₦airaland Forum

Boss13:
SirJohn, well done. However, I like the way you took time to find out the truth. However, it was clear from the moment Joagbaje posted the link that the insert were different people. I made mentioned of it, not only me Pastorkun also spotted the fraud, when fake pastor Joagbaje posted the link. The individuals were two different people. I appreciate the effort in obtaining physical evidence and even the admission of Joagbaje that there were different individuals.

The question now is - why would Joagbaje ask Mr. Jeff (a member of his congregation and supposed actor) if he is the same person on the video clip. Is Mr. Jeff a member of Joagbaje video and editing crew? Does Joagbaje intend to claim that he does not review clips from his video and editing crew before they are being released to the public?

Why would Joagbaje claim and argue he has healed someone without any medical proof or verification?

All I see is Joagbaje trying to dissociate himself from an assertion he made and strongly claim to be accurate. He even confirmed that they were medical reports to back up his claims. He even boasted and was willingly to stake N500,000 of his church money.

Now can you guys see why Joagbaje needs to be admitted into a psychiatric hospital.

Sorry I had to edit this post and remove my personal conversation with joagbaje, I think I should give him time to explain himself while I upload the next details

Fourcade:
@SirJohn

Is the victim cool with his Name and Place of work published here?

He doesn't work at the PH Intl airport as the video will have you believe. He is currently jobless and was also jobless at the time of the video. He used to work as a ticketing tout at the airport but lost the job and the relocated to another state.

SirJohn:
Update: Following my decision to take up Joagbaje's challenge to investigate and debunk his bogus claim of HIV cure in one of his church meetings, I wish to announce that my investigation is nearly complete and will be published on a new thread very soon.

Watch out for this new thread coming up soon...

I have finally published the much awaited thread, please click here to follow https://www.nairaland.com/1995144/breaking-news-joagbajes-miracle-hiv

Space booked

I started this investigation sometime in September after Joagbaje published the phone number of Jeff Niboro the man he claimed was healed of HIV. All phone conversations with Jeff were recorded as evidence and control and I sent some to Joagbaje for record purposes. I have also archived all communications with Joagbaje during the course of this investigation for reference and control.

I called Jeff and started asking him certain questions, I asked if he had the medical reports to back his claim and he answered to the affirmative.
I also asked him if the Church saw his medical reports before publishing his testimony, he initially said yes then no then later changed his story to say that he only came with the result that confirmed him negative. He claimed Joagbaje requested for the reports initially when he didn’t have it but later brought them to him. This claim was however dismissed by Joagbaje who later honestly opened up to me that he did not see any of Jeffs medical report before publishing his testimony but had asked him to get it. Unfortunately, Joagbaje never followed up to see the medical evidence of Jeffs claim.

I then requested that Jeff make the reports available to me which he agreed and even requested for my email so he can scan copies of it and send to me. He said he could get the reports but that he had misplaced all the original reports and would need to go to the hospitals and request for them to extract the results from his file. This was in September

My worry however started when Jeff couldn’t provide a single report even after one month; he kept making very flimsy excuses and sometimes would not even pick my calls. When I noticed the reports were not forthcoming, I had to contact Joagbaje and in all fairness to Jo, he decided to assist. However, Joagbaje ran into the same brickwall of excuses and lies from Jeff; it was at this point I started becoming suspicious of Jeff.


While all these were going on, I kept analyzing the video and doing independent surveys. It didn’t take long before I spotted the first loophole in the video. The video began with a young man who introduced himself as Niboro Jeff he is seen standing in front of a church congregation (Christ embassy Bayelsa) to deliver his testimony. Standing behind him at the back of a pulpit was pastor Joagbaje himself. He started his testimony by affirming that he was confirmed HIV positive during a medical test conducted on him at a PH hospital and also at Glory Land hospital in Bayelsa. He also claimed that after Joagbajes ministration in one of the churchs program, he was miraculously cured of HIV and was later confirmed to be HIV negative in three hospitals including Glory Land Inri Medical Medical Centre Yenogoa and Federal medical Centre Bayelsa.

From exactly 3:00 mins into the video, there was an insert of what was supposed to be a flashback of the actual ministration by Joagbaje that resulted in the miraculous healing of Jeff.

At this moment, please pause and watch the video again

You’d notice that the man in the insert is not Jeff Niboro; this was Joagbajes first flop. I immediately downloaded the video and uploaded it on youtube to save it as evidence just in case he decides to take the link off NL. I then contacted Joagbaje personally through whatsapp chat and quizzed him about the video. Initially, Joagbaje tried to argue that he was sure Jeff was the same person in the insert he even sent me a screenshot of his chat with Jeff to prove that Jeff had confirmed to him that he had seen the video and that he was the one in the insert. The screenshot however exposed the fact that as at September 21st, Joagbaje was not sure himself if Jeff was the same guy in the insert as he had been posting the video on NL since August 2014
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5604/15756463566_569352e6a5_m.jpg

After series of questioning and pressure, on the 9th of this month, Joagbaje himself admitted in a chat that he has confirmed that the guy in the insert was not Jeff. The next day I got a call from Jeff also confessing that he was not the one in the flashback insert. Yet he had told me in a telephone conversation that he was the one and that he would send me a picture of him wearing the same clothes. The recorded conversation was sent to Joagbaje.

