in a society, if you come from another society and behave differently, your behavior would be seen as not normal.

So somehow, normal is an illusion.

Yep, it doesn't matter, so some group of mad people can come together and dictate what is normal to you, you accept what these people have established because you want to be like them or want to be acceptable to them?!

If normal is based on what 'society' has established and societies differ, why then are you having problems with a normal that is different from the one you have come to accept?!

Well, my own normal and that of Muslims isn't an illusion and not dictated by some people, it is divine, thus there is a moral compass that guides, unlike those which are dictated by the whims and desires of themselves and others!

Rashduct4luv:
Question:

I have been in a discussion with two friends about the name of Allah. Both said that the meaning of La Ilaha Illa Allah is there is no god but GOD. So they translated Allah in God. They also went on saying that Allah is an Arabic name and the translation into other languages is sinful and not allowed. They insisted that Allah should be translated into God and not Allah. In attempt to react on this to the best of my Islamic knowledge though am not a scholar at all I said that in the Qur'an many verses are telling us that God's name is Allah for example Bismillah Arrahmani Arrahiim translating into In the Name of Allah (not the name of God) the Most beneficent, the Most Merciful most and that Allah knows best. They rejected this and said how come you translated the last two words but not the first. So I said referring to them a verse saying: ask the scholars if you don't know. Here I ask you for an elaboration on this so that further misconception can be avoided.

Answer

All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) is His slave and Messenger.

The Name "Allaah" can be translated as 'God' for new Muslims who do not know Arabic language, just as we translate for them the meanings of the Quran and Ahadeeth in order to teach them the religion of Islam.
As for translating the name "Allaah" with 'God' while translating the meaning of the Quran or Hadeeth or books of Islamic knowledge, we do not think that this is permissible. Rather, it is an obligation to leave the name of Allaah in its original form as it is pronounced "Allaah". This is because, the name Allaah is the proper name of our Lord, Allaah. Besides, the Name Allaah demonstrates all His other Beautiful Names. Allaah Says (what means): {And (all) the Most Beautiful Names belong to Allaah, so call on Him by them, and leave the company of those who belie or deny (or utter impious speech against) His Names. They will be requited for what they used to do.}[Quran 7:180].
Moreover, the Prophet sallallaahu`alayhi wa sallam(may Allaah exalt his mention) said: "Indeed, Allaah has ninety-nine names, one hundred less one; and he who memorizes them all by heart (and acts upon their implications) will enter Paradise." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
The name "Allaah" is different from the word "God" which only means a deity and does not in any way indicate deeming Allaah far from being likened to false deities that are worshiped besides Him. The proper meaning of Laa Ilaaha Illa Allaah, is: "There is no deity worthy of being worshiped except Allaah".

Allaah Knows best.



Source

cc: Sissie, mukina2 The proper meaning of Laa Ilaaha Illa Allaah, is: "There is no deity worthy of being worshiped except Allaah" not ".... there is no god/God but Allah

God, the Most Beautiful Word in English

The English word “God” is a unique linguistic and theological treasure. It is pre-historic, extending into the Neolithic period and deriving from the proto-Indo- European root gheu (∂), meaning “to invoke” or “to supplicate.” “God” is a past participial construction, meaning “the one who is invoked” or “the one who is called upon.” Like Sanskrit, Persian, Urdu, and most of the European languages, English belongs to the Indo-European family. Our word “God”—proto- Indo-European Ghuto—corresponds linguistically to the Sanskrit past participle hūta (“invoked” or “called upon”), which appears in the Indic Vedas in the divine epithet puruhūta (“much invoked”). Etymologically, “God”—“the one who is invoked in prayer”—is remarkably close in meaning to the Biblical Elo¯ hîm and Alāhā and the Qur’anic Allah, which, as we have seen, convey the sense of “the one who is worshipped.” “God” is also virtually identical in connotation to the Native American Lenape word for the Supreme Being “You to whom we pray.” Supplication and worship are closely interrelated. The Prophet said in a well-known Tradition: “Supplication is the essence of worship.”

The English word “God” in its present form is ancient and pre-Christian, having no hidden or implicit link with Trinitarian theology. Its earliest documented historical use is in the poem Beowulf, the oldest poem in the English language and the earliest European vernacular epic. Beowulf relates pre-Christian events from the early sixth century, a generation or so before the birth of the Prophet Muhammad. Western scholars often find Beowulf paradoxical, because it lacks distinctive Christian references but speaks constantly of God’s grandeur, taking every occasion to praise God and give him thanks. “God” in its present form is the most common word for the Creator in the epic, but the poem also contains scores of other magnificent divine names, which are so deeply embedded in its fabric that they cannot have been interpolated later by medieval monks. Although Beowulf refers to the creation, Adam, Noah, the Flood, the resurrection, judgment, heaven and hell, it contains no references to Mosaic or post-Mosaic Biblical events or to Christ, the crucifixion, Trinitarian dogma, saints, relics, or similar elements that one would expect to find, if there had been any subsequent medieval editing. The poem declares God’s oneness explicitly and extols his wise and merciful governance of the world and its people; it rejects and ridicules paganism as the work of the devil, and the epic’s hero, Beowulf—a brave and mighty but truly humble man of God—engages in constant combat with the diabolical forces of evil and destruction. Not just in its many words for God but in general, the religious vocabulary of Beowulf expresses with exactitude the crux of the spiritual and theological vision which Muslims find so precisely expressed in the Arabic language. Beowulf is a testimony to the English language’s unique richness and should inspire us, as English-speaking Muslims, with a deeper respect for our language and its inherent power to express not only our concept of the divine but the entire repertoire of primordial prophetic teaching."

Source: Dr. Umar Faruq Abd-Allah, One God Many Names, (Nawawi Foundation Paper, 2004)