₦airaland Forum

geoworldedu:
Wonderful. Time for me to cash out on the gullible sheep. D

The sheep pay him nothing. It's YouTube paying him.

AntiChristian:
How many type of death dey? When Lazarus died was he in coma for Jesus to raise him up?

Forget Genesis, God didn't say Adam will die. If he said that Adam would have died! There's nothing like spiritual death or physical death!

Death is death!

You Sabi reinterpretate your Bible o!

Die is no more die again and it means something else!

Ok let's agree Jesus was talking about physical defeat for the sake of argument.
Didn't John see the Son of Man in his glory?

honesttalk21:
I commend your efforts however too shallow.

Was the Prophet pbuh Taught by Waraqah or Jabr?

You caim Waraqah ibn Nawfal was a close family tutor of Muhammad pbuh.

However the clear reality is Waraqah was Khadijah’s cousin, making him the Prophet pbuh's cousin-in-law, not his uncle or teacher (Ibn Hishām, 1955).

Both shared distant descent from Qusayy ibn Kilab, but this was true of most Quraysh, and does not imply an intimate family tie (al-Tabari, 1987).

No historical source records ongoing meetings before revelation. Their first encounter came only after the Prophet’s experience in the cave of Hiraʾ (Sahih al-Bukhari).


You also claim: Waraqah instructed Muhammad in Christianity and scripture. But the is that by the time of their meeting, Waraqah was already old and blind, incapable of actively teaching (Bukhari, Kitab Badʾ al-Wahy).

Earlier, he had been known for writing parts of the Gospel in Arabic script, but this was publicly known, not secret (Donner, 2010) and quite a different from public oral preaching.

His actual role was confirmatory as he saud this is the Namus who came to Moses.” He validated, but did not provide content.


Again your claim that the kinship terms used in hadith prove close relations (my nephew,my cousin) but In Arabic tribal etiquette, ibn akhi (my nephew/son of my brother) was a respectful form of address for younger tribesmen, not literal genealogy (Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari).

Khadijah calling Muhammad your nephew, O my cousin was polite framing, not evidence of hidden Christian teaching or close genealogical relationship. This language reflected Quraysh norms of solidarity, not intimate family tutoring.


You claim Khadijah must have been discussing the Bible with Waraqah already and don't appreciate the reality of her turning to him because of his public reputation as a man of scripture, not because of secret Christian instruction.

There is no evidence that Khadijah was a Christian herself; Islamic sources consistently describe her as a believer in the One God, not as a practicing member of the Church (Donner, 2010; Neuwirth, 2019).


You particularly refer to a claim that Jabr the Christian slave taught Muhammad pbuh and though the Quraysh did accuse the Prophet pbuh of this, the Qur’an preserves and refutes the charge. The one they point to speaks a foreign tongue, while this Qur’an is in clear Arabic speech” (Qur’an 16:103).

The Quraysh themselves acknowledged the Qur’an’s unmatched eloquence in Arabic, yet accused him of learning from a foreigner an inherently contradictory claim (Reynolds, 2010). Translation effects would not explain the Qur’an’s unparalleled rhythm, structure, and coherence, which stunned native poets and linguists (Neuwirth, The Qur’an and Late Antiquity, 2019).


Your further claim that the Qur’an plagiarized from earlier scriptures is purely unfounded.
The Qur’an overlaps with Biblical traditions but reframes them with corrections and theological originality (Neuwirth, 2019).

Scholars such as John Wansbrough (1977) emphasize that the Qur’an is not derivative but engages in intertextual dialogue with late Antiquity’s religious environment. He showed that the Qur’an is not derivative but engages in intertextual dialogue with Late Antiquity’s religious environment reframing earlier ideas with originality. In other words it converses, it does not copy.

Pls stick to my argument.

I never said anyone taught Muhammed his revelation. That's not my argument.

My argument is clear and I brought the evidence. Muhammed was surrounded by people and friends who knew the bible stories. So the idea that Muhammed couldn't have known the bible stories before he met angel Gabriel is ridiculous at best.

So when he visit Jabr at his quarters, what do they discuss. Muhammed was a monotheist who hated paganism, he visited his friend who is also a monotheist in Christian faith.

So U telling me Muhammed and Jabr never discussed monotheism, something they both had in common?
Common man U much smarter than this. The people of Mecca may be pagans but they are definitely not fools.