Stay tuned for more

I know that some of you reading this right now know the genesis of what is about to follow. For others, you may need a little trip down memory lane so that the motive behind this thread will be clearly understood.

I want to state that my main purpose of publishing the result of this investigation is solely borne out of the deep sense of responsibility that I owe posterity. I do not believe in pulling down another man just for the sake of winning an argument so I have spoken with Joagbaje to tow the path of honour and apologize for publishing a false testimony and explain his role in the whole mess.
I believe he has already retraced his steps as he has already removed the link to the video previously attached to his signature in his NL profile.

Now to the main story;

It all started from this thread www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school on Christ Embassy Healing School thread that I opened 6 years ago in November 2008, Joagbaje who I later knew to be a pastor in Christ Embassy church was a regular visitor on that thread and was constantly in defense of Pastor Chris and the Christ Embassy Church.
In April 2010, a young lady from Kenya (@kenyan28) also a nairalander came on that thread and claimed she was healed of HIV at the Christ embassy healing school in Randburg South Africa. Many of us warned her to be careful and make sure she does a follow up test to really confirm that she was free of the HIV virus. These warnings fell on deaf ears but rather what we got back were insults from her and her Christ embassy supporters.

In 2012, the same lady came back on the same thread to say that her new born baby has tested HIV positive and that she also tested positive herself confirming our initial fears. She would later go on to reveal some other facts that confirmed that she was never healed at the healing school in the first place. She has since moved on and is living a healthy and happy life with her family after she later explored various medical and herbal treatments for herself and her daughter.

In September this year, the healing school thread came on the front page of Nairaland again after some years of calmness. The Kenyan 28 issue was again hotly debated, words were again exchanged, claims and counter claims again erupted. Around this time, Joagbaje had been making claims of traveling to Tanzania to heal a man who had the Ebola disease, he also claimed he healed a man of HIV in one of his meetings; he posted a link to the video and gave the man’s name and cell phone number and dared anyone to prove that the healing was ‘fake’.

In several of his posts, Joagbaje goaded, taunted and challenged me to investigate and prove his story was a lie, he called it an ‘open challenge’ and even said he would give me half a million Naira if I was able to do it.

Here are some of his posts:

[quote author=Joagbaje 4:46am On Oct 05]Don't just sit on your computer typing rubish john .i sense you're afraid .You know this testimony will rubish all the nonsense you've been publishing . I posted the guys number . Why not find out . Why haven't you made an attempt . It's not my duty to run errand for you . If I post medical record here you will call say I forged it so john I challenge you in the name of Jesus whom you're denying . Use your half a million naira to prove me wrong.
Secondly if you a able to prove that this guy wasn't healed of HIV . I will give you half a million. .
This is an open challenge john. [/quote][quote author=Joagbaje 10:26pm On Sep 21]... you said if I can produce any case of a sick person ,you will investigate etc etc. now I'm giving you a challenge john. I prayed for a guy who was healed of HIV . Kindly investigate this lie of mine. The video shows how sickly he was and The record must be in the hospital Before and after. For once john . Follow my challenge through and disgrace me.[/quote][quote author=Joagbaje 7:04pm On Sep 11]I prayed for a man with ebbola in Arusha Tanzania , he got healed since August 4th , he is still healed. Every symptom stopped.
I prayed for a young man with HIV over a year ago he got healed. He went for test in 3 hospitals , his status changed to negative. He has added weight . He is still healed . Watch the video here
HIV HEALED. https://www.dropbox.com/l/zm7qzQm89ZWxuyrDrva8kp[/quote][quote author=Joagbaje 8:07pm On Sep 19]I'm amazed at you. So what made him look sickly . Will 4 medical report lie? Your mind is already closed to truth . I'm not trying to convince you. The man who got healed of ebola only watched my crusade and believed . It saved his life.
Ive been waiting for someone who will do that. So I would have really loved you to put him on your so called hot seat. I bet you,the seat will not be hot at all . My only concern is your sincerity . We've been here before . I gave you a contact of a lady who got healed of blindness. And you said she wasn't blind just because hospital didn't give her diagnosis.
Well if you're really interested and sincere His is JEFF Niboro by name is he works at the international airport in ph.[/quote][quote author=Joagbaje 7:22am On Sep 13]I can understand why Jesus marveled at unbelief ! This video has brought healing to many . If you can't believe this how can you believe I healed ebola ?
Look at the video again to the end and see the how sickly and skinny the guy look before prayer and see how robust he looked after prayer. He is not fictitious you can check him out on Facebook and interview him . He's a staff at the airport .
I have many documented testimonies with medical proof . It will be sinful to lie in the name of Jesus . Why don't you check it out . At least supposing you're wrong at least[/quote]In late September 2014, I decided to go all in and investigate the healing claim published by Joagabje in this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b01qsooOYs


Please stay tuned for more shocking details from the investigation

PastorKun:
Joagbaje has long since absconded from this thread, I doubt if he will show up to defend his obvious lies.