The issue of waraka has been sorted, no need over flogging it


It's funny U running to academic scholars for support.
People that called your Quran a composite book.
Yes, academic Quranic scholars believe your book is a composite and layered text that didn't reach it's final and present stage until the time of the 3rd caliph.

If U want quote I will give U.

From Angelika Neuwirth.

From “Scripture, Poetry, and the Making of a Community: Reading the Qur’an as a Literary Text”:

“The Qur’an is not a mono-authored text but has some aspects of a collective work … The Qur’an contains the record of complex negotiations between a proclaimer and his audience, including arguments, accusations, objections, and rebuttals, and showing the modification and growth of ideas over time.”

“Shorter passages derive their meaning from the functions they serve in the sura as a whole … despite the existence of interpolations and other textual oddities that constitute signs of adjustment or editing.”

honesttalk21:
Jesus never called God by the name YHWH but instead called Him Father by the Jewish figurative sense of intimacy and obedience. The holy Name does not appear in the Gospel narrative following Jewish worship practice of not using its pronouncement. Speaking of the I am (ego eimi) statements of John, they were common Greek statements meaning I am he, and not an identification of YHWH. Jesus thus ever identified Himself as the servant of God and not God Himself.

Ehyeh and ani are not the same. We already had this argument. Jesus said Ehyeh in John 8.58, not ani. That's why the Jews wanted to stone him.

Before Abraham was, I AM. That's Ehyeh and not ani.

Jesus said I and my Father are One. That's a clear indication of divine status with his Father. U can't know better than the Jews who accused him of such blasphemous statement and wanted to kill him for it.

Finally Jesus made that clear distinction he's a Son and not a slave. Pls respect Jesus and don't misidentify him. U wouldn't like it if I do the same to your prophet.

John 8.35-36
Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed

Expanse2020:
Perhaps you should point it where it's said that or you misquoted

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

Now let's bring the tafsir of the verse so that U can redefine and fine tune your mental gymnastics properly.

Asrar - Kashf Al-Asrar
He was created of gushing water, emerging from between the loins and the chest.
When the human individual was created, he was created from water thrown and spilled, a water that came forth from the back of the man and from the bones within the woman's breast .

Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
the response is: He was created from a gushing fluid, gushing forth from the man and the woman into the womb.

Kathir- ibn- kathir-

(He is created from a water gushing forth.) meaning, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَآئِبِ
(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,
يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَآئِبِ
(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).'' Concerning Allah's statement,

Expanse2020:
Perhaps you should point it where it's said that or you misquoted

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

Now let the mental gymnastics begin.

Expanse2020:
Where do you want to start
First
Quran said
* The earth and heaven are once before splitting
* The universe is continuously expanding
*Iron come from sky
*There is a (imaginary)barrier between two seas (fresh water and salt water) preventing each other to mix up
* The mountains are used as a pillar to hold the earth
* The earth is spherical not flat as science proposes before they later confirmed it is spherical

Science laters confirmed It after a thousand year

Quran claimed the sperm comes from the backbone. That's all I need to know about the scientific miracles of the Quran

Kobojunkie:
If you are called an eediot by someone who does not like you, does that make you an eediot?

I don't understand!

are u denoting christian is an insult and that Paul rejected it.
christian simply means christ like- i dont see any insult in that and there's no indication the disciples hated the word christian. Peter used it in his letters.

1 Peter 4:16:
"Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name."

FYI
so Jesus followers called themselves The way
The Jews called them Nazarene
Gnetiles called them Christians

There's nothing wrong in any of the three names.

Kobojunkie:
They were referred to as Christians by Pagans, who later went on to demand the killing and exiling of all Jews(pretty much all Israelites) in the land of Judea, not long after. What has that to do with anything?

Follow the train of your own conversation.

U said earlier Paul is not a Christian now U admitting pagans called them Christian.

Kobojunkie:
Paul and the other apostles were not Christians; Christianity was sourced from the Roman attempt at hijacking the movement that belonged only to the Israelites.

As for what Paul and the apostles gained for choosing a career as followers of Jesus Christ of Israel, we are made to believe His followers would gain exactly all He, Jesus Christ of Israel, said in His Gospels that they would in this life and the one after it.

But Paul was amongst the first followers of Jesus called Christians in Antioch.