Like he has a choice

Update: Following my decision to take up Joagbaje's challenge to investigate and debunk his bogus claim of HIV cure in one of his church meetings, I wish to announce that my investigation is nearly complete and will be published on a new thread very soon.

Watch out for this new thread coming up soon...

Joagbaje:
Don't just sit on your computer typing rubish john .i sense you're afraid .You know this testimony will rubish all the nonsense you've been publishing . I posted the guys number . Why not find out . Why haven't you made an attempt . It's not my duty to run errand for you . If I post medical record here you will call say I forged it so john I challenge you in the name of Jesus whom you're denying . Use your half a million naira to prove me wrong.

Secondly if you a able to prove that this guy wasn't healed of HIV . I will give you half a million. .

This is an open challenge john.

SirJohn:
Well Well Mr Joagbaje, I've been trying to get your attention for a while now but you seem to be very busy lately

You of all people should have known that I am never afraid to take up such challenges, as I have taken up a couple with you before even though you tried to make me look like a liar even when the lady clearly told me she was never blind. But that's in the past now, and I have let it go.

Again Joagbaje I had to take out time to question the man in the centre of your ridiculous HIV cure claim Mr Jeff Niboro.
Unknown to you, I have been in contact with him since late last month gleaning as much information as possible; I also contacted Glory Land Inri Medical Centre Yenogoa.

Before I say anything further, I have some questions for you, your answers will determine if I should take this matter up with you on a fresh thread. Here are my questions:

1. Did you conduct a proper interview with Mr Jeff Niboro before deciding to publish the video of his testimony?

2. Before the testimony video was made, did you SIGHT any of the medical reports which he claims to have gotten from the three hospitals?

3. Do you believe that someone can contract HIV simply because they did not give their first fruit offering?

4. If you were a medical doctor and two intending couples came to your hospital for tests and the results showed that one was HIV positive and the other was HIV negative, what would you think to be the possible reasons for this outcome?

5. As a doctor, what would be your advice to the couples in such scenario?

6. Is it in the policy of Christ Embassy to advice intending couples to go ahead with wedding plans if one of the partners is HIV positive?

7. Mr Jeff claims to have misplaced the medical reports he got from the hospitals but promised he would go back to the hospitals and get fresh copies. He requested for my email and I sent it to him but it’s over two weeks now and I haven’t received the reports.
Joagbaje, would you be kind to share any of the reports with me here on Nairaland? That’s if you have them or have seen them at all.


I will be waiting patiently for your answers, you may want to dust your cheque book while you're at it

Following...

Joagbaje:
Don't just sit on your computer typing rubish john .i sense you're afraid .You know this testimony will rubish all the nonsense you've been publishing . I posted the guys number . Why not find out . Why haven't you made an attempt . It's not my duty to run errand for you . If I post medical record here you will call say I forged it so john I challenge you in the name of Jesus whom you're denying . Use your half a million naira to prove me wrong.

Secondly if you a able to prove that this guy wasn't healed of HIV . I will give you half a million. .

This is an open challenge john.

Well Well Mr Joagbaje, I've been trying to get your attention for a while now but you seem to be very busy lately

You of all people should have known that I am never afraid to take up such challenges, as I have taken up a couple with you before even though you tried to make me look like a liar even when the lady clearly told me she was never blind. But that's in the past now, and I have let it go.

Again Joagbaje I had to take out time to question the man in the centre of your ridiculous HIV cure claim Mr Jeff Niboro.
Unknown to you, I have been in contact with him since late last month gleaning as much information as possible; I also contacted Glory Land Inri Medical Centre Yenogoa.

Before I say anything further, I have some questions for you, your answers will determine if I should take this matter up with you on a fresh thread. Here are my questions:

1. Did you conduct a proper interview with Mr Jeff Niboro before deciding to publish the video of his testimony?

2. Before the testimony video was made, did you SIGHT any of the medical reports which he claims to have gotten from the three hospitals?

3. Do you believe that someone can contract HIV simply because they did not give their first fruit offering?

4. If you were a medical doctor and two intending couples came to your hospital for tests and the results showed that one was HIV positive and the other was HIV negative, what would you think to be the possible reasons for this outcome?

5. As a doctor, what would be your advice to the couples in such scenario?

6. Is it in the policy of Christ Embassy to advice intending couples to go ahead with wedding plans if one of the partners is HIV positive?

7. Mr Jeff claims to have misplaced the medical reports he got from the hospitals but promised he would go back to the hospitals and get fresh copies. He requested for my email and I sent it to him but it’s over two weeks now and I haven’t received the reports.
Joagbaje, would you be kind to share any of the reports with me here on Nairaland? That’s if you have them or have seen them at all.


I will be waiting patiently for your answers, you may want to dust your cheque book while you're at it

Boss13:
I guess I am interested in this personal discussion.

Don't worry, its an open discussion, you will most definitely be part of it

Errhm! mr Joagbaje, I think you and I have something to talk about we may have to go on a new thread for this.
Let me know when I have your attention

Joagbaje:
I have given a case . I gave his phone number. Ask him yourself . Ask for proof. See the three doctors . If they will put their job on the line for a silly fraudulent testimony. If you can't expose me john you're a . . . . I will hold my peace because you're still a soul I'm interceding for to return from your backsliding . Mudslinging the faith you once knew for vain glory of naira landers. Remember , you will stand before God one day . Kunle won't be there to cheer you up. You will be alone facing the damages you did to lives .

Well mr jo, I don't remember soliciting for your prayers so please keep it to yourself; I think you are the one who needs interceding for.
As for your HIV cure claim, don't get too cocky and comfortable yet, you may have some explaining to do very soon

Joagbaje:
Don't just sit on your computer typing rubish john .i sense you're afraid .You know this testimony will rubish all the nonsense you've been publishing . I posted the guys number . Why not find out . Why haven't you made an attempt . It's not my duty to run errand for you . If I post medical record here you will call say I forged it so john I challenge you in the name of Jesus whom you're denying . Use your half a million naira to prove me wrong.

Mr Jo relax, why are you all worked up because I tried to teach you something you don't know. You put up a video of HIV cure on the internet, a video that lacks the ability to convince even a two year old, a poorly scripted act as some people will call it. And I simply advised that you provide evidence in your video, or is the video just for Nairaland? where you think you have bunch of idiots?
Stop blabbing and provide the medical evidence.

Secondly Jo, stop saying that I deny Jesus just because I try to expose snake oil salesmen like your boss.

Joagbaje:
Secondly if you a able to prove that this guy wasn't healed of HIV . I will give you half a million.

So now its okay if you make a money bet, yet when I made mine you all cried wolf because you know it was impossible for you to cure any of the cases I listed

Joagbaje:
Simply call the guy up take a trip as you promised . Go with him to the hospitals the record should be there I suppose.Remember you said you will travel anywhere to verify a case of healing. Why are you changing the conditions. I simply present a case. It's left for you to open my bombom and prove me wrong.

And what if the records are not there? your tone lacks some confidence in it. Are you saying you didn't see any of the reports before publishing your Africa Magic home video?
By the way why should I go to the hospitals with him? or are you saying he doesn't have the test results with him?

Joagbaje: I presented an HIV case that was healed here . I dare all of you to investigate it . Go to the federal medical centre . And expose my lie . I somehow think you guys knows I'm right but pride will not allow you to admit . If not somebody should have investigated this testimony .

@Joagbaje,
You must understand that we are not kids, you know it is impossible for any medical center or doctor to give out information about a patient to a complete stranger. why are you asking us to go to the FMC? You came here claiming to have healed a young man of HIV, believe me, if you really did, you wouldn't be the one to come singing your own praises. If one proper HIV cure happens anywhere in the country or anywhere in the world, I tell you, it wont just take a joagbaje on Nairaland to spread the good news.

Jo, the video you shared online only shows a guy claiming he was healed of HIV in your church and then you also showed clips of the actual ministration. If you have to present a video with a claim of such magnitude, then you should have taken time to present relevant details before anyone can really take you serious. The video should not be for public consumption as it lacks the ability to convince even the dumbest fool. I'll advice you take that video off the internet until you are able to do the following:

show us all three test results you claim confirmed the young man HIV+, these results must be clear and should show the name and address of the hospital or lab that issued the result. and it must be stamped or signed.

Show us all three test results as you claim that confirmed him HIV- and they must all comply with the conditions stated above.

Show us a doctors report confirming that so and so condition previously existed but no longer is. This should come from the doctor who first confirmed him HIV+ and that doctor must be willing to talk and answer questions.

That is how you verify a case before making a video and loading it online.
If your video had all this in place including a brief interview session with his doctor, then you can come here and brag but until then, I will not take you serious.

I have also uploaded the video on youtube for the viewing pleasure of anyone who cares to watch:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b01qsooOYs&feature=youtu.be

Gombs: Ok, I would assume you know the answer, which is yes, one can loose it, and for various reasons. Consider pulpit commentary for John 5:14

John 5:14 does not prove that one can relapse after healing, it was simply a direct message to a particular person. How come we never heard Jesus tell another person the same words?

Gombs: that said, i have no detail of her personal life, her number one reason for loosing the healing is not far fetched from the above, eg what was her life like with her fiance before marriage?

Speculations! speculations! speculations!

Gombs: alot could be, only she can say, it's between her and God.

If you knew this, why did you then decided to be her God to be the judge.

Remember this:

Gombs: In other words, Kenyan has far worse state than she was.

Gombs: but it is certain one can loose their healing.

'Certain'? How? if certainty is the right word, then show me any one case from the bible

Gombs: 1. We now know who the liar is between HS and Kenyan.