Kobojunkie:
Christianity has always been that from its very inception, a religion of give and expect.

What did Paul and the other apostles get for giving their life for the cause of the faith?

Ohyoudidnt:
Reference for this please. I know you don't expect me to just take your words for this.

samiriyyun is a transliteration from the syriac language word for samaritans- shamraye. The two words are very close phonetically.

Hebrew- shomronim
Greek/syriac- samareia/shamraye
arabic- samirah/samiriyyun

samiriyyun is not originally arabic but a loan word from syriac.

Ohyoudidnt:
Are you trying to give the impression that there wasn't any form of moulded object worship around the Israelites in Egypt before this incident?

I dont understand what u mean by above and how it's relayed to the anachronism problem of the smaritan.

honesttalk21:
I hope you read up what you posted in the image? Ehyeh is the future imperfective term but Ani is described as I or I am. However irrelevant.

Ehyeh and Ani are not the same thing. argue with scholars.

honesttalk21:
Well now you are collapsing your argument. You see nothing wrong in Jesus using a general name but fault Muhammad pbuh using similar?

when did I argue this. U guys are the ones that stole the general word for God in arabic and personalised it as the PERSONAL NAME OF YOUR GOD. and we are asking, before arabic language was created, what is the personal name of your God.

honesttalk21:
Did Prophet Muhammad pbuh say he brought a new God?

I have no business with the deity Muhammed brought. My question is what is the personal name of your God.
honesttalk what is the personal name of the God you worship, and when did he start bearing that personal name?

honesttalk21:
Clarification on Eli and El noted though your tone suggests disagreement with use of non specific or is this exact name for God.

Eli, El, Elohim, Baal are all non generic name of God in cannanite languages. They can be sued for God or any other deity, they are not personal names.

honesttalk21:
Now why is this personal name of God never used by Jesus? Does this not question the perception of this name as the personal name of God?

He did!!! Jesus mentioned the name[b] 'I AM'- Ehyeh[/b]

honesttalk21:
1. I am not aware that Waraqah read out loud the Gospel stories.

already dealt with

honesttalk21:
2.Yes the narrative is in line with what happened after the first revelation in the cave. Waraqah had left polytheism and new the Torah and Injil as he understood Hebrew language.

How did people around him got to know he was translating the gospel to arabic if he kept to himself and minded his business?

How did Khadijah got to know that the right person that could explain Muhammed's encounter was Waraqah if not that both had been talking to each other about the injil
except u want to push the conspiracy theory that Khadijah was a catholic christian so had solid knowledge of the bible.

honesttalk21:
3. Waraqah was Khadijah 's (the prophet's wife) cousin not Muhammad's pbuh

Mr Man, learn your own Hadith. Waraqah called Muhammed his nephew. Muhammed and Khadija were related via distant relatives.

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqah bin Naufil bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Arabic letters. He would write from the Gospel in Arabic as much as God wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqah, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqah asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" God's Apostle described whatever he had seen.

honesttalk21:
4. You say cousin in error then Uncle? The prophet is not known to have had earlier close relations with Waraqah who passed shortly after the first revelation.

Pls come back her and chew your words and get busy reading your hadiths instead of wasting time on the bible u don't even understand.

Waraqah asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" God's Apostle described whatever he had seen.

honesttalk21:
In regards to context the Quraysh accused Muhammad pbuh of merely retelling tales of the ancients because they had picked up snippets of old stories from Jews and Christians, rather than having any genuine understanding of the scriptures themselves.

These accusation served as a convenient way for them to brush aside the revelation, similar to how some people today might dismiss something by saying, Oh, that’s just the same old myth recycled.

No the Qurash had strong evidence Muhammed was making up stories he heard from people of the books and they rightly accused him of plagiarism. Reason why they didn't take him serious until he brought Islam to Mecca with force.

Qurash knew Muhammed was friends with Christian slaves like Jabr and Yasar who lived in Mecca and worked in a shop near Mount Safa. "Ibn Ishaq also provides some detail, also seen in Al Tabari tafsir:

"According to my information the apostle used often to sit at al-Marwa at the booth of a young Christian called Jabr, a slave of B. al-Hadrami and they used to say "The one who teaches Muhammad most of what he brings is Jabr the Christian, slave of the B. al-Hadrami." Then God revealed in reference to their words "We well know that they say, "Only a mortal teaches him"."

THE CLAIM THAT THERE WERE NO CHRISTIANS IN MECCA DURING THE LIFETIME OF MUHAMMED IS A BIG LIE.

Both Ibn Ishaq and Al Tabri confirmed the association of Muhammed with Jabr, an ex christian who later converted to Islam. He was the most valuable source of Mohammed's rehashed Jewish, Arabic fables and pseudo-Christian suras. It is often said Muhammed comes up with his "revelation" after meeting with his friend Jabr, and surely the people noticed.

Quran 25:5
And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening."

The connection was so strong and hard to ignore that Mohammed was forced to do some damage control by bringing up yet another sura.

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign - ( this is Jabr), while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

Muhammed's defense was that since Jabr was of "a foreign tongue" (he was not an Arab by birth), he could not have taught Muhammad anything. But it does not matter if Jabr was a non-Arab, he had stayed long in Arabia to learn arabic. Besides how could Jabr be a close friend of Muhammad (if he did not understand Arabic) since Muhammad did not understand any other language?

Guy, it's not because I'm a christian that I'm saying the Quran is not from God. Even if I'm a Muslim, there's no way I would ever accept that the Quran was dictated by God. The evidence is just too glaring.

honesttalk21:
Do you have verifiable proof Waraqah ibn Nawfal read out loud bible stories in the open in then pagan Mecca?

So if Warakah wasnt reading the injil out loud, how did Khadijah know he's the right person that could help Muhammed explain his revelation. What prompted Khadijah to take Muhammed to Waraka if she had no idea of the content of the injil, how it was related to Muhammed's encounter and how Waraka can be of invaluable help.
How did Kadijah know all these if Waraka was'nt reading the injil loud.

How did the people know God was helping him to translate the injil to arabic if he wasn't telling people what he was doing, or is Aisha lying.

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqah bin Naufil bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Arabic letters. He would write from the Gospel in Arabic as much as God wished him to write.

Waraka was a unitarian christian, he was eager to teach Muhammed how to become a prophet, that shows he's someone who is eager share his knowledge of the injil with others.

honesttalk21:
If this were the case wouldn't the Quraysh have directly accused the Prophet pbuh of this?

They definitely accused him of forgery, but u guys said they were liars.

quran 25.5
And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."

16.103
And We certainly know that they say, "It is only a human being who teaches the Prophet." The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, and this Qur'an is [in] a clear Arabic language.

honesttalk21:
He is known to have been a quiet seeker, respected for his knowledge, but not an active preacher. He translated what he was able to of the Torah from Hebrew to Arabic in a society where literacy was poor.

Really, but was eager to teach Muhammed how he could become a Prophet. That sounds like an active preacher to me.

honesttalk21:
The pagan Mecca was hostile to outside religions, how was your alleged public preaching by Waraqah accepted unless you mean there was agreement in what he publicly said and their practices?

Waraqa freely expressed his faith in Mecca and no one was hostile to him. He openly challenged those who persecuted their monotheist slaves and no one attacked him.

Bilal kept insisting, "One, one!" i.e., there was only one God. Waraqah joined, "One, one, by God, Bilal!" He then protested against the abuse, telling Umayyah and his clan: "I swear by God that if you kill him in this way, I will make his tomb a shrine." Umayyah took no notice.

The Qurash were hostile to Muhammed because he was insulting their gods, not because he was preaching monotheism. When Muhammed was actually preaching, they simply ignored him. But he didnt like the fact that he wasn't getting the attention he wanted, so he resorted to abusing their gods which led to his self induced victimisation.

When the Islamic prophet Muhammad initially spread Islam in his hometown, Mecca, he did not meet with any significant opposition from his tribesmen, the Quraysh. Rather, they were indifferent to his activities, as they did not appear to be particularly interested in devotional meetings. This was the case until Muhammad started attacking their beliefs, which caused tensions to arise.

Lewis, Bernard (2002). The Arabs in History. Oxford, New York: Oxford University Press.

TenQ:
Yes, we Christians are not afraid to defend our faith. It's a belief with objective evidence.

I now know the Muslim Nairaland Admin that keeps deleting my posts and putting me under ban and he is no one other than sterrrrope . He knows that I know that his secret is out.

He is not a woman but a man. His admin privileges are very high as he can do and undo with the Nairaland platform. This explains why he was able to remove every post to him.