2. We now know why she lost her healing, from the commentary of John 5:14

4. It is now on record for the whole world to see why some folks don't get healed in the HS and thus get bitter, or why some loose it because of their lifestyle.

I feel your frustration kiddo, you probably thought you'd be the hero who trashed those who dared to speak out about the hidden lies in the Christ Embassy Healing School. You met a brick wall and of course you had to fight dirty. Oh so now its her lifestyle wonders shall never end. It moved from 'oh she didn't have faith' to 'oh she has anger problems' to 'oh shes a slut'
y'all can take your jabs at her one by one, but you can't kill her spirit just like they couldn't kill mine.

Contrary to your failed theology, nothing worse has come on @Kenyan28, She looks healthy and pretty I'm sure maybe healthier than some of you put together (you can ask Joagbaje) shes has a happy family and her daughter is doing just fine.

Hopefully soon, very soon, she may cease to be the topic of discussion here

Gombs: Sir, Please she hasn't, well... before that, let me give a prelude to the answer.

John 5:14
But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.


1. A man got healed
2. Jesus said the above to him

I want to ask, is it then possible from the above, that one can lose a healing miracle? From the above, why is it possible?

Kenyan28: Where in the bible is it recorded that Jesus healed and the same person got back the same ailment??! Explain this to me like a 2 years old baby!

@Gombs,
I remember promising to answer your question if you answered mine, unfortunately you evaded answering the question for very obvious reasons.
My question was "At what point do you think @Kenyan28 lost her healing?" you answered "why you think she lost the healing" They are clearly two different things.

You also posted a commentary from biblehub.com in your attempt to look for an escape route, what you didn't tell everybody is that biblehub.com is a bible resource website and also contains dozens of other commentaries many of which are at variance with each other. Bible commentaries are not necessarily authorities, they are simply opinions nothing more. Yes we may make reference to them, as some of their thoughts may be relevant. But like I said earlier, the commentary you posted has varying counterparts, I wish you'd be kind to post some of them too.


Now concerning John 5:14 -But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.

While the statement may want to suggest a 'possibility' of 'relapse' in the case of this man, it does not also imply a general rule. I personally think that there was no 'one size fits all' in the way Jesus ministered in his time, He addressed different issues in different ways especially when it comes to healing and miracles. Some other major commentaries would agree with me that Jesus was addressing this man directly as he was aware (by divine unction) that the mans ailment may have been as a result of a particular sin or habit. When he found him in the temple and said to him 'Now that you are well, go and sin no more' the man knew exactly what Jesus was referring to. Another point of note is the statement that followed 'go and sin no more' 'Lest a worse thing come upon you'
Again most commentators are of the opinion that Jesus may not necessarily be talking about a relapse of the same condition. Why?
What could possibly be worse than sitting over thirty years beside a pool and being trampled upon for these years?

The second instance where Jesus made a similar statement is in the account of the woman taken in the act of adultery (John 8:3–11). When the woman’s accusers brought her before Jesus, expecting Him to pronounce judgment, He told them that the one who was without sin should throw the first stone. One by one, the condemning crowd left. Then Jesus told the woman, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more. In this case also like the man by the pool of Bethesda, she knew what sin Jesus was referring to.

In Mark 2:1-12 Jesus healed a paralytic, what was striking was what he said “Son, your sins are forgiven.” again, most bible commentators are of the opinion that the mans condition may have been caused by a particular sin or sins. Little wonder why the first statement Jesus said to him was 'your sins are forgiven' and then the next time he spoke to him, he said "I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house."

In John Chapter 9 however, we have a contrasting incident where Jesus clearly noted that the blind mans condition was not as a result of his sins or that of any other person; his disciples like Gombs and co probably thought all sicknesses was a direct result of sins. Even after Jesus had healed him, he met him later just like he met with the man at the pool of Bethesda, but he didn't tell him to go and sin no more did he? This clearly shows that Jesus was most certainly dealing with an isolated case that should not be made a general rule.

1 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.
2 And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 “We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.
5 “While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”
6 When He had said this, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and applied the clay to his eyes,
7 and said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which is translated, Sent). So he went away and washed, and came back seeing



@Gombs, This is my submission, if like you are trying to imply that Jesus was trying to point out a general principle from John 5:14, then how is it then that there is no single record in the bible of relapse after healing? In mathematical probability, its a zero probability of occurrence from documented record.

However, I do believe that the point Jesus was trying to make is simple; there are illnesses and diseases that are direct result of certain lifestyles, habits or even sins. An STD or STI most times are a direct result of immoral lifestyle or habit so if you get cured of STD or STI then like Jesus did, an advise to 'go and sin no more' is very much in place which will be to stay away from acts of immorality. Bitterness, anger, unforgiving heart, malice etc may lead to blood or heart conditions like hypertension or stroke; if you get cured of this condition, then you have to stay away from those habits. But, if the conditions were not a direct result of those habits, then such advice may not be necessary.