Every post he feels threatens Islam, he deletes.
Is this not cowardice?

so the cho cho guy is male.

That's taqqiyaa in action

honesttalk21:
ani ►
Lexical Summary
ani: I, me
Original Word: אֲנַי
Part of Speech: pronoun singular, common
Transliteration: aniy
Pronunciation: ah-nee
Phonetic Spelling: (an-ee')
KJV: I, (as for) me, mine, myself, we, X which, X who
NASB: Myself, alone
Word Origin: [contracted from H595 (אָנוֹכִי - myself)]

I'm not even going to waste my time with your mumbo jumbo. Experts and acholars in ancient hebrew language are saying I AM in exodus 3 is eheyeh in Hebrew. Yet u are forcing something else on me, what's your qualification of I may ask?

honesttalk21:
So the question will now return to why Jesus will use a general name for deity when calling to the uniquely named God?

because Jesus spoke Aramaic and the word for God in Aramaic is Elah.
Just like Muhammed spoke Arabic and used the Arabic word for God when calling on his deity.
Arabic Christians have been calling on Allah as God centuries b4 Muhammed was born. They never said it's the personal name of God.

honesttalk21:
Is it proper to associate Eli with Elah in Aramaic?

Eli means my God
Elah means God
Elaha means The God.
They are all Aramaic language

honesttalk21:
Do you now say Yahweh or YHVH is the unique name of God?

Yes, finally we have gotten there. YHWH is the personal name of God. I AM in whatever language U speak.
It denotes aseity and self existence. I AM THAT I AM is a name that defines who God is. He's the source of everything. Nothing comes from outside of him.
Therefore, U cannot use anything to define God. He is telling us we can only define HIM BY HIMSELF. U CANNOT USE OTHER THINGS TO Define GOD BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING OUTSIDE OF GOD THAT CAN BE USED TO DEFINE GOD.
And this goes into divine simplicity which is another topic altogether.

honesttalk21:
In regards to context the Quraysh accused Muhammad pbuh of merely retelling tales of the ancients because they had picked up snippets of old stories from Jews and Christians, rather than having any genuine understanding of the scriptures themselves.

These accusation served as a convenient way for them to brush aside the revelation, similar to how some people today might dismiss something by saying, Oh, that’s just the same old myth recycled.

.

honesttalk21:
Understand the context and who the verses referred to.

Honesttalk21 pls tell us where was Muhammed when Waraka, the Nestorian Christian used to read out loud the GOSPEL STORIES.

Aisha also said: "The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqah bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospel in Arabic.


Muhammed was an illiterate, that doesn't mean he was deaf. Muhammed could hear very well.

How come Muhammed never heard Waraqah ibn Nawfal read out Loud bible stories.

How come Muhammed was ignorant of bible tales when people around him knew them.

honesttalk21:
Thank you for your response.
I didn't include Baal in the names where my response is and wonder why you include it.

Baal simply means lord and it's a synonym for deity in Canaanites language.
Cannanite call their different gods Baal because that's the name for god.
Israelites also borrowed the word and used it when referencing God in ancient times as reflected in their early books.
Gideon is also known as Jerubaʿal, meaning "The Lord Strives", Saul's son Eshbaʿal ("The Lord is Great", and David's son Beeliada ("The Lord Knows". The name Bealiah meaning "Yahweh is Baʿal" combines both names to reflect how it's used. Baal is not the personal name of any deity but simply a derived linguistic name.

Even God confirm this when he told Jews not to call him Baal anymore but husband.

Amos 2.16
“And in that day, declares the Lord, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’

honesttalk21:
In any case Jesus by the Bible said Eli; guess by your view this is wrong.

Aramaic name for deity is Elah. It's not a personal name. Elaha can be used for any deity. Jesus made it clear the name of his Father is I AM.
Jesus spoke Aramaic and used the common term for God in the language - Elah. That is not the personal name for God.

honesttalk21:
The Hebrew for I am that I am אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה or I am אני; Ani, and its pronunciation is distinct from the Tetragrammaton YHVH (יהוה)

I AM means ehyeh in Hebrew which sounds like YHWH when pronounced. Ani is a figment of your own imagination.

If Allah is a continuity of similar sounding Semitic words Elohim, Elah, EL, Baal; it shows Allah is a derived name which simply means god.

So u have not answered my question. What is the name of your God before even the first language was created.

I think it's unfair that Sterope's post were all deleted. I will appreciate if the mods can undelete her posts.

Let it be known we Christians are not afraid to defend our faith. It's a belief with objective evidence.

Sterope:
Did the Prophet copy the Bible?

To say the Prophet copied is the laziest argument ever.

The Qur’an’s writing is VERY DIFFERENT FROM the Bible. Few people were even scholars in his time, yet the Qur’an contains things far beyond the scope of the Bible. Access to such knowledge would have placed the Prophet at the very top of the educated elite of the world and they were very few people in that sphere and if he had copied, people would have called him out during his life and after. Do you really think the past was like today, where information is at your fingertips? . For such beautiful scholarship as the Qur'an, there should have been other works before or during his supposed scholarship with the other educated men of his time in Rome, Syria? Where are they sir?
history.

It's very easy to know people that don't read their Quran but become Muslims just for apologetic sake.

This one here said very few people in Muhammed's time had knowledge of previous scriptures...

Yet the Quran said the knowledge of the scriptures was quite common amongst Muhammed contemporary.

The people of Mecca told Muhammed they were quite familiar with stories from his so called revelation.
They told him they are tales of the ancient, he was merely repeating familiar ancient stories and they could also do likewise.

Quran 8.31
And when Our Verses (of the Quran) are recited to them, they say: "We have heard this before (the Quran); if we wish we can say the like of this. This is nothing but the tales of the ancients."

Qur’an 25:5 – “They say, ‘These are tales of the ancients which he has had written down, and they are dictated to him morning and evening.’”

Qur’an 23:83 – “We and our fathers have already been promised this before; these are nothing but tales of the ancients.”

Qur’an 27:68 – “Indeed, this has been promised to us and to our forefathers before; these are nothing but tales of the ancients.”

So the question is how come everyone around Muhammed knew the stories in the bible but ONLY Bro Muhammed was too illiterate to have heard this stories.

How come other illiterates in Muhammed's time were familiar with bible stories but you people keep saying Muhammed never heard of this stories until Bro Jubril appeared on the cave.

Illiterate means u can't read or write, not that u can't hear. Muhammed could hear, he wasn't deaf.
So how come Muhammed had to wait for Bro Jubril in the cave to hear about bible stories.

Where was Muhammad when others around him were hearing about bible stories.

And when u realise Muhammed had an uncle called Waraka, a Unitarian Christian WHO USE TO READ THE INJIL OUT LOUD AND EVEN WAS TRANSLATING THE INJIL INTO ARABIC, that should tell u something isn't right.

Aisha also said: "The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqah bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospel in Arabic.

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqah bin Naufil bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Arabic letters. He would write from the Gospel in Arabic as much as God wished him to write.

Madam Sterope, where was Muhammed when Waraka, the Nestorian Christian used to read out loud the GOSPEL STORIES.

Madam Sterope solve the islamic dilemma.

honesttalk21:
This is just natural since Arabic is a later Semitic language.

You asked what God’s name was before Arabic. Isn't this clear to you?

In Hebrew it was El, Eloah, Elohim (Genesis 1:1).
Aramaic/Syriac (the language of Jesus); Alaha. In Akkadian, Ilu is used for the supreme God.

Allah is simply the Arabic continuation of this ancient Semitic root (ʾ-L). That’s why even Arab Christians today still pray to Allah.

Note that the same root name (El, Elohim) is used in the Bible both for the true God and for false gods (Exodus 20:3, Psalm 82:1). So if you argue that Allah is invalid because pre-Islamic Arabs also misused the word, then by your own logic, Elohim is invalid too since pagans used it for Baal and other idols.

The reality is that the name predates pagan corruption. Arabs preserved it as Allah, Hebrews as El/Eloah, Aramaeans as Alaha. Islam restores it to its pure monotheistic meaning.

The problem is El, Elohim or Baal or Alaha is not the name of God. They are the linguistic word for god I'm their respective languages.
Elohim can be used for any deity, Baal is the name for deity in cannanite language.

The personal name of God is I AM THAT I AM. IN ANY LANGUAGE U SPEAK, THE NAME OF GOD IS I AM.
IN HEBREW, I AM SOUNDS LIKE YHWH.