So finally, there's only a very slim possibility of relapse and this will only be for cases where like Jesus, the cause of ailment was directly linked to a specific sin, habit or lifestyle. However, the want of documented cases in the bible only suggests to me that it is not anything the christian should be worried about or persecuted for.

Thank you.

@Gombs, I see my posts are too impeccable for you to handle.
Since you can't explain how a HIV negative mother gave birth to a HIV positive baby, then by all means please keep quiet.
As for her husband, hes been HIV negative and still is, you can ask mbaemeka to explain that to you, I already schooled him on that.

@Gombs,
Good, I see you have tactically evaded my question and I'd like to infer that you do not have the answer.

Like I said earlier, let me pretend to agree with you that Kenyan28 was healed at the healing school.
She stayed 'healed' until she got married in Dec 2010, I remember then she kept making 'faith proclamations'. She later got pregnant, carried the baby for nine months and was still 'healed', she gave birth to her child and was still healed.

When did her doubts start?

Her baby started showing signs of illness and even then she still did not know what was wrong. When her baby was tested, the result was shocking HIV+ How??


How could a HIV negative mother who conceived a child after testing negative give birth to a HIV positive child?

is it not therefore safe to conclude that the mother was HIV positive all the while? What does this say about the test in Randburg that turned out negative? its very simple, it was a 'false negative' result. I dare say that if a follow up test had been carried out in a Lab it most certainly would have turned out positive. But Kenyan28 never did any other test even after several warnings till her baby was tested positive, if that was not an act of 'faith' tell me what else is.

[quote author= KunleOshob]@ Kenya
I would strongly advise you do an independent test with a reputable hospital, test results from CEC have time and again proven to be false. And pleeeaaaassse DON't stop taking your medication until it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that you are healed. Don't let them deceive you into not taking a confirmatory test in the excuse that you shd "exercise your faith". Of course their ready made excuse when their fake miracles are exposed is that the person didn't exercise enough faith.[/quote]Just in case you didn't know, the type of test she did that turned out to be negative has some degree of inaccuracy and incidence of false negatives. please take time out to read this:

[quote author=Efficacy of Rapid Testing, culled from http://www.uniteforsight.org/health-screenings/hiv]As HIV screenings become more widely required and more commonly conducted, the use of rapid tests is increasing. A primary concern about rapid testing is the poor testing sensitivity and the unacceptably high rate of false positive results. In the Rakai district of Southwestern Uganda, a region heavily plagued by HIV, trials conducted on the three most commonly used rapid HIV tests in Uganda revealed critical inaccuracies in rapid testing results. When the results of the rapid tests were retested using traditional tests that have been proven to be acceptably reliable, such as the western blot test and an enzyme immunoassay, it was discovered that 129 of the 295 people who were diagnosed as HIV-positive were actually HIV-negative.(6) Thus, nearly 45% of the patients who received positive results received them in error. Although the rapid tests in question had reasonable sensitivities, averaging approximately 97.7%, the specificity ratings of the tests proved to be unacceptably low with an average specificity of 90.7%, causing the high frequency of false-positive results.(7) According to World Health Organization recommendations, HIV testing methods should have a sensitivity of at least 99% and a specificity of at least 98%. This means that the test should give a positive result when the condition is present at least 99% of the time, and the test must also give a negative result at least 98% of the time when the patient does not have the condition. ( According to these standards, the rapid HIV tests currently used by the Ugandan Ministry of Health do not meet the proposed criteria for sensitivity or specificity.

The alarmingly high frequency of false-positive results is not unique to Uganda. A recent study performed in the Eastern Democratic Republic of Congo found that two consecutive positive results from two separate rapid tests have a 10.5% chance of producing false-positive results.(9) Another study analyzed one of most popular rapid testing algorithms used in Cameroon, an algorithm which first tests with a rapid test called Determine and then confirms results with another rapid test called ImmunoCombII. The algorithm demonstrated a sensitivity of 100% but a specificity of only 91.5.%. Therefore, although this rapid testing combination produces virtually no false negatives, it regularly leads to false positive results.(10) A second commonly used testing algorithm employed by the Cameroonian Ministry of Health results in a specificity of 98.8%, which is significantly higher than that of the first testing combination. Yet despite the improvement in specificity, 2 out of every 100 people who are tested with this algorithm are still receiving false positive results. “2% false HIV positive individuals in a high burden country such as South Africa with more than 5 million HIV infections will correspond to about 100,000 people falsely declared HIV positive.”(11) Comparatively speaking, 98.8% is a relatively high specificity, one that meets the World Health Organization’s standards, yet hundreds of thousands of people are still being misdiagnosed as HIV-positive. Unfortunately, many countries are currently using rapid testing combinations in which the specificity is significantly lower that 98%, resulting in an even higher number of false positive diagnoses.