NOW TELL US, WHAT IS THE PERSONAL NAME OF YOUR GOD. what is the name of Allah b4 the Arabic language came into existence.

Sterope:
You are one of those ones that doesn't know meaning of Allah. Which is a good pointer that you know nothing

Even AI and a simple Google search knows. It was a mistake to copy you.

Why is the name of your God derived from a created language.

What was his name b4 the Arabic language was created.

Arabic language is an off shoot of pro Semitic languages derived around 1500 BC.

What is the name of your God b4 people started speaking the Arabic language.

Since U are sounding intelligent, maybe

That girl called sterope should stop spamming this thread with emotional rantings.

This thread is for intellectual structured debates not a place to relieve yourself of your personal conflicting battles.

Stick to a topic and let's analyse it rather than jumping from pillar to post.

Ohyoudidnt:
I am not privy to this kindly share

Pre islamic Arabs call samaria al- samirah

Pre islamic Arabs call Samaritans al Samiri.

Both are transliteration from Syriac Christians Aramaic.

Now why would Allah use al Samiri as the person who built the golden calf when he knew people would confuse him with the Samaritan people.

Madam court is not social media where feminine sentiment sway judgement.
U stood in front of the judge in court but couldn't explain your situation convincingly. The judge didn't buy your emotional story and rightfully fined U.

Did U even tell the court all these story U gave us here? Since U could afford to pay the fine easily, U should be able to afford a good lawyer, did U hire one? Or U went to court thinking because U are woman, the court will judge the case using social media criteria.

Next time do better. Nobody is saying U should go and meet an unknown guy but don't be greedy, learn to respect your dignity as a woman by being honest right from the start.

And it's that ibom air girl Emerson am waiting to carry her own case to court since she thinks the whole social media is behind her.
He go shock her and her fans the way she go collect for court.

People thinking adjudication of cases in court is like on social media.

Ohyoudidnt:
No.
The Qur’an never mentions the Samaritans . It only mentions al-Samiri, an individual deceiver at the time of Musa (Moses) (Qur'an 20:85–97).

Prophet Muhammad pbuh only mentioned what was revealed to him.

what do Pre Islamic Arabs call samaritans?

Ohyoudidnt:
It more likely is irrelevant responding to your fixations.

The Qur’an speaks of al-Samiri, a deceiver in Musa’s (Moses) time.

Yes the Samaritans as a sect came much later, so they are unrelated.

The Prophet pbuh commanded truthfulness and warned against lying.

Correcting a misunderstanding is not making excuses, but fulfilling the command of Allah to speak justly and truthfully.

Did the Quran know the Samaritans came much letter?
Did Muhammed know there were no Samaritans during the time of Moses

Ohyoudidnt:
No, it seems like you're mixing things up a bit. The Qur’an didn’t repeat the mistakes of the Torah; it actually corrected them. Aaron wasn’t the one at fault; it was al-Samiri. That’s some serious quality control.

And to clarify, al-Samiri doesn’t automatically mean Samaritan. Tafsir existed long before Western critics offered alternatives.It could come from a clan called Samirah, or it might be derived from the root s-m-r, meaning watchman. That’s solid evidence, not just a guess.

On another note, the two Philistines argument is really just midrash gymnastics with no archaeological support. If you can twist Genesis with rabbinic rewrites, don’t be surprised when Muslims interpret al-Samiri with a bit more linguistic nuance.

The Philistines in the Bible are a dead-end anachronism. In obvious contrast, the Qur’an’s Samiri presents a mystery with several valid interpretations. That’s a significant difference.

The Bible’s Philistines are a proven historical error, the Qur’an’s Samiri is an open linguistic puzzle. Know the difference before crying‘blunder.

So in summary this is your response.
U admit the word as samiri means samaritan in arabic language, but insist the as samiri in the Quran is not the same as the samaritan.
u believe the as samiri mentioned in the Quran mean something else but u have no idea what it could be.
u not sure if the as samiri is the name of a person, place, land or people. u dont know and u have no idea how to guess.
so u summarised the samiri as a mystery and a linguistic puzzle.

Interesting.

Ohyoudidnt by now u know the truth. Quran couldnt have been written by God, its impossible for God to have written that book.
Personally, I believe 99% of educated Muslims know within them that Allah didn't dictate the Quran, they are just too afraid, embarrased or ashamed to admit it.