Further complicating the issue, some studies have revealed that certain types of rapid HIV tests are also producing false-negative results. A study conducted by the South African government revealed rapid HIV testing sensitivities that averaged 68.7% in Cape Town’s local clinics.(12) Thus, the tests are failing to detect HIV in nearly one third of patients who have the virus. In Cameroon, the same rapid testing algorithm that produces a specificity of 98.8% has a sensitivity of 94.7%, resulting in 6 out of every 100 people receiving a negative diagnosis when they are in fact HIV-positive.(13) In the case of false negatives, the use of rapid testing to diagnose HIV during health fairs or screenings can actually do more harm than good by misleading an HIV-positive individual to believe that they are HIV-negative. False negatives are a threat not only to public health prevention strategy but also to the health and well being of the individual. A negative diagnosis, despite being incorrect in some cases, may prevent patients from seeking out other testing opportunities, taking the necessary precautions to prevent the transmission of HIV, and receiving the care and treatment that they need. [/quote]Again I ask you Gombs, if some of us came here back in 2010 and warned her of this kind of outcome and even accurately predicted the turn of events, don't you think it goes to show we know something you don't? please give it a thought!

SirJohn: @Kenyan,
I have been following your posts and the subsequent responses and I want to advise that you be very very careful. I'm not trying to discourage you in any way but your case is not new at all. When I started this thread, I remember stating that I have been a member of CE and a leader as well; I have seen your kind of situation go bad several times. I remember talking about a dear brother who passed on in december 2008 of HIV, he was in the branch of CE where I left. he went to the healing school and came back 'healed'; some years later in december 2008 he died two weeks to his wedding from HIV complications. Hes is not the only case that has been recorded and believe me if anything should happen to you, they will say you did not sustain you faith; thats been the case with many faith healers around the world.

From your posts, I can see you've put serious effort in ensuring that you remain healthy and alive for as long as you can; and so far most of it has worked for you. My advice: dont trade what you have now for false hope which may seem to work now but will definitely FAIL.

SirJohn: Kenyan28 is shouting so loud cos she wants to silence the truth echoing in her mind but what she fails to understand is that no matter how loud she shouts, the truth will still stare at her right in the face.
Go ahead shout all you can, TIME WILL TELL

So except anyone wants to be dishonest, it is clear that this lady was lured into accepting a false hope but God intervened.

@Gombs, your interview didn't reveal anything new, it only brought out the facts that we all know which is that Kenyan28 has had three different stance on this one isssue.

First - "I was healed...I know I am healed"

Secondly - "Why is the healing not permanent?... I was healed"

And then lastly - "I was not healed"

I honestly wonder why the progression of her stance is an issue to you as this is the normal progression of stance for anyone who has been scammed. I will give you an example, I once invested in a dubious pyramid scheme, but at the time I invested in it, I had no idea it was a scam. I remember the CBN even did a full page warning in one of the national daily's warning people not to invest their funds in the scheme. But I felt the CBN was just blabbing; I read testimonies of different people who supposedly made a fortune out of the scheme so I bought in completely to it. At one time, one of the schemes paid me 300% on an investment and I said wow, this must be real, I later invested over a million naira into the scheme and decided to wait for my returns. 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 10 weeks passed yet no returns. Some of my friends who warned me later started asking if I had received my profit; of course I made excuses for the company. I told them payments were delayed due to backlog of previous payments. gradually, weeks turned into months and it gradually began to sink in that I had just been a victim of one of the worlds oldest scam, 'the pyramid scheme.' Today, I have absolutely no doubt in my heart that I was scammed.
You see, its the same progression of stance; if tomorrow someone who heard me defend the scheme comes to me with a similar business proposal and I say, 'No, sorry I can't invest, I did it before and I was scammed' will he say oh but you said it wasn't a scam back then?

You told her to confess her 'faith', she did and now you've turned against her pulling out the same confessions you taught her to say which I warned her about.

The conclusion is very simple and I don't think I will waste another time discussing this in details again. She was never healed because if she was, her child would not have turned out to be positive. For her child to have tested positive, it means the mother was positive for the virus. SIMPLE!

Gombs: Granny, you haven't answered from my post whether it was possible to loose one's healing as Jesus pointed out. An honest answer would set my answer to your question in motion.

Now, it's you and I discussing, I'd be glad to discuss with you too. I'm done with Kenyan, now I've time for you. Thanks alot for being patient all through my interview with Kenyan, you are indeed a gentle man.

Thanks for the compliment, now its your turn to be a gentleman
I asked you a question, answer my question first then I'll answer yours. Its okay if you don't have the answer to the question, just get off your high horse and simply say "I don't know" period

@Gombs,
please tell the world at what point you think Kenyan28 lost her healing...

Gombs: Sir, Please she hasn't, well... before that, let me give a prelude to the answer.

John 5:14
But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.


1. A man got healed
2. Jesus said the above to him

I want to ask, is it then possible from the above, that one can lose a healing miracle? From the above, why is it possible?

kid, quit trying to play smart and answer my question, since you've analyzed her story so well then please tell the world at what point you think she lost her healing.. the burden of proof is on you

@Gombs, now that you are done with your questions can you please answer mine...

At what point do you think she lost the healing?

@Barr Okafor AKA Gombs,
I have just one question for you
Let me pretend to agree with you that Kenyan28 was healed and then later lost the healing, my question is:

At what point do you think she lost the healing?

Kenyan28: Look who is talking, between you and I who has brought up other peoples posts?? I have answered ALL your questions. I did not not tell you what you expected to hear though.

Building collapse is not rocket science my good friend, if you watched the video posted, its a no brainer why there appeared to be rapid bursts of air and dust.
The building was made up of several floors each separated by concrete deckings, when the building foundation gave way, the concrete decking floors collapsed on each other forcing the air that previously occupied the space between each floor to escape rapidly. Try clapping your hands very close to your face, you'd feel bursts of air touching your face, this is the air that previously occupied the space between your palms. This is simply what happened in the video.
The building collapse in SCOAN is not the first in the country, however it seems to be the first captured entirely on video. Buildings with multiple concrete floors collapse the same way, the floors collapse on each other.
For those trying to sell the controlled demolition story, please go to YouTube and watch clips of controlled demolition; even the simplest of buildings require multiple explosives placed on several portions of the building before you can take the structure down.

Gombs: Sir, the interview has to be the way i want it, not how you all want it, if she is not comfortable with the arrangement fine!


*Wondering why folks are all getting hysterical because of the way i want the interview to be... Kunle thought i wanted her to change stories by the type of interview, only guilty folks would however change their stories. and i'm not doingg this interview to 'conviict' her, but to put facts side by side for posterity.

For me, I didn't care one bit how you did the interview. Someone tried it privately, just exactly how you want it and she put him in his place
We all know what you want to achieve with your interview, just the same way you and mbaemeka tried to pick holes in my story but failed. Mbaemeka even insinuated at a point that I was writing on behalf of kenyan28, he probably thought I was as desperate as he or some other person (you know who).

Please go ahead with your interview, don't chicken out

As for the facts, its already ripe enough for folks to see. Judging by the number of emails I have received since this thread resurfaced, I think people are beginning to see through the shenanigan.

BobNeli: There's no hard and fast rule to prove that he must have seen it comming. He is not God. There had been cases like that in the past, where prophets could not fore-see nor stop calamities comming upon them. For instance, Eli was a prophet who mediated between the people of Isreal and God. He was the one who told Hanna to go home that God has answered her prayers for Samuel. Yet whilst his two only sons were going to be consumed by war, an incident which also claimed his own life. Because he had heart attack after all. He could not fore-see it. And my other question remains. Why is it that all you critics have failed to ask your selves. Why haven't this building colapsed until this strange aircraft hovered no other place but on it. What was the mission of the aircraft? More over, have you ever seen a building colapsed in the manner in which that one did? Just onece. Nothing like cracks first and then, fall. Why do we always becloud our reasonings with hate. And keep seeking aguements to suport what we want to beleive. But remain completely blind to any counter aguement? With your kind of last question, if you had been available at the time Jesus Christ, you would have been among those to spit at Him and repremand Him that He saved others, why can't He save Himself. You would have been among those to tell Him to come down from the cross if He knows He is the Son of God indeed. Let us always try to be loath to find faults. For we all are imperfect beings.

Stop trying to shift the focus, and tell me what justifies the title given to the thread by the OP. The thread is dishonest and misleading because the OP is claiming there may have been a bomb explosion at the site of collapse, what is more ridiculous is the claim that this has been confirmed by the military and building expert. That is simply what I am reacting to so stop trying to cover up.
Building collapse is not rocket science my good friend, if you watched the video posted, its a no brainer why there appeared to be rapid bursts of air and dust.
The building was made up of several floors each separated by concrete deckings, when the building foundation gave way, the concrete decking floors collapsed on each other forcing the air that previously occupied the space between each floor to escape rapidly. Try clapping your hands very close to your face, you'd feel bursts of air touching your face, this is the air that previously occupied the space between your palms. This is simply what happened in the video.
The building collapse in SCOAN is not the first in the country, however it seems to be the first captured entirely on video. Buildings with multiple concrete floors collapse the same way, the floors collapse on each other so what exactly are you trying to say?

@topic,
Don't you think the title of this thread is misleading and dishonest? Especially when you don't have link to the source of your ridiculous claim. You say 'military' and building experts', we are interested in knowing who in the military confirmed this and which building expert. If you are not one of those who collected N50, 000 to bend the story behind this unfortunate incident then I wonder why anyone in his sane self would allude to such dishonest tale.
If you or the entire SCOAN is trying to make the world believe that the video you posted confirms a bomb explosion, then I think we a dealing with a classic case of dishonesty. If even the learned among you cannot tell why there was rapid burst of air and debris from the side of the building during the collapse then I dare say that you are all dumb.
I am definitively not one of those calling for TB Joshua's head to be put under a guillotine, I know it was an accident and it can happen to anybody prophet or no prophet. But what continues to amaze me is the reactions from SCOAN since this event chief of which is the attempt to skew the story with the most ridiculous tales ever. There's absolutely nothing strange about the collapse, so quit trying to mystify it. After all your prophet should have seen it coming